A number of years ago I found text between my husband and a "friend" from the gym. They both said they were just friends. She said she wasn't going to have anything to do with him. He said that they weren't going to talk to her anymore on the phone or gym. I had to find trust and get over my jealousy. A few years later my husband told me he wasn't happy and left. A couple of weeks later my 15-year-old son told me that he was living with his girlfriend. A neighbor told me who lived in the house my son had on find my phone. It was the "friend" from the gym. It always starts out innocent.
@@ladydean87 I don't think my ex set out to leave his family. I think he justified his actions along the way and was enticed by the devil. I wished he had a big wakeup call like Pastor Matt just received. It's little by little that one is lead to sin.
'' a little leaven leavens the whole lump '' I'm sorry this happened to you, may the Lord bless your faithfulness, stay strong and on the narrow road !
I established a "friendships" with a single coworker years ago, she was attractive and recently single. At the time we exchanged numbers as coworkers strictly on a professional basis. But very quick it started to.branch out into texting, messaging, her complaining about her ex boyfriend and me thinking I was just a friend offering advice. But I started to develop a crush on her, and the texts while never sexual or flirty became friendly, and regularly, started snap chatting, lots of smiley emojis, silly jokes back and forth. I was treading on very dangerous territory. Until she called me one night to complain about her ex boyfriend, it understandably upset my wife. It could have sprouted into inappropriate behavior soon but I was too naive to see it. Almost cost me my marriage, it wasn't worth it. She's long gone. Since then, I've implemented the Billy Graham rule when it comes to female coworkers.
It's easy to fall into because it almost always starts innocently. One of my best girlfriends admits that she essentially cheated on her fiance at the time with one of her male coworkers even though they never had an affair or relationship. Her engagement was to a toxic man, so instead of ending her relationship, she threw herself into, what started out as an innocent, friendship with her "work husband" (I've always shuttered at that phrase because I cannot joke about being someone else's wife or having a different husband). Anyway, her coworker fell in love with her and finally admitted it to her and pressed her to leave her fiance for him. It was then that she realized that while she had never had a romantic relationship with her coworker up to that point, that she had essentially cheated on her fiance by leaning on her coworker for emotional support and whatever else she was lacking in her relationship with her fiance. Fortunately, she ended it with both of them and never actually cheated, but she also ended her engagement after realizing how unhealthy that relationship was. Now she's married to a great Christian man and has a beautiful family. God worked it all out for her in the end, and now her testimony and story is profound--especially because it deals with a topic that many people don't want to acknowledge in their own lives.
I don’t understand these loose standards when people are married. My wife isn’t allowed to have another man’s number in her phone. I’m not allowed to have another woman’s number in my phone, let alone talk to another woman.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw It's true, it was inappropriate on my end. I was walking a very thin rope and it could have gotten worse if I wasn't confronted
As an Elder of a SBC Church I do agree with Ruslan that this was a lose-lose situation. I think Matt did the right thing in going to the Elders, and I think the Elders probably knew he needed a break. Given that the source close to Matt is true, I think the situation is a bit overblown, especially in the media. I am guessing the church didn't expect for it to gain national media attention. (This seems to be an oversight by them) I don't think the Elders did anything wrong, but I think the Elders probably could have met with all parties and dealt with it internally without making it public. Not all Elder decisions need to be broadcasted in the public eye. If members had questions they could have came to the Elders personally. The Elders still could have given Matt say a 6 month sabbatical and a majority of this could have been addressed without it becoming explosive. If there really wasn't deep sin here I don't see why it needed to be brought up in a vague way to the public. That only gave the media fuel for their fire. Had the Elders been a bit more specific I think the spin in the media wouldn't have been so bad. Sadly, if all of this is true, then the backlash alone has probably done worse things for the perceived credibility of the gospel than Matt's sin did. If anything though, I am glad it has raised some tough questions we all need to work through. Thanks for the update.
Oh this hurts my heart. Honestly, it seems like this "friend" was instigating and was really stirring the pot. The silver lining in all of it is that Matt has received the gift of humility. It makes me sad to see him, his wife and kids get dragged through the media like this though. But humility is always a gift. God reveals Himself in beautiful, comforting ways through humility. I trust God that He will meet Matt (and company) deeply and lovingly in this horrible situation. That's the kind of God we serve. Full of mercy, comfort, grace and peace. Praise His name!
Unfortunately, in the age of Social Media and the fact that even Christians feel like they have to do these "reaction" videos and have podcasts on the regular, I am not particularly surprised that even the church has started to form opinions based off of minimal information, begin to gossip, etc. The church is becoming more and more like the world when it comes to the whole Social media piece. This is the reason that I have begun to unsubscribe to MANY of the Christian youtubers. The bottom line is that the content is less edifying and more like gossip.
Amen Amen!!! What if all our sins were put on display before our brethren & potentially the world… would you pray for Pharisee type rebuke or Christ like repentance call to sin no more? Both have a discipline aspect & a call to change from where you are. Greater was no distance between God & ourself prior to Christ accepting us at our repentance. Even still Christ is willing to accepted us in our repentance. Be careful putting a measure on or between your sin an another’s.
@@Jonathan_Gen.15.6 I agree with you completely with regards to this, I am no better. Honestly, at least in my mind, my intent was not to make myself appear to be more righteous. I do try daily to "examine" myself or judge myself so I would not be judged". Interesting that you should bring this up as I read this verse recently, 1 Corinthians 11:31 and it reminded me of a phrase that has become more popular over the last couple of years, "self awareness". Interesting that the Bible talks about so many things before they become popular in modern culture. At any rate, my intent was rather to call out that along with the focus on Social Media, comes it's brothers and sisters, one of which is the reporting of all that is going on in the world. I believe that there is a really fine line between discussing relevant topics which may be helpful and build us up in our faith and simply "reaction" videos which is almost an expectation if you are a content creator. Think about how many have reacted to this news and how that how many false assumptions have been made because of it. Did the rehashing of the same news over and over and over again benefit you spiritually? It could be different for everyone but I am honestly growing rather tired of hearing about it. Anyway thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate your thoughts.
Can't agree with you more. Pastors should not have any personal social media account. If the platform is effective, it should only be ran by the church (staffs). Pastors should also refrain themselves from Facebook, Twitter and instagram. They're all nonsense to me.
IF Matt did ONLY what they said, the elders were completely wrong. According to Mat 18:15-20, this should have been handled privately. It only reaches public if he resists repentance. The Media blow up is the result of NOT following scripture by the elders. You handle minor things with a word to the wise. This moved to "punishment" for an offense that does not seem to demand punishment. Either they slandered him and embarrassed everyone OR there is real sin here that they are NOT addressing.
Just wanted to correct part of the conversation. Matt is a super social guy, if you ever have been to The Village Church, from the moment the pre service prayer/meeting is complete, he is in the lobby, or walking around the sanctuary talking with everyone basically until the service is starting. He doesn’t seem to fit the normal mega church pastor shell. I think the elders here were being overly cautious, crappy situation. But props to Matt for not just ignoring it and taking it strait to the elders, even though it led to some crap.
I hear you, and it seems to be so hard for men in Christian leadership to be friendly with everybody without people giving them a side eye when they are talking to women, etc. Here's the thing, though. There are safeguards that you can put up. For example, I attend a church with a relatively young pastor. He is in his late 30s. Married with four kids. He has no social media. The church has a social media account, and they let him know what's posted on there. I have noticed that although he is very friendly, he keeps up certain protective barriers when it comes to dealing with young women--and people in general, frankly. For example, he does not give out his phone number. Communication with him is done either in person at church or via email which his staff can actually access at any time. They don't regularly peruse his emails, but they have access to them if that makes. Not only does that help him balance his schedule, be responsive to things that might slip through the cracks, etc. but it also provides transparency in all messaging between him and anyone emailing him. He is not approved who just won't talk to or hug the female members of his congregation, but he definitely keeps up various to protect himself and has a circle of older men who help to keep him accountable. I respect it.
I've been a believer for more than half my life now. A sinner saved by grace through faith. Good job elders for saving Matt from a blind spot that we all can have. Good job Matt for submitting to church discipline. If a wife is that free to talk to over men its not a good sigh. But I'm probably in the minority as a Christian theses days. Any questions ask Mike Winger,no joke.
Church discipline can ONLY happen biblically if the person refuses to repent of clear sin. Jesus made this clear. In fact you have to have two or three witness to the SIN. In the OT you had to have eyes on an actual act of adultery. It's important to read the Bible and trust it that we don't need to add to it. It's not easy.
I have a PR background, and his statement along with the elders' statement struck me as the kind of vague language that a law firm would use because when law firms make public statements they tend to use broad language rather than specifics because their goal is to protect their client rather than provide information or concerns about public perception. I think a PR consultant would have caught the implications of their statement due to the vagueness of it and recommended a more forthcoming approach that would have left less room for speculation, so it seems like they may have gotten their wording from the law firm. If the information you have is accurate, it's unfortunate that the church chose to use such vague language because I doubt they even thought about or anticipated the public backlash. Not that churches should hire "image consultants" but in some cases it might be beneficial to consider the best way to provide truthful information in a way that doesn't damage trust, both within the church and to the public, since Matt Chandler does have a ministry that reaches beyond his church. I think they would have benefitted from giving the duration the messages went on, defining what they meant by crude or foolish joking, for example saying that it was about alcohol, and then referring to the Scriptures against it, and defining what they meant by familariy, that he was making these jokes to someone he didn't know very well. I think "familariy" caused a lot of people to think some sort of emotional attachment and it doesn't sound like that was the case. However, there are always people who are going to assume the worst no matter what, even amongst Christians. Y'all may be right that this was part of a larger issue the elders saw, and they very well may have discussed that with him and opted not to make those details public and saw an opportunity for him to step down for a bit to work on those things. If that's the case, it's unfortunate that the vague language was used that made it sound like there could be more to the story or that he was on the road to an emotional affair and the elders stepped in before it got that far. I do think that there is an element of this that does involve the "celebrity pastor" and mega church culture that we can't overlook.
To agree with the rest of the class, well said. Part of my walk with Christ has been learning not to idolize pastors, particularly my own. It allows me, through the grace of God, not jump to overly negative or overly positive conclusions about these situations. I had a feeling that the texting between Matt and this young woman wasn't as bad as it sounded, but I'm not surprised at all this was his Church's reaction. I've been listening to Matt Chandler for a while now, and he does go pretty hard LOL but I can deal with how hard he goes, as long as they hold themselves just as accountable. The fact that that he went to the elders about this tells me he at least he's s trying to hold himself as accountable as he would his congregation. He probably looks at all of this backlash as the consequences of his own sin. If he never texted this woman in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Unfortunately, sadly and tragically this situation exposed the hearts of many professing christians, regardless of the 'circumstances'. So many channels I commented on expressing concerns about gossip, slandering, busy bodying, and complete lack of grace, mercy and compassion for a brother (and his family), mentioning that we should be praying, submitting our thoughts, feelings and opinions to the filter of the Holy Spirit, were instead being flooded with comments of malice, gossip and even had people inserting their own 'experiences' onto the public forum as 'evidence' of the true 'heart' of either Matt's intentions or TVC's intentions. There was little or no evidence of a people who had 'supposedly' come out of the world, but instead exposed how very much the 'world' was still of greater influence. It was/is extremely telling on the 'church' body as a whole. We must always be checking our hearts and submitting everything to Jesus and letting His Spirit guide us and lead. Only one channel 'Pastor' openly prayed for Matt/TVC on live video! That could have been every self proclaimed christian channel, but alas, not so. Instead there was 'demand' to see the dm's! The Lord was, is and always will be, fully aware, able, competent and assuredly purposeful in every circumstance regarding His children, His church, His Bride - we must submit to Him. He will vindicate. He exalts and He brings down. He is Lord. And it will all glorify Him. I appreciate this video.
The bible says if you do something against a brother you go to that brother. The only time you take it to the whole church is if they don’t repent. It sounds odd that he would step down. Why not just apologize to the woman, get off social media, and move forward. Its like he’s making himself a Martyr .
I think in light of recent pastoral failings, they may have wanted to be extra cautious. I imagine they may handle it differently in the future, IF it occurs with anyone else.
