Sidearms are insanely strong atm and are very good within their specific parameters (even extending out of them). Traveler's chosen is just a flat out strong sidearm with ability regen on the side and range that makes it to die for. Devil's Ruin is a pocket fusion and can also be used as a sidearm. The sidearm part isn't the most amazing thing about it, however its trace beam fusion is absurdly strong and with proper plays can be nearly untouchable. Trespasser fast out is a god tier 3-round-burst sidearm that after a kill makes you become an absolutely terrifying force to be reckoned with. Even just some legendary sidearms can pick up slack, but exotic sidearms all all pretty strong. I could go on and on, but sidearms are underrepresented and should be used more.
I love devils ruins/Traveler's choosen.. a clanmate just got me into sidearms since I mainly use pulses,bow and msg sidearm are just right for most of my loadouts I just which I had a couple more to swap around. I planning on buying cryosthisia soon too. Since I play mostly Stasis warlock
Forerunner/Drang is still my favorite combo in the game. Traveler’s chosen and literally anything is also extremely fun. I’ve tried to use the Devil’s Ruin many times but I just find it doesn’t compete well against people with good movement since it’s pretty easy to avoid just enough of the laser by dodging, sliding or jumping quickly.
You are right but you have a lot of people using xim type stuff and mouse and keyboard and smgs out range them so a lot stick with smgs due to the natural stability ease with m and k input
I still think the SMGs need to lose range. Really, sidearms are the ultimate proof that SMGs would be fine, but not busted if they had a bit less range.
@Redemption Naah, it's not the range, it's the literal 50% more damage they do than AR's. With pulses, SMG's do 60% more. They're tweaking those numbers in the midseason patch so it's not quite as awful but there's still going to be a gap. Sidearms can compete because you're simply not going to be at +20 meters range all the time or even necessarily very often on smaller maps. Bungie puts way too much stock in range, and have gutted multiple gun types because of that. More range combined with shit damage still just adds up to shit damage.
@@extectic they are cqc weapons of destiny of course they gonna have more damage. They supposed be primary counterpart to shotguns. The range definitely the problem. If you go the way of trying to tweak their damage they gonna be no difference between an auto rifle.
I'm gonna disagree and say that with less range, unless you only take away 1-2m, they are kinda useless. If anything, auto rifles deserve a range buff or something so we have 2 different types of full-auto guns that can complete with hand cannons and pulse rifles. SMGs can be beat if you're outside of their range or able to peak shot, much less oppressive than something like DMT or No Time To Explain.
shayuras with moving target and stasis elemental cap with peacekeepers seems to have super fast strafe speed. makes it hard for other smg users to track you. i’d love to see the strafe tested to see how much faster it is overall than just pk’s
This has been tested. A player by the name of Crystic has tested all things related to movement and strafe speed. When using PKs the effects of MT and Elemental Capacitor seem to be halved. So it’s about a 3 - 3.5% strafe speed gain putting you around a 6% ADS movement penalty
I’m a Traveler’s Chosen main, and regardless of the meta, I always have fun using it. Whether I win the match or not, getting kills with this weapon and watching the funny kill number go up feels amazing.
I’ve seen some really good sidearm users in trials this week, one that I remember a lot was the plunder pistol, in some 1v1s my 5/5 adept target lock rangefinder immortal actually lost because I was in the pistol’s optimal ttk range
My Revenant build with duskfields and mask of bakris paired with my peacebond with demo/rangefinder and cloudstrike were absolutely crushing capture zone trials this past weekend. I had 100 mobility, 40 resil, 80 recov, and 100 disc, it felt like I was in control of most situations especially when it came to cap point. Definitely gonna main my hunter for the time being, this build is just that fun. Idk the ttk with adaptive burst sidearms, but they feel amazing as well, I was even outgunning immortal/ikelos.
It's always neat to hear about these niche strategies, as they are often times more fun to use than the flavor of the week even if they take a bit more work
I would argue against the word "niche" here, especially as sidearms are getting a boost that will elevate them further. :) Unusual, perhaps, but only because people are sleeping on this. The other guns are just so down on power vs SMGs they have trouble. AR's, 50% less damage. Pulses, 60% less damage. Etc.
@@quentinb734 they’re both both stat monsters for their own type, but the main thing is pairing them means that you turn any kills with drang turn into free kills with sturm. It’s like the ace of spades perk but it’s a two tap with sturm.
Good video but I just wanna ask why you chose to put PKs in the thumbnail instead of immortal? I have mained PKs for years now, and it really sucks seeing people calling for sweeping nerfs because we have an objectively broken smg. People didn't complain when shayura's released because Titan was awful then. Now that Titan, after 3 years, can finally compete with Hunters and Warlocks in PvP, we get a broken SMG and people are focusing on Peacekeepers as much as they are the Immortal. Peacekeepers are not the issue. They make SMGs better, but whenever SMGs are average, peacekeepers are never used.
I totally understand where you’re coming from but I think the thumbnail shows pks because the main focal point of the video is the sidearm hidden trait with strafe speed similar to pks.
