So Drewsky, inspired by your last vid I tried out 8/7/8 with a lightweight AND Font mods. Making orbs is more deterministic now, so on orb pickup you can get max stats for at least 10 seconds - that’s long enough to get the benefits from full 10 rec. If you min to 5 rec, a Font boost to recovery would get you 10 sec of 8 rec, which is long enough to get the benefits of 8 rec.
There is also one catch about sidearms and The Last Word: Sidearms typically have an average range bandth of 14 to 17 meters where as The Last Word starts damage dropoff at the 16-17 meter mark. What is making The Immortal a problem as a weapon is it powercreeping stats, its SMG frame, Rangefinder (FINALLY GETTING NERFED FOR SURE), and Target Lock but not so much with target lock now due to it being less forgiving now on missed shots
Fantastic video Drewsky. Well thought out and clear to understand for players of all skill levels. Seriously, one of the best videos I've seen on any Destiny channel in a while. Well done!
I think mobility needs to change. Right now the two other classes can completely ignore mobility, still be faster AND have a form of dodge. Yes you can have faster strafe speed, but honestly, it is so pointless against good players. IMO mobility needs to control sprint speed and slide distance, tier 10 being what stompees/transversives give you right now. Since D2 launch Warlocks and Titans only had 5 stats to focus on, while Hunters had to balance all 6 to be competitive. The core of PvP is aim and more importantly movement, which is why Transversives and Stompees are the most used exotics (unless something is broken, like Omni). By being able to spec into actual Mobility, you can experiment with other exotics. If you use anything but stompees today you will feel like a snail, and every other class will be able to rotate around the map MUCH faster than you, even if you max mobility.
Transversives are not as highly used as ophidians, mainly due to the bonuses of ophidians being higher than just slide and speed. But i use ophidians because in close quarters i never win against a hunter. Up close they are a rubber band
@@skywardbutterknife7905 meh cqc with d2 blink kinda sucks. You can pull off a blink be 15 meters away and still die to a melee. If you like jumping in cqc Stompee Hunter jump is the best there’s no debate.
Absolutely. Makes no sense to me that tier 10 mobility hunters are still slower than Titans and Warlocks on lower tiers. Higher tier mobility investment could benefit all classes, you just have to invest in the stat if that playstyle benefits you.
i just wanted to comment me and my buddy played you on the burnout and you just broke all of the ankles with your invis and movement good shit and gg's man
Super thoughtful video, I appreciate the approach you take to this particular topic as an opportunity to grow and improve as a player rather than letting negativity run rampant. Also, fashion is on point.
4:40 I think it's a stretch to consider rifts as "area control." They're almost the opposite; area control denies your opponents' movement into an area. With Rifts you deny *yourself* movement by committing to an area. I'm confused what you mean, suggesting that Warlock Rifts allow you to challenge supers. Surely Dodge is better for this than Rift?
Well of Radiance is a fantastic tool for taking objectives as you get monstrous amounts of rapid healing and a great damage boost making it suicide to push a well in control objectives. Snipers are generally the best tool to remove a well of radiance.
The only subclass I'm able to use in order to make up the primary stat gap is Stasis and that's only because, as the prototype "build your own subclass," Bungie loaded it with stat boosts. The loss of Powerful Friends is huge.
@@darthode Yes, I use it. Some of the builds even use Artifice armor. Every build that isn't Stasis loses 20 or more points in Recovery compared to what I can get *in* Stasis. It's annoying.
Bro before I even finish the video, it’s so nice that you posted this because I’ve been trying my best to figure out what class im gonna main to optimize me time. Since I no longer can play all three classes, it’d be nice to see what ur thoughts are on hunter for PvE as well . Cheers Ycs Drew Edited* just corrected “it’s nice to see what ur thoughts are on PvE” to id be nice.
As a hunter main I’ve been dumping recov and i think it hasn’t been as bad as people think. You have to play a little more conservatively right after a fight but you get used to it
It isn’t surviving that is as much the problem, it’s the downtime. In a game like destiny higher apm directly translates to better play. Whenever you stop and have to recover, that hurts your apm. In pvp this means the enemy has time to move up on you and take space in favorable positions since you can’t fight. And in pve this means a lot of times you have a much harder time handling the endless tide of ads being thrown in your face, unless you have a healing option prepared. In pve it is more manageable but not having to worry as much about downtime goes a long way in making your job easier. In the end mobility is just booty cheeks.
I’ve been running 9/6/9/6/6/6. I’m not maxing* out any of my stats but I find that most of them are high enough to where it feels really good and consistent. Of course I had triple 100’s last season. Rip.
Yeah the stat distribution for Hunter is really what hurts us the most, it's manageable or really not so relevant in PVE (but it still bugs me minmax-wise). But in PVP it's truly backbreaking. I've recently decided to gut my Recov in favor of more Resil and it's worked better for me. FEELS WIERD to have 50-80 Recov, and 70 Resil but I mean I can get used to it. Or not I dunno, I might go back to 2 resil and 100 recov. For zone control I find Stasis to still be competitive, or trips. I'll keep saying it though, I reaaaally think Mobility should be given the Resil gives Flinch resist treatment now, where Mob could give handling or whatever just to make it worth it. I dunno, something needs to be done to make Mobility worth something, to a point where even Titan or Warlock might want Mobility (they won;t, but it can make them think about).
thank God someone with an audience brought attention to the stalemate situation for Hunters, it's about time we receive a buff at least in PvP. I hate being forced to spec into mobility, resilience AND recovery to be able to play a match without being handicapped when the rest of the classes don't need to spec into mobility
Don't worry Bungie is gonna nerf Stompees next patch once again, just so that Hunters are completely unplayable. Worst main stat and soon worst movement exotic. Time to practice Warlock.
They should make strength spec with hunter class abilities or intellect and give hunters a minor movement speed buff and give intrinsic buffs to the other classes, then it would be fair for everyone
@@Tc4c3nc0 man, the fact that the "agile, movement" class has the worst movement in the game is fucking sad and baffling, because even titans have a shorter cooldown arc dodge, AND they can spam shoulder charge for mobility without penalty, AND warlocks have Icarus or Heat Rises on top of their class's proficiencies
@@robertgray3710 a good "rework" for mobility would be like a dodge chance on PvE damage like on other games, and definitely something else for PvP because the dodge 1. doesn't break aim assist 2. is on a very long cooldown 3. doesn't give i-frames
@@HoveyTheHallowed "BuT hUnTeRs CaN jUmP oVeR yOu" - Bungie decided to listen to players that can't look up and players that get farmed every single game.
In terms of weapons crimson is worth a mention as per it healing on kills you can negate recovery on your stats and put it all into resilience instead (something I often do) Also if using wormhusk crown exotic Ill tend to forego a bit of recovery
Something you didn’t mention was graviton forfeit, while dumping recov sounds terrible if you max mobility and resilience, turning invisible with either your dodge, smoke, or rat king to bring your recovery to practically 10
Blink hunter can easily break target lock and create distance. It also allows you to close the gap with these stronger smgs with shotguns and potentially clean up with a melee that restores full health and dodge. Arc staff is only countered by one super, and that is chaos reach if you run raiju's. I dont find the need to crutch on a movement exotic with blink so I run raiju's to absolutely wipe supers and clean up the entire team with ease sometimes twice over. Blinding nades also allow you to temporarily disable radar, allowing the hunter class that is associated with rogues in most rpgs to sneak up on opponents and take them out.
That only works in 6vs6, you arent getting your super before other classes do. Also let me introduce ARC titan to you can literally do EVERYTHING better than Arc hunter, except blink, which is a gimmick and doesnt work vs good players.
@@jormungandr4690 fun fact. Arc hunter can easily shut down arc titan by creating space. Blink allows you to break cover and move to other parts of the map that isnt typically accessible with normal jumps. The utility of arc hunter also allows them to not spec fully into mobility, as blink is the fastest movement option in the game, and an aspect improves the regen rate of class ability with sprinting. This allows you to put important points into resilience.
