Liquid sandpaper in fuel good for bearings?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
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Probably someone already mentionned before, but i'll repeat that it would be better to have aluminum surfaces at both sides of the rotary valve without grooves, but flat and shiny, like the new plate you have just put. You will have much less friction, because the gas/oil mixture will wet the surfaces with a lubricating film between the aluminium plates and the valve. The grooves you had machined will actually scrape the oil and increase friction.
And a tip for grinding aluminium: keep your grinding tool lubricated with oil or diesel or WD40, to keep it from clogging with aluminium.
Best of Luck!
At our machine shop here in Finland we use spirit burner, aka alcohol named Sinol to lubricate aluminium machining tools. Helps a lot! And it vaporizes after so no residue.
I've never seen an engine run with both the crank and big end bearings so destroyed like yours😂 This by itself is a accomplishment already😅
same 🤣🤣
Mine 2 stroke engine was as shto as his, maybe worse. It made also ticking sound when it ran. The cylinder, head, piston, crank and bearings were shot. The bottom end gave out becaue it was to worn out what i was putting it through. I replaced all parts what were better than oem, and now a days it's happy. Revs nicely and everything.
Engine have some power, hehe.
If it never breaks or wear down its to weak ;).
Always be prepared to repair. Analyze, improve and repeat.
I've flipped my fair share of pro grade garden equipment, primarily chainsaws. Got a Stihl 026 as a trade for a good runner. It would rattle if you shook it, but still start and rev to the moon but die under load. Someone had been inside it and stacked diy base gaskets to keep the piston from slapping the spark plug and going past swuish, that's how bad the bearings was. Still have the crank assembly sitting somewhere
@@7eisthat’s simply amazing. The crank seals held up through that?
RIP Mr. Big End & friends. They did well to last this long as it is!
One though on the PTFE coating.
PTFE is non stick. This means that oils and other liquids don't stick (there is a difference between low friction and non stick). This would be one reason you rotary is wearing quick. There is no lubrication, no oils stick to the surface. If you think of it, its the hole reason you hone a cylinder, so the oil sticks...
Good point, also ptfe is toxic and causes so many illnesses
Yup, that makes a lot of sense. Collective face-palming ensues.
PTFE has the lowest coefficient of friction of any solid material you need to slap yourself in the face.
I apply PTFE for a living. For industrial applications we won’t apply it if the application is too abrasive. So a two stroke is a very poor application.
Do you understand what you do for a living or just do it ?@@joeclutchless1944
On your worst day, the audio in your videos is loads better than a lot of fabricator content on RUclips. Keep up the quality vids
Back when I worked in a welding shop we used to use beeswax on the flap wheels when doing finish work. It worked great to keep them from clogging up with aluminum, and left a nice finish. We were making handrails, and bumpers that go around meat cases in supermarkets.
Im a welder making stainless prototype catalytic converters, and we use beeswax all the time. Works great for cutting, and abrasive wheels.
Yep I use bees wax non stop. Bar of soap also works, and when nether of those were available I’ve even used chain lube.
I would think mice would love beeswax even more. Just put the soap in a sealed container 🤦
@@jasonbirch1182 Yeah but, you've still got the tiny bits that fly off everywhere which will still attract them. I know people who use soap as bait in mousetraps so they definitely like the stuff. I have no idea about the beeswax but it sounds like it's very good for the job, I just don't know whether it'll attract mice too.
Thanks for the tip!! would this work on carbide bits too?
When I was working as a fitter/ turner - we always used chalk on files / burrs when working on Aluminium... worked great.
I can second this, solid advice
RUclipsr Rob Dahm has a Billet 4 rotor Wankel rotary engine and when they cut the intercooler and then welded some of those aluminum parts back together, the turbocharger blew that aluminum dust back into the engine and having abrasive aluminum powder run through is $35,000 engine was certainly a lesson that he didn't want to have to learn. The point is, everybody makes mistakes. And it will be fun to watch your engine when it is making power again. I always enjoy watching your videos and I think you for taking the time to film, edit, and post them.
I'm using a candle instead of soap to keep burrs free from aluminium. Works quite well.
yep, works wonders on angle grinding discs in ali as well.
Yep. We used paraffin wax in the aircraft industry.
Mostly on nuts and bolts to prevent lock nuts from galling.
Wax ia way better
I watched a guy build an aluminium boat, and he was using WD40 for everything sanding and grinding just an idea
Carbide burrs need ova ten grand.