I went to HSU with Chandler and considered him a friend. I worked on the Grace Bible Study crew with him. He required very high standards for the crew and all I did was break down the set and direct traffic in the parking lot. I can with 100% certainty say that Chandler did not have any semblance of an affair. He was of the highest moral character 25 yrs ago and that has continued through his life. He loves his wife and his children and would never do anything like that. Could he have said something about drinking that might of been inappropriate to some? Sure I could buy that. God still has great things in store for this man. He's been sold out for Jesus since I've known the man!
@@drosch777 not everyone will in a sexual way though. There are people who will never fall in that way. I think that’s a part of the enemy’s plan at this time honestly. I think he’s oppressing many with sexual temptations and therefore wants all these horrific stories coming out because he can try to make people feel like there’s no hope and like everyone has to be this way… essentially like Jesus has no real power to save, to set free and like God has no power to keep His people from falling as His Word says He can and will.
He would never? Yeah, I would have said the same thing about King David. Every person needs to realize that they absolutely COULD fall into terrible sin. People change over time & even people who have seemed the most godly people have been found to commit terrible sins. It is one of the reasons accountability & prayer are extremely important for Christians in general and even more so those in leadership. God bless.
I love Mike Winger ! But definitely the reason I like Ruslan KD is because he confronts controversial issues with courage and wisdom…no beating around the bush and no obvious kowtowing to a particular “group think”. It’s refreshing. Mike does that too. Objective and fair analysis. Keep it up!
That the spouses knew about this interaction really changed my view of what happened and to realize it was a discussion about drinking, not sexual content. This could have been handled better internally. There are all kinds of ministries within churches(children's, worship team, outreach) in which men and women volunteer together to make God known. We need to be gracious with one another realizing none of us has arrived. We need to allow some humor as long as it isn't ribald.
No one really knows what happened because we haven't seen the conversation. The other issue is the track record at Village Church. The "grace" churches have taken great Liberty on their stand regarding alcohol.The lack of discipline "from these mature leaders "who can handle their drinking" as well as their lack of concern for creating a stumbling block for a weaker brother. Alcohol leads to loose standards which opens the door for this kind of controversy and worse!
@@dianalawrence8879 Agreed! I've seen alcohol cause terrible harm in my own family. Church leaders need to walk circumspectly to not cause those stumbling blocks for the weaker brothers.
Agreed! This is an age for transparency. Being vague leaves too much room for believing the worst. The church could benefit from more transparency overall!
No pastor should be dm’ing a woman let alone a married woman. Even if your own wife knows about it and it’s “totally innocent”. It’s called being above reproach.
I know I'm in the minority on this but I actually think they did the right thing in bringing it to the public for ONE reason...to stop the idea that the next bigger thing could just be handled in house. As Matt himself said do you know how easy it would have been to make this no big deal? And suddenly everybody thinks they can handle everything internally and that's where the trap comes in. Even the pastor starts think well this little thing was handled internally so if I do a big thing it's no big deal. I guess what I'm saying is it opens the door wider for more stuff to happen in the dark.
Although I was initially against them releasing the DMs, at this point, maybe they would do well to release at least some of them to clear Pastor Matt’s name as much as they can. There will always be those who will maintain their adamance against him and feel like there is more to it, but that will always be the case. Everyone has different experiences and biases and church hurt and various levels of spiritual maturity that affect how they perceive these types of things.
I think the elders did the right thing, Matt did the right thing, some of us Christians jumped to conclusion and judging based on no facts. Im sure they could had said it differently and done it differently but all that can be taken care by them coming back after all this and being clear about everything. We should be praying that everyone does the wise thing and that may God continue to lead them in the right path.
I politely disagree. In today’s “me too” culture with all the accusations with the DOJ coming after the SBC directly over how pastors treat women, the elders should have been much more wise because this story didn’t blow up before Christians, it blew up before the entire country/unbelievers. Given what actually happened, their decision opened the door for confusion and the appearance of evil before those outside the faith. They didn’t consider social media and the fact he is a celebrity pastor. This kinda situation seems like a nothing burger from the start and, if so, should have been handled in house
Yeah I think it's interesting that everyone who was judging and condemning him without cause is now blaming the church elders instead of looking in the mirror at the problem.
You know .. one thing I hope we don't miss in the midst of all our questions about what the DMs said or opinions about how this should/should not have been handled is how Matt Chandler publicly allowed his broken and contrite heart to be seen by thousands of people. I mean that challenged me to ask .. "Does my heart break like that for my own missteps? For my own non-publicized sin?" Psalm 51 is a good reminder .. and remember that David was called "a man after God's own heart .." Thank you Matt for your transparency and brokenness on display .. regardless of "what" was in the DMs.
"I'm embarrassed" and "I feel stupid" are words that come out of pride. He addressed how he feels. Emotions are deceptive. I think everyone in this mega church is responsible. I saw a well-planned course of manipulation with hopes of keeping his position. The modern church has become way too comfortable with familiar relationships. I also find the fact that she was a married woman and his wife was fine with this alarming. Lust is a blinding force and if something didn't happen beyond course talk; it is just a matter of time before it would have.
If that’s really ALL it was then it’s absolutely ridiculous that they chose to publicize this & ruin this man publicly, knowing full well this is an age or social media. Shame on that church for them for going about it this way instead of privately speaking to him about this.
I think that’s the problem. If the woman who got offended about it went and said something, it’d have REALLY been made into something it wasn’t and then Matt would REALLY have not been able to ever preach again. Sometimes we aren’t going to miss the trouble. We’re either going to have trouble or big trouble and I think that tried to keep it from being BIG TROUBLE.
@@siefoote I agree. And by trying to they actually created big trouble. They let fear direct their steps instead of just standing on what the truth was and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit on how to handle it with Matt and trusting that if public trouble some how came about, because the enemy is always lookin for a way to attack, that no weapon word or deed formed against them would prosper.
I've been really bothered by this whole thing. I understand that maybe he should avoid messaging women in general, but if the messages were not sexual, romantic, or flirtacious, then why was he made to stand in front of everyone (in person and online) and have to be made so embarrassed? He mentioned several times in his annoucement through tears how embarassed he was. I just don't think all that was necessary. The elder's could've spoken to him in private and spared him this public shaming in the media. I think the church made a huge mistake here.
He shouldn’t be messaging women . He’s married ! Why isn’t he messaging other men? That’s how cheating starts ! It starts “innocent” That’s how satan works.
I understand where you're coming from. Matt Chandler has always gone hard preaching the word, so I see part of this as him holding himself to his own standings. In addition, I do think his church shouldn't have been so vague in their statement. It left the door open for people to think it was more than it was. I don't think Matt Chandler was trying to make himself a martyr at all. I think he was genuinely that torn up about his actions. If you listen to him preach long enough, you would get that feeling about him and how he operates in his faith.
Yeah.... I'm on team -- they didn't do themselves any favors with the wording. On one hand it was "not romantic" but on the other hand, it was beyond a brother and sister relationship. Likewise, they are simultaneously saying he didn't do anything disqualifying, while taking actions as if he had done something disqualifying. They really made it sound like he was in an emotional affair, even though the direct wording was that the problem was the coarse joking. It's all very odd how it was worded. That's really all I could say about it... because I don't know enough details to discern whether or not their actions were an appropriate response. I can just say their actions sent a pretty confusing message. I assume, like most other situations, in time more details will come out and then we'll all have a better idea if the their decision based on the DMs was appropriate or extreme.
I agree it’s as if the elders are protecting themselves from scrutiny by not revealing enough details for the congregation to be able to properly judge if their decision was right while allowing full scrutinisation of Matt Chandler. I find that a little bit unauthentic
Based on my very limited knowledge of the situation, the sin and the mistake in this case was how the situation was handled by the church leadership. This is NOT something that should be drawn out in the light. A correction in private is what is needed. The Billy Graham rule was to prevent a bigger rule being broken. The Billy Graham rule is not Gods rule, not even for a high profile pastor that keeps a higher level of accountability. All the spouses were aware of the communication and it was not an issue. The church leadership is making a mountain out of a mole hill and that is the greater issue here.
Agreed. To me it doesn't look like the church leadership handled it well. To me it looks like they were purposefully setting him up for a fall. I could be wrong in this, but either way, it looks bad. Then there's the friend of the friend who somehow had access to the DM's and felt compelled to confront Matt Chandler about it. That's extremely meddlesome. Stirring up trouble where there is none. Unless we are all missing some important detail here they have succeeded in making a mountain out of a molehill.
My heart breaks for Matt, his family & The Village Church. I applaud Matt & the Church for dealing with these issues in a Godly manner. This is a great example of how problems that arise, need to be addressed. It takes courage, humility & a genuine healthy fear of the Lord to stand up & be honest, transparent & accountable. I make mistakes daily & am grateful I can lay them at the feet of Christ without the world looking on & nailing me to the wall. This was clearly incredibly hard for Matt & seeing him choke back his tears brought home just how human we all are whether behind the pulpit or in the privacy of our own home. This will only make their family unit stronger, this is how God moulds us for the better, we power forward with a clearer understanding of our weaknesses & humility in our heart. God bless you guy’s & know that we are proud of you no matter what 🙏
Idk the situation fully, none of us do.. BUT you are absolutely right, we are all faulty and messed up if not for Christ. Even as Christians we are considered purified ONLY bc of Jesus, not bc we are awesome.. I too believe they are handling the situation properly. Prayers to all involved.
For years my son has told me to stay away from churches. He always claimed there are more christians outside of church than inside the church. I disagreed with him. Lately, many things have happened in churches, and I have now decided to join a group of christians who get together weekly and read/discuss God's word. No more gossip, etc for me. I have had enough.
I think it needs to be a “leave your phone at the door” situation with the congregation and they’re owed a real explanation but the rest of us? I mean if we’re being honest with each other - it’s not really any of our business
Sounds like you lack self control. Things don’t magically get out of control because you were “too attached.” You made active choices. The end. Expecting someone else to stop you from a very active choice is the height of pride. Women are not your enemy neither are healthy relationships with them. Your flesh is the issue and that can only ever be your responsibility.
@@loganrobertson3299 WOW. Real lack of empathy from you. Of course it was MY choice. 100000% my choice. I made the decisions. Never said I didn’t. I allowed my sin and MY flesh control me. At the same time, I had brothers in Christ who saw the implosion and I wish they had helped me in the name of Christ. I also made the decision to confess, repent, and live right. Along the way, I had men rooting for me and encouraging me.
From what I understand This isn’t a sin issue, it’s an “above reproach” issue. More of a, I allowed myself to have a “familiar” conversation with a married woman unguarded. Although it be “virtual” it’s like him as a pastor standing in a corner,alone, having a conversation with another woman. Not sin by nature just not fitting of a married man or woman. Just my thought…
You do realize women followed Jesus around & ministered to him? There was Mary Magdalene... Seriously, I feel people have gone over the top. So married men can't be friends w/women any more? To me, the only person to make a decision on this should have been his wife & if she trusts him enough to allow it & the woman's husband was ok w/it, there shouldn't have been a problem. I don't see why the elders didn't just communicate to him that they didn't like it & to stop it (privately)
He did exactly what he was supposed to do. The elders did what they were supposed to do. Pastors are held to a higher standard. I believe it was much of nothing! I believe what the elders did is to protect the pastor and the church. To give him time to let this die down and realize that unfortunately we live in a world where they look for anything to try to shred Christians. I don’t think he did anything wrong but something that could have twisted to a very bad situation. As Christians we just need to pray for all pastors and other Christians. Satan is using everything he can to destroy! We must not give him anything to work with. I also believe that they announced it because they knew that it would have been twisted to destroy the pastor and the church. I applaud the pastor and the church.
A pastor messaging females online is SO INAPPROPRIATE! He absolutely did something wrong, especially because someone exposed him for it. Why is he messaging women making jokes ? He’s married AND a pastor.
Makes me wary of marriage and married couples. Don't joke, don't blink, don't wave......wow! Okay. Question. What's the "friend" doing in her friend's DM by the way? Love this channel too, by the way. Another question (which Zach already asked). Did this matter reeeeeeally need to have to be made public? On RUclips?!
