Lucy Letby’s Student Report Released
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- In this video I'll be taking you through the recently released document discussing Lucy Letby's failed student placement. Her assessor found her to be “cold” and lacking the attributes needed to be a children's nurse. Nicola Lightfoot, a nurse and then deputy ward manager of the children's unit at Countess and Chester Hospital, was Letby's mentor towards the end of her studies in 2011 #LucyLetby
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Another vital piece of the story that only you are telling for us, thankyou ❤
Whoa. Sobering observations during her training...
@@snappyspeak the word to use is nonsense.
@user-ur9es1wl2u yes I agree with you..the whole thing stinks and there are a growing number of public professional and even political and medical views that contradict the prosecution expert witnesses massively.
I admired Nicholas johnson KC too . He had done an amazing job in court, a truely inspiring gentleman.
A true professional of the highest order. A Master of his trade.
What, acting Lucy's interview out with a police officer, like something out of a circus. How on earth the judge allowed that charade is beyond belief.
I worked 10 years in NHS. We were sick of getting degree qualifed nurses who had almost zero experience on wards. Its great being intellectual but that does not equate to nursing skill.
You're completely right. I understand Teaching is obviously not medical, but a person can have exceptional knowledge, with zero qualities to actually teach another person. My worst GP was the one who had the most knowledge. Absolutely no empathy
Could be a problem across the board, same in regulated care work/social support. So many courses/guidance/rules/regulations. yet most staff can't boil a bloody egg or know what goes in the recycling or how to change a lightbulb! But don't worry they're industry compliant!!
I agree worked 35 Yeats in the NHS not with babies but totally agree with you , I remember when they had state enrolled nurses who I'm opinion were kind and competent and capassionet, as some of the state registered ones are also and not forgetting the care assistants who have now mostly taken over the role of what the state enrolled nurses did.
The issue is with how they’re trained now .
We were taught disease management , and as students were on the wards for 8 or 12 weeks ..in the numbers , paid a wage .
See one , do one , teach one was the mantra . They go to uni now for months at a time 🤷♀️
@@class66 I've heard the same said about policing. Apparently a lot are straight out of university now and don't always have the natural instinct or ability for the role.
I have been watching the enquiry, what another eye opener , all those who believe she is innocent, need to enlighten themselves, as even much more disturbing evidence by colleagues has come out , keep up the fantastic work you have put into telling the truth of what you witnessed at court and the transcripts you paid for , there is no doubt or ever has been why she was found guilty, my heart goes out to those babies that were denied a life or were left with life changing injuries,and the unthinkable trauma their parents have and will continue to live with forever. Thank you Jon and ignore all uncalled for remarks, you truly have documented the full truth. I certainly appreciate all your hard work .
Where can you watch the enquiry?
Daily mail do a pod cast every week I think, but if you go on to the enquiry we page you can search and read all the evidence
Unfortunately some of the colleagues interviews are not without issues or flaws such as confirmation bias, lack of accountability for potential instruction to a band 5 nurse. Others appear to not recall crucial details such as who was involved in the rota observation. I immediately began watching this video and realised that it would be concerning if a student nurse passed her first assessment in flying colours 🤔 but of course it's scrutinised as if it's wrong to fail. Gosh the pressure is on.
@@user-ur9es1wl2uWith the number of witnesses they've got, (nearly) everything gets clarified, confirmed and cross-referenced don't worry.
@@user-ur9es1wl2u Confirmation bias is all the rage!
Good God this woman was a walking red flag right from the start. Your continuous pushback on the suggestion that she is innocent is to be applauded as always. Keep fighting the good fight, here's hoping my comments and likes help get your videos to the top of the search results. You deserve it.
That was one bad evaluation but it’s spot on. I wonder if the Cheshire hospital bothered to look at it before they hired Letby. If Cheshire had, maybe they would have taken the complaints the doctors made seriously. Thank you again. You do a great job of reporting this.
I doubt very much they did. They'd do a DBS check and get references.
I disagree. It does raise some concerns for sure with Lucy's issues with communication and retention of material, but also that Lucy was taking these issues on board and working to improve them.
@@Blacksquareable I'm a person who believes she's guilty, but I think your comment is fair in relation to the report which does say she took things on board. The most worrying aspect is emotional coldness and possibly inappropriate behaviour. However, the channel is literally reading out what was said and stated, which let's face it, is more than any other RUclips channel. It's not his subjective opinions. All the NG videos are opinions.
@@Blacksquareable I've seen worse. Mine with a Social work student and yet another person still passed them a year later
@@Blacksquareableexcept she wasn’t consistently. She had very little ability to reflect & show insight. She went over the head of her manager to Eirian Powell to overrule the decision to take her off providing controlled substances. That does not show insight. The only reason Powell liked her was because she was excellent at playing the victim & she would cover shifts. LL was an average nurse at best.
Having been an LPN, ADN and BSN student, I can say this is a very concerning and sub par evaluation. This level of performance may be marginal for a 1st year student but not for a senior nursing student. It would appear the inconsistency of performance probably kept her in the program as she would pull it together enough to pass.
Its a shockingly bad evaluation. They're basically saying she claimed to know more than than senior staff, practiced outside her scope, did not interact with anyone as a team, refused to seek peer advice and blatantly chose not to learn new skills when the opportunity arose.
They should have just said "Lucy is an egotistical bitch" and left it at that.
This report actually gives those post it notes a new meaning. She says she killed them as she was not good enough. Maybe that's exactly what was happening. She was floundering and knew she was bad so deflected to her colleagues other issues to take the focus off her!!
that does make sense.
But why call herself "evil"?
@@Rebecca236 because she knows she is evil perhaps
@@Rebecca236 because she was harming babies in order to hide her own incompetence and move the focus onto other members of staff.
And some people think she is innocent 🙈 so naive!
