The dead cat belt was the best part of the original Rat King figure. Maybe they balked at making a high-resolution dead cat belt. And then sanitized the look even more. And then somebody swapped the head out with a K-Pop render.
I was wondering this too. If they had to cut it back in fear of being offensive. If that was ever the case then I just don’t see the point in the line at all. Jump back into the style of the vintage line 100%.
It's weird because aren't these marketed specifically as adult collectibles? We all had the Playmates Rat King when we were like 5 years old too... any potential trauma has already been inflicted. 😆
So you're mostly spot on and I started investigating this when you mentioned it in a prior video. Re: Guerilla Gorilla/Sgt. Bananas. That wasn't a surprise move by Playmates. Flynn and Super7 actually do consult with lawyers before getting into these kinds of licenses. If you go back, Flynn ALWAYS said there were vintage figures they couldn't remake. Obviously there's stuff like Star Trek and Universal Monsters and things like Usagi and Panda Khan that are not owned by Nickelodeon. But Flynn gave "Forgotten Sewer" as an example of something they couldn't do. From the digging I was able to do, most TMNT were designed by Mirage Studios. Those designs are in Nickelodeon's archives. A licensee should theoretically be able to do them. In cases like Sgt. Bananas and Forgotten Sewer and the military Turtles, Steve Varner and others working for Playmates designed them. Playmates always owned those. Super7 knew before Wave 1 that they couldn't do those. The more recent interference by Playmates is about designs Nickelodeon owns. Playmates doesn't want Nickelodeon to use them or let licensees used them. I've confirmed that much with a confidential source at one of these companies. And from what I can tell, Playmates used its leverage regarding how much in sales they can do for Nickelodeon as a result of Seth Rogen's movie to pressure Nickelodeon. From what I can tell, they used the profits from Michael Bay movie toys to pressure Nickelodeon into scrapping the NECA Mirage line. I don't know specifics but I think it could be something to the effect of, "If you don't make your other licensees stop, we won't make movie toys for you and we'll sit on the license and you'll have a movie with no toy royalties." It's hard for me to grasp why Nickelodeon would play balk with that. Among other things, it may be illegal as a demand and Super7 could probably sue Playmates for tortious interference for doing that, as long as they're not worried they'll lose their license altogether for doing that. But Playmates is based in China so taking them to court may be tricky. I don't know. As for Rat King, a designer at Super7 said he's based on the Shredder's Revenge video game from last year. Look it up and you'll see at least some similarity. Final thoughts: NECA is apparently getting out of video game figures altogether, which may open a lane for Super7. Personally, I think if they're doing that, they should put TMNT Ultimates on hiatus and launch a TMNT Video Game Ultimates with a new wave 1. I think it would manage expectations better. Apparently from what I've read, Super7 can do toy designs but only when the toy designs have appeared in non-toy media or merch. They have to research a source to justify it with Nickelodeon, who can then justify it to Playmates. As for Classic Rocker Leo: I believe he's already a case of this happening. He has new accessories. He has a new belt buckle. And the four music Turtles appeared in a few places outside the Playmates line, including a 1994 Valentines Day card.
Truthfully, I don’t see any similarity between that figure and the Shredder’s Revenge design outside of somewhat similar hair. The scarf being yellow in the game, and being green in the figure is a glaring example of Super7 just back pedaling.
Thanks for writing that all out! It’s crazy that Nickelodeon would allow Playmates to push them around like that. As much as I loved Playmates as a kid, sometimes I wish they didn’t have the master license anymore. Partially because of these demands and also because I think they’re toys have had a sharp decline since the 2012 series. Chris Fawcett today said that the VP of Playmates told him that they do not own any of the original designs, but also did not deny that Playmates put the complaint in.
End of an era. Super7 was killing it recreating the original sculpts and updating the paint and joints. Sad Love your channel, dedication, research and time put into the history of Tmnt. Keep up the great work! Cheers from colorado
Raz I really appreciate the content you post as it's super detailed and added personal stories. Comparisons are definitely good too. Keep up the awesome videos. Do it for the passion not for the views. They will come.
The Playmates rumor makes a ton of sense, and I really hope they back off and let Super7 shine like they have with some of the previous waves… As for the Rat King: I was also considering cherry picking the wave for the first time, but I justified getting him by making a head canon that Super7’s version of Rat King was him first deciding to be a crazy rat guy that lives in the sewer and playmates sculpt is him later in life….I’m so glad you mentioned making a sculpt even crazier than Playmates because that was my first thought when I saw the pics, and I really hope that’s what they do in the future!! Also….WHATS UP WITH KARAI??? This whole thing was confusing, but I still have hope the line can course correct! Also also….great video! Loved hearing your opinions, and appreciate how in depth you are! Keep up the amazing (and entertaining) work!!!
Thank you! I like your idea for Rat King a lot actually. That was always the great thing about toys back in the day. Just coming up with reasons why you might have 3 different Batman’s or Leonardo’s haha. Different suits, different dimensions, someone else was in disguise as them, it all worked when you were playing.
My biggest fear is.. this is the tip of the iceberg. Every interview they say they are already working on 3-4 waves in the future. That means we haven’t even begun to see what this means for this line.
They should have done important characters like Rat King and General Traag a while ago before they had to change up their designs. The way things are now, what's the point of continuing to collect these? The new designs won't fit with the Ultimates we already have. And if we're just going for cartoon looks, NECA's already got that covered for cheaper.
I agree. I don’t think anyone will ever top Neca at the Fred Wolf game. I didn’t mind getting all of the mutants we got already, but when you think of all the figure variants we got so far it kills you to think how Traag and Rat King should have had those spots.
I suspect the main characters were being drip fed to maintain steady sales but, with hindsight, it's such a shame that in 9 waves, they couldn't have just got to doing the full roster from those first 2 series. I appreciate Usagi Yojimbo was always in doubt because of licensing but not to have a Traag and Rat King in the same style is so disappointing.