@@rainbowhippos9035 still the hunter need to invest on something the other 2 doesn’t need to. They will have more points for other abilities. Is not that the hunter is not strong is just that the hunter need to be more careful in the distribution
My problem with all of these solutions, and I agree that they are solutions, somewhat, is that there is a tradeoff with every single one of them where titans and warlocks don't really have any trade offs with their best builds in this current meta. Dragons shadow has fallen off because of the dodge cooldown nerfs, you used to be able to have infinite uptime with wraithmetal mail before they nerfed the hell out of dodges. And now you have around 7 seconds where you're just left feeling slow as hell when the perk runs out. Void hunter got hit way too hard with the radar changes and makes flanking way harder than it used to be and it kind of just ruined the class for me since radar is so important and now you're left with a massive handicap when using the class's identity. Last word just isn't good on M&K. I found that sidearms can work well against Immortal users but trying to play up close against a titan with peacekeepers and knockout is just a fucking nightmare. I just bit the bullet and stopped maining hunter after the stompees nerf and switched to solar warlock. I now have better AE, I'm faster in nearly every single way, I can deal with titans in close quarters because I have Icarus dash and Ophidians. Hunter just isn't fun anymore and it makes me sad.
I use void hunter and honestly. I like the changes because it greatly increases the skill ceiling. I'm still able to greatly influence maps with radar manip and flanks despite the nerfs.
Me, who still loves hunter swaping faster than any ophidians warlock with 30 handling shotgun. (Stran) The. I'm running Arc Hunter, almost 1 taping of poor warlocks and titans with my melee very fast evade, very amazing handling, because new boots are amazing
The only way I'm able to make Void work effectively is to run Gyrfalcon + Repulsor Brace Hero's Burden (Hero's Burden specifically because of Skulking Wolf).
Honestly if they just gave mobility some intrinsic benefit outside of a walk/jump bonus, it would help. No other class needs to spec into all three main stats. Not sure what it should do, but something would be really helpful.
Sprint speed and slide distance. That is all it needs to do. Now there is a trade off for not having mobility AND you can experiment with new exotics since you dont have to use stompees/transversives.
Having played all 3 classes for a decent while (hunter main) I genuinely don’t understand how ppl say hunters are the best class in the game bc they’re the most used. Coolest/edgiest? Sure. Best? Not when we have to sacrifice stats and are arguably the least mobile class. We have our strengths sure, but they’re not as strong as the other classes strengths.
As a Warlock during Y1 who was forced to run atleast 4 recov due to the armour 1.0 system, as a Titan during shadowkeep era that now had to run near max resilience if I wanted to do my class role and as you a Hunter during this Immortal era not being able to reasonably deal with immortal because you need to run mobility just so you can use your subclasses, can Bungie rework the intellect stat into class ability cooldown already? This shit is so annoying. Also, while they're at it, maybe Bungie can look into Titan skating and Warlock surfing, especially Warlock surfing with higher FPS. It doesn't really make sense that running lower mobility let's you move faster. Anyway, thanks for the vid Drew, I'm glad somebody brought this up.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP! The warlock and the titan are just as agile if not more than a hunter. Stompees are the only exotic that increase movement speed that are penalized heavily. The titans or warlock exotics that increase speed was not touched. Our mobility is directly tied to one of the most important aspects of a hunter which is the dodge. Its forces us to try to obtain the unattainable or chose to go without, the only class who has to make that decision. Hopefully they listen to you because normal gamers go unheard.
In this era, why does LeMonarque get to keep Lightweight benefits while Sunshot and Bad JuJu don’t? If the dev responsible were here to answer that question, I believe they would have no good answer. (It’s great to have you back, dude)
Correction on the TTKs: Aggressive Frame SMGs hitting Tier 8 and higher for resilience have an optimal TTK of 0.75 seconds. Also Target Lock decreases it from a 0.67-0.75 to a 0.58 to 0.67
@@drewskyschannel That is true but there have been corrections as D2Foundry and actual TTK calculations do show the 0.75 second TTK which is consistent. Not trying to be mean about this at all as that's not my intention but to help understand. I do think it is interesting considering the the fact that to get the 0.77 TTK it would have to be a 700 RPM instead of 720 RPM. 750s are 720s in reality so it is interesting to see the numbers off. Also MossyMax who is responsible for damage scaling and finding TTKs did find the average TTK range of Target Lock to be 0.58 to 0.67 seconds which is what I mathematically confirmed too.
@@eri_sister_of_aerial However bungie also mentioned the 0.67/0.77 ttk in the TWAB, so I personally again I find that to be more reputable (and in line with MBP I assume).
Dragon Shadow makes your slide long, like St0mp-335. But only while the perk is active after dodging. So you can be sliding, think you’re going to make it to cover. Nope, haven’t dodged recently enough. Crab walk behind cov- too late. Ded
Titan meta just like last few seasons with citans. Powerful friends / radiant light removal hurts for hunters. Stompee ae nerf sucked too. Thanks for making this video
BxR is a Lightweight in name only. It has a unique version that trades the Mobility boost for the increased hipfire accuracy, so you're not getting the invisible 20 extra stat points from it.
Thank u for making these kinds of videos. There are a lot of people that still say that Hunters are the best in PvP and use it as a excuse to come ver that they are not as good in PvP as they think. Many people has never played Hunter or the 3 subclasses and can’t tell the difference between the three.
I have been a Hunter Main since D1 which I had preordered. So I have been around a long time. That said, I am no PvP Professor and my solution may seem weak, but hey, I like it. Something I have always complained about for years (even did so in a past steam recently) is how we as Hunters are the slowest class despite being THE MOBILITY CLASS. Titans and Warlocks are naturally faster than our sprint speed just by using their Lift/Glide. Strand itself even agrees with me because we get two grapples per charge, a MOBILITY TOOL that can speed us up. I feel a great fix would be for Hunters to get a natural speed boost, similar to Scout from TF2. Think about it, we MUST sacrafice stats into Mobility if we want our class ability (which in itself is a movement tool) to be at its best, yet Titans and Warlocks will still outspeed us and almost always have better Resilience/Recovery than us. We need to dance around the bullets. So let's say for every 10 stats Hunters put into Mobility, they get 2% faster (or 1% if that is too fast). So at 100 Mobility, Hunters get a 20% (or 10%) natural movement boosts for walking, sprinting, and strafing. We are pretty squishy, we should be difficult to hit, we are Hunters! We don't challange Titans to knuckledusting nor Warlocks to ability spamming, we kill with speed and precision, typically from a distance...or at least...that's what my Hunter Spirit has me do. Our signature D1 Armaments even reflect this...remember The Stillpiercer and OUR Ace of Spades? Yeah...exactly.
The whole class identity thing is dead. This is basically what you posted. Why do HUNTERS have best grenade with young ahamkaras spine tripmines. WARLOCKS the GRENADE/ABILITY class don't even have the best grenade in the game. I think warlock grenades should one shot and titans should just have 300 hp to restore class identity to pvp. When I play titan I want to gloriously charge into battle absorbing enemy fire, when I play warlock I want to one shot enemies with my grenades.
@@landonmccabe9233 You not aound for the whole "hand held nova bomb" thing? Warlocks DID have the most powerful gernades untl it got nerfed. And the Shoulder Charge and its branches are still thriving today, just not as easy as being a shotgun ape so you maynot see it as much. Besides, as I sqid, I don't live in PvP. I don't know every little thing. But I do know Hu ters shouldn't be losing Mobility Races to jumping.
@@Ethonra Why does handheld supernova being op like 4 years ago have anything to do with hunters having the best grenades in the game with tripmines atm. I thought that was the warlock thing. Why does shoulder charge relevant in this conversation at all, titans are the tank class they should have more health probably like 240 base because they are the TANK class.
Thanks for offering alternatives and not just bitching lol. I think it's worth trying builds that let you lower recovery tbh, I've had success with it. Using the orb generation mods and fragments with the recuperation legs mods for healing, running graviton forfeit, devour on void hunter (shout-out Cammy double sidearm), grenade kills giving cure and firesprites giving resto on solar hunter (or just using heal nades, whatever), healing and OS from stasis shards, etc.... The list goes on.
