Miraculous is not really my style. I grew up with Code Lyoko and when I started watching Miraculous I noticed the similarities in an instant. If they existed in the same universe, I wouldn't be surprised at all. It would finally bring Code Lyoko back after all these years.
Yeah, I think that Code Lyoko walked the fine line between plot and filler. You even had tiny things like XANA’s Kiss both introducing polymorphic specters and showing Aelita at the Hermitage, continuing to foreshadow her true origins as a human. Season 3 had a real ticking time bomb element as the sectors were being deleted one by one along with the threat of the core’s destruction. All the while, we see William getting involved in the action and eventually joining. It all converges in “Final Round” where Lyoko is destroyed by their new recruit thanks to XANA. Hell, William being a consistent threat on the field in Season 4 was something I loved, especially with how his human mind helped him be a cut above the mindless monsters. I feel Lila being a frequent clunky of Hawk Moth would mix it up with the Akuma attacks. Mind you, having her appear every now and then can make for good surprises but that can border on coming out of nowhere.
Couldn't have said it better when it comes to Lyoko. After Volpina I was so hoping Lila would more or less become the William but didn't really get that. But now she's getting more involved so here's hoping.
@@LyokoGem Well, I feel that William was great as XANA's enforcer but could've been shown as a Lyoko Warrior during Season 3. Like "The Secret" ends with him going to Lyoko to prevent a possessed Aelita from deleting the Ice Sector. A mid-season twist like that would lead us to get use to him as a part of the group before "Final Round" makes us go, "Oh... crap, that's... not suppose to happen..." This seems like something going on with Chloe based on what I heard but I won't spoil anything for those not in the know.
If it helps, a friend pointed it out to me and I have never forgotten. It's flipped and has the top spoke removed. But otherwise, it's a stylized Eye of XANA.
I'd settle for better animation and characters that don't act incessantly childish. Code Lyoko and Miraculous characters are the same age (13-14), but the Lyoko warriors act how people with the fate of the world on their shoulders realistically should. Also, the villain is cartoonishly corny version of Mr. Freeze, whereas Skynet/XANA's biggest joke was the giant murderous teddy bear.
I think you made a lot of good points on this. That said, I think there are other things that ML could adapt or learn from CL. * Season 1 of CL worked because it had compelling character writing, despite its episodic nature. While ML had character writing in its first season, it was a lot weaker. * CL is VERY noteworthy for its art style which blended CGI with cel animation in a deliberately jarring way. This made the show stand out. ML, in contrast, has a far more consistent animation style, and borrows a lot of its cinematography from modern action movies, in particular with the "michael bay have as much motion in-frame as possible to make it look dynamic" approach. The result is that ML looks a lot blander. * CL had a darker yet non-muted color palate for its 2D scenes and used more varied colors for 3D. ML uses a more consistent approach with colors, so the result is less eye-catching. Vegas In Space and The Wizard Of Oz prototyped this approach by toggling between color and B&W. I'm not saying that ML needs to go full-My-Life-As-A-Teenage-Robot and have no color consistency when possible, but it could use some variety. * ML started out with a smaller set of protagonists than CL did. This gave CL an advantage in that different episodes could focus on different people and we didn't get sick of them by the time the season was over. * ML could also learn from what CL did wrong in addition to what it did right. CL's first season had only a few plot episodes. CL's second season had basically 2 blobs of plot-heavy episodes with a massive amount of filler between them. They had speed-of-plot whiplash. Seasons 3 and 4, in contrast, has a consistent plot. ML could have avoided this problem. ML could have also learned that romantic tension can only be held onto for so long without being obnoxious.
Code Lyoko had a story that evolved with its characters. We saw the characters grow as time passed and they continued to fight Xana (aside from Ulrich and Yumi 😂). The character traits were mostly consistent and even when they went to Lyoko, we saw their personalities didn't completely change that it was confusing. Miraculous has every episode be the exact same and characters don't change or evolve. Every new episode is a reset. I have the show a shot a few months ago and got bored of it quickly. It just couldn't hold my attention. The biggest changes were the need heroes and the elemental upgrades. Truthfully, I wouldn't want my little siblings you watch that show and be influenced by it because I don't want them to act as badly as the characters in there. I saw the PV for the show and it looked okay. I feel like the only reason people notice the show is because of the 3D animation. If it stuck to an anime look, the show might not have lasted long
The opening of this video alone sums up the relationship between these 2 shows perfectly. Love Code Lyoko, it's one of my favorite childhood shows ever.
