Walther Toggle-Locked Semiauto Shotgun (ouch!)
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- / forgottenweapons
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Between the world wars, the Walther company designed and marketed a short recoil, toggle-locked 12 gauge shotgun for sporting use. It was patented by the Walther brothers, but actually manufactured by the Deutsche-Werke consortium, which was organized by the German government to employ German workers and export guns for much-needed foreign hard currency (they also made the Ortgies pistols).
The Walther shotgun was not particularly successful though, with only about 5700 made over about a 10-year period in the 1920s. I suspect the problem was as simple as the excessive recoil generated by the action. As I discovered shooting this example, it kicks substantially more than other comparable semiauto shotguns, and was really quite unpleasant to shoot. I cannot blame potential customers for choosing different guns (like, for example, the Browning Auto-5) that would have been available at the time.
Thanks to H. in Sweden for letting me shoot this quite uncommon shotgun!
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The Virgin Mossberg, has a recoil damper so you don't feel the recoil
The Chad Walter Toggle locked shotgun, has recoil that will break your shoulder (ouch!)
the ouch part really got me
Chad does not say ouch
@@darshfulford his shirt does
…So hip fire only then?
@@colinmasterson666 no, shoulder fire and pretend it doesn't hurt, repress things like a man
About 5000 made? Nah they were standard issue in WW2 according to sledgehammer games
Don't forget the detachable magazines.
Nah in all seriousness, I'm glad they included it. Its such a cool design, even with the artistic license.
Alexander Walker hahaha nice one!
Same with the volk and a prototype svt
christian lee + the “NZ-41”
You must be new to Call of Duty. Typically better guns are used in Multiplayer more than mediocre or bad guns. You could have a full team of people using Type 5 Garands if they wanted to. There's no restrictions on how common or rare they weapons were.
9:42- special guest commentary from Cthulhu.
In his Range at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits sport shooting.
play it on 0.25 speed and watch the back of the gun.
@@planescaped Like a space ship launching from a carrier's catapult.
Every speed has a rather distinct roar/growl to it. Quite remarkable.
*Iä, iä!*
*Adolf Furrer running gasping and wheezing* :"Toggle-lock where? Where? Gimme!"
Fuck yeah
Walther must have really hated thumbs.
So did the M1 Garand.
So does the AG42B Lugerman
@@floo1465 Honestly, the "M1 Thumb" thing is somewhat of a myth, it only happened on guns that had really (and I mean REALLY) been put through their paces. You see it more today because most of these rifles have had hundreds if not thousands of rounds put through them in tough combat conditions.
@@floo1465 The M1 Garand loves thumbs. To eat.
@@Rixoli And mostly it's because ppl are dong it wrong, if you load an M1 properly, you're holding the charging handle with the side of your hand.
that magazine is so freaking cool!
Yeah, that's the most badass shotgun mag I've ever seen. When he popped that thing, the cool factor was raised by levels of magnitude.
Makes two of us
9:42 oh god I never want to hear that sound again.
same.... horrible sound.
Wtf? I must have missed something. Just sounded like a slo mo shot to me. Oh well.
J S Wtf? I must have missed something. It just sounds like demon screams to me.
Seriously, that made my butthole pucker
What's the problem, it's just a Tyrannosaurus Rex shouting its approval of the gun.
And now try Walther toggle locked semi auto in German: Walther Selbstladeflinte mit Kniegelenkverschluss
gesundheit.
Mein lederhosen verbotten ist.
Wow!
Sehr gut! Du bekommst eine 1.
Easy for you to say.
You had me at "toggle-locked."
Wish we could see the system used more, but it's pretty clear why we don't.
When I first read the title the first thing I pictured was a giant toggle lever flipping out of the top like a Luger
Hello there
I know very little about the toggle-lock aside from it being in Lugers and this shotgun. Why is not so common?
This, a Luger, and a Pedersen rifle would be the ultimate lever-action for a 3-gun match.
I could live in a cardboard box afterwards, It'd be totally worth it.
+Clyde Marshall The Winchester Model 1866/1873/1876 lever action rifles are also toggle locked. Joe Ç mentioned the main drawbacks to using a toggle system on a self-loading firearm, but one of the reasons that Winchester moved away from it was the amount of strain that shooting put on relatively small parts. John M. Browning's locking block design for the Winchester 1886/1892/1895 rifles distributed the stress to a larger section of the receiver. Hiram S. Maxim's famous heavy machine gun also used a short-recoil, toggle lock action; Hugo Borchardt and Georg Luger narrowly avoided being sued for patent infringement.
