@UCNFkjkT000gkDy9h3JLbDZw DT know that he need to make the shorts in Vertical for them to get real views, but he think that you are crazy if you watch a video in Vertical mode and doing in horizontal to kick the man ... so the shorts is he make is just a joke
@@TheRybka30 sitting will atrophy your back no matter the posture. maybe you can squeeze more life out of your back with a good chair but it will go bad if you are weak.
The secret to avoiding RSI is to reduce repetitive motions that cause tendons and muscles to be under continuous stress. Which means there is no magic bullet device that completely solves the problem. You need to switch on a regular basis between multiple different input devices. Since a big roller ball like the Kensington Expert requires a lot of finger movement it can actually make carpal tunnel inflammation worse. The tendons that move the fingers all go through a tight space in the wrist area where the carpal tunnel is also located. One of main devices I would recommend is actually a high quality multi-touch trackpad like the Apple Magic Trackpad, that would let you move the cursor around mostly by moving the entire hand from the shoulder, together with the forearm. But taking frequent breaks, keeping the muscles relaxed and noticing when anything feels under stress or irritated, and changing devices to change the stress patterns is what will really keep RSI at bay for life.
80 bucks though? Why are trackballs so expensive ? I can get a cheap mouse that works perfectly ok but I only found one cheapish handheld trackball and its a bit short on buttons...
@@fiddledotgoth I use the logitech trackman, its about 20 USD and it has its own article on the arch wiki. As far as being short on buttons, imo as long as i have left and right click and can get a middle click/scroll functionallity working, thats enough. The mouse should serve mouse-related functions and nothing more. If i have some special functionality I need I can handle it with a keybind
One of us One of us One of us Logitech T-RB22 TrackMan for 15 years or so... Lol New ones on Ebay are $200 (US) and up, used $120... Paid $50 bucks for the first one... Have 4 now... Lol LLAP One of us One of us One of us
@@fiddledotgoth I've had my Logitech T-RB22 TrackMan for 15 years or so... Lol New ones on Ebay are $200 (US) and up, used $120... Paid $50 bucks for the first one... Have 4 now... Lol LLAP
@@francescovolpini I've found more terminals that you can click on than ones you can't. Just about setting it up usually. Of course, it depends on what level of interactivity you expect that click to give you.
dude I don't have any rsi or carpal tunnel syndrome but I freaking love ergonomic stuff. been using trackballs and ergonomic keyboards for years. very happy that you show these awesome tings to lots of people
Thanks for this - valuable advice. I first met trackballs when I worked for a software/systems contractor to the UK defence forces in the early 80's. They were in use on flight-control desks, and also on sub's. The balls were bigger than the largest ones I've seen available commercially, and must have cost a lot, but there were obvious operational reasons for using them. They were also built-in to the console desks, so their height was minimal. I got an Expert trackball a long time ago and used it until I mainly used laptops and transitioned to pads. Coming back to desktop, I tried the Expert out again, as I now have some arthritis in my thumb and fingers. I found it uncomfortable, for a couple of reasons - the height of the ball meant my wrist was bent too far back for comfort, and the ball itself was too far back towards me, which meant my fingers were also cranked back. Also, the buttons were too far forward, which meant I had to avoid moving the ball when I clicked them. I really needed to avoid a mouse though, so I did some research, and ended up with the Kensington Orbit with scroll-wheel, instead. The ball is almost unique in being angled forward, and the buttons are towards me from it. The scroll-wheel is quieter than the Expert too. The only downside is the ball is smaller, which means it doesn't have such nice dynamics - those giant military ones were fantastic from that point of view, you could keep fine control of the pointer even when the environment was rockin' and rolling'! Anyway, I'm sure you and anyone else would be making the right choice to go for a trackball for most applications. I have experience of all sorts of graphical interactive devices over five decades, from light-pens to gaze-directed input. When I first started in experimental psych, when we were doing experiments to track people's eye movements, the subjects had to heroically wear hard contact lenses with sticky-out reflective dots.. Oh, and I had the privilege of using one of the very first pen-input devices - it took up most of a small room, you were surrounded by relays and paper-tape punches, and the moment you put your stylus down on the small pad, the whole room erupted with noise, as you can imagine. It's all so simple now (*sigh*).
6:00 the game part is Easy on a Trackball .... i got one of the Logi tech Trackballs that DT show in the start and i can play FPS NP, it is easy to make a 180 turn and get someone that is behind you i use this kind of trackball for 10 years and it help me a lot, please try it will help you too.
Switched to this months ago and I too noticed a huge improvement with my wrist pain. Glad I made the switch before the pain developed into a more serious form of RSI. I agree the scroll wheel can be noisy, but after a while I stopped noticing it.
Got my Expert a few months ago. Whenever I used a regular mouse, clicking would send a little jolt of pain up my arm. Haven't had any problems since switching over.
I've been exclusively using Kensington Expert Trackball's for about thirty years now. I recommend getting a gel pad to support the base of your palm or wrist.
As a software developer, I tend to use the mouse a lot at work, and I suffer from wrist pain since over a decade ago, when I did my PhD and worked about 12, 14 hours a day with a computer. Half a year ago, I purchased a Logitech Ergo (thumb trackball), and immediately felt that it was the right decision. And one thing you mentioned hasn't been praised enough, in my honest opinion. The mouse is always at the same location. You do not have to look, you can stare at your code, and reach out to the mouse without hunting for it subconsciously. For me, who likes to stare my code to death like a cat looking at a laser spot, that is a total game changer.
I started using a Logitech trackman marble wheel in like 1997, when it finally crapped out after more than a decade of use I switched to the Logitech M570 which could be considered the much more cheaply built successor to my old one. I went through a dozen of them before I picked up an Ergo about a year ago and it has been the best version that Logitech has made. Such a great mouse. I've been using this mouse style for so long I can't use a standard mouse. I have even played competitive shooters with it and used it for gaming of every kind.
I also can say that I had an episode with Logitech M570 and I don't know if that's only my problem, but after using only this trackball at work and at home after some time I had a pretty bad thumb pain! Even if I felt in love in that thumb trackball I had to switch back to standard mouse.
@@przemprore I think it depends on very small details in physiology. For one a thumb trackball might be the best choice, for someone else these bigger ones for the whole palm like discussed here, a third and maybe the largest group will be most comfortable with a vertical mouse. The best mouse is that which you are comfortable with the most, I guess.
I switched 2 months ago to an expert wireless (because i love having my desk out of cables). This was a one-way ticket! The only complain: the provided wrist pad is not comfortable for my big hands; but I've solved it with a detached one, and sitting it down my wrist, which lets my fingers fall comfortably over the trackpad.