Am i the only one who liked seeing what real world issues could arise from Jeremie and his friends messing with the supercomputer? Odd becoming a dog boy because he tried to bring Kiwi into lyoko with him, Jeremie turning Aelita invisible, Odd being cloned, Ulrich turned into a spectre and possessing people? I wish that we could have seen what other stuff the supercomputer couldve done to our heroes in reality. Especially if it could cause age regression. We all know it could've been an Ulrich centric episode, if it did exist. Especially since its been established he's got some daddy issues, not that i blame him. If he did get an episode where his immaturity and jealousy wound up turning him into a little kid i can see him reflecting on his behavior and changing his attitude. Ulrich was my favorite character as a kid as i just wanted to give him a hug. And adopt him as my big brother at the time
I think it's biggest flaw is that it doesn't make good use of any of its filler. You could cut half of the episodes in season 1 from production entirely and not be missing anything important from the main plot or characters. Good filler has character moments that either develop a character, trigger a character arc, or set-up future development. Good filler can also set-up plot points, create foreshadowing, and establish themes to be explored later. Miraculous and its filler doesn't really do any of this. Another big issue is that Hawk Moth has had the same goal for 3 seasons now. It's stale by this point and especially with the monster of the week formula on top of it. I also think it was too big of a goal to give him right off the bat. Going after the Miraculouses right out of the gate is too big because of Hawk Moth's intent and the consequences of bringing both of them together. The monster of the week thing only worked for Code Lyoko so well because someone always had a different goal to achieve over the course of each season. Like for season 1, it was getting Aelita to Earth so that they could shut down the supercomputer and for season 2 it was Xana attempting to escape the supercomputer. Hawk Moth's first and only goal is too big to be compelling after several seasons of failure and no progress. It feels end game and that's bad to have at the start of season 1 in a series as long and ongoing as Miraculous is intended to be.
This is incredibly true as well. A lot of the filler, even in season 3 seems aimless and doesn't really do a lot with its filler to carry the show along. As I had mentioned, in the few cases that it does do this these developments are usually forgotten almost instantly to keep the status quo. And honestly and truly speaking, I never thought about how Hawkmoth's goal played into things but you're definitely right about that. In addition to all of this, Hawkmoth no longer truly presents himself as a threatening villain because of this. Failing every single time for the one goal you want to accomplish does do this. And you make a good point about the monster of the week formula in CL and I do talk about this a little bit at around the 6:00 mark.
Like on that note, there's a S1 CL filler episode called Zero Gravity Zone where we learn about Ulrich's dad with how it affects him throughout the episode about making the choice between getting his father's approval and his job to save the world. We also have it reminded to us that Ulrich's been getting bad grades consistently. Thus, when Mr. Stern shows up in the Season 3 Finale, an already tense episode get more tension as Ulrich is prevented to go to Lyoko as well as fear for him because of his father. And it was able to accomplish this because the writers set it up two seasons ago. This is then followed up on in Distant Memory, a S4 episode, where we use Mr. Stern and his relationship to his son as juxtaposition to the relationship between Mr. Belpois and Jeremie that the writers cut back and forth from.
code lyoko: Computer program that can make multiples attack at the same time, don't need to rest, can learn from mistakes (Impossible to defeat in reality) Hawkmoth: Human that can make people have super power, don't need to wait until next attack, is adult (defeated because plot)
I agree with a few of the other comments I've seen on here - that ML really could've learned not only from CL's positive reception, but also from it's own mistakes. It feels like the show is too afraid to transition into something beyond what was established in the first season. However, the evolution of themes in a story are natural, and stifling them only makes the story feel forced and unrealistic. By the end of shows like CL, you could see just how much the characters grew. Though many complain about the various times side characters underwent change only for everything to be reset, they all seem to miss that this change still impacted the main cast and changes the way they act around certain characters. ML doesn't really have anything like that. They have fewer main characters, which in theory should tighten up their story, but they water it down with so many secondary characters that should really be side characters that this "tightness," for lack of a better term, is lost. Think about some of the best character-driven stories you know. Are there a large amount of ultimately unimportant side characters, all with their own continuities and plots unfolding and interweaving with the plot? In my experience, I can give a firm no. My favorite example of a character-driven story is the visual novel/anime Steins;Gate. SG has about nine members in the main cast along with a few secondary characters, and that's it. Because there are less characters the story feels the need to focus on, the resulting plot is streamlined and consistently engaging from start to finish. SG also has the added benefit of a story that justifies approaching certain characters at specific junctures in the story without feeling especially linear, while leaving the others on the backburner to simmer and shine through now and then. Another major point that I feel ML could've learned from material like SG is to push into extremism. Too far and you get a wacky cartoon character, but just enough and you get an interesting character that is still believable. SG's protagonist, Okabe, is one such example. He's weird, zany and constantly going on about conspiracies and secret organizations for the first hour or two of gameplay, but he's still portrayed as wholly human and relatable. The result is an interesting, well-defined and memorable character that can be used to push the plot forward in many interesting and oftentimes unconventional ways. To be frank, Marinette is anything but an Okabe. I feel that Adrien, especially after the events of the episode Chat Blanc, has potential to be such a character. Sadly, the show doesn't seem at all interested in giving him consistent spotlight despite him being one of the two main characters. If anything, it's ML's stubborn reliance on marketability and retaining their audience age range that's truly holding it back, as both of these issues I've outlined can be traced back to that. Characters aren't allowed to develop too much because eventually there'd be nothing left for them to learn, and then their future options for the franchise grow narrower. Developing the characters would also mean losing their original identities, which can be seen as akin to losing one's branding. The same can be said about the story; it's set up to delve into a much darker tone, but because they seem to desperately want to keep their demographic despite the fact that fans are growing up, it's stuck in this uncomfortable limbo of disappointment and wasted potential. It's honestly just sad at this point.