Peacekeepers has always been stacked. That's the problem with busted, if niche, options. When they stop being niche due to an overtuned counterpart, the whole ensemble gets looked at. Peacekeepers, as they're designed, will always limit the boundary Bungie can push an SMG and public opinion seems to think that The Immortal pushed it too far.
@@ForeverLaxx I strongly disagree that the existence of peacekeepers limits how far bungie can push SMGs. Every time before Immortal when there has been an SMG meta, peacekeepers are never pulled out. The reason it is different now is because Titan is actually competitive with Warlock and Hunter. It wasn't when multimach and shayura's first launched. Those SMGs were both busted entirely independently from peacekeepers, just like immortal. My issue with the hyperfocus that we have on Peacekeepers right now, is there are so many exotics which have been problematic for years in some cases, that seem like they should be far more prescient to fix. Stompees, Young Ahamkara's Spine, Ophidian aspects, Dunemarchers, Synthoceps, they all have been the strongest options for their respective classes for a ludicrous amount of time with minimal if any nerfs or reworks. With Titan specifically, the problem we are facing is literally the only exotics worth using are Dunemarchers, Synthoceps, One Eyed Mask, and for now, peacekeepers. Limiting that even further seems entirely unnecessary, especially when it is the least problematic of the 4 options most of the time.
You forgot that SMG's have almost 6 meters more in range than the best sidearms. That's why sidearms aren't meta. Maybe when the change to aggressive SMG's comes in, and immortal can't reach up to and past 24m, then they will be great, but as of now, they are just "good," because a better option does exist. Really, the only use of sidearm is with specialists using mechaneer's tricksleeves, because those good with it can make it win against practically anything. But for most people, sticking to peacekeepers with the rangefinder target lock immortal will be just fine.
Friendly reminder that Punching Out can roll Moving Target AND Elemental Capacitor for double ADS strafe boosts. Plus, it's able to be farmed via Vanguard engram focusing! Happy striking!
Lightweight sidearms give another +2 to mobility and automatically buffs ads speed. Farewell, Redback, and Spoiler Alert also offer .6/.67 ttks with great perk options. Don't overlook LW sidearms
Most SmG Mains on console I know and myself (been maining Peacekeepers since Beyond Light), were of the opinion, that except the outlier of IkelosSmG, Sidearms were outperforming SmGs easily. For Console Sidearms were already strong and that 30% Range buff they received in season of Warmind just kicked them into overdrive. That is also the reason I'm talking in past tense since they received a 10% nerf since then and I haven't played enough Sidearms so far in the season to give an updated opinion. However from the little sidearms I have played against, they can more than hold their own. They sometimes outperform even the best rolled smgs and Top 3 Immortal/Ikelos/Tarrabah. They might even need a nerf to their ease of use since their optimal Ttk involves a lot of Bodyshots compared to SmGs needing all heads or no shots missed in case of Targetlock Immortal. I've seen a lot of people in competitive and trials that just play the immortal because there is a lot of people saying it's incredible (which by all means it is), or because they don't know what else to use to fight it. Most of them unfortunately have no clue how to play SmGs in generall, so they lose gunfights even to handcannons in mid/close range. That's why especially if you're playing on console/Controller right now, listen to drewsky and give Sidearms a shot 👍🏻
Surprised the Lightweight sidearms never get talked about. Farewell and SS SI-2 are VERY slept on. Rangefinder Junkie, TV MKC, TD Snapshot, TD Surrounded... All these were sold by Banshee and Xur respectively recently.
Adept buzzard can reach out to 18m which seems pretty nice until you remember that adept immortal is hitting 27m with killing wind active. Hell, the regular immortal is hitting 26 with RF/KW and a range mw.
@@RunningWild32 Well obviously, side arms have more impact than SMGs, they're meant to have less range than them. Each weapon type has its own intended range bracket. Even once they eventually nerf the outlier, extreme range SMGs, 99% of all SMGs will still outrange side arms because they are meant to.
To me, Sidearms should be the medium-range option with slightly slower TTK (0.75 - 0.8) while SMGs should be the close-range option with slightly faster TTK (0.65 - 0. 7). It's a bit harder to hit your shots with a sidearm at close range, given their slower RPM than SMGs. No idea why it's the opposite.
I swear you was outside my window yesterday. I literally had a similar convo with my clan mate on using sidearms at 10 mobility and transversive steps 😂
What about Last Word? No ADS penalty because you hip-fire which also means you get radar and the TTK is much quicker. I think its range is similar to a sidearm but the falloff does lengthen the TTK quite a bit at ranges that the immortal will still shred you at.
I’ve been a Blink Voidwalker main for the better part of a year now. High Mobility is an absolute must even if it comes at the cost of some Discipline and Recovery. The issue I’m currently facing is how to balance out my stats now that Resilience feels like it’s needed at the higher end. The other issue I’m facing is what exotic to use. Astrocyte is a movement game changer but then again, so are Transversives. The same also applies to Ophidians. Are these three even currently the best options for a Blink main though? Especially if I was to start using Sidearms over my shot guns? I really hope you make a video discussing Blink Voidwalker. I have so many things I’d love to discuss about it.
