Dettori v Piggott You decide
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- This video made about 20 years ago compares the talents of Lester Piggott and Frankie Dettori, narrated by Robert Cooper and despite the fact that Mr Dettori has achieved many more glittering prizes since; I still disagree with the final verdict.
Piggott was in a class of his own, there is no comparison.
Am a New Yorker I remember the breeders cup races in the late nineties when Frankie comes to America to reside horrible he had the best horse few times but his judgement of the track style he blew races cas he didn’t adjust not close as smart as Lester
I agree, but I'd rather have Frankie as a person 😉
@@emmaransford you want the greatest jockey on your horse not the nicest person🐴🙄
He was the greatest, yes, no argument there, but pat eddery could very well compare, but piggott I admit was king of the jockeys, pat was the Prince!
No contest Lester's record speaks for itself
Piggott there is no other like him. Legend is an understatement he was a phenomenon.
Piggott was a genius imagine winning the Derby at 18 years of age
When Dettori wins 9 English Derbys and numerous other continental.classics + 10 Ascot Gold cups then he can be mentioned in the same breath as The Long Fellow.
Spot on. Couldn't agree with you more.
Well said, Dettori can go to be among the first ten.
I base my info on research and got to know
I knew his father personally That was called back in the 80's IL MOSTRO
BACK HOME in Milano. I also knew his uncle Sergio...
Dettori had a good carrier and good winners thanks to his Higness al makhtoom, sfter the fall out of lanfranco with his highness we didn't see the continuous winners, how come?
Once we speak about a true TALENT AND A GIFTED HORSE MAN, WE MUST MENTION L.PIGGOT. HE WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE SOUL OF THE RACE.
Lester , put a spell on the horses .! AND COULD GET A DONKEY HOME ! To win . Mesmerised them to Win , UNMATCHABLE Talent, we will never see again.
I'm Italian but no doubt :
The Great Lester Forever !!!
Lester Piggott was the King of Kings, the flat jockey of the 20th century. He had the ability to relax and settle a horse the moment it came out of the stalls and had the knack of being in the right place at the right time in order to pounce late on. He also had an awareness like no other. He not only knew exactly how well his own mount was going he also had a feel for how the others were travelling as well. His Roberto win in the 1972 Derby was superlative. Rheingold looked all down the straight like he would nose him out of it, especially because he was on Piggott's outside with the canber favouring him but Piggot's force was unmatched before or since. There was only going to be one winner because when Lester really wanted it, invariably he got it.
Far more often than not he got it right. On one occasion this didn't happen however. Riding for his brother-in- law Robert Armstrong at Ascot one day on House Guard, in the paddock Piggott told him that he was going to win the race by a short head. He got it wrong and won by a neck! Racing's all about opinions and I think some of those that vote for Dettori maybe aren't old enough to have seen Piggott in his prime.
In all The Years I Have been Following Horse Racing .There Is No Jockey As Good as Lester Piggott Without Doubt The Greatest Jockey The World has ever seen .Dettori is not in the same league he has not even won 3.000 winners in the u.k Let alone nearly 5.000 like Piggott .Lester Proved How Great He was when he came out of retirement and rode Royal Acadmey In the Breeders Cup ..The Best Jockeys I seen on the flat was 21 Lester Piggott 2. Pat Eddery 3. Mick Kinnane 4. Johnny Murtagh .5. Frankie Dettori
👏👏👏 only 1 long fella 🙌🏇
@@jim2473 Frankie comes Second and pat 3rd for me. Lester is out on His own .
R.i.p the Greatest
Strength in the finish decides the quality of the great jockeys and this is why both more often score in tight photo finishes. Skill wise Piggott.
Lester by a country mile. A true legend of the sport
It's the ultimate insult to even consider Dettori is in the same class as the great man. Never in a million years could he be compared to Piggott. Comparing Dettori to Piggott is simple, there's no comparison.
