I have been reading into psychological approach to solving pathological behavior in myself for about 2 decades now, and this is the first time I heard the discussion around any particular person’s state being a product of a system trying to maintain homeostasis and how systems resist fluctuations. Very insightful, and I’m glad you included that part of the discussion at the end of the more well known topics.
Being a boomer I am in awe of the educational value of expertise at the touch of a keyboard - it's remarkable, and to quote George Elliot - it's never too late to be the person you should have been.
As someone going to school for psychology to become a therapist, the system is so broken on so many levels. I dual majored with sociology because it was important to me to be able to understand, on a deep and profound level, the systemic inequity that creates barriers for ppl to improve their physical, social, economic, and mental well-being. There is no preventative care. Once you're an adult there are barely intervention programs. You need to be at rock bottom to receive help, and once you're no longer at rock bottom you're no longer eligible for services. This framework is fundamentally immoral and unjust
You are exactly right about that. As a disabled student (at 40) I thought it’d be safer to attend school now, but I went into chronic freeze, while no one seems to know how to work with me on that.
To answer your final question, I loved this topic, and would be thrilled to see more like it. As a therapist in training, I found there to be so much of value in this talk, and it was so information-dense, I'll have to listen to it again.
Thanks for this episode it was really helpful! Good to know what to expect and how to be prepared when making the financial and time commitment to go to to a psychologist
While we learn and develop differently, it's a good idea to try on other methods including therapy styles. People who are very cerebral can just run the hamster wheel for years in talk therapy, and those who are very body centered can avoid practical reality in somatic spaces. Being comfortable is not always the best medicine. As to financial issues, if money is a barrier, 12 step programs are free and plentiful and easy to start up. If one group feels limiting or unhealthy there are many more in person and on line. If one is shy about that, start with a buffer like a dog walking group, cards and board games, kids play date groups, coffee, bird watching, art... It's amazing how the more people we meet and get vulnerable with, the more access we acquire to alternative sources and connections that are exactly what we need!
I really enjoyed this in depth look at therapy. In BC, therapy is not regulated and there is a wide variety of providers. I’ve been in an out of therapy for 45 years and still found some of the information and suggestions helpful. I agree, that I need my therapist to like me, or at least feel a rapport with them. I’m a little younger than Rick, and similarly, was a nerdy kid, with a poor connection to my parents. I’m a big fan of much of the material Rick (& Forrest) post, and very appreciative and grateful for his generous contributions to my well being.
Thank you so much for the comprehensive information on therapy options. As a massage therapist, many clients will, rehash the stories AND dive deep into the fantasy of the secondary process. The pain process. Besides saying, hey get some therapy, which will result in my clients NEVER coming back, how does one suggest a deeper level of support treatments?
I feel like I need to listen to this podcast with a notepad to then give to a therapist. I have learned so much! Google popped this up in my podcast player. I did not seek this content out, but I'm glad that it was recommended to me.
That was amazing information. You're so great at explaining so clearly and at a wonderful pace. You guys are absolutely great. I didn't even realize that the point of therapy is to take what you learn from inside the session out into the world. I thought it was just to unload. It makes so much sense, but to hear you say the words helps me to identify why my many years of therapy with different therapists were so different and often ineffective. I didn't know what I was supposed to do after a session. So, I guess I didn't learn much that I could use in a practical way. Holy Crap! I also didn't know the difference between a coach and a therapist and now I do. Thank you so much. Yahoo!
Oh wow, thank you both for sharing this information, and creating this resource. I found it extremely to helpful hear your respectable perspective condensing down this massive field. This video makes it much easier for me to access more.
It's very helpful. As a person who have been seeking help from therapist for years, those advice are very valuable to ask my therapist if we are still on the same page, or is there something we should change, or probably look for the next one.
I am reading Hardwiring Happiness and it has become my bible in many ways. I am currently working through the 21 Days of Good. I got through Safety feeling super pumped and alive, but now that I am at Satisfaction I have hit a wall. I have a hard time conjuring feelings such as pleasure, gladness and just positive emotions. Forrest once said in a previous episode that people can feel quite prudish about feeling happy. Could you all please do a video speaking directly to this or point me to it if it already exists? I don't want to get stuck here.
