The simple strategy for shooting lower scores | The Golfer’s Journal | Jon Sherman
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2023
- From Episode 129 with Jon Sherman: • Jon Sherman: Manage yo...
Jon Sherman is the owner of Practical Golf, a website dedicated to being an honest resource for the everyday golfer who is looking to enjoy the game more, as well as improve. He is the author of 101 Mistakes All Golfers Make and The Four Foundations of Golf.
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Im a recreational golfer its always hero time
Oh yeah I’m with you on that. Unless I’m playing for something or in a tournament. I’m going for it and taking the risky shot. That’s the whole fun in the game. That’s where all the thrill and excitement is at.
@@MisaelValdez24 until you actually start shooting lower scores…
@@MisaelValdez24 Sounds like an addicted gambler mentality. You are more interested in the anticipation of success rather than actually achieving success.
@@ParawayGolfdang how did you know I was addicted to gambling?
@@MisaelValdez24 Never said you were. 🤷♂️
Good discussion. I actually golfed my home course today just before a tournament where pin placements were all pretty tucked in corners. Decided to be aggressive all day as a test. More times than not, I ended up in the rough off our elevated greens. Probably cost me a stroke on most of these holes. Good experiment and I agree with what you guys had to say in the video.
Great golf advice but why is that door stop behind him even there? Door swings the opposite way. Sometimes things don't make sense to a carpenter who also plays golf on occasion.
Nice to see it’s not just me, but that comes from being a good poker player. 😂
Yea I stared at that thing for like almost 2 minutes completely forgetting these guys were talking
Hilarious
First thing i noticed too, great comment
😂
Great episode!
This was a great interview! Jon’s book The Four Foundations is a phenomenal read and honestly the best book on golf I’ve ever read.
You always want to be as long off the tee as you possible can without overly risking a lost ball (i.e., a hazard crosses the fairway). You always want to hit your second shot on a Par 5 as close to the green as possible (don't "lay up to a number"). And you are always more likely to not get up and down from missing a green than you are to 3-putt from anywhere on the green.
Great advice, my playing partners always say why not hit 3 or 5 wood off the tee as you hit it so far for accuracy but I’ve tried this and can still hook a 5 wood into the woods, it’s driver all the way for me now and aiming for the centre of the green with approach shots every time!
So the stats actually say for most am golfers, the dispersion between driver and 3wood is not that different. Most golfers would be better off with a 7 or 9 wood.
@@snowbind I don't even have a 3 wood in the bag anymore. I have a 5 wood and even that is hard to hit unless I am on a perfect lie.
Hi 8 handicap here (when sober) I aim for the center of the green and am never afraid to club up a bit and swing slower.
Good advice, I've never met a golfer who was "perfect" with a 3w or hybrid off tee, and also so bad with a driver it was worth losing the extra distance, driver and 3w off tee are basically the same club.
The content is very good
I always target the Bacon Cheeseburger, Large Fry and Extra Thick chocolate Shake at the half way house. Everything else are mere details. Thanks
i want to play that course! i'll bring the dude wipes lol
I always tell my mid/high handicap friends, imagine you hit all 18 greens but on the furthest part of the green away from the flag. You'd have a few three putts but would probably end up shooting mid 70s pretty easily. Hitting greens is an absolute premium. Ignore the flag and just try to get on the green. As you get better you can slowly start to creep towards the flag with the scoring clubs
One of the best rounds I ever played was using a 3w on all tee shots, never took out driver
I believe there are some holes where par is the goal, chasing birdie on every hole is a mistake. Another huge for me is challenge the side of green with more room or is an open look.
I'm curious, what's your handicap?
On hole around 380 to 430 yds a bogey is a good score, as these holes are index 1 to 9 so getting a shot anyway.
Depends on the hole IMO. If green is big or minimal obstacles, go for it. If its small or lots of obstacles, look for the layup shot area even the odds on the 1 putt you are about to get for par. The game really is quite the test of mental strength, focus, and sticking close to your strategy.
"Conservative approach, cocky swing" -- Harvey Penick
I try to play to my strengths. I figure if I keep playing the same ball my score will be lower. On the course I play the first 3 holes have left side OB and I tend to hook the ball OB so no driver. A 200 plus 5 iron in the fairway ( statistically more common for me) on a hole that’s 370 is still reachable in regulation. If I have to drop a ball or reload we’re looking at 5-6 on those holes rather than 3-5.
I hit my 5 iron about a 180 to 185 when I hit it well. But if I mis hit it, it could end up only going 160. So if a pin is at 180, and it’s in the front, and it will be disaster if I mis hit and it only goes 160, then I’m definitely using the 4 iron.