Great Video with some Great Insight!! The Super 7 TMNT Ultimates line has been such a fun line and breathe of fresh air into these nostalgic designs. Unfortunately it seems like Playmates jealousy & meddling has really disrupted that for turtle fans. I think for this line to continue to succeed, S7 needs to pivot & focus on the popular turtle characters that didn’t get releases during the original Playmates line in that art style. Wave 10 does a couple of interesting things in Ninja April & Mirage Casey, but you can’t convince me this is the Ultimate Version of Rat King. Where are his accessories? 3 rats and a flute?? That’s it? While a popular character with fans this one may need a little bit of a rework.
I've been pivoting away from Super7 in general due to expense and QC lately but I still have a few of the TMNT coming up that I gotta have so it's a bummer to see the changes. It definitely looks like whoever made these also made the GI Joe figures, they look like they belong together more than with the older S7 ones. At least this will open up myself to go all in on the Mirage NECA line and not feel as guilty (not like I already wasn't going to...).
If they do change sculpts.. At the very LEAST they need to sculpt tons of detail into the figures to match the aesthetic of the original figures.. aka the whole reason for this line and match the previous waves of figures
This is all so strange... You'd think they'd have had an agreement worked out with Playmates from the beginning with how closely the Ultimates adhered to those original designs, but all of a sudden they said no? It just doesn't make sense to me. Edit- what's the story with Playmates, NECA & the Mirage Turtles? I've been hoping for a reissue of those given all the cool new Mirage figures they've been producing.
I don’t know. You’d think they would have remade them since they’ve been putting out so many mirage figures lately. I bet a lot of people would buy them in a heartbeat.
I was passing on stuff from the NECA toons line assuming we'd eventually get to it here. But I think I'll have to switch over. The toon line has good character depth and consistency, and that makes or breaks a line. Ultimates are still very rad, and I have stuff pre-ordered through wave 9, but I'm looking at NECA to be my main display line at this point,m so playing a little bit of catch-up.
I think it would be appropriate if super7 came out and give there fans a straight up answer as to what's going on. I think it would be the respectful thing to do specially to us who have been loyal fans since the beginning.
Yo, Gary, I agree with most of what you say here, with the one exception that playmates is somehow in the wrong here. You’re in a creative job as well, from what I gather? Imagine you had designed all those figures in the 80s and 90s. Wouldn’t it seem weird that Super7 can just take all your old designs, make them bigger, add some details, and just rerelease them without paying you a dime? If it’s true that Super7 never gave a cut to Playmates, that’s kinda what happened to Playmates/Varner these last few years. Wouldn’t that seem unfair? To me, the original Playmates Turtles figures are the greatest line of action figures of all time. Pretty much every figure is iconic and holds up 30 years later. Let’s say they’re the Beatles of action figures. Super7’s ultimates line is like a Beatles cover band. They may put on a good show, but only because the originals did the real work 30 years earlier.
Hey what’s up, I thought about what you said over the past couple days and I agreed with you, but more information has come out. Playmates doesn’t actually own any of the likeness rights. Nickelodeon owns it all. I’m not surprised because I would have thought that Eastman and Laird would have had strong contracts back in the 80s. Chris Fawcett posted online that he knows the VP at playmates and they said they do not own the likenesses. However what I’ve heard from other people is Playmates used the production of new movie toys as leverage to make Nickelodeon tell Super7 to stop what they’re doing. If Nickelodeon didn’t tell super7 to stop then they wouldn’t make movie toys.
I was just thinking, Super7 also does the ReAction figures in the old Playmates style. They do have a Heavy Metal Raph, Chrome Dome and Napolean Bonafrog coming up. Hopefully, that means Super7 can do those as Ultimates. Those are 2 characters I really want, and Raph is fine if they're gonna finish the music Turtles.
That’s a good point. I really hope those figures and more were given the ok before this mandate went into effect. Heavy Metal Raph was a favorite of mine and I really hope he’s included. Him and Punker Don were the best!
Even if the thing about Playmates and Super7 is true (which unfortunately it is) they could have came up with their own creative design for the racking's head rather than doing what they did. I mean they've done it before
These recolors are just a symptom of budget cuts. Rather than investing into new sculpts/molds, they can just use the molds they have. I think the Mirage recolors is just a way to rationalize to the consumer to do this. As for Rat King, if there is a legal reason from Playmates/Viacom to not copy the Varner aesthetic they hired out and thus own, I think the decision to no longer go with Four Horsemen tracks and why Rat King really stands out as inconsistent with the line so far. Basically this all feels like pointed, purposeful art direction in order to make up being unable to use the vintage Playmates designs in tandem with good old fashioned money saving tactics. RIP TMNT Ultimates. You had a good run.
I get and collect certain things from this line. Mainly enemies. Cause they are bigger scale. To fit in with my 1/12 scale turtles. It's really awesome. Just too much for lack of articulation.
To tell you the truth I wasn’t buying them because they represented the original toys so this change doesn’t bother me much. I just like the details and the amount of different accessories they came with.
Sadly, this turn has set me way back on TMNT collecting. I spent so much on the waves to take chances now as I have other things I'd like to collect and cannot wait to see wave 11 to see where this is going. I sold off my Super 7 TMNT and am now just waiting to see where they land. I might jump back in, but I also may just maybe stop my TMNT collecting as there just aren't any TMNT figures outside of these that I wanted. I don't care for NECA figures, so I am putting more money into my Transformer collecting. Hopefully this turns around and I may jump back in at some point. I really wish Playmates would just do a Origins style collection like the MOTU one, that would solve all the issues.
Yeah, my excitement has sort of died down a bit lately. Partially due to wave 10, partially because I’ve just been really busy doing other work to think about collecting, and also because the amount of money to keep collecting all these likes has become astronomical. I love the Neca toys so I plan on riding out that ship for as long as I can. I did love the super7 figures too, but I may just start to cherry pick everything. I don’t plan on selling the old ones because I like them too much, but I honestly haven’t even preorder the figures I like from this wave yet. I’ll get Leo for sure, but April and Karai I’m in the middle and Casey is a pass. There’s too much to collect at the moment to get every variant just because. I really hope wave 11 blows my socks off. I think the rat king redesign will be make it or break it for people. I was always rooting for super7, but I also have to say I recently got Silverhawks wave 2 and I was a bit disappointed with them. I would have hoped that after all these years they’d finally figure out how to create tighter joints. Monster was very loose and also you have joints on steel will like the peck swivel that don’t work at all. Anyway, thanks for writing! Hopefully I’ll have something new up soon. I’ve been missing releasing videos!