It’s a matter of respect and devotion. Why would I even want to give my wife any room for doubt in my loyalty to her? Is it inherently wrong to talk to a person of the opposite sex as a married person? No. Is it unnecessary (especially in a private setting)? Absolutely.
@@IAMFISH92 did you forget when Chandler said both spouses knew about the relationship and knew about the chats? Does that not suggest to you then that something is being overstressed or overblown here? Y'all though! Look, whatever. Peace.
Again I’ll say it again. They should have protected their guy. Once they came out with that publicly, they should have said exactly what happened. Protect your guy.
Yep, never should have been made public to begin with, no sin was accused so no public announcement was needed, this chould have been handled in private. It appears to be a big over reaction by the elders.
So I have been to The Village Church a few times because my mom attends there and every time I have been there and Matt is in town I see him talking to people in the aisles. Not closed away somewhere behind stage. I don’t see him as most untouchable mega church pastors which I really liked knowing my mom goes there.
That narrative is super confusing to me as well. His kids went to the school I worked at a few years ago and he happened to be walking in as I was walking out. He had no idea I’d been going to The Village some, but it was a super friendly and kind quick interaction.
This is the first time I think I ever heard of the Billy Graham rule. But I was always taught a married man should not spend time with another woman. Things can go south very easily. And what I say to you is if you find something like that happening, RUN FOR THE HILLS!
this is why i like your channel. you dont bash people or create fake narratives. you stick with facts and continue with a story as it develops. good journalism ruslan
1 Timothy 5:19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Biblically, maybe this should not have become an official matter putting such an weight on pastor Chandler's life. The woman who brought the accusation should first asked the elders for advise instead of approaching the pastor directly.
Sadly, stuff like this (not Chandler’s actions) but the Elders response and the way the Church as a whole has criticized and condemned Matt is part of the reason I’ve pulled back a lot and re-evaluated Cultural Christianity. I never had a problem with Chandler and if everything that was said is truth I don’t think he didn’t anything wrong. As of late I have sensed God getting me back to the basics. I mostly read my Bible, stay involved in my local church and only follow a small handful of Christian RUclipsrs like you Ruslan and a few IG’er’s. I’ve un-followed a ton because of how toxic and questionable a lot of so called “Christian’s” have become in the Church. Sadly as of late I just feel like even the Church (not as a whole but quite a lot) have become toxic and need to be kept at a distance. It’s getting harder and harder to do this Christian walk when you’re genuinely serious and committed to your faith when many others aren’t or a bit sus. Just my two cents. ✌🏻
I actually had an extended back and forth twitter conversation with Matt Chandler when he was just getting famous. This is back when I was burning his sermons on CD. He helped me tremendously at a time when I really needed it so I may be a bit biased, but there are very few people on this earth as cool as Matt Chandler.
Situations like this are why you need more than Billy Graham rules. Jerry Jenkins talks about how physical hedges are vital but now you can be alone with a woman online or via text. His wife should have access to his phone and all online accounts except a church one so members don't have their privacy compromised. He could easily tell his church that he won't be alone with a woman in his office, door open or with a chaperone. If you need counseling he should have it chaperone. The appearance of inappropriate contact hurts the cause of Christ, his wife and his reputation. A woman never wants to hear, I saw your husband with so so at a restaurant or closed door office meeting or is texting your man. Even if nothing is going on it starts a mental war of its something going on. Trust is quickly destroyed, takes a long time to heal. You'll know it is not than friendship when you hear we are just friends. Just is the minimizer. Many times when you turn it around and ask can I have a friend like that or can I talk to your husband like that, the answer will be no. Then you know.
The problem with your argument is you are assuming trust was broken between spouses which was NOT the case here. As long as nothing inappropriate sexually or romantically is going on and both spouses of both parties are aware and comfortable with it, it’s literally not anyone else’s business. Period. His wife and him are allowed to set their own boundaries. Jesus wouldn’t pass the Billy Graham rule and that’s just a fact.
I'm so excited that Preston finally had a conversation with Dr. Sandy Richter about Judges 4!!!! I absolutely love it when Christian podcasters discuss scripture!!!
I believe that this Bless God channel is for the purpose of dialogue using more of a “podcast style” where he will sit down with individuals about various topics. I believe that the RuslanKD channel is where he does a monologue where he covers current events and issues. 1 channel is for discussion and to express his opinion and the other is to bring awareness to what’s going on.
What's up with Pastors who don't like to mix and spend time with their congregation? They like to "teach" and it just takes too much out of them to spend time with those who in effect pay their salaries? It's a trend here in South Africa as well and it mainly happens in the bigger churches.
The Elders and Matt Chandler did the right thing if the facts were presented accurately and truthfully. He stepped down bc after being confronted, even though he didn't think he had done something wrong, his conscious convicted him. He obeyed the Holy Spirit, good for him. Being above reproach, and having healthy boundaries as unto the LORD, no matter what other people think, say, or how they respond to it, is biblical. He is a public figure, and so he humbled himself, and made a public announcement to his church. I am encouraged that he didn't try to hide it or do things in secret. He owned it, whatever it is, and is seeking God for his "lack of judgment and wisdom". Personally, I don't necessarily think the messaging was a big deal, but I also understand the desire to want to be above reproach and the effects of anything I do being misconstrued breaks my heart. People jumping to negative conclusions and attacking him, display the need for Jesus. I am hoping that the elders actually were led by the Spirit, and if so, glory to God! If not, God's on it. Remember christians are nor the standards, the world is not the standard, we are not the standards, the Word of GOD is, Jesus is. I know that when God is involved that there is no darkness and no secrets and so if he is lying, that is between him and GOD. People need to mind their business and stop thinking so highly of themselves! If only more people who call themselves Christians... if the people who are actually Christians would take the time to examine themselves and seek GOD when presented with allegations, even false ones, instead of becoming defensive or dismissing the complaint altogether. If Christians would be silent when attacked and pray instead. If Christians would morn at the mere droplet of potential sin in their hearts and lives that they didn't see, if we cared more about others and especially our brothers and sisters who are easily offended then our own images, agendas, and ministries?... I have no idea if any of it is real. But GOD does. And this whole thing makes me wonder if I am sensitive to the Spirit enough to not get angry at the person who is accusing me of something I didn't do. I actually had a conversation with the Lord last week as I was reading about my freedoms not being a stumbling block (which if they are telling the truth, is the case here) and I said GOD, "I don't know that I love people that much. Its not "fair" that I have to refrain from something forever because someone else is living in bondage. Why should I stop something that isn't sin, just because someone else may have different preferences or is legalistic and is just not free?" I know the answer. I am just sharing part of the conversation with the LORD where I complain about the privileges I have.. lol. And do I love the brethren enough to humble myself and ask God to help me see what I don't. The answer is no... I don't think I would have responded with this level of grace and humility... But my level of respect just sky rocketed. I pray that the truth and Christ has been at the center of all these events.
I go to a megachurch (Community Bible Church) in San Antonio, TX. The current head pastor was hired 4 years ago when he was 42 years old. So much healthier having a mature leader who’s identity isn’t paired with the church that he leads.
IMO, this was a very cautious action by the elders and chandler. The media is blowing this way out of proportion. Most pastors would not have been disciplined at all. Unless of course everyone is lying which is unlikely.
This isn't limited to Mega Churches. I've heard way too many stories of churchs/pastors covering up or downplaying these types of issues. They don't want to negatively affect the health of the church. So basically they are afraid of looking bad. It's sad.
Such an interesting perspective. I watch your stuff bc you bring a Christian perspective to what's happening in the world that is more thought provoking and also educative compared to just getting the info straight from secular people or news at times. But most importantly I love the Biblical perspective you bring and how you tie everything back to God, the Bible, & our faith. So for me, its the best of both worlds that I appreciate your content for. Its helped me grow in my faith while also enlightening me in areas I lacked, and allowing me to stay up to date on things happening in the world. You've lowkey become the place I get news lol
I listen to two people multiple times a week. You and Matt Chandler so my first reaction to this was complete shock! I am all for church discipline especially when it comes to the pastor setting the example. but the more that comes out about this..and I am happy that as of now it seems like this is all it was… maybe the elders overreacted? I would assume his elders are older and might not have a pulse on social media or the narrative. Speaking of a narrative…given the recent stories coming out about the SBC and sexual misconduct…since this appear to NOT be that at all..Maybe we handle this a different way. It’s almost like he was being fed to to wolves (media and society). I understand now what they meant by frequent and familiar convos in the DMs with a woman not your wife. Not a good look for any married man. But maybe address, take a few weeks off and then keep it moving. Doesn’t surprise me about the drinking jokes tho. He talks about how a steak and a good cab is a great blessing from God about once every 4 sermons lol thanks for all you two are doing. Love the dynamic you two bring!
Transparency is always the best policy. If you're going to talk about it then talk about all of it. Leaders attempting to be transparent, you need to leave as little as possible up for interpretation. Share everything. If you have cultivated a community of grace, which I believe should be a goal for Christian community, you should not hold back. Offer your disciples the opportunity to live out what you have been leading them in. Remember the scriptures say to confess your sins one to another. Pastors are held to a higher standard and thus more is required. Confess it all to your followers. Pastors ask their followers to sacrifice, volunteer, donate money, etc... Just be honest and open with us.
One other thing that I was grateful for, was the woman who followed Matt 18 and confronted Matt directly. But I do understand that the boundary was blurred.the elders may have felt it was a judgement issue.
What the world did this even come out to the general public when both spouses knew Matt and the lady were chatting? Whatever the case I think God will use it to better all those in it and those watching and wanting to grow in wisdom.
@@calebwalker1 if its no one's business they shouldn't have said anything at all to the congregation. If there is no sin in the exchanges then to have him publicly announce he is stepping down because of said exchanges is a gross overreaction of the elders. It is the apparent disproportionate response of the elders to the stated offense that has caused people to speculate there must be more going on. Releasing the DMs probably won't help now, if the problem really is it was just to frequent and off color joking then the Elders will come out looking like jerks for having him step down, if the dms are more than just frequent and off color jokes then Matt will appear to have down played the seriousness of the exchanges. Long story short Elders could have handled this in private, even they still wanted to sit him down they could have down so without mention of the dms and simply said Matt needed to take a break for personal soul care.
@@calebwalker1 Prove it to the millions of people affected by Matt's ministry and are wondering weather or not he is disqualified as a pastor. If the DM's were no big deal, and his wife and the other woman's husband knew about them, why would it be a big deal to share them. In Matt's own words to the congregation "I don't ever want there to be secrets between us." So just share the DM's so through transparency they can determine if there is more to the story or not.
@@tedpappas1559 no sir it’s not the business of millions of people. The sin was brought before the church body. They don’t need specifics and neither does anyone else.
@@reggie7716 I think I agree with almost everything you said. My only point here is that it’s not the general public’s business of the details. If the elder’s didn’t discipline him in a more harsh way, the church body doesn’t need to examine the details for themselves.
The Village church elders said they have felt lead to and have been shrinking the church for the past few years. Putting your Mega Star pastor on indefinite LOA is one way to do it.
The Billy Gram rule is sad and leaves little room for brotherly and sisterly relationships. I don't believe that men and women cannot be friends and should never talk alone or eat alone together. This is weird to think that if there was no sexual problem no sin going on that he needs to step down at all. ..
I totally agree... My pastor is a spiritual "big brother" to me and there are many times we're both alone in church working on things. Our talk is always about the things of God, and doors are always open as people are in and out of our church for different reasons all day. Also I have spiritual fathers that I have alone conversations with. I am young in ministry, hungry to learn, and most ministers around me are male. I am single, and have never been known to date or be into things like that, so maybe that helps my situation, I'm not sure. But I've always has close relationships with male friends in my life, just like I do females. So, just maybe every situation should be judged individually. 🤔
Im wondering, how did the friend, know about the messages? Why would this woman show or tell her friend, the Pastor was writing her? That's the part suspicious to me.
Doesn't seem weird to me at all. They both go to the same church. Completely realistically it could go down like this: One day the woman is talking to her friend and says "Matt text [this thing] to me the other day..." then the friend says "How often do you text Matt?" The woman says "we text all the time" then the friend says "That's not appropriate you need to stop." The woman says "What?! Why?! Stop being weird, we've done nothing wrong." Then the friend decides to confront Matt because she doesn't like them texting so often. Pretty simple, realistic, and straightforward.