Lester is simply in a class by himself
Been following horse racing for many years. And I have seen many a good jockey. But the very best by a long way is with any doubts is Lester piggott. His record speaks for itself. He had no goldophin supplying him with top horses. He got the best rides simply because he was the best jockey for the big occasion. Like when lester came out of retirement and won the breeders cup on Royal Academy .Trainer the great Vincent O Brien knew lester piggott was the best for the job. Vincent O Brien said piggott was worth 7 lengths in a race. Pat Eddery would be next best
Tbf tho Frankie's Two Derby wins werent on Godolohin Horses, and He went through the Card on Qe2 Day. I have Him 2nd to Piggott
@@kevinmunday5782 then you know nowt about horseracing g if you think dettori is better than pat eddery, do yo honestly think dettori would have won on grundy if he had been riding against bustino I 1975 king George?? I honestly do not pur dettori in top 50 jockeys of all time, how embarrassing for you😡
Living in Newmarket, my uncles dad was Lester Piggotts driver. I met Lester several times in Newmarket with my grandma as she knew him. Lester Piggott will always be the greatest to me. I'm not being biased but Lester was racing when horse racing was at its best. Jockeys today are no way in yesterdays league with Lester or any of those jockeys in 70s and 80s
I totally agree yesterday's racing was so much better as well
awesome story😮
Piggott will always be the best jockey on Earth.
Lester piggott unbelievable, outstanding, always the number 1 choice
I'm Italian...but no doubt.
Lester forever !!!
Frankie still has some way to go to match Lester's record, except of course at the Arc. The fact that Lester is still way ahead of Frankie at Royal Ascot is remarkable as there are now more races at Royal Ascot as the meeting has been extended to Saturday. However Frankie's record at Ascot outside Royal Ascot is amazing.
One aspect of Lester's greatness has not been mentioned. The thing is he changed so much other than just winning. He changed the tactics. When he started the convention was to track the leaders and come with a driving finish. If everyone adopted this tactic, the race could be very slow indeed. Lester showed how winning from the front could be done. Frankie is a master of this too but it was Lester who brought the tactic back. Lester established the tactics at Epsom and then showed how you need not be a slave to them. He taught a thing or two to US jockeys too with Sir Ivor and Karabas. He also changed technique. He is the one who shortened the stirrups so much. I think he got it from US where having starting stalls made it so much more effective. He also changed how jockeys were paid. He negotiated a percentage of stud fees and did so well from this that he got caught evading tax. But the extra money also came to other jockeys. This was happening across sport but Lester was the one who changed it in horse racing. He also pioneered international riding, especially of course in France and then in US and also in Hong Kong. Of course air travel made this possible but Lester was the pioneer.
Willie Carson, no great fan of Lester at a personal level, draws attention to a little observed talent of Lester which was his ability to ride in the bulk of the race so efficiently. And his amazing techniqie is what made him so apparently still in the saddle until the finishing burst was needed. It was not just the high bottom that made him so easy to pick out, it was also his stillness.
One peculiar thing about him was that he was a megastar without flamboyance. He wore the same miserable face after winning as he had after losing. And yet he was magnetic, utterly compelling.
Wonderful insight Tim. Many thanks for your comments
Very very true
Crap! Note, Lester rode the best horses there were during most of his career.
@@roderigodetriano this must be some kind of wind up eh?? Dettori is literally not in Lester's league, or pat eddery's!! I genuinely would not put him in top 50 jockeys of all time!!
@@dougreed2257 must be a Ryan Moore fan
Never in this world could anyone come near lester. Miles ahead of any jockey the master tactician.
The other comparison is in Group 1 victories.
In the 33 Group 1 races, Piggott outscores Dettori in 24, Dettori outscores Piggott in 5 and 4 are equal. So it is not only in Classics Piggott has such a better record. Dettori won more in France. Piggott also won over hurdles, including one at the Cheltenham Festival
Yes I believe it was a seller, they had one at the festival in those days, he also won The Triumph then run at Hurst Park
@@roderigodetriano He also rode sea pigeon
Lester ride all over the world . No doubt he is the best.
Lester won the derby nine times, a feat that will never be equaled, and many classics, Dettori is a very good jockey but he’s not the jockey lester was, piggott also won the jockey championship eleven times.
"A rather small field of 22" is how the commentator describes the 1954 Derby!
Sir Lester Piggott.Simply the Best.
Ah ah dettori not in the same class lester was the greatest , a born winner britains best ever sportsman
Lester and it's nigh on blasphemy to be even having a debate about it in the first place - I would also put the like of Willie Carson, Steve Cauthen and Pat Eddery just above Frankie if I am honest.
Two great jockeys, but there is only one Lester, the best of all time!
Agree with you but L Franki was also greatest
@@dytjayasinghe Michael Kinane and a lot more.
Best by far, best breeding and best judge of horses bar none
@@djbillybopdjbillybop2817 to me fallon is the best ，a bit crook but the greatest
How is Pat Eddery not a part of the conversation. Lester had the pick of the best Horses because he is English. The Irishman and the Italian are much better than Lester in my humble opinion.