@@razrentals8897 Oh I have the Silverhawks on the way but didn’t know about Mon*Star, if that is the case I may not even open those and they’ll just go right back. After collecting Third Party toys from China and have almost zero issues, I just have no more slack to give Super 7, which stinks as I love some of those lines.
What if this all just recently happened and they had to redo rat king last minute? What id this whole wave is just patched together to fill in for designs that got flagged?
It might be patched together, but I think they knew this was coming for a long time. Brian said that stuff about Guerilla Gorilla last year sometime. They probably had a ton of time to make a Rat King that at least matched the early waves even if he wasn’t 100% playmates.
You should really reach Brian Flynn or at least he should see your video, this issue has to be clarified, but I hope it's just a bump and the next figures still will be more Playmates reinterpretations.
What if the Playmates rumor is all a smoke screen to cover up the fact that Flynn simply didn't want to pay the Four Horsemen anymore? You brought up the great point that if they can't use the PMs designs then they should have wow-ed us. The Horsemen would have knocked a unique design out of the park.
Yeah, totally agree! I know it can be hard to deal with a difficult licensor, so I don't blame Super7 for that. And I don't mind original takes on the characters--I think it could be really cool to see a new design for some of the crazy mutants, like Ground Chuck or Hot Head, but I would prefer designs that capture the same spirit as Playmates, with lots of crazy details and wild, expressive faces. It kinda feels like when Futurama came back, but on Comedy Central--it was still technically the same show, but it felt different. Going forward, the new waves might feel like a spin-off of the original line rather than a continuation. I'm still in for now, though! I think they can still pull off something cool.
Agreed! Groundchuck may be ok since his design was so close in the cartoon, but they need to make the face have an expression that matches or add in some extra gritty details.
With so many Ninja Turtles figure lines out there, I honestly didn't too much about the Super7 Rat King figure when I first saw it. My thoughts were basically, "Oh, hey. There's a Rat King figure coming out. That's cool." until it hit me that it was Super7 and should've looked like a more detailed version of the old Playmates design. That's when I took a second look and was a bit bummed. I bet you're right about the rumours being true, and they just aren't able to use anything resembling the Playmates figures moving forward and it's really sad. They were taking already cool, wacky designs and really cranking them up to 11 and I can see how they'll lose a few fans along the way, because you're right, the design they used for Rat King doesn't even look like it's from the same line. Awesome video and you speak for all of us, 'cause we all feel pretty much the same. ^_^
Thank you Fu! I only wish Super7 could have pumped out figures faster so we could have had more of their awesome redos. It’s a bummer we’ll never see Groundchuck, Dirtbag, Traag, etc in their playmates style ultimates designs.
Oh man, I know. I'm so thankful for the ones we got, but (if this all stays the same, moving forward) all the ones they never made will break our hearts. When the line was first announced, I didn't think I needed toy accurate Turtles, since I had a lot of the Neca cartoon figures, already. (especially at $50, each. That didn't help.) It wasn't until I saw reviews like yours, that I was blown away by the Super7 figures. I couldn't believe how spot-on they were in all the little details, but also so much MORE detailed. And, the absolute tipping point was the sheer size of Bebop! I knew I had to have them, and I've been happy with them, ever since. (Well, unless we count the April I had that snapped in half at the waist. That was the only figure I've had any problems with. She was quickly replaced with her Twin Sister. ;) With any luck, hopefully all of this can be fixed in some way and Super7 can return to making Playmates homages, again. Maybe they can just give Playmates credit on the packaging or something. I doubt it's that simple, but dang it, can you imagine how cool a Super7 Wyrm would've looked? ;)
You really nailed it with this video Gary! Regardless of Playmates' actions, Super7 and only Super7 deemed the final product design acceptable. Losing Four Horsemen is going to be a big problem for them! Like you said, Super7 could have really stepped up their game. Heck not only does the Rat King not match the other figures in the line, they only gave him three rats lol. We all know that there is going to be no way in hell that that flute is getting anywhere close to his mouth. Now to head back over and finish your Neutrinos review!
Damn. This was quick! I just started collecting these figures (as well as the NECA versions) and these wave 10 figures are a complete disappointment. The only exception is Rock n’ Roll Leo.
Nice turtle talk. It had to be done. That Rat King looked bad. I never bought any Super7... but I was really close at one point to getting Leo when he was on sale. But I knew what would happen if I bought just that one... then another, and another etc. But they, Super7 Ultimates, usually do look cool. And if they ever made the toy style of Sgt. Bananas or Wyrm, I would have absolutely bought those.
I’m dying for a Wyrm Ultimate! Your reasoning for not buying any Ultimates is the same reason why I won’t pick up a few MOTU master verse figures. Trap jaw, two bad, and a few others look amazing, but I don’t want to be tempted to buy more.
That's 🧢🧢🧢. Even if that's true they still did a terrible job. He looks horrible. Nobody looks at that Rat King and thinks about Shredder's Revenge 🕹🐢🐢🐢🐢🐗🦏🧠🧀🐀
Honestly I’ve been off of the Super 7 toys for a while. Tired of the variants, they’d rather waste their time tempting people to double, triple dip on a figure just bc it’s GITD, has a new head sculpt, or new accessories. When they could be doing some amazing things with the line instead. I’ve got the 4 OG turtles and 4 OG villains, that’s enough for me.