It is a good rule for a married man to not have "unsupervised" contact with women other than your wife. There can be the occasional question or conversation, but it should be careful and not too frequent.
I love how you both are covering this, with both truth and grace. I feel for Pastor Chandler and everyone involved. There is way to much vitriol online from believers. [ For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. Galatians 5:13-15 ] Now when my wife heard the news, she expressed how irate she was with the woman's friend who confronted Pastor Matt. She feels that that church member should have asked to speak to Pastor Matt and Lauren, together with the woman being texted, instead of confronting him solo. My wife explained that the matter could've been instantly straightened out, instead of going this far. Personally, I thought that congregate was doing the right thing, but I had not considered that vantage point. Sheesh! What do you all think? What about if the DMs come out and prove that Pastor Matt was being a straight arrow?
Exactly! I totally agree with your wife. I said in another comment on this thread that it really seems like this "friend" was instigating and stirring the pot. Something doesn't seem right about how she approached him and went about it. Lauren should have absolutely been present. What was she thinking? Especially when the actual woman seemed to be confused by the friend's concerns.
I think the concern is a pastor being in any woman’s DMs that is not his wife or doesn’t include his wife on a familiar basis. Any wife/husband should not be doing this because it does not guard your marriage or your heart. It’s just inappropriate all around even if this woman did not take offense, it’s not becoming of a pastor. Not saying he should have been admonished publicly but this behavior should be corrected when it’s found in any of us Christians.
I agree, ruslan. You got a big platform, it's best to just be upfront with whatever it is, if not ... There's grounds for speculation which can be way far from the initial accusations
Ive been watching Ruslan for years like... Long hair Russ, John Keith(Zach let me get a whoop) so I watch No matter what content. I did the how to study your bible course. It's some of us that's been Rockin Rockin 😁
It’s crazy how cancel culture has invaded the church…. When most of our Bible involves flawed people making terrible mistakes. (We’re still living in the aftermath of Abraham’s choices.) Leave it to us… Paul, David, and countless others would’ve been unfit to have a platform. I think it’s time we start being more amazed by what God has/is doing through flawed people. The church has created idols out of our charismatic leaders.
It doesn't matter how innocuous some think it was. He is no longer "above reproach " period. He crossed a line that he knew not to. He will never be above reproach again. We cannot overlook the fact that the elders made him step down. No matter what, the damage is done. He lost his pastoral privilege. 1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6-7
I attended the village church on and off since I was in college (because college was away from Dallas) and I have to say Pastor Matt Chandler's joyful outlook on the Gospel and His love for breaking down concepts in the Word of God literally grew me biblically. Even after transferring Colleges and moving to another state, I would listen to His sermons on the village church website and I would feel the presence of the Holy Spirit as I'm lead to journal and pray in those moments. My times in the Village church set a very powerful foundation for the spiritual standards I have today and I believe strongly that God used Matt Chandler to advance HIS Kingdom here on earth and will continue to use Him. He's human like everyone else and the church moved really fast to nip this in the bud! This is by far, the most responsible I've ever seen any Church discipline involving a high profile pastor (he doesn't even regard himself as that).
Lol even after the church said that there was nothing sexual people thought it was adultery? OK, I guess I see the angle. I on the other hand was worried that course joking meant something like cuss words or some sort of slurr. I'm glad we were all wrong because there are so many scandals about pastors that have done the absolute worst things behind the scenes😮💨
Matt did sin, he’s a smart guy, he walks with the Lord and has the wisdom to know he sinned in his heart by messaging her regularly and beyond what a brother/sister in Christ would do. Her telling him not to apologize is a red flag for me about her. She was probably enjoying his attention, but that’s just me speculating. He did apologize, he got up there and apologized and admitted his sin. The elders, and Matt did everything right in this situation. To the world something like that is harmless, but we know it’s not, and Matt knows now that it wasn’t. I love him and his humility and wisdom and I will be glad to see him back when the time comes.
If they approached him privately and he apologized and wanted to change his behavior there was no need to make this public. Like you guys are saying there was no sin. They made this bigger than it was and doing during regular church assembly instead of just with members. It broke my heart to see the way this was handled. In any case power to him for his humility.
I sort of agree. But in todays time, people are clout chasers and if YOU don’t go public with something, the clout chaser will. It doesn’t seem like she is a clout chaser so perhaps this is the one time that the decision to go public may have not been best. Great comment. Thank you!
Dude. the second i heard this story break and some of the details i had a feeling that this was not handled correctly. i immediately felt bad but i had to hold off on my conclusions due to not knowing the details of the DM's. But preston sprinkles statement made all my worst fears come true. VIllage church elders really screwed this up
I think the elders made the right move. The last thing the church needs is another RZIM situation where everything is swept under the rug and the problem escalates beyond inappropriate.
I can’t be the only one kind of weirded out by this right? “Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.” (1 Tim 5:1-2). Mind you, this was told to Timothy, a church leader. Women should be considered as SISTERS, not things leaders should stay away from. If it’s not in purity (which, depending on the jokes, it could be an issue) then why is it bad? The Billy Graham rule doesn’t seem at all biblical, we should be seeing each other as family, in all purity. If lust, impurity, other evil intents, etc are popping up, then the individual needs to take that up with the Lord for healing and of course take steps to stay away from temptation. But making women people leaders can’t talk to is way too dangerous and flawed biblically. If you can’t talk to a woman and see her in purity, as a sister, somethings wrong with your own flesh and shouldn’t be used as an excuse to isolate more than half of your congregation I do agree though, it’s super weird to be constantly DMing a married man, and I personally wouldn’t no matter how pure it is out of respect for his wife. I love my sisters AND brothers in the church, we need to find a way to balance all of this in a way that’s honoring to everyone
I watch you because your well balanced growing christian Brother WHO ive grown with myself over the last few years…. You aint perfect but no one is … your channel HAS HELPED ME GROW SUBSTANTIALLY
With this coming out, it just further highlights the religious spirit that flows in the church, if there is anything to be said I feel like that is one of the more prominent things coming from this situation
I’m a young pastor. Reminded of Paul’s words to Timothy as you said what you said about young pastors. Trying to reconcile that with the natural course of life. Everyone has to start somewhere. Thanks for judging my character before even knowing me!
Yes, I thought that was a very silly and hurtful thing to say. Also, young pastors like you can often relate and appeal much more too younger people, which is a blessing.
I think when the man Preston(?) said what he said, he wasn’t throwing anyone under the bus. To the contrary he was saying, if we’re going to put disciplinary action on people for essentially doing nothing, then there’s no one who can speak then.
Hi Ruslan I would say the elders had been monitoring Matt, spoken to him a time or two, but took no action until Matt came to them. I give Matt credit for going to them and not the other way around which happens alot. Maybe they were heavy handed but look how much conversation, videos, and discourse has come out of this situation which is good, helps us self reflect where we are at, I hope anyways.
It should have been handled privately. does not matter whether it a mega church or not. at most it should have been something within his congregation solely.
Idk I think that feeds more in to idea that the church is trying to pull the rug over things... This was full transparency, and anyone who judged unrighteously heaps judgement on themselves.
@@charitybrook6279 I can understand the intentions may have been to be transparent. Its still not the biblical way to handle things. That should be more important than 'what people may think'.
So do you think Matt was guilted into saying things like "I'm glad the elders got involved so quickly and didn't let what was going on with me unaddressed" (not a precise quote) but he did seem to agree that there was something wrong with messaging that woman that maybe he was even blinded by
Does it ULTIMATELY matter what PR strategies the church uses in their wording? Or does it ULTIMATELY matter for a church to practice discipline for falling short of expectations? It's the latter...God will see His bride through all things. It's up to each congregation to seek God in conduct.
This whole controversy is super vague...on top of the (usual) problem of people not making basic distinctions (e.g. forgiveness vs accountability; sin vs temptation; flock vs pastor; etc).
I used to go to the Village all the time. Always loved Matt Chandler’s sermons. However, him saying he doesn’t ever hang out in the lobby before or after the service, that is not accurate. I remember several times Matt walking around the chapel before the service would start and he would be talking to all sorts of people. Men, women, nothing bad. I remember I walked by him while he was talking to a man. I kind of recognized him up close and he saw this and kind of jokingly looked at me as if to say, “yep, I”m standing here… “. Lol. Also, once I was waiting for my cousin to get off a plane at DFW. It was 5:00 am ish and Matt and his wife and kids were walking out and headed towards their car in the parking lot. I yelled out my window, “Hi Matt! I go to The Village and I love listening to you preach!” He about ten yards from me and he stopped dead in his tracks and conversed with me for about 2 or 3 minutes. His wife and kids kept walking and were long gone before I said, “Well, I will let you be with your family. I am sure you are tired.” Then, he left. So, no he never flirted with me and he doesn’t even know me, but he does like to talk to his church and everyone in it.
There was a prophetic word recently by Julie Green stating that God said judgement is coming to the earth and His church is first. If you’re saved, get right with the Lord. The judgement is getting ready to fall on the wicked. If there are Pastors that are misleading their flocks or sinning like this, they are being dealt with.
I thought the Billy Graham rule was supposed to protect people from adultery. Ruslan mentioned something about “violating the Billy Graham rule” I was unaware that it was another commandment. I think the rule is supposed to be wisdom, not law. I mean of course any church can have their own standards and bilaws they want, but come on, this whole thing seems excessive and over blown. Leaders are called to a higher standard, not a perfect standard.
It's like I've been saying. He probably didn't do anything wrong but he put himself in a position that he could have potentially done something wrong. Thats it. And from what I know of his character, even that was an unlikely possibility.
A number of years ago I found text between my husband and a "friend" from the gym. They both said they were just friends. She said she wasn't going to have anything to do with him. He said that they weren't going to talk to her anymore on the phone or gym. I had to find trust and get over my jealousy. A few years later my husband told me he wasn't happy and left. A couple of weeks later my 15-year-old son told me that he was living with his girlfriend. A neighbor told me who lived in the house my son had on find my phone. It was the "friend" from the gym. It always starts out innocent.
Wow I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I hope you and your family are doing better. ❤️ prayers and blessings ❤️
I kept hanging on to hope that this story had a happy ending.
I'm so sorry for your experience..but this has nothing to do with Pastor Matt..however, I understand your concept of the "small foxes spoil the vine."
@@ladydean87 I don't think my ex set out to leave his family. I think he justified his actions along the way and was enticed by the devil. I wished he had a big wakeup call like Pastor Matt just received. It's little by little that one is lead to sin.
'' a little leaven leavens the whole lump '' I'm sorry this happened to you, may the Lord bless your faithfulness, stay strong and on the narrow road !
I established a "friendships" with a single coworker years ago, she was attractive and recently single. At the time we exchanged numbers as coworkers strictly on a professional basis. But very quick it started to.branch out into texting, messaging, her complaining about her ex boyfriend and me thinking I was just a friend offering advice. But I started to develop a crush on her, and the texts while never sexual or flirty became friendly, and regularly, started snap chatting, lots of smiley emojis, silly jokes back and forth. I was treading on very dangerous territory. Until she called me one night to complain about her ex boyfriend, it understandably upset my wife. It could have sprouted into inappropriate behavior soon but I was too naive to see it. Almost cost me my marriage, it wasn't worth it. She's long gone. Since then, I've implemented the Billy Graham rule when it comes to female coworkers.
Important lesson to learn from, for all of us.
It's easy to fall into because it almost always starts innocently. One of my best girlfriends admits that she essentially cheated on her fiance at the time with one of her male coworkers even though they never had an affair or relationship. Her engagement was to a toxic man, so instead of ending her relationship, she threw herself into, what started out as an innocent, friendship with her "work husband" (I've always shuttered at that phrase because I cannot joke about being someone else's wife or having a different husband). Anyway, her coworker fell in love with her and finally admitted it to her and pressed her to leave her fiance for him. It was then that she realized that while she had never had a romantic relationship with her coworker up to that point, that she had essentially cheated on her fiance by leaning on her coworker for emotional support and whatever else she was lacking in her relationship with her fiance. Fortunately, she ended it with both of them and never actually cheated, but she also ended her engagement after realizing how unhealthy that relationship was. Now she's married to a great Christian man and has a beautiful family. God worked it all out for her in the end, and now her testimony and story is profound--especially because it deals with a topic that many people don't want to acknowledge in their own lives.