Lester was in a totally different class there not even close betting on who’s best 1/10 lester
You can't compare sportsman from different generations..it doesn't make sense...both fantastic jockeys and the best of their generations 👏
Well Spoken. Hats off to you Garry. You are a logical and reasonable person. The question is, or should be, who has been the greater ambassador for the sport worldwide.
That's a fair point. However, I would stake my life on it that if Lester and Frankie were contemporaries, Dettori wouldn't have got a look in. And I think most people would agree.
@@kurman4749 rubbish..pat eddery was once asked..who is the best around at the moment..and he replied.. the little Italian fella has wonderful hands and is the best around... quote from the great man..
@@kurman4749 they were contemporaries at one stage. Lester is a clear winner. 9 Darby wins, unbeatable. Frankie is fab, but lester was an enigma. Pure genius in the saddle. Of late Frankie became something of a legend, but Lester is a bigger legend
@@garrydean8670 having watched the brilliance of both, over many years, Pat may have said that, but from where I'm sitting, the long fellow was just too good. He could pull off the impossible. Both exceptional jockies, but Frankie gets pipped at the post, I'm afraid
Lester rides in Jamaica my hometown. R Still, G Duffield, D Mc Kay, J Lowe, Daddy Joe Mercer, LC Parkes , Bryan Taylor, N Day and couple more. No other top greats , not even north America. Lester the tall fellow. Worldwide greatest. 💯
There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Lester is without the greatest jockey that ever lived a genius. There will never be anyone to match him. It is a disgrace that he has never been knighted.
I'm with you there Paul. I'm sure The Queen is too. Normally right that she has no say but I think she should intervene here before it's too late. He only fiddled his taxes and that was over 30 years ago. Hardly Saville and he got a K!!!!
@@roderigodetriano totally agree. No doubt the queen would love to knight the great man.
Lester was knighted but it was removed when he was imprisoned for tax fraud but I hope one day his unique achievements are recognised fully & reinstating his knighthood would be a good start.
@@derekhedges9780 sorry to have to correct you but Lester was given an OBE and had it taken off him when the tax thing came up. He was not knighted. But when I see the tossers who get these thing these days I don't feel Lester is missing out so much. He was and is my all time sporting hero, the greatest jockey of all time and will never be equalled
no contest lester by 20 lengths and going away .easily.hard held.
No contest, Lester’s records say it all & his longevity at the top after his first win aged 12 & last win aged 59 confirm there has never been or never will be a jockey that can compare to him. Even Frankie asked Lester how to ride the Epsom Derby.
Agreed Derek. Without question probably by now the oldest and greatest sporting legend in the world still living
I rather Frankie riding style he gets more out of his horses you can not ignore a jockey who rode 250 group 1 winners the jockey colony that Frankie competes with is more competive than in Lester time
Hugh Chambers Having seen both jockeys ride, both are great jockeys but Lester’s longevity at the top & the record classic wins, his starvation routine & his adaptation to a riding style to accommodate his tall frame, winning class one races over hurdles, riding without retainers & still winning the jockeys championship. I’ll grant you that Frankie is a more amenable character but imho, not quite as good as Lester.
@@hughchambers7069 utter rubbish
Well he obv didn’t listen
How many Derby’s has Dettori won ? Can’t believe this question apples and pears 🤷♂️
Don't get me wrong, I love Frankie! He's been the best thing going in the saddle for at least the past two decades. But who's better, just ask Frankie and I'll guarantee you Frankie will tell you they came no better than Lester Piggot................period EOS!
There is no contest. Lester is the greatest and even Frankie would tell you that.
Lester. Without any doubt in my mind. Just as Joe Louis was the finest heavy-weight professional boxer of all time....Hard times beget hard men.
His winner in 1991 Indian Turf Invitation cup at Madras Race Club on Dilage is still rated as one of the greatest Indian Races ever.
Dettori isn't even in same league as piggott. You can put eddery. kinane. Fallen. Murtagh. Smullen all ahead of him as well
Shouldn't compare the pair riders. Both are exceptional.
Dettori has only come of age in the last 3 or 4 years too weak in a finish in years gone by ! Lester by a mile
Lester by a very big smile at that.
How is this even a contest! Piggott was the greatest who ever got on a horse any place any time! Even Dettori would agree with that.