I feel really sorry for the poor families. It is such a tragedy.
With all those negatives, explain how with just three years experience after graduating plus a short course, L.L. was designated a Senior Nurse by the Hospital to work with the most difficult babies within the Unit.
The pen pushers clearly wanted the kudos & upgrade with her qualifications
She was not senior. She was a qualified nurse with extra training, but remained a basic, entry level band 5. To be honest, if I was still a band 5 after so many years I would consider myself to be doing very badly.
Because they got rid of the staff with 30+ years experience. Lucy was one of the more experienced, even given her short career. That's not how to run a hospital unit.
Email from Alison Timmis, the unit is in chaos, its dangerous and babies will die.
@@julitt4317 do you mind me asking if your a RGN? Still being a band 5 after three years is quite normal in the hospitals I’ve worked in
Her elevation at work fights even the famous “Peter Principle,” because it seems, having never even reached a level of competency to bypass, her incompetence moved forward with her, again and again. The Peter Principle describes how organizational systems create an environment of failure, by elevating workers until they reach their personal highest point at which they are no longer fit or skilled to do their work. At such a point in their career they level off and carry on in their incompetence, having passed the kind of work they were actually good at doing.
Yes! But one supervisor said she was a good nurse because she accepted all overtime. 🤦
Eirian Powell quite robustly defended Letby.
Dr Jiraskova stated she could not believe Letby had done this
Dr Green, who investigated Letby's grievance process found the doctors had behaved so badly he was sickened, and 'it is likely they lied'
How about De Beger saying Letby's emotions and reported thoughts were understandable, normal, and it was a privilege to help her?
The nurse who was surveyed about what she knew about Letby, wrote she did not believe she'd done anything wrong, only to be told suddenly her testimony wasnt needed?
The nurses warned not to be character witness?
Dr Paul McGuigan having the cheif exec of Crewe hospital contact him to say the consultants were out of their depth, behaving as 'ringleaders' and in deep denial about the standard of care (2 ward rounds a WEEK!) given on their ward?
Absolutely, there are many nurses happy to do overtime, have multiple jobs, it doesn't make them a good nurse. But when the management just see that they need "numbers" and someone is fulfilling that need, it takes the pressure off them, so they feel grateful. It's transactional and not in a good way.
I just love this Thirwall inquiry...Her behavior during trial now makes sense...thanx Jon
No it doesn't. You cannot possibly read into how someone behaves in the dock, unless its outright thuggish behaviour and disrespect.
This for me reveals the motive for Letby’s attacks and murders. In her notes she wrote I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough. I think she was enraged with anger towards The Countess of Chester hospital staff because they were highlighting that she was not the brilliant nurse she arrogantly believed herself to be. She was not good enough. Letby failed her first placement there, was told she couldn’t administer controlled drugs anymore due to two major errors with medication, one being potentially life threatening.
I believe Letby is extremely narcissistic which means these criticisms would have wounded her deeply and made her feel extremely inadequate. To any normal person whilst these criticisms would have been difficult to hear you would take them onboard and accept you’re at fault and need additional training for the safety of the babies in your care. Letby on the other hand was angered by the criticisms and I think this was why she attacked babies to get back at hospital staff for failing to acknowledge her as the super star nurse she clearly felt she was. Narcissists have a grandiose facade and anything that contradicts the facade amounts to wounding and narcissistic injury, often resulting in lashing out to hurt others. For me this piece of evidence in the inquiry reveals Letby’s true motives for her reign of terror at the hospital. Just my thoughts and pure speculation.
You’re here from the Reddit sub. :)
I agree with almost all of this analysis. If she doesn't exactly fit the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder or psychopathy, she certainly would score very highly in the assessment. As for motive, who knows, maybe opportunistic, maybe she was presented with a difficult situation she didn't quite have the knowledge or skills to manage and it was easier for her to engineer a collapse (or kill). One thing was clear to me during the trial was that she seemed to take delight in the attention and sympathy shown to her and this was perhaps her supply.
That is a very good explanation for a motive of why she killed those babies now the facts are coming out
What a load of rubbish. Staff were contacting her on her days off, asking for help and what to do.
Due to sacking the nurses with 30+ years service, Lucy was one of the higher level nurses, even with only a few years experience. That's not how a correctly ran unit should be.
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
And this is why degrees in nursing are such a bad idea; we do not weed out those who are not suited to the role. To be this poor at such a late stage in her training is shocking. Also, how on earth did she give a controlled drug without it being countersigned? This policy is nation-wide!
Very worrying that’s for sure.
Is this really to do with it being a degree though? Personally, I don't have one, but it appears to be a simple thing to remember to counter-sign for a drug
My son was given a wrong dose of a controlled drug at a hospital in Manchester. He's fine. But it was 10x the dose. I reported it and the ward was investigated. It was human error and the nurses had become complacent and weren't countersigning/double checking meds they were drawing up properly. I can see that this incident could be human error but Lucy's reported attitude afterwards towards having extra training, I feel, is concerning. She is so arrogant.
It should never have happened in the first place.
@@karaW10 was this at the Manchester Royal Infirmary?
@Daniel-wz4th no. It was quite a few years ago now. It was at Pendulbury childrens hospital which has been shut for ages.
Yes that was me too...petrified of the smell of hospitals, needle phobia, vomit and blood made me nauseous. Not sure why I did nursing. I think some of my reports were far worse. But I loved midwifery, totally different. God only knows how I ever got to qualify.
Mist common words describing me: uninterested, cold slow, poor communication, bla bla.....
So she was not perfect. She was a learner. On preceptorship once qualified. Should be supervised and given appropriate pts to look after....but if CoCH did not do that, they were failing her.
And at what point do you feel Lucy was failing herself?
Thankyou so much john for the updates.
Keep them coming.
