Nice video! In winter, I run unidirectional snow tires, and I have lockers front and rear. But your video reminded me that I didn't have a set of chains in my winter emergency gear. Amazon Prime, proper size chains on the way!!! Chains or lockers? No. Chains AND lockers. Yep.
A tip I have learned about lockers, when you have both front and rear: only use the rear,. When you get stuck engage the front to back out to get unstuck. Turn the front lockers off and pick a new line.
Chains don’t work in deep fluffy snow. Well they do. They will dig you faster to becoming high centered! A big wide tire aired way down stays on top better. And the more clearance you have the better. But if you have a good firm base? Or your vehicle is heavy? The addition of chains is better. Log trucks run chains right? They are never gonna float on top. But a snowcat with tracks is gonna go forever on top. Two extreme ends of the spectrum.
Always bring a shovel , 3 shovels is even better , 1 spade to dig hardpack and under the frame and tires , 1 scoop shovel to remove bulk snow , and a pusher to clear large areas . The spade is the most important .
Most important is ground clearance in that kind of snow. Where there is less powder and ice on the road, lockers do ZIP (they just slip in a synchronised fashion) and chains are all important.
You should rename this video to " Stock 4wds , Lockers VS Chains " I live in BC and snow wheel all the time. All of us are on 40"+ tires running single digit pressures and it's easy driving through 4' of snow. When the temperature warms up, that's when it gets harder.
@@LTVoyager why would I lie about that?? 3’ to 4’ when it’s cold out is pretty easy to drive through. Like I said we are on 40” + tires and we can push snow up past the bumper. If the snow is good it’s not a problem.
@@supersonoma9871 You must have super dry and light snow to drive through snow that is 8” taller than your tires. You would have a hard time with 24” of our Pennsylvania snow.
@@LTVoyager I'm originally from PA (central) and now live in Colorado. It's WAYYY different snow. It stays cold enough in the mountains that the snow literally gets "dry" and powdery....and lots of fun! lol
@@MrBrandonh98 I figured it must be much lighter as you would not drive much of anything through 48” of Pennsylvania snow. Even log skidders have trouble with that much snow.
Chains (in front or all 4)work the best in the refrozen or packed snow as it turns into sheets of ice. Chains can make a crap tire do ok in the snow. T100 I had, 31" tires and no lockers, did great in the snow with all 4 chained up.
Cummins 2500 with camper, chains on front. Deep snow, pulls right through. Would run chains on all four if Brandon didn't raise the price, but on the front if running two
@@highdesertrambler2342 Camper weight helps traction I'm sure. When snowwheeling sometimes (well, 3/4 of the time) i get lazy and just air down. I go until I get stuck, then I have to put chains on to help get unstuck and then get further. Chains are especially good for off camber situations. Start sliding sideways, just stop, put the chains on and she walks right out. I almost always regret not putting chains on when I first start up the trail. Much easier to put them on when the snow isn't so deep.
Nice video. Having done snow recovery in Montana/UT/WA for 30 years we quickly found tall skinny tires fully aired up with chains did the best. You wrote " I find without chains ill dig down with no traction and stop, but with chains ill still dig but the chains will grab that ground and keep me moving. If its deep enough where I am pushing snow and getting high centered you're SOL regardless I think. but overall I have had more success with chains. " Right, never push snow, lowering air just lowers you and gives you a bigger footprint which is harder to dig down the the ground.
I believe this is very dependent on the snow type, whats under the snow, and how deep the snow is. experience is a great asset in the snow thats when you and your equipment need to be squared away. BUT you can go very far aired down and 4 chains on.
I have a 2020 JL Rubicon, and I found the best way to get through stuff like this is to stay home and have a few drinks and wait it out. It's much easier.
As long as one has enough clearance for the tires to eat down to something solid before high centering, used to run bear paws on the rear and canadian style chains on the front and kept a pair of 2link vbar chains in the truck so I could get out of the woods at the end of the day if needed.
Nice vid. I'm headed to Canmore tomorrow for Christmas with the family. Got the chains ready in the F-150 in case. Yanked one guy out of the snow so far today.
Great topic for a video and clearly an issue of never-ending discourse among off-roaders! Seems like we get stuck in the snow no matter what because we play too hard ha ha!
Floatation too ,look at the Iceland and Greenland snow vehicles at least 44s on 14" wide rims at 3 to 5 lbs air 48s on custom modular wheels valve cores ( removed ) leaves 18" plus wide foot print trying to stay on top..
Those rigs are crazy! A buddy of mine has a geo tracker and he’s swears it’s light enough to float a bit even with just 31” tires. If it’s too deep to dig down to traction I think you need to go the other way and try to float. Big tires on a light rig.
I have run air lockers front and rear with 35” tires for decades on my Jeep TJ. There are times when I chain up all 4. It all depends on snow conditions. On rare occasions I have needed to air down to 5 psi to get maximum flotation in rotten snow. One must be very careful not to demount the tire if you don’t have bead lock rims. Fixing a flat really sucks in deep snow. I try to winch to a tree, then use the winch and snatch block hung in the tree to lift the flat wheel into the air to remove and reinflate the tire, or swap on a spare.
Using both together is the way to go. Also on your suv/pickup type snow mobile use chains on the front as well. Everything needs to be working. Up hill and down hill. When we are hauling logs in BC which I do. You go up empty but come down loaded. There are up and down both directions. 3 axles locked up at times and 1,2,3 sets of heavy corked chains. Have fun dont slide off the switchbacks.
@@countryslickerofficial Appreciate that! I will be eventually relocating abut 150 miles south - the drone footage looked very similar to where I'm going. Have a F150, no lockers. Need to re-gear and trying to decide if I want to do both lockers. I think this video really sold the fun-factor of such a decision! (Chains, too. Of course, chains. Of course. *hates chaining up*)
Looks like the chains will provide more bite and eat away at the snow. What’s your emergency plan if you both get stranded out there. Do you have a gps emergency device. Do you have a video on that topic.