Rework idea, get rid of mobility, and link class cool down for hunters to strength or intelligence and give hunters a slight movement speed boost not 40% maybe a 10-15% for all movement speed, and give each class an intrinsic ability like faster recovery after activating a rift and when casting barricade a few seconds of damage resistance as to not get obliterated by a grenade being thrown at them from over the barricade or an overshield that lasts for the cast animation and disappears after the barricade is placed, and have these buffs be pve only since I can see the chaos that would ensue in pvp or decrease the potency
Drewski you need to try the new hunter boots they make hunters on the same playing field as PK titans. I’ve been using acrobat dodge with them and out duelling titans/warlocks via dmg boost,AA,handling,reload & good strafe (100mobility)
@@GMurph2336 gets you back into the fight sooner aswell as the other buffs included. My point is that the new hunter boots makes you and your teammates on a similar power level with PKs
@@Triggerhappylol I wish. PKs passively grant 40 AE, 100 handling and a buff to ready/stow speed to SMGs. ON TOP OF granting +50 mobility, faster ADS movement and the same sprint speed and slide distance as Stompees. Just for holding an SMG. PKs are in a league of their own and Speedloader slacks are a worse dragon’s shadow. Basically ‘On Your Mark’ for the team.
Giving your whole team 10% more damage, 30-50 AE, 40-55 handling , 40-55 reload with 1x-.89 multiplayer for all 3 weapons slots, on a hunter usually running 100 mobility stafe is in par too. Using this exotic allows your teammates to take off PKs to run something anteas ward example making your whole team dynamic that much stronger. Maybe me saying “same” was wrong but the buffs provided to yourself and to teammates is insanely valuable which is a plus over PKs
For the three solutions: 1 - There are no lightweight snipers and it just sucks. I hate having unreliable cooldowns, and I always try to max out strafe speed on my snipers. Dragon's Shadow is nice in theory, but in practice it's often incredibly underwhelming, especially with all the dodge cooldown nerfs we've gotten - die at the wrong time and you're gonna be at a real big disadvantage for a very long time. Plus, the fact that 100% uptime is just impossible now is just annoying. 2 - This is where I've been for a long time. Last Word's been my main weapon for a few years now, with some breaks for various sidearms, and while SMGs can be problematic, they're usually manageable. The 20-25 meter range is still incredibly oppressive right now, though. 3 - There's some of my favorite loadouts, Gemini/Rat King Nightstalker and YAS/Last Word Gunslinger. The invis nerfs hurt a lot, though. You just can't really rely on it for radar manipulation anymore. Gemini's still great, of course, but they'll know you're coming a lot more clearly when their radar is gone than when you're just not on it. Snares are fine, but a lot of players will catch on pretty fast. YAS is still amazing though. Overall, it feels like there's just been a whole lot of small changes and reworks that have gradually made hunter's strengths weaker and weaker, while titans and warlocks have had nerfs, but not so many that really hit the core of the class. The many, _many_ dodge nerfs, the loss of Powerful Friends, the buffs to resilience, the whole AE situation (especially with stompees,) etc. That alongside with other classes getting more and more maneuverable and fast can be a bit tiring. Trying to find a solid stat build is exhausting, because all 3 primary stats are almost mandatory. Such a massive amount of hunter as a class relies on dodge (8/39 exotics interact exclusively with dodge (and a good few more either buff it or rely on it for melee charges,) 7/16 aspects interact directly, (titans have 3, warlocks have 4,) and that doesn't even get into the fact that every single hunter melee build relies on dodge at some point,) so dropping Mobility is awful. Resilience is absurdly stacked right now - PvE DR, flinch resistance, and significant PvP ttk breakpoints. And Recovery is... I mean, it's been meta since day 1, and lowering it is a real pain. Titans and warlocks each have a free stat to dump, all they lose is strafe speed and base jump height - sure, they may be nice, but they're not exactly massive gamechangers. Hunters have to balance everything all at once, or inevitably miss out on something other classes get for free.
It's pretty nutty playing all 3 Guardians! Titan you can use Dunemarchers for general base Mobility Buff or PK's if you're using an SMG. Warlock have T-Steps if you really want Mobility but most are using Dawnblade with Icarus Dash which easily gets around low Mobility. I'm VERY impressed with your Nightstalker Build!! I've been playing Gunslinger with Young Ahamkaras Spines, I want 100 Recovery & Discipline! I don't really want to go under 7 Mobility, which luckily I hit & because of Fragments & Utility Kickstart can definitely make up for the gap. I'm sat at 59 😑 Resilience. It's not terrible tbh, I like that Build Crafting is more important across the whole game but it would be nice to see different ways of getting your Class Ability OR just make them all a set time with no ties to any stat.
the best thing about hunters being at a noticeable dueling disadvantage is how oblivious the other classes are about it. I too found it necessary to use weapons that can put down opponents fast because it's really the only way to compete. I've been using an aggressive fusion with a 20 meter reach and titan/warlock players get so salty about it. They refuse to see that all we have is weapon kill potential in this current sandbox. We can't melee for miles with ophideans and reset on rifts. We can't shoulder charge from narnia and reset a fight with barricades when things go bad. 😂
One build that I used way back in the day for fun in Rumble and a build that I saw Legoleflash push to the extreme is Wishender, Rapid fire Fusion, invis void hunter with Graviton Forfeit. Especially with the recent patch notes on rapid fire fusions this build can only get better
I guess my question is why do you feel dodge is integral to hunters? As you said it doesn't help take map control like rifts or barriers so I mainly use it to help proc other abilites. I run very low mobility and haven't felt the need to invest more points into it.
If you're a real sicko, another way to get around the stats is to use omnioculus. You can absolutely crank your damage resistance, and since you get two melee charges for invis, you don't really have to worry about mobility. Seriously, it's still pretty dumb dumb. As long as you don't break your invis, you can just run right up to people with a sidearm or shotgun and laugh at them cause they just won't put out enough damage to kill you, especially if your resilience is high enough
Finally. I don't understand how people still think hunters are Meta in PvP, imo they haven't been since Icarus dash showed up, although Titans took over most of the time. Barriers give such insane value for such a short cool down.
The entire pvp community as a whole told everyone that resil was useless up until WQ ie titans running 2 resil and 10 mobility, remember? So don’t nerf resil it’s important for game planning in high end pvp Buff mobility to increase sprint speed and slide distance; on top of strafe and jump height. In PvE make it so that high mobility results in less aggressive adds. And while we’re at it rework the movement exotics to just add 30 mobility to characters which will probably lower the usage rates we all know Bungie hates. I guarantee hunters will be happy and we’ll see more exotic varieties in pvp.
sturm drang shits all over smgs even peacekeeper titans, and like you said Traverlers is great too. the gun is op for sure but its an easy counter. also as soon as smg is nerfed players will use sidearms or go back to specials. Hunter is no exception to this rule since strand hunter with immortal is just as strong
Agreed 💯 percent man!!! I have been saying it for awhile now, that Hunters have been left behind in the PvP Meta for quite some time now!! It's also gotten worse this season. Ive been straight struggling to keep up with Titans and Warlocks in PvP this season...I hope something can be done...
@@spicy_xinger EXACTLY!!!!!! OMG! People are always like "der Hunters are fast" lmfao absolutely NOT!!! I am always last to the points in PvP or anywhere in PvE!!! My only chance to keep up is St0mpee head hopping and even that isn't fast enough and requires the perfect obstacles to make that happen. It's pathetic for us Hunters.
I really wish bungie would move hunter dodge to strength or something the other two classes can easily spec into the two most important stats in the game. Recovery and resilience. If hunters want to utilize their class ability like all classes do they have to sacrifice resilience or recovery putting them at a huge disadvantage. So the other two classes can easily 100 the two most important stats and have maximum class ability uptime. If hunters want to do that they have to sacrifice their class ability. It’s very unbalanced in that regard and puts hunters at a disadvantage in both pve and pvp. My hunters low recov in pve is very very noticeable. In pvp the hunters low resilience is very very noticeable. Where when I’m playing on my titan or warlock I can just dominate.
Drewsky, I don't really agree 100% with you on this one. At least not with mouse look. Also a lot of comments from others here are delusional... hunter is not as bad as they make it out to be. Hunter has the best in combat movement with the instant verticality. Yes the ttk thing sucks, but that is moreso an aggressive smg and target lock problem...which is being nerfed. While I do think mobility should also give an additional bonus that is not handling (too good), Hunter having mobility makes it good for strafe duels and makes your initial jump higher for the instant vertical. Hunter also has invisibility in void or the best movement out of the 3 classes in strand. Hunters movement to points on map is slower without skating, but strand makes up for it. On kbm, hunter has primarily been the dominant class for a long time with striker being second. Hunters do not need buffs or class reworks, when smgs gets nerfed I think we will be back to business as usual.