Almost 1 year after this comment, I can confirm that switching to a trackball is a one way ticket. Also, I've bought a second trackball for the office.
I was gaming on exactly that trackball last night. (I literally bought it so I could game again without the pain mice have been giving me since I received a bad hand injury) Takes a bit of getting used to but once you get the muscle memory you fine. In the Kensington software you can enable acceleration, so the faster you soon the ball the further the cursor moves. Once you get the sweet spot between sensitivity and acceleration you good to go. I'm sure there must be some way to hack those under Linux too
I use regular mouse configured to high sensitivity. One micro-movement to move across both screens. Before that, I had a prominent bulb below the palm on the right hand from constant friction with the table, now it's entirely gone. Btw this keeps the mouse at almost constant predictable position as well.
One thing that I can really recommend when using trackballs is enabling mouse wheel emulation(create file with new libinput inputclass in x configuration files) while holding one of the buttons, this way you can use the ball as an amazing scroll-wheel. For Kensington I use the back button for it as it can still be used for it's original purpose without messing with other keys. Forward key might be better on other trackballs as you are less likely to go back in your browser/file manager by accident.
I got one of these for relaxing on the sofa while still being able to work the laptop and don't regret it despite the lack of mouse wheel www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353412440303?hash=item524905e0ef:g:89MAAOSwmZhgQNPp Your post just nudged me to see if I can reprogram one of the buttons (which presently doesn't do anything; any idea on how to even find out if a button on a mouse device is registering...?
@@fiddledotgoth I have Elecom relacon for a simmilar reason. It's not just for being a couch potato, it's pretty useful for desktop use as it's good when dealing with multimedia playback and just reading/scrolling trough lot of websites and documents with more relaxed posture.
Hey DT, try putting the trackball inbetween your keyboard halves. It feels a lot better and you actually make a lot more use of the split nature of your keyboard with a way healthier sitting position
The only reason I don't want to change to a trackball is because of thumb clusters on my regular style mouse. I have mapped so many shortcuts to it, I feel naked without those thumb buttons. However if I find a vetical style mouse with a thumb cluster, I'd switch instantly.
Trackballs can result in finger fatigue after long usage. From my experience, the best type of mouse (at least ergonomically) is something like a Wacom tablet, where you point the cursor with the stylus.
That actually makes sense because the forearm is not twisted. Just thinking out of the air here, I imagine using vertical mouse could replicate the hand position of using stylus then, yeah?
I swear I was just searching for this exact trackball right before you uploaded. Using the Kensington Orbit right now, but probably going to get an Expert wireless for portable work.
If you’re worried about RSI I strongly recommend a thumb type trackball. I used Kensington for a number of years, but it ultimately gave me RSI in my wrist. I switched to a thumb type and it went away and has been gone for years.
I ended up getting thumb pain from a thumb-style trackball lol. I think the ultimate lesson (especially as you get older) is to take breaks and stretch. Nothing is going to be ergonomically perfect for everyone, especially if you spend 16+ hours a day doing it.
@@Syncratci Same! Got thumb pain very soon after I got my 150 USD trackball mouse from Logitech. :( Had to stop using it. Now, a year later I get thumb pain even if I play with my mobile phone for too long... I'm 35 by the way. I also have pains in my wrists and in the ass from sitting too much (also in the forearms, from the pressure of putting them on the desk, which I used to do until a few years ago - now I can't rest my forearms on chair or car armrests, the pain starts soon) - after 2 decades in front of a stupid computer for many hours practically every day. :( Breaks indeed. Nothing else will do it. The terrible thing is you have no warning signs for many years and then it happens pretty suddenly ... and even if you stop doing it for months ... it comes back pretty soon when you start doing it again. :( edit: I also have pains in the "balls" of the wrist, where you lay your hand on the pad/table when it's on the mouse. So I have to hold my hand in the air due to the too strong pain... :(
@@prometheus9443 Sounds like you need to see a physiotherapist, if you can afford one. I did that partway through my grad degree and it made a massive amount of difference in the amount of pain I was in. Also switched to a trackball :).
I got m575 Logitech ergo,i love ma g604 too with many shortcut buttons but man it takes tolls on ma baby wrist 🥰 .. lookin at getting proper mx ergo now after week trial wig 575 as i want more shortcuts 🤭 hehe xD
I think I'll personally keep using a "classic" mouse for now, but I've always been a big fan of using the mouse at high sensitivity levels (1000+ DPI) to reduce the overall necessary way of travel. Sure, it does require more dexerity, but also saves you from a lot of wrist/arm strain...
I've been playing the wired Expert Mouse for 5+ years now for video editing and gaming. I would love to move from optical sensor to laser but the scrolling ring on the new trackball is different from the old one. I wish Kensington would release a laser trackball with an independent scroll ring. I have pits on my Expert Mouse ball and asked Kensington if a replacement is available so I can extend the life on my trackball.
L-trac makes an awesome trackball with a laser. Ploopy makes a modern version of the Microsoft Explorer trackball which is no doubt the most ergonomic trackball ever created (and their stuff is completely open source too).
A long time ago I had a problem with my right wrist. I went to the doctor, did everything he said, all the tests and everything but nothing came out of all that. Then, I searched online for people who had the same or similar condition and found a vertical mouse from a university in the US that really was the game changer for me. After a short period of using it, the weird pain/annoyance in my wrist was gone. Also, a very important thing I changed was not to use double-click anymore. Instead, I'm using single-click for opening files and everything else. Those 2 things saved my wrist.
The trackpoint isn't as good as it used to be. It's shorter than it was, so it's harder to control it. Plus you'll be stuck with the ThinkPad keyboard (which is good as a laptop keyboard but definitely not as good as a mechanical keyboard).
I bought a pair of that same model over a decade ago now for the same reason. My wrists have thanked me ever since. A few years ago, my home one died after I dropped it. (misaligned the opto pair for the scroll encoder, and was never able to get it to work consistently again) I replaced it with a Slimblade and really like that one too. Speaking personally, I love trackballs for gaming too. I find the right acceleration curve paired with the ball's natural momentum very satisfying. You can just sort of fling the ball and catch it at the right time to stop it, almost exactly like you would scroll on a modern touchscreen.