The most challenging people to work with are indeed the ones who can't simply do what we suggest. They have no point of reference, like a person who is color blind. Telling them to be reasonable and see the red doesn't help them. The other analogy I often use is don't ask a drowning person to take a swimming lesson. No matter how unlike me someone is, we have more in common than not. Depending on whether or not I like another human being is pretty limiting though I do respect knowing one's limitations and referring them on. The line principles before personalities comes to mind. There have been times in my life when very few people liked me for very long, and if they did, it was not a real like but a codependent relationship. A man told me once that happiness does not come to those who pick and choose. Help whomever is on your right and left.
Lol thanks for reminding me to get back into writing my booklet on choosing an equine assisted therapist to make it easier for people to get a good option! 😁 But it's a lovely episode much needed all the time to help people
Also - just to stress the "trainee" thing - it's like having a junior doctor - they've done everything and are keen to get going - and also bring ALL the new thinking as well - so hey - it's a fantastic option for many people :)
Very helpful chat, thank you! May I suggest you interview Dr Ingrid Clayton an experienced therapist on fawning. She also has presence on RUclips. Also Dr Vienna Pharaon author of: the origins of you. Thank you for considering!🙏🏼❤
Yes, I would love that covered too. I had an incredible trauma therapist and then two REALLY bad therapists who didn’t even mention my cPTSD. It made me think they thought it was fake.
There are quite alot of people who are therapists who have done this including, of course, why we must pick the therapist/client therapeutic relationship as that is really the point - modalities are very different and what suits one doesn't suit another but that doesn't mean that it's a bad client or therapist. The podcasts do however also put in place what's actually unethical as they can most certainly be reported and shout be so they are clear and definitive in that as well.
The bigger problem is the student loan/college tuition problem. If therapists weren’t walking out into the field with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, the insurance companies would be a non-issue. But yet, here we are.
Do something on neurofeedback and TMS. The former I know little of... the latter was a definite negative experience for me. No one is really talking about these two forms of therapy.
Sometimes the therapist is just really bad but they still hang on the idea that the client is being defensive. May be true for some clients but not always. In my last theraphy I have learned to believe my suspitions, my clarity of mind and intuition. It is easier to blame the client. And by the way, I am a psychologist myself.
I found it really hard to wait a whole week for my ONE HOUR to talk about and try to fix the problems I've accumulated over a lifetime. Also I found the imbalance of being a lower income person, paying the salary of an educated middle class person, hard to accept.
Would you please consider doing a video with your dad about debilitating emetophobia? And please don't treat it like your run-of-the-mill phobia because it's so much more than that, so much more debilitating than regular phobias. It should actually be called something else IMO because just calling it a phobia doesn't do it justice which is why people often say - including therapists - "Well nobody LIKES vomiting, nobody WANTS to vomit." GRRRRR !!!
Can blending humanistic and CBT approaches to psychotherapy be effective? Is there any research on that? I can see how the medical approach of CBT blended with the deeper concerns of realizing self actualization and self esteem would be beneficial.
Hang on Forrest: I'm glad you addressed cost but you left something out; the greet of the therapist. To want to pay off their student loans too quickly and get rich quite frankly. And I don't know where you came up with a maximum of $150 because I know they're charging $250, even $400 or more in large cities right now as you made this video. And if you calculate the consultation fees, it can be up to $1600 an hour. So the greed is spread all around, it's not just the insurance companies. And these fees make me doubt any therapist is in the business to help anybody get better but more so to have three houses or take an enormous amount of vacations. I simply don't trust therapists any longer and prefer to watch RUclips videos
This is a common misconception driven by focusing on a tiny subset of high-earning clinicians rather than the actual reality for most therapists. Therapist salaries and earnings vary wildly, but the median income for a clinical psychologist living in California is roughly $125,000. www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_research_estimates.htm That's pretty much the ceiling for 98% of clinicians - it's a doctoral degree (six very expensive years of school), the *highest earning* degree a therapist working in clinical practice can obtain, and the most expensive state. Average salaries for clinical psychologists land around $80,000. www.counselingwise.com/how-much-does-a-therapist-make/ Income for non-psychologists - which represent the overwhelming majority of clinicians - is much lower. The median pay for a Marriage and Family Therapist in 2022 was $58,000/year. www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/marriage-and-family-therapists.htm $60k/year is barely paying off your student loans. Buying a house (let alone three) is out of reach for most people.
