Testing Lapua Center X vs. SK Rifle Match 22lr ammo in RimX
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2022
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Excellent video, as always. Very informative and thorough. Thank you.
John doing shooting it's the kind of videos i love, thanks John !!!
Excited to see you doing some rime fire. I started shooting ARA last year and really enjoy it. Alwasy looking for rim fire content...
Would love to see more 22 content.
Don't worry, plenty more coming.
Thanks for taking us with. Maybe a little more tuning with the favorite ammo could have made it better. I look forward to the match.
Your targets mirror my experience when switching ammo brands between Fiocchi and SK red box.
IIRC, about two clicks did it. My other shooting buddies had similar results, and those that went with Eley ammo wound up scrubbing and seasoning their barrels because of the lube.
There is much satisfaction in this sport, especially when one’s skill outgrows the ammo used.
Hi john
I’ve been watching you for a good while now and learning a lot from you.
But Rimfire is where I’m at.
I could have nearly told you that those two would have opened up at 100. Still not bad but exactly what they have done in all my testing
You need to give RWS R50 a go. It was proven way more consistent in many rifles. I’ve done benchrest, PRS and ELR with the R50 and it is the winning ammo to use 🍀🇮🇪
Yes please! More rimfire content please.
Don't worry, it's coming.
The order that you shot the 50 yard favors the Lapua. The SK was shot with a cold, unfouled barrel, and then a hot barrel that was fouled with the Lapua. The Lapua, specifically the second string, had the most consistent conditions, and that's possibly why it shot the best. Order matters.
One way to counteract that would be to shoot a second set in the opposite order: Lapua, SK, SK, Lapua.
The effects of order may matter more than the tuner.
Great Video
Excellent video. I see a MPA chassi what is the barreled action and trigger? Looking forward to the benchrest video. Never mind just watched again. You said a RimX
It's a RimX with a TT Diamond on it.
Try some Eley Tenex just for comparison and have you ever taken your rifle in for lot testing.
John, love the reticle on your scope, can you tell me what scope you have? Thanks. Great video
Thank you. It's the Leupold Mark5HD with the PR1 MOA reticle.
John can you tell us about your tuner and tuning process with 22lr? Do you use the same method you describe in your EC tuner tuning video with centerfire? Only one rotation?
I have had trouble with Rifle Match holding up at 100 yards. Much better luck with Long Range Match, if you can find it. Also, you might try Pistol Match and Pistol Match Special.
That's been my results also, with CenterX preforming well. But in Canada CenterX, runs considerably more than my prefered Aguila.
I'm a little late to the game, sorry. I've been watch your videos on You Tube for a couple of years now and thank you for all the great information. I have two questions; what kind of chrono is that and where do I get one? Thanks
It's the AndiScan www.sqi-andix.com/shop/
The SK flyer : You moved. First round was a little shaky . "I think its a draw" You still have the human factor
John, what BC are you runnimg the Sk and Center X at out to 2-250 yards?
Hey John, thanks for the video testing. Rimfire is a nice break from reloading. What scope, reticle focal plane are you running on that rifle?
I'm running a Leupold Mark5HD 5-25 FFP
@@FClassJohn OK thank you I’m thinking about trying one of the 10 mile Trijicon con 5 to 50 on a center fire just can’t make that choice between first and second since I’ve been using the second focal plane for 60 years
@@stephenkrampert3430 the biggest determining factor is whether you are going to be shooting known distances like a benchrest match or something more like an RL 22. Benchrest I would go for second focal plane and NRL you really need a first focal plane. In my particular case, since I shoot both, I opted for the first focal plane since it’s easier to shoot benchrest matches with a first focal plane, then to try to shoot an NRL match with a second focal plane.
So you shoot a second focal plane for your F class stuff? I’ll probably never shoot a match but I would like to go attend one and watch sometime are used to be a pretty competitive Trapshooter. It’s hard to mix both.