Oddly enough I switched over to Gnawing Hunger with Zen and Swash, Small bore and Accurized Rounds with a Range Master work and targeting adjuster mod. It shoots like a fraking Beam upwards of 35+Metters. But every gun has it's time to shine given certain maps, Some favor SMG's Side Arms or even Shotty's. While other favor more range choices such as bow's, scouts, pulses, and of course snippers.
If you're comfortable with hipfire, consider an offhand strike fioritura or mykel. Good ttk, easy to use, no ads penalty. The fioritura also gets hipfire grip for the full hip fire experience. With hipfire grip, sidearms should have about the same hipfire range as they have ads.
What is everyones opinion on rat king. Same adaptive archetype for the 0.60s ttk, and starts health regen/invisibility after reloading. I think it allows you to justify running lower recovery on hunter, and the invisibility is nice added bonus on top to go into the next engagement with. It has less range than allied demand and traveller's chosen, but outside of that 17 meter mark I don't think you were really winning against immortals anyway.
I've always liked Rat King, but the weapon kick has a bad habit of covering your reticle and target due to the bulkier gun model. It's certainly slept on, though, and people still laugh at you if you're using it, even if you're carrying.
This is why Peacekeepers with lightweight smg's were nutty before the LW's got nerfed. That 80 mobility titan he talks about goes to 100 from the LW bonus and the sprint speed is further increased. I used a non nerfed multimach with killing wind and it has an even larger ads multiplier that does stack with Peackeepers making your strafe so absurdly quick that it would take enemies off guard. It was so odd I barely ever saw anyone else using that combo during that time and it was soooo good.
empirical evidence is my favorite weapon in the game, with encore and adagio is probably the most powerful close/mid range killer in the game, after 1 headshot kill you have encore 2x (increased stability, range and accuracy) and a 2 burst 1 headshot 3 bodyshot 0.5 TTK, its so so good. and i'm a mouse and keyboard player, its totally viable on both inputs.
Been using the vision arc sidearm and the omolon 3 burst. Pretty saucy weapons. Yet to give travellers chosen or trespasser a go? Out of the two exotics which is better
You know what, I will give Traveler's Chosen a go. I've been out of it for so long that the meta discussions go over my head in all honesty, but god damn that Traveler's Chosen was a beauty even on mnk.
The problem is that SMGs are much easier to use - and to hit optimal ttk with - than sidearms. You're almost never hitting a 4 shot kill with an adaptive sidearm on MnK, and missing even one headshot instantly brings your ttk up to 1 second. Compare that to SMGs, which can miss a few headshots and still out-ttk you. Sidearms would have to have
I think the main reason people don't use side arms is that they are much more punishing then smgs. If you miss a head shot on an smg or even a shot all together it slightly changes ttk but not much. For side arms to match they need all headshots and missing 1 bullet is much more punishing because their rate of fire is less than half their main competition. The easier option pretty much always wins out in Destiny 2.
I've tried to point this out, that sidearms are already solid even against SMG's but people just keep shouting about how unbeatable Immortal is. Buzzard is a new/old choice also in the kinetic slot, that thing can outrange even a Drang. Sure, in an encouter where you somehow manage to be exactly within an SMG's range but slightly out of sidearm range, you lose, but really, how often are you at those exact ranges? How often can an Immortal player *really* consistently proc Target Lock on you, now that they fixed the "always on" bug with it? Sidearms are still slept on. And of course, midseason patch, they'll get a boost.
People get over-focused on the range difference, forgetting (or not realizing) that most players aren't using their SMGs at the fringe of their maximum range. In my experience, players are often in the 15-18 meter range when engaging close-quarters, both to make sure they hit their shots and to avoid getting domed by a shotgun. The 'range difference' between SMGs and Sidearms is practially nullified by player tendency.
I run stompies and have 18,000 kills on my allied demand, ran it this weekend in trials and finished with a 2.46 Kd. Now you’re giving away the secrets lol
I use allied demand rf eots and travelers chosen as my main weapons in pvp and went flawless against the immortal on that w.e without even thinking about changing to the smg itself it is very good but not unbeatable. I've recently farmed out a trust with snapshot explosive payload it fully messes with target lock
The issues with sidearms are two though. Range, and ease of use. Hitting 4 crits on an adaptive sidearm is not happening every engagement. Hitting optimal ttk on Immortal happens at 25 meters, and just about every engagement. I love sidearms, but I struggle to compete with them right now
DAMN, I JUST FOUGHT YOU IN CRUCIBLE LAST NIGHT, WE BOTH HELD THE TOP OF OUR TEAMS RESPECTIVELY. You were using the battler and the Magnum on Cathedral of Dusk.
Here is the problem with sidearms: they are very unforgiving. You miss one shot with the immortal? Only adds like .05 to the ttk, miss with a 300 rpm sidearm? Suddenly your .6 goes to a .75
Only reason Sidearms haven't been found to be the true meta is because of their terrible accuracy on MnK. If they were just as accurate on MnK as they are on controller, you'd see Sidearms become meta in a flash.
It's because the people who would be running sidearm are running immortal instead. I remember last season when sidearms were bonkers for a few months, dominance felt similar to immortal (not nearly as bad, less range, but same taste).