You can definitely use chains combo with lockers. For all around i really like duratrac tires but any all terrain will.work. nitto ridge grapplers are my current favorite but are pricey
@@countryslickerofficial big difference between 3 mountain peak rated winter tires and 3 mountain peak rated A/T tires, even all-season tires have a M&S rating.
If you are going with only one set of chains, I would put them on the front. I would always go front first and that was usually all you needed…..worse conditions go both front and rear.
Chains on all wheels, with lockers front & rear. 15 psi on all tires. Had to make an aluminum engine guard with a wedge in front to keep snow from building up into radiator and front grill. I can go through about two feet of snow before it starts to hi center the underneath of my 1986 Isuzu Trooper II. Any more than that, it's time to crank up the snowmobile. More ground clearance would be helpful. As in all trucks, ground clearance is the key !!!!!!
@@countryslickerofficial not overly, the ground under the snow is solid but slick, so I find without chains ill dig down with no traction and stop, but with chains ill still dig but the chains will grab that ground and keep me moving. If its deep enough where I am pushing snow and getting high centered you're SOL regardless I think. but overall I have had more success with chains. I am not sure if youve been to margaret lake or lost knife in winter but youve probably seen people hit those hills at mach chicken to try and make it up. with chains I just crawl up without any issues.
I have a idea, if only they made a ma nine with something like a track and skis fir snow, lol. I keep a set of chains in my truck from October to April. Live in northern Ontario I hunt and been caught a few times out at the hunt camp and get two feet snow over night. Worst condition is if someone’s been on road before then it’s hard or impossible if there’s lots snow. And I’ll add, if you have chains and you think you might need them put them on before you get stuck on. For those who know what I’m talking about, nothing more of a pain in ass then trying to put on chains when stuck.
Lockers or chains? I like lockers and then putting on chains if needed. I once dragged my car trailer up a hill through almost 3 feet of snow that was blown in front of the trailer.
Loved the video. Lockers vs chains, it depends on the conditions. With light fluffy snow, I would go lockers. Wet icy snow I would go chains. I have lockers and carry chains. I have yet to put the chains on. I would not put them on until I got into trouble and ready to head home. The reason I say this is chains will get you into somewhere you should not be and can not get out of. I found it interesting that you put the chains on the rear. I always thought you should put them on the front. More traction on the front than rear. This is why front wheel drive vehicles do better in the snow than rear wheel drive vehicles, all other things being equal, same tires and weight. I also found it strange that you had the chains so snug, the number of straps holding the chains. Hook up the chains tighter on the outside than the inside. This way if you do throw a chain, it goes out and not in and wipe out brake lines. Loose chains, to a point, give you more traction. Of course check the chains after a few blocks to make sure they are not to loose. I say weight is important for a reason. I drained my battery well using a winch. Ended up have to call a 4x4 tow truck to get a jump. He had to chain up front and rear to get to my jeep which had no chains on. Yes, he had mud and snow tires on the tow truck. Long story short, wife got the Jeep started before we got back to it and got a $600.00 taxi ride. Before anyone says it, yes I had the Jeep running while winching, wife stalled it. It was a very old and under rated battery for what I was doing. One final thing. I live in the PNW like you. I know the conditions that you went through. This winter has very interesting but not unusual. They call it Cascade concrete for a reason. Loved you video and all I have to say is be prepared for the conditions. Thank you.
@@iffykidmn8170 The most likely thing that you will wipe out is the brake lines. This is true for both front and rear. I have never had the need for chains on my jeep, therefore they have zero wear. That and most wear happens on bare pavement. Watch ice road truckers. They never use ties on chains. As I said before, have more chain on the outside than inside, this way if you do throw a chain you wipe nothing out. BTW, having chains on the front helps the front climb on top of the snow. Chains on the rear pushes the front down into the snow.
@@TheLittlered1961 flexible front lines that move in and out while turning the steering wheel, rear brake lines a pretty much a fixed position, yes my chains are still new and unused as well but still there if needed.
@@iffykidmn8170 yes, the flexible lines are at risk. The fixed lines are also at risk. Have you ever seen on a semi where the tread separates and raps around the axle? I have. Tell me that chains can not a wipe out the rear brake lines. Once again, this is why I said have more chain on the outside than the inside.
Air up or air down in the snow? I hear in Russia they use thin tires aired up to cut through the snow down to the dirt. Others in America swear to air down on big wide tires. What is your experience?
Had an old 3 / 4 ton 2 wheel drive suburban. Had some old ww2 German tire chains on the back. Was like a big snow mobile ) point the wheels and it would go ) that was 30 yrs ago )))
In my opinion chains do better and they are much cheaper then lockers. but I run front and rear lockers and all 4 tires chained on my Power wagon and Jeep Gladiator Rubicon if it's bad enough. 😬🥶 Throw in a winch and traction boards for good message too lol
On my '05 Tundra Double Cab, it's chains on all fours (stock size tires) for the deep stuff. Ladders on the rear, diamond pattern on the front. Being able to back up by only using your mirrors is a necessary driving skill. Shovels - you bet. Full size square point in the bed.
@@countryslickerofficial Oh! like up by Spillimacheen then? I'd wrongly assumed that was the Fraser river in the background, not the Columbia. My bad. :)
We get some good snow here in NWO. First thing I noticed in your video was the BFGs on the Rubi. Not at all a fan of those tires, lockers or not, useless in snow so chains for that are a must. I run Pitbull Rockers in snow and don’t air down much. Rubi Lockers are useless in snow because of the 4.1 transfer case you can’t get enough wheel spin or speed when needed. The standard 2.72 transfer case is better suited for snow and mud. No surprise overall the Rubi didn’t do that well. I have a Rubi and have spent a lot of time in the snow. Bypassing the system so you can use the lockers in 4Hi is the fix for that. Lockers and chains is the ticket. Tires are also super important.