I'd like to add to my point on characters with more extreme personalities. Miu from the Danganronpa series is another great example. The developers specifically created her with the intention of making her annoying and hate-able. Instead, they unintentionally crafted one of the funniest and most interesting characters in the game, while also making her pretty easy to empathize with on a basic level. This was accomplished because of just how outlandish she is and what ways she's outlandish in. It's heavily implied that her reliance on dirty jokes and foul language is a means by which she protects herself, which makes her relatable to those who've developed similar mechanisms in trying to deal with insecurities. Her humor makes her universally appealing to people who find her increasingly strange antics funny as well, and she becomes a sort of bumbling idiot that you love to watch fumbling around hopelessly. These characters work when written well, but too many stories find them out of their comfort range unfortunately.
I grew up with code lyoko as a baby and I never hated it for a single second it engaged me and sure I never understood every single thing but I understood that it was for older kids and everything and I still manage to get even more engaged when I'm older but miraculous has awesome ideas and concepts but only spends an episode on them and just introduces more and doesn't even get us invested in new heroes I really like this show and I hope it learns from Cl
Glad I'm not the only who noticed the similarities between the two shows Xana possesses people just like Hawkmoth Akumatizes them Return to the past resets everything back to normal just like miraculous ladybug Regular teenage kids turn into heroes (miraculous heroes and lyoko warriors) Chloe and Cissy are the typical mean girl Both shows take place in France and are made by French animators
The difference between these shows I grew up with Code Lyoko on Cartoon Network I used to watch this as a kid Miraculous Ladybug I watch this as a adult
Anyone else want Kwantic Universe Code Lyoko fanart? I swear to Lyoko, i would love to see how the Lyoko Warriors would look like in the Miraculous CGI artstyle both in their civilian forms and Lyoko Formes. I would also settle for Steven Universe, Pretty Cure, and Totally Spies characters in the Miraculous Style.
Anyone else wanna crossover between Code Lyoko and Miraculous? Imagine the double evilizing issues with XANA and the Akumas? I can imagine Jeremie being Akumatized and also being XANAfied at the same time which could either inadvertedly effect Hawkmoth or causing him to be unable to control Jeremie or his akuma. Also if Jeremie is possessed by an akuma it could weaken his resistance to XANA which given how little he goes to Lyoko anyway would be a major problem his friends would need to figure out. Plus i think they could rework one of the greatest Lyoko mysteries ever, Jeremie's Lyoko Form, into his akumatized form. Plus i think an akumatized Jeremie Belpois would be a surprising challenge not just for Ladybug and Chat Noir but also his friends who have to try to weaken him from Lyoko. He could be able to teleport between Lyoko and the real world, Command XANA's Monsters similar to William, and even summon them in reality. Plus since he created most of the programs his friends used in Lyoko (the vehicles, the new outfits, the virtualizations period) he could know their every move and how to avoid it or even disable the programs severely weakening them in the process. Also the fact the Kadic Academy and Fransois Du'Pont High School are both canonically located in fictional versions of Paris, France it wouldn't be too hard to create a scenario where the heroes would meet realistically. Sporting events, science fairs, heck i even heard of stories where student representatives from different schools have get togethers to discuss possible school events or extra curricular activities they want to do that the other school doesnt support anymore so they negotiate donating the equipment to each other. I swear to Tikki why the heck can't reality imitate art? Would certainly solve a lot of the world's problems
@@judgelee5741 oh and they could repurpose the og Ladybug theme from the anime music video OVA specifically for the crossover since Noam Kaniel sang it and the Code Lyoko theme song. Maybe they could make a remix with the two themes (Similar to the iCarly and Victorious crossover song "Leave it All to Shine"). Seriously there is so much that could go right with this crossover concept that I might just petition it and pitch the idea to Jeremy Zag and Thomas Astruc for them to consider and possibly negotiate with the creators of Code Lyoko, Since from what i dug up Moonscoop Entertainment went bankrupt so most of their properties and staff could be ripe for the picking
for some reason when this series first started i would have like to have seen a crossover between miraculous and cardcaptor sakura of all shows. like have sakura and syaoran visit France for one day and get caught up in the akuma matters during their stay. i don't even remember why this came into my head besides maybe just the magical girl angle. did sakura ever had any fancy in fashion the only thing that comes to mind is her cousin who makes her lots of costumes for her escapades in recovering clow cards.
@@lunerblade13 no but the HeartCatch Pretty Cure team definitely had an interest in fashion, and they even went to Paris for their solo film. Yet another awesome show/franchise that could be incredible to see animated in the CG Miraculous style. Btw if the Miraculous world specials ever lead them to Japan i will be thoroughly disappointed if i do not see at least civillian cameos from 3 pretty cure teams minimum. Heartcatch and KiraKira definately deserve a shoutout given they have connections to Paris. And then maybe the OG to round it out
Xana possession is scary as fuck Xana is hell bent on killing them and my favorite episode " Ghost Channel " where Xana Speaks!!! For the first time and literally says that he is going to kill them the way Xana messes with how Jeremy looks making him look like a fucking Demon!! The key being a better final episode for season 2 the pain seeing the interface dark red saying that Aelita's memory being gone seeing the core get destroyed by William in season 3 after them accepting him as part of the team and seeing Aelita try to protect France hopper from getting kill by Xana as he gives his life to destroy Xana for good they won yes... but they lost France hopper Aelita lost the only thing left from her past to say Code lyoko was the goat for me would be an understatement one last point A world without danger slaps
i like Miraculous it remindeds me of an old show an comic i still love to this day w.i.t.c.h. i belive some who worked on w.i.t.c.h. the tv show or comic works on Miraculous but i notice Miraculous has the same issuse w.i.t.c.h. started to have in its last 2 or 3 arcs after they got the power upgreade it started to do monster of the week droped old plots that made people love it and character diapered like even close family member to the girls friends and people who were a big part of the story and there was foreshadowing for biger events to come that just got droped i think that up sets me most about marinette she's not getting better as a charater she's getting woser and i all rady now noot to watch this show for the ship caz we were all ready told that marinette and adrin end up together but to be real i wish that wasn't the case caz unless there going to show them both grow and get real development i don't think they should date or maybe they will date and brack up and just stay friends
W.i.t.c.h. was so good! I wish it kept going. They definitely had the material too. The comics went on for *11 story arcs!* I also preferred the pacing of the comics as well. That being said Disney really should have lost that lawsuit. Both the show and the comics suffered from it.