Here in the US Nurse Practitioners roll out of university with a degree and not an ounce of hospital bedside nursing experience. They prescribe meds but don’t have the practical experience of hands on caring for folks taking these meds; same with treatments, etc. I think all NP’s should have, at a minimum, a full year of hospital bedside nursing on a med-surg unit before being handed their credentials. They tend to be entitled 20-somethings who have no regard for the 20-30 years of experience of the floor nurse.
This info gives a huge insight into LL's practical ability with regard to her ability on the wards.
be real, is this how you'd want your daughter (if you have one -20yrs old) scrutinised as a student nurse, it's as if LL is a nurse, psychiatrist, entertainer all in one. She's on a children's ward placement with general nurse skills 😂 this channel is like cold comedy sketch with a gullible audience.
@@user-ur9es1wl2u It is you that is gullible. LL's assessment is standard to all nurse-students and the criticisms are pass-fail-improvement. She was in the wrong career.
you are of couse totally ignorant of this case.
@@user-ur9es1wl2u no it’s about real people whose babies have been murdered by Letby, shame on you
@@lindamessam8784 yes real people make 10x mistakes with class a drugs when there's a misuse of drugs act in force 😂 get a grip
The communication issues described are completely typical of autism. Completely typical!!! How did no one spot this before? Doesn't mean she can't be a nurse but perhaps looking at lab work instead of on ward might have been an avenue to explore. And how did the trainer not notice? Teaching staff are meant to be aware of the signs of learning differences!
She hasn’t got autism ffs , I’m a retired nurse who worked with people with autism for over 30 years , Stop using it for an excuse for bad behaviour , It sounds to me like she honestly didn’t care and couldn’t be bothered to put the effort in to study and research , Lucy was lazy , arrogant and was far more concerned about her social life , People describe her as personable , socially confident and outgoing , That’s not consistent with autism , Neither is deliberately harming defenceless babies
@@Blacksquareable letby has never had an autism diagnosis, nor was autism raised in her defence. I’m not sure where you pulled that from based solely on some observed crap communication skills.
Teachers were aware one of them even stopped training with her as she was cold and arrogant
@@tillyt4054exactly
without picking this video apart, Lucy is criticised for asking for clarification - she's a student nurse - relatively new to speciality placements! She's assigned patients without being told their full history/condition then criticised for trying to care for them. Is a handover missing? There is a balance between hounding someone to pieces and understanding their limitations. She said to be cold but then appears eager to try - this eagerness is carried on at the CocH.
LL wasn't on her own when giving the morphine overdose. She had a Senior Nurse with her as all drug administration has to be double checked and the mistake was made by her also.
Yes, this channel is totally biased!!
I disagree , not biased at all, and yes there was 2 nurses but if you read the evidence from the Thirwell enquiry that nurse was devastated by the error not LL Hough her only concern she as told she would not be able administer drugs to more training was given but that was only for a short while.
@@annemagee5714 have you heard of the misuse of drugs act, must not matter these days 🙄
That incident giving a baby 10 x the prescribed dosage of morphine wasn’t an error , It was a trial run , I honestly think all her previous work placements now need to be looked at
Gosh your analysis Jon of this case is turning into an absolute shambles. You clearly greatly admired Nicholas Johnson QC and I feel that this hero worship has led to some significant bias in your analysis. Now you have omitted the fact that another nurse ALSO signed off on this incorrect Morphine dose. WHY are you omitting this extremely significant detail? I feel that you need to add a disclaimer to your supposedly factual commentary clearly stating that you feel that this nurse is GUILTY and this is your position. My position at the moment is that I can no longer rely on this channel to provide an accurate commentary on this case.
@@tillyt4054 She had a senior nurse with her. They both made the mistake to do with the pump and the calculations. This fact has been omitted in the video
@@sheepandtigers Exactly. She was not on her own, she had senior nurse with her. Why no mention of this?
Yes she did have a senior nurse with her who was devastated at the error. LL on the hand brushed it off like no big deal & when restricted from giving controlled substances for a period of time for re-training she went to her bestie Eirian Powell who overturned the decision. That, in my opinion, was unbelievable. LL has no ability to reflect or own an error. It puts on display that LL is an entitled whiny brat who did not like being challenged.
Exactly.letby has obviously been doing this for years before she was found out
But thanks Jon, these transcripts really help give a full picture.
Gosh your analysis Jon of this case is turning into an absolute shambles. You clearly greatly admired Nicholas Johnson QC and I feel that this hero worship has led to some significant bias in your analysis. Now you have omitted the fact that another nurse ALSO signed off on this incorrect Morphine dose. WHY are you omitting this extremely significant detail? I feel that you need to add a disclaimer to your supposedly factual commentary clearly stating that you feel that this nurse is GUILTY and this is your position. My position at the moment is that I can no longer rely on this channel to provide an accurate commentary on this case.
@@sheepandtigers He has said that he felt she was GUILTY. What is your POINT?
@@Rebecca236 No - he's purporting to be running a channel which provides valuable insights to get us towards the truth in the case; but he focuses only on evidence bases which point to guilt without even attempting to address those which point to innocence. He repeats at length prosecution statements and says nothing of the defence retort. It's intellectually barren. I'd love to debate the channel's creator on the subject of the safety of the conviction... he's has nothing to say on the weaknesses adumbrated by highly qualified doctors and statisticians, and yet he is so oddly obsessed with re-affirming what the courts have already decided.
WOW!!! That is SUPER interesting. I have so many thoughts, it’d be an essay at this point. I’ll just say that I about fell out when the morphine overdose was revealed. Thank you for your continued updates. It just doesn’t end!
That is strange, it would have to have been checked by a registered nurse also.