@@ForrestHanson As a person who works in a grocery I love to observe daily how we spend our money. People will come through with a $200 cart full of processed food and only complain about the cost of fresh produce or cottage cheese. other times I marvel at our ability to pay $500 for a concert ticket, expensive nail treatments and hair styles, but gripe over the cost of health care. I get it. I used to smoke and was a black out drinker and until I found a way to change those things kept me from wanting to die. Sorry for the extreme example. My therapist only costs $20 more per hour than my RMT. What do mechanics and plumbers charge? How about MDs? It was almost $300 to have my tax return done and it took my guy all of 10-15 minutes to do it. Bottom line is: we're all human. Some folks will use their skills and education with right orientation, and some won't. The first far outnumber the last but we tend to blanket the world with one or two disappointing experiences.
One of my favorites and I’ve lived so many episodes from you two! I’d also add that I’ve been seeing a therapist for…many years. When we started he was an intern. He is amazing so just reiterating that you can find a great therapist early in their career.
I have been reading into psychological approach to solving pathological behavior in myself for about 2 decades now, and this is the first time I heard the discussion around any particular person’s state being a product of a system trying to maintain homeostasis and how systems resist fluctuations.
Very insightful, and I’m glad you included that part of the discussion at the end of the more well known topics.
Being a boomer I am in awe of the educational value of expertise at the touch of a keyboard - it's remarkable, and to quote George Elliot - it's never too late to be the person you should have been.
Y😅
Thank you! I gained a lot of knowledge about therapy from this episode. I enjoy listening to both of you.
As someone going to school for psychology to become a therapist, the system is so broken on so many levels.
I dual majored with sociology because it was important to me to be able to understand, on a deep and profound level, the systemic inequity that creates barriers for ppl to improve their physical, social, economic, and mental well-being.
There is no preventative care. Once you're an adult there are barely intervention programs. You need to be at rock bottom to receive help, and once you're no longer at rock bottom you're no longer eligible for services.
This framework is fundamentally immoral and unjust
You are exactly right about that. As a disabled student (at 40) I thought it’d be safer to attend school now, but I went into chronic freeze, while no one seems to know how to work with me on that.
To answer your final question, I loved this topic, and would be thrilled to see more like it. As a therapist in training, I found there to be so much of value in this talk, and it was so information-dense, I'll have to listen to it again.
Thanks for this episode it was really helpful! Good to know what to expect and how to be prepared when making the financial and time commitment to go to to a psychologist
While we learn and develop differently, it's a good idea to try on other methods including therapy styles.
People who are very cerebral can just run the hamster wheel for years in talk therapy, and those who are very body centered can avoid practical reality in somatic spaces. Being comfortable is not always the best medicine.
As to financial issues, if money is a barrier, 12 step programs are free and plentiful and easy to start up. If one group feels limiting or unhealthy there are many more in person and on line.
If one is shy about that, start with a buffer like a dog walking group, cards and board games, kids play date groups, coffee, bird watching, art...
It's amazing how the more people we meet and get vulnerable with, the more access we acquire to alternative sources and connections that are exactly what we need!
You sound like a great life ally to have. 😊
I really enjoyed this in depth look at therapy. In BC, therapy is not regulated and there is a wide variety of providers. I’ve been in an out of therapy for 45 years and still found some of the information and suggestions helpful. I agree, that I need my therapist to like me, or at least feel a rapport with them.
I’m a little younger than Rick, and similarly, was a nerdy kid, with a poor connection to my parents. I’m a big fan of much of the material Rick (& Forrest) post, and very appreciative and grateful for his generous contributions to my well being.
As someone who isn't sure how to "do" therapy (as a client) I find this conversation very valuable. I'm keeping my therapist!
This was extremely helpful. Thank you.
You're a great duo!! I love the information you put out!