I was definitely disappointed but I'd wait here for a different reasons than most TMNT fans. I don't really consider myself a Turtles fan, but I do collect rat themed characters, the classic playmate Rat King is one of my favorites. But this was just another in the long line of ways modern toy companies fail the ratperson fan community, first McFarlane excluding rat catcher from the The Suicide Squad wave now this. I was hoping that super 7 would eventually release a really grimy, trasg punk aesthetic, rodent obsessive weirdo like was released in the '80s. But instead we have a very sanitized version. I don't mind the change in character style as much as I do miss the hyper specific and gross detail. It also feels like the figure on a tone without having a rat sculpted on his shoulder could be mistaken for any number of characters, and honestly it makes me feel like I'm going to be shunned by others in he rat-man fandom.
I think the S7 Rat King looks very fun and cool I am very disappointed it's not the Playmates figure. The original Playmates action figure is one of my favorites and the entire point of this line (thus far) has been recreating those figures. All S7 has to say is we are not legally allowed to make Playmates versions and we're good. Manage expectations. I'm still buying the figure because it looks neat, but I am disappointed. The rest of the wave is also cool looking.
Playmates got mad, think about it. They are re-releasing the same shit. And they don't want better versions of their re-releases out there showing them up. They need to evolve with their customers who kept the brand alive this whole time. Add articulation to the old designs
I wonder if it's a matter of Playmates not wanting better versions of things they're planning on rereleasing/updating in the near future out there. Maybe they're planning on rereleasing an upscaled Rat King and that may be why S7 can continue to release variants that are close to the source material.
This new wave reveal was not all bad it was just completely underwhelming, when you compare it to the last wave reveal. And it would not be so bad if they added more accessories to him. And I always cherry pick my figures I don’t collect everyone that comes out. Mostly because of lack of interest in the other figures and money. Also there was a sneak reveal on the red ninja, which I think is Karai, but was taken off. Maybe she is going to be on the next wave, but either way, she does look badass, which I plan on getting.
Yes, Brian Flynn recently said they couldn’t replicate the old toys and it’s been said that Playmates doesn’t actually own the likenesses, but they did complain to Nickelodeon and Nick told Super7 to stop what they were doing.
This Wave looks disappointing for sure. Another Casey Jones in different colours is pointless. I still want Rat King, but I will maybe have to pick up a custom head by Ramen Toys.. l want a General Traag
Look, these were supposed to be playmates ultimates. Other than Leo, everything else misses the mark. Are they horrible figures? no, but that's not the point. We were getting into this line for one reason, they were supposed to be designs from old playmates figures, but now they're not. I don't understand how people are pushing against others that are against this line. I wonder if Neca has been approached by playmates aswell. They are making a new Don and Usagi, wonder if this has anything to do with playmates... I guess only time will tell.
I don’t think they’re expanding because of Playmates. They may just be reaching a point where mostly obscure characters are left. Sure some characters like Tempestra, Merman, and a few others still haven’t been made, but there’s also just a lot of one off scientists. I’m really hoping for Cobrato from Snakes alive myself. You know what never mind, there’s still a lot they can do haha, I just think they’re expanding, but I think they’re doing it in a way that makes sense because the figures still fit in perfectly in style.
Playmates will NEVER make good figures. Ever. Playmates had decades.. decades to just do what they originally did .. and they are so lazy or dumb that they couldn’t even do that. I hate playmates..
It’s insane to see grown adults complain this much about a toy design company take some creative license. The best sculpts have been put out and sculpts like OG Rat King are not great. Thank god super7 is fixing them.
The Playmates rumor is a lie made up by some upset manbaby that is mad at Super7 isn’t making carbon copies of the OG figures. Super7 has a deal for all TMNT related characters and their looks, and if they didn’t, we never would’ve gotten Scratch, a 100% Playmates created character. No one ever promised these figures would be exact replicas, they just mostly looked that way at the start cuz the main figures needed little improvement, but Rat King did, and so will more down the line. It’s just Super7 wanting to flex their creative muscles and manbabies that don’t respect that are the actual problem.
@DaveySockrocker 😆 What??? Oh ok. The only "problem" is for Super7 not getting my $55. Sorry that I expect monster and mutant designs from a property called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"; your right I need to reevaluate my life 😆
I got slammed with a bunch of art requests lately so I’ve been having to meet those deadlines. I’ve still been doing a few things when I can which will hopefully be finished soon including reviews of Zog, Shredder Clones, The Dark Turtle, Bebop and Rocksteady’s Gang, and the premutation 4 pack. I’ve got bits and pieces for all of them so I’ll be trying to wrap them up. Sorry for taking so long, I appreciate you asking!
The dead cat belt was the best part of the original Rat King figure. Maybe they balked at making a high-resolution dead cat belt. And then sanitized the look even more. And then somebody swapped the head out with a K-Pop render.
I was wondering this too. If they had to cut it back in fear of being offensive. If that was ever the case then I just don’t see the point in the line at all. Jump back into the style of the vintage line 100%.
I’m not sure why that would be considered offensive considering Bebop has dead turtles on him as decoration
It's weird because aren't these marketed specifically as adult collectibles? We all had the Playmates Rat King when we were like 5 years old too... any potential trauma has already been inflicted. 😆
The freaks and weirdos are what made this line. It kills me that Super7 may never give us a Pizzaface, Doctor El or Napoleon Bonafrog!
So you're mostly spot on and I started investigating this when you mentioned it in a prior video.
Re: Guerilla Gorilla/Sgt. Bananas. That wasn't a surprise move by Playmates. Flynn and Super7 actually do consult with lawyers before getting into these kinds of licenses. If you go back, Flynn ALWAYS said there were vintage figures they couldn't remake. Obviously there's stuff like Star Trek and Universal Monsters and things like Usagi and Panda Khan that are not owned by Nickelodeon. But Flynn gave "Forgotten Sewer" as an example of something they couldn't do. From the digging I was able to do, most TMNT were designed by Mirage Studios. Those designs are in Nickelodeon's archives. A licensee should theoretically be able to do them. In cases like Sgt. Bananas and Forgotten Sewer and the military Turtles, Steve Varner and others working for Playmates designed them. Playmates always owned those. Super7 knew before Wave 1 that they couldn't do those.
