SS-Contract Walther PP and PPK Pistols
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- / forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
Today, courtesy of Tom from Legacy Collectibles, we are taking a look at Walther PP and PPK pistols made specifically for the SS. These guns comprised several special contracts, distinct from general military and commercial production. They were not the only such special contracts, as such arrangements were also made for organizations like railway security and bank guards. Tracing back these specific guns has been done by a group of researchers using the archives preserved by the American and German armed forces.
If you would like more information or authentication of a Walther PP or PPK, Tom is happy to help (free of charge), and can be reached at info@legacy-collectibles.com .
To see more about Legacy, check out their RUclips channel:
/ @legacycollectibles
The specific variations are:
PP Var 1: Non-P suffix slide, 997985 - 981212
PP Var 2: P Under serial, 124774P - 125168P
PP Var 3: External numbered slide, high polish. Crown-N proofs, 114343P - 157923P. Eagle-N proofs, 161757P - 162691P, 193484P - 194201P, 202786P - 204905P
PP Var 4: External numbered slide, military finish, 331xxxP - 333xxxP
PPK Var 1: Muzzle numbered. RZM-marked, 838769 - 841397. Non-RZM, 844936 - 990787, 1001262 - 1002477, 192083K - 192925K
PPK Var 2: K Under serial, 206019K - 234852K
PPK Var 3: External numbered slide, high polish, 242844K - 330358K
PPK Var 4: External numbered slide, military finish, 382985K - 426712K
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704
![VICTOR Denmark Open 2024 | An Se Young (KOR) [1] vs. Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] | SF](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y3QEyCih85s/mqdefault.jpg)
Ian: If you don't collect these, this is some pretty esoteric information and I'm impressed that you're still watching
Me: I watched a 20 minute video on hats
I mean they were pretty cool hats.
I like hearing Ian's voice before I go to sleep after working a 12 hour shift 😅. It's so soothing hearing him talk about guns, history, or anything really.
@@TheDougwoods i can second that :)
Ian's hat video was quite enjoyable. The 'star' of the one of the other channels I watch; TheHistoryGuy, who covers forgotten history, is a hat collector. He especially collects historical military hats, but like Ian also has a few other types as well. And he does a video on the history of a particular hat from time to time. Like Ian he also stays away from politics so it's a rather enjoyable channel. ForgottenWeapons is always the 1st one I go to each day, though.
they were great hats
The Theuermann patent holsters were not meant to lift the gun, but rather the opposite, to drop the holster. The waist belt on SS uniforms (and indeed most clothes at the time) was placed really high, above the belly button. So if you had a pistol holster attached to this belt, you had to move your arm in a really unnatural and unergonomic way to draw your gun, almost moving your hand into your armpit. The Theuermann holster is designed so that when you pop the tab open, the weight of the gun pulls the entire holster down towards your hip and opens the cover flap. As you can see, the belt loops go all the way on the inside of the flap.
Thanks for this information. Very much appreciated.
Isn't the Bundeswehr using/has used those kind of holsters for their P1?
WWII Urban Carry
Absolutely! And the same design was used earlier for the P-38, but as far as I can find, only for police issue.
The Portuguese used the same design in the P1 holsters.
I love the part where he says "838769 through nein nein nein"
Gun Nerds: "Were all of these PPKs issued to the SS?"
Nazi Bureaucracy: "Nein nein nein nein nein nein...K"
Glad u picked up on this as well
Man, those guns are over 70 years old and they still look like they just rolled off the line
B.J. Blazkowicz I would guess that its because these werent used in combat as much as other small arms. Pistols arent really fired that often in combat and soldiers rarely roll in dirt with a pistol like they do with rifles and smgs.
I've read that a LOT of these guns were 'presented', then placed in a desk drawer....and, that not ALL "nazis" goose stepped around Germany shooting people in the head.
@@mcgyver8177 "That'd be a horrid waste of ammunition. We have bayonets for that!"
-Oskar Dirlewanger (paraphrased)
These were in effect issued to SS police units, far behind the front lines
Hey man, I'm sorry for what they did with the newest Wolfenstein games, that's pure shame.