Good shoot
I have good results with R50 in 2 of mine
your trigger cam footage is probably the clearest footage i have seen, everyone else footage seems to be out of focus. would you happen to know why?? i want a trigger cam but that has been putting me off of getting one. anyways great shooting brother
Thank you. The TriggerCam requires some manual focus and it can be challenging. It helps to have a tablet hooked up so you can see better than a phone. Part of the problem is that there's no way to tell if it's focussed by looking through it.
what was the tuner difference between the two?
What action you running on your rig
Just subbed to your channel, i found it very interesting comparing ammo. I'm a SK shooter in my Bergara B14-R with the Standard Plus and was wondering how it would compare to say Rifle match or Long Range Match, do you or anyone have any info on this subject?
Cheers.
Thank you. So far my experience with the SK/Lapua has been that at it's core they have all shot about the same groups sizes for me. What's really changed as I've gone up or down the range of ammo is the quantity of flyers and how far from statistical center they are. I haven't shot LR Match yet but have some coming and will test when I get it.
Yes I think the standard plus will outshoot the match at one hundred or it does for me I can on a good day produce one quarter in groups with the standard plus hope this helps you.
Beagleman
Nice shooting........................................
I wonder what the ely tenx would do?
I've never had much luck in getting repeatability with a tuner when I would try to go back and forth from one ammo to another, even when doing what you are between SK & Lapua brands or doing Rifle Match & Std Plus versions.
Maybe cause your gun can't be tuned. There's something else going on with the gun if it can be repeated. When a gun is truly tuned there is no need to move the tuner ever again. We dont tune ammo we tune the gun amd find the killer ammo
Excellent video.. very nice rifle and groups. Not to criticize but use a plumb Bob or level when tacking up a target. Your rifle according to your trigger cam is not square or riding level on your rest. Joseph Schuster @ Wicked Truth Arms. Love you videos. Learning alot.
You have the silhouettes out there
What tuner is that? Nice shooting.
It’s an Ezell’s tuner. They clamp on so you don’t need a threaded barrel.
Don’t you need to season the barrel some with any new rimfire ammo because the lubricant used is different?
Normally between brands I'd say yes but since these ammos are both made by Lapua they use the same lube so it's less of an issue if any from what I've seen. Much different than switching between Lapua and Eley.
Are you allowed to use the trigger cam in an f class match? As someone who's never shot a match that could be very interesting
Sadly no, but I’ll be using it in my local league where we run a little looser. So you’ll get to see plenty of strings shot.
Can't beat that center x it is the best.
Beagleman
Lube amount, lead alloy hardness, crimping... So many parameters vs reloaded centerfire ammunition, rimfire batches accuracy is a mystery
I’m guessing CenterX and SK rifle match are the same formula?
I was just curious how long of a barrel you are using?
21" Shillen Ratchet
Do you weigh each round from each brand and group those rounds accordingly?
No, I tested that and for what I do, I just didn’t see any relevant difference.
Is there an online vender that sells these ammos? I can't find any local shops that sell them.
I've had good luck at bulletcentral(.)com
I'm seeing the trace that's cool
Looked good. Wish you had adjusted the scope just for fun.
I'm not sure I know what you mean??
@@FClassJohn on the 50 yd. shots each brand of ammo was hitting to the left. Why not make a adjustment to the scope to hit the point of aim?
I know you are just looking for groups. I guess I just like seeing the hole where the center dot is in the scope.
Sorry for the post because you definitely know what your doing.
@@ronnydowdy7432 I totally understand what you’re saying and it’s not a problem. My Windy just constantly changing depending on when I shoot because of conditions so I don’t really bother centering it up too much during testing.
It is so much more fun to watch great shooting videos than the crap on TV these days LOL. But I think you need a new rifle, so I will buy this one off you for cheap. 😀
A 2 moa 10 ring is very generous
I agree but I don't make the rules. Funny thing about ring sizes, they don't really matter in the end. All that matters is that everyone is shooting with the same scoring methodology. Whether 1, 2 or 3 minutes the same person will end up winning 99.9% of the time.