Was looking for a comment like this. Since there are definitely obvious outliers in this meta. Also, I actually had a harder time getting flawless on my main titan then I did with sturm drang on hunter. And when comparing pure loadout diversity b/w all 3 classes I feel like titan has the least amount of viable picks, and not by much but. Once Bungie corrects the smg mistake then sidearms and cqc specials will be back in full force.
Interesting overall but imo underplayed the value of dodges and overvalued the barricades. Dodge can get radiant, invis, reload, fully charge melee abilities, suspend, and multiple functions from exotic armor all on the fastest class ability cooldown to further proc class item mods like bomber or reaper. Barricades are decent for map control but also restrict cast direction, have a much longer cooldown, and not nearly as much functional. The only class enhancements are bastion with has a cooldown comparable to grenades and the suspend blast which is kinda useless. Also multiple nerfs have hit titan barricade exotics leaving very few actual useful options. Thruster is also super overrated as it has 0 functionality and only gets benefits from HOIL which is hardly a PVP powerhouse… I understand the current smg meta being triggering, but way too many people bring up barricades like they haven’t had 6 years to figure out counters. Also I can’t feel bad that hunters no longer get free class specific stats from radiant light. They already get dodge cooldown boosts from just using lightweight weapons
What if hunters just got a static bump to mobility. 50, maybe more. A real rework to the stat would be better but a quick bandaid like this could make getting stats so much better. Mobility could also affect aerial accuracy imo.
Currently, I see titan meatheads and warlocks in their night robes and slippers zooming around the map in pvp with tier 1-3 mobility. There should be a penalty for running low mobility.
Proposal for the class cooldown for all three classes: make the class cooldown tied to your overall total stats in the top half. This allows you to build into what's most important for you while retaining the cooldown bonus to your class ability. This doesn't necessarily make it better/stronger for warlocks/titans, but it would make it more accessible for hunters to keep class cooldown while being able to build into res/rec.
It is absolutely Copium to say that hunters are the worst class in the meta. With the exception zone control trials and regular control hunters have builds on par or better on certain maps then titans. Ahamkaras trip mines are easily on par with Titan builds, dusk field spam is also incredibly powerful. Constant damage with tripmines and the already fast cooldown of stasis make them both get supers comparably fast to bubbles/wells.
Hunter ad clear potential is extremely weak compared to the other classes, Warlocks and Titans can clear a room in a quarter of the time a hunter can. Not to mention the super generation on hunter is extremely slow compared to the other classes (with the exception of strand hunter cause it is slightly faster than strand Warlock and Titan).
I can't tell if this is a hunter problem our a SMG and resilience problem. I think hunters are fine the other two class gives up mobility and the only reason why titan are strong cause SMG favor the peace keepers a lot. Also the fact that hunter dodge is strong still breaks aim assist but warlock rifts still lock them in place and you can destroy titan barricades pretty easily these days, hunter dodge is still better cause it's a evasive option that still can get you out of fights.
Think it's a bit of both, but mainly just how everything has developed in this meta. I'm sure hunters will have other great times when the meta shifts, but for now I'm having to get creative.
Definitely a combo of both a hunter and an smg+resil problem. Titans have a better+lower cooldown dodge on arc and they have far more outplay potential with sentinel. Plus titans overall have a shoulder bash which could be called a great movement ability. Warlocks have wells that allow them to outgun most things short of a point blank shorty/sniper headshot if they hit their shots, they also have Icarus dash which is arguably the best movement ability in the game, and almost all of their supers are shutdown supers that can counter most hunter supers straight up. It’s just difficult to be a hunter because all we really have is young ahamkara, invis, and stasis. Dunno it just feels rly bad to play hunter in this current meta
When playing hunter I keep going for 100 mobility and recovery. I don't care about resilience, it is just 0.1 secs difference. Obviously i get it up to 2 and that is all. Also I am not a top pvp player.
Titans rule PVP. Warlocks rule PVE. Both have better movement abilities than Hunters. Stompees is the only thing that helps even the odds at the cost of an exotic slot and 50 air accuracy.
Some changes that could help instead of having to rely on bandage fixes: -A complete rework of the intellect stat, instead of it giving super cdr it would give class ability cdr, this way everybody has to build into their class ability. -Another change is that every class could have a passive +50 to their class-specific stat; it wouldn't fix the problem since res and recov are still far better than mobility but it would help. -Yet another change, the easiest and most logical one, would be to make mobility an actually desirable stat; it could give: AE, sprint speed, ability jump effectiveness, slide distance, handling and or reload, etc...
Excuse The hell out of me? Have you not used seals?? Hunters are Really good, and so is strand hunter. Idk dawg but I Love my hunter. More fun I've had in a while
Resilience shouldn't be a stat that is affected in pvp to be honest base 200hp across the board for all classes
ya its bs it literally changes the ttk of some weapons
This.
😂 why have any stats then? 😂
so just fuck titans then lol?
It adds consistency to every gun in pvp.
So Drewsky, inspired by your last vid I tried out 8/7/8 with a lightweight AND Font mods. Making orbs is more deterministic now, so on orb pickup you can get max stats for at least 10 seconds - that’s long enough to get the benefits from full 10 rec. If you min to 5 rec, a Font boost to recovery would get you 10 sec of 8 rec, which is long enough to get the benefits of 8 rec.
There is also one catch about sidearms and The Last Word: Sidearms typically have an average range bandth of 14 to 17 meters where as The Last Word starts damage dropoff at the 16-17 meter mark.
What is making The Immortal a problem as a weapon is it powercreeping stats, its SMG frame, Rangefinder (FINALLY GETTING NERFED FOR SURE), and Target Lock but not so much with target lock now due to it being less forgiving now on missed shots
Fantastic video Drewsky. Well thought out and clear to understand for players of all skill levels. Seriously, one of the best videos I've seen on any Destiny channel in a while. Well done!
Dude for real
This is the best hunter PvP video I've ever seen . I always tell everyone in Firing range drewsky is the most powerful .
I think mobility needs to change. Right now the two other classes can completely ignore mobility, still be faster AND have a form of dodge. Yes you can have faster strafe speed, but honestly, it is so pointless against good players. IMO mobility needs to control sprint speed and slide distance, tier 10 being what stompees/transversives give you right now. Since D2 launch Warlocks and Titans only had 5 stats to focus on, while Hunters had to balance all 6 to be competitive.
The core of PvP is aim and more importantly movement, which is why Transversives and Stompees are the most used exotics (unless something is broken, like Omni). By being able to spec into actual Mobility, you can experiment with other exotics. If you use anything but stompees today you will feel like a snail, and every other class will be able to rotate around the map MUCH faster than you, even if you max mobility.
Transversives are not as highly used as ophidians, mainly due to the bonuses of ophidians being higher than just slide and speed. But i use ophidians because in close quarters i never win against a hunter. Up close they are a rubber band
Agreed. I use to main YAS & foetracers. But since I tried out stompees, can’t take them off cause of how slow I feel without them. Whole comment 👍🏽
@@terrelldurocher3330 Learning blink on void or arcstrider is a VERY strong tool in cqc. I strongly believe it is very much underrated.
@@skywardbutterknife7905 meh cqc with d2 blink kinda sucks. You can pull off a blink be 15 meters away and still die to a melee. If you like jumping in cqc Stompee Hunter jump is the best there’s no debate.
Absolutely.
Makes no sense to me that tier 10 mobility hunters are still slower than Titans and Warlocks on lower tiers.
Higher tier mobility investment could benefit all classes, you just have to invest in the stat if that playstyle benefits you.
i just wanted to comment me and my buddy played you on the burnout and you just broke all of the ankles with your invis and movement good shit and gg's man
Super thoughtful video, I appreciate the approach you take to this particular topic as an opportunity to grow and improve as a player rather than letting negativity run rampant.
Also, fashion is on point.