That drill don't go that quick👍
That's why he vmoved to machine😂
"my engine started running like a 2 stoke should run! , for a little while then it stopped running agian..." that's the 2 stoke life!
I believe you’re on the cusp to making big power.
Your singular dedication to making this engine sing is admirable. I love watching your R&D efforts!
Bee's wax is quit effective. I worked in a shop that built aluminum gain hoppers . Ground aluminum for hours at a time.
I too suffer from cyclic organization/chaos in my garage. Stay strong. I hope you succeed in your quest. Jon
PS I'm also amazed that the engine didn't come completely apart with that much play in it. That speaks quite well in the work you've put into it
My grandchildren will enjoy watching you work on this 😊.
Alex, I must salute you Sir for leaving your errors in, so many, myself included, would edit them out. Bravo!
Best channel on RUclips. Lessons in how to bounce back from disappointment. Keep up the great work.
Great to see you diagnose the problem so easily. Your workmanship is without question and I understand that you are frustrated that this happened. However, when developing such an engine with extremely high revolutions, you are bound to come across issues that are totally unexpected. Looking forward to seeing you pass this hurdle and on to the next stage.
As mentioned by others on here, a suggestion to re-engineering the motor side of the valve to a 7022 GROOVELESS plate could also help as the oil/fuel will help cover the whole valve (and both plates) with a thin friction reducing coating. As you may know, two totally flat plates, with a little oil between always slide nice and smooooooth. So, the motor side of the valve will also have to be reworked to get a balanced & lubricated valve 'Motion' so to speak, as I don't think having the motor side of the valve with 6082 series Ally + grooves will help matters 🤔
😎🇬🇧
The play in that piston at the end had me shocked
lol me too! Worst Ive ever seen in my 30 years of rebuilding my two stroke motocross bikes. it looks like a couple millimeters! How that thing didnt come apart at those rpms is a mystery
instead of using a piece of pan, why don't you used some cerakote ? it's like ceramic coating to avoid friction. It's used on piston skirt for friction and piston head to keep heat in combustion chamber. Some cerakote you don't need to cure in an oven. wish you the best for your project
Whoa! Excellent design; merrily ate it's own bearings, yet stayed in one piece . . . 'Reverend!' : )
Either way it was probably due for a teardown and inspection anyway. I'm excited to see what happens with a fresh rebuild!🎉
The rotary valve my old Kawasaki KH had was only about 0.5mm thick and made from spring steel. Felt like a large feeler gauge or a weirdly shaped leaf spring. It just ran in the same aluminium casting the block is made from with roughly another 0.5mm of axial clearance.
It was located on the crank with what looked like gear teeth and one wider tooth that worked like a key so it could float axially and still be indexed positively. The gear profile on the crank was just a little collar that was either pressed or keyed to the crank. (I never split the case so idk for sure)
I'd start with something similar to that, for the same reason you simplified the engine setup a lot recently. You can always make a system more fancy once the basics work.
Edit: Oh yeah and the rotary valve housing didn't have any interesting features inside I don't think. Maybe some faint cross-hatching? Would make sense but I'm not sure about that, it's been too long.
From time to time...I look for for old Can-Am RUclips engine...not much going on there...
There are some manuals with parts listed...
that 100cc engine also "pressure trickles" the main bearings using the oil injection pump
also injects right before the rotary valve
.
i fully rebuilt a 1974 kawi G5
chrome lined cylinder bore also
.
EXCELLENT, overbuilt, rev happy little engines...
just dont "PRE MIX BRO!!!! MIX GAS HAUL ASS!!!!!"
.
disabling oil injection bad!!!
@@kainhall Mine was a '79 125cc. It only injected the oil into the carb bowl, making it functionally the same as a premix from the valve's POV.
I've never seen direct oil injection in any two stroke in the wild.
@@Bassaliciousall the scooter engines i know of pump oil into the intake manifold, but im not sure if thats considered direct injection
@@zoniyat8519 Yeah I know a few engines like that too. Nothing like the direct main bearing lubrication kainhall was talking about though. From the POV of the rotary valve a system like that is also equivalent to carb bowl injection or premix anyway.
I was visualizing at least 3 oil feeds from what kainhall said; two for the main bearings and one in the intake in front of the rotary valve.
I've never seen more than a single oil feed per cylinder. Multipoint direct oil injection doesn't really sound necessary or worth it to me unless fuel is either directly injected or into the transfer ports or something.
Edit: I just made up the "direct lubrication" or "direct oil injection" terminology, I hope it makes some sort of sense. No idea if it's actually called that or if a completely discrete lubrication system was ever actually a thing.