I can’t believe you’ve overlooked the Slimblade model. It is right below these two on that amazon page! much more thought out, the scroll is done with the same ball and not an additional “ring” - by just rotating the ball clockwise-anticlockwise. And the sounds it produce are very satisfying
I had wrist pain for a while, so to combat this, I just rammed up my DPI, and use my fingers to control the mouse rather than using my wrist, or arm to move. It's helped a lot.
did that in chilhood. but for speed reasons in shooters :D Never had any problems, guess this was accidental strain prevention :D also cant use low sensitivity mouse or trackpads on computers, because not used to being that slow with a cursor :D
the Kensington expert is AMAZING. Its one of the few well made reasonably priced long lasting trackballs that is also ambidextrous, which I need since I'm left handed. I use it both at home and at work, since I'm using a computer 12-15 hours day (work/personal total). I usually use my pointer and middle fingers to operate the ball/scroll wheel, and map the lower right button for my left click to be operated with my thumb and the right click mapped to the upper left button to be operated by my ring finger. The other buttons I have mapped for different functions depending on the specific application (everything from autoCAD to zoom).
That is one bizarre keyboard. The two things that helped me the most to reduce RSI were 1) reducing the use of the mouse in favor of keyboard shortcuts and 2) learning and switching to the Dvorak keyboard layout. Tiling window managers also helped me greatly, with their natural use of the keyboard instead of mouse for their general use.
I'm wondering if the models you show in the video are also better than a combination of a 'normal' mouse and a trackball? I saw quite a few of those when I searched for a trackball after this video
What also helps with a standard mouse is increase the pointer or acceleration speed, so that the pointer moves faster across the screen. less wrist movement. at least I think it helps, it helped me. Especially on a 1920x1080 screen resolution. The mouse pointer usually moves slower on 4K screens, even with the speed/acceleration on max, it is noticable, imo.
For anyone reading this, we must understand that our hands should not lie flat on desks. Our palm must be always in "half shake angle" or vertically placed compared to table surface. Hence, the most ergonomic stance should be a vertical trackball. Not otherwise. I would like to hear others openions too.
I wonder if it would be possible to have thinkpad style trackpoints (the red nub) added to the ZSA style split keyboards? one for each side could be compact and efficient
Hey DT! A quick question: have you ever considered using a apple magic trackpad on linux? Are there drivers available? I live in a dual-world and due to my work I am stuck between Windows and Linux. On Windows there are some pretty good workarounds to get it working in a way that is quite similar to the performance over on a Mac, but I never tried / seen it on Linux. For some type of people it might be even more beneficial than using a trackball mouse like the Kensington models. I personally like to switch between different types of pointing devices: Trackball, Trackpad, Trackpoint (Thinkpad), Mouse. This prevents RSI best, I think, since you simply change the complete way of interaction from time to time.
For typing i use a 'floating' hand motion that i just sort of developed myself subconsciously as i was growing up. I don't anchor my hands or wrists to any point and just let them float freely over the keyboard like when you're playing a piano. I can't touch type as i feel this puts your hands in an unnatural fixed position. Moving your whole arms instead of your fingers makes typing a breeze. I use a computer for several hours each day and have done for the last 25 years, and i've never had a single ounce of pain in any hand, wrist, arm or fingers. I also type 95wpm so not too shabby considering i only use two fingers on my right hand and one finger on my left hand, which i didn't even realise i did until i watched closely as i was typing this comment since i'm usually just looking at the screen. A ball mouse sounds awesome though because i really hate using a trackpad and it's not always convenient to have an infra-red mouse depending on the surface.
Linus Tech Tips did a video on this. After some time, they were almost as fast with a trackball as with a traditional mouse. Personally, I've never tried.
Hey DT, why would you not just map a second layer to your ergodox/moonlanader and use that instead? It's faster and more ergonomic than moving your hand.
Working in IT and doing college online, I use a computer for large amounts of time a day. I started using the Logitech MX Ergo M575, still getting used to it but the transition is far easier than I thought it would be.
Recently got the moonlander. I learned properly touch typing two years ago - before that I still didn't look at the keyboard, but I used my own style and maybe only 6 fingers and one of my thumbs. After learning the "proper" way, I got much faster but my fingers start hurting after a few hours of programming. Normal keyboards are really awkward for programming you're twisting your hands line a maniac to reach all the special symbols and brackets etc. I can't afford getting RSI, so I'm quite excited for my moonlander to arrive.
I'm wondering, because I use my mouse on high sensitivity and only bounce it around a little with my fingers without any bigger movements... I expect trackball do do basically the same job just with higher price.
Using an 'Expert' since 2019, I changed the Buttons setting with a '.conf'' file. The left top button is RMB and the Right down button is LMB, so I can trigger them with the left ring finger and my left thumb. I am handicapped with my right hand, so this works fine for me. But cleaning the trackball mouse can be tricky.
The drawing tablet works fine after you get used to it. Actually, a tablet is sometimes better than a mouse. You can move the cursor as you like and you don't need to search for it on the screen. But I still use a mouse ...
The trackball used fot small desktop space not to relax your arm. You can lower and increase regualr mouse sensitivity to just use your wrist and fingrers without moving your arm.
How about using an external touchpad? (They come in both Bluetooth and USB versions, too.) That way, you’ve got the same peripheral interface whether you’re on a laptop or sitting at your desk.
after getting an altwork station I switched to touchpad because their mouse setup didn't really work for me. it's silent and I feel it's easier on the hands than normal mouse. if you ever get tired of a ball mouse, you can try that
What's up DT. I can relate to long hours editing music, video, photos. I found something called a "vertical mousepad". It put's your hand into handshake position with a regular mouse. I am much more accurate and quick with a regular mouse so I appreciate how the setup works. Hard to describe briefly. There's some trade-offs but overall worth it. May be another option for you. Orb control makes one called Mouseramp.
Ok, DT. But could you show how you have configured the buttons on your Linux OS ? Did you set some specific parameters or just use it with default setup ?
Is this easy to use with the left hand (for a right handed person)? I'm thinking to switch my mouse to the left because on the right its too far away due to numpad, so wonder if it's better to get a trackball for that case.
What about a trackpad like Apple Magic Trackpad? I've tried using a trackball and they're the absolute best device if you care about precision but I hate how the ball gets dirty every day and slows down if you don't clean it.
Actually I bought an Expert Trackball mainly based on your recommendation. Got it in an "as new" state on ebay for 55 bucks. It is a quite strange feeling but I think I am already hooked. The concept of using you complete hand to move the mouse around paired with the 4 buttons and the scroll wheel (yes, it sounds horrible...) is very unique. At least I look a lot more nerdy when using my computer now. ^^
Hey I am trying the expert. I love it. However I can't get the pointer speed to increase. I mostly use Garuda and endevour and plasma and xfce desktops. No matter what I set the pointer speed to, it just remains at the default medium speed. Any thoughts? Thanks!