I got sick of hearing the Immortal so I vaulted it, slapped on my max range target lock/eye of the storm Prolonged Engagement and Foetracer. Let's just say it shreds.
bungie: so peacekeepers gives movility, slide distance, reduces the ADS penalty, and reloads your weapon, just for using the most meta weapon in the game? what's the problem? sounds well and balanced, not like stompees NERF STOMPEES AGAIN!
I gave up on trying to do anything in Trials after the first weekend and loss after loss. It may be a great gun but its totally fucking inaccessible to me, which is very typical of Bungie.
I hate this community's constant need to be spoonfed. They've been crying about SMGs for weeks now. I keep telling them SMGs are good, but popular does not mean best or overpowered. You can certainly compete with them. I've never stopped using sidearms. I've just slightly modified how I enter engagements. If an SMG can kill me, then I've put myself in a position where almost anything can kill me.
@@drewskyschannel and, after watching many "pro" d2 pvpers get shit on in Halo, its no wonder you gravitate back to destiny...the skill gap a lot bigger with much, much easier lobbies.
@@simplylethul I ain't a pro, I wish I could be but simple fact is I'm not good enough and while I love halo it isn't what it once was to me anymore. I don't ban people with a differing opinion.
@@drewskyschannel now you wannabe "pros" are on zone control because it's cbmm and not sbmm. Lmao! Gotta get those easy lobbies wins amd fed your egos, like whinycakes does. 🤣🤣🤣
![Yeat & Summrs - GO2WORK [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NEFEwfPcXRA/mqdefault.jpg)
Sidearms are insanely strong atm and are very good within their specific parameters (even extending out of them). Traveler's chosen is just a flat out strong sidearm with ability regen on the side and range that makes it to die for. Devil's Ruin is a pocket fusion and can also be used as a sidearm. The sidearm part isn't the most amazing thing about it, however its trace beam fusion is absurdly strong and with proper plays can be nearly untouchable. Trespasser fast out is a god tier 3-round-burst sidearm that after a kill makes you become an absolutely terrifying force to be reckoned with. Even just some legendary sidearms can pick up slack, but exotic sidearms all all pretty strong. I could go on and on, but sidearms are underrepresented and should be used more.
About to hit 18k cruc kills on my Travelers Chosen, ma bby
@@jamesdegroat9101 I have 10k with my Cryosthesia 😄
I love devils ruins/Traveler's choosen.. a clanmate just got me into sidearms since I mainly use pulses,bow and msg sidearm are just right for most of my loadouts I just which I had a couple more to swap around. I planning on buying cryosthisia soon too. Since I play mostly Stasis warlock
Forerunner/Drang is still my favorite combo in the game. Traveler’s chosen and literally anything is also extremely fun. I’ve tried to use the Devil’s Ruin many times but I just find it doesn’t compete well against people with good movement since it’s pretty easy to avoid just enough of the laser by dodging, sliding or jumping quickly.
You are right but you have a lot of people using xim type stuff and mouse and keyboard and smgs out range them so a lot stick with smgs due to the natural stability ease with m and k input
I absolutely LOVE the overlapped strafe comparison on Eternity, Drew. Whoever came up with that idea is just, chefs kiss, genius.
Thank you drewsky for furthering PvP theorycrafting and meta/off meta conversation
Pew Pew goes the sidearm
Lol
I still think the SMGs need to lose range. Really, sidearms are the ultimate proof that SMGs would be fine, but not busted if they had a bit less range.
Either less range or waaaay more recoil
@Redemption Naah, it's not the range, it's the literal 50% more damage they do than AR's. With pulses, SMG's do 60% more. They're tweaking those numbers in the midseason patch so it's not quite as awful but there's still going to be a gap. Sidearms can compete because you're simply not going to be at +20 meters range all the time or even necessarily very often on smaller maps. Bungie puts way too much stock in range, and have gutted multiple gun types because of that. More range combined with shit damage still just adds up to shit damage.
They should not be able to role with Rangefinder. Think if u take rangefinder away, it would be in line
@@extectic they are cqc weapons of destiny of course they gonna have more damage. They supposed be primary counterpart to shotguns. The range definitely the problem. If you go the way of trying to tweak their damage they gonna be no difference between an auto rifle.
I'm gonna disagree and say that with less range, unless you only take away 1-2m, they are kinda useless. If anything, auto rifles deserve a range buff or something so we have 2 different types of full-auto guns that can complete with hand cannons and pulse rifles. SMGs can be beat if you're outside of their range or able to peak shot, much less oppressive than something like DMT or No Time To Explain.
shayuras with moving target and stasis elemental cap with peacekeepers seems to have super fast strafe speed. makes it hard for other smg users to track you. i’d love to see the strafe tested to see how much faster it is overall than just pk’s
This has been tested. A player by the name of Crystic has tested all things related to movement and strafe speed. When using PKs the effects of MT and Elemental Capacitor seem to be halved. So it’s about a 3 - 3.5% strafe speed gain putting you around a 6% ADS movement penalty
@@GillySuits bless ur soul for posting this
@@GillySuits thank you
Seeing you upload again regularly is actually banger, pls don’t leave again. Also pls talk about cones.