Yes Jaqueline I think he would that's a given
ok lesters the piggot the best
Totally agree with you. It's an embarrassment and a total insult to mention Dettori in the same breath as Piggott. He wasn't even as good as Eddery or Fallon, let alone Lester.
What about Tony McCoy?
Question:Why did most jockeys win their last race on retirement day?
Lester Piggott no doubt
Lester. Genius!
Piggott is easily the best.
Why easily?.
Lester Piggott was the best! Frankie Dettori is a great Jockey too!
Interesting to know that Peter Best ( The Original Beatles drummer) mother Mona pawned all her jewelry to bet Never Say Die in the 54 Epson Derby. With the money she bought a large house in Liverpool and that's what started the Beatles. To put it in a better perspective, that race was the first link in the formation of the group. The horse Never Say Die almost died at birth, the owner poured a shot of whiskey down his throat which probably saved him from dying. Had he had died, there would have been no "Never Say Die" and no bet by Mona and NO BEATLES!
Great story I had no idea
@@roderigodetriano I remember Pete Best telling the story on a late night show. Maybe Carson or Lettermen way before you could look this stuff up on a PC. Now it’s easy to research and I think you can also see Peter Best telling this story on You Tube in an interview . Unbelievable but true ( great vid btw, thank you ). 👍
MONA BEST!!!
Piggot: Scorpio! Of course he was the best
This a no brainer Piggott is way ahead but Dettori has the magnificent 7 which is special and a lot of classics, but there are other great names like Pat Eddery, willy Carson, Kinane, Fallon that won a lot of classics too.
Don't forget Richard Hughes also rode 7 winners. At Windsor only it was not on TV it's never mentioned.
Never be another Lester !
Lester a horse man first and final, Dettori a showman, Lester was more serious. Lester for me......
Dettori against Piggott no comparison as Piggott is second to none he may have lost some races due to error but then it goes without saying you can't win them all
Piggott the maestro.
No contest. Lester is beyond comparison.
Lester piggott pat eddery Steve cauthen Willie Carson I would put frankie 5th
I am biased I would have Willie Carson in front of Steve Cauthen personal choice
Deterring not in same league as Lester. Apart from his incredible record, consider who he was riding against: the great Scoby Breasely; Doug Smith; Ron Hutchinson; Frankie Durr; Bill Rickaby, to mention just a few great jockeys, all of these I would put before or equal to Frankie Dettori, especially Breasely. As for 7/7 racecard, there's a lot of luck involved getting on the specific rides, unless you're saying that Lester wouldn't have won on those rides?
Never heard of Deterring.
There's no case to answer Lester streets ahead
Shy, reluctant to give interviews and with speech impediment, Piggott was never going to be Mr. Popular, in complete contract to Dettori, the ultimate showman. But at the end of the day, whilst Frankie is a great jockey, Lester is the greatest flat jockey ever; nine Derby wins are testament to that.
Lester Piggott Never Needed The Television To Get Famous Like Dettorie Does
Lester became famous simply because he was the worlds greatest jockey . In A Tight Race Finish Between Piggott And Dettorie Or Moore Its Piggott By A Long Way .
@@jim2473 Totally agree theres no comparison
Is this even a debatable question Lester every day of the week,twice on Sunday
Lester then daylight ...Lester could win all over the world , Frankie has 20 rides in Australia for 2 minor wins.
'And it's Piggott by a length from Dettori with Eddery cruising along in third. At the furlong pole it's Piggott and Dettori neck and neck with Eddery putting in a tremendous challenge on the stands side ..... and here comes Carson with a late burst ..... it's Piggott and Dettori with Eddery upsides and Carson joining them ...... fifty yards to go and you can throw a blanket over the quartet ...... and AT THE LINE .......... they've gone past together. It's a four-way photo.'
I agree with everything you said but it would have been more likely that in the commentary it was "Eddery going through a gap that doesn't exist," remember?
Sorry disagree. Ryan Moore can ride in this era with these great pilots. FD can’t see it 🏇🏇🏇
All about luck and hardwork
Master of the pigskin never a dull moment rip lester
There's only 1 jockey in racing I could compare to Pigot in some kind of way and not because he has won anything like Pigot because he hasn't but William Buick knows how to get the best out of horse just like Pigot,I follow Buick on the flat and win quite alot every year.