Good video, nice to hear work shop noises & no rubbish back ground music ,
Interesting R & D .
Rebuild the engine, and let's try again. Each time you're trying something different. Your exploring eventualities looking for advantage. Many paths lead to nowhere, but a few will bring progress.
impressive that it still ran
Your calm tenacity is inspirational!
Hey man, on the bright side it had to RUN to destroy bearings! It'll scream again in no time. Looking forward to dyno numbers!
Keep up the good fight.
I did wonder what the fallout from the slurry was on the last video...I'm amazed the piston and bore held up so well! Probs about due a refresh anyhow with all the testing in varied conditions....says the top end is a lot less fragile than it might have been...bonus 😊😊!
I had a 90cc Kawasaki when I was a kid, I "inspected" the top end and forgot to install one of the wrist pin keepers. That pin wore a groove 20mm wide and 10mm deep before it wouldn't run anymore.
"I think I know what the problem is" would be good merch...
Use vaseline or valve grinding paste on the burr when grinding aluminium. It keeps it unclogged.
If nothing else is available candle wax will do too.
Any lube will do. Wax is preferred.
I was waiting some kind of bearing/rod damage for the last 4-5 videos. It's so angry sounding and revving 50cc with stock rod, piston and crankshaft. Keep up the good work!
With the steel valve, if there is some diameter that goes further than where the port is, you could leave a "ring of material" around it to help balance it out further.
Bruker rødsprit på aluminium. Har det i ei lita sprayflaske. Det funker helt ypperlig. Brukes til roterende fil for grading etter maskinering 😊
Many years ago, a famous Italian tuner/racer and builder of his motorcycles and engines, being from the Emilia Romagna area where tiles are produced, confessed that, with his rotating discs, he had gotten to the point of thinning the stoneware ceramic tiles to obtain discs because the carbon was consumed and released residues that went to damage bearings and the rest.
I use WD-40 for a cutting fluid with aluminium. So many uses for that stuff. Diesel works too.
That’s for HSS rotary burrs, I don’t use grinding stones on aluminium ever
i read a study recently that showed how the friction of oil seals is reduced when there is debris introduced, the little peices of dirt themselves reduce contact area of the bearing which reduces friction---to a point, until it starts wear process
It been so long now, I've forgotten why you are not using a reed valve?
All the best Alex, keep up the great work! Cheers.
He was using reeds, but changed to rotary because he was having problems and suspected that the reeds wouldn't work with his low crankcase compression ratio. Since then it seems that wasn't the problem after all, but there are still doubts over how well reed valves will work at such high rpm.
Compared to a reed valve controlled piston port intake layout, a rotary valve has superior performance providing minimum intake flow restriction with the intake port opening, open duration and closing timing independent of the piston position. A rotary valve intake port will flow more air than a piston port reed valve intake with a wider power band.
Would steel circular ripsaw blades be a good resource to make your spinning valve from.They are made to not distort at high rpm.. Very flat… Good work, keep it up!
A good quality circular saw blade is pre tensioned when manufactured .if a section is cut out it will lose tension and wobble at speed. Also heat will also cause the blade to loose tension and cause wobble/run out. I know as I am a saw doctor by trade
@@baatoolingwell pure cutting shouldn't ruin the tention but most cutting induces heat in the steel that ruins the temper waterjet would be a way to keep the temper
"Conductive-Schmoo". A great name for some yet-to-be-identified racing product!
we used to use Tallow to load the frinding wheels for aluminium head skimming etc.
What did all the old factory rotary valve engines use? I had a ‘76 Kawi KE-100 and a ‘77 Kawi 175 that had rotary valves, obviously not at these power levels and RPM, but I put a ton of miles on both. I liked how clean the engines looked because the carbs were hidden inside the side of the case. Invisible carb I told people 😂
Love your videos mate followed from beginning taught me a huge amount keep it up pal
Come on JP weld get your shit together, it's about time you sponsored this channel !
Bees wax or tool stick wax. It also works well on sanding discs when working with aluminum although kind of messy.
Everything is heading in the right direction.
If you turn the volume all the way up at 10:45 and walk away, it sounds like an orchestra tuning in A.
9:29 simple candles. The cheap ikea ones are made from paraffine. Its used for anti clogging on non ferro materials like burs and fine pitch saws.
Maybe titanium rotary valve
BUT
Alex an option :- make rotary valve disc/plate FULL CIRCLE and then cut your inlet portion into the full circle a (guess) giving it more strength being full circle it may stop flex and flapping while rotating .