@@annroberts2446Yes! And it also goes back to her either not knowing her meds or doing it on purpose. A nurse should already know or know to check on the parameters of a correct dose. She should’ve had another nurse double check her calculations- especially with babies! It’s disturbing that she didn’t look at what she’d drawn up and think, “Gee… that looks like an awful lot!”. Unless, of course, she meant to do it.
@@AJAXKID123 on further reading, it was the pump settings that were incorrect. The experienced nurse was horrified by her mistake and contemplated resigning. LL just brushed it off and was resistant to have further training. That speaks volumes 😬
@@annroberts2446I see. Thank you for the information. Any nurse would be shaken by such an error or even a near miss. It certainly does say something about Lucy and it’s so chilling.
Based on this, it's highly possible the whole thing is an accident. She was clearly incompetent and put in charge of very delicate patients. I'm shocked by this as I am/was sure she was guilty. This is so bad, I do not now know what to think.
Shocking
It is very interesting to hear some truths about what she was like. She sounds like she was thick and had a poor memory, but then how much of that is real and how much is by design. Could she not remember or could she not be arsed. Even if one thinks she was useless and could have made mistakes, those insulin poisonings could never have been a mistake, that was deliberate sabotage, twice. I read that in the morphine cases another far more senior nurse also signed off the morphine and that nurse almost resigned over it. You have to wonder if letby didn’t like that nurse and if it was another one of those cases where she has set up someone she has a beef with. I also read in one of the transcripts that a a nurse said that she and number of others thought Letby was ‘odd’. I would love to know what it was they found odd about her.
I have been reading the reports from the enquiry when they pop up on my feed and there was one incident where Lucy was reprimanded for an inapropropriate response to a death of a baby. She was also reported to have said to another nurse that she "Couldnt wait to experience her first death". The nurse thought this was also strange but Lucy said it was so she could "get it over with".
Your right a other nurse did sign as well for the drug ,and was clearly devastated about it , where as LL showed no signs of being concerned only that she wouldn't be able to administer drugs to further training, but was soon allowed to continue.
I read that also and about the 40% increase in plugs being dissloged when she was on placement at Liverpool women's hospital. Another red flag.
She’s a monster
Thanks so much, as always, Jon. Wow! Damning for so many parties responsible for governance in so many places.
Child and family increasingly distressed, that sound familiar.
the student nursing community all having counselling after this video.
How on earth was she allowed to continue
Also if she had trouble organising her way out of a paper bag how on earth did she get it together to do all those murders?
Maybe over time she became angry because people kept correcting her. Ya never know.
I think you’re on to something. Her parents constantly coddling her and telling her how “special” she was, then that nasty villain “Reality” shows up….
HOW could she get a Schedule 8 drug so wrong. This class of meds is checked with TWO staff, nurses, doctors, AT THE BEDSIDE against the infants ID label & repeated, out loud. I've never seen this type of serious med error happen when I've worked extensively in newborn care.
Good comment, so like most of these things probably a lot more to it. Something suspcious in this whole record. Whether Lucy was good bad or whatever someting does not seem right in what and how it happened.
@@johnmarsh3596 I can see WHY she got away with it. Really bad management for a start. Protocols were not happening correctly regardless of what Lucy did. And, with that past history of reports I don't know why they would have put her with the most vulnerable of patients. Just crazy.
do you believe she wasn't working in pairs?
@@user-ur9es1wl2u Not sure. best practice is partnering staff up so you cover each others patients for break & that staff member has a more detailed handover on your babies so they'll be able to care for them appropriately. But Lucy was very sly. Like turning off the alarms so no-one else realises a baby is desatting (low O2). The doctors were onto her but the inept management staff enabled her. Sadly the people that hold senior management roles in many hospitals are not necessarily good at their job.
Very interesting 😮!
don't worry, it'll be fine you can get through it 😥
i am wondering if after her training she gravitated towards "specialising" in neo natal care - because they couldn't speak and she didn't actually have to deal with them "inter-personally" - well so to speak. In that student report there was much talk of her inability to deal with situations of complexity in regards to patients anxiety. I am sure she is nowhere near as "bright" as she has been depicted. One last thing - I notice how much her mug shot looks like Joanne dennehy's mugshot - its pretty uncanny.
She has the same look as Joanne dennehy
That note makes a bit of sense now.
She was an inadequate person professionaly. So that's why she killed them. She had to in her mind. Because it's not fair that she's a terrible nurse and everyone is against her. So as a result she murdered them.
I believe her to be guilty, but you have completely misunderstood about the Morphine. Firstly she checked it with a 2nd nurse, which always happens. And which you have totally ignored. It was a mistake setting the rate on the pump. All nurses make errors. Unless we hear more that proves otherwise I think it almost certainly was a mistake.
But was it a mistake knowing what we know now
@@lindamessam8784 I just don't see why she would do it when it was going to be picked up very quickly and it would look bad for her.
The number of red flags in this case is gobsmacking.
Yep, the judge, Evans, Breary, Jayaram, Gibbs, CPS, creating cuckoo land spreadsheets, dodgy door access data, barrister and detective role playing in Court, blood tests not carried out correctly, defence admitting things they couldn't possibly know to be true.
Would you like me to continue?
If this evaluation is to be believed, then the guilt lies more with those who ‘passed’ her through her courses and did not provide the supervision and support she she needed to do a complex, undervalued job properly. If she was not cut out for it, why was she allowed to pursue a career in nursing. Incompetence is not psychopathy.
youve picked on the nonsense i can see, there's a difference between reality and fabrication. Genuine people would know that it's not possible to be so great as a student who is learning, but have the ability to adminster a class A drug by accident 10x times when it is highly controlled due to a drugs misuse act - a student nurse 😂
Incompetence isn't psychopathy, but she did go on to kill numerous babies, which is. I don't feel like it's the fault of the individuals who passed her, there is a culture of not giving constructive feedback if it's negative. The students know if they complain of bullying, that the establishment will side with them, then life is made very difficult for their mentors/educators. I feel like the bar to fail someone is so high, that you would have to document and report excessively to even try. The other issue is, the student nurse is paying the university for this course, it's beneficial for them to keep students on the course, regardless of their suitability.