Dude why do think i love miraculous so much. Yes it should take nods from Code Lyoko, I want next gen miraculers to get into Code Lyoko. PS: Holy Shit i forgot about that easter egg on nino's shirt.
That's true. But we have yet to see if these pieces of character development will hold or if it'll be just like Season 2 since it's only been a few episodes.
For some reason I think that aelita, n Odd will get along real well with Felix. Also for a fact that I deadass wrote a whole fanfic surrounding this.... IDK why but I'm just kinda obsessed with this idea
Marionette/ Ladybug is Aelita Adrien/Cat Noir is Odd Gabriel/ Hawkmoth is Xana Master Fu is Franz Hopper Chloe is Sisi Lila is William? Ulrich, Yumi and Jeremi are.....
@@x.sapphireanimelover.x I chose Lila for William because he was brainwashed by Xana and Lila was working with Hawkmoth. Also they were both love rivals. But now I'm thinking he might be closer to kagami (I'm a horrible speller) or maybe Luka. Definitely not Mayura. But good points on Ulrich and Yumi being Carapace and Rena Rouge
Honestly, ML has a great concept it just seems that it throws alot of unnecessary episodes that lead to nothing and barely gives us any more lore other than negative emotions=Akumas. And by the time ML finally gets the main plot going i just lose interest.
Can anyone explain to me how miraculous ladybug could learn from xiolin showdown ? Xiolin showdowns formula was looking for a new power up device weekly. There was y a continuous villian they had to defeat like hawk moth. I guess you could say chase young but idk him. I’m just confused as to how miraculous ladybug could learn from xiolin showdown
Code Lyoko love woo Yeah show just ignored its qwami form changes Needs eps where Adrien gets to actually get the W not sidelined for Mari genius again
According the the original show, Aelita is the one who can deactivate the towers, Evolution was... More or less because the fans wanted the show to come back, and even then, Evolution felt more of a fan-work to me than an actual reboot. Yeah the rest of them got the power in Evolution, but that was only through those "codes" they somehow gained for no reason except for storyline. And to be honest, in my opinion, not many liked Evolution, so it isn't fully received and doesn't count. What Lyoko Gem was getting at was the main series, the original series, Seasons 1-4.
@@rafeminsi I never liked that. I believe Aelita should be the only one to be able to deactivate a tower, if the other Lyoko warriors can do it too then that basically lowers Aelita’s importance on the team
Code Lyoko needs its lore back.
I hate Evolution so much
Miraculous is not really my style. I grew up with Code Lyoko and when I started watching Miraculous I noticed the similarities in an instant. If they existed in the same universe, I wouldn't be surprised at all. It would finally bring Code Lyoko back after all these years.
@@judgelee5741 This is highly unlikely, ml is a magic based series while cl was all tech, the contrast would be jarring
Yeah, I think that Code Lyoko walked the fine line between plot and filler. You even had tiny things like XANA’s Kiss both introducing polymorphic specters and showing Aelita at the Hermitage, continuing to foreshadow her true origins as a human.
Season 3 had a real ticking time bomb element as the sectors were being deleted one by one along with the threat of the core’s destruction. All the while, we see William getting involved in the action and eventually joining. It all converges in “Final Round” where Lyoko is destroyed by their new recruit thanks to XANA.
Hell, William being a consistent threat on the field in Season 4 was something I loved, especially with how his human mind helped him be a cut above the mindless monsters. I feel Lila being a frequent clunky of Hawk Moth would mix it up with the Akuma attacks. Mind you, having her appear every now and then can make for good surprises but that can border on coming out of nowhere.
Couldn't have said it better when it comes to Lyoko.
After Volpina I was so hoping Lila would more or less become the William but didn't really get that.
But now she's getting more involved so here's hoping.
@@LyokoGem Well, I feel that William was great as XANA's enforcer but could've been shown as a Lyoko Warrior during Season 3. Like "The Secret" ends with him going to Lyoko to prevent a possessed Aelita from deleting the Ice Sector.
A mid-season twist like that would lead us to get use to him as a part of the group before "Final Round" makes us go, "Oh... crap, that's... not suppose to happen..."
This seems like something going on with Chloe based on what I heard but I won't spoil anything for those not in the know.
Seeing William appear every time to fight always got me excited and hiding under the blankets. His theme gives me chills every time
It's the reason I love "Code Lyoko".
How did i NOT REALIZE NINO SHIRT HAS X.A.N.A. SYMBOL
If it helps, a friend pointed it out to me and I have never forgotten.
It's flipped and has the top spoke removed.