Mechanically, it's very interesting. I love the whole loading procedure. But I can see why toggle locked shotguns never really caught on. Wow. lol
Hi Arsenal, I like your Instagram page
Why didn't they catch on; please-?
"One on the ground for good luck..."
I am TOTALLY stealing that!!!!!! ROTFL
The dadliest of dad jokes.
If you think about the Luger it cycles very quickly, so quick magazine springs have to be extra strong for reliable feeding to keep up with the action. I think the quick action of the toggle is why this shotgun feels like the recoil is heavier, quicker recoil always feels heavier and is harder to deal with. It's a cool shotgun anyway, thanks for bringing it to us.
Would the recoil still feel heavy if it was chambered in 20 Gauge?
@@tikalthewhimsicott2736 It depends on the ammo used, basically if you're shooting the same weight payload (shot) at the same speed (velocity) recoil will be equal no matter what gauge the gun is. So there are some 12 gauge loadings actually lighter recoiling than some of the heavier 20 loadings.
8:45 "That hurts."
9:20 "Let's shoot it some more."
Skip to 0:41 to see a cool lil dog
Josh Callejas forgotten dogo
Josh Callejas just going about his bidness
woof :)
*cool lil dog anus
Adorable. Gun Jesus does not disappoint.
The chad Walther Toggle-Locked Semiauto vs the virgin pump action
krnts I was literally thinking that the moment I saw the Ouch!
The m‐30 drilling ultra Chad
*Laughs in Browning Auto 5*
@@KFCGAMING55 The thad
Lain
The shell tube is really cool
When it fires, it looks like an autoloading artillery piece, cuz it recoils end then another shell goes it. I also think a much shoter barrel would be nice
"(ouch!)" in the title, it's bound to be interesting as heck. :)
This shot gun has some of the most nifty, organized, minimalist settings I've seen out of the videos from Ian! German's really know how to mechanically organize their tools! Amazing!
I understand that you often can't take auction pieces or certain antiques to the range, but please continue giving us some range footage whenever you get the chance. I love to see these weapons in action.
"... With a judicious amount of force" sounds so very smooth.
If I had to guess why the recoil is more than you might expect, the 65mm chamber doesn't fully contain the 67mm shell when it opens, partially blocking the barrel and raising the pressure considerably. You need to use 65mm shells to tame the pressure and subsequent recoil. All of that extra
pressure is pushing a lot of weight back into your shoulder.
I know it seems like a little thing, but that's my guess.
That wouldn't be it unless it was creating higher exit velocities.
@@wallybal1297 Seems to me, if you're creating higher pressures in the breech, you are probably increasing the velocity of the contents of the shell. If you increase the pressure too much, you're libel to increase the velocity of the chamber right into your skull.
I've seen people put 2.75 in shells into antique shotguns with only a 2.5in chamber and they notice...boy howdy. A 2.75in shell will fit in the chamber, but there isn't enough room for the case to fully open to let the shot out.
The right shell for the right chamber for safe shooting.
11:11 did the mag just swing open? Damn that's gotta be real nasty recoil
Looks so to me too. :)
Good catch! And yes.
These guns are, as the Swedes say, "total dildos."
Mag tube
Yep, kinda reminds me of a Colt Walker, which dropped down the loading lever after almost every shot fired
>Walther's Patent
I love toggle locked guns, something about it just resonates with me. I really want this shotgun and that one toggle rifle you showed awhile back that had the action at an angle.
toggle lock also has some crazy full auto.
That is some beautiful woodgrain on that drawer unit behind you...❤️
The shotgun malfunctioned and my browser crashed. Ironic.
Connor English thats not ironic. Just sad.
Itd be ironic if it made your computer work properly
mummola25 obviously a patreon.
He's not one of us poor folk.
Maybe if he paid more he'd unlock the "Proper use of words" perk, and he would know what ironic actually means
Connor English That's coincidental, not ironic.
i do want to say that i love how you do a very good job of muting the gun shots. most channels don't seem to bother, or only lower its sound by a little. otherwise keep it up love you all's videos
Swiftly becoming my favorite RUclips personality! Thank you Ian!
Magazine unlocked under recoil at 11:11. Perhaps why there aren't more shotguns with this loading system.