@@user-ur9es1wl2u was the senior nurse in that case also punished? Two people have to double check for this exact reason. Her school records clearly show she was slow in the head, not a genius mastermind deft enough to kill babies right in front of doctors
No Letby is a murdering Skag who is responsible HERSELF for the murderer of those babies
@@user-ur9es1wl2ushe was a nightmare waiting to happen
Wow, i guess she was seeing how much she could get away with without beingcaught
This newly revealed information on LL makes her ‘imperious’ and ‘haughty’ attitude all the more galling!
Wow. Just wow. "Accidentally" administered 10x the dose of MORPHINE. Hello. The administrators of the hospital are criminally negligent.
The mistake was made by a senior nurse, and is actually common.
It was on a slow release infusion and would likely have occurred transferring micro to milligrams. It's a single decimal place
now i know this is video is a joke, each time a Class A drug is administered - it requires significant paperwork for misuse of drugs act regulations and supervision. It's like preying on the feable minded who dont know what nonsense is. Lost a braincell just for being here.
Thank you ❤
Did people speak up when she was working ? No .. mentioning things now is a bit late in the day 🙄
Yes they did. But were told to stop bullying her.
Oh wow. The things you unearth Jon. Keep it up please, we've missed you and your fantastic reports.
No kidding. And Lucy, the superior nurse who didn't trust the others were sufficiently educated enough to care for the babies. "Oh that was an ""error"". How many times did she say this in her testimony. Incredible to hear this.
There are countless documents, emails, texts, letters on the Thirlwall inquiry website plus transcripts of that day's questioning of all staff involved.
@@judewhitbread2394 doesnt it strike you strange at all that the critic 'supervisor' put poor Lucy in charge of patients without informing her of their full condition/history but then decides to attack her for not being able to answer questions. What's amusing to me is that ive listened to the Thirlwall inquiry and not once have i come across such ridiculous scrutiny until i visited this channel once again, i anticipated how it'd begin, same as the apparent trial videos 🤔
She was an incompetent nurse who couldn’t even get people’s meds right
@@user-ur9es1wl2u What a joke you are. Can't wait for next week when her next appeal fails.
The training as a Nurse if very critical and this type of thing is completely normal comments , she is a student and the placements are brutal.
No!
That sounds like a reasonable report to me, and of course her final report (where she qualified) wasn't presented here. The point of training is to improve the skills needed for a job, and that she obviously eventually did.
Question, what percentage of student nurses complete their entire training without having any criticism of their work? And how many pass every assessment first time?
This was one assessment where I would say it shows she needs to improve some aspects of her work, but presumably (as it was chosen for the enquiry) this was her least positive assessment. I think we should be shown a more representative report of her work, and also one of the most positive reports along with her final assessment.
I wonder what the recently wrongly convicted postmaster's reports look like, and if the post office criticise them in assessments?
@ChrisHill5650 I will tell you now, no nurse has completed training without a single criticism. Even if there is nothing to criticise, the placement educators have to at least start off with average marks. This is so they can have goals for them to work towards. If they were excellent from the beginning, what learning experiences can be presented? I remember I went on placement and the staff were particularly nasty. After my first week, at review, i was accepting of the ok marks for everything. This was apart from "near fail" on appearance. I had hair tied back, clean clothes, ironed every day and this was a uniform so was hard to get wrong. I had my name badge on show, my nails were correct length and no make up. I wore black, closed in shoes. My hair was my natural hair colour and i have no tattoos or piercings. I knew at this point they were just putting low marks for everything for the sake of it. The mark for appearance, i feel, was done to bully, but I was OK to accept the other marks.
@@clairel1971
What you say about training in the NHS is exactly what I thought might be the true when I watched this video.
It's not just that I think the evidence against Letby is weak, I just can't see any convincing evidence that there were any murders of babies during her time working on the unit. That doesn't mean that these deaths were unavoidable, but I think there may be a case to make for corporate manslaghter charges against the local health authority for its failure to manage the unit properly (i.e. swage in the wards, and understaffing etc.).
I feel like that evaluation could almost have been used as part of her defense. It wasn't on purpose, it was incompetence.
No. If you’re going to care for the sickest babies, you had better be competent. She had no defense.
once may be unlucky, twice is incompetence, I think the rest is deliberate. Also, who accidentally injects air on multiple occasions. I think a Munchausen by proxy might be in play here.
This seems like a bit of a red flag
Seems like it is all coming to the surface now,really surprised she was hired by the hospital, I initially thought she was just evil but the more we see she is obviously a psychopath, wouldn't like to be sharing a cell with her
@@johnowen5686 no you would be alright it’s poor defenceless babies that she likes to kill
Whoever wrote this report needs a raise. For them to point it all out BEFORE she even started tells us everything we need to know about her capability. How the hell did she get a job working with sick babies? that's wild to me.
Her ignorance is not an excuse for what happened though. She knew the effect of her actions.
I feel so bad for the babies and poor families. I just couldn't imagine going through such a thing. Her parents must be going through hell, too. They sound like they did everything right but somehow still managed to produce Lucy.
A psychopath was made and parents areNOT to blame
That’s a _very_ detailed report. Is that usual practice for student placements in the uk?
Yes, each placement has the same processes
@@Lightworkers. Wow, that’s a lot of work for the supervisors!
@@Pine_bluffs if you believe that, lord have mercy on future student nurses 😥
@@user-ur9es1wl2uI mean it’s not a bad thing. Just feeling a bit sorry for the nhs nurses. Where I am, you just get your ”passed” or not, maybe a couple pointers on what to improve, and off you go.