You used to be able to use a cue ball years ago when they used mechanical rollers and those of us who have used them since they came with a serial port connector... Used various pool balls sadly when they went to the optical sensors they switched to the lighter smaller ball.
hey dt as i was looking into the scrool wheel aparently ,the Scroll ring fix for this model: Just remove the magnet. The scroll ring will be as smooth as the one in orbit. Add some silicone grease to the bearings and enjoy
Another convert! I've been using trackballs for over a decade. Like you I got twinges, so I switched and no more twinges. I started with the Kensington Orbit, a good basic trackball. Like you, I found that trackballs are entirely unsuited for games. How are you finding cleanliness? I find that the trackball itself takes the dead skin from my hand and deposits it underneath so needs regular cleaning, but there are two holes for screws which are impossible to clean. And the scroll ring is particularly prone to looking dirty and is also hard to clean; I barely use it, though.
Seeing how you operate the trackball, I just realized I use my standard mouse in kind of a similar fashion. My wrist actually stays in the same position and I am just moving the mouse under my hand with my thumb and my ring finger. I have to admit I got rather large hands and my mouse is set so a speed above average - so this might be not possible for everyone.
It was in 2001 when I saw first a Logitech upside-down mouse on the desk of the CFO of our company, and I asked him, what the heck is that? He talked so enthusiastically, that I bought one for me. The first couple of weeks were experimenting, than after a I was brutally fast with that trackball, faster than with the regular mouse. So, be prepared, that eventually you will be at least as fast even for gaming with trackpad as with a regular mouse. On the other hand, I practice regularly all input methods: touchpad, regular-, thumb- as well as finger operated track mice.
Great, I've been using this trackball for 2 years and I really love it. It wasn't difficult to switch from a "normal" mouse, it took I guess two or three days and even I learnt how to use it with both hands. But now when I try to code and select a piece of code, copy, and paste it isn't as accurate as I expected. 400 DPI couldn't be enough for me. I'm thinking about sell it and try with a more accurate alternative.
No, it sucked. I sold it after using it for a couple of weeks. It was my first vertical mouse, and I know why it is not that popular. With a traditional mouse, when you press a button, your finger pressure is supported by the surface; with a vertical mouse, there is no supporting material so the mouse itself could move instead of the button.
@@typingcat well, I continue to love my MX Vertical so to each their own. it does take some getting used to when transitioning from a regular mouse. I had the issue you're describing with an Anker vertical mouse, but the MX Vertical has a light touch in my experience which doesn't require much opposing pressure.
@@walking_on_earth I remembered more things that I did not like about it after writing that comment. First, the wheel sucked. It was not the frictionless scrolling, which is the biggest reason why I have been using Logitech's. Secondly, the side of the body was still covered with fragile rubber that is not even replaceable. All Logitech mice I have been using have holes on the sides, and it is very annoying. Since the MX Vertical was an expensive one, I thought it would be somewhat different, but no, just using it about a week already made scratch on the side rubber surface where my thumb rested.
@@typingcat the scroll wheel is definitely a weak point, given the price of the mouse. I haven't had any durability or comfort issues with the rubber though, after a year of use. the grip style you use might have a lot to do with your experience. again, what works well for one person may not work well for another.
I have been using an ErgoDox and a Trackball for over 5 years now. I would recommend to you that you try to place your trackball in the middle between the halves of your keyboard. In my oppinion it is better for your right shoulder that way.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Split keyboard: on
Trackball mouse: ready
Proprietary software: gone
RUclips shorts: horizontal
Yup, it's boomer time
It's the best time
Thinkpad: ✅
Arch: ✅
mouse pad activated
@UCNFkjkT000gkDy9h3JLbDZw DT know that he need to make the shorts in Vertical for them to get real views, but he think that you are crazy if you watch a video in Vertical mode and doing in horizontal to kick the man ... so the shorts is he make is just a joke
Gotta love DT
You have succesfully converted into a full meme setup.
No he's still missing the foot massager under his desk lol
@@camerontgore and the milking machine
full meme would be a 35% split keyboard with kailh low profile switches and a kensington slimblade in the middle
Not until he goes full on Gentoo CLI only mode.
@@camerontgore xD
Hey DT, are your chair and desk ergonomic as well? They're probably the most important things for proper posture and avoiding RSI.
Back strength is more important than chair.
@@TheRybka30 sitting will atrophy your back no matter the posture. maybe you can squeeze more life out of your back with a good chair but it will go bad if you are weak.
@@zvezdan956 twoel support best ting ever motivationaldoc be teaching meh
The secret to avoiding RSI is to reduce repetitive motions that cause tendons and muscles to be under continuous stress. Which means there is no magic bullet device that completely solves the problem. You need to switch on a regular basis between multiple different input devices. Since a big roller ball like the Kensington Expert requires a lot of finger movement it can actually make carpal tunnel inflammation worse. The tendons that move the fingers all go through a tight space in the wrist area where the carpal tunnel is also located. One of main devices I would recommend is actually a high quality multi-touch trackpad like the Apple Magic Trackpad, that would let you move the cursor around mostly by moving the entire hand from the shoulder, together with the forearm. But taking frequent breaks, keeping the muscles relaxed and noticing when anything feels under stress or irritated, and changing devices to change the stress patterns is what will really keep RSI at bay for life.
This is late but using an apple trackpad completely wrecked my wrist. I would recommend that no one buy the external apple trackpad.
@Davon Corbett By moving your arm (not shoulder) you reduce the amount of wrist bending, preventing wrist pain. Same goes for normal mice too I think.
@@penguinsushi8442 yeah, I tend to minimize my wrist movement when using a normal mouse.
@Davon Corbett dw no one cares if ur late fs
@@penguinsushi8442 imtrestimg will try learn tiss! Im a mouse research addictty with g603 4* mouse with tab swicth shortcuts and moarr!
finally, DT joined the trackballers
One of us
One of us
One of us
80 bucks though? Why are trackballs so expensive ? I can get a cheap mouse that works perfectly ok but I only found one cheapish handheld trackball and its a bit short on buttons...
@@fiddledotgoth I use the logitech trackman, its about 20 USD and it has its own article on the arch wiki. As far as being short on buttons, imo as long as i have left and right click and can get a middle click/scroll functionallity working, thats enough. The mouse should serve mouse-related functions and nothing more. If i have some special functionality I need I can handle it with a keybind
One of us
One of us
One of us
Logitech T-RB22 TrackMan for 15 years or so... Lol New ones on Ebay are $200 (US) and up, used $120...