Such a beautiful shotgun. Love the mag tube/foreend and how it drops down
the bolt release on this gun is so cool! love the sound it makes
Truly Fascinating.
Thank you for showing us such a unique firearm.
Been seein' a lot of ammo hitting the ground lately. A video yesterday or so, an InRange video a day before that. I dig it. It's like up-turning a glass and letting the beverage pour out for one's compatriots.
It's also a rather thin point of contact on your shoulder with no recoil pad, on a lighter gun. All minor inconveniences, but together, they add up.
aw yeah. this is the historic tech video I needed.
that calms the shakes :]
That shell tube/gate system is pretty slick. I'd love to see something similar with pre loaded tubes. Maybe like polymer tube magazines that fall off when it swings open. 🤔😀
it looks like it shoots very nice, and its cool how it seems to use the bolt release as a catch for the shells in the tube to keep them from flying out
Thank you for the slow motion on this. It really explain the action. Would o love to see the tear down, but I understand why it could of not happen.
There is a photograph extant of John Moses Browning with an exposed toggle lock 12 gauge shotgun, possibly a prototype that didn't make it to the production stage.
I believe that was the Browning Auto 5
@@MEleven-wh2kh Um, no. I haven't seen the photo for years, but I didn't get that impression. The one I saw had an exposed Toggle lock system remarkably identical to the Luger mechanism, though definitely beefier. If it was a prototypical action for the BA5, I couldn't say but we know it wasn't put into production. Thanx.
Thank you Ian. Have never heard of a toggle lock shotgun. Very nice.
No complete disassembly? =(
Awesome video on an extra-ordinary gun anyway; thanks for having made it for us! :)
SNOUPS4 its german lol it would be 3 hours to disassemble it
Few years ago I read an article about this shotgun. Author says that dis- and reassembly is extremely complicated three-hand process.
NO!!
NO DISASSEMBLE JOHNNY 5!!
Thank you Ian!
I like that there is an actual shooting demonstration in this video, I wish all videos had it but of course some guns can't be shot due to being old or museum pieces.
Greetings, Ian!
I must say I truly admire your knowledge and thoroughly enjoy your content.
Something unusual that has started happening as I watch both your regular sit-down videos and your firing videos, is that I have grown more and more accustomed with shooting left-handed (I am right handed by birth). I have fired handguns with my left hand before, but handling a rifle, shotgun, or carbine always felt weird if I tried to handle it left handed. However, the last time I went target shooting with my Uncle, I found myself shouldering his Rossi Overland at my left side without even thinking. I was initially confused, until I came to the conclusion that watching your videos is what had subconsciously trained me to grow more comfortable with handling firearms left handed.
All that gob out of the way, keep up the good work!
God bless!
That thudded click on the safety is really satisfying... Just a really pleasant sound, rather than a loud or violent click. Very nice. 7:02
Another thumb smasher. The stocked C96 Broomhandle is another one you have to watch your thumb when shooting (the stocked Naval Lugers also tended to bite, which is why they moved the rear sight on the artillery variant). If I am understanding the discussion that safety only blocks the trigger and does nothing to block the firing pin? If so, best to not ever drop or harshly bump a loaded one.
Shotguns in general are notorious for not having a "drop safe" design. Several modern shotguns are at risk of accidental discharge in case they were bumped hard enough, including when they fall to the ground. This often applies when the safety is on or off.
At 11:10 the recoil actually seems to disengage the magazine catch and pop the handguard/magazine down "out of battery". That would definitely be a reliability concern as it would definitely make it a 'single-shot' shotgun. Such an interesting work of mechanics though, I love seeing all the engineering attempts over the years to address the issue of making a boom haha.
The magazine on this gun is a thing of beauty.
Handled that recoil like a boss
Would love to hear you saying „Spezialstahl“
Thats a good looking gun.
Totally agree! Very sleek.
They still sell commercially available 2 1/2" length 12 gauge shells from Holland and Holland.
Why is this gun so quiet??
Stefan Payne that's just the camera mic equalizing the noise to stop it peaking.
11:00
I feel like that thumbs up might turn into a meme xD
Think again nerd
We already have the blond kid thumbs up meme
that may be one of the most beautiful guns ever.
That magazine mechanism is so COOL! It looks like something you would see in sci-fi.
Cool old school shotgun.