4:40 I think it's a stretch to consider rifts as "area control." They're almost the opposite; area control denies your opponents' movement into an area. With Rifts you deny *yourself* movement by committing to an area.
I'm confused what you mean, suggesting that Warlock Rifts allow you to challenge supers. Surely Dodge is better for this than Rift?
Well of Radiance is a fantastic tool for taking objectives as you get monstrous amounts of rapid healing and a great damage boost making it suicide to push a well in control objectives. Snipers are generally the best tool to remove a well of radiance.
The only subclass I'm able to use in order to make up the primary stat gap is Stasis and that's only because, as the prototype "build your own subclass," Bungie loaded it with stat boosts. The loss of Powerful Friends is huge.
I thought so too but D2armorpicker it’ll optimize armor piece for your desired stat values
@@darthode Yes, I use it. Some of the builds even use Artifice armor. Every build that isn't Stasis loses 20 or more points in Recovery compared to what I can get *in* Stasis.
It's annoying.
Bro before I even finish the video, it’s so nice that you posted this because I’ve been trying my best to figure out what class im gonna main to optimize me time. Since I no longer can play all three classes, it’d be nice to see what ur thoughts are on hunter for PvE as well . Cheers Ycs Drew
Edited* just corrected “it’s nice to see what ur thoughts are on PvE” to id be nice.
As a hunter main I’ve been dumping recov and i think it hasn’t been as bad as people think. You have to play a little more conservatively right after a fight but you get used to it
You could also use the health hat to offset some loss and other such tricks, presumably.
Sounds good but titans will suffer in pvp instead of hunters in pve through their barricade cooldown
It isn’t surviving that is as much the problem, it’s the downtime. In a game like destiny higher apm directly translates to better play. Whenever you stop and have to recover, that hurts your apm.
In pvp this means the enemy has time to move up on you and take space in favorable positions since you can’t fight.
And in pve this means a lot of times you have a much harder time handling the endless tide of ads being thrown in your face, unless you have a healing option prepared. In pve it is more manageable but not having to worry as much about downtime goes a long way in making your job easier. In the end mobility is just booty cheeks.
I’ve been running 9/6/9/6/6/6. I’m not maxing* out any of my stats but I find that most of them are high enough to where it feels really good and consistent. Of course I had triple 100’s last season. Rip.
Yeah the stat distribution for Hunter is really what hurts us the most, it's manageable or really not so relevant in PVE (but it still bugs me minmax-wise). But in PVP it's truly backbreaking. I've recently decided to gut my Recov in favor of more Resil and it's worked better for me. FEELS WIERD to have 50-80 Recov, and 70 Resil but I mean I can get used to it. Or not I dunno, I might go back to 2 resil and 100 recov.
For zone control I find Stasis to still be competitive, or trips.
I'll keep saying it though, I reaaaally think Mobility should be given the Resil gives Flinch resist treatment now, where Mob could give handling or whatever just to make it worth it. I dunno, something needs to be done to make Mobility worth something, to a point where even Titan or Warlock might want Mobility (they won;t, but it can make them think about).
Big agree on giving Mobility the Resil treatment.
thank God someone with an audience brought attention to the stalemate situation for Hunters, it's about time we receive a buff at least in PvP. I hate being forced to spec into mobility, resilience AND recovery to be able to play a match without being handicapped when the rest of the classes don't need to spec into mobility
Don't worry Bungie is gonna nerf Stompees next patch once again, just so that Hunters are completely unplayable. Worst main stat and soon worst movement exotic. Time to practice Warlock.
They should make strength spec with hunter class abilities or intellect and give hunters a minor movement speed buff and give intrinsic buffs to the other classes, then it would be fair for everyone
@@Tc4c3nc0 man, the fact that the "agile, movement" class has the worst movement in the game is fucking sad and baffling, because even titans have a shorter cooldown arc dodge, AND they can spam shoulder charge for mobility without penalty, AND warlocks have Icarus or Heat Rises on top of their class's proficiencies
@@robertgray3710 a good "rework" for mobility would be like a dodge chance on PvE damage like on other games, and definitely something else for PvP because the dodge 1. doesn't break aim assist 2. is on a very long cooldown 3. doesn't give i-frames
@@HoveyTheHallowed "BuT hUnTeRs CaN jUmP oVeR yOu" - Bungie decided to listen to players that can't look up and players that get farmed every single game.
I've been playing hunter since d1 but recently I've been playing way more warlock because it just feels so much better
In terms of weapons crimson is worth a mention as per it healing on kills you can negate recovery on your stats and put it all into resilience instead (something I often do) Also if using wormhusk crown exotic Ill tend to forego a bit of recovery
The amount of frustrating times where a bitch titan pop an over shield barricade.
Something you didn’t mention was graviton forfeit, while dumping recov sounds terrible if you max mobility and resilience, turning invisible with either your dodge, smoke, or rat king to bring your recovery to practically 10
True!
Blink hunter can easily break target lock and create distance. It also allows you to close the gap with these stronger smgs with shotguns and potentially clean up with a melee that restores full health and dodge. Arc staff is only countered by one super, and that is chaos reach if you run raiju's. I dont find the need to crutch on a movement exotic with blink so I run raiju's to absolutely wipe supers and clean up the entire team with ease sometimes twice over. Blinding nades also allow you to temporarily disable radar, allowing the hunter class that is associated with rogues in most rpgs to sneak up on opponents and take them out.
If only arc on hunter was fun but is meh
That only works in 6vs6, you arent getting your super before other classes do. Also let me introduce ARC titan to you can literally do EVERYTHING better than Arc hunter, except blink, which is a gimmick and doesnt work vs good players.
@@jormungandr4690 fun fact. Arc hunter can easily shut down arc titan by creating space. Blink allows you to break cover and move to other parts of the map that isnt typically accessible with normal jumps. The utility of arc hunter also allows them to not spec fully into mobility, as blink is the fastest movement option in the game, and an aspect improves the regen rate of class ability with sprinting. This allows you to put important points into resilience.
@@rainbowhippos9035 still the hunter need to invest on something the other 2 doesn’t need to. They will have more points for other abilities. Is not that the hunter is not strong is just that the hunter need to be more careful in the distribution
Arc hunter has the least useful tools inside of crucible out of all the hunter subclasses.
My problem with all of these solutions, and I agree that they are solutions, somewhat, is that there is a tradeoff with every single one of them where titans and warlocks don't really have any trade offs with their best builds in this current meta. Dragons shadow has fallen off because of the dodge cooldown nerfs, you used to be able to have infinite uptime with wraithmetal mail before they nerfed the hell out of dodges. And now you have around 7 seconds where you're just left feeling slow as hell when the perk runs out. Void hunter got hit way too hard with the radar changes and makes flanking way harder than it used to be and it kind of just ruined the class for me since radar is so important and now you're left with a massive handicap when using the class's identity. Last word just isn't good on M&K. I found that sidearms can work well against Immortal users but trying to play up close against a titan with peacekeepers and knockout is just a fucking nightmare. I just bit the bullet and stopped maining hunter after the stompees nerf and switched to solar warlock. I now have better AE, I'm faster in nearly every single way, I can deal with titans in close quarters because I have Icarus dash and Ophidians. Hunter just isn't fun anymore and it makes me sad.
Well you're doing the right thing - hunter is never going to be buffed if it consistently the most picked class.
I use void hunter and honestly. I like the changes because it greatly increases the skill ceiling. I'm still able to greatly influence maps with radar manip and flanks despite the nerfs.
Me, who still loves hunter swaping faster than any ophidians warlock with 30 handling shotgun. (Stran)
The. I'm running Arc Hunter, almost 1 taping of poor warlocks and titans with my melee very fast evade, very amazing handling, because new boots are amazing
The only way I'm able to make Void work effectively is to run Gyrfalcon + Repulsor Brace Hero's Burden (Hero's Burden specifically because of Skulking Wolf).
Honestly if they just gave mobility some intrinsic benefit outside of a walk/jump bonus, it would help. No other class needs to spec into all three main stats. Not sure what it should do, but something would be really helpful.
Sprint speed and slide distance. That is all it needs to do. Now there is a trade off for not having mobility AND you can experiment with new exotics since you dont have to use stompees/transversives.
Honestly I run blink hunter and it still feels pretty strong still, if your having issues with hunter in crucible I would recommend giving it a try!