I’m a Traveler’s Chosen main, and regardless of the meta, I always have fun using it. Whether I win the match or not, getting kills with this weapon and watching the funny kill number go up feels amazing.
it’s always been a solid sidearm. it’s the only one i can tolerate
Its easily best 4 sidearms in the game. I main it too. Love the thing!!
Over 7k kills so far since i use it, this gun is a beast and feel really amazing!
I used to run The Huckleberry and The Recluse with Peacekeepers for fun.
“Allied demand best”
Buzzard: It’s ok, you haven’t seen me at my final form. I forgive you
I’ve seen some really good sidearm users in trials this week, one that I remember a lot was the plunder pistol, in some 1v1s my 5/5 adept target lock rangefinder immortal actually lost because I was in the pistol’s optimal ttk range
Where you been at homie?
Sidearm sniper main here, everyone is sleeping on farewell, cryostesia, forgiveness for dealing with the immortal. Travelers is Goated too
I was looking at my zen kill clip lonesome wondering if it's any good now
18 kelvins with kill clip & travellers chosen. No problem.
My Revenant build with duskfields and mask of bakris paired with my peacebond with demo/rangefinder and cloudstrike were absolutely crushing capture zone trials this past weekend. I had 100 mobility, 40 resil, 80 recov, and 100 disc, it felt like I was in control of most situations especially when it came to cap point. Definitely gonna main my hunter for the time being, this build is just that fun. Idk the ttk with adaptive burst sidearms, but they feel amazing as well, I was even outgunning immortal/ikelos.
It's always neat to hear about these niche strategies, as they are often times more fun to use than the flavor of the week even if they take a bit more work
I would argue against the word "niche" here, especially as sidearms are getting a boost that will elevate them further. :) Unusual, perhaps, but only because people are sleeping on this. The other guns are just so down on power vs SMGs they have trouble. AR's, 50% less damage. Pulses, 60% less damage. Etc.
Sturm and Drang feast in this meta.
haven’t used strum in a while but drang still kicks ass for me
@@quentinb734 they’re both both stat monsters for their own type, but the main thing is pairing them means that you turn any kills with drang turn into free kills with sturm. It’s like the ace of spades perk but it’s a two tap with sturm.
Yes, the side arm can compete with big issues . I have that ttk firing 750 rounds pre min. Making it 10x more forgiving
Good video but I just wanna ask why you chose to put PKs in the thumbnail instead of immortal? I have mained PKs for years now, and it really sucks seeing people calling for sweeping nerfs because we have an objectively broken smg. People didn't complain when shayura's released because Titan was awful then. Now that Titan, after 3 years, can finally compete with Hunters and Warlocks in PvP, we get a broken SMG and people are focusing on Peacekeepers as much as they are the Immortal. Peacekeepers are not the issue. They make SMGs better, but whenever SMGs are average, peacekeepers are never used.
I totally understand where you’re coming from but I think the thumbnail shows pks because the main focal point of the video is the sidearm hidden trait with strafe speed similar to pks.
Peacekeepers has always been stacked. That's the problem with busted, if niche, options. When they stop being niche due to an overtuned counterpart, the whole ensemble gets looked at. Peacekeepers, as they're designed, will always limit the boundary Bungie can push an SMG and public opinion seems to think that The Immortal pushed it too far.
@@ltzEvy Ohh ok makes sense.
@@ForeverLaxx I strongly disagree that the existence of peacekeepers limits how far bungie can push SMGs.
Every time before Immortal when there has been an SMG meta, peacekeepers are never pulled out. The reason it is different now is because Titan is actually competitive with Warlock and Hunter. It wasn't when multimach and shayura's first launched. Those SMGs were both busted entirely independently from peacekeepers, just like immortal.
My issue with the hyperfocus that we have on Peacekeepers right now, is there are so many exotics which have been problematic for years in some cases, that seem like they should be far more prescient to fix. Stompees, Young Ahamkara's Spine, Ophidian aspects, Dunemarchers, Synthoceps, they all have been the strongest options for their respective classes for a ludicrous amount of time with minimal if any nerfs or reworks. With Titan specifically, the problem we are facing is literally the only exotics worth using are Dunemarchers, Synthoceps, One Eyed Mask, and for now, peacekeepers. Limiting that even further seems entirely unnecessary, especially when it is the least problematic of the 4 options most of the time.
@@notacommie7089 That's a lot of words to prove you don't understand how design constraints work.
You forgot that SMG's have almost 6 meters more in range than the best sidearms. That's why sidearms aren't meta. Maybe when the change to aggressive SMG's comes in, and immortal can't reach up to and past 24m, then they will be great, but as of now, they are just "good," because a better option does exist. Really, the only use of sidearm is with specialists using mechaneer's tricksleeves, because those good with it can make it win against practically anything. But for most people, sticking to peacekeepers with the rangefinder target lock immortal will be just fine.
I mentioned the range under downsides
Friendly reminder that Punching Out can roll Moving Target AND Elemental Capacitor for double ADS strafe boosts.