Her on the first date: I like guys who aren’t afraid to show their nerdy side
Me: did you know that there are subtle ways to distinguish Nazi SS issued Walther PPK/PP pistols from their civilian and military counter parts? Typical these can be distinguished by their magazines being serialized, but only if they fall into a certain serial number range. Typical there are two magazines, and some will be followed by a K (under or behind the number) indicating that they were latter production examples.
If she's genuinely impressed, she's a keeper!
@@tenhundredkills legit 50/50 chance.
*leaves because she thinks you are a nazi
@@123apacino Nowadays if you show you know anything about the German ww2 military, you're labeled as a Nazi.
Some American lefties want to ban words like "Panzer" or "Wehrmacht", because "they make Nazis sound cool"...
@@scratchy996 so people would need to say
"My grandpa was ******man in the *********"?
Ian: and I'm impressed that you're still here watching.
Me: Would watch Ian talk about pet rocks for 20min
That video was hilarious.
This design is so cool. I remember being infatuated with these types of guns as a kid, and I blame people like James Bond lol.
I was a James Bond junkie and James always carried a Walther in I think .32.
@@dwightehowell8179 wasn't his PPK a replacement for a Beretta?
@@zachhoward9099 He started off with a Beretta 418, changed to a Beretta M1934, then changed to the PPK.
"7.62mm, delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. The American CIA swear by them". I always liked the way they specified it was the American CIA, because this was 1962 and the CIA was still relatively new.
@@dwightehowell8179 Was it Thunderball where they switch the gun on him and he tries to sneak out the beretta under the PPK box?
I'm not a fluent German speaker but 4:17 made me spit out my coffee all over the screen.
it's always a giggle to read comments about spitting out liquids, at least before you feel the slight panic of the person realizing they spat on an electronic device d:
Oh boy, imagine being an SS officer and getting your own Walther with serial 999,999 on it.
I guess if you were the unlucky guy who had 999,998, you'd yell "NEIN!".
This is information I'm sure my late grandfather would have loved to get. He collected a lot of WWII-era German arms, armor, and papers.
Kinda sad that it was all sold "at cost" when he passed.
Oh my God that's so awful, I'm sorry about your grandfather passing and his collection which he probably spent years assembling, to go for 'at cost' is insane
Well u suck
If I start watching one of your videos, I finish watching it. I like the no nonsense way you deliver the information. It all makes great fodder for debate with my friends and relatives who collect all types of firearms. I think the history buff part of me is what keeps me coming back also.
I feel that. I like to call it knowledge mongering d:
Come on, Ian, don‘t be shy!
It‘s
REICHS
SICHERHEITS
HAUPT
AMT
TELEFONMAST!
Or Department of Homeland Security
schrodingers cat : Imperial (Reichs) Security (Sicherheits) Main/Head (Haupt) Office (Amt).
It's actually a pretty sight how the German of all those military stuff RUclipsrs gets better and better over the years, so I'm no longer afraid of how Ian would pronounce that xD
The Black Baron : Warum müssen die Telefone gemästet werden?
I always find your deep dives into obscure details about equipment related to the SS very interesting. Thanks Ian. Always a pleasure to watch your videos.
"I'm impressed you are still watching"
You can make everything interesting Ian
Besides, you never know when you are going to need to verify WW2 German SS pistols
"If you don't collect these, this is some pretty esoteric information and I'm impressed that you're still watching"... Compared to watching some of Lindybeige's 1+ hour videos this is nothing ;-)
Still Ian makes good content that is easy and entertaining to watch.
i want a gun jesus-lindy crossover episode
@@jacoposilvestri543 If that ends up happening and it becomes a tank-video then folks, grab your snacks and your drinks for we will be here for a while :-)
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Same to you :-)
@@widgren87 would be a good time :)))
@@jacoposilvestri543 Oh yes it would ;-)
Well, you never know what you might find sitting on a shelf at a LGS or pawn shop. Knowledge is never a bad thing to have.
Walther Factory Worker, circa 1944: "Ve are losing dis war, ve need to speed up pistol production!"
Another worker: "I know! Ve shall serialise ze pistols in MORE places!"
*zis ;)
That’s the funniest think I’ve heard all week
*thing.... f’n autocorrect
The second SS Holster is the exact same design like the Bundeswehr P1 holster. I carried this very often on guard.