Paid $50 bucks for the first one... Have 4 now... Lol
LLAP
One of us
One of us
One of us
@@fiddledotgoth I've had my Logitech T-RB22 TrackMan for 15 years or so... Lol
New ones on Ebay are $200 (US) and up, used $120...
Paid $50 bucks for the first one... Have 4 now... Lol
LLAP
Just got my Gameball Trackball 😍
Only after the purchase I found out the open source Ploopy Trackball would have been a comparable alternative too.
How does that mouse work with vim & emacs? 😉
it does not. you use the keyboard
@@francescovolpini Dude, it was a joke...lol
@@TheBlueThird i know you can't click on most terminals lol
@@francescovolpini I've found more terminals that you can click on than ones you can't. Just about setting it up usually.
Of course, it depends on what level of interactivity you expect that click to give you.
@@Tufhhuyy Mouse support is worthwhile for resizing splits in vim and tmux, imo
dude I don't have any rsi or carpal tunnel syndrome but I freaking love ergonomic stuff. been using trackballs and ergonomic keyboards for years. very happy that you show these awesome tings to lots of people
Thanks for this - valuable advice.
I first met trackballs when I worked for a software/systems contractor to the UK defence forces in the early 80's. They were in use on flight-control desks, and also on sub's. The balls were bigger than the largest ones I've seen available commercially, and must have cost a lot, but there were obvious operational reasons for using them. They were also built-in to the console desks, so their height was minimal.
I got an Expert trackball a long time ago and used it until I mainly used laptops and transitioned to pads. Coming back to desktop, I tried the Expert out again, as I now have some arthritis in my thumb and fingers.
I found it uncomfortable, for a couple of reasons - the height of the ball meant my wrist was bent too far back for comfort, and the ball itself was too far back towards me, which meant my fingers were also cranked back. Also, the buttons were too far forward, which meant I had to avoid moving the ball when I clicked them.
I really needed to avoid a mouse though, so I did some research, and ended up with the Kensington Orbit with scroll-wheel, instead. The ball is almost unique in being angled forward, and the buttons are towards me from it. The scroll-wheel is quieter than the Expert too. The only downside is the ball is smaller, which means it doesn't have such nice dynamics - those giant military ones were fantastic from that point of view, you could keep fine control of the pointer even when the environment was rockin' and rolling'!
Anyway, I'm sure you and anyone else would be making the right choice to go for a trackball for most applications. I have experience of all sorts of graphical interactive devices over five decades, from light-pens to gaze-directed input. When I first started in experimental psych, when we were doing experiments to track people's eye movements, the subjects had to heroically wear hard contact lenses with sticky-out reflective dots.. Oh, and I had the privilege of using one of the very first pen-input devices - it took up most of a small room, you were surrounded by relays and paper-tape punches, and the moment you put your stylus down on the small pad, the whole room erupted with noise, as you can imagine. It's all so simple now (*sigh*).
Lmao thanks for your sharing ur experience i learnt alot ✌️
6:00 the game part is Easy on a Trackball .... i got one of the Logi tech Trackballs that DT show in the start and i can play FPS NP, it is easy to make a 180 turn and get someone that is behind you
i use this kind of trackball for 10 years and it help me a lot, please try it will help you too.
Switched to this months ago and I too noticed a huge improvement with my wrist pain. Glad I made the switch before the pain developed into a more serious form of RSI. I agree the scroll wheel can be noisy, but after a while I stopped noticing it.
Can u record sound like this guy was talking so uh
Got my Expert a few months ago. Whenever I used a regular mouse, clicking would send a little jolt of pain up my arm. Haven't had any problems since switching over.
I've been exclusively using Kensington Expert Trackball's for about thirty years now. I recommend getting a gel pad to support the base of your palm or wrist.
I really enjoy your content dt
I appreciate that!
@@DistroTube
Nasty. Get better wrists.
As a software developer, I tend to use the mouse a lot at work, and I suffer from wrist pain since over a decade ago, when I did my PhD and worked about 12, 14 hours a day with a computer. Half a year ago, I purchased a Logitech Ergo (thumb trackball), and immediately felt that it was the right decision.
And one thing you mentioned hasn't been praised enough, in my honest opinion. The mouse is always at the same location. You do not have to look, you can stare at your code, and reach out to the mouse without hunting for it subconsciously. For me, who likes to stare my code to death like a cat looking at a laser spot, that is a total game changer.
I started using a Logitech trackman marble wheel in like 1997, when it finally crapped out after more than a decade of use I switched to the Logitech M570 which could be considered the much more cheaply built successor to my old one. I went through a dozen of them before I picked up an Ergo about a year ago and it has been the best version that Logitech has made. Such a great mouse. I've been using this mouse style for so long I can't use a standard mouse. I have even played competitive shooters with it and used it for gaming of every kind.
I also can say that I had an episode with Logitech M570 and I don't know if that's only my problem, but after using only this trackball at work and at home after some time I had a pretty bad thumb pain! Even if I felt in love in that thumb trackball I had to switch back to standard mouse.
@@przemprore I think it depends on very small details in physiology. For one a thumb trackball might be the best choice, for someone else these bigger ones for the whole palm like discussed here, a third and maybe the largest group will be most comfortable with a vertical mouse. The best mouse is that which you are comfortable with the most, I guess.
I switched 2 months ago to an expert wireless (because i love having my desk out of cables). This was a one-way ticket! The only complain: the provided wrist pad is not comfortable for my big hands; but I've solved it with a detached one, and sitting it down my wrist, which lets my fingers fall comfortably over the trackpad.
Almost 1 year after this comment, I can confirm that switching to a trackball is a one way ticket. Also, I've bought a second trackball for the office.
I was gaming on exactly that trackball last night. (I literally bought it so I could game again without the pain mice have been giving me since I received a bad hand injury)
Takes a bit of getting used to but once you get the muscle memory you fine. In the Kensington software you can enable acceleration, so the faster you soon the ball the further the cursor moves. Once you get the sweet spot between sensitivity and acceleration you good to go. I'm sure there must be some way to hack those under Linux too
I use regular mouse configured to high sensitivity. One micro-movement to move across both screens.
Before that, I had a prominent bulb below the palm on the right hand from constant friction with the table, now it's entirely gone.
Btw this keeps the mouse at almost constant predictable position as well.
Same, I just use high DPI for everything.
I use the Kensington Orbit Trackball with Scroll Ring -- love it
One thing that I can really recommend when using trackballs is enabling mouse wheel emulation(create file with new libinput inputclass in x configuration files) while holding one of the buttons, this way you can use the ball as an amazing scroll-wheel.