But otherwise, it's a stylized Eye of XANA.
I've been addicted to CL since so long and never noticed that detail on Nino's shirt. Actually, I discovered ML way later my addition shut down.
I'd settle for better animation and characters that don't act incessantly childish. Code Lyoko and Miraculous characters are the same age (13-14), but the Lyoko warriors act how people with the fate of the world on their shoulders realistically should. Also, the villain is cartoonishly corny version of Mr. Freeze, whereas Skynet/XANA's biggest joke was the giant murderous teddy bear.
No that was the giant food monster
Hilariously enough, Thomas Astruc was actually the one who storyboarded the Teddy bear episode
I think you made a lot of good points on this. That said, I think there are other things that ML could adapt or learn from CL.
* Season 1 of CL worked because it had compelling character writing, despite its episodic nature. While ML had character writing in its first season, it was a lot weaker.
* CL is VERY noteworthy for its art style which blended CGI with cel animation in a deliberately jarring way. This made the show stand out. ML, in contrast, has a far more consistent animation style, and borrows a lot of its cinematography from modern action movies, in particular with the "michael bay have as much motion in-frame as possible to make it look dynamic" approach. The result is that ML looks a lot blander.
* CL had a darker yet non-muted color palate for its 2D scenes and used more varied colors for 3D. ML uses a more consistent approach with colors, so the result is less eye-catching. Vegas In Space and The Wizard Of Oz prototyped this approach by toggling between color and B&W. I'm not saying that ML needs to go full-My-Life-As-A-Teenage-Robot and have no color consistency when possible, but it could use some variety.
* ML started out with a smaller set of protagonists than CL did. This gave CL an advantage in that different episodes could focus on different people and we didn't get sick of them by the time the season was over.
* ML could also learn from what CL did wrong in addition to what it did right. CL's first season had only a few plot episodes. CL's second season had basically 2 blobs of plot-heavy episodes with a massive amount of filler between them. They had speed-of-plot whiplash. Seasons 3 and 4, in contrast, has a consistent plot. ML could have avoided this problem. ML could have also learned that romantic tension can only be held onto for so long without being obnoxious.
Fan fact: Thomas astroc the creator of miraculous worked as a writer on code lyoko before move on to make his own cartoon ^^
Yeah, I was gonna say the same. I can't blame Thomas Astruc for doing it. Code Lyoko is a great show.
I forget which episode I think the episode was called something wave idk
Tidal wave* or an episode in the 50s that's all I can say for sure
And a storyboard artist...
And yet he couldn't make a good show.. :D
At least Code Lyoko gave a (good) reasoning for side characters to lose development. In Miraculous, even the main ones lose it
Code Lyoko had a story that evolved with its characters. We saw the characters grow as time passed and they continued to fight Xana (aside from Ulrich and Yumi 😂). The character traits were mostly consistent and even when they went to Lyoko, we saw their personalities didn't completely change that it was confusing.
Miraculous has every episode be the exact same and characters don't change or evolve. Every new episode is a reset. I have the show a shot a few months ago and got bored of it quickly. It just couldn't hold my attention. The biggest changes were the need heroes and the elemental upgrades. Truthfully, I wouldn't want my little siblings you watch that show and be influenced by it because I don't want them to act as badly as the characters in there. I saw the PV for the show and it looked okay. I feel like the only reason people notice the show is because of the 3D animation. If it stuck to an anime look, the show might not have lasted long
A well-thought-out analysis of Miraculous Ladybug from the perspective of a fellow Code Lyoko fan? Why am I only seeing this now?
I know youtube algorithm, GET IT TOGETHER!
The opening of this video alone sums up the relationship between these 2 shows perfectly. Love Code Lyoko, it's one of my favorite childhood shows ever.
Am i the only one who liked seeing what real world issues could arise from Jeremie and his friends messing with the supercomputer? Odd becoming a dog boy because he tried to bring Kiwi into lyoko with him, Jeremie turning Aelita invisible, Odd being cloned, Ulrich turned into a spectre and possessing people? I wish that we could have seen what other stuff the supercomputer couldve done to our heroes in reality. Especially if it could cause age regression. We all know it could've been an Ulrich centric episode, if it did exist. Especially since its been established he's got some daddy issues, not that i blame him. If he did get an episode where his immaturity and jealousy wound up turning him into a little kid i can see him reflecting on his behavior and changing his attitude. Ulrich was my favorite character as a kid as i just wanted to give him a hug. And adopt him as my big brother at the time
I think it's biggest flaw is that it doesn't make good use of any of its filler. You could cut half of the episodes in season 1 from production entirely and not be missing anything important from the main plot or characters. Good filler has character moments that either develop a character, trigger a character arc, or set-up future development. Good filler can also set-up plot points, create foreshadowing, and establish themes to be explored later. Miraculous and its filler doesn't really do any of this.
Another big issue is that Hawk Moth has had the same goal for 3 seasons now. It's stale by this point and especially with the monster of the week formula on top of it. I also think it was too big of a goal to give him right off the bat. Going after the Miraculouses right out of the gate is too big because of Hawk Moth's intent and the consequences of bringing both of them together.