Plus, it's able to be farmed via Vanguard engram focusing! Happy striking!
Lightweight sidearms give another +2 to mobility and automatically buffs ads speed. Farewell, Redback, and Spoiler Alert also offer .6/.67 ttks with great perk options. Don't overlook LW sidearms
LeMon and Farewell was my go to pvp loadout on hunter a couple seasons ago
Redback and other lightweight Veist Stinger guns double down on ADS/strafe speed, too. Funnelweb gets both but not Sidearm boost.
if only there was a new one bungie seems to hate lightweight firearms, just give me a crafted one already
This is exactly the kind of videos I missed when you were gone, Drewsky. Great analysis.
Most SmG Mains on console I know and myself (been maining Peacekeepers since Beyond Light), were of the opinion, that except the outlier of IkelosSmG, Sidearms were outperforming SmGs easily.
For Console Sidearms were already strong and that 30% Range buff they received in season of Warmind just kicked them into overdrive.
That is also the reason I'm talking in past tense since they received a 10% nerf since then and I haven't played enough Sidearms so far in the season to give an updated opinion.
However from the little sidearms I have played against, they can more than hold their own.
They sometimes outperform even the best rolled smgs and Top 3 Immortal/Ikelos/Tarrabah.
They might even need a nerf to their ease of use since their optimal Ttk involves a lot of Bodyshots compared to SmGs needing all heads or no shots missed in case of Targetlock Immortal.
I've seen a lot of people in competitive and trials that just play the immortal because there is a lot of people saying it's incredible (which by all means it is), or because they don't know what else to use to fight it.
Most of them unfortunately have no clue how to play SmGs in generall, so they lose gunfights even to handcannons in mid/close range.
That's why especially if you're playing on console/Controller right now, listen to drewsky and give Sidearms a shot 👍🏻
Surprised the Lightweight sidearms never get talked about. Farewell and SS SI-2 are VERY slept on.
Rangefinder Junkie, TV MKC, TD Snapshot, TD Surrounded... All these were sold by Banshee and Xur respectively recently.
I've been rocking Allied Demand and melting people. it seems to do really good straight up and has a lot of range to keep up with the immortal.
SMGs are just more forgiving and have similar TTKs. Also, max range sidearms are around 18 meters which is substantially less than SMGs.
not at close range, sidearms melt SMGs
You should try the buzzard with rangefinder. I can't wait for the adept
When will we be able to get the adepts version, my favourite weapon type in the crucible are sidearms, I want to try them ALL
Adept buzzard can reach out to 18m which seems pretty nice until you remember that adept immortal is hitting 27m with killing wind active. Hell, the regular immortal is hitting 26 with RF/KW and a range mw.
imo i think that forerunner/drang with mechaneer's is incredibly underrated. Its very strong in the right hands (not mine yet lol)
The biggest problem with the Immortal is the enormous range compared with the sidearm. Even when the ttks are equal.
Not just Immortal, it's quite literally almost all SMGs that outrange even the highest range sidearms.
It's not enormous, and most engagements I've been in have been within sidearm range.
@@RunningWild32 Well obviously, side arms have more impact than SMGs, they're meant to have less range than them. Each weapon type has its own intended range bracket. Even once they eventually nerf the outlier, extreme range SMGs, 99% of all SMGs will still outrange side arms because they are meant to.
@@Demios101 the longest range voor sidearms is max 19meters. Smg's can reach till 28 meter. That's autorifle range. That's a huge gap.
@@Vyper- I'd like to know the rolls on an aggressive frame SMG reaches that far without compromises.
As a fellow Drew, I approve this video
To me, Sidearms should be the medium-range option with slightly slower TTK (0.75 - 0.8) while SMGs should be the close-range option with slightly faster TTK (0.65 - 0. 7). It's a bit harder to hit your shots with a sidearm at close range, given their slower RPM than SMGs. No idea why it's the opposite.
I swear you was outside my window yesterday. I literally had a similar convo with my clan mate on using sidearms at 10 mobility and transversive steps 😂
Punching out w Range finder Kill clip destroys Immortal was so great this week
What about Last Word? No ADS penalty because you hip-fire which also means you get radar and the TTK is much quicker. I think its range is similar to a sidearm but the falloff does lengthen the TTK quite a bit at ranges that the immortal will still shred you at.
I’ve been a Blink Voidwalker main for the better part of a year now. High Mobility is an absolute must even if it comes at the cost of some Discipline and Recovery.
The issue I’m currently facing is how to balance out my stats now that Resilience feels like it’s needed at the higher end. The other issue I’m facing is what exotic to use. Astrocyte is a movement game changer but then again, so are Transversives. The same also applies to Ophidians. Are these three even currently the best options for a Blink main though? Especially if I was to start using Sidearms over my shot guns?
I really hope you make a video discussing Blink Voidwalker. I have so many things I’d love to discuss about it.
Oddly enough I switched over to Gnawing Hunger with Zen and Swash, Small bore and Accurized Rounds with a Range Master work and targeting adjuster mod. It shoots like a fraking Beam upwards of 35+Metters. But every gun has it's time to shine given certain maps, Some favor SMG's Side Arms or even Shotty's. While other favor more range choices such as bow's, scouts, pulses, and of course snippers.