The more recent interference by Playmates is about designs Nickelodeon owns. Playmates doesn't want Nickelodeon to use them or let licensees used them. I've confirmed that much with a confidential source at one of these companies. And from what I can tell, Playmates used its leverage regarding how much in sales they can do for Nickelodeon as a result of Seth Rogen's movie to pressure Nickelodeon. From what I can tell, they used the profits from Michael Bay movie toys to pressure Nickelodeon into scrapping the NECA Mirage line. I don't know specifics but I think it could be something to the effect of, "If you don't make your other licensees stop, we won't make movie toys for you and we'll sit on the license and you'll have a movie with no toy royalties." It's hard for me to grasp why Nickelodeon would play balk with that. Among other things, it may be illegal as a demand and Super7 could probably sue Playmates for tortious interference for doing that, as long as they're not worried they'll lose their license altogether for doing that. But Playmates is based in China so taking them to court may be tricky. I don't know.
As for Rat King, a designer at Super7 said he's based on the Shredder's Revenge video game from last year. Look it up and you'll see at least some similarity.
Final thoughts:
NECA is apparently getting out of video game figures altogether, which may open a lane for Super7. Personally, I think if they're doing that, they should put TMNT Ultimates on hiatus and launch a TMNT Video Game Ultimates with a new wave 1. I think it would manage expectations better.
Apparently from what I've read, Super7 can do toy designs but only when the toy designs have appeared in non-toy media or merch. They have to research a source to justify it with Nickelodeon, who can then justify it to Playmates.
As for Classic Rocker Leo: I believe he's already a case of this happening. He has new accessories. He has a new belt buckle. And the four music Turtles appeared in a few places outside the Playmates line, including a 1994 Valentines Day card.
Truthfully, I don’t see any similarity between that figure and the Shredder’s Revenge design outside of somewhat similar hair. The scarf being yellow in the game, and being green in the figure is a glaring example of Super7 just back pedaling.
I would love a Tournament Fighters line of figures or some love to the 2003 series.
Thanks for writing that all out! It’s crazy that Nickelodeon would allow Playmates to push them around like that. As much as I loved Playmates as a kid, sometimes I wish they didn’t have the master license anymore. Partially because of these demands and also because I think they’re toys have had a sharp decline since the 2012 series. Chris Fawcett today said that the VP of Playmates told him that they do not own any of the original designs, but also did not deny that Playmates put the complaint in.
End of an era. Super7 was killing it recreating the original sculpts and updating the paint and joints. Sad
Love your channel, dedication, research and time put into the history of Tmnt. Keep up the great work! Cheers from colorado
Thanks! I really hope they can turn it around. Wave 11 will let us know for sure.
Gota agree with the comment above. It was a great line and thanks to ur channel made collecting these fun.
Making*
Raz I really appreciate the content you post as it's super detailed and added personal stories. Comparisons are definitely good too. Keep up the awesome videos. Do it for the passion not for the views. They will come.
Thank you!
The Playmates rumor makes a ton of sense, and I really hope they back off and let Super7 shine like they have with some of the previous waves…
As for the Rat King: I was also considering cherry picking the wave for the first time, but I justified getting him by making a head canon that Super7’s version of Rat King was him first deciding to be a crazy rat guy that lives in the sewer and playmates sculpt is him later in life….I’m so glad you mentioned making a sculpt even crazier than Playmates because that was my first thought when I saw the pics, and I really hope that’s what they do in the future!!
Also….WHATS UP WITH KARAI??? This whole thing was confusing, but I still have hope the line can course correct!
Also also….great video! Loved hearing your opinions, and appreciate how in depth you are! Keep up the amazing (and entertaining) work!!!
Thank you! I like your idea for Rat King a lot actually. That was always the great thing about toys back in the day. Just coming up with reasons why you might have 3 different Batman’s or Leonardo’s haha. Different suits, different dimensions, someone else was in disguise as them, it all worked when you were playing.
My biggest fear is.. this is the tip of the iceberg. Every interview they say they are already working on 3-4 waves in the future. That means we haven’t even begun to see what this means for this line.
That’s true and we’ll probably be waiting awhile so see wave 11. The next wave won’t even hit our doors until at least August.
They should have done important characters like Rat King and General Traag a while ago before they had to change up their designs. The way things are now, what's the point of continuing to collect these? The new designs won't fit with the Ultimates we already have. And if we're just going for cartoon looks, NECA's already got that covered for cheaper.
I agree. I don’t think anyone will ever top Neca at the Fred Wolf game. I didn’t mind getting all of the mutants we got already, but when you think of all the figure variants we got so far it kills you to think how Traag and Rat King should have had those spots.
I suspect the main characters were being drip fed to maintain steady sales but, with hindsight, it's such a shame that in 9 waves, they couldn't have just got to doing the full roster from those first 2 series.
I appreciate Usagi Yojimbo was always in doubt because of licensing but not to have a Traag and Rat King in the same style is so disappointing.
Great Video with some Great Insight!! The Super 7 TMNT Ultimates line has been such a fun line and breathe of fresh air into these nostalgic designs. Unfortunately it seems like Playmates jealousy & meddling has really disrupted that for turtle fans. I think for this line to continue to succeed, S7 needs to pivot & focus on the popular turtle characters that didn’t get releases during the original Playmates line in that art style. Wave 10 does a couple of interesting things in Ninja April & Mirage Casey, but you can’t convince me this is the Ultimate Version of Rat King. Where are his accessories? 3 rats and a flute?? That’s it? While a popular character with fans this one may need a little bit of a rework.
I would love that! Jagwar, Dreadmon, Armaggon, Nobody, Renet, so many characters that would look cool in the old style.
I've been pivoting away from Super7 in general due to expense and QC lately but I still have a few of the TMNT coming up that I gotta have so it's a bummer to see the changes. It definitely looks like whoever made these also made the GI Joe figures, they look like they belong together more than with the older S7 ones. At least this will open up myself to go all in on the Mirage NECA line and not feel as guilty (not like I already wasn't going to...).