@@fredeschen3783 yes I have an override so I can run lockers in 4Hi or rear locker in 2wd. But the 4.1 transfer case is just to low for snow and mud to get any real useable wheel speed in 4Lo.
Best to have great aggressive tires, if they can load up with the snow, they can go anywhere without anything else. I've seen people with chains eat their way deep into the snow, And they make the ruts a bit harder for anyone following. Wheeling in 4-8 inches of snow is easy. Come to Oswego Cty, NY and try wheeling in the 2 ft of snow we get at a time when it snows real lake effect snow.
@@countryslickerofficial I'm not there any more, but Blizzacks were the best, but I ran Yokahama Geolanders. Never had a problem if the snow was below the bumper!
Ran a trap line for years, I used 4 chains on Goodyear Ultra 9.00 x16 (36”) on a 3/4 ton with posi, the trick is staying on your exact tire tracks every trip every week
I drive to work through the tug hill plateau in NY east of lake Ontario and I have owned a Jeep Rubicon (with lockers) in addition to a few different Jeep cherokees. My Rubicon spent it's life in the desert of Nevada and was unstoppable but I would not have wanted to drive it in snow.. Wranglers are just too light for snow. When you guys are plowing snow with your front bumper, yea that's deep snow but most of the video is the same snow I have driven 70 miles home from work in with various half ton pickups with no problem. The extra weight makes all the difference although I admit to not climbing hills as steep as you are which could make a difference. I was out of town over 2-3 snow storms (5 days) once and had to plow snow with my bumper getting in my driveway in a Grand Cherokee with a V8 and it made in one pass, wish I could post a pic here lol.
Hard to tell, there is so much more difference between these 2 rigs than the chains or lockers. The Rubicon seems to sit way lower to start with. Then, the KO2s are terrible in snow. Had them on my Suburban for 1 Quebec city's winter. They just don't do well, in any kind of snow conditions. You may have lockers but won't be of great help with the wrong tires. The chains -and the Cherokee build- were clearly at an advantage here.
your video and the comments have been very helpful. thanks i went snow wheeling for the first time and struggled. i have a g80 on the back with 285/75 r16 KO2s but no locker on the front and could not decide should i invest in a locker for the front first or good chains. looks like chains is what i want based on the video and comments
sounds like a good starting point, as we continue to get more experience both seems to be the best answer lol but money definitely plays a factor there
OK....you guys are running close to street pressures....my last snow run up the backside of Mt Lemmon near Tucson AZ with my Tacoma with 35" Patagonias on 17" factory aluminum wheels with 4 psi was the ticket to being the one to push virgin snow.....Eaton elockers front and rear helped too. Now you know the trick the pros use.😉😉😉
I think it all depends on the conditions, but both together might often be best. For traction, I'd like to see how the chains compare to Nokian snow tires. For wheelspin, lockers may be the most stable but I wonder if helical diffs combined with a good off-road traction control system (like Toyota ATRAC) could prevent wheelspin enough for the better steering control to be worth it.
Hard to beat full on snow tires for most conditions and the convenience of use, having said that Blizzaks plus lockers plus chains and a winch for when you want to finally throw in the towel and turn around I always keep a couple of shovels in the rig as well.
Once the snow gets that deep, it's time to forget about wheels and break out the snow-cat. Or better yet since your drone had no trouble following your exploits, I'm thinking you just hop in a Cessna or Piper and fly over that beautiful scenery for a couple of hours and then head home and call it a day.
If you have a hard bottom then skinny tall tires are the way to go. If you have a soft bottom or no bottom, like 4 feet of mud then wide tires are a must. If you have only 1 set of tire chains place them on the front tires of your 4x4. 70% of your braking power and traction are on the front tires due to the weight of the engine and transmission.
Interesting to watch and to read the comments especially from a european perspective. 6-8 inches of snow did i get that right? That would be between 15 and 20cm of snow. Of course it depends on the incline (which is never going to show on video) but here in the alps people have driven and do drive non awd / non 4wd cars in that depth of snow without lockers and chains if the incline isn't too steep. How they do it: with winter tires. If the inclines get too steep or there's ice below the snow, or the snow gets hard packed, chains are used. Haven't tried offroad tires in the snow myself, but any comparisson test i have seen or read with Mud terrain tires vs Winter tires on snow and ice, the agressive offroad tires could not keep up with winter tires. (They do get their names for a areason i guess) Of course there's different kinds of snow composures, but those i encountered in my 2 and a half decades of driving, it helped to keep momentum and avoid wheel slip.
Actually it's been Alberta dry snow for the last little while. The wet stuff is coming tonight...just started 15 minutes ago in Black Creek 20 minutes north of Courtenay
They filmed a commercial for a 4x4 in Colorado and they put chain link fence material down hidden in the snow and drove around like heros. I remember thinking it would be good to carry two strips of chain link to get past tough sections. Floor mats work but will hold water,mud and snow. Carry sand or kitty litter for ice. A come along ratcheting pulley can act like a second winch creating better pull angles and can hold to a tree or rock if you're angling off the trail. Don't go down cause you might not get back up. It's better to be brave going up with a safe way back out.
When it's deep deep run as big of a tire as you can fit and air down as far as you can. I generally roll at 5-8psi and I've been in 12 feet of snow (and yes I'm locked up). Washington State. Chains are great at digging you a gnarly hole. On highway if it's nuts I'll wheel at 15psi and usually don't lock the rear then unless I'm getting after it.
2wd Chevy with the factory gov lok in the rear . With ok (no wild crazy momentum) just descent momentum I get around good in north Maine . Just one axle locked “or power to both wheels when needed” is a world of difference Cool video
A big warning about lockers in snow (and other slippery conditions), when on slippery off chamber trails, being locked can put you down hill quickly. I’ve seen it happen many times.