Been a pk Titan since beyond light. My stats are 5,10,10,10,4,3. With pk mobility is also 10.
Season of plunder sidearm go crazy. I love it
I’m glad you’re well
If you're comfortable with hipfire, consider an offhand strike fioritura or mykel. Good ttk, easy to use, no ads penalty. The fioritura also gets hipfire grip for the full hip fire experience. With hipfire grip, sidearms should have about the same hipfire range as they have ads.
Also with peacekeepers, whenever you have your smg out you get a small increase to your FoV
When running
What is everyones opinion on rat king. Same adaptive archetype for the 0.60s ttk, and starts health regen/invisibility after reloading. I think it allows you to justify running lower recovery on hunter, and the invisibility is nice added bonus on top to go into the next engagement with. It has less range than allied demand and traveller's chosen, but outside of that 17 meter mark I don't think you were really winning against immortals anyway.
I've always liked Rat King, but the weapon kick has a bad habit of covering your reticle and target due to the bulkier gun model. It's certainly slept on, though, and people still laugh at you if you're using it, even if you're carrying.
Hey man I'm the guy that used merciless In those couple of matches, just wanted to say I love your stuff and keep it up bro!
This is why Peacekeepers with lightweight smg's were nutty before the LW's got nerfed. That 80 mobility titan he talks about goes to 100 from the LW bonus and the sprint speed is further increased. I used a non nerfed multimach with killing wind and it has an even larger ads multiplier that does stack with Peackeepers making your strafe so absurdly quick that it would take enemies off guard. It was so odd I barely ever saw anyone else using that combo during that time and it was soooo good.
empirical evidence is my favorite weapon in the game, with encore and adagio is probably the most powerful close/mid range killer in the game, after 1 headshot kill you have encore 2x (increased stability, range and accuracy) and a 2 burst 1 headshot 3 bodyshot 0.5 TTK, its so so good. and i'm a mouse and keyboard player, its totally viable on both inputs.
Can we talk about how Mech’s Sleeves don’t remotely compare to Peacekeepers?
*Ness voice* PK TITAN!!!!
Getaway artist travelers chosen slaps
Always stoked to see you upload man, another banger!
Been using the vision arc sidearm and the omolon 3 burst. Pretty saucy weapons. Yet to give travellers chosen or trespasser a go? Out of the two exotics which is better
Me, a warlock main: *furiously taking notes*
Here's the problem with side arms, they are terrible on mnk. However they do have the airborne trait going for them.
I’ll probably keep using Jade Rabbit and Drang. Can’t snipe if you’re getting flinched to the moon and if you get close enough, Drang is by my side.
This is one of many reasons I stop using LW and switch to Travelers chosen to pair with a sniper. It’s just as strong but with more benefits
Last 4 times I went flawless its been solo with a blink warlock. Drang + forerunner
" res changes" this season is s tier.
You know what, I will give Traveler's Chosen a go. I've been out of it for so long that the meta discussions go over my head in all honesty, but god damn that Traveler's Chosen was a beauty even on mnk.
I would say that the problem here is that sidearms seem to have trouble hitting heads on MnK compared to SMGs
As a brigand's law enjoyer, I cannot believe they are being buffed at all.
Big thing holding sidearms back is the range gap
Blink warlock does benefit from mobility a lot
finally a new traveler's chosen enjoyer
The problem is that SMGs are much easier to use - and to hit optimal ttk with - than sidearms. You're almost never hitting a 4 shot kill with an adaptive sidearm on MnK, and missing even one headshot instantly brings your ttk up to 1 second. Compare that to SMGs, which can miss a few headshots and still out-ttk you. Sidearms would have to have
only way i felt able to even compete on this meta as a hunter is drang tricksleeves and forerunner both with 100 AE on strand
I think the main reason people don't use side arms is that they are much more punishing then smgs. If you miss a head shot on an smg or even a shot all together it slightly changes ttk but not much. For side arms to match they need all headshots and missing 1 bullet is much more punishing because their rate of fire is less than half their main competition.
The easier option pretty much always wins out in Destiny 2.
I've tried to point this out, that sidearms are already solid even against SMG's but people just keep shouting about how unbeatable Immortal is. Buzzard is a new/old choice also in the kinetic slot, that thing can outrange even a Drang. Sure, in an encouter where you somehow manage to be exactly within an SMG's range but slightly out of sidearm range, you lose, but really, how often are you at those exact ranges? How often can an Immortal player *really* consistently proc Target Lock on you, now that they fixed the "always on" bug with it? Sidearms are still slept on. And of course, midseason patch, they'll get a boost.
People get over-focused on the range difference, forgetting (or not realizing) that most players aren't using their SMGs at the fringe of their maximum range. In my experience, players are often in the 15-18 meter range when engaging close-quarters, both to make sure they hit their shots and to avoid getting domed by a shotgun. The 'range difference' between SMGs and Sidearms is practially nullified by player tendency.