There has to be so many people digging through grandpa’s stuff looking for a Walther, then listening to Ian real off serial numbers like they are lottery numbers.
I love adding to my esoteric knowledge.
It makes it so I can spout random bullshit at any time for no reason whatsoever.
As I watched this video, I dug out my Dural framed, late war (rough finish) PPK. Hmm ... SS guns with the K-followed serial number are in the range of 426712K ...
Mine is 428xxxK ... damn ... As Maxwell Smart would say, Missed it by Thaaaaaaaat much!
Oh, well, great video as always with a ton of good info on rare varieties of one of my favorite pistols!
Ian, thank you again for once more taking the time to show the true historical value of firearms. As an advocate for the hobby, I am proud to direct people to your work. Especially with highly educated and museum level collectors/ collections.
Ian looks like a baked out 70s hippie. His appearance disguises his true status as a grand master of old firearms!
You are the Bob Ross of gun. Mad respect!
I just bought my first PPK today in Brussels!
Greetings from Belgium
I’m really enjoying the PP/PPK guns. I watch Legacy Collectibles channel too! Keep them coming
Just finished watching this and rushed to check out my late 30's vintage PP. It scored 100% as an SS-ordered PP var 3: 144590 P on the slide, Crown-N proofs, 144590 P / 1 (two lines) on the spine of the non-finger rest magazine, and the magazine font matches the slide font.
Sadly, my late 30's vintage PPK does not have the correct magazine, so lightning didn't strike twice.
Ian, do you know how to say “no” in German? Ian: yes, 4:18
I always watch all your videos to the end. I still find the videos informative. Even if it isn’t something I’m into. Thanks again for all the hard work you put into these videos Ian!
Great Video. I find it a bit interesting thought that you totally failed to mention the books written on the subject. The Red book SS Walther PP/PPK 1939-1944 written by Joachim Gortz & Dieter H. Marschall or the Black book SS Walther PP/PPK Identification & Documents written by Steven Stepan. These wonderful gentlemen spent loads of time on research of the very subject. And some would say that most of the information that we have today is because of the very works that they undertook. Sorry to sound negative but, a small shout out would have been respectful in my opinion.
Ian, this is the seventh time, this week, you have shown Walther PP and PPK, in class!
Dreadful history of these weapons, but as objects, they are beautiful. Really eloquently explained and fascinating info. Thank you for making these videos, so many of us really appreciate your enthusiasm and knowledge.
ਸਤਿ ਸ਼ੀ੍ ਆਕਾਲ ਵੀਰੇ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਦੁਰਲੱਭ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਕ ਹਥਿਆਰਾਂ ਦੀਆ ਵੀਡੀਓ ਲੲੀ ਅਤੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਲਈ ।
For those of us that do collect these guns, this was a great video. Thanks keep up the great work
You definitely went through some serious research, thank you. Also, just got a t-shirt good quality.
Ian, l thank you for providing details on a LOT of firearms. I know that I will never own most of them but it's nice to know about them...just in case. :)
My Great Grandfather came back from Italy after working with Military Intelligence and he brought a Walther PP with him. He said he got it in a POW camp full of Germans and Italians.
Just got a brand new stainless PPK. Such a beautiful gun.
I had a stainless PPK/S- one extra round in the magazine. Very accurate with Winchester ball .380.
In you listen to the background, they're testing out the new sniffing gun.
I went through the comments just to see if anyone else noticed lol
Its pissing me off sniffing is the number 1 thing I hate
Suppressed, with subsonic ammo by the sound of it
You new to the channel? Almost all his videos have the sniffing sound, you'll get used to it eventually lol
It's tape, they are boxing up things at the auction house.
Very interesting an thanks for showing these awesome Walther PP and PPK's , Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
History is always fascinating, thanks for the explanation
Ian, If you did a video detailing 9 mm magazines from 72 to 88 for example, I would still watch. I like your presenting style, The more esoteric the Better.
very informative. glad support allows you to do some travel and acquire this knowledge first hand for forgotten weapons.
best college course on police pistols i ever attended. Thanks Dr. Ian.