I don’t understand these loose standards when people are married. My wife isn’t allowed to have another man’s number in her phone. I’m not allowed to have another woman’s number in my phone, let alone talk to another woman.
@@BeingConsciousness-yw3zw It's true, it was inappropriate on my end. I was walking a very thin rope and it could have gotten worse if I wasn't confronted
What is emotional cheating?
As an Elder of a SBC Church I do agree with Ruslan that this was a lose-lose situation. I think Matt did the right thing in going to the Elders, and I think the Elders probably knew he needed a break. Given that the source close to Matt is true, I think the situation is a bit overblown, especially in the media. I am guessing the church didn't expect for it to gain national media attention. (This seems to be an oversight by them) I don't think the Elders did anything wrong, but I think the Elders probably could have met with all parties and dealt with it internally without making it public. Not all Elder decisions need to be broadcasted in the public eye. If members had questions they could have came to the Elders personally. The Elders still could have given Matt say a 6 month sabbatical and a majority of this could have been addressed without it becoming explosive. If there really wasn't deep sin here I don't see why it needed to be brought up in a vague way to the public. That only gave the media fuel for their fire. Had the Elders been a bit more specific I think the spin in the media wouldn't have been so bad. Sadly, if all of this is true, then the backlash alone has probably done worse things for the perceived credibility of the gospel than Matt's sin did. If anything though, I am glad it has raised some tough questions we all need to work through. Thanks for the update.
Sooo well-said🙌🏼🙌🏼💜💜
Exactly my sentiment
Very well said. I pray Matt and more importantly the kingdom can recover. It did shine the light on how rude and evil believers can be
I completely agree. They really messed up with making this thing so public. The internet ate Matt Chandler.
TOTALLY AGREE 🙏🏽
Oh this hurts my heart. Honestly, it seems like this "friend" was instigating and was really stirring the pot. The silver lining in all of it is that Matt has received the gift of humility. It makes me sad to see him, his wife and kids get dragged through the media like this though. But humility is always a gift. God reveals Himself in beautiful, comforting ways through humility. I trust God that He will meet Matt (and company) deeply and lovingly in this horrible situation. That's the kind of God we serve. Full of mercy, comfort, grace and peace. Praise His name!
@Lee Higginbotham thank you! Bless you too!
This is one of the best perspectives/reminders I’ve seen in a very long time. Thank you for saying it!
@@plowandswordhomestead thank you sister!
Amen.
He didn't appear humble to me. More like self pity.
Unfortunately, in the age of Social Media and the fact that even Christians feel like they have to do these "reaction" videos and have podcasts on the regular, I am not particularly surprised that even the church has started to form opinions based off of minimal information, begin to gossip, etc. The church is becoming more and more like the world when it comes to the whole Social media piece. This is the reason that I have begun to unsubscribe to MANY of the Christian youtubers. The bottom line is that the content is less edifying and more like gossip.
Thank you for articulating my thoughts. I have screenshotted you message to use.
Amen Amen!!! What if all our sins were put on display before our brethren & potentially the world… would you pray for Pharisee type rebuke or Christ like repentance call to sin no more?
Both have a discipline aspect & a call to change from where you are.
Greater was no distance between God & ourself prior to Christ accepting us at our repentance. Even still Christ is willing to accepted us in our repentance. Be careful putting a measure on or between your sin an another’s.
@@Jonathan_Gen.15.6
I agree with you completely with regards to this, I am no better. Honestly, at least in my mind, my intent was not to make myself appear to be more righteous. I do try daily to "examine" myself or judge myself so I would not be judged". Interesting that you should bring this up as I read this verse recently, 1 Corinthians 11:31 and it reminded me of a phrase that has become more popular over the last couple of years, "self awareness". Interesting that the Bible talks about so many things before they become popular in modern culture. At any rate, my intent was rather to call out that along with the focus on Social Media, comes it's brothers and sisters, one of which is the reporting of all that is going on in the world. I believe that there is a really fine line between discussing relevant topics which may be helpful and build us up in our faith and simply "reaction" videos which is almost an expectation if you are a content creator. Think about how many have reacted to this news and how that how many false assumptions have been made because of it. Did the rehashing of the same news over and over and over again benefit you spiritually? It could be different for everyone but I am honestly growing rather tired of hearing about it. Anyway thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate your thoughts.
Please share the ones that you are still subscribed to. I am also doing cleansing and purging
Can't agree with you more. Pastors should not have any personal social media account. If the platform is effective, it should only be ran by the church (staffs). Pastors should also refrain themselves from Facebook, Twitter and instagram. They're all nonsense to me.
IF Matt did ONLY what they said, the elders were completely wrong. According to Mat 18:15-20, this should have been handled privately. It only reaches public if he resists repentance. The Media blow up is the result of NOT following scripture by the elders. You handle minor things with a word to the wise. This moved to "punishment" for an offense that does not seem to demand punishment. Either they slandered him and embarrassed everyone OR there is real sin here that they are NOT addressing.
Just wanted to correct part of the conversation. Matt is a super social guy, if you ever have been to The Village Church, from the moment the pre service prayer/meeting is complete, he is in the lobby, or walking around the sanctuary talking with everyone basically until the service is starting. He doesn’t seem to fit the normal mega church pastor shell. I think the elders here were being overly cautious, crappy situation. But props to Matt for not just ignoring it and taking it strait to the elders, even though it led to some crap.
I hear you, and it seems to be so hard for men in Christian leadership to be friendly with everybody without people giving them a side eye when they are talking to women, etc. Here's the thing, though. There are safeguards that you can put up.
For example, I attend a church with a relatively young pastor. He is in his late 30s. Married with four kids. He has no social media. The church has a social media account, and they let him know what's posted on there.
I have noticed that although he is very friendly, he keeps up certain protective barriers when it comes to dealing with young women--and people in general, frankly.
For example, he does not give out his phone number. Communication with him is done either in person at church or via email which his staff can actually access at any time. They don't regularly peruse his emails, but they have access to them if that makes. Not only does that help him balance his schedule, be responsive to things that might slip through the cracks, etc. but it also provides transparency in all messaging between him and anyone emailing him.
He is not approved who just won't talk to or hug the female members of his congregation, but he definitely keeps up various to protect himself and has a circle of older men who help to keep him accountable. I respect it.
I've been a believer for more than half my life now. A sinner saved by grace through faith. Good job elders for saving Matt from a blind spot that we all can have. Good job Matt for submitting to church discipline. If a wife is that free to talk to over men its not a good sigh. But I'm probably in the minority as a Christian theses days. Any questions ask Mike Winger,no joke.
Church discipline can ONLY happen biblically if the person refuses to repent of clear sin. Jesus made this clear. In fact you have to have two or three witness to the SIN. In the OT you had to have eyes on an actual act of adultery. It's important to read the Bible and trust it that we don't need to add to it. It's not easy.
Love Mike Winger!
I have a PR background, and his statement along with the elders' statement struck me as the kind of vague language that a law firm would use because when law firms make public statements they tend to use broad language rather than specifics because their goal is to protect their client rather than provide information or concerns about public perception. I think a PR consultant would have caught the implications of their statement due to the vagueness of it and recommended a more forthcoming approach that would have left less room for speculation, so it seems like they may have gotten their wording from the law firm.
If the information you have is accurate, it's unfortunate that the church chose to use such vague language because I doubt they even thought about or anticipated the public backlash. Not that churches should hire "image consultants" but in some cases it might be beneficial to consider the best way to provide truthful information in a way that doesn't damage trust, both within the church and to the public, since Matt Chandler does have a ministry that reaches beyond his church.
I think they would have benefitted from giving the duration the messages went on, defining what they meant by crude or foolish joking, for example saying that it was about alcohol, and then referring to the Scriptures against it, and defining what they meant by familariy, that he was making these jokes to someone he didn't know very well. I think "familariy" caused a lot of people to think some sort of emotional attachment and it doesn't sound like that was the case.
However, there are always people who are going to assume the worst no matter what, even amongst Christians.
Y'all may be right that this was part of a larger issue the elders saw, and they very well may have discussed that with him and opted not to make those details public and saw an opportunity for him to step down for a bit to work on those things. If that's the case, it's unfortunate that the vague language was used that made it sound like there could be more to the story or that he was on the road to an emotional affair and the elders stepped in before it got that far.
I do think that there is an element of this that does involve the "celebrity pastor" and mega church culture that we can't overlook.
Well said “words of wisdom”. 👏🏼👏🏼
Very well put
To agree with the rest of the class, well said. Part of my walk with Christ has been learning not to idolize pastors, particularly my own. It allows me, through the grace of God, not jump to overly negative or overly positive conclusions about these situations. I had a feeling that the texting between Matt and this young woman wasn't as bad as it sounded, but I'm not surprised at all this was his Church's reaction. I've been listening to Matt Chandler for a while now, and he does go pretty hard LOL but I can deal with how hard he goes, as long as they hold themselves just as accountable. The fact that that he went to the elders about this tells me he at least he's s trying to hold himself as accountable as he would his congregation. He probably looks at all of this backlash as the consequences of his own sin. If he never texted this woman in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Unfortunately, sadly and tragically this situation exposed the hearts of many professing christians, regardless of the 'circumstances'. So many channels I commented on expressing concerns about gossip, slandering, busy bodying, and complete lack of grace, mercy and compassion for a brother (and his family), mentioning that we should be praying, submitting our thoughts, feelings and opinions to the filter of the Holy Spirit, were instead being flooded with comments of malice, gossip and even had people inserting their own 'experiences' onto the public forum as 'evidence' of the true 'heart' of either Matt's intentions or TVC's intentions. There was little or no evidence of a people who had 'supposedly' come out of the world, but instead exposed how very much the 'world' was still of greater influence. It was/is extremely telling on the 'church' body as a whole. We must always be checking our hearts and submitting everything to Jesus and letting His Spirit guide us and lead. Only one channel 'Pastor' openly prayed for Matt/TVC on live video! That could have been every self proclaimed christian channel, but alas, not so. Instead there was 'demand' to see the dm's! The Lord was, is and always will be, fully aware, able, competent and assuredly purposeful in every circumstance regarding His children, His church, His Bride - we must submit to Him. He will vindicate. He exalts and He brings down. He is Lord. And it will all glorify Him. I appreciate this video.
Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3
Amen, and well said 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
The bible says if you do something against a brother you go to that brother. The only time you take it to the whole church is if they don’t repent. It sounds odd that he would step down. Why not just apologize to the woman, get off social media, and move forward. Its like he’s making himself a Martyr .
@A P True.
I think in light of recent pastoral failings, they may have wanted to be extra cautious. I imagine they may handle it differently in the future, IF it occurs with anyone else.
@@gracetruthfreedom5068 I could totally see that.
@A P Why do you dislike him?
I went to HSU with Chandler and considered him a friend. I worked on the Grace Bible Study crew with him. He required very high standards for the crew and all I did was break down the set and direct traffic in the parking lot. I can with 100% certainty say that Chandler did not have any semblance of an affair. He was of the highest moral character 25 yrs ago and that has continued through his life. He loves his wife and his children and would never do anything like that. Could he have said something about drinking that might of been inappropriate to some? Sure I could buy that. God still has great things in store for this man. He's been sold out for Jesus since I've known the man!
Amen
100% 😳 dude anyone can fall. That's absurd to say
@@drosch777 not everyone will in a sexual way though. There are people who will never fall in that way. I think that’s a part of the enemy’s plan at this time honestly. I think he’s oppressing many with sexual temptations and therefore wants all these horrific stories coming out because he can try to make people feel like there’s no hope and like everyone has to be this way… essentially like Jesus has no real power to save, to set free and like God has no power to keep His people from falling as His Word says He can and will.
He would never? Yeah, I would have said the same thing about King David. Every person needs to realize that they absolutely COULD fall into terrible sin. People change over time & even people who have seemed the most godly people have been found to commit terrible sins. It is one of the reasons accountability & prayer are extremely important for Christians in general and even more so those in leadership. God bless.