@@user-ur9es1wl2urubbish
I honestly think she did want to be a nurse. She just lacked what it takes to become an RN, which probably made her feel quite isolated and angry. I don't have sympathy. What she has done is vile and inexcusable. I don't think she aspired to be a murderer though. I think she wanted to have her glory as a nurse, but when that wasn't happening for her, she took a dark path to self-glorify in. It made her feel something.
In west Australia there are new guidelines when it comes to enrolling doctors and medical practitioners. They have to pass the academic side but they have to pass on bed side manner test. Apparently there were too many smart people getting through and doing the course but they absolutely lacked the communication skills required to be a doctor. Just because they are smart doesn't mean they should be in a profession that requires empathy and flexible ways to speak to people. I'm not sure it applies to nursing too but it definitely makes sense to have to take people who have these skills. I do not know how letby got through. Masking the psychopath I suppose.
As a paramedic student I can’t see how she could possibly give 10x the amount of morphine at all, we use 5mg IV every 5 min
It was the setting on the pump where the mistake was made.
@@annroberts2446on purpose
From the DATIX "..it was noted that the Morphine infusion was running at 1.32 ml/hour rather than the correct amount of 0.13 ml/hour. The dose was prescribed at 5 micrograms/kilogram/hour and was therefore infusing at 10 times the prescribed amount - (50 micrograms/kilogram/hour)."
I tried posting a link in a previous comment to you but the RUclips channel must block comments with links, but I'd recommend taking a look at peds.2011-2526 and searching "patientsafetysolutions April_17_2012_10x_Dose_Errors_in_Pediatrics" it leads to a good overview of tenfold drug errors and some other interesting articles relating to medication errors.
@@annroberts2446 let's not leave out how much the adminstering nurse dished out before instructing LL
Thanks for sharing fyi # means fracture. I’m an OT and it’s medical shorthand.
Surely, and call me old fashioned but don’t nursing staff have to verify with another qualified colleague to double check stuff being injected into patients? Just to make sure?
@@shabbysuzannah3702 Yes, which has been ignored. In fact in paeds & neonatal every single drug is double checked. The other nurse who checked the morphine infusion was devastated and almost resigned.
Yes, and that did happen. Two nurses were involved in this mistake.
she was found guilty without the jury knowing this information, if they knew it would have helped them make that decision much quicker
Absolutely john a car crash waiting to happen ! Very quick to condemn Others, SHE NEEDED TO LOOK AT HERSELF. Over dosage on a baby. OMG SOO INADEQUATE
This could apply to anyone.
It’s got to said: open and shut case.
Thanks Jon. More eye openers.
Gosh your analysis Jon of this case is turning into an absolute shambles. You clearly greatly admired Nicholas Johnson QC and I feel that this hero worship has led to some significant bias in your analysis. Now you have omitted the fact that another nurse ALSO signed off on this incorrect Morphine dose. WHY are you omitting this extremely significant detail? I feel that you need to add a disclaimer to your supposedly factual commentary clearly stating that you feel that this nurse is GUILTY and this is your position. My position at the moment is that I can no longer rely on this channel to provide an accurate commentary on this case.
@@sheepandtigers @sheepandtigers He has said that he felt she was GUILTY. What is your POINT?
@@sheepandtigersyou write a load of bias nonesense this channel portrays the facts thank you John for all your hard work
@@sheepandtigersDon't waste your time here. He displays little to no understanding of the legal system and how things actually work.
Its a poor quality when comments of merit are deleted, or not challenged. He's well and truly fell for Johnson's sales pitch, maybe you're right and there is hero worship going on.
I don't think the morphine overdose was a mistake
Yes but the medication has to be double checked
Definitely not a mistake.
@@Themystergamerr more like a warm up
that morphine dose cannot be an error, you do not make errors like that…………..I believe there are many more children she has killed, attempted to kill and babies she has lamed as a result of her murder attempts, that have not yet been identified at this present time, coming from the Liverpool Women’s Hospital, that is under investigation! I really ‘don’t’ believe that (Child ‘A’) was her ‘first’ Murder at the Countess! I believe it didn’t just ‘come over her’ to start her killing at the countess, I truly do think this all ‘began’ at the LW Hospital and ‘ended’ at the Countess of Chester, more babies than we can imagine….. I feel this case will go on for a very long time as they go through the investigation. It’s Just my own opinion guys.
@@Themystergamerr She had a senior nurse with her double checking. The mistake was made by both of them.
This is a good post, i'd like to know more ie; Criminal Record, School record, Work record e.t.c. Was she of good character?
Struggling to understand people and be empathetic or grasp her limitations in a situation 🤔 Narcissistic and psychopath fits well.
Where have all the Lucy Letby is innocent brigade gone?
dealing with real-life problems, not like this utter nonsense they are feeding you.
@@user-ur9es1wl2ushut up troll
@@karlsinclair9918 rubbish
Moving on to Liam Payne
We're listening to proper neonatal experts. Podcast The other sid3 of Lucy L. While you swallow the lies of Mr Evans. We're also reading relevant articles in the Guardian, Daily Telegraph and Private Eye, while you stick with the nonsense in the Daily Fail.
My understanding was that the spike in deaths happened in 2015 16. Her final placement in 2011 where tbf she was not up to scratch...is it unreasonable to suggest that during 2011 having failed her assessment she subsequently must have demonstrated and acquired the skills under supervision..we have all been students and messed up..that's what students do. I wonder how many student nurses have failed a final placement and subsequently passed..I'm not sure what this proves other than she made some big errors and still became a nurse. Some might say that she conquered her weaknesses and became a professional..or perhaps serious errors were made in assessing letbys ability to practice. 5 years is a long time to continually be a bad nurse.