The Art of Rimfire Accuracy by Bill Calfee is a good book. I've been lucky enough to shoot with Bill and some of his Turbo action builds. When the good ammo was hard to get we would weigh and rim thickness sort the cheaper stuff.
Most of the time sorting doesn't solve the problem. Sometimes you're lucky, a cheaper ammo batch can be cheaper and more accurate that another but it's not the rule. With low end ammo it can shoot tight, but flyers usually go further.
@@br4713 I did a weight sort of some Remington thunderbolt (it doesn't come much cheaper) and found a variance of +4 grains. I pulled the lightest and heaviest and weighed the separated components of each. The total weight variance was in the projectile, the powder charge and case weights were the same for both...
@@br4713 I agree with what you are saying. But I never said it would solve any problems. Sorting is something you can do when you can't get what shoots best. Sometimes sorting is just good for your mindset.😉
@@DadWil That's a pretty large variance of bullet weight. Probably that's why Thunderbolt is the cheap stuff. It uses the bullets that don't meet tighter specifications, where the ones that DO fit a tighter specification are saved for better ammo.
@@LoanwordEggcorn Yes it is and also why I could never shoot MOA groups with Rem Thunderbolts.
Besides the fact it is in a steady and modified bench rest, it’s just ridiculous…..
I get the same results at 100 just with a bipod and a stock cz 457 on sk long range….
BTW sk and center x is the exact same lube made on the exact same machines. It's all in the lapua grading system. Xact, midas+, centerx and sk varieties
Yep, that's why I'm good with shooting the SK. I get good results for the price and I'm just in this for fun so it's a good balance for me. I've shot Midas and CX and of course it's better each step of the way but I'm totally comfortable with when I'm shooting right now.
Who makes that attachment for the 3” rest?
It's something I make. I'm going to do a video soon on how I make them.
What scope do you use?
I use a Leupold Mark5 HD 5-25.
Now that is the way my cz457s shoot at 100yrds that's the way a good rifle should shoot with center x.
Beagleman
I looking at this video and I noticed the crus side is little high on the Left nd low on the Right Check it out my Friends
What is your barrel length and twist rate?
21” 1:16
Seems like the dirtier the barrel got the worse they shot
Dude, that's a precision rifle not a kar-98 or mosin, no need to be rude with that bolt.
Since their is no such thing as a " RimX rifle", please add info one the barrel.
what scope camera is being used
Triggercam
@@FClassJohn now I need to spend more money. Lol
So why not kick it up a notch & feed her Lapua Midas+ and X-Act?
There’s a lot of debate going on re: tuners. Can you address Bryan Litz’s commentary on this? He has a whole chapter in his new book.
Honestly I'd rather not. I know they work for me, I know how I use them and the results I get and that's all that matters. If he doesn't like them or feel they work then that's cool too. It won't stop me from using them.
Which chronograph is that? Thanks
It's this one www.sqi-andix.com/andiscan-micro-a2/
Can't beat that center x it shoots really good out of my cz457s like it a lot great shooting bro.
Beagleman
And then there are different lots of ammunition to test, rimfire can be a deep, but fun, rabbit hole.. I believe testing would be better if the shooter does not know which ammo they are shooting. I know I cannot help but try harder when shooting expensive .22 ammo. BTW, Norma Tac22 ammo is a good inexpensive practice ammunition.
I like too see you really love to shoot
What targets are you using?
My vudoo can shoot those groups at 100yds with lot tested center x and r50
My cz457s will do the same thing.
Beagleman
what chrono is that?
AndiScan. www.sqi-andix.com/andiscan-micro-a2/
@@FClassJohn thanks buddy!
Now I would like to ask you are you related to Josh on pursuit of accuracy. Because I would swear you sound just like him and I didn't see your face. Soooooo
Beagleman
No not at all, and to be fair he's much better looking than I am...
Shoot off a bipod and rear bag and listen to you.