Just like doing donuts. A vehicle with a locked rear diff will spin much easier than one that is open diff’d. On a slippery/snowy off chamber trail, the open diff actually holds better due to less power to one wheel. The locked diff is more likely to have both tires spin and then slide. I have seen 2 auto locker rigs slip into a ditch and I stayed unlocked and drove right thru. Also, I was breaking trail, locked, and started slipping sideways. I unlocked and stopped sliding. It’s worth playing with. If you start sliding when locked, unlock and give it a try. Granted, locked, you will probably go further so you have to weigh your options. Locked diffs is not the best solution for everything.
@@cjg1482 my first time snow wheeling i had the same thing you describe happen to me, and i could not understand why, but you just explained it. i have a G80 on the back
@@countryslickerofficial if your off camber and then break both rear wheels lose, you have no tires gripping the road and your tail will slide down hill.
Ford has an "e-locker" that can electronically disengaged. So then you wouldn't slid sideways. Look for lockers that can be actuated via vacuum or electronically.
I vote rear locker, Trygg style chains at least on the back, and a little more clearance! From your neighbor 5 miles south of the border, living at 3200 feet!
All seriousness, I used to drive through up to 2' of snow on street tires with my forester. It did better than my lifted blazer on 33x12.5. So just buy an old forester. Lol 😜 If just one or the other, just for snow purposes......chains.
Not a fair test! The Jeep was MUCH lower to the ground, and plowed a bunch of snow! For the conditions you were in, your rig had much better ground clearance. Plus it looks like you know your rig! Bravo to you for your MAD driving skills.
Watching this It's no wonder that I have chains & a switchable locker! In fact, the guys working recovery lone chains to people trying to get up an icy slope
Open diff with chains front and back or chains in rear and cables in front 15-q18 psi. Momentum is your friend . however once your in deep snow we’re your plowing your diffs and front bumper chains are not much help because the snow is pushing your vehicle up off the road.
Think lockers are the best option? Check out this video for a head to head comparison!
ruclips.net/video/6cVqFkV9rTo/видео.htmlsi=L7HNzlrGhqeL60mo
Nice video! In winter, I run unidirectional snow tires, and I have lockers front and rear. But your video reminded me that I didn't have a set of chains in my winter emergency gear. Amazon Prime, proper size chains on the way!!! Chains or lockers? No. Chains AND lockers. Yep.
haha copy that! guess its time for me to lock it up
I concur, chains and lockers and winch
@@countryslickerofficial
Would happen to know what gears are in these two Jeeps?
I have a better idea for off road snow. News flash: they invented snowmobiles and snowcats.
@@rockymntdan1 That you need to carry around on a trailer as soon as you reach the asphalt.
A tip I have learned about lockers, when you have both front and rear: only use the rear,. When you get stuck engage the front to back out to get unstuck. Turn the front lockers off and pick a new line.
never thought of that but that's a sweet tip!
Sounds good, it would make turning easier.
Sounds like you can hear the front differential working as that Rubicon was turning corners. Locked axles don’t like to turn either. Too much binding.
Thats what i do....i drive my jeep in two wheel drive. When i get stuck usually i can get out.
Chains don’t work in deep fluffy snow. Well they do. They will dig you faster to becoming high centered! A big wide tire aired way down stays on top better. And the more clearance you have the better. But if you have a good firm base? Or your vehicle is heavy? The addition of chains is better. Log trucks run chains right? They are never gonna float on top. But a snowcat with tracks is gonna go forever on top. Two extreme ends of the spectrum.
Always bring a shovel , 3 shovels is even better , 1 spade to dig hardpack and under the frame and tires , 1 scoop shovel to remove bulk snow , and a pusher to clear large areas . The spade is the most important .
Great video. The answer is both, plus maxtrax, a winch, and a buddy with a winch.
Chains are for icy roads and hard icy snow. In soft snow all depends on flotation of your tyres.
I was thinking the same thing. Chains work great in a foot of snow. They just burry you faster in deep snow.
Most important is ground clearance in that kind of snow. Where there is less powder and ice on the road, lockers do ZIP (they just slip in a synchronised fashion) and chains are all important.
You should rename this video to " Stock 4wds , Lockers VS Chains " I live in BC and snow wheel all the time. All of us are on 40"+ tires running single digit pressures and it's easy driving through 4' of snow. When the temperature warms up, that's when it gets harder.
4’ of snow. Yea, right.
@@LTVoyager why would
I lie about that?? 3’ to 4’ when it’s cold out is pretty easy to drive through. Like I said we are on 40” + tires and we can push snow up past the bumper. If the snow is good it’s not a problem.
@@supersonoma9871 You must have super dry and light snow to drive through snow that is 8” taller than your tires. You would have a hard time with 24” of our Pennsylvania snow.
@@LTVoyager I'm originally from PA (central) and now live in Colorado. It's WAYYY different snow. It stays cold enough in the mountains that the snow literally gets "dry" and powdery....and lots of fun! lol
@@MrBrandonh98 I figured it must be much lighter as you would not drive much of anything through 48” of Pennsylvania snow. Even log skidders have trouble with that much snow.
Chains (in front or all 4)work the best in the refrozen or packed snow as it turns into sheets of ice. Chains can make a crap tire do ok in the snow. T100 I had, 31" tires and no lockers, did great in the snow with all 4 chained up.
Cummins 2500 with camper, chains on front. Deep snow, pulls right through. Would run chains on all four if Brandon didn't raise the price, but on the front if running two
@@highdesertrambler2342 Camper weight helps traction I'm sure. When snowwheeling sometimes (well, 3/4 of the time) i get lazy and just air down. I go until I get stuck, then I have to put chains on to help get unstuck and then get further. Chains are especially good for off camber situations. Start sliding sideways, just stop, put the chains on and she walks right out. I almost always regret not putting chains on when I first start up the trail. Much easier to put them on when the snow isn't so deep.
I've heard of this working too good as well!