When she was failed she blamed it on ‘personality clashes’ and requested a different assessor as poor LL felt ‘intimidated’. Just the first in a long line of complaints of being persecuted. The second assessor felt that the initial report should have been upheld. But ultimately signed her off.
@@AriesRising666 Yep, the assessors who try and raise concerns are demonised as bullies. That sounds like Public health, I'm surprised LL wasn't promoted as a result.
So clearly not as competent or qualified/experienced.why the hell was she let loose in that hospital??? Those in charge are at fault
Nhs placements are brutal. Staff can say what they want in their assessment. If they dont like a student they can fail them on anything. The student isnt in any union so dont have the same rights as the employees and the placement educators know this. They regularly bully students to get them to take on any extra work they dont have staff to fulfil. I would take whatever was said in her assessment with a pinch of salt. You can't trust when someone is passed or failed on an NHS placement. Some people get passed because they sit and gossip about love Island on break rather than for their actual competence. NHS is not a particularly friendly or caring organisation to work for. You would think differently given they are meant to care for patients. Most are competing with each other, pompous or out to stab a colleague in the back for self gain.
I mean, I had terrible assessment results on placement, does that mean I am a murderer? The assessment do, by nature, lower the confidence of the student. I wouldn't say that having low confidence means you have a propensity to murder. Do all doctors that do badly on a theory exam or 2 go onto murder patients?
@@clairel1971 why are you making excuses for a baby killer most nhs workers are good people but Letby is a bad rotten apple
You say Lucy was an 'absolute shambles' from the start. And yes, supervisors should have been much more vigilant in monitoring her. However, a new picture seems to be of a nurse who was incompetent and negligent, but that's not the same as criminal.
I'm beginning to wonder if there has been a miscarriage of justice here. 🤔 I certainly think other people are also culpable for what happened. It's a strange case indeed.
I agree. Death just seems to follow me around too. People mysteriously die in my presence constantly and nobody can understand why. It's coincidence after coincidence and I'm sick of it. I also collect mementos from all my victi...uh people who die in my presence and keep them under my bed, but hey, everyone does that right? Anyway, free Lucy!
@Yelluz I didn't say free Lucy. I'm just not certain all the facts have been shown. Harold Shipman killed hundreds before he was exposed. Nobody ever suspected. Different with babies I agree.
Ultimately she murdered infants. Yes the organisation was unresponsive when initial concerns were raised. NHS negligent yes. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that LL is a serial murderer who got off on getting her Dr BF to the ward to watch as she miraculously found infants collapsing and being a heroine.
@@AriesRising666 Or as another commentator put, she may have been attacking babies in the care of other nurses, so to question their competence and take spotlight off her.
@AriesRising666 There seems to be conflicting issues here. A nurse who is substandard judging by that report, and at the same time a criminal mastermind who carried out all these acts without detection, and nobody actually witnessing any of it. Does someone so negligent manage to cover their tracks so well? It's also very extreme behaviour just to gain the attention of a man.
I think there is a possibility that in due course the conviction will be declared unsafe. That's not to say she's innocent, but I'm surprised that so many experts have come forward offering alternative explanations. These are not conspiracy theorists, but people eminent in their respective fields. Even an MP has taken up the case. It baffles me why these people have taken up this case. It just seems one set of experts disagree with another. So what could the outcome be? A retrial, with a new jury of ordinary people having to weigh up the conflicting views of experts? More likely because of the cost and uncertainty of the outcome she'll just be released. That would be a totally unsatisfactory outcome for all involved.
Lucy Letby would either be the victim of the worst miscarriage of justice, or the woman who got away with the most heinous of crimes.
The biggest piece of misinformation on this channel is when the author claims to be unbiased.
😂😂
It's odd how one supervisor basically fails her and another called her the "creme de la creme". Mixed messages.
Exactly. One minute its cold, uncaring and incompetent, the next its over involved, too attached and they're phoning her for advice on her days off!
I guess if they cover both extremes, its all bases covered.
These people really ought to take a step back and listen how stupid it all sounds.
Thank You 🙏🏾
My god the morphine. And this nurse who so harshly judged others.
How the hell did she pass much less get hired for a neonat ? I’m a lab tech guess I’ll go to the nhs and get hired as a brain surgeon seems they don’t care !! Makes you wonder who is responsible for hiring her and passing her ??? 🤔🤔🤔 some moron allowed this !!!
Exactly what I was thinking. I've always felt this. No real monitoring of her either. She was completely left to her own devices. Scary stuff.
Gosh your analysis Jon of this case is turning into an absolute shambles. You clearly greatly admired Nicholas Johnson QC and I feel that this hero worship has led to some significant bias in your analysis. Now you have omitted the fact that another nurse ALSO signed off on this incorrect Morphine dose. WHY are you omitting this extremely significant detail? I feel that you need to add a disclaimer to your supposedly factual commentary clearly stating that you feel that this nurse is GUILTY and this is your position. My position at the moment is that I can no longer rely on this channel to provide an accurate commentary on this case.
So interesting ... more and more red flags right from the start. Also on a completely different subject, I notice in a couple of the photos she seems to have quite a curvature of the spine.
10 time more OMGOODNESS SHE SHOULD NEVER HAVE QUALIFIED SIMPLE AS THAT NO FKING WAY I'M LIVID HEARING THIS AND WORRIED ABOUT OTHER CARE PROFESSIONALS! THIS WAS A FKING ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN
Wow, this report is damning! Thank you Jon. Whatever the outcome eventually is with Lucy Letby I think you have done stellar work on this trial. I still feel completely unconvinced one way or the other. I don't believe we will ever know the truth of what really happened. Maybe she did some dodgy stuff, but the case doesn't appear totally clear cut and when that happens people will not be totally convinced of her guilt, guilty or not.