JUST A THOUGHT/OPTION.
Maybe out of the same tuff alloy as cover for rotary valve
Cheers
Always nice yo see your vids in my recommended
That bit of hard aluminium, it just sounds hard, its a beautiful sound. . Making a gate this week ,I missed a strut thickness and need to cut 40mm off 40 wood planks without my better half finding out. 35 years ago I made the same error forgetting the thickness of a shelf to fit wine bottles. Thank goodness for horizontal racks. Theres always a solution when you have epoxy.I made a set of sandpaper shelves . not much use on the gate project. ho hum. stay cool dude. and get a thermal camera. just what you need , an additional input. full spectrum camera, motion amplification .
I suggest candle wax to keep chips clear. Also when using forstner bits as the bits heat and swell up resulting in binding in deep holes.
I’ve been messing around with Tungsten Disulfide and some Molybdenum Disulfide added to my fuel the problem is that it doesn’t stay suspended but I figure some thing is getting through the fuel filters and I haven’t been putting but 1/2gram of each to 5gal. I know I missed a bunch of episodes but in one a year ago you were using starting fluid , maybe that started your bearing failure? We did run a leaf blower on tungsten and molybdenum disulfide and gas (no oil). It didn’t lock up and still runs. Not sure for how long it will. Also I’ll cryo treat my parts at home with liquid nitrogen. Liquid nitrogen is fairly cheap and fun to play with.(just don’t run AirHog airplanes on it the air tanks like to pop)
Oh yeah it's a good day, 2 stroke stuffing day, woohoo. Edit: Sad ending but I'll be waiting for the next episode. Best youtube channel ever!
Bees wax works well to stop the clogging you can also use normal candle wax aswell
I used automotive cavity wax spray to cut aluminium with diw grinder, worked fine
Looking forward to post rebuild runs on dyno. The fast forward footage of cnc milling process made it sound like it was making R2D2 noises 😂
Damn.. what a torture! I feel you😂 Stay strong man!💪
Something to consider with alloys is the temper. 6082 is nearly always T6 which is full hard I think. Other tempers are available.
Ah man what a bummer, that good was nasty stuff eh ,here's to the fix going well ,amazed it didn't blow apart with all that movement both ends.
We use T-röd when cutting alu to keep it from clogging the tools.
Perhaps a thrust bearing on the shaft between the valve and case?
Marine grade silicone bronze…Use the centrifugal. and collect the dirt in a groove. Or…look ate the Bernoulli effect to let the plate fly on an aircushion.
I always wondered how you would change the big end bearing, I will find out next time in your garage. I wonder how long it's been bad.
Usually just press-fit big-end pin - press apart, replace bearing/pin/conrod as needed, press back together carefully to ensure proper axial clearances. Can be tricky to get each crank web aligned radially when reassembling. Need crank stubs to be aligned perfectly to avoid destroying the case bearings or cause other damage. Usually done by careful tapping with a hammer and checking runout. Dial indicator, shop press, hammer, v-blocks are basically all that's needed, but takes finesse to make adjustments of something like 0.01mm with a hammer, haha.
It's easy. I have done more than a few on bikes with no special tools other than a 20 ton press.
How does the post on skirts and cylinder look? Isn't the entire engine fucked at this point? Of course it's rebuild able, but it needs a major overhaul, and then it will run great! Can't wait to see the next episode!
Never give up, i love your videos, problems are to solve😊
kerosene and oil is a rudimentary crc, I used to use it when i was an engine reconditioner
Wd40 works well on preventing aluminium to gum up on the carbide, i use it when porting aluminum head.
@2STROKE STUFFING Best of luck rebuilding the engine after fully cleaning off all the carbonated PTFE 'gunk' in it !!. ..PTFE as used on kitchen pans, is not 'low friction' as it used in plain-bearings/spacers, but is a 'non-stick' heat/thermal transmitting coating, not for pressure; while the same class of material, it is not the same formulation of polymer.
Remember to REFIT the CRANKCASE DOWELS on that Engine !!
..as you left them out when you last rebuilt engine before you mounted it into the Aprilia; and it is likely some of bad running was from minor misalignment from the crankcase halves, certainly the contaminated cooling fluid gunk is from that particular issue.