Thanks for the vid sir.
I was hoping the “ouch!” in the title meant he got his thumb stuck in the bolt lol is that schadenfreude? 😊
The recoil goes with the angle of the toggle action, that's wild
Ian looking as stylish as ever, sporting that särmä meriono wool hoodie.
Surprisingly quiet. Quiet but deadly.
12/65 is still easy to find in Austria. The three types most common types of shotgun ammo in general are 12/67, 12/70, and 12/76.
I have a few short chambered double guns. Quick method is to get the right tools for a drill press to trim cases and roll crimp. You can disassemble shorten and reload cheapos even. Works great.
What a strange weapon. That is so odd I love that fact it’s a thing that exists. Definitely a great collector’s item a s a good looking shotgun too at that. I love the wood furniture.
Yeah, the Auto 5 kicks like hell too. You get one whack from the shell going off and another when the barrel-bolt assembly slams to a halt.
I stuck a Kick-eez on mine and it made a world of difference.
9:34 - Good aim hitting the camera with that ejected shell! :-P
First Non-Patreon Post! ALways nice to see these interesting and unusual firearms :D
I dont even know who you are
This was cool. I haven't really that much semi-auto Shotguns I would love it if you showed some more early examples.
I like the way of loading.
that is one of the coolest shotguns ive ever seen
I actually like this shotgun, looks like it was made nicely, and it’s cool how they designed it.
But in the slo Mo shot the recoil looks brutal.
Cool ol' gun! Thanks Ian
I'd love that loading system on a more reasonable style action.
make the tube longer and competition shooters would love it.
Love how the Germany export mark flows and gets bigger with the trigger guard area. They really put some effort into making it appealing to the eye instead of just some block lettering that is stamped in.
The largest market competitor to this "Humpback" design was the Belgium Browning Auto-5 which was vastly superior (and wouldn't eat your thumb if you placed along the tang), and already dearly loved by European hunters.
I wonder if this is the wierd German shotgun that I heard sories about growing up. The story being that my grandfather bought a strange shotgun for pretty much nothing, and the man who sold it just wanted to be rid of the damned thing. He then dislocated his thumb on his first hunt with it so he just stored it away and forgot where.
7:55 - 8:01
Lol, quick thinking there Ian!
Magnificent! Back when Walther quality was impeccable, and before Smith & Wesson got involved in destroying their fine reputation…
Beautiful gun!
I love it when i see Ian wearing a Särmä hoodie.
To me Ian is the white Morgan Freeman
He really is
Or an older AU version of Gordon Freeman
What if Morgan Freeman is the black Ian??
what a beautiful gun
The aprubt stop and high impulse also may cause the cracs in the lower assembly of the gun, which seen quite often, even the gun is that rare
I like that the firing sound was removed
This artillery just after the war to end all wars in dshermany? Oh dear...
A beauty btw
had a trigger guard for this found in a relatives garage! Had no idea it was so rare, I hope to find the rest of it!
That was a seriously cool video and gun!
It seems like some of the excess recoil and muzzle climb may come from the fact the barrel sits so high and misaligned with the shoulder. The slide and Barrel assembly also seem to have a short travel to a sudden stop with a large mass.
Wow, I can tell I’d like to own this just from the sound alone.
I found his reaction to dropping the shell way too funny than I should have.
That thing is a beast
I like toggle lock systems they have always been my favourite systems.
This is the one I have been looking for!!
I had one and it took forever to sell.
Minong Maniac I Meant the Video.
would have loved to see this disassembled
the day without Forgotten weapons, it's a bad day ;)
That really kicked your butt.
I owned (but never shot) one of these for several years. The barrel had a ring bulge about halfway, my guess is someone used 2 3/4” shells and the front of one cut off and travelled up the tube, to be run over by the next shot. Disassembly is ... interesting. The strong recoil spring runs through the buttstock, and is retained by the little button on the top of the grip when the action is opened. The block on the side of the lower receiver can be slid out, releasing the upper to slide forward. The barrel is secured to the receiver by a small setscrew, when removed the barrel unscrews by hand. Breaks down into a very compact package this way for traveling.
I sold mine off a couple years back, these guns do show up on the European e-guns site.
Loved the leaning back thumbs up haha
Mate it's started I'm not getting notifications for your videos I now have to go looking for them.
That's a pretty cool magazine tube
Am I the only one that loves how you lower the tube to load it?