If they do change sculpts.. At the very LEAST they need to sculpt tons of detail into the figures to match the aesthetic of the original figures.. aka the whole reason for this line and match the previous waves of figures
The main selling point I can see of that Mirage Casey is the cracked mask head 😅
It is cool. I don’t know if it’s worth $55 though haha.
Is that Scrag in the background? I got him recently on ebay to complete Behop and Rocksteady's gang!🐢😉🙏🙋
So much for my comment on the last wave that "Super7 seems to have found the design sweetspot"...
This is all so strange... You'd think they'd have had an agreement worked out with Playmates from the beginning with how closely the Ultimates adhered to those original designs, but all of a sudden they said no? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Edit- what's the story with Playmates, NECA & the Mirage Turtles? I've been hoping for a reissue of those given all the cool new Mirage figures they've been producing.
I don’t know. You’d think they would have remade them since they’ve been putting out so many mirage figures lately. I bet a lot of people would buy them in a heartbeat.
Kind of seems like the rumors are true. I think a lot of us our are out if this ends up being the case.
For what it’s worth, I don’t believe Brian Flynn when he says “hello”.
Playmates should be taking your idea of making new characters in their vintage toy line style & running with it, like their Last Ronin figure.
I was passing on stuff from the NECA toons line assuming we'd eventually get to it here. But I think I'll have to switch over. The toon line has good character depth and consistency, and that makes or breaks a line. Ultimates are still very rad, and I have stuff pre-ordered through wave 9, but I'm looking at NECA to be my main display line at this point,m so playing a little bit of catch-up.
Love when you say, Gary from Raaaaaaaaaaaaaz Rentals! Always great vids. Longform is the best!
Also, Ratking looks like he’s in a boy band
11:09 The word you were searching for is "gnarly." 😁
I knew somebody would help me out!
He’s meant to be designed after the shredders revenge rat king. The sculptor himself said it.
Im with you 100% on this!
I think it would be appropriate if super7 came out and give there fans a straight up answer as to what's going on. I think it would be the respectful thing to do specially to us who have been loyal fans since the beginning.
If Playmates is the reason they likely cannot say. Legally this might be an issue for them to comment on it.
At the end of the day if Super7 cant stand on their own... That's their fault.
I agree. I hope they get creative and try to at least emulate the earlier figures.
Yo, Gary, I agree with most of what you say here, with the one exception that playmates is somehow in the wrong here. You’re in a creative job as well, from what I gather? Imagine you had designed all those figures in the 80s and 90s. Wouldn’t it seem weird that Super7 can just take all your old designs, make them bigger, add some details, and just rerelease them without paying you a dime? If it’s true that Super7 never gave a cut to Playmates, that’s kinda what happened to Playmates/Varner these last few years. Wouldn’t that seem unfair?
To me, the original Playmates Turtles figures are the greatest line of action figures of all time. Pretty much every figure is iconic and holds up 30 years later. Let’s say they’re the Beatles of action figures. Super7’s ultimates line is like a Beatles cover band. They may put on a good show, but only because the originals did the real work 30 years earlier.
Hey what’s up, I thought about what you said over the past couple days and I agreed with you, but more information has come out. Playmates doesn’t actually own any of the likeness rights. Nickelodeon owns it all. I’m not surprised because I would have thought that Eastman and Laird would have had strong contracts back in the 80s. Chris Fawcett posted online that he knows the VP at playmates and they said they do not own the likenesses. However what I’ve heard from other people is Playmates used the production of new movie toys as leverage to make Nickelodeon tell Super7 to stop what they’re doing. If Nickelodeon didn’t tell super7 to stop then they wouldn’t make movie toys.
I was just thinking, Super7 also does the ReAction figures in the old Playmates style. They do have a Heavy Metal Raph, Chrome Dome and Napolean Bonafrog coming up. Hopefully, that means Super7 can do those as Ultimates. Those are 2 characters I really want, and Raph is fine if they're gonna finish the music Turtles.
That’s a good point. I really hope those figures and more were given the ok before this mandate went into effect. Heavy Metal Raph was a favorite of mine and I really hope he’s included. Him and Punker Don were the best!
Agree. Rat King and Usagi Yojimbo will forever be gigantic holes in this Ultimates line
Even if the thing about Playmates and Super7 is true (which unfortunately it is) they could have came up with their own creative design for the racking's head rather than doing what they did. I mean they've done it before
I agree.
These recolors are just a symptom of budget cuts. Rather than investing into new sculpts/molds, they can just use the molds they have. I think the Mirage recolors is just a way to rationalize to the consumer to do this. As for Rat King, if there is a legal reason from Playmates/Viacom to not copy the Varner aesthetic they hired out and thus own, I think the decision to no longer go with Four Horsemen tracks and why Rat King really stands out as inconsistent with the line so far. Basically this all feels like pointed, purposeful art direction in order to make up being unable to use the vintage Playmates designs in tandem with good old fashioned money saving tactics.
RIP TMNT Ultimates. You had a good run.
I get and collect certain things from this line. Mainly enemies. Cause they are bigger scale. To fit in with my 1/12 scale turtles. It's really awesome. Just too much for lack of articulation.
To tell you the truth I wasn’t buying them because they represented the original toys so this change doesn’t bother me much. I just like the details and the amount of different accessories they came with.
Makes me sad that Super7 is basically getting screwed over, I hope that they can still find success with characters outside of that original toyline.
I was saying this morning that I was surprised Rat King still hasn't been made yet and then he gets announced today 😂👍💯
Haha, perfect timing.
Sadly, this turn has set me way back on TMNT collecting. I spent so much on the waves to take chances now as I have other things I'd like to collect and cannot wait to see wave 11 to see where this is going. I sold off my Super 7 TMNT and am now just waiting to see where they land. I might jump back in, but I also may just maybe stop my TMNT collecting as there just aren't any TMNT figures outside of these that I wanted. I don't care for NECA figures, so I am putting more money into my Transformer collecting. Hopefully this turns around and I may jump back in at some point. I really wish Playmates would just do a Origins style collection like the MOTU one, that would solve all the issues.