Nice video. Having done snow recovery in Montana/UT/WA for 30 years we quickly found tall skinny tires fully aired up with chains did the best. You wrote " I find without chains ill dig down with no traction and stop, but with chains ill still dig but the chains will grab that ground and keep me moving. If its deep enough where I am pushing snow and getting high centered you're SOL regardless I think. but overall I have had more success with chains. " Right, never push snow, lowering air just lowers you and gives you a bigger footprint which is harder to dig down the the ground.
that makes sense. lots of people reaching out are recommending the kinetic ropes instead of the regular recovery ropes. any input on this?
@@countryslickerofficial I know guys that say they love them and they won't go back to regular straps especially in snow
Bottomless snow disagrees with you.
@@powerstroke01 sigh but we just keep trying
@@countryslickerofficial watch matt's off road recovery, you will learn all you want to know about kinetic rope.
I believe this is very dependent on the snow type, whats under the snow, and how deep the snow is. experience is a great asset in the snow thats when you and your equipment need to be squared away. BUT you can go very far aired down and 4 chains on.
60 years in the bush.Chains any day.
copy that!
I have a 2020 JL Rubicon, and I found the best way to get through stuff like this is to stay home and have a few drinks and wait it out. It's much easier.
haha I do the same, just after pulling cable all day lol
Coming from a guy who logs in Wisconsin, chains are absolutely the way to go in snow.
Absolutely my thought as well, Logging in the PNW and they work just as good in the Mud.
P
I log in montana i second your statement
As long as one has enough clearance for the tires to eat down to something solid before high centering, used to run bear paws on the rear and canadian style chains on the front and kept a pair of 2link vbar chains in the truck so I could get out of the woods at the end of the day if needed.
Nice vid. I'm headed to Canmore tomorrow for Christmas with the family. Got the chains ready in the F-150 in case. Yanked one guy out of the snow so far today.
drive safe my friend! lots of fresh pow out there
BFG AT on Wrangler looks funny considering the climb angle and how deep the snow is. Winter tyres do not fit for?
Another great video G. After watching, I'd say you did better with your chains....so I'll vote chains.
in that situation id agree. with no solid base the chains dug down for traction
Do you think snow tires with lockers would do better than chains in deep powdery snow?Perhaps 10 mm narrower than stock ones.
Great topic for a video and clearly an issue of never-ending discourse among off-roaders! Seems like we get stuck in the snow no matter what because we play too hard ha ha!
right you are! be sure to head over to our latest vid for a watch and get entered in the contest!
Is the draftshaft wobble at 8:47 anything to worry about?
no sir, pretty normal stuff I think
Floatation too ,look at the Iceland and Greenland snow vehicles at least 44s on 14" wide rims at 3 to 5 lbs air 48s on custom modular wheels valve cores ( removed ) leaves 18" plus wide foot print trying to stay on top..
Those rigs are crazy! A buddy of mine has a geo tracker and he’s swears it’s light enough to float a bit even with just 31” tires. If it’s too deep to dig down to traction I think you need to go the other way and try to float. Big tires on a light rig.
I have run air lockers front and rear with 35” tires for decades on my Jeep TJ. There are times when I chain up all 4. It all depends on snow conditions. On rare occasions I have needed to air down to 5 psi to get maximum flotation in rotten snow. One must be very careful not to demount the tire if you don’t have bead lock rims. Fixing a flat really sucks in deep snow. I try to winch to a tree, then use the winch and snatch block hung in the tree to lift the flat wheel into the air to remove and reinflate the tire, or swap on a spare.
copy that! never been that low before but maybe time to give it a try!
What’s happens if you guys get stuck and can’t get out?
Using both together is the way to go. Also on your suv/pickup type snow mobile use chains on the front as well. Everything needs to be working. Up hill and down hill. When we are hauling logs in BC which I do. You go up empty but come down loaded. There are up and down both directions. 3 axles locked up at times and 1,2,3 sets of heavy corked chains. Have fun dont slide off the switchbacks.
I think 4 chains will be the way to go just need to get a few more inches of clearance
Just wondering what the Rubicon Jeep would do with chains and lockers. I don't have one so I am not sure you could even do that.
Can I ask where it was that you were in BC?
this would be out in the Selkirk range off of hwy 93, somewhat near Invermere
@@countryslickerofficial Appreciate that! I will be eventually relocating abut 150 miles south - the drone footage looked very similar to where I'm going. Have a F150, no lockers. Need to re-gear and trying to decide if I want to do both lockers. I think this video really sold the fun-factor of such a decision! (Chains, too. Of course, chains. Of course. *hates chaining up*)
@OldPongGeezer I'm running an f150 now too with lockers. I'm excited to see this year's snow wheeling performa ce
That was a Rubicon, so were they the stock BFG KO2s? Those are supposed to be pretty good in snow, they have the triple peak rating.
They were indeed the ko2s
Looks like the chains will provide more bite and eat away at the snow. What’s your emergency plan if you both get stranded out there. Do you have a gps emergency device. Do you have a video on that topic.
What type of tire do u use when offroading in winter, and do they work well on kighways in the winter? Also, can u use chains with lockers?
You can definitely use chains combo with lockers. For all around i really like duratrac tires but any all terrain will.work. nitto ridge grapplers are my current favorite but are pricey
But r those winter tires?
they are snow rated yes@@mikestrate1468
@@countryslickerofficial big difference between 3 mountain peak rated winter tires and 3 mountain peak rated A/T tires, even all-season tires have a M&S rating.
If you are going with only one set of chains, I would put them on the front. I would always go front first and that was usually all you needed…..worse conditions go both front and rear.
Kinda depends on your drive train. Unless you’re already in 4WD
Weight in the back. Having used sand in a bag for years, I got some wooden artillery ammo crates. Three for deep snow , two for on road traveling.
Chains on all wheels, with lockers front & rear. 15 psi on all tires. Had to make an aluminum engine guard with a wedge in front to keep snow from building up into radiator and front grill. I can go through about two feet of snow before it starts to hi center the underneath of my 1986 Isuzu Trooper II. Any more than that, it's time to crank up the snowmobile. More ground clearance would be helpful. As in all trucks, ground clearance is the key !!!!!!
copy that makes sense!