I hope you know that a tuner setting that works well at 50 yards is not suitable for shooting at 100 yards.
Launch angle for 50 yards:
1035 fps=8 MOA
1070 fps=7.6 MOA
Requires 5.84 MOA/ms upward swing of barrel to compensate.
Launch angle for 100 yards:
1035 fps=17 MOA
1070 fps=16 MOA
Requires 14.6 MOA/ms upward swing of barrel to compensate.
So, what does this mean? Well, say you have done your best to tune your rifle to eliminate all vertical at 50 yards. A 1035 fps shot will have a -8.8 MOA drop at 100 yards. A 1070 fps shot will have a -8.4 MOA drop at 100 yards. This is a difference of 0.4 MOA. So if you take a barrel you have tuned to eliminate vertical at 50 yards and shoot it at a 100-yard target you will be purposely introducing a 0.4 MOA error that cannot be overcome. This comes from the fact that via the tuner setting you've chosen you have a barrel swinging slower than necessary to compensate for the new distance you are shooting at. So, effectively, you can take whatever group size figure that the ammo is capable of in that gun and add on an extra 0.4 MOA to the group size, and this is what you will actually see on paper. The tuner needs to be dialed in closer to the action in order to speed the barrel up for the longer distance in order to dial out the vertical at that distance. Tuning is distance-specific.
Yep and that's why I tune at 100yds and it work very well for me. With rifle match, I'm shooting just over a minute at 200yds, a minute or less at 100yd now and all one big hole at 50. I would never tune at 50 unless that's all I was going to shoot.
This is also why it is more complicated than just taking any random barrel and slapping any random tuner on it. In order to have a barrel that will shoot well at 50 yards you have to design a profile that will naturally vibrate faster than you need it to for it to work well at 50 yards. Since you need it to move at 5.84 MOA/ms to shoot its best at 50 yards the barrel needs to be designed to naturally move faster than that. And then you need to pair it with a tuner that is capable of slowing it down into that neighbourhood. A tuner can't speed a barrel up. It can only slow it down. So the barrel on its own needs to be faster than you require. Then you can take a tuner that is designed to work well with that particular barrel and slow it down just enough to eliminate as much vertical as possible. And the specific target distance you will be using needs to be kept in mind when making those design choices.
Can one tuner be moved enough to change one barrel's tune from 50 yards to 100 yards? If you're planning on shooting at 100 yards as well as 50 yards then you need to design the barrel such that it is too fast for 100 yards, and then design a tuner that will slow it down enough to work at 100 yards. Whether or not that same tuner is going to be able to slow it down even more so that it'll work at 50 yards is another matter entirely. It is possible that it could slow it down enough to also work at 50 yards when set for 50 yards. It is also possible that you would require a completely different tuner to slow it down enough for 50 yards. It will depend on how much adjustment the tuner has available, and how heavy the tuner is, how much of that mass is in the adjustment piece, and how that relates to the barrel and barrel profile. To repeat, it isn't as simple as taking any random barrel and slapping any random tuner on it. They have to accomplish certain things when taken together as a working unit. The length and profile of the barrel needs to vibrate too fast to start with, but only too fast by an amount that a complimentary tuner can slow it down by, slowing it just enough to be most helpful.
@@FClassJohn I edited the first comment to clarify, rather than leaving it at just one sentence. Hehe. The edited version and the reply I just left a second ago should help explain why tuning at 50 and shooting at 100, or tuning at 100 and shooting at 50, are both compromises that leave error on the table. For optimal results at both distances you need a separate tuner setting at each distance.
Is Josh so much better looking than you that you are not shown on this entire video? You might be brothers by a different mother .
Beagleman
No marksmanship here!
A tuner does not tune ammo! Tuners tune the barrel . If the barrel is truly tuned there is no need to move the tuner ever again. There is more than just twisting a tuner that makes a gun tuned. Bedding has to be perfect , trigger timing, ignition,scope and much more go into tuning. That's why yalls stuff is always all over the place.