Thank you so much for the comprehensive information on therapy options. As a massage therapist, many clients will, rehash the stories AND dive deep into the fantasy of the secondary process. The pain process. Besides saying, hey get some therapy, which will result in my clients NEVER coming back, how does one suggest a deeper level of support treatments?
This was very helpful and informative ... Thank you both.
Signed: Broke AND Broken
I feel like I need to listen to this podcast with a notepad to then give to a therapist. I have learned so much! Google popped this up in my podcast player. I did not seek this content out, but I'm glad that it was recommended to me.
Gotta love those algorithms
That was amazing information. You're so great at explaining so clearly and at a wonderful pace. You guys are absolutely great. I didn't even realize that the point of therapy is to take what you learn from inside the session out into the world. I thought it was just to unload. It makes so much sense, but to hear you say the words helps me to identify why my many years of therapy with different therapists were so different and often ineffective. I didn't know what I was supposed to do after a session. So, I guess I didn't learn much that I could use in a practical way. Holy Crap! I also didn't know the difference between a coach and a therapist and now I do. Thank you so much. Yahoo!
Oh wow, thank you both for sharing this information, and creating this resource. I found it extremely to helpful hear your respectable perspective condensing down this massive field. This video makes it much easier for me to access more.
It's very helpful. As a person who have been seeking help from therapist for years, those advice are very valuable to ask my therapist if we are still on the same page, or is there something we should change, or probably look for the next one.
I am reading Hardwiring Happiness and it has become my bible in many ways. I am currently working through the 21 Days of Good. I got through Safety feeling super pumped and alive, but now that I am at Satisfaction I have hit a wall. I have a hard time conjuring feelings such as pleasure, gladness and just positive emotions. Forrest once said in a previous episode that people can feel quite prudish about feeling happy. Could you all please do a video speaking directly to this or point me to it if it already exists? I don't want to get stuck here.
Yes more process for most common pathologies.
Thanks Forrest, I love these. I am about to train as a therapist so these are very helpful to prepare me for the work
This was fantastic please more content like this
This was very informative and helpful, thank you.
The most challenging people to work with are indeed the ones who can't simply do what we suggest. They have no point of reference, like a person who is color blind. Telling them to be reasonable and see the red doesn't help them.
The other analogy I often use is don't ask a drowning person to take a swimming lesson.
No matter how unlike me someone is, we have more in common than not. Depending on whether or not I like another human being is pretty limiting though I do respect knowing one's limitations and referring them on. The line principles before personalities comes to mind.
There have been times in my life when very few people liked me for very long, and if they did, it was not a real like but a codependent relationship.
A man told me once that happiness does not come to those who pick and choose.
Help whomever is on your right and left.
Lol thanks for reminding me to get back into writing my booklet on choosing an equine assisted therapist to make it easier for people to get a good option! 😁
But it's a lovely episode much needed all the time to help people
Also - just to stress the "trainee" thing - it's like having a junior doctor - they've done everything and are keen to get going - and also bring ALL the new thinking as well - so hey - it's a fantastic option for many people :)
Very helpful chat, thank you!
May I suggest you interview Dr Ingrid Clayton an experienced therapist on fawning. She also has presence on RUclips.
Also Dr Vienna Pharaon author of: the origins of you.
Thank you for considering!🙏🏼❤
Please do an episode on bad therapy.
Please touch on how to report an unethical, abusive therapist.
This!
Yes, I would love that covered too. I had an incredible trauma therapist and then two REALLY bad therapists who didn’t even mention my cPTSD. It made me think they thought it was fake.
There are quite alot of people who are therapists who have done this including, of course, why we must pick the therapist/client therapeutic relationship as that is really the point - modalities are very different and what suits one doesn't suit another but that doesn't mean that it's a bad client or therapist.
The podcasts do however also put in place what's actually unethical as they can most certainly be reported and shout be so they are clear and definitive in that as well.
The bigger problem is the student loan/college tuition problem. If therapists weren’t walking out into the field with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, the insurance companies would be a non-issue. But yet, here we are.
they mentioned that at length but it bears repeating because it’s so important!
@@MifsudZ Ty! I must have missed that. But you are right…def worth a re-mention. It’s the bigger symptom of the bigger problem!