For Kensington I use the back button for it as it can still be used for it's original purpose without messing with other keys. Forward key might be better on other trackballs as you are less likely to go back in your browser/file manager by accident.
I got one of these for relaxing on the sofa while still being able to work the laptop and don't regret it despite the lack of mouse wheel
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353412440303?hash=item524905e0ef:g:89MAAOSwmZhgQNPp
Your post just nudged me to see if I can reprogram one of the buttons (which presently doesn't do anything; any idea on how to even find out if a button on a mouse device is registering...?
That's brilliant. I wish I had seen this before I posted my comment. I'll look into it.
@@fiddledotgoth I have Elecom relacon for a simmilar reason. It's not just for being a couch potato, it's pretty useful for desktop use as it's good when dealing with multimedia playback and just reading/scrolling trough lot of websites and documents with more relaxed posture.
Hmm sounds cool where u input this i aint got this btw
Hey DT, try putting the trackball inbetween your keyboard halves. It feels a lot better and you actually make a lot more use of the split nature of your keyboard with a way healthier sitting position
The only reason I don't want to change to a trackball is because of thumb clusters on my regular style mouse. I have mapped so many shortcuts to it, I feel naked without those thumb buttons.
However if I find a vetical style mouse with a thumb cluster, I'd switch instantly.
Trackballs can result in finger fatigue after long usage. From my experience, the best type of mouse (at least ergonomically) is something like a Wacom tablet, where you point the cursor with the stylus.
That actually makes sense because the forearm is not twisted.
Just thinking out of the air here, I imagine using vertical mouse could replicate the hand position of using stylus then, yeah?
I swear I was just searching for this exact trackball right before you uploaded. Using the Kensington Orbit right now, but probably going to get an Expert wireless for portable work.
Welcome to the trackball club, I've had an elecom huge for a year now they really help with strain they are amazing.
I love my Elecom Deft trackball although I would love to know how it compares to the Elecom Deft Pro... Vs kensington
@@iqgustavo I wouldn't know, the huge is amazing so I'm sure it would be a good trackball.
If you’re worried about RSI I strongly recommend a thumb type trackball. I used Kensington for a number of years, but it ultimately gave me RSI in my wrist. I switched to a thumb type and it went away and has been gone for years.
I ended up getting thumb pain from a thumb-style trackball lol. I think the ultimate lesson (especially as you get older) is to take breaks and stretch. Nothing is going to be ergonomically perfect for everyone, especially if you spend 16+ hours a day doing it.
@@Syncratci Same! Got thumb pain very soon after I got my 150 USD trackball mouse from Logitech. :( Had to stop using it.
Now, a year later I get thumb pain even if I play with my mobile phone for too long... I'm 35 by the way. I also have pains in my wrists and in the ass from sitting too much (also in the forearms, from the pressure of putting them on the desk, which I used to do until a few years ago - now I can't rest my forearms on chair or car armrests, the pain starts soon) - after 2 decades in front of a stupid computer for many hours practically every day. :(
Breaks indeed. Nothing else will do it. The terrible thing is you have no warning signs for many years and then it happens pretty suddenly ... and even if you stop doing it for months ... it comes back pretty soon when you start doing it again. :(
edit: I also have pains in the "balls" of the wrist, where you lay your hand on the pad/table when it's on the mouse. So I have to hold my hand in the air due to the too strong pain... :(
@@prometheus9443 Sounds like you need to see a physiotherapist, if you can afford one. I did that partway through my grad degree and it made a massive amount of difference in the amount of pain I was in. Also switched to a trackball :).
@@JM-tj5qm now my eyes are burning
I got m575 Logitech ergo,i love ma g604 too with many shortcut buttons but man it takes tolls on ma baby wrist 🥰 .. lookin at getting proper mx ergo now after week trial wig 575 as i want more shortcuts 🤭 hehe xD
switched from mouse to logitech mx ergo thumb-trackball. wristpains are gone and I'm happy with it.
I really love that thing, even though I'd prefer an angle in between those two of the Ergo.
I have this one because we cannot find simple USB wired trackball nowadays.
Good product, but less than the USB wired.
It'd be nice to see the comparison to a vertical mouse. Thanks for the video
back in my days the balls were under the mouse
Dude, It was in the Paleozoic era)
I've been using that exact mouse for a few years and I'll never go back
I think I'll personally keep using a "classic" mouse for now, but I've always been a big fan of using the mouse at high sensitivity levels (1000+ DPI) to reduce the overall necessary way of travel. Sure, it does require more dexerity, but also saves you from a lot of wrist/arm strain...
I'm using my mouse at 5000-6000 dpi...
@@absolutelyproprietary6896 I use my mouse at 12000 DPI
I've been playing the wired Expert Mouse for 5+ years now for video editing and gaming. I would love to move from optical sensor to laser but the scrolling ring on the new trackball is different from the old one. I wish Kensington would release a laser trackball with an independent scroll ring. I have pits on my Expert Mouse ball and asked Kensington if a replacement is available so I can extend the life on my trackball.
L-trac makes an awesome trackball with a laser. Ploopy makes a modern version of the Microsoft Explorer trackball which is no doubt the most ergonomic trackball ever created (and their stuff is completely open source too).
Since pandemic I am working from home with a standard logitech. But I will try this on my home office setup.
A long time ago I had a problem with my right wrist. I went to the doctor, did everything he said, all the tests and everything but nothing came out of all that. Then, I searched online for people who had the same or similar condition and found a vertical mouse from a university in the US that really was the game changer for me. After a short period of using it, the weird pain/annoyance in my wrist was gone.
Also, a very important thing I changed was not to use double-click anymore. Instead, I'm using single-click for opening files and everything else.
Those 2 things saved my wrist.
Hey DT what about the thinkpad keyboards? They inlude a trackpoint that you can use instead of a mouse I've heard they're pretty good
The trackpoint isn't as good as it used to be. It's shorter than it was, so it's harder to control it. Plus you'll be stuck with the ThinkPad keyboard (which is good as a laptop keyboard but definitely not as good as a mechanical keyboard).
I bought a pair of that same model over a decade ago now for the same reason. My wrists have thanked me ever since. A few years ago, my home one died after I dropped it. (misaligned the opto pair for the scroll encoder, and was never able to get it to work consistently again) I replaced it with a Slimblade and really like that one too. Speaking personally, I love trackballs for gaming too. I find the right acceleration curve paired with the ball's natural momentum very satisfying. You can just sort of fling the ball and catch it at the right time to stop it, almost exactly like you would scroll on a modern touchscreen.