Having played all 3 classes for a decent while (hunter main) I genuinely don’t understand how ppl say hunters are the best class in the game bc they’re the most used. Coolest/edgiest? Sure. Best? Not when we have to sacrifice stats and are arguably the least mobile class. We have our strengths sure, but they’re not as strong as the other classes strengths.
As a Warlock during Y1 who was forced to run atleast 4 recov due to the armour 1.0 system, as a Titan during shadowkeep era that now had to run near max resilience if I wanted to do my class role and as you a Hunter during this Immortal era not being able to reasonably deal with immortal because you need to run mobility just so you can use your subclasses, can Bungie rework the intellect stat into class ability cooldown already? This shit is so annoying. Also, while they're at it, maybe Bungie can look into Titan skating and Warlock surfing, especially Warlock surfing with higher FPS. It doesn't really make sense that running lower mobility let's you move faster.
Anyway, thanks for the vid Drew, I'm glad somebody brought this up.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP! The warlock and the titan are just as agile if not more than a hunter. Stompees are the only exotic that increase movement speed that are penalized heavily. The titans or warlock exotics that increase speed was not touched. Our mobility is directly tied to one of the most important aspects of a hunter which is the dodge. Its forces us to try to obtain the unattainable or chose to go without, the only class who has to make that decision. Hopefully they listen to you because normal gamers go unheard.
Remove the mobility buff from peacekeepers. Keep the strafe modifier. Maybe lower it to moving target level.
I like Bakris on hunter even if it limits you to only using stasis
Yeah, it’s gets you in close for a quick strike or dodge around a corner to stay alive!
I run 3 resil on all my crucible builds and it works just fine for me.
In this era, why does LeMonarque get to keep Lightweight benefits while Sunshot and Bad JuJu don’t? If the dev responsible were here to answer that question, I believe they would have no good answer. (It’s great to have you back, dude)
Or outbreak perfected
Correction on the TTKs:
Aggressive Frame SMGs hitting Tier 8 and higher for resilience have an optimal TTK of 0.75 seconds. Also Target Lock decreases it from a 0.67-0.75 to a 0.58 to 0.67
According to the MBP spreadsheet, its the numbers I mentioned, and I believe that to be the most reputable source.
@@drewskyschannel That is true but there have been corrections as D2Foundry and actual TTK calculations do show the 0.75 second TTK which is consistent. Not trying to be mean about this at all as that's not my intention but to help understand. I do think it is interesting considering the the fact that to get the 0.77 TTK it would have to be a 700 RPM instead of 720 RPM. 750s are 720s in reality so it is interesting to see the numbers off.
Also MossyMax who is responsible for damage scaling and finding TTKs did find the average TTK range of Target Lock to be 0.58 to 0.67 seconds which is what I mathematically confirmed too.
@@eri_sister_of_aerial However bungie also mentioned the 0.67/0.77 ttk in the TWAB, so I personally again I find that to be more reputable (and in line with MBP I assume).
@@drewskyschannel Yeah but MossyMax is in MBP and frequently helps them too so there is that.
Dragon Shadow makes your slide long, like St0mp-335. But only while the perk is active after dodging. So you can be sliding, think you’re going to make it to cover. Nope, haven’t dodged recently enough. Crab walk behind cov- too late. Ded
I've forgone recov and have been rocking a 8/8/5/10 build that's worked pretty good in 6's
Titan meta just like last few seasons with citans. Powerful friends / radiant light removal hurts for hunters. Stompee ae nerf sucked too. Thanks for making this video
i played with you in solo trials last week, i was wondering why you were using BxR im assuming its because of the lightweight bonus?
he's just a huge fan of the gun since it's a halo homage. it's a good gun too, just not meta.
BxR doesn’t offer a lightweight bonus
BxR is a Lightweight in name only. It has a unique version that trades the Mobility boost for the increased hipfire accuracy, so you're not getting the invisible 20 extra stat points from it.
@@TheLegendaryLegacy never knew that thanks
@@shinybeast it's a good gun yeah, kinda hard to use in this current meta mostly because we got some pretty good pulse rifles this season
Thank u for making these kinds of videos. There are a lot of people that still say that Hunters are the best in PvP and use it as a excuse to come ver that they are not as good in PvP as they think. Many people has never played Hunter or the 3 subclasses and can’t tell the difference between the three.
Three subclasses?
Thats actually perfect, because it is a dead give away that their SBMM is fucking low and they have no clue what they are talking about
@@ramudon2428 no, the 3 Destiny games.
@@antgonz4436 was thinking since there's 5.
@@ramudon2428 they I should have said type of characters, Hunters, Warlocks, Titans, 3.
I have been a Hunter Main since D1 which I had preordered. So I have been around a long time. That said, I am no PvP Professor and my solution may seem weak, but hey, I like it.
Something I have always complained about for years (even did so in a past steam recently) is how we as Hunters are the slowest class despite being THE MOBILITY CLASS. Titans and Warlocks are naturally faster than our sprint speed just by using their Lift/Glide. Strand itself even agrees with me because we get two grapples per charge, a MOBILITY TOOL that can speed us up. I feel a great fix would be for Hunters to get a natural speed boost, similar to Scout from TF2. Think about it, we MUST sacrafice stats into Mobility if we want our class ability (which in itself is a movement tool) to be at its best, yet Titans and Warlocks will still outspeed us and almost always have better Resilience/Recovery than us. We need to dance around the bullets. So let's say for every 10 stats Hunters put into Mobility, they get 2% faster (or 1% if that is too fast). So at 100 Mobility, Hunters get a 20% (or 10%) natural movement boosts for walking, sprinting, and strafing. We are pretty squishy, we should be difficult to hit, we are Hunters! We don't challange Titans to knuckledusting nor Warlocks to ability spamming, we kill with speed and precision, typically from a distance...or at least...that's what my Hunter Spirit has me do. Our signature D1 Armaments even reflect this...remember The Stillpiercer and OUR Ace of Spades? Yeah...exactly.
The whole class identity thing is dead.
This is basically what you posted.
Why do HUNTERS have best grenade with young ahamkaras spine tripmines. WARLOCKS the GRENADE/ABILITY class don't even have the best grenade in the game. I think warlock grenades should one shot and titans should just have 300 hp to restore class identity to pvp. When I play titan I want to gloriously charge into battle absorbing enemy fire, when I play warlock I want to one shot enemies with my grenades.
@@landonmccabe9233 You not aound for the whole "hand held nova bomb" thing? Warlocks DID have the most powerful gernades untl it got nerfed. And the Shoulder Charge and its branches are still thriving today, just not as easy as being a shotgun ape so you maynot see it as much. Besides, as I sqid, I don't live in PvP. I don't know every little thing. But I do know Hu ters shouldn't be losing Mobility Races to jumping.
Were you not around for when hunters had shatterdive for over a year and were at a 43% pick rate in trials.
@@landonmccabe9233 Yep, I was. But that has nothing to do with Mobility. And?
@@Ethonra Why does handheld supernova being op like 4 years ago have anything to do with hunters having the best grenades in the game with tripmines atm. I thought that was the warlock thing. Why does shoulder charge relevant in this conversation at all, titans are the tank class they should have more health probably like 240 base because they are the TANK class.
radar manip with monarque + sidearm is llegit tthe most fun loadout, give it a shot drewsky
Please stop using le monarque
Thanks for offering alternatives and not just bitching lol. I think it's worth trying builds that let you lower recovery tbh, I've had success with it. Using the orb generation mods and fragments with the recuperation legs mods for healing, running graviton forfeit, devour on void hunter (shout-out Cammy double sidearm), grenade kills giving cure and firesprites giving resto on solar hunter (or just using heal nades, whatever), healing and OS from stasis shards, etc.... The list goes on.
Mobility should give AE just to be fair
Thanks Drew really looking forward to your builds.
Rework idea, get rid of mobility, and link class cool down for hunters to strength or intelligence and give hunters a slight movement speed boost not 40% maybe a 10-15% for all movement speed, and give each class an intrinsic ability like faster recovery after activating a rift and when casting barricade a few seconds of damage resistance as to not get obliterated by a grenade being thrown at them from over the barricade or an overshield that lasts for the cast animation and disappears after the barricade is placed, and have these buffs be pve only since I can see the chaos that would ensue in pvp or decrease the potency
I'm glad you're back at making content.