Do you have all 4 wheel chained up?
Nope just the rear two
rear locker and 4 tire chains are the way to go!
boom! you don't find the chains dig too much?
@@countryslickerofficial not overly, the ground under the snow is solid but slick, so I find without chains ill dig down with no traction and stop, but with chains ill still dig but the chains will grab that ground and keep me moving. If its deep enough where I am pushing snow and getting high centered you're SOL regardless I think. but overall I have had more success with chains. I am not sure if youve been to margaret lake or lost knife in winter but youve probably seen people hit those hills at mach chicken to try and make it up. with chains I just crawl up without any issues.
@@ckli5768 right on man! that makes sense
What part of Canada is this in the USA ?
I have a idea, if only they made a ma nine with something like a track and skis fir snow, lol. I keep a set of chains in my truck from October to April. Live in northern Ontario I hunt and been caught a few times out at the hunt camp and get two feet snow over night. Worst condition is if someone’s been on road before then it’s hard or impossible if there’s lots snow. And I’ll add, if you have chains and you think you might need them put them on before you get stuck on. For those who know what I’m talking about, nothing more of a pain in ass then trying to put on chains when stuck.
definitely a good tip on the chains before you need em, that can save a ton of time
Great video. What's your setup on the zj?
currently just a 4 inch lift shorter with 32s
Awesome drone footage, beautiful area.
thank you!
Lockers or chains? I like lockers and then putting on chains if needed. I once dragged my car trailer up a hill through almost 3 feet of snow that was blown in front of the trailer.
Loved the video. Lockers vs chains, it depends on the conditions. With light fluffy snow, I would go lockers. Wet icy snow I would go chains. I have lockers and carry chains. I have yet to put the chains on. I would not put them on until I got into trouble and ready to head home. The reason I say this is chains will get you into somewhere you should not be and can not get out of.
I found it interesting that you put the chains on the rear. I always thought you should put them on the front. More traction on the front than rear. This is why front wheel drive vehicles do better in the snow than rear wheel drive vehicles, all other things being equal, same tires and weight. I also found it strange that you had the chains so snug, the number of straps holding the chains. Hook up the chains tighter on the outside than the inside. This way if you do throw a chain, it goes out and not in and wipe out brake lines. Loose chains, to a point, give you more traction. Of course check the chains after a few blocks to make sure they are not to loose.
I say weight is important for a reason. I drained my battery well using a winch. Ended up have to call a 4x4 tow truck to get a jump. He had to chain up front and rear to get to my jeep which had no chains on. Yes, he had mud and snow tires on the tow truck. Long story short, wife got the Jeep started before we got back to it and got a $600.00 taxi ride. Before anyone says it, yes I had the Jeep running while winching, wife stalled it. It was a very old and under rated battery for what I was doing.
One final thing. I live in the PNW like you. I know the conditions that you went through. This winter has very interesting but not unusual. They call it Cascade concrete for a reason. Loved you video and all I have to say is be prepared for the conditions. Thank you.
right on man! lots of awesome tips in this and I appreciate the tip too.
more possible things to wipe out on the front end vs the rear, loose chains wear faster than tight chains.
@@iffykidmn8170
The most likely thing that you will wipe out is the brake lines. This is true for both front and rear.
I have never had the need for chains on my jeep, therefore they have zero wear. That and most wear happens on bare pavement.
Watch ice road truckers. They never use ties on chains. As I said before, have more chain on the outside than inside, this way if you do throw a chain you wipe nothing out.
BTW, having chains on the front helps the front climb on top of the snow. Chains on the rear pushes the front down into the snow.
@@TheLittlered1961 flexible front lines that move in and out while turning the steering wheel, rear brake lines a pretty much a fixed position, yes my chains are still new and unused as well but still there if needed.
@@iffykidmn8170 yes, the flexible lines are at risk. The fixed lines are also at risk. Have you ever seen on a semi where the tread separates and raps around the axle? I have. Tell me that chains can not a wipe out the rear brake lines. Once again, this is why I said have more chain on the outside than the inside.
As they said in "Trading Places" Can't we have both?
:) I wish
Chains AND lockers. Period.
8:50 whats going on with your driveshaft?
how do you mean?
ah in the rubicon when you have the lockers engaged you get some pretty big wheel hop
@@countryslickerofficial On your truck. It looks like your drive shaft is flopping around when your pulling the Jeep.
@@The88champion oh not too sure, could just be a funny angle
Air up or air down in the snow? I hear in Russia they use thin tires aired up to cut through the snow down to the dirt. Others in America swear to air down on big wide tires. What is your experience?
Ive since tried with crazy low pressure like 8psi and it seems best that way
Had an old 3 / 4 ton 2 wheel drive suburban. Had some old ww2 German tire chains on the back. Was like a big snow mobile ) point the wheels and it would go ) that was 30 yrs ago )))
Phenomenal drone footage!!! 🏔
good you travelled in pairs..
nice drone work
guess you managed gas well
we tried to anyways! thanks for the feedback!
In my opinion chains do better and they are much cheaper then lockers. but I run front and rear lockers and all 4 tires chained on my Power wagon and Jeep Gladiator Rubicon if it's bad enough. 😬🥶 Throw in a winch and traction boards for good message too lol
those traction boards are supposed to be sweet!
Enjoyed! Lockers vs. Chains🤔🤔, warm cabin and a good fire waiting for spring sounds dryer and better too me.
haha sometimes that's just the ticket
On my '05 Tundra Double Cab, it's chains on all fours (stock size tires) for the deep stuff. Ladders on the rear, diamond pattern on the front. Being able to back up by only using your mirrors is a necessary driving skill. Shovels - you bet. Full size square point in the bed.
I could be wrong, it's hard to tell, but it looks like both vehicles are aired up to max and using AT tires.