I run stompies and have 18,000 kills on my allied demand, ran it this weekend in trials and finished with a 2.46 Kd. Now you’re giving away the secrets lol
I use allied demand rf eots and travelers chosen as my main weapons in pvp and went flawless against the immortal on that w.e without even thinking about changing to the smg itself it is very good but not unbeatable. I've recently farmed out a trust with snapshot explosive payload it fully messes with target lock
Wait… you’re alive? RUclips hasn’t pushed out a single recent video of yours to my feed. Here we are a month later.
The issues with sidearms are two though. Range, and ease of use. Hitting 4 crits on an adaptive sidearm is not happening every engagement. Hitting optimal ttk on Immortal happens at 25 meters, and just about every engagement. I love sidearms, but I struggle to compete with them right now
DAMN, I JUST FOUGHT YOU IN CRUCIBLE LAST NIGHT, WE BOTH HELD THE TOP OF OUR TEAMS RESPECTIVELY. You were using the battler and the Magnum on Cathedral of Dusk.
Excellent video as usual , you are like the Joe Rogan of Destiny
How does the accuracy adjusted ttk hold up compared to the immortal? Think I'll spend some time with adaptives more seeing this. Awesome video duder.
I believe it's a .80 5 shot so pretty solid. Biggest downside is range, and it's a bit more punishing for missing.
@@drewskyschannel thanks man. Tried your Fr0stee build. Forgot how great that exotic is.
For SMG's to hit 0.67 TTK you only need 5 resil not 7 everything above 5 is just extra but does not increase the TTK.
Great vid
Here is the problem with sidearms: they are very unforgiving. You miss one shot with the immortal? Only adds like .05 to the ttk, miss with a 300 rpm sidearm? Suddenly your .6 goes to a .75
I went flawless with these weapons on my titan last week
Maybe on controller, but on mnk most sidearms have super wonky hit detection
Saying PK Titan or PK SMG are both more syllables than just saying peacekeeper's like a normal person.
Damn I feel like there’s an exotic that greatly boosts sidearm effectiveness… not sure which class it’s on… but screw peacekeeper titans! I guess
Only reason Sidearms haven't been found to be the true meta is because of their terrible accuracy on MnK. If they were just as accurate on MnK as they are on controller, you'd see Sidearms become meta in a flash.
It's because the people who would be running sidearm are running immortal instead. I remember last season when sidearms were bonkers for a few months, dominance felt similar to immortal (not nearly as bad, less range, but same taste).
I miss Anonymous Autumn so much.
I got sick of hearing the Immortal so I vaulted it, slapped on my max range target lock/eye of the storm Prolonged Engagement and Foetracer. Let's just say it shreds.
a shame about its zoom value.
Onya man
6:03 I dissagre, hitting an optimal ttk whit a sidearm is way harder than a SMG for some reason.
They're worse on PC than on Console, but Sidearms have issues landing crits in general, even after their aim assist oddity was (mostly) corrected.
bungie: so peacekeepers gives movility, slide distance, reduces the ADS penalty, and reloads your weapon, just for using the most meta weapon in the game? what's the problem? sounds well and balanced, not like stompees NERF STOMPEES AGAIN!
Smg’s should be no more than 22 meters of range. All msg should sit around 20-22 meters. With 600 rpm at 22 meters max🙃
I gave up on trying to do anything in Trials after the first weekend and loss after loss. It may be a great gun but its totally fucking inaccessible to me, which is very typical of Bungie.
imagine they put target lock on a sidearm lmfao
I hate this community's constant need to be spoonfed. They've been crying about SMGs for weeks now. I keep telling them SMGs are good, but popular does not mean best or overpowered. You can certainly compete with them. I've never stopped using sidearms. I've just slightly modified how I enter engagements. If an SMG can kill me, then I've put myself in a position where almost anything can kill me.
Really the only side are I trust is t.c my still got the white one
Sidearms don't have the range to compete with smgs
the goat 🐐
Buzzard puts in work for me.
So… no tricksleeves?
Just use dragon’s shadow then you won’t be locked to double sidearm
@@GMurph2336 what if I like using double sidearms? I love using forerunner lol
@@6ixgoat746 you do you brother, if it’s getting you results keep rocking it
Id rather die to the immortal for the next year rhan go back to dying to sidearms.
somebody tell truevanguard
Lol 7 resil are you crazy for one 750 bullet more 😂🤡 my man’s reading way to much into pointless shit that doesn’t really matter and not into skill 😂
Drew and whinycakes actually think they can compete vs actual fps pros. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
No I don't otherwise I'd be one?
@@drewskyschannel also, if anyone says anything that goes hard against your opinions, you ban them in stream, especially whinycakes. 🤣
@@drewskyschannel and, after watching many "pro" d2 pvpers get shit on in Halo, its no wonder you gravitate back to destiny...the skill gap a lot bigger with much, much easier lobbies.
@@simplylethul I ain't a pro, I wish I could be but simple fact is I'm not good enough and while I love halo it isn't what it once was to me anymore. I don't ban people with a differing opinion.
@@drewskyschannel now you wannabe "pros" are on zone control because it's cbmm and not sbmm. Lmao! Gotta get those easy lobbies wins amd fed your egos, like whinycakes does. 🤣🤣🤣