Great video. Do u think a webdesigner could use this and get the job done?
Yes, absolutely.
I can’t believe you’ve overlooked the Slimblade model. It is right below these two on that amazon page! much more thought out, the scroll is done with the same ball and not an additional “ring” - by just rotating the ball clockwise-anticlockwise. And the sounds it produce are very satisfying
I had wrist pain for a while, so to combat this, I just rammed up my DPI, and use my fingers to control the mouse rather than using my wrist, or arm to move. It's helped a lot.
did that in chilhood. but for speed reasons in shooters :D Never had any problems, guess this was accidental strain prevention :D also cant use low sensitivity mouse or trackpads on computers, because not used to being that slow with a cursor :D
the Kensington expert is AMAZING. Its one of the few well made reasonably priced long lasting trackballs that is also ambidextrous, which I need since I'm left handed. I use it both at home and at work, since I'm using a computer 12-15 hours day (work/personal total). I usually use my pointer and middle fingers to operate the ball/scroll wheel, and map the lower right button for my left click to be operated with my thumb and the right click mapped to the upper left button to be operated by my ring finger. The other buttons I have mapped for different functions depending on the specific application (everything from autoCAD to zoom).
How well does it work in programming environments. I want to know if you had any issues with selecting text and scrolling in the editors.
That is one bizarre keyboard. The two things that helped me the most to reduce RSI were 1) reducing the use of the mouse in favor of keyboard shortcuts and 2) learning and switching to the Dvorak keyboard layout. Tiling window managers also helped me greatly, with their natural use of the keyboard instead of mouse for their general use.
The problem with mouse with ball was all the gunk that got stuck and had to be cleaned out frequently. Is that’s not an issue with trackballs?
I'm wondering if the models you show in the video are also better than a combination of a 'normal' mouse and a trackball? I saw quite a few of those when I searched for a trackball after this video
Can you add a sideways picture for the thumbnail so I can see the angle of the wrist when you use it? Thanks.
What also helps with a standard mouse is increase the pointer or acceleration speed, so that the pointer moves faster across the screen. less wrist movement. at least I think it helps, it helped me. Especially on a 1920x1080 screen resolution.
The mouse pointer usually moves slower on 4K screens, even with the speed/acceleration on max, it is noticable, imo.
I always used huge sensitivities on my mice, so never had that "wiping the table" injury, but acceleration hurts my accuracy, so never used that.
Where did you get the blue 55mm trackball?
Did the original ball make the same noise as your replacement? Didn't sound like it was OEM
I use the Moonlander keyboard mouse controls only for mouse control. Your hands never leave the keyboard, its amazing!
I use the top buttons for backwards & forwards, comes in handy when browsing the web and navigating through folders.
3:11 DT's GF: Hey DT, why are you so good at this? Well, I got some expert training.
)
Why not a graphics tablet?
since you use xmonad, can you talk about the session management? is there a way to use some sort of "system mode" like i3 with Mod+0?
Check the "dmscripts" repo on my GitLab. One of the scripts is called dm-logout.
@@DistroTube oh ok thanks!
Thanks for the review! Would you say you're as efficient with a trackball now as you were with a mouse?
I've been using standing mouse for a few months, great improvement over regular mouse as well.
You can help prevent rsi by turning up your dpi and wearing a cloth wrap on your wrist, helps alot
For anyone reading this, we must understand that our hands should not lie flat on desks. Our palm must be always in "half shake angle" or vertically placed compared to table surface. Hence, the most ergonomic stance should be a vertical trackball. Not otherwise. I would like to hear others openions too.
So how do one copy a text with the track ball
I wonder if it would be possible to have thinkpad style trackpoints (the red nub) added to the ZSA style split keyboards? one for each side could be compact and efficient
Hey DT! A quick question: have you ever considered using a apple magic trackpad on linux? Are there drivers available?
I live in a dual-world and due to my work I am stuck between Windows and Linux. On Windows there are some pretty good workarounds to get it working in a way that is quite similar to the performance over on a Mac, but I never tried / seen it on Linux. For some type of people it might be even more beneficial than using a trackball mouse like the Kensington models. I personally like to switch between different types of pointing devices: Trackball, Trackpad, Trackpoint (Thinkpad), Mouse. This prevents RSI best, I think, since you simply change the complete way of interaction from time to time.
For typing i use a 'floating' hand motion that i just sort of developed myself subconsciously as i was growing up. I don't anchor my hands or wrists to any point and just let them float freely over the keyboard like when you're playing a piano.
I can't touch type as i feel this puts your hands in an unnatural fixed position.
Moving your whole arms instead of your fingers makes typing a breeze. I use a computer for several hours each day and have done for the last 25 years, and i've never had a single ounce of pain in any hand, wrist, arm or fingers.
I also type 95wpm so not too shabby considering i only use two fingers on my right hand and one finger on my left hand, which i didn't even realise i did until i watched closely as i was typing this comment since i'm usually just looking at the screen.
A ball mouse sounds awesome though because i really hate using a trackpad and it's not always convenient to have an infra-red mouse depending on the surface.
does it allow shooter games or is it for map games?
Linus Tech Tips did a video on this. After some time, they were almost as fast with a trackball as with a traditional mouse. Personally, I've never tried.
Why not vertical mouse?
Hey DT, why would you not just map a second layer to your ergodox/moonlanader and use that instead? It's faster and more ergonomic than moving your hand.
Working in IT and doing college online, I use a computer for large amounts of time a day. I started using the Logitech MX Ergo M575, still getting used to it but the transition is far easier than I thought it would be.
Recently got the moonlander. I learned properly touch typing two years ago - before that I still didn't look at the keyboard, but I used my own style and maybe only 6 fingers and one of my thumbs. After learning the "proper" way, I got much faster but my fingers start hurting after a few hours of programming. Normal keyboards are really awkward for programming you're twisting your hands line a maniac to reach all the special symbols and brackets etc. I can't afford getting RSI, so I'm quite excited for my moonlander to arrive.
I'm wondering, because I use my mouse on high sensitivity and only bounce it around a little with my fingers without any bigger movements... I expect trackball do do basically the same job just with higher price.
Using an 'Expert' since 2019, I changed the Buttons setting with a '.conf'' file. The left top button is RMB and the Right down button is LMB, so I can trigger them with the left ring finger and my left thumb. I am handicapped with my right hand, so this works fine for me. But cleaning the trackball mouse can be tricky.
The drawing tablet works fine after you get used to it.
Actually, a tablet is sometimes better than a mouse. You can move the cursor as you like and you don't need to search for it on the screen. But I still use a mouse ...