Yeah, my excitement has sort of died down a bit lately. Partially due to wave 10, partially because I’ve just been really busy doing other work to think about collecting, and also because the amount of money to keep collecting all these likes has become astronomical. I love the Neca toys so I plan on riding out that ship for as long as I can. I did love the super7 figures too, but I may just start to cherry pick everything. I don’t plan on selling the old ones because I like them too much, but I honestly haven’t even preorder the figures I like from this wave yet. I’ll get Leo for sure, but April and Karai I’m in the middle and Casey is a pass. There’s too much to collect at the moment to get every variant just because. I really hope wave 11 blows my socks off. I think the rat king redesign will be make it or break it for people. I was always rooting for super7, but I also have to say I recently got Silverhawks wave 2 and I was a bit disappointed with them. I would have hoped that after all these years they’d finally figure out how to create tighter joints. Monster was very loose and also you have joints on steel will like the peck swivel that don’t work at all. Anyway, thanks for writing! Hopefully I’ll have something new up soon. I’ve been missing releasing videos!
@@razrentals8897 Oh I have the Silverhawks on the way but didn’t know about Mon*Star, if that is the case I may not even open those and they’ll just go right back. After collecting Third Party toys from China and have almost zero issues, I just have no more slack to give Super 7, which stinks as I love some of those lines.
What if this all just recently happened and they had to redo rat king last minute? What id this whole wave is just patched together to fill in for designs that got flagged?
It might be patched together, but I think they knew this was coming for a long time. Brian said that stuff about Guerilla Gorilla last year sometime. They probably had a ton of time to make a Rat King that at least matched the early waves even if he wasn’t 100% playmates.
You should really reach Brian Flynn or at least he should see your video, this issue has to be clarified, but I hope it's just a bump and the next figures still will be more Playmates reinterpretations.
What if the Playmates rumor is all a smoke screen to cover up the fact that Flynn simply didn't want to pay the Four Horsemen anymore? You brought up the great point that if they can't use the PMs designs then they should have wow-ed us. The Horsemen would have knocked a unique design out of the park.
Yeah, totally agree! I know it can be hard to deal with a difficult licensor, so I don't blame Super7 for that. And I don't mind original takes on the characters--I think it could be really cool to see a new design for some of the crazy mutants, like Ground Chuck or Hot Head, but I would prefer designs that capture the same spirit as Playmates, with lots of crazy details and wild, expressive faces. It kinda feels like when Futurama came back, but on Comedy Central--it was still technically the same show, but it felt different. Going forward, the new waves might feel like a spin-off of the original line rather than a continuation. I'm still in for now, though! I think they can still pull off something cool.
Agreed! Groundchuck may be ok since his design was so close in the cartoon, but they need to make the face have an expression that matches or add in some extra gritty details.
With so many Ninja Turtles figure lines out there, I honestly didn't too much about the Super7 Rat King figure when I first saw it. My thoughts were basically, "Oh, hey. There's a Rat King figure coming out. That's cool." until it hit me that it was Super7 and should've looked like a more detailed version of the old Playmates design. That's when I took a second look and was a bit bummed. I bet you're right about the rumours being true, and they just aren't able to use anything resembling the Playmates figures moving forward and it's really sad. They were taking already cool, wacky designs and really cranking them up to 11 and I can see how they'll lose a few fans along the way, because you're right, the design they used for Rat King doesn't even look like it's from the same line.
Awesome video and you speak for all of us, 'cause we all feel pretty much the same. ^_^
Thank you Fu! I only wish Super7 could have pumped out figures faster so we could have had more of their awesome redos. It’s a bummer we’ll never see Groundchuck, Dirtbag, Traag, etc in their playmates style ultimates designs.
Oh man, I know. I'm so thankful for the ones we got, but (if this all stays the same, moving forward) all the ones they never made will break our hearts. When the line was first announced, I didn't think I needed toy accurate Turtles, since I had a lot of the Neca cartoon figures, already. (especially at $50, each. That didn't help.) It wasn't until I saw reviews like yours, that I was blown away by the Super7 figures. I couldn't believe how spot-on they were in all the little details, but also so much MORE detailed. And, the absolute tipping point was the sheer size of Bebop! I knew I had to have them, and I've been happy with them, ever since. (Well, unless we count the April I had that snapped in half at the waist. That was the only figure I've had any problems with. She was quickly replaced with her Twin Sister. ;)
With any luck, hopefully all of this can be fixed in some way and Super7 can return to making Playmates homages, again. Maybe they can just give Playmates credit on the packaging or something. I doubt it's that simple, but dang it, can you imagine how cool a Super7 Wyrm would've looked? ;)
You really nailed it with this video Gary! Regardless of Playmates' actions, Super7 and only Super7 deemed the final product design acceptable. Losing Four Horsemen is going to be a big problem for them! Like you said, Super7 could have really stepped up their game. Heck not only does the Rat King not match the other figures in the line, they only gave him three rats lol. We all know that there is going to be no way in hell that that flute is getting anywhere close to his mouth. Now to head back over and finish your Neutrinos review!
He'll come with 3 rats and 12 hands lol
Hahaha so true! God forbid we don't get those extra hands! 😄
Haha, yeah the render makes it look like the flute is close, but I wouldn’t believe it until I actually saw a physical version holding the flute.
Damn. This was quick!
I just started collecting these figures (as well as the NECA versions) and these wave 10 figures are a complete disappointment. The only exception is Rock n’ Roll Leo.
You know who buys these Playmates figures these days? Relatives of people who like TMNT, well meaning aunts, grandmothers, siblings, etc.
Nice turtle talk. It had to be done. That Rat King looked bad. I never bought any Super7... but I was really close at one point to getting Leo when he was on sale. But I knew what would happen if I bought just that one... then another, and another etc.
But they, Super7 Ultimates, usually do look cool. And if they ever made the toy style of Sgt. Bananas or Wyrm, I would have absolutely bought those.