If hunters are at the bottom, why are Titans the least used class this weekend in Trials with cap point enabled?
Ligma vigil and buzzard slap, and Mechaneer’s amplify them like Peacekeepers do to SMGs
Ok. So I need confirmation on this. Le Monarque is the same as a light weight weapon when equipped? It give plus 20 plus mobility?
Drewski you need to try the new hunter boots they make hunters on the same playing field as PK titans. I’ve been using acrobat dodge with them and out duelling titans/warlocks via dmg boost,AA,handling,reload & good strafe (100mobility)
How does reloading faster make you on the same playing field as something as strong as PKs?
@@GMurph2336 gets you back into the fight sooner aswell as the other buffs included. My point is that the new hunter boots makes you and your teammates on a similar power level with PKs
@@Triggerhappylol I wish. PKs passively grant 40 AE, 100 handling and a buff to ready/stow speed to SMGs. ON TOP OF granting +50 mobility, faster ADS movement and the same sprint speed and slide distance as Stompees. Just for holding an SMG. PKs are in a league of their own and Speedloader slacks are a worse dragon’s shadow. Basically ‘On Your Mark’ for the team.
@@GMurph2336 dragon shadow fits a different more selfish approach & fits a different play style I get why your comparing it to speed loaders
Giving your whole team 10% more damage, 30-50 AE, 40-55 handling , 40-55 reload with 1x-.89 multiplayer for all 3 weapons slots, on a hunter usually running 100 mobility stafe is in par too. Using this exotic allows your teammates to take off PKs to run something anteas ward example making your whole team dynamic that much stronger. Maybe me saying “same” was wrong but the buffs provided to yourself and to teammates is insanely valuable which is a plus over PKs
Cap
Nice to see a streamer still at rank 6. Makes me not giving a shit about it feel better.
For the three solutions:
1 - There are no lightweight snipers and it just sucks. I hate having unreliable cooldowns, and I always try to max out strafe speed on my snipers. Dragon's Shadow is nice in theory, but in practice it's often incredibly underwhelming, especially with all the dodge cooldown nerfs we've gotten - die at the wrong time and you're gonna be at a real big disadvantage for a very long time. Plus, the fact that 100% uptime is just impossible now is just annoying.
2 - This is where I've been for a long time. Last Word's been my main weapon for a few years now, with some breaks for various sidearms, and while SMGs can be problematic, they're usually manageable. The 20-25 meter range is still incredibly oppressive right now, though.
3 - There's some of my favorite loadouts, Gemini/Rat King Nightstalker and YAS/Last Word Gunslinger. The invis nerfs hurt a lot, though. You just can't really rely on it for radar manipulation anymore. Gemini's still great, of course, but they'll know you're coming a lot more clearly when their radar is gone than when you're just not on it. Snares are fine, but a lot of players will catch on pretty fast. YAS is still amazing though.
Overall, it feels like there's just been a whole lot of small changes and reworks that have gradually made hunter's strengths weaker and weaker, while titans and warlocks have had nerfs, but not so many that really hit the core of the class. The many, _many_ dodge nerfs, the loss of Powerful Friends, the buffs to resilience, the whole AE situation (especially with stompees,) etc. That alongside with other classes getting more and more maneuverable and fast can be a bit tiring.
Trying to find a solid stat build is exhausting, because all 3 primary stats are almost mandatory. Such a massive amount of hunter as a class relies on dodge (8/39 exotics interact exclusively with dodge (and a good few more either buff it or rely on it for melee charges,) 7/16 aspects interact directly, (titans have 3, warlocks have 4,) and that doesn't even get into the fact that every single hunter melee build relies on dodge at some point,) so dropping Mobility is awful. Resilience is absurdly stacked right now - PvE DR, flinch resistance, and significant PvP ttk breakpoints. And Recovery is... I mean, it's been meta since day 1, and lowering it is a real pain.
Titans and warlocks each have a free stat to dump, all they lose is strafe speed and base jump height - sure, they may be nice, but they're not exactly massive gamechangers. Hunters have to balance everything all at once, or inevitably miss out on something other classes get for free.
It's pretty nutty playing all 3 Guardians!
Titan you can use Dunemarchers for general base Mobility Buff or PK's if you're using an SMG.
Warlock have T-Steps if you really want Mobility but most are using Dawnblade with Icarus Dash which easily gets around low Mobility.
I'm VERY impressed with your Nightstalker Build!! I've been playing Gunslinger with Young Ahamkaras Spines, I want 100 Recovery & Discipline! I don't really want to go under 7 Mobility, which luckily I hit & because of Fragments & Utility Kickstart can definitely make up for the gap. I'm sat at 59 😑 Resilience. It's not terrible tbh, I like that Build Crafting is more important across the whole game but it would be nice to see different ways of getting your Class Ability OR just make them all a set time with no ties to any stat.
You can’t honestly say all “Aggressive Frame” SMG’s because it’s only 3 SMGs people are using.
I though it was just me lol . Looking forward to the build videos . As well as an update to a khepri sting build by you or cammy .
Thank god for Rose. We have a legendary lightweight HC again
the best thing about hunters being at a noticeable dueling disadvantage is how oblivious the other classes are about it. I too found it necessary to use weapons that can put down opponents fast because it's really the only way to compete. I've been using an aggressive fusion with a 20 meter reach and titan/warlock players get so salty about it. They refuse to see that all we have is weapon kill potential in this current sandbox. We can't melee for miles with ophideans and reset on rifts. We can't shoulder charge from narnia and reset a fight with barricades when things go bad. 😂
That snowcamo Hunter look👌🏻
One build that I used way back in the day for fun in Rumble and a build that I saw Legoleflash push to the extreme is Wishender, Rapid fire Fusion, invis void hunter with Graviton Forfeit.
Especially with the recent patch notes on rapid fire fusions this build can only get better
Anywhere I can find your last word /lucky pants build ? With fragments/mods ?
Thank u. I’ve been saying that since this since they change all this resilience thing. I would be a hunter main if warlocks wasnt so insanly op.
I guess my question is why do you feel dodge is integral to hunters? As you said it doesn't help take map control like rifts or barriers so I mainly use it to help proc other abilites. I run very low mobility and haven't felt the need to invest more points into it.
Nothing can change my mind that warlock is currently the worst pvp class
returning player here: how can i farm good stat rolls for exotics such as lucky pants? legendary lost sectors dont drop every exotic right?
Lol my buddy says the same thing. Hunter has been all I’ve played this season after maining a titan lol.
Does BXR not get the lightweight bonus? Great video!
If you're a real sicko, another way to get around the stats is to use omnioculus. You can absolutely crank your damage resistance, and since you get two melee charges for invis, you don't really have to worry about mobility. Seriously, it's still pretty dumb dumb. As long as you don't break your invis, you can just run right up to people with a sidearm or shotgun and laugh at them cause they just won't put out enough damage to kill you, especially if your resilience is high enough
Thanks for the vid brother
Just stop tying class cooldowns to specific stats and give every ability a fixed cooldown. In PvP at least.
Finally. I don't understand how people still think hunters are Meta in PvP, imo they haven't been since Icarus dash showed up, although Titans took over most of the time. Barriers give such insane value for such a short cool down.
The entire pvp community as a whole told everyone that resil was useless up until WQ ie titans running 2 resil and 10 mobility, remember? So don’t nerf resil it’s important for game planning in high end pvp
Buff mobility to increase sprint speed and slide distance; on top of strafe and jump height. In PvE make it so that high mobility results in less aggressive adds. And while we’re at it rework the movement exotics to just add 30 mobility to characters which will probably lower the usage rates we all know Bungie hates. I guarantee hunters will be happy and we’ll see more exotic varieties in pvp.
sturm drang shits all over smgs even peacekeeper titans, and like you said Traverlers is great too. the gun is op for sure but its an easy counter. also as soon as smg is nerfed players will use sidearms or go back to specials. Hunter is no exception to this rule since strand hunter with immortal is just as strong
As a fellow Drew, I approve this video
Agreed 💯 percent man!!! I have been saying it for awhile now, that Hunters have been left behind in the PvP Meta for quite some time now!! It's also gotten worse this season. Ive been straight struggling to keep up with Titans and Warlocks in PvP this season...I hope something can be done...
slowest class in the game despite maxing mobility lmao
@@spicy_xinger EXACTLY!!!!!! OMG! People are always like "der Hunters are fast" lmfao absolutely NOT!!! I am always last to the points in PvP or anywhere in PvE!!! My only chance to keep up is St0mpee head hopping and even that isn't fast enough and requires the perfect obstacles to make that happen. It's pathetic for us Hunters.