Wondering what trail this was - Maybe Davis lake north of DeRoche?
Not quite, they call it jubi I believe?
@@countryslickerofficial Oh! like up by Spillimacheen then? I'd wrongly assumed that was the Fraser river in the background, not the Columbia. My bad. :)
Why did you only chain the rear wheels? You have 4wd
only had 2 chains lol
@@countryslickerofficial sometimes that's how it shakes out. Thanks for the vid.
We get some good snow here in NWO. First thing I noticed in your video was the BFGs on the Rubi. Not at all a fan of those tires, lockers or not, useless in snow so chains for that are a must. I run Pitbull Rockers in snow and don’t air down much. Rubi Lockers are useless in snow because of the 4.1 transfer case you can’t get enough wheel spin or speed when needed. The standard 2.72 transfer case is better suited for snow and mud. No surprise overall the Rubi didn’t do that well. I have a Rubi and have spent a lot of time in the snow. Bypassing the system so you can use the lockers in 4Hi is the fix for that.
Lockers and chains is the ticket. Tires are also super important.
I have a Rubicon too. Wanted to use lockers in hi and also using front locker only can be good in snow for steering and side hills.
@@fredeschen3783 yes I have an override so I can run lockers in 4Hi or rear locker in 2wd. But the 4.1 transfer case is just to low for snow and mud to get any real useable wheel speed in 4Lo.
@@jefftenhave8038 Did you do this with Tazer?
@@dartboardearth I have a SuperChips Trail Cal but yes the Tazzer will do the same thing…
Very beautiful area, thanks for posting.
No problem appreciate you watching!
Best to have great aggressive tires, if they can load up with the snow, they can go anywhere without anything else. I've seen people with chains eat their way deep into the snow, And they make the ruts a bit harder for anyone following. Wheeling in 4-8 inches of snow is easy. Come to Oswego Cty, NY and try wheeling in the 2 ft of snow we get at a time when it snows real lake effect snow.
what sort of tires are you running there
@@countryslickerofficial I'm not there any more, but Blizzacks were the best, but I ran Yokahama Geolanders. Never had a problem if the snow was below the bumper!
Ran a trap line for years, I used 4 chains on Goodyear Ultra 9.00 x16 (36”) on a 3/4 ton with posi, the trick is staying on your exact tire tracks every trip every week
that makes sense. trapping is probably so fun eh
Great video!! My input or comment on the debate would be both chains and lockers all around!!
I drive to work through the tug hill plateau in NY east of lake Ontario and I have owned a Jeep Rubicon (with lockers) in addition to a few different Jeep cherokees. My Rubicon spent it's life in the desert of Nevada and was unstoppable but I would not have wanted to drive it in snow.. Wranglers are just too light for snow. When you guys are plowing snow with your front bumper, yea that's deep snow but most of the video is the same snow I have driven 70 miles home from work in with various half ton pickups with no problem. The extra weight makes all the difference although I admit to not climbing hills as steep as you are which could make a difference. I was out of town over 2-3 snow storms (5 days) once and had to plow snow with my bumper getting in my driveway in a Grand Cherokee with a V8 and it made in one pass, wish I could post a pic here lol.
Couldn't you run both chains and lockers?
Hard to tell, there is so much more difference between these 2 rigs than the chains or lockers. The Rubicon seems to sit way lower to start with. Then, the KO2s are terrible in snow. Had them on my Suburban for 1 Quebec city's winter. They just don't do well, in any kind of snow conditions. You may have lockers but won't be of great help with the wrong tires. The chains -and the Cherokee build- were clearly at an advantage here.
There definitely are a few changes. That said though id say the locker chain combo would be unstoppable. Chains for me only go so far.
your video and the comments have been very helpful. thanks i went snow wheeling for the first time and struggled. i have a g80 on the back with 285/75 r16 KO2s but no locker on the front and could not decide should i invest in a locker for the front first or good chains. looks like chains is what i want based on the video and comments
sounds like a good starting point, as we continue to get more experience both seems to be the best answer lol but money definitely plays a factor there
Nice. I like some of the added Drone views. Good balance.
=thank you, we have been playing with the drone more and more
I used to run both lockers and chains front and back. I still used to get stuck when the snow was deep enough.
OK....you guys are running close to street pressures....my last snow run up the backside of Mt Lemmon near Tucson AZ with my Tacoma with 35" Patagonias on 17" factory aluminum wheels with 4 psi was the ticket to being the one to push virgin snow.....Eaton elockers front and rear helped too. Now you know the trick the pros use.😉😉😉
yessir! we ran 10psi on the last trip which seemed to help huge. next big fresh snow day its down to 6 I think.
I think it all depends on the conditions, but both together might often be best. For traction, I'd like to see how the chains compare to Nokian snow tires. For wheelspin, lockers may be the most stable but I wonder if helical diffs combined with a good off-road traction control system (like Toyota ATRAC) could prevent wheelspin enough for the better steering control to be worth it.
Hard to beat full on snow tires for most conditions and the convenience of use, having said that Blizzaks plus lockers plus chains and a winch for when you want to finally throw in the towel and turn around I always keep a couple of shovels in the rig as well.
Once the snow gets that deep, it's time to forget about wheels and break out the snow-cat. Or better yet since your drone had no trouble following your exploits, I'm thinking you just hop in a Cessna or Piper and fly over that beautiful scenery for a couple of hours and then head home and call it a day.
I mean I find drones and jeeps more readily available then planes but ill def keep my eyes open!
Next---Rubicon Jeep with snow tracks. LOL
haha that ill be the day!
really cool drone footage! Chains AND lockers
Subscribed, greetings from Northern Ontario.
thanks for the support! be sure to check out our contest rules for our subscriber giveaway happening in February!
If you have a hard bottom then skinny tall tires are the way to go. If you have a soft bottom or no bottom, like 4 feet of mud then wide tires are a must. If you have only 1 set of tire chains place them on the front tires of your 4x4. 70% of your braking power and traction are on the front tires due to the weight of the engine and transmission.