I would revise his point and say play aplroach shots that keep the ball on a decent spot on the green. Sometimes the middle of the green is treacherous. Youwant approach shots thatwill hold the green and give you chances for 2 putts, not 1 or 3. 1 putts are a consolation. Sometimes missing the green is ur best chance for par.
With the exception of maybe a hard slope back to front and a front pin, when would it ever be better to miss the green over landing in the center?
He’s really talking to people who aren’t capable yet of consistently hitting it to different quadrants of the green. Most players 8-handicap or higher should just be aiming center of green because they mishit the ball so often. That way their dispersion pattern still puts them more or less on the green, or at least farther from trouble. It gets worse when the pin is on the edge of the green, because a miss usually means a short-sided recovery shot.
If you can consistently hit the four quadrants, then you’re thinking is a little different. But you still want to use your dispersion pattern for aiming, for example, my PW is typically 20’ dispersion right or left of where I’m aiming. If a pin is tucked 10’ from the left edge, I’m going to aim about 10’ right of it. That way if I pull it 20’, I’m still on the left edge of the green instead of short-side in the rough.
As Boo Weekly said--and Bryson DeChambeau echoed--"The center of the green never moves."
So in essence you should hit to the center and if the flag happens to be there your flag hunting. Don't aim at flags in four corners. Great advice.
I use a driver every opportunity I get .. I want maximum value for my tee fees 😅 .. per course you get 12-15 drives that's better than hitting 100 range balls
As everyone should, I think people don’t realize that driver is the most forgiving club when it comes to mishits compared to any smaller faced wood or long iron
@@CX-6300 it’s the most forgiving based on the club face but the length of the club makes striking it so difficult that hitting a driver versus a 4hybrid or 5 wood is no competition for level of ease.
@@Iamwrongbut I don't know, I hit my driver much better than my 5 wood or 4 hybrid.
people also dont realize you often end up hitting more iron shots off a tee than you do off the ground.
I think I heard Jack Nicklaus say he won a US Open by hitting the middle of every green
My best friends’ son has been taking group lessons at their club. The pro took the whole group around the course with only their putter and a ball, and started them in the middle of every green putting for birdie. Sometimes they would be 40’ from the hole, and sometimes inside of 10’. Most of them ‘broke par’ or came close.
It was a great way to teach them that being on the green was more important than trying to knock the flag down on every approach shot.
I don't think he realizes how terribly off a long drive gone awry is. It can easily be on the next hole. I certainly agree that golfers have some weird beliefs about 3 or 5w - as if it goes 240 and straight every time you just touch it. I'm a fan of finding my best wood of the day and just using that once its found and trying to enjoy the rest of the game whatever length i am away from the hole with x wood.
There's some truth to that. But I do think the easiest way to improve is by expanding your driver distance and accuracy. Then adapting.
The reality is if you can bang a 300 yd drive it's a huge advantage. But also…that kind of speed can get you more off course.
You want to be able to dial it up and also hit a controlled ball depending on course layout and circumstance. Or be able to go to a wood.
The problem is too many people just cut off distance expansion and short changing the entire process.
There are two ways to play the game of golf which can mutually exist: playing practice rounds on a course with the golf of acquiring new skills, and; playing for lowest possible stroke score and to better one’s handicap and burnish one’s ego.
The middle ground I found between them years ago was the mindset of it is game of match play against the designer, like a war with 18 separate battlefields where par is really just a “draw”, birdie or better a “win”, and going over par at any point a ‘loss’ to the designer and the opportunity to practice and take risks one wouldn’t if playing stroke play and obsessed with lowering handicap.
I started playing like that after practicing and playing for three years nearly daily, for free - the perk of working as a part-time at the course as a starter/marshal at a nine-hole par 35 ‘executive’ course designed in the late 70s by Rick Jacobson as a golf academy but run as a public course. I got to where I could play aggressively and shape shots, which the course design rewarded, and would be one or two under par by the eighth hole but wind up choking on the last two holes and wind up five over due to penalty strokes from errant shots. Then one round the sun and planets aligned favorably and I finally shot par, which was the post retirement goal I had set for myself when going to work there for min. wage and putting up with all the drunk asshats.
Reflecting on my par round I realized I’d gotten there by treating each of the nine holes as a separate strategic battle with the designer. For example on the first hole, a par 4, there was a crest with a severe slope to the right at 200 yards from the second “men’s” tee I played from which tempted 99% of players to hit Driver off the tee only to find their ball in the right rough short sided to the green. After trying many different club choice and shot shape strategies I started consistently shooting par, birdie and even eagle by hitting a five iron draw ) to the left edge of the fairway which gave me a straight shot into the left-to-right / angled green I reached easily with a 7 iron with a high fade to stop and steer the ball to the pin after landing.