The monster of the week thing only worked for Code Lyoko so well because someone always had a different goal to achieve over the course of each season. Like for season 1, it was getting Aelita to Earth so that they could shut down the supercomputer and for season 2 it was Xana attempting to escape the supercomputer. Hawk Moth's first and only goal is too big to be compelling after several seasons of failure and no progress. It feels end game and that's bad to have at the start of season 1 in a series as long and ongoing as Miraculous is intended to be.
This is incredibly true as well. A lot of the filler, even in season 3 seems aimless and doesn't really do a lot with its filler to carry the show along. As I had mentioned, in the few cases that it does do this these developments are usually forgotten almost instantly to keep the status quo.
And honestly and truly speaking, I never thought about how Hawkmoth's goal played into things but you're definitely right about that. In addition to all of this, Hawkmoth no longer truly presents himself as a threatening villain because of this. Failing every single time for the one goal you want to accomplish does do this.
And you make a good point about the monster of the week formula in CL and I do talk about this a little bit at around the 6:00 mark.
Like on that note, there's a S1 CL filler episode called Zero Gravity Zone where we learn about Ulrich's dad with how it affects him throughout the episode about making the choice between getting his father's approval and his job to save the world. We also have it reminded to us that Ulrich's been getting bad grades consistently. Thus, when Mr. Stern shows up in the Season 3 Finale, an already tense episode get more tension as Ulrich is prevented to go to Lyoko as well as fear for him because of his father. And it was able to accomplish this because the writers set it up two seasons ago. This is then followed up on in Distant Memory, a S4 episode, where we use Mr. Stern and his relationship to his son as juxtaposition to the relationship between Mr. Belpois and Jeremie that the writers cut back and forth from.
@@BigAmericanGirlFanI noticed that too😯👏👏
It's ironic that Miraculous Ladybug has worse pacing and writing than Code Lyoko, which is 10 years older and a show Thomas Astruc used to work on.
code lyoko: Computer program that can make multiples attack at the same time, don't need to rest, can learn from mistakes (Impossible to defeat in reality)
Hawkmoth: Human that can make people have super power, don't need to wait until next attack, is adult (defeated because plot)
I agree with a few of the other comments I've seen on here - that ML really could've learned not only from CL's positive reception, but also from it's own mistakes. It feels like the show is too afraid to transition into something beyond what was established in the first season. However, the evolution of themes in a story are natural, and stifling them only makes the story feel forced and unrealistic.
By the end of shows like CL, you could see just how much the characters grew. Though many complain about the various times side characters underwent change only for everything to be reset, they all seem to miss that this change still impacted the main cast and changes the way they act around certain characters. ML doesn't really have anything like that. They have fewer main characters, which in theory should tighten up their story, but they water it down with so many secondary characters that should really be side characters that this "tightness," for lack of a better term, is lost.
Think about some of the best character-driven stories you know. Are there a large amount of ultimately unimportant side characters, all with their own continuities and plots unfolding and interweaving with the plot? In my experience, I can give a firm no. My favorite example of a character-driven story is the visual novel/anime Steins;Gate. SG has about nine members in the main cast along with a few secondary characters, and that's it.
Because there are less characters the story feels the need to focus on, the resulting plot is streamlined and consistently engaging from start to finish. SG also has the added benefit of a story that justifies approaching certain characters at specific junctures in the story without feeling especially linear, while leaving the others on the backburner to simmer and shine through now and then.
Another major point that I feel ML could've learned from material like SG is to push into extremism. Too far and you get a wacky cartoon character, but just enough and you get an interesting character that is still believable. SG's protagonist, Okabe, is one such example. He's weird, zany and constantly going on about conspiracies and secret organizations for the first hour or two of gameplay, but he's still portrayed as wholly human and relatable.
The result is an interesting, well-defined and memorable character that can be used to push the plot forward in many interesting and oftentimes unconventional ways. To be frank, Marinette is anything but an Okabe. I feel that Adrien, especially after the events of the episode Chat Blanc, has potential to be such a character. Sadly, the show doesn't seem at all interested in giving him consistent spotlight despite him being one of the two main characters.
If anything, it's ML's stubborn reliance on marketability and retaining their audience age range that's truly holding it back, as both of these issues I've outlined can be traced back to that. Characters aren't allowed to develop too much because eventually there'd be nothing left for them to learn, and then their future options for the franchise grow narrower. Developing the characters would also mean losing their original identities, which can be seen as akin to losing one's branding.
The same can be said about the story; it's set up to delve into a much darker tone, but because they seem to desperately want to keep their demographic despite the fact that fans are growing up, it's stuck in this uncomfortable limbo of disappointment and wasted potential. It's honestly just sad at this point.
I'd like to add to my point on characters with more extreme personalities. Miu from the Danganronpa series is another great example. The developers specifically created her with the intention of making her annoying and hate-able. Instead, they unintentionally crafted one of the funniest and most interesting characters in the game, while also making her pretty easy to empathize with on a basic level. This was accomplished because of just how outlandish she is and what ways she's outlandish in. It's heavily implied that her reliance on dirty jokes and foul language is a means by which she protects herself, which makes her relatable to those who've developed similar mechanisms in trying to deal with insecurities. Her humor makes her universally appealing to people who find her increasingly strange antics funny as well, and she becomes a sort of bumbling idiot that you love to watch fumbling around hopelessly. These characters work when written well, but too many stories find them out of their comfort range unfortunately.