If you have chains, add lockers.
If you have lockers, add chains
How much tire pressure?
about 14 psi
Interesting to watch and to read the comments especially from a european perspective. 6-8 inches of snow did i get that right? That would be between 15 and 20cm of snow. Of course it depends on the incline (which is never going to show on video) but here in the alps people have driven and do drive non awd / non 4wd cars in that depth of snow without lockers and chains if the incline isn't too steep.
How they do it: with winter tires. If the inclines get too steep or there's ice below the snow, or the snow gets hard packed, chains are used.
Haven't tried offroad tires in the snow myself, but any comparisson test i have seen or read with Mud terrain tires vs Winter tires on snow and ice, the agressive offroad tires could not keep up with winter tires. (They do get their names for a areason i guess)
Of course there's different kinds of snow composures, but those i encountered in my 2 and a half decades of driving, it helped to keep momentum and avoid wheel slip.
makes sense!
Both, plus lower tire pressure seem to be the winning ticket for me. 👍 Stay safe and be prepared.
copy that! we are as prepared as we can be thats for sure.
Also carry a kitchen / chef's blow torch with you in case the valve step freezes open or closed.
Why not chain up all 4 tires?
Looks like fun. We’ve even got snow out here on Vancouver island 🏝 Happy trails.
Right on! must be super wet snow out there in van
Actually it's been Alberta dry snow for the last little while. The wet stuff is coming tonight...just started 15 minutes ago in Black Creek 20 minutes north of Courtenay
Man that was beautiful.
@@OldPongGeezer appreciate that!
I think I seen 1 Lil edit of your chains. Had no idea it was even a comparison video
We appreciate the feedback!
Lockers all the way .. but not going to lie I am fully locked but I am getting chains for the rear so I can tow u easyer around Griff lol
haha copy that!
They filmed a commercial for a 4x4 in Colorado and they put chain link fence material down hidden in the snow and drove around like heros.
I remember thinking it would be good to carry two strips of chain link to get past tough sections.
Floor mats work but will hold water,mud and snow.
Carry sand or kitty litter for ice.
A come along ratcheting pulley can act like a second winch creating better pull angles and can hold to a tree or rock if you're angling off the trail.
Don't go down cause you might not get back up. It's better to be brave going up with a safe way back out.
When it's deep deep run as big of a tire as you can fit and air down as far as you can. I generally roll at 5-8psi and I've been in 12 feet of snow (and yes I'm locked up). Washington State. Chains are great at digging you a gnarly hole. On highway if it's nuts I'll wheel at 15psi and usually don't lock the rear then unless I'm getting after it.
that seems to be the general consensus is the huge tires for max flotation
Why is the snow so "treacherous"? Did it betray you to an enemy?
Lol.
Chains would have been better on the front axel?
I think in general yes, we don't have the clearance though on this truck
2wd Chevy with the factory gov lok in the rear . With ok (no wild crazy momentum) just descent momentum I get around good in north Maine . Just one axle locked “or power to both wheels when needed” is a world of difference
Cool video
Having only a 2 wheel drive truck growing up chain is thy only why to go for snow/mud traveling.
A big warning about lockers in snow (and other slippery conditions), when on slippery off chamber trails, being locked can put you down hill quickly. I’ve seen it happen many times.
what causes this?
Just like doing donuts. A vehicle with a locked rear diff will spin much easier than one that is open diff’d. On a slippery/snowy off chamber trail, the open diff actually holds better due to less power to one wheel. The locked diff is more likely to have both tires spin and then slide. I have seen 2 auto locker rigs slip into a ditch and I stayed unlocked and drove right thru. Also, I was breaking trail, locked, and started slipping sideways. I unlocked and stopped sliding. It’s worth playing with. If you start sliding when locked, unlock and give it a try. Granted, locked, you will probably go further so you have to weigh your options. Locked diffs is not the best solution for everything.
@@cjg1482 my first time snow wheeling i had the same thing you describe happen to me, and i could not understand why, but you just explained it. i have a G80 on the back
@@countryslickerofficial if your off camber and then break both rear wheels lose, you have no tires gripping the road and your tail will slide down hill.
Ford has an "e-locker" that can electronically disengaged. So then you wouldn't slid sideways. Look for lockers that can be actuated via vacuum or electronically.
Chains front and back in that much snow. Plus a snow plow angled to one side.
I vote rear locker, Trygg style chains at least on the back, and a little more clearance! From your neighbor 5 miles south of the border, living at 3200 feet!
def agree! both seems to be key
Obviously having BOTH is best; that way you can get *more stuck* than anyone else!
All seriousness, I used to drive through up to 2' of snow on street tires with my forester. It did better than my lifted blazer on 33x12.5.
So just buy an old forester. Lol 😜
If just one or the other, just for snow purposes......chains.
Not a fair test! The Jeep was MUCH lower to the ground, and plowed a bunch of snow! For the conditions you were in, your rig had much better ground clearance. Plus it looks like you know your rig! Bravo to you for your MAD driving skills.
Thanks for the love man!
Watching this It's no wonder that I have chains & a switchable locker! In fact, the guys working recovery lone chains to people trying to get up an icy slope
they def make a difference and help id say
Throw a set of chains on the front wheels of the ZJ and you won't have to struggle as much.
Go the the diamond, instead of ladder pattern too.
Chains, Lockers, logs chained on rims and whatever it takes!
How about both?
How about BOTH??????
Open diff with chains front and back or chains in rear and cables in front 15-q18 psi. Momentum is your friend . however once your in deep snow we’re your plowing your diffs and front bumper chains are not much help because the snow is pushing your vehicle up off the road.
Snow that’s nice n dry low speed to stay on top can work w/out chains... wet snow : either chains or aggressive mudders
yeah we def should have done so. next time lower tire pressure.