Buick is nowhere near, sorry
Different whip rules back in Piggott's time
@rob janko Whip rules have been under constant review since TV racing got started. The whip itself has undergone transformation. You have only to count the strokes, see the arm position when delivering the strokes then and now to see how far things have improved. Racing is the only sport where the winner gets a thrashing.
Not true. Dettoru had been riding for over 15 years before they changed.
Best wishes
Ant p
"As different as chalk and cheese" :) Thank you for sharing this.
Nobody is better than Piggot
The Duke of Lester.
Frankie is one of the greatest jockeys of all time, up there easily with all the best, but come on there is only one lester, he defined and revolutionised what is is to be a jockey, a genius in the saddle, simply the greatest
You British folks love to highlight a crook when it's convenient to you all. Do remember that Lester was a tax evader. Guess his brilliance as a Jockey cause him go ride away with his tax return .
Pat Eddery was way better than Lester but his genius is downplayed because he was IRISH. ENOUGH SAID.
What a load of rubbish Frankie is great but now way is he anywhere near Lester. I enjoyed watching and was absolutely stunned at your conclusion
I think it's called a walkover in racing, the pig all day long!
Love frankie great achievement 2 win a whole race card. However theres only one piggott. His 9 Derby wins speaks volumes.Also no one has come close 2 his record of most winners ever ridden. Lester definately the greatest ever jockey.
Gordon Richard rode more and was champion jockey many more times but I'm with you on Lester. When I was a boy I used to imagine I was riding a horse in a race and I was always Lester Piggott.
What a pointless statement. There's only one Frankie Dettori as well. 🤷🏿♂️
Who the hell is Dettori he can't ever get close to a true legend the best on the planet the king of jockies ve ever seen RIP
is this a trick question? lester by a million miles.
Cannot leave out the Shoe....respect to them all.....but there are too many factors to determine the greatest.....oh Shoe rode 2000 more winners
Scobie Breasley. I never saw a jockey who could get so much out of a horse without resorting to the whip.
Piggot is street ahead of Dettori.
come on the pig !!! the greatest ever
Cauthen for his judgement of pace & how he fused the american and british riding styles into something so effective would get my vote overe Piggott, I would have Dettori, Eddery, Swinburn & Murtagh close behind those with very little between em.
Eddery was better than cauthen
@@robertdelacy3434 No, he wasnt.
@@quick46 big time
lester piggott and pat eddery are the two greatest jockeys of all time no one can touch them both both 11 champion titles frankie carson swinburne and stevie caughton follow.
Amazing documentary!!!
No contest. Lester by a zillion miles.
No one can lbeat magnificent 7 of frankie detorri ,,,,,,he has magnificent steady hand to guide horses winning 7x in one day races,,, for me frankie derorri is the best jockey in a modern era,,,,,,missing his antics riding style and flying dismount next year,,,,,,
Know one compares too Leicester.
There just HAD to be a jockey named Lester Piggott.
Lester by miles
The fact that you have even titled this is shit. Piggott the greatest of all time and millions better than Dettori.
No contest Lester all the time
Everyone is talking about about Lester Piggott. Frankie Dettori. Pat Eddery .Steve Caution. Willie Carson .Walter Swinburn .What About Mick Kinane the only jockey who won nearly every Big race in the world .I Rate Mick Kinane the third best jockey behind 1 Lester Piggott 2 Pat Eddery 3 Mick Kinane .Even the Goldiphin wanted him long before Caution or Dettori
Ryan Moore has won all the ‘big’ races around the world, and IMO could ride in the era of the great mentioned...
Yeah great pilot 🏇 Mick not in the same league as Steve ‘ clock in his head ‘ Cauthen thou !!!
Absolutely fantastic
Carson
Continuing in this series. Next week we will be comparing Pele with Carlton Palmer!
First. Thank you so much for posting these videos. Could you, please uplod more major flat meetings full broadcasts? Thank you.
Sure thing!
@@roderigodetriano Thank you so much, sir.
Piggott of course
Well you're try to compare to genius, which I think is impossible. Each of them is so very special that there is no way to compare then. I could not vote for one of them without disrespect the other.
Saw Lester ride at The Curragh, Naas, Phoenix Park, Navan, Leopardstown and most likely a couple I can't remember. The Detttori comparison doesn't really hold water - there was some kind of telepathy going on between Lester and some of the horses he rode. We won't see his like again.
Can’t go without the hoss
Lestor one of my fav jockey
Before Flavian Prat, Lester Piggott was the coolest named jockey.