I grew up with code lyoko as a baby and I never hated it for a single second it engaged me and sure I never understood every single thing but I understood that it was for older kids and everything and I still manage to get even more engaged when I'm older but miraculous has awesome ideas and concepts but only spends an episode on them and just introduces more and doesn't even get us invested in new heroes I really like this show and I hope it learns from Cl
Glad I'm not the only who noticed the similarities between the two shows
Xana possesses people just like Hawkmoth Akumatizes them
Return to the past resets everything back to normal just like miraculous ladybug
Regular teenage kids turn into heroes (miraculous heroes and lyoko warriors)
Chloe and Cissy are the typical mean girl
Both shows take place in France and are made by French animators
The difference between these shows I grew up with Code Lyoko on Cartoon Network I used to watch this as a kid Miraculous Ladybug I watch this as a adult
Code lyoko is unpredictable compared to ladybug
Anyone else want Kwantic Universe Code Lyoko fanart? I swear to Lyoko, i would love to see how the Lyoko Warriors would look like in the Miraculous CGI artstyle both in their civilian forms and Lyoko Formes. I would also settle for Steven Universe, Pretty Cure, and Totally Spies characters in the Miraculous Style.
Ulrich would be more handsome?
@@DayanaRockStar122 yes yes he would
It's funny because I watched both of these shows on Netflix last year and they both from France
That love square makes Ulumi looks healthy
Honestly, even the love square can't compare to the toxicity that is Ulumi. lol
I agree cause the love square was toxic least Yumi can count and trust Ulrich and not treat him like dirt
Anyone else wanna crossover between Code Lyoko and Miraculous? Imagine the double evilizing issues with XANA and the Akumas? I can imagine Jeremie being Akumatized and also being XANAfied at the same time which could either inadvertedly effect Hawkmoth or causing him to be unable to control Jeremie or his akuma. Also if Jeremie is possessed by an akuma it could weaken his resistance to XANA which given how little he goes to Lyoko anyway would be a major problem his friends would need to figure out. Plus i think they could rework one of the greatest Lyoko mysteries ever, Jeremie's Lyoko Form, into his akumatized form. Plus i think an akumatized Jeremie Belpois would be a surprising challenge not just for Ladybug and Chat Noir but also his friends who have to try to weaken him from Lyoko. He could be able to teleport between Lyoko and the real world, Command XANA's Monsters similar to William, and even summon them in reality. Plus since he created most of the programs his friends used in Lyoko (the vehicles, the new outfits, the virtualizations period) he could know their every move and how to avoid it or even disable the programs severely weakening them in the process.
Also the fact the Kadic Academy and Fransois Du'Pont High School are both canonically located in fictional versions of Paris, France it wouldn't be too hard to create a scenario where the heroes would meet realistically. Sporting events, science fairs, heck i even heard of stories where student representatives from different schools have get togethers to discuss possible school events or extra curricular activities they want to do that the other school doesnt support anymore so they negotiate donating the equipment to each other. I swear to Tikki why the heck can't reality imitate art? Would certainly solve a lot of the world's problems
Also the designs of the code lyoko characters in the Miraculous Ladybug universe. My Tikki it'd be incredible!
I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 shows were in the same universe. I really hope that's the case. Code Lyoko is one of my favorite childhood shows.
@@judgelee5741 oh and they could repurpose the og Ladybug theme from the anime music video OVA specifically for the crossover since Noam Kaniel sang it and the Code Lyoko theme song. Maybe they could make a remix with the two themes (Similar to the iCarly and Victorious crossover song "Leave it All to Shine"). Seriously there is so much that could go right with this crossover concept that I might just petition it and pitch the idea to Jeremy Zag and Thomas Astruc for them to consider and possibly negotiate with the creators of Code Lyoko, Since from what i dug up Moonscoop Entertainment went bankrupt so most of their properties and staff could be ripe for the picking
for some reason when this series first started i would have like to have seen a crossover between miraculous and cardcaptor sakura of all shows. like have sakura and syaoran visit France for one day and get caught up in the akuma matters during their stay. i don't even remember why this came into my head besides maybe just the magical girl angle. did sakura ever had any fancy in fashion the only thing that comes to mind is her cousin who makes her lots of costumes for her escapades in recovering clow cards.
@@lunerblade13 no but the HeartCatch Pretty Cure team definitely had an interest in fashion, and they even went to Paris for their solo film. Yet another awesome show/franchise that could be incredible to see animated in the CG Miraculous style.
Btw if the Miraculous world specials ever lead them to Japan i will be thoroughly disappointed if i do not see at least civillian cameos from 3 pretty cure teams minimum. Heartcatch and KiraKira definately deserve a shoutout given they have connections to Paris. And then maybe the OG to round it out
You're absolutly right..
I loved this video and Code Lyoko. Code Lyoko is everything Miraculous should have been.