The trackball used fot small desktop space not to relax your arm. You can lower and increase regualr mouse sensitivity to just use your wrist and fingrers without moving your arm.
How about using an external touchpad? (They come in both Bluetooth and USB versions, too.) That way, you’ve got the same peripheral interface whether you’re on a laptop or sitting at your desk.
after getting an altwork station I switched to touchpad because their mouse setup didn't really work for me. it's silent and I feel it's easier on the hands than normal mouse. if you ever get tired of a ball mouse, you can try that
What's up DT. I can relate to long hours editing music, video, photos. I found something called a "vertical mousepad". It put's your hand into handshake position with a regular mouse. I am much more accurate and quick with a regular mouse so I appreciate how the setup works. Hard to describe briefly. There's some trade-offs but overall worth it. May be another option for you. Orb control makes one called Mouseramp.
Ok, DT.
But could you show how you have configured the buttons on your Linux OS ?
Did you set some specific parameters or just use it with default setup ?
Is this easy to use with the left hand (for a right handed person)? I'm thinking to switch my mouse to the left because on the right its too far away due to numpad, so wonder if it's better to get a trackball for that case.
What about a trackpad like Apple Magic Trackpad? I've tried using a trackball and they're the absolute best device if you care about precision but I hate how the ball gets dirty every day and slows down if you don't clean it.
Actually I bought an Expert Trackball mainly based on your recommendation. Got it in an "as new" state on ebay for 55 bucks. It is a quite strange feeling but I think I am already hooked. The concept of using you complete hand to move the mouse around paired with the 4 buttons and the scroll wheel (yes, it sounds horrible...) is very unique. At least I look a lot more nerdy when using my computer now. ^^
Hey I am trying the expert. I love it. However I can't get the pointer speed to increase. I mostly use Garuda and endevour and plasma and xfce desktops. No matter what I set the pointer speed to, it just remains at the default medium speed. Any thoughts? Thanks!
You used to be able to use a cue ball years ago when they used mechanical rollers and those of us who have used them since they came with a serial port connector... Used various pool balls sadly when they went to the optical sensors they switched to the lighter smaller ball.
Hay DT, would a USB trackpad be equally as good? Perhaps a comparison video?
Hey DT, why did you go for this model specific and not for Logitech or the elecom huge?
is it possible to use trackball mouse to play a video game?
Or ... get this: turn down your dpi so you use your arm instead of your wrist. Has worked for me for years. You just need a big mousepad.
hey dt as i was looking into the scrool wheel aparently ,the Scroll ring fix for this model:
Just remove the magnet. The scroll ring will be as smooth as the one in orbit. Add some silicone grease to the bearings and enjoy
have you tried other keyboard layouts like colemak?
That Kensington from the thumbnail, but with grey ball just sits between the two halves of my lily58l.
Would never move back.
How do you drag and drop or select region with such things? I mean you have to press button and move pointer simultaneously. Is it convenient?
You can use a drag lock, which is super convenient
Another convert! I've been using trackballs for over a decade. Like you I got twinges, so I switched and no more twinges. I started with the Kensington Orbit, a good basic trackball.
Like you, I found that trackballs are entirely unsuited for games.
How are you finding cleanliness? I find that the trackball itself takes the dead skin from my hand and deposits it underneath so needs regular cleaning, but there are two holes for screws which are impossible to clean. And the scroll ring is particularly prone to looking dirty and is also hard to clean; I barely use it, though.
I'm 56 and still using Microsoft Trackball Explorer 1.0 USB. Currently looking for something to replace it. My index finger loves the Trackball.
Seeing how you operate the trackball, I just realized I use my standard mouse in kind of a similar fashion. My wrist actually stays in the same position and I am just moving the mouse under my hand with my thumb and my ring finger.
I have to admit I got rather large hands and my mouse is set so a speed above average - so this might be not possible for everyone.
It was in 2001 when I saw first a Logitech upside-down mouse on the desk of the CFO of our company, and I asked him, what the heck is that? He talked so enthusiastically, that I bought one for me. The first couple of weeks were experimenting, than after a I was brutally fast with that trackball, faster than with the regular mouse. So, be prepared, that eventually you will be at least as fast even for gaming with trackpad as with a regular mouse. On the other hand, I practice regularly all input methods: touchpad, regular-, thumb- as well as finger operated track mice.
are you gonna start using acme now?
Great, I've been using this trackball for 2 years and I really love it. It wasn't difficult to switch from a "normal" mouse, it took I guess two or three days and even I learnt how to use it with both hands. But now when I try to code and select a piece of code, copy, and paste it isn't as accurate as I expected. 400 DPI couldn't be enough for me. I'm thinking about sell it and try with a more accurate alternative.
Isn't a joystick better option?
As I use M575, my pain goes from my wrist to my thumb muscle. I still like vertical mouse more.
same, I feel no strain when I use vertical mice
Speaking of ergonomic pointer devices, Logitech MX Vertical mouse is awesome, been using it for half a year and very happy with it.
No, it sucked. I sold it after using it for a couple of weeks. It was my first vertical mouse, and I know why it is not that popular. With a traditional mouse, when you press a button, your finger pressure is supported by the surface; with a vertical mouse, there is no supporting material so the mouse itself could move instead of the button.
@@typingcat well, I continue to love my MX Vertical so to each their own. it does take some getting used to when transitioning from a regular mouse. I had the issue you're describing with an Anker vertical mouse, but the MX Vertical has a light touch in my experience which doesn't require much opposing pressure.
@@walking_on_earth I remembered more things that I did not like about it after writing that comment. First, the wheel sucked. It was not the frictionless scrolling, which is the biggest reason why I have been using Logitech's. Secondly, the side of the body was still covered with fragile rubber that is not even replaceable. All Logitech mice I have been using have holes on the sides, and it is very annoying. Since the MX Vertical was an expensive one, I thought it would be somewhat different, but no, just using it about a week already made scratch on the side rubber surface where my thumb rested.
@@typingcat the scroll wheel is definitely a weak point, given the price of the mouse. I haven't had any durability or comfort issues with the rubber though, after a year of use. the grip style you use might have a lot to do with your experience. again, what works well for one person may not work well for another.
I have been using an ErgoDox and a Trackball for over 5 years now. I would recommend to you that you try to place your trackball in the middle between the halves of your keyboard. In my oppinion it is better for your right shoulder that way.
how about a trackpoint? Something like on lenovo laptops.
is it good for programming?
HAL 9000 trackball
thoughts on trackball vs trackpoint?