I love Mike Winger ! But definitely the reason I like Ruslan KD is because he confronts controversial issues with courage and wisdom…no beating around the bush and no obvious kowtowing to a particular “group think”. It’s refreshing. Mike does that too. Objective and fair analysis. Keep it up!
That the spouses knew about this interaction really changed my view of what happened and to realize it was a discussion about drinking, not sexual content. This could have been handled better internally. There are all kinds of ministries within churches(children's, worship team, outreach) in which men and women volunteer together to make God known. We need to be gracious with one another realizing none of us has arrived. We need to allow some humor as long as it isn't ribald.
Facts...
No one really knows what happened because we haven't seen the conversation. The other issue is the track record at Village Church. The "grace" churches have taken great Liberty on their stand regarding alcohol.The lack of discipline "from these mature leaders "who can handle their drinking" as well as their lack of concern for creating a stumbling block for a weaker brother. Alcohol leads to loose standards which opens the door for this kind of controversy and worse!
@@dianalawrence8879 Agreed! I've seen alcohol cause terrible harm in my own family. Church leaders need to walk circumspectly to not cause those stumbling blocks for the weaker brothers.
Agreed! This is an age for transparency. Being vague leaves too much room for believing the worst. The church could benefit from more transparency overall!
No pastor should be dm’ing a woman let alone a married woman. Even if your own wife knows about it and it’s “totally innocent”. It’s called being above reproach.
I know I'm in the minority on this but I actually think they did the right thing in bringing it to the public for ONE reason...to stop the idea that the next bigger thing could just be handled in house. As Matt himself said do you know how easy it would have been to make this no big deal? And suddenly everybody thinks they can handle everything internally and that's where the trap comes in. Even the pastor starts think well this little thing was handled internally so if I do a big thing it's no big deal. I guess what I'm saying is it opens the door wider for more stuff to happen in the dark.
You are completely right! I appreciate how well you laid that out.
Zach is hilarious. So much chemistry between y'all. Thanks for breaking this down guys. I've followed every video you've done on this topic.
Although I was initially against them releasing the DMs, at this point, maybe they would do well to release at least some of them to clear Pastor Matt’s name as much as they can. There will always be those who will maintain their adamance against him and feel like there is more to it, but that will always be the case. Everyone has different experiences and biases and church hurt and various levels of spiritual maturity that affect how they perceive these types of things.
I think the elders did the right thing, Matt did the right thing, some of us Christians jumped to conclusion and judging based on no facts. Im sure they could had said it differently and done it differently but all that can be taken care by them coming back after all this and being clear about everything.
We should be praying that everyone does the wise thing and that may God continue to lead them in the right path.
people want to be the Pharisees quick to stone the girl who committed adultery instead of being like Jesus forgiving her
Yep. I would say most Christians I've met are like that sadly
I politely disagree. In today’s “me too” culture with all the accusations with the DOJ coming after the SBC directly over how pastors treat women, the elders should have been much more wise because this story didn’t blow up before Christians, it blew up before the entire country/unbelievers. Given what actually happened, their decision opened the door for confusion and the appearance of evil before those outside the faith. They didn’t consider social media and the fact he is a celebrity pastor. This kinda situation seems like a nothing burger from the start and, if so, should have been handled in house
Yeah I think it's interesting that everyone who was judging and condemning him without cause is now blaming the church elders instead of looking in the mirror at the problem.
You know .. one thing I hope we don't miss in the midst of all our questions about what the DMs said or opinions about how this should/should not have been handled is how Matt Chandler publicly allowed his broken and contrite heart to be seen by thousands of people. I mean that challenged me to ask .. "Does my heart break like that for my own missteps? For my own non-publicized sin?" Psalm 51 is a good reminder .. and remember that David was called "a man after God's own heart .." Thank you Matt for your transparency and brokenness on display .. regardless of "what" was in the DMs.
💯
"I'm embarrassed" and "I feel stupid" are words that come out of pride. He addressed how he feels. Emotions are deceptive. I think everyone in this mega church is responsible. I saw a well-planned course of manipulation with hopes of keeping his position. The modern church has become way too comfortable with familiar relationships. I also find the fact that she was a married woman and his wife was fine with this alarming. Lust is a blinding force and if something didn't happen beyond course talk; it is just a matter of time before it would have.
@@dianalawrence8879...how would have you handled it?
I guess my question is: did he really even sin?
@@macyerichsen7919 I think the question is was that appropriate behavior for a leader?
If that’s really ALL it was then it’s absolutely ridiculous that they chose to publicize this & ruin this man publicly, knowing full well this is an age or social media. Shame on that church for them for going about it this way instead of privately speaking to him about this.
I think that’s the problem. If the woman who got offended about it went and said something, it’d have REALLY been made into something it wasn’t and then Matt would REALLY have not been able to ever preach again. Sometimes we aren’t going to miss the trouble. We’re either going to have trouble or big trouble and I think that tried to keep it from being BIG TROUBLE.
@@siefoote I agree. And by trying to they actually created big trouble. They let fear direct their steps instead of just standing on what the truth was and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit on how to handle it with Matt and trusting that if public trouble some how came about, because the enemy is always lookin for a way to attack, that no weapon word or deed formed against them would prosper.
Yep. Satan is all over this but God will have the final word.
He shouldn’t be messaging women online period ! He’s a pastor !!
I've been really bothered by this whole thing. I understand that maybe he should avoid messaging women in general, but if the messages were not sexual, romantic, or flirtacious, then why was he made to stand in front of everyone (in person and online) and have to be made so embarrassed? He mentioned several times in his annoucement through tears how embarassed he was. I just don't think all that was necessary. The elder's could've spoken to him in private and spared him this public shaming in the media. I think the church made a huge mistake here.
It leaves me to believe there is more to the story.
I am starting to think the public announcement was not necessary...
He shouldn’t be messaging women . He’s married ! Why isn’t he messaging other men? That’s how cheating starts ! It starts “innocent” That’s how satan works.
I understand where you're coming from. Matt Chandler has always gone hard preaching the word, so I see part of this as him holding himself to his own standings. In addition, I do think his church shouldn't have been so vague in their statement. It left the door open for people to think it was more than it was. I don't think Matt Chandler was trying to make himself a martyr at all. I think he was genuinely that torn up about his actions. If you listen to him preach long enough, you would get that feeling about him and how he operates in his faith.
Yeah.... I'm on team -- they didn't do themselves any favors with the wording. On one hand it was "not romantic" but on the other hand, it was beyond a brother and sister relationship. Likewise, they are simultaneously saying he didn't do anything disqualifying, while taking actions as if he had done something disqualifying. They really made it sound like he was in an emotional affair, even though the direct wording was that the problem was the coarse joking. It's all very odd how it was worded. That's really all I could say about it... because I don't know enough details to discern whether or not their actions were an appropriate response. I can just say their actions sent a pretty confusing message. I assume, like most other situations, in time more details will come out and then we'll all have a better idea if the their decision based on the DMs was appropriate or extreme.
I agree it’s as if the elders are protecting themselves from scrutiny by not revealing enough details for the congregation to be able to properly judge if their decision was right while allowing full scrutinisation of Matt Chandler. I find that a little bit unauthentic
This saved Pastor Matt because there is a start to situations that can lead to more between a man and a woman.
Based on my very limited knowledge of the situation, the sin and the mistake in this case was how the situation was handled by the church leadership. This is NOT something that should be drawn out in the light. A correction in private is what is needed. The Billy Graham rule was to prevent a bigger rule being broken. The Billy Graham rule is not Gods rule, not even for a high profile pastor that keeps a higher level of accountability. All the spouses were aware of the communication and it was not an issue. The church leadership is making a mountain out of a mole hill and that is the greater issue here.
Totally agree!
It’s almost as if they had to prove something and it very much backfired.
Thank you! The phrase "the Billy Graham rule" is extremely grating.
Agreed. To me it doesn't look like the church leadership handled it well. To me it looks like they were purposefully setting him up for a fall. I could be wrong in this, but either way, it looks bad. Then there's the friend of the friend who somehow had access to the DM's and felt compelled to confront Matt Chandler about it. That's extremely meddlesome. Stirring up trouble where there is none. Unless we are all missing some important detail here they have succeeded in making a mountain out of a molehill.
@@j.c.5999 💯 I agree. Based on the information that we the public know, this sudden confrontation in the lobby after a sermon seems rather strange.
My heart breaks for Matt, his family & The Village Church. I applaud Matt & the Church for dealing with these issues in a Godly manner. This is a great example of how problems that arise, need to be addressed. It takes courage, humility & a genuine healthy fear of the Lord to stand up & be honest, transparent & accountable. I make mistakes daily & am grateful I can lay them at the feet of Christ without the world looking on & nailing me to the wall. This was clearly incredibly hard for Matt & seeing him choke back his tears brought home just how human we all are whether behind the pulpit or in the privacy of our own home. This will only make their family unit stronger, this is how God moulds us for the better, we power forward with a clearer understanding of our weaknesses & humility in our heart. God bless you guy’s & know that we are proud of you no matter what 🙏
True
Idk the situation fully, none of us do.. BUT you are absolutely right, we are all faulty and messed up if not for Christ. Even as Christians we are considered purified ONLY bc of Jesus, not bc we are awesome.. I too believe they are handling the situation properly. Prayers to all involved.
For years my son has told me to stay away from churches. He always claimed there are more christians outside of church than inside the church. I disagreed with him. Lately, many things have happened in churches, and I have now decided to join a group of christians who get together weekly and read/discuss God's word. No more gossip, etc for me. I have had enough.
Maybe the 2nd woman 'the friend' was jealous and wanted to start a tempest in a teapot
I think it needs to be a “leave your phone at the door” situation with the congregation and they’re owed a real explanation but the rest of us? I mean if we’re being honest with each other - it’s not really any of our business
I wish someone would’ve came in and got onto me when they knew I was getting attached to another woman. I wish they would’ve called me out.
Sounds like you lack self control. Things don’t magically get out of control because you were “too attached.” You made active choices. The end. Expecting someone else to stop you from a very active choice is the height of pride. Women are not your enemy neither are healthy relationships with them. Your flesh is the issue and that can only ever be your responsibility.
@@loganrobertson3299 WOW. Real lack of empathy from you. Of course it was MY choice. 100000% my choice. I made the decisions. Never said I didn’t. I allowed my sin and MY flesh control me. At the same time, I had brothers in Christ who saw the implosion and I wish they had helped me in the name of Christ.
I also made the decision to confess, repent, and live right. Along the way, I had men rooting for me and encouraging me.
From what I understand This isn’t a sin issue, it’s an “above reproach” issue. More of a, I allowed myself to have a “familiar” conversation with a married woman unguarded. Although it be “virtual” it’s like him as a pastor standing in a corner,alone, having a conversation with another woman. Not sin by nature just not fitting of a married man or woman. Just my thought…
True
You do realize women followed Jesus around & ministered to him? There was Mary Magdalene... Seriously, I feel people have gone over the top. So married men can't be friends w/women any more? To me, the only person to make a decision on this should have been his wife & if she trusts him enough to allow it & the woman's husband was ok w/it, there shouldn't have been a problem. I don't see why the elders didn't just communicate to him that they didn't like it & to stop it (privately)
He did exactly what he was supposed to do. The elders did what they were supposed to do. Pastors are held to a higher standard. I believe it was much of nothing! I believe what the elders did is to protect the pastor and the church. To give him time to let this die down and realize that unfortunately we live in a world where they look for anything to try to shred Christians. I don’t think he did anything wrong but something that could have twisted to a very bad situation. As Christians we just need to pray for all pastors and other Christians. Satan is using everything he can to destroy! We must not give him anything to work with. I also believe that they announced it because they knew that it would have been twisted to destroy the pastor and the church. I applaud the pastor and the church.
Meh. Matt says his wife knew and the ladies husband knew. There is more to the story.
A pastor messaging females online is SO INAPPROPRIATE! He absolutely did something wrong, especially because someone exposed him for it. Why is he messaging women making jokes ? He’s married AND a pastor.
Makes me wary of marriage and married couples. Don't joke, don't blink, don't wave......wow! Okay. Question. What's the "friend" doing in her friend's DM by the way? Love this channel too, by the way. Another question (which Zach already asked). Did this matter reeeeeeally need to have to be made public? On RUclips?!