Xana possession is scary as fuck Xana is hell bent on killing them and my favorite episode " Ghost Channel " where Xana Speaks!!! For the first time and literally says that he is going to kill them the way Xana messes with how Jeremy looks making him look like a fucking Demon!! The key being a better final episode for season 2 the pain seeing the interface dark red saying that Aelita's memory being gone seeing the core get destroyed by William in season 3 after them accepting him as part of the team and seeing Aelita try to protect France hopper from getting kill by Xana as he gives his life to destroy Xana for good they won yes... but they lost France hopper Aelita lost the only thing left from her past to say Code lyoko was the goat for me would be an understatement one last point
A world without danger slaps
Except for Project Carthage. Unless it was explained in Evolution or the novels I don't think that was ever explained.
i like Miraculous it remindeds me of an old show an comic i still love to this day w.i.t.c.h. i belive some who worked on w.i.t.c.h. the tv show or comic works on Miraculous but i notice Miraculous has the same issuse w.i.t.c.h. started to have in its last 2 or 3 arcs after they got the power upgreade it started to do monster of
the week droped old plots that made people love it and character diapered like even close family member to the girls friends and people who were a big part of the story and there was foreshadowing for biger events to come that just got droped
i think that up sets me most about marinette she's not getting better as a charater she's getting woser and i all rady now noot to watch this show for the ship caz we were all ready told that marinette and adrin end up together
but to be real i wish that wasn't the case caz unless there going to show them both grow and get real development i don't think they should date or maybe they will date and brack up and just stay friends
W.i.t.c.h. was so good! I wish it kept going. They definitely had the material too. The comics went on for *11 story arcs!* I also preferred the pacing of the comics as well. That being said Disney really should have lost that lawsuit. Both the show and the comics suffered from it.
NINO’S SHIRT?!?! I NEVER NOTICED
Haha. Neither did I until a friend pointed it out to me when I watched Season 1.
If not for them, I probably never would've.
Lyoko Gem the video with all the similarities between the two shows sounds like a great idea. Would love to see it
me ethier
Dude why do think i love miraculous so much.
Yes it should take nods from Code Lyoko, I want next gen miraculers to get into Code Lyoko.
PS: Holy Shit i forgot about that easter egg on nino's shirt.
but season 3 is finally doing real character development
That's true.
But we have yet to see if these pieces of character development will hold or if it'll be just like Season 2 since it's only been a few episodes.
@@LyokoGem i just hope the writers used some of these fan comics in the show.
For some reason I think that aelita, n Odd will get along real well with Felix. Also for a fact that I deadass wrote a whole fanfic surrounding this.... IDK why but I'm just kinda obsessed with this idea
I love code lyoko
Marionette/ Ladybug is Aelita
Adrien/Cat Noir is Odd
Gabriel/ Hawkmoth is Xana
Master Fu is Franz Hopper
Chloe is Sisi
Lila is William?
Ulrich, Yumi and Jeremi are.....
Why william got to be lila?
Ulrich could be carapace while yumi is rena rogue
Xana william could be mayura
@@x.sapphireanimelover.x I chose Lila for William because he was brainwashed by Xana and Lila was working with Hawkmoth. Also they were both love rivals. But now I'm thinking he might be closer to kagami (I'm a horrible speller) or maybe Luka. Definitely not Mayura.
But good points on Ulrich and Yumi being Carapace and Rena Rouge
@@slospop1125 no, definitely luka. Definitely! Luka reminds me so much of william.
Honestly, ML has a great concept it just seems that it throws alot of unnecessary episodes that lead to nothing and barely gives us any more lore other than negative emotions=Akumas. And by the time ML finally gets the main plot going i just lose interest.
Can anyone explain to me how miraculous ladybug could learn from xiolin showdown ? Xiolin showdowns formula was looking for a new power up device weekly. There was y a continuous villian they had to defeat like hawk moth. I guess you could say chase young but idk him. I’m just confused as to how miraculous ladybug could learn from xiolin showdown
Man we really really REALLY NEED THIS to be BACK it shows more and the weight of the plot is better than ladybug
whelp there goes that video idea. I do love how they are literally the exact same show
Dude a miraculous ladybug Code Lyoko Comparision video
Both are good but I like code lyoko more
Biiiitchh, I was shocked to learn about nino's shirt
Omg!!! I was just thinking the same a few days ago!!
CUZ OF THE PROBS LYKO IS BETTER THEN LADYBUG
have seen the episode of miraculous? xana is on it!
Lol. I've certainly heard about it.
Haven't watched it yet though since I'm slowly making my way through Season 4.
@@LyokoGem ruclips.net/video/IctMjGk1pK4/видео.html
Wait, what? Are you saying that the Eye of XANA proper is in the show now?
Code Lyoko love woo
Yeah show just ignored its qwami form changes
Needs eps where Adrien gets to actually get the W not sidelined for Mari genius again
What if Code Lyoko meet Miraculous Ladybug?
CodeJack :D maybe we could see that in the future or at least on some fan based show
They both take place France
Sissi has a character arc so much better than Chloé
JFC, why is your voice only coming from the right?
Actually, you are wrong about Aelita. The Lyoko Warriors are the ones capable of deactivating the towers, not just her.
In Evolution.
According the the original show, Aelita is the one who can deactivate the towers, Evolution was... More or less because the fans wanted the show to come back, and even then, Evolution felt more of a fan-work to me than an actual reboot. Yeah the rest of them got the power in Evolution, but that was only through those "codes" they somehow gained for no reason except for storyline. And to be honest, in my opinion, not many liked Evolution, so it isn't fully received and doesn't count. What Lyoko Gem was getting at was the main series, the original series, Seasons 1-4.
In evolution
@@rafeminsi I never liked that. I believe Aelita should be the only one to be able to deactivate a tower, if the other Lyoko warriors can do it too then that basically lowers Aelita’s importance on the team
Both shows are terrible
In what way and by what comparison if any?
Code Lyoko isn't