You might want to think about having the crankcase's main bearings being force fed some oil, from say a Yamaha's or external oil pump feed system from a 1970s/80s era of 80cc, 125cc or 175cc, to help keep the main bearings lubricated, & to reduce the effect of micro-scale debris (such as the carbon fibre PTFE & soft aluminium particulate sldge/gunk) getting into them by having an oil feed flushing through the bearing into the crankcase space itself.
For the clogging tool use cutting wax. You're slowly getting there!
If I were you I'd make independent oiling system without mixing oil and fuel. Separate oil pump-semiclosed shaft bearings-hole inside crankshaft-hole between two semiclosed bearings on crankshaft-very long hole inside conrod-hollow shaft with hole inside piston- rest of oil going to the piston rings. Hollow shaft inside piston must be fixed to conrod. Semiclosed bearings have cap with rubber lip only on one side. Much more difficult to do but better lubrication scheme.
a thought. maybe a shim to keep the carbon fiber or new metal rotary valve to a tollerance. so the vacume doesnt make the rotary valve eat into the metal ? must it be completely against the block?
That 'burned aluminium' stuff you mention is aluminium oxide - extremely abrasive and hence used to make sandpaper. Combine that with glass fragments and you might as well have lubed the motor with grinding paste :-(
Onward and upward though - fingers crossed and I never miss an episode. Cheers!
Use transmissionoil for the burrs, 80w90 smells bad but the oilfilm is super strong. I use OK/Q8 T65 75w90
Alex: Irish Spring soap actually repels rodents! I use it when storing my summer cars in the barn!
A engineer I knew used candles to stop sand paper and grinding discs from clogging might work on burr bits too.
Little bit of piston wobble? My rd400 had over 5mm of play before rebuilding it. Good luck keep going!!
Idea for you
Would it help to put automotive hardwax on the sliding doord on the CNC machine to make the coolant run off immediately? Would probably help on wqtching the part.
Could always use break cleaner to take it off 🤔
Great Episode.
Heart wrenching, but -- BUT! --- the effects were rapid, and you could figure out the problem quickly, so will be back to the main goal in no time. Personally, I'm amazed that the piston has lasted so well. I can't remember, was this one coated with nikasil, or was that a previous piston? Hopefully the fix will be limited to bearing replacements (and things like the con rod are OK despite the beating), but I'm sure you'll be checking tolerances and straightness all around.
Could you also consider plasma ignition if not already using it? The simplest looks like 1-2 uF capacitor, connected to 300-600V supply with current limit to survive shorts, then string of many ultrafast diodes with total voltage say 80-100KV or more, connected by cable to HV coil and spark plug. Diode and capacitor charging polarity depends on polarity of hv pulses from coil. Idk who invented that but it looks great. Coil just ignites spark, its polarity closes diodes. Then voltage drops, diodes open and capacitor discharges through spark gap. Imho that system will be like: conducting dust? what dust?
What about a titanium valve?? Possibly with a small steel counterweight ? Maybe a ceramic coating on the aluminum!
Mig welding anti spatter spray works well on carbide burrs
The piston rings, and bore have likely also been sanded by the shmoo, less compression as a result.
May I recommend using ultra fine graphite powder, it was an additive commonly used and proved to extend life of parts and keep heat distributed better
Well the problem is Grafite is conductive and will shorten the spark plug if it goes in the crankecase
C'mon, you didn't watch the video? Engine made graphite itself from carbon valve.
Maybe try a hyper eutectic Aluminium Silicon casting alloy If you can get some in the right form. Often the alloy of choice for pistons which run against a hard cylinder. it is relatively wear resistant might work for the wear surfaces of the rotary valve?
A cheap candle (wax) is good to keep the tool from galling up.
You should tjeck if everything is 0,01mm parallel and right angled, friction is then much less.
A long list of stress has been applied during the numerous times operating on the dyno. Grinding the carbon paste finished it off. Over fueled, over rev and lean burn etcetera.
Finding the reason to not is better than not finding the reason why.
I usually use a few drops of 5-56 oil when grinding alu.
Bees wax works good for soap replacement. But, mice may like it too!
you can use candle vax when drilling aluminium
I’ve said it before, try surfboard wax to stop aluminium grab up. You said ski wax might be similar.
The struggle is real.
❤
9:21 Stearin cutting wax for Aluminium. See if you can get something like that in Finland.
I love this channel 👍
Paraffin wax or grease works good for carbide burrs and Aluminium and WD-40
Question? if you got to a supercharger would it be possible to run without any value on the intake and also the larger crank case will be less of a factor? As it will be the super charger pushing the air into the combustion chamber and not the down stroke of the piston???