"All knowledge is useful for knowledge is Power" Benjamin Franklin.
I don't have any WWII collectible German handguns but enjoyed the video. I even looked up the meaning of the word esoteric after so I learned something today.
"Known serial numbers are 838769 thru nein nein nein nein nein nein."
Sorry, Ian, I didn't know it was such a touchy subject
Being 74 years old and around firearms all my life I got an FFL for Curro and Relics back in 2011 and would buy guns in Guns International from Italy and Germany: I was able to get a Erma Luger in the 9mm short or 380 Auto along with Berettas Model 70s in 380-32-22 models some with target barrels , the Walther models were in 32 and the 380 or 9mm short. I had a friend that had a Walther 22 target pistol that was used in the Olympics back in 1930s towards the end of that Decade but he passed away and wasn’t able to get my hands on it. I was able to shoot on the Rocketdyne pistol team when I was 17-18 years old and was exposed to the guns of those Gentlemen and have aquired Hi Standard Supermatic , Colt Woodsman Match and a Gold Cup Colt 45 Automatic which was fine tuned by the Colt’s Custom Shop before it was sold. Back in the day S&W K-22 and K-38 along with the N frame 45LC and the 45ACP were being made. Growing up in the 60s Sears had guns made for them JCHiggens and Ted Williams were stamped on the gun. Singer sewing machine actually made some 1911 45 Automatic’s during the War.
Brilliant cheers... now will look and see if you have put together the police versions
Great video, interesting stuff. Just getting nightmares of my time in the army and Joe having serialized magazines to track.
I don’t collect these. I only watched the entire video bcos the content was very very well delivered! Great vid again Gun Jesus! ;)
my grandfathers fought in WWII, one in the pacific and one in europe in Patton's third army as a cook and sniper (shapeshooter). while ss-property always gives me the willies, I'm ALWAYS happy to learn something new. you make it fun and interesting, even if I don't like the people that carried the items. I highly doubt I will get into wwii german firearms anytime soon, but if I do, I always know someone (you) that knows a LOT more than I do about the subject...
i think that last holster is desgned to allow for western style quick draw when the holster is open.
i have one for a walther p1 so i guess german police continued to use these holsters.
I didn't collect these before this video. Now that I have some insight I will be on the lookout for them.
As a related aside, I would heartily recommend Philip Kerr's "Berlin Noir" police procedurals with Bernie Gunther, a detective in Kripo (Kriminalpolizei) in the 1930s. I enjoyed the first three books.
I owned an interarms PPKS years ago. I swear it was moody on what ammo it wanted. Felt like the spring came off a tractor trailer and a 17 pound trigger pull. Other than that great looking old gun
that american made one was a piece of shit. turned it back in for the german made, love it .
Really dig the color of the grips
Crazy cool history.
Favorite James bond gun
I'm pretty sure he was more partial to his .25 caliber Beretta until they made him "upgrade" to .32.
@@jayzenitram9621 ... because all the gun-nuts KNOW that you need at least .38 for stopping power. (Morons.)
Is there any record of who these guns contracted by the SS were actually issued to?
Brilliant as usual Ian!
I have a PP model from the Western German Police before switching to the 9mm. Mine is in 32 auto and is my deep stash weapon. Very reliable and accurate.
I don't collect WW2 German Small arms, I ain't even in the arms collecting, never fired a gun in my entire life.
Still don't know why I'm even subbed to your channel, or why I'm watching every video - but these are well made, and well explained.
And now I know a bunch of stuff about rare weapons that I likely won't ever have an occasion to put to use. But it's good content.
That's why I'm staying ^^
I'm not really interested in the collecting side, but I am always interested in the arms race of Collector and Forgers and how the later combats the former. So I found the police versions and seeing how a stamp looks when it is not to the standard of Walther to be very interesting.
Ian: OK you've done well...
Me:*tears
I dont collect german gun, however I like esotheric information very much.
Thank you!
Ian is clearly a wizard. How did he convince me to watch a 16 minute video on serial numbers when I have no interest in German pistols, let alone SS stuff? Yet here I am, at the end of the video thinking "that was really cool."
So knowledge on this walther thing is really amazing...
Thank you , Ian .