Thanks this was helpful.
I have had some years of psychotherapy with a couple of therapists, but this last one, it took me 2 months to know it was not for me.
Do something on neurofeedback and TMS. The former I know little of... the latter was a definite negative experience for me. No one is really talking about these two forms of therapy.
Thanks!
Love you guys xx
Sometimes the therapist is just really bad but they still hang on the idea that the client is being defensive. May be true for some clients but not always. In my last theraphy I have learned to believe my suspitions, my clarity of mind and intuition. It is easier to blame the client. And by the way, I am a psychologist myself.
What are sources you recommend for finding experienced and good therapists? Better Help is not one of them....
I found it really hard to wait a whole week for my ONE HOUR to talk about and try to fix the problems I've accumulated over a lifetime. Also I found the imbalance of being a lower income person, paying the salary of an educated middle class person, hard to accept.
Would you please consider doing a video with your dad about debilitating emetophobia? And please don't treat it like your run-of-the-mill phobia because it's so much more than that, so much more debilitating than regular phobias. It should actually be called something else IMO because just calling it a phobia doesn't do it justice which is why people often say - including therapists - "Well nobody LIKES vomiting, nobody WANTS to vomit." GRRRRR !!!
Wait, at 1:12, is Forrest Hanson is in training as a psychotherapist now?
Nope, still a civilian 😂
😂😂
Can blending humanistic and CBT approaches to psychotherapy be effective? Is there any research on that? I can see how the medical approach of CBT blended with the deeper concerns of realizing self actualization and self esteem would be beneficial.
Study Buddhism or Krishnamurti
Your answers are there
is it possible in greek subtitles???
👏👏👏
Also is narcissistic treatable and realistically how.
I believe some people are NOT basically good . . .
Hang on Forrest: I'm glad you addressed cost but you left something out; the greet of the therapist. To want to pay off their student loans too quickly and get rich quite frankly. And I don't know where you came up with a maximum of $150 because I know they're charging $250, even $400 or more in large cities right now as you made this video. And if you calculate the consultation fees, it can be up to $1600 an hour. So the greed is spread all around, it's not just the insurance companies. And these fees make me doubt any therapist is in the business to help anybody get better but more so to have three houses or take an enormous amount of vacations. I simply don't trust therapists any longer and prefer to watch RUclips videos
This is a common misconception driven by focusing on a tiny subset of high-earning clinicians rather than the actual reality for most therapists.
Therapist salaries and earnings vary wildly, but the median income for a clinical psychologist living in California is roughly $125,000. www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_research_estimates.htm
That's pretty much the ceiling for 98% of clinicians - it's a doctoral degree (six very expensive years of school), the *highest earning* degree a therapist working in clinical practice can obtain, and the most expensive state. Average salaries for clinical psychologists land around $80,000. www.counselingwise.com/how-much-does-a-therapist-make/
Income for non-psychologists - which represent the overwhelming majority of clinicians - is much lower. The median pay for a Marriage and Family Therapist in 2022 was $58,000/year. www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/marriage-and-family-therapists.htm
$60k/year is barely paying off your student loans. Buying a house (let alone three) is out of reach for most people.
@@ForrestHanson As a person who works in a grocery I love to observe daily how we spend our money. People will come through with a $200 cart full of processed food and only complain about the cost of fresh produce or cottage cheese.
other times I marvel at our ability to pay $500 for a concert ticket, expensive nail treatments and hair styles, but gripe over the cost of health care.
I get it. I used to smoke and was a black out drinker and until I found a way to change those things kept me from wanting to die. Sorry for the extreme example.
My therapist only costs $20 more per hour than my RMT. What do mechanics and plumbers charge? How about MDs? It was almost $300 to have my tax return done and it took my guy all of 10-15 minutes to do it.
Bottom line is: we're all human. Some folks will use their skills and education with right orientation, and some won't.
The first far outnumber the last but we tend to blanket the world with one or two disappointing experiences.
One of my favorites and I’ve lived so many episodes from you two! I’d also add that I’ve been seeing a therapist for…many years. When we started he was an intern. He is amazing so just reiterating that you can find a great therapist early in their career.