The #1 handicap hole, the 5th, was another par 4 with elevated tee to a fairway below that ran at a 45° angle to the left with a large pond on its right, a downslope on the right leading to OB woods on the left and a creek cutting it half a an angle 220 - 240 yard off the tee. A straight shot with Driver was a vey low percentage strategy due to the OB woods to the left, exactly the type of risk and reward good designers build into a golf hole.
If hitting Driver off the tee a fade started over the water or dawn bending the ball to match the direction of the fairway had a better chance of keeping the ball in the fairway if executed perfectly-I used both.
My second strategy was two four irons. The always put my ball safely in the middle of the fairway, at the yardage needed to reach the green with the second with a fade to shape it into the / angled green, but the element of risk with that strategy was holding ball on the green and avoiding OB woods just behind if hitting straight and two bunkers on the right waiting to snag the ball with too much ‘slice’ spin on it.
The third and most successful was three eight irons. The first to land the ball in the far end of the fairway near the front tee, second identical shot to lay-up short of the creek at the end of the fairway with a bit of draw to put the ball on the left side for the approach, then a third aimed at the pin close enough to one-putt for par or at worst bogie which isn’t bad on the #1 handicap hole.
Rick Jacobson, to his credit, designed every hole on the course with that risk and reward factor giving the advantage to someone who took the time to practice and master shaping shots which is difficult to do with range balls. But few outside of the pro ranks or those working a course get the opportunity to play solo practice rounds on the course. The USGA with it’s stroke play handicap system and marketing hype of “longer, straighter, less spin” has produced two generations of young recreational golfers who have never even attempted to shape a shot thinking to too difficult to learn and too risky to try lest it adversely affect their handicap.
The handicap system had its origins in at country clubs where members pay a fixed annual fee to play. Courses realized they could improve the cash flow by holding tournaments and awarding prizes but if net score was used only the best players would be willing to pay the entry fee. Thus the creation of a system which rewards a golfer for playing badly off a high handicap so they can win prize 🏆 for handicap adjusted score. If you don’t compete like that there’s no reason to pay USGA $35 bucks per year, just count the pars and better on a round, plus fairways and greens hit in regulation as a measure of your skill.
Unconventional? Yes. But far less stressful and a better way to improve one’s skills by focusing more on shot making than score and accepting its a game the course designer always wins until you have the skill to finish a round under par.
- Avoid big trouble, best you can✅
- If trouble finds you, get out as safely as you can ✅
- Rather too much club than not enough✅
- Fattest part of the green✅
I spend too much time looking for my ball to worry about pin placement.
Maybe I’m a more skilled golfer even though I’m a 10 handicap, but I always go for the pin. The only difference I make is I tell myself “okay if I’m going to miss it anywhere I want it short right. That way I’m chipping uphill and have plenty of green to work with.” It also helps that I’ve spent a lot of time working on wedges and 8/10 times from 90 yards I’m on the green and about 10-15 feet away from the hole.
"and 8/10 times from 90 yards I’m on the green and about 10-15 feet away from the hole."
Wow - a tour pro is only that close from 90 yards 50% of the time. Heck, they are only hitting the green 85% of the time from 90.
And you're a 10?
Most of us would be happy just to get on the green in regulation
I don’t pay $100 green fees to lay up.
Good advice but where i caddy U ALWAYS PLAY SHORT on the approach.....every green is back to front
Exactly always play aggressively on a front flag and stay below a back flag I prefer putting up hill
Not sure about this analysis when it comes to Nordic golf courses. Often there is very little room for big misses, then the ball is lost, and the rough, not far from fairway, is what you get pros complaining about at the PGA championship. I know i would score better often hitting a 4 iron off the tee on average, than my driver. But I dont want to play that type of golf.
I agree about the course conditions faced by average golfers vs. the pros - being in the fairway can be a huge premium for amateurs. I don’t know your handicap, but I’m wondering why you’d rather shoot higher scores if taking 4 iron off the tee a few times would shave 4-5 strokes off your score? Playing iron off the tee more often actually seems to have helped my swing, as I have recently been more consistent with the driver. Golf is a weird game - keep it fun!
@@vealcutlet it would likely average lower, by not losing balls. But sometimes the driver goes pure, and that makes me shoot lower. Im a 4hcp.
Whole lot of spherical cow stuff here.
when I play rabbit and squirrel I go for pins because pat don't win
Play away from trouble, err on the safe side. Use common sense, put your ego away.
Number one way to play better golf is to stop keeping score. It's supposed to be a fun game, enjoy the walk, enjoy the opportunity to make a good shot once in awhile or a long putt. Stop keeping score. Foolishness. It's a game for crying out loud...