No married man should be buddies with another woman. Why would you be wary of having standards?
It’s a matter of respect and devotion. Why would I even want to give my wife any room for doubt in my loyalty to her? Is it inherently wrong to talk to a person of the opposite sex as a married person? No. Is it unnecessary (especially in a private setting)? Absolutely.
@@IAMFISH92 did you forget when Chandler said both spouses knew about the relationship and knew about the chats? Does that not suggest to you then that something is being overstressed or overblown here? Y'all though! Look, whatever. Peace.
I know right...
Again I’ll say it again. They should have protected their guy. Once they came out with that publicly, they should have said exactly what happened. Protect your guy.
Yep, never should have been made public to begin with, no sin was accused so no public announcement was needed, this chould have been handled in private. It appears to be a big over reaction by the elders.
So I have been to The Village Church a few times because my mom attends there and every time I have been there and Matt is in town I see him talking to people in the aisles. Not closed away somewhere behind stage. I don’t see him as most untouchable mega church pastors which I really liked knowing my mom goes there.
That narrative is super confusing to me as well. His kids went to the school I worked at a few years ago and he happened to be walking in as I was walking out. He had no idea I’d been going to The Village some, but it was a super friendly and kind quick interaction.
This is the first time I think I ever heard of the Billy Graham rule. But I was always taught a married man should not spend time with another woman. Things can go south very easily. And what I say to you is if you find something like that happening, RUN FOR THE HILLS!
this is why i like your channel. you dont bash people or create fake narratives. you stick with facts and continue with a story as it develops. good journalism ruslan
1 Timothy 5:19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.
Biblically, maybe this should not have become an official matter putting such an weight on pastor Chandler's life. The woman who brought the accusation should first asked the elders for advise instead of approaching the pastor directly.
Agreed! She wasn’t right to go to the pastor. Wasn’t her place at all!
Sadly, stuff like this (not Chandler’s actions) but the Elders response and the way the Church as a whole has criticized and condemned Matt is part of the reason I’ve pulled back a lot and re-evaluated Cultural Christianity. I never had a problem with Chandler and if everything that was said is truth I don’t think he didn’t anything wrong.
As of late I have sensed God getting me back to the basics. I mostly read my Bible, stay involved in my local church and only follow a small handful of Christian RUclipsrs like you Ruslan and a few IG’er’s. I’ve un-followed a ton because of how toxic and questionable a lot of so called “Christian’s” have become in the Church.
Sadly as of late I just feel like even the Church (not as a whole but quite a lot) have become toxic and need to be kept at a distance. It’s getting harder and harder to do this Christian walk when you’re genuinely serious and committed to your faith when many others aren’t or a bit sus.
Just my two cents. ✌🏻
Who else do you follow?
I actually had an extended back and forth twitter conversation with Matt Chandler when he was just getting famous. This is back when I was burning his sermons on CD. He helped me tremendously at a time when I really needed it so I may be a bit biased, but there are very few people on this earth as cool as Matt Chandler.
Situations like this are why you need more than Billy Graham rules. Jerry Jenkins talks about how physical hedges are vital but now you can be alone with a woman online or via text. His wife should have access to his phone and all online accounts except a church one so members don't have their privacy compromised. He could easily tell his church that he won't be alone with a woman in his office, door open or with a chaperone. If you need counseling he should have it chaperone. The appearance of inappropriate contact hurts the cause of Christ, his wife and his reputation. A woman never wants to hear, I saw your husband with so so at a restaurant or closed door office meeting or is texting your man. Even if nothing is going on it starts a mental war of its something going on. Trust is quickly destroyed, takes a long time to heal. You'll know it is not than friendship when you hear we are just friends. Just is the minimizer. Many times when you turn it around and ask can I have a friend like that or can I talk to your husband like that, the answer will be no. Then you know.
The problem with your argument is you are assuming trust was broken between spouses which was NOT the case here. As long as nothing inappropriate sexually or romantically is going on and both spouses of both parties are aware and comfortable with it, it’s literally not anyone else’s business. Period. His wife and him are allowed to set their own boundaries. Jesus wouldn’t pass the Billy Graham rule and that’s just a fact.
I think this whole situation has hurt the Church more than it’s helped…
False
I'm so excited that Preston finally had a conversation with Dr. Sandy Richter about Judges 4!!!! I absolutely love it when Christian podcasters discuss scripture!!!
Twitter acting like MC committed murder. People have to calm down.
Cool video!
Quick question: what is the difference between the Ruslan Channel and the Bless God channel?
Wondering the same. I haven't seen this channel before until today. 🤔
I believe that this Bless God channel is for the purpose of dialogue using more of a “podcast style” where he will sit down with individuals about various topics. I believe that the RuslanKD channel is where he does a monologue where he covers current events and issues. 1 channel is for discussion and to express his opinion and the other is to bring awareness to what’s going on.
What's up with Pastors who don't like to mix and spend time with their congregation? They like to "teach" and it just takes too much out of them to spend time with those who in effect pay their salaries? It's a trend here in South Africa as well and it mainly happens in the bigger churches.
The Elders and Matt Chandler did the right thing if the facts were presented accurately and truthfully. He stepped down bc after being confronted, even though he didn't think he had done something wrong, his conscious convicted him. He obeyed the Holy Spirit, good for him. Being above reproach, and having healthy boundaries as unto the LORD, no matter what other people think, say, or how they respond to it, is biblical. He is a public figure, and so he humbled himself, and made a public announcement to his church. I am encouraged that he didn't try to hide it or do things in secret. He owned it, whatever it is, and is seeking God for his "lack of judgment and wisdom". Personally, I don't necessarily think the messaging was a big deal, but I also understand the desire to want to be above reproach and the effects of anything I do being misconstrued breaks my heart. People jumping to negative conclusions and attacking him, display the need for Jesus. I am hoping that the elders actually were led by the Spirit, and if so, glory to God! If not, God's on it. Remember christians are nor the standards, the world is not the standard, we are not the standards, the Word of GOD is, Jesus is. I know that when God is involved that there is no darkness and no secrets and so if he is lying, that is between him and GOD. People need to mind their business and stop thinking so highly of themselves!
If only more people who call themselves Christians... if the people who are actually Christians would take the time to examine themselves and seek GOD when presented with allegations, even false ones, instead of becoming defensive or dismissing the complaint altogether. If Christians would be silent when attacked and pray instead. If Christians would morn at the mere droplet of potential sin in their hearts and lives that they didn't see, if we cared more about others and especially our brothers and sisters who are easily offended then our own images, agendas, and ministries?... I have no idea if any of it is real. But GOD does. And this whole thing makes me wonder if I am sensitive to the Spirit enough to not get angry at the person who is accusing me of something I didn't do. I actually had a conversation with the Lord last week as I was reading about my freedoms not being a stumbling block (which if they are telling the truth, is the case here) and I said GOD, "I don't know that I love people that much. Its not "fair" that I have to refrain from something forever because someone else is living in bondage. Why should I stop something that isn't sin, just because someone else may have different preferences or is legalistic and is just not free?" I know the answer. I am just sharing part of the conversation with the LORD where I complain about the privileges I have.. lol. And do I love the brethren enough to humble myself and ask God to help me see what I don't. The answer is no... I don't think I would have responded with this level of grace and humility... But my level of respect just sky rocketed. I pray that the truth and Christ has been at the center of all these events.
some of the scariest apologies come from people that are good with words
I go to a megachurch (Community Bible Church) in San Antonio, TX. The current head pastor was hired 4 years ago when he was 42 years old. So much healthier having a mature leader who’s identity isn’t paired with the church that he leads.
IMO, this was a very cautious action by the elders and chandler. The media is blowing this way out of proportion. Most pastors would not have been disciplined at all. Unless of course everyone is lying which is unlikely.
This isn't limited to Mega Churches. I've heard way too many stories of churchs/pastors covering up or downplaying these types of issues. They don't want to negatively affect the health of the church. So basically they are afraid of looking bad. It's sad.
People love it when others fall.. regardless of the facts, regardless if it’s true
Such an interesting perspective. I watch your stuff bc you bring a Christian perspective to what's happening in the world that is more thought provoking and also educative compared to just getting the info straight from secular people or news at times. But most importantly I love the Biblical perspective you bring and how you tie everything back to God, the Bible, & our faith. So for me, its the best of both worlds that I appreciate your content for. Its helped me grow in my faith while also enlightening me in areas I lacked, and allowing me to stay up to date on things happening in the world. You've lowkey become the place I get news lol
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
Prayers out for Matt Chandler and the ministry 🕊️
I listen to two people multiple times a week. You and Matt Chandler so my first reaction to this was complete shock! I am all for church discipline especially when it comes to the pastor setting the example. but the more that comes out about this..and I am happy that as of now it seems like this is all it was… maybe the elders overreacted? I would assume his elders are older and might not have a pulse on social media or the narrative. Speaking of a narrative…given the recent stories coming out about the SBC and sexual misconduct…since this appear to NOT be that at all..Maybe we handle this a different way. It’s almost like he was being fed to to wolves (media and society). I understand now what they meant by frequent and familiar convos in the DMs with a woman not your wife. Not a good look for any married man. But maybe address, take a few weeks off and then keep it moving. Doesn’t surprise me about the drinking jokes tho. He talks about how a steak and a good cab is a great blessing from God about once every 4 sermons lol thanks for all you two are doing. Love the dynamic you two bring!
This really looks like the Elders over reacted, and probably did more harm than good with the handling of this.
You better pray his elders are older smh
Transparency is always the best policy. If you're going to talk about it then talk about all of it. Leaders attempting to be transparent, you need to leave as little as possible up for interpretation. Share everything. If you have cultivated a community of grace, which I believe should be a goal for Christian community, you should not hold back. Offer your disciples the opportunity to live out what you have been leading them in. Remember the scriptures say to confess your sins one to another. Pastors are held to a higher standard and thus more is required. Confess it all to your followers. Pastors ask their followers to sacrifice, volunteer, donate money, etc... Just be honest and open with us.
One other thing that I was grateful for, was the woman who followed Matt 18 and confronted Matt directly. But I do understand that the boundary was blurred.the elders may have felt it was a judgement issue.
What the world did this even come out to the general public when both spouses knew Matt and the lady were chatting? Whatever the case I think God will use it to better all those in it and those watching and wanting to grow in wisdom.
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. Luke 8:17
If the DM’s were so benign they should just release them to stop any gossip and show that he is not disqualified as a pastor.
And prove it to who? Whose business is it outside of the board and his personal family?
@@calebwalker1 if its no one's business they shouldn't have said anything at all to the congregation. If there is no sin in the exchanges then to have him publicly announce he is stepping down because of said exchanges is a gross overreaction of the elders. It is the apparent disproportionate response of the elders to the stated offense that has caused people to speculate there must be more going on. Releasing the DMs probably won't help now, if the problem really is it was just to frequent and off color joking then the Elders will come out looking like jerks for having him step down, if the dms are more than just frequent and off color jokes then Matt will appear to have down played the seriousness of the exchanges. Long story short Elders could have handled this in private, even they still wanted to sit him down they could have down so without mention of the dms and simply said Matt needed to take a break for personal soul care.
@@calebwalker1 Prove it to the millions of people affected by Matt's ministry and are wondering weather or not he is disqualified as a pastor. If the DM's were no big deal, and his wife and the other woman's husband knew about them, why would it be a big deal to share them. In Matt's own words to the congregation "I don't ever want there to be secrets between us." So just share the DM's so through transparency they can determine if there is more to the story or not.
@@tedpappas1559 no sir it’s not the business of millions of people. The sin was brought before the church body. They don’t need specifics and neither does anyone else.
@@reggie7716 I think I agree with almost everything you said. My only point here is that it’s not the general public’s business of the details. If the elder’s didn’t discipline him in a more harsh way, the church body doesn’t need to examine the details for themselves.
The Village church elders said they have felt lead to and have been shrinking the church for the past few years. Putting your Mega Star pastor on indefinite LOA is one way to do it.
The Billy Gram rule is sad and leaves little room for brotherly and sisterly relationships. I don't believe that men and women cannot be friends and should never talk alone or eat alone together. This is weird to think that if there was no sexual problem no sin going on that he needs to step down at all. ..