I’m dying for a Wyrm Ultimate! Your reasoning for not buying any Ultimates is the same reason why I won’t pick up a few MOTU master verse figures. Trap jaw, two bad, and a few others look amazing, but I don’t want to be tempted to buy more.
Beginning of the end for super 7 for me . 😅
Super7 said that this rat king is from the new video game rat king version
That's 🧢🧢🧢. Even if that's true they still did a terrible job. He looks horrible. Nobody looks at that Rat King and thinks about Shredder's Revenge 🕹🐢🐢🐢🐢🐗🦏🧠🧀🐀
Honestly I’ve been off of the Super 7 toys for a while. Tired of the variants, they’d rather waste their time tempting people to double, triple dip on a figure just bc it’s GITD, has a new head sculpt, or new accessories. When they could be doing some amazing things with the line instead. I’ve got the 4 OG turtles and 4 OG villains, that’s enough for me.
I was definitely disappointed but I'd wait here for a different reasons than most TMNT fans. I don't really consider myself a Turtles fan, but I do collect rat themed characters, the classic playmate Rat King is one of my favorites. But this was just another in the long line of ways modern toy companies fail the ratperson fan community, first McFarlane excluding rat catcher from the The Suicide Squad wave now this.
I was hoping that super 7 would eventually release a really grimy, trasg punk aesthetic, rodent obsessive weirdo like was released in the '80s. But instead we have a very sanitized version.
I don't mind the change in character style as much as I do miss the hyper specific and gross detail. It also feels like the figure on a tone without having a rat sculpted on his shoulder could be mistaken for any number of characters, and honestly it makes me feel like I'm going to be shunned by others in he rat-man fandom.
I think the S7 Rat King looks very fun and cool I am very disappointed it's not the Playmates figure.
The original Playmates action figure is one of my favorites and the entire point of this line (thus far) has been recreating those figures.
All S7 has to say is we are not legally allowed to make Playmates versions and we're good.
Manage expectations.
I'm still buying the figure because it looks neat, but I am disappointed.
The rest of the wave is also cool looking.
Playmates got mad, think about it. They are re-releasing the same shit. And they don't want better versions of their re-releases out there showing them up. They need to evolve with their customers who kept the brand alive this whole time. Add articulation to the old designs
I wonder if it's a matter of Playmates not wanting better versions of things they're planning on rereleasing/updating in the near future out there. Maybe they're planning on rereleasing an upscaled Rat King and that may be why S7 can continue to release variants that are close to the source material.
This new wave reveal was not all bad it was just completely underwhelming, when you compare it to the last wave reveal. And it would not be so bad if they added more accessories to him. And I always cherry pick my figures I don’t collect everyone that comes out. Mostly because of lack of interest in the other figures and money.
Also there was a sneak reveal on the red ninja, which I think is Karai, but was taken off. Maybe she is going to be on the next wave, but either way, she does look badass, which I plan on getting.
They should have kept Karai in the wave!
Is there actual evidence to support this theory?
Yes, Brian Flynn recently said they couldn’t replicate the old toys and it’s been said that Playmates doesn’t actually own the likenesses, but they did complain to Nickelodeon and Nick told Super7 to stop what they were doing.
I didn't see any of the teasers either lol
This Wave looks disappointing for sure. Another Casey Jones in different colours is pointless.
I still want Rat King, but I will maybe have to pick up a custom head by Ramen Toys.. l want a General Traag
Look, these were supposed to be playmates ultimates. Other than Leo, everything else misses the mark. Are they horrible figures? no, but that's not the point. We were getting into this line for one reason, they were supposed to be designs from old playmates figures, but now they're not. I don't understand how people are pushing against others that are against this line.
I wonder if Neca has been approached by playmates aswell. They are making a new Don and Usagi, wonder if this has anything to do with playmates... I guess only time will tell.
I don’t think they’re expanding because of Playmates. They may just be reaching a point where mostly obscure characters are left. Sure some characters like Tempestra, Merman, and a few others still haven’t been made, but there’s also just a lot of one off scientists. I’m really hoping for Cobrato from Snakes alive myself. You know what never mind, there’s still a lot they can do haha, I just think they’re expanding, but I think they’re doing it in a way that makes sense because the figures still fit in perfectly in style.
if they follow this aesthetic the line is dead for me
Rat king sucks...not getting it
Playmates will NEVER make good figures. Ever. Playmates had decades.. decades to just do what they originally did .. and they are so lazy or dumb that they couldn’t even do that. I hate playmates..
It’s insane to see grown adults complain this much about a toy design company take some creative license. The best sculpts have been put out and sculpts like OG Rat King are not great. Thank god super7 is fixing them.
is an action figure channel. Do you want to talk about the fall of the roman empire?
Lol ok wannabe. I'm gonna "man baby" by not supporting crap with my hard earned money.
@@front2423 tons of Toy channels talk toys without talking lame conspiracy theories and whine 🤨
The Playmates rumor is a lie made up by some upset manbaby that is mad at Super7 isn’t making carbon copies of the OG figures. Super7 has a deal for all TMNT related characters and their looks, and if they didn’t, we never would’ve gotten Scratch, a 100% Playmates created character. No one ever promised these figures would be exact replicas, they just mostly looked that way at the start cuz the main figures needed little improvement, but Rat King did, and so will more down the line. It’s just Super7 wanting to flex their creative muscles and manbabies that don’t respect that are the actual problem.
Sure, they added some very "creative improvements"! cough cough TROLL
@@joeesoko if you actually think the OG head sculpt is good then you’re the problem
@DaveySockrocker 😆 What??? Oh ok. The only "problem" is for Super7 not getting my $55. Sorry that I expect monster and mutant designs from a property called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"; your right I need to reevaluate my life 😆
Where you been?
I got slammed with a bunch of art requests lately so I’ve been having to meet those deadlines. I’ve still been doing a few things when I can which will hopefully be finished soon including reviews of Zog, Shredder Clones, The Dark Turtle, Bebop and Rocksteady’s Gang, and the premutation 4 pack. I’ve got bits and pieces for all of them so I’ll be trying to wrap them up. Sorry for taking so long, I appreciate you asking!