Im a Titan main and I feel like resilience shouldn’t change health pools in pvp. It should just grant a larger flinch reduction.
I was thinking about something like woven mail, 1% reduced bodyshot damage taken per tier of resilience
@inflatable fish it does give flinch reduction
I disagree.
I really wish bungie would move hunter dodge to strength or something the other two classes can easily spec into the two most important stats in the game. Recovery and resilience. If hunters want to utilize their class ability like all classes do they have to sacrifice resilience or recovery putting them at a huge disadvantage. So the other two classes can easily 100 the two most important stats and have maximum class ability uptime. If hunters want to do that they have to sacrifice their class ability. It’s very unbalanced in that regard and puts hunters at a disadvantage in both pve and pvp. My hunters low recov in pve is very very noticeable. In pvp the hunters low resilience is very very noticeable. Where when I’m playing on my titan or warlock I can just dominate.
Another Drew banger
Drewsky, I don't really agree 100% with you on this one. At least not with mouse look. Also a lot of comments from others here are delusional... hunter is not as bad as they make it out to be. Hunter has the best in combat movement with the instant verticality. Yes the ttk thing sucks, but that is moreso an aggressive smg and target lock problem...which is being nerfed. While I do think mobility should also give an additional bonus that is not handling (too good), Hunter having mobility makes it good for strafe duels and makes your initial jump higher for the instant vertical. Hunter also has invisibility in void or the best movement out of the 3 classes in strand. Hunters movement to points on map is slower without skating, but strand makes up for it. On kbm, hunter has primarily been the dominant class for a long time with striker being second. Hunters do not need buffs or class reworks, when smgs gets nerfed I think we will be back to business as usual.
Was looking for a comment like this. Since there are definitely obvious outliers in this meta. Also, I actually had a harder time getting flawless on my main titan then I did with sturm drang on hunter. And when comparing pure loadout diversity b/w all 3 classes I feel like titan has the least amount of viable picks, and not by much but. Once Bungie corrects the smg mistake then sidearms and cqc specials will be back in full force.
thank you im tired of people saying I'm downplaying hunters, they suck while i titans can just run around doing brain dead stuff
Make mobility tied to AE like how resil is tied to flinch
Interesting overall but imo underplayed the value of dodges and overvalued the barricades. Dodge can get radiant, invis, reload, fully charge melee abilities, suspend, and multiple functions from exotic armor all on the fastest class ability cooldown to further proc class item mods like bomber or reaper. Barricades are decent for map control but also restrict cast direction, have a much longer cooldown, and not nearly as much functional. The only class enhancements are bastion with has a cooldown comparable to grenades and the suspend blast which is kinda useless. Also multiple nerfs have hit titan barricade exotics leaving very few actual useful options. Thruster is also super overrated as it has 0 functionality and only gets benefits from HOIL which is hardly a PVP powerhouse… I understand the current smg meta being triggering, but way too many people bring up barricades like they haven’t had 6 years to figure out counters.
Also I can’t feel bad that hunters no longer get free class specific stats from radiant light. They already get dodge cooldown boosts from just using lightweight weapons
What if hunters just got a static bump to mobility. 50, maybe more. A real rework to the stat would be better but a quick bandaid like this could make getting stats so much better. Mobility could also affect aerial accuracy imo.
Currently, I see titan meatheads and warlocks in their night robes and slippers zooming around the map in pvp with tier 1-3 mobility.
There should be a penalty for running low mobility.
Proposal for the class cooldown for all three classes: make the class cooldown tied to your overall total stats in the top half. This allows you to build into what's most important for you while retaining the cooldown bonus to your class ability. This doesn't necessarily make it better/stronger for warlocks/titans, but it would make it more accessible for hunters to keep class cooldown while being able to build into res/rec.
Striker titan with thrusters. I use to main hunter. Striker titan thrusters work better than hunter dodge
And this is why Bungie taking away the powerful friends mobility bonus was DUMB AF
It is absolutely Copium to say that hunters are the worst class in the meta. With the exception zone control trials and regular control hunters have builds on par or better on certain maps then titans. Ahamkaras trip mines are easily on par with Titan builds, dusk field spam is also incredibly powerful. Constant damage with tripmines and the already fast cooldown of stasis make them both get supers comparably fast to bubbles/wells.
Unpopular opinion, but resilience should not be a factor in PvP. Let the TTK be the TTK. Overshields, rifts and barricades already effect TTKs
I have a Titan Arc Gundam build that has 6 T6s and I've done well with it
Still not sure why stompees nukes airborne still. Could bungie do something about ophidian aspect tho, it does way too much
I have noticed that when getting kills and stuff that people still charge sup faster
Hunter ad clear potential is extremely weak compared to the other classes, Warlocks and Titans can clear a room in a quarter of the time a hunter can. Not to mention the super generation on hunter is extremely slow compared to the other classes (with the exception of strand hunter cause it is slightly faster than strand Warlock and Titan).
Based
+ as always you have to work your fingers harder on a hunter then other classes.
The time of man is over. The time of Ape has come!
wait wait....LeMon counts as lightweight??
I can't tell if this is a hunter problem our a SMG and resilience problem. I think hunters are fine the other two class gives up mobility and the only reason why titan are strong cause SMG favor the peace keepers a lot. Also the fact that hunter dodge is strong still breaks aim assist but warlock rifts still lock them in place and you can destroy titan barricades pretty easily these days, hunter dodge is still better cause it's a evasive option that still can get you out of fights.
Think it's a bit of both, but mainly just how everything has developed in this meta. I'm sure hunters will have other great times when the meta shifts, but for now I'm having to get creative.
Definitely a combo of both a hunter and an smg+resil problem. Titans have a better+lower cooldown dodge on arc and they have far more outplay potential with sentinel. Plus titans overall have a shoulder bash which could be called a great movement ability. Warlocks have wells that allow them to outgun most things short of a point blank shorty/sniper headshot if they hit their shots, they also have Icarus dash which is arguably the best movement ability in the game, and almost all of their supers are shutdown supers that can counter most hunter supers straight up. It’s just difficult to be a hunter because all we really have is young ahamkara, invis, and stasis. Dunno it just feels rly bad to play hunter in this current meta
Hunter doge doesn't break AA anymore
@@tacoboy2218 hunter dodge still breaks aa lol if they dodge your guns shots aren't hitting them anymore XD
@@Sir_glizzius Nah you are just dogshit. they removed AA breaking on dodge like a year ago
Great vid dog. I feel like hunters take too much skill so I’ll keep my stag arc warlock and lane with my dad rifle😂
Give Powerful Friends to Hunters hahahah
When playing hunter I keep going for 100 mobility and recovery. I don't care about resilience, it is just 0.1 secs difference. Obviously i get it up to 2 and that is all. Also I am not a top pvp player.
Titans rule PVP. Warlocks rule PVE. Both have better movement abilities than Hunters. Stompees is the only thing that helps even the odds at the cost of an exotic slot and 50 air accuracy.
Only till next patch, then stompees will be a worse Dragons Shadow :) So you can either unbind dodge or change class.
Some changes that could help instead of having to rely on bandage fixes:
-A complete rework of the intellect stat, instead of it giving super cdr it would give class ability cdr, this way everybody has to build into their class ability.
-Another change is that every class could have a passive +50 to their class-specific stat; it wouldn't fix the problem since res and recov are still far better than mobility but it would help.
-Yet another change, the easiest and most logical one, would be to make mobility an actually desirable stat; it could give: AE, sprint speed, ability jump effectiveness, slide distance, handling and or reload, etc...
Excuse The hell out of me? Have you not used seals?? Hunters are Really good, and so is strand hunter. Idk dawg but I Love my hunter. More fun I've had in a while