Would love to hear your thoughts after you sit with the empirical data ruclips.net/video/eHImMoV9Doo/видео.html
I totally agree... My pastor is a spiritual "big brother" to me and there are many times we're both alone in church working on things. Our talk is always about the things of God, and doors are always open as people are in and out of our church for different reasons all day. Also I have spiritual fathers that I have alone conversations with. I am young in ministry, hungry to learn, and most ministers around me are male. I am single, and have never been known to date or be into things like that, so maybe that helps my situation, I'm not sure. But I've always has close relationships with male friends in my life, just like I do females. So, just maybe every situation should be judged individually. 🤔
Im wondering, how did the friend, know about the messages? Why would this woman show or tell her friend, the Pastor was writing her? That's the part suspicious to me.
I wondered the same thing! And why did the friend go straight to the Pastor?? Very strange to me....
Something is off
Doesn't seem weird to me at all. They both go to the same church.
Completely realistically it could go down like this:
One day the woman is talking to her friend and says "Matt text [this thing] to me the other day..." then the friend says "How often do you text Matt?"
The woman says "we text all the time" then the friend says "That's not appropriate you need to stop."
The woman says "What?! Why?! Stop being weird, we've done nothing wrong."
Then the friend decides to confront Matt because she doesn't like them texting so often.
Pretty simple, realistic, and straightforward.
@@joshuaphillips1081 exactly my thoughts
Why do married Christian men need women friends? Why do married Christian women need men friends?
Well, they may not need them but why shouldn't they have them? The rule should be that these friends also need to be friends with the other spouse.
It is a good rule for a married man to not have "unsupervised" contact with women other than your wife. There can be the occasional question or conversation, but it should be careful and not too frequent.
I love how you both are covering this, with both truth and grace. I feel for Pastor Chandler and everyone involved. There is way to much vitriol online from believers.
[ For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. Galatians 5:13-15 ]
Now when my wife heard the news, she expressed how irate she was with the woman's friend who confronted Pastor Matt. She feels that that church member should have asked to speak to Pastor Matt and Lauren, together with the woman being texted, instead of confronting him solo. My wife explained that the matter could've been instantly straightened out, instead of going this far. Personally, I thought that congregate was doing the right thing, but I had not considered that vantage point. Sheesh! What do you all think? What about if the DMs come out and prove that Pastor Matt was being a straight arrow?
Exactly! I totally agree with your wife. I said in another comment on this thread that it really seems like this "friend" was instigating and stirring the pot. Something doesn't seem right about how she approached him and went about it. Lauren should have absolutely been present. What was she thinking? Especially when the actual woman seemed to be confused by the friend's concerns.
@@OliveCandy38 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
I think the concern is a pastor being in any woman’s DMs that is not his wife or doesn’t include his wife on a familiar basis. Any wife/husband should not be doing this because it does not guard your marriage or your heart. It’s just inappropriate all around even if this woman did not take offense, it’s not becoming of a pastor. Not saying he should have been admonished publicly but this behavior should be corrected when it’s found in any of us Christians.
I really don’t think the elders didn’t do anything wrong. Glad to hear they checked his phone & didn’t find anything damning.
I agree, ruslan. You got a big platform, it's best to just be upfront with whatever it is, if not ... There's grounds for speculation which can be way far from the initial accusations
No one woman should have this much power
Ive been watching Ruslan for years like... Long hair Russ, John Keith(Zach let me get a whoop) so I watch No matter what content. I did the how to study your bible course. It's some of us that's been Rockin Rockin 😁
It’s crazy how cancel culture has invaded the church…. When most of our Bible involves flawed people making terrible mistakes. (We’re still living in the aftermath of Abraham’s choices.) Leave it to us… Paul, David, and countless others would’ve been unfit to have a platform. I think it’s time we start being more amazed by what God has/is doing through flawed people. The church has created idols out of our charismatic leaders.
It doesn't matter how innocuous some think it was. He is no longer "above reproach " period. He crossed a line that he knew not to. He will never be above reproach again. We cannot overlook the fact that the elders made him step down. No matter what, the damage is done. He lost his pastoral privilege. 1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6-7
Good analysis. It sure begs the question, why should frequency alone warrant a temporary dismissal
It shouldn’t.
I attended the village church on and off since I was in college (because college was away from Dallas) and I have to say Pastor Matt Chandler's joyful outlook on the Gospel and His love for breaking down concepts in the Word of God literally grew me biblically. Even after transferring Colleges and moving to another state, I would listen to His sermons on the village church website and I would feel the presence of the Holy Spirit as I'm lead to journal and pray in those moments. My times in the Village church set a very powerful foundation for the spiritual standards I have today and I believe strongly that God used Matt Chandler to advance HIS Kingdom here on earth and will continue to use Him. He's human like everyone else and the church moved really fast to nip this in the bud! This is by far, the most responsible I've ever seen any Church discipline involving a high profile pastor (he doesn't even regard himself as that).
Matt has been slowly slipping into apostacy for years now ...
Lol even after the church said that there was nothing sexual people thought it was adultery? OK, I guess I see the angle. I on the other hand was worried that course joking meant something like cuss words or some sort of slurr. I'm glad we were all wrong because there are so many scandals about pastors that have done the absolute worst things behind the scenes😮💨
Matt did sin, he’s a smart guy, he walks with the Lord and has the wisdom to know he sinned in his heart by messaging her regularly and beyond what a brother/sister in Christ would do. Her telling him not to apologize is a red flag for me about her. She was probably enjoying his attention, but that’s just me speculating. He did apologize, he got up there and apologized and admitted his sin. The elders, and Matt did everything right in this situation. To the world something like that is harmless, but we know it’s not, and Matt knows now that it wasn’t. I love him and his humility and wisdom and I will be glad to see him back when the time comes.
If they approached him privately and he apologized and wanted to change his behavior there was no need to make this public. Like you guys are saying there was no sin. They made this bigger than it was and doing during regular church assembly instead of just with members. It broke my heart to see the way this was handled. In any case power to him for his humility.
I sort of agree. But in todays time, people are clout chasers and if YOU don’t go public with something, the clout chaser will. It doesn’t seem like she is a clout chaser so perhaps this is the one time that the decision to go public may have not been best. Great comment. Thank you!
Dude. the second i heard this story break and some of the details i had a feeling that this was not handled correctly. i immediately felt bad but i had to hold off on my conclusions due to not knowing the details of the DM's. But preston sprinkles statement made all my worst fears come true. VIllage church elders really screwed this up
I think the elders made the right move. The last thing the church needs is another RZIM situation where everything is swept under the rug and the problem escalates beyond inappropriate.
I can’t be the only one kind of weirded out by this right? “Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.” (1 Tim 5:1-2). Mind you, this was told to Timothy, a church leader. Women should be considered as SISTERS, not things leaders should stay away from. If it’s not in purity (which, depending on the jokes, it could be an issue) then why is it bad? The Billy Graham rule doesn’t seem at all biblical, we should be seeing each other as family, in all purity. If lust, impurity, other evil intents, etc are popping up, then the individual needs to take that up with the Lord for healing and of course take steps to stay away from temptation. But making women people leaders can’t talk to is way too dangerous and flawed biblically. If you can’t talk to a woman and see her in purity, as a sister, somethings wrong with your own flesh and shouldn’t be used as an excuse to isolate more than half of your congregation
I do agree though, it’s super weird to be constantly DMing a married man, and I personally wouldn’t no matter how pure it is out of respect for his wife. I love my sisters AND brothers in the church, we need to find a way to balance all of this in a way that’s honoring to everyone
I watch you because your well balanced growing christian Brother WHO ive grown with myself over the last few years…. You aint perfect but no one is … your channel HAS HELPED ME GROW SUBSTANTIALLY
With this coming out, it just further highlights the religious spirit that flows in the church, if there is anything to be said I feel like that is one of the more prominent things coming from this situation
Exactly...
You guys really have me cracking up!! Love the humor and great conversations and insights y’all bring!! 😆❤️
I'm sure he did nothing wrong, never went too far, never done this before, and that Santa Claus is real!
I’m a young pastor. Reminded of Paul’s words to Timothy as you said what you said about young pastors. Trying to reconcile that with the natural course of life. Everyone has to start somewhere. Thanks for judging my character before even knowing me!
Yes, I thought that was a very silly and hurtful thing to say. Also, young pastors like you can often relate and appeal much more too younger people, which is a blessing.
I think when the man Preston(?) said what he said, he wasn’t throwing anyone under the bus. To the contrary he was saying, if we’re going to put disciplinary action on people for essentially doing nothing, then there’s no one who can speak then.
Hi Ruslan
I would say the elders had been monitoring Matt, spoken to him a time or two, but took no action until Matt came to them. I give Matt credit for going to them and not the other way around which happens alot. Maybe they were heavy handed but look how much conversation, videos, and discourse has come out of this situation which is good, helps us self reflect where we are at, I hope anyways.
It should have been handled privately. does not matter whether it a mega church or not. at most it should have been something within his congregation solely.
Totally agree with you
Idk I think that feeds more in to idea that the church is trying to pull the rug over things... This was full transparency, and anyone who judged unrighteously heaps judgement on themselves.
@@charitybrook6279 I can understand the intentions may have been to be transparent. Its still not the biblical way to handle things. That should be more important than 'what people may think'.
Worthwhile observations, Guys - many thanks.
So do you think Matt was guilted into saying things like "I'm glad the elders got involved so quickly and didn't let what was going on with me unaddressed" (not a precise quote) but he did seem to agree that there was something wrong with messaging that woman that maybe he was even blinded by
No
I think he was submitting to the elders of the church. Take that how you will lol
Preston Sprinkle is a solid believer. I'd trust him over many big names. I'm glad the church handled it as they did. Strategically holy.
Does it ULTIMATELY matter what PR strategies the church uses in their wording? Or does it ULTIMATELY matter for a church to practice discipline for falling short of expectations? It's the latter...God will see His bride through all things. It's up to each congregation to seek God in conduct.
This whole controversy is super vague...on top of the (usual) problem of people not making basic distinctions (e.g. forgiveness vs accountability; sin vs temptation; flock vs pastor; etc).
I used to go to the Village all the time. Always loved Matt Chandler’s sermons. However, him saying he doesn’t ever hang out in the lobby before or after the service, that is not accurate. I remember several times Matt walking around the chapel before the service would start and he would be talking to all sorts of people. Men, women, nothing bad. I remember I walked by him while he was talking to a man. I kind of recognized him up close and he saw this and kind of jokingly looked at me as if to say, “yep, I”m standing here… “. Lol. Also, once I was waiting for my cousin to get off a plane at DFW. It was 5:00 am ish and Matt and his wife and kids were walking out and headed towards their car in the parking lot. I yelled out my window, “Hi Matt! I go to The Village and I love listening to you preach!” He about ten yards from me and he stopped dead in his tracks and conversed with me for about 2 or 3 minutes. His wife and kids kept walking and were long gone before I said, “Well, I will let you be with your family. I am sure you are tired.” Then, he left. So, no he never flirted with me and he doesn’t even know me, but he does like to talk to his church and everyone in it.
There was a prophetic word recently by Julie Green stating that God said judgement is coming to the earth and His church is first. If you’re saved, get right with the Lord. The judgement is getting ready to fall on the wicked. If there are Pastors that are misleading their flocks or sinning like this, they are being dealt with.
It came of as bad because Matt Chandler delivered it as so. He was tearful and dramatic making it seem more than it possibly it was.
“Shepherding” within a mega church is not possible.
I thought the Billy Graham rule was supposed to protect people from adultery. Ruslan mentioned something about “violating the Billy Graham rule” I was unaware that it was another commandment. I think the rule is supposed to be wisdom, not law. I mean of course any church can have their own standards and bilaws they want, but come on, this whole thing seems excessive and over blown. Leaders are called to a higher standard, not a perfect standard.
it's not a commandment but a wisdom issue.
I believe that had a really bad run with a leader who assaulted kids and then parents sued. Maybe it put them on edge for another allegation.
It's like I've been saying. He probably didn't do anything wrong but he put himself in a position that he could have potentially done something wrong. Thats it. And from what I know of his character, even that was an unlikely possibility.