To be honest Ian anything you post is generally very interesting.
Please do more videos on SS gear and weapons this was a big help
Well, I don't collect though I wish I could ($$$.) You always make an esoteric subject INTERESTING and that is why I stay to the end.
Ian:*Tries his best to emphasise the details on authentic guns*
Frauds: "Write that down! Write that down!"
Thanks Ian
Congrats Ian! 100k views in 15 minutes
Who else giggled a little when Ian says, "PP(s)"? 🤭
Rated 'R' No, the rest of us are grownups.
Very interesting, thank you Ian!
Hello, I am subscribed to both your channels - Forgotten weapons and Legacy Collectible. I've been watching a lot of videos on Walter pistols recently but haven't found an explanation or missed it, why do some Walter PP and PPK pistols have a 90 degree safety switch position, others only 60 degrees? If there is a video that explains this technical difference, please send me a link. In this video, on 4:15 - 4:35, there's those two type of pistols.
I am buying a war production Walther PP; it's all black and has no finger rest on the magazine, but I plan on getting some nicer grips and mags for it in the future. I am constantly saving up to buy a second Luger (something really fancy) but new items keep popping up and my OCD keeps telling me I need to finish my collection of German guns from the world wars. First it was a P38 and now a PP... there goes the $3000 I would have had for an early Swiss Luger lol. Oh well, can't really complain that there is too much stuff to collect. :)
4:10
Ian: "The number range for this first variation are 838768 through NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN"
#germanactivated
Walther makes premo equipment!
surprisingly only one that you showed had a RZM marking since the SS had everything produced for them ether stamped RZM or had attached RZM paper tags.
@Q Anon EVERYTHING that was produced for the SS had to have a RZM tag or stamp, I've seen belts holsters with the RZM logal pressed into the eater. Smaller items like buttons had paper RZM tags . Every company that produced for the SS had a RZM number assigned to them and appeared on the tags
those guns look like they are in fantastic condition
Here in Norway a friend of mine has an old original 7.92 k98 mauser after his granfather and it has a large SS skulle making on the top of reciver with some other SS runes.
Jeg har arvet en sånn en også :)
I dont collect these pistols.. but if you can some day make a video like this on bulgarian Ar-sf (aks74u) that would be amazing.. because in america the kits we got dont have serial numbers that were like the ones in bulgaria.... we have few that look similar and most that are totally not correct..
Anyways great video thanks love geek info!
I never understood why the Germans felt the need to serialize everything. Lugers were somewhat understandable but why bother with mags?
the best thing I can think of is identifying a 'bad'/ broken magazine from a good one if there are no further indicators to that, but I am not certain that serializing is worth the trouble just for that 🤔
“This is some pretty esoteric weapons”
*proceeds to call them PP pistols*
Great video, big PP.
Wow, having one of these with matching numbers and both mags must be pretty rare…
why the heck doesn't walther make PPK models that look like this anymore.
I love history, so no problem is to watch the whole vid Bro, thx for the vid.
Ian is doing a tremendous public education effort.
Iv been carrying a S&W ppk for almost 10 years and put thousands of rounds through it and have NEVER had an issue. The ppk is a near perfect design and i would never part with it.
Like the video Ian. Love ppk!
Even for FW this is pretty esoteric.
Just had the opportunity to purchase one of these beauty's... not sure if I will.
How nice of him to include all of this information on single video... (Tomorrow: ss-markings of lugers, day after tomorow: ss-markings on mauser rifles, day after that: ss-markings on mg34, day after that: shooting the titan 2, day after that: the ss-markings and me - book review) =P seriuosly speaking nice to see that you didn't make a weeks worth of videos of pp/ppk markings only, to be honest, the bergmans should have been a single long video, much nicer to watch one long video than many short ones even if they come out as a multihour videos...
Seems like it would be possible to forge one of these by finding a non-SS gun in the right serial range and stamping the number in the places it's missing. Would have to be done well to not be obvious, but might be worth the cost.
Well then you'd have to refinish it which would be a giveaway
I was hoping he would say something like " buuuuut if you find a PPK at 12 midnight along cinnabar island a unique shiny PPK with a glitched serial number, now that's esoteric. "