Podcast The other side of LL.
Listen to a proper neonatal expert, one who has nothing to gain. Look on it as the antidote to the poison that is Dewi Evans.
She shouldn't have qualified with all these problems.
according to this channel's nonsense of reality, there might be a pilot with all these problems flying, a flying doctor onboard with even more problems, and an air stewardess crying.
If this doesn't put to bed the "she could be innocent" brigade, l don't know what will.....
Character assassination and peoples opinion means nothing.
Listen to a proper neonatal expert on the podcast "the other zide ov Lucy L". I have to mis spell it or it gets deleted because they don't want you finding out the truth.
Its rather different to Mr Evans lies.
Do yourself a favour, read articles and reports in the Guardian, Telegraph and Private Eye.
Thanks Jon hope you're well.
Jon, do you know if the ‘doting’ parents visit Letby every day in the slammer? are they ‘allowed’ to visit every single day? because this is being talked about if they are, it’s not much punishment to Letby if she is allowed to see her mummy and daddy like ‘all the time’? I haven’t got a clue on these things and I know you Jon know a lot more about these kind of things than me…. I was just thinking, the parents have done a moonlight flit from Hereford and are now living near ‘Low Newton’ prison so they can visit their ‘multi murdering’ daughter a lot and still be ‘close to her’? Surely , if this is true, aren’t all the prisoners entitled to the same? I can’t get my head around this being allowed to happen, day in day out, surely that would be preferential treatment for Letby, that the other inmates wouldn’t get! can you shed any light on this, I ask because some channels on a few platforms threads are speaking about this issue……. Thanks again Jon as always
Her parents sold their house and moved to be near the prison she was first sent to but then she was moved from there down south and I never heard any more about her parents as to whether they sold up and bought another house near to where she is now.
Just saying drug errors in nursing is very common even ones that are that extreme. A drug like morphine woukd have been double checked. Sounds like it was prescribed wrong and they didnt check. The second checker would have had to have a period of extra input too. Missing meds can also be very common due to miscommunication from drs not updating nurses, maybe drug kardex had a lot of medication prescribed and it can be overwhelming which is easy to miss a med etc. Im not defending lucy but there will be some things are just what any nurse would go through. Everything she has ever done will be seen as an attempt but for medication which was picked up on there would have been another nurse checking that who also clearly got it wrong and wasnt trying to murder babies. However the student reports were extremely interesting and id always wondered about her time as a student
@@bl_174 It wasn't prescribed incorrectly, the pump was set 10 times too fast.
This dude thinks Letby is guilty and possibly she is, but thinks Whomes & Steele are innocent🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣, there’s way more evidence to convict Whomes & Steele than there is Letby🤣, Whomes & Steele are 100% guilty the evidence is completely concrete, why do all their appeals fail at the first jump? Because they are all guilty 100%.
She is an only child! And how will she be perfect straight away. It takes practice
Strange that the hospital hierarchy backed her to the hilt, going against the medical staff's opinions and expertise, despite these huge errors in her past.
So you were all experts at what you do when you started?
I wish your delivery was more appealing and to be frank the monotonous vocal delivery of what is such a monotonous voice in each of your casts needs significant improvement. Your delivery drives me mad listening to you.
There! Room for improvement.
Get it?
Good grief. Wtf can one say.
Narcissistic injury alert 😬
Being apparently so incompetent doesn't seem consistent with her being a calculating killer who was able to work out exactly a fatal dose of insulin or exactly the required volume of air to pump down a naso gastric tube to kill another child ( evidence that she actually did the latter now in major doubt as she was not on the ward when the air was identified by xray.)
She didn't work out a fatal dose of insulin as those babies didn't die. It took her two or three tries to kill some other babies so she was even bad at being a serial killer. But a serial killer she is.
Wow okay. This make sense now. Id originally believed her guilt but eventually then changed my mind to that of, unsure. but with this nope. My opinion is now firmly back at point a. Guilty af.
Thanks for this.
I hope you aren't ever on a jury
@@muscleandhate ... Well lucky for you, jury is formed from the public... so you can hope all you like but it ain't ever gonna change jury selection processes lol. 😂🤣
I’m struggling to understand how she was allowed to function in such an important role.
👍👍
❤
So biased it's disgraceful!
Absolute character bashing. No "evidence" showed any wrongdoing. So much wrong with this case.
Do people really believe she received a fair trial?
Whether she's guilty is another matter,but did she receive a fair trial?
Yes she did. 10 months of complex medical evidence & a jury that took over 100 hours to convict. Also the jury found her not guilty of some of the charges & couldn’t reach a verdict on others. Did you sit through the first trial? Or do you just venerate serial killers? Do you think Charles Manson was hard done by given he did not technically murder anyone?
@@AriesRising666 adminstering a class A drug by accident 10x times, one an overdose, yes totally believable, lots of children high having the most entertaining time ever! Qualify her now! 😂😂
@AriesRising666 How dare you say I venerate serial killers. My question was not if she was guilty but whether she received a fair trial. Was ALL the evidence presented to the jury?
Dewi Evans, Jayaram changed their minds. Highly unlikely she had anything to do with baby c. In my opinion she didn't get a fair trial.
Juries can only decide on evidence presented.
@@AriesRising666Load of rubbish. There's really no such thing as complex evidence, as its the job of the prosecution to spell things out and make it absolutely clear to a layman jury, with no room for reasonable doubt.
There was also no reason to drag things on for 10 months either. That in itself is a deliberate act, which forces juries into going guilty.
And yes I have sat jury on a murder trial, and represented myself in Crown on other matters, so I know a little bit about how the game is played, and not only Lucy, but we've all been played as things stand.
So, not very bright, and no social skills. Bad nurse. Probably got a taste for crises from inadvertent ones in the beginning, then went on to do them on purpose.