Other techniques or important information for Bowser play: Koopa Klaw - there are 3 throws: Forward/Up (headbutt), backward, and a downward throw unique to PM. The grounded down throw is a meteor (can be meteor cancelled) and the aerial version is a spike (cannot be meteor cancelled) - Once you grab someone with side B, there's a waiting period where the game waits for you to input a direction to start a throw (I think 18 frames) - If you hold A, you can buffer the throw input to start on the first frame of the input window. It gives the opponent less time to react to getting thrown, so they are less likely to DI or meteor cancel properly - Likewise, you can mix up the timing on any of the throws by holding the direction *before* you get the grab, and the throw will start at the *end* of the input window. You can alternate between quick buffered throws and slow, max-length throws to mix up someone's meteor cancel timing on a grounded down throw. - If you hold B when doing an aerial down throw, you get a small boost of momentum upward, which makes it easier to survive after doing a down throw offstage. - In addition to the "Klaw Float" technique mentioned in the video, you can hold downward instead to move down quickly. Can be helpful if someone catches onto your recovery pattern and you want to mix them up a bit I should probably just make a standalone video describing Koopa Klaw lol
Another cool tech with Ivy is that since Dair gives a bit of upwards momentum Ivy can run off a platform, Dair while holding the left stick towards the platform and land on it again. It opens possibilities for baits and edgeguards
For MK Nair platwarp, I have found that if you fastfall about the frame your ecb passes the plat, or the frame b4 (couldn’t tell which) you can do it that way also, avoiding using a dj timing
Hydroplaning is actually a brawl tech, but you could only use usmash and grab since they're the only moves you can JC. Also smash input on side B is not always better than tilt, the higher momentum can allow/disallow followups on it, and when high off stage smash withdraw actually drops vertically much more than tilt. Also also: You forgot to mention water gun being a recovery tool at half/full charge because of the added momentum that pushes Squirtle backwards
No Up-B walljump cancel for Mario? I prolly use that way more than the other stuff mentioned and it works differently enough from Melee to be discussed.
awesome work! thanks for you hard work! if only brawl had such a comprehensive guide! ;) ** make one for brawl pls! i still play it casually with friends and it would be cool to revisit all the old tech in one video :) **
@@tonyh_kim also something to add here is that some DACUS are basically worthless, like Fox, whos DACUS goes 3 units further than his running upsmash. For reference that is how far ASDI moves a character! Sorry for being late on responding.
was considering not watching because i know majority of all available techs for melee and brawl, and i just decided to skim through to find somethings niche or things that i havent already seen just found out, after more than a year of playing p+, that i wasnt just unable to 'autocancel' wolf's laser because the version was different thanks anyways i thought the video looked excellent to send to learning players
I would imagine it's a combination of the relatively minor nature of the tech and its (comparatively) worse status in P+. Running upsmash is as good of an option as it always was, but in a game where JC upsmash and DACUS (character dependent) are more prevalent and often better than running upsmash it ends up looking kinda left behind. The one frame faster startup does have some specific applications if you're following up on an extremely tight combo or something, and it's not too much worse than a jc upsmash in general so it's still decent. Just not as much of a reason in this game to go out of your way to choose it. if that makes sense Personally would have still given it a higher rating than a 3 because it's not like it's a detriment but when it gets overshadowed like it does here I can at least see the argument
Aerial interrupt is in the game? So they just removed sheiks up air interrupt? I cant do it at all when i can do it every time in melee on BF and DL64 lol (im a 64 player so its the same timing as shine land)
i know most people find this mess of tech and physics to be the reason why melee (and project plus) is fun, but to me it just seems overwhelming. how are you gonna be able to fight an opponent if you can't memorize all their possible options? imagine playing a tournament match and suddenly the opponent starts inventing new special moves! that's how this feels to me
Hey sorry for the late reply but if you see this at all its a win in my eyes. Nuanced interconnected mechanics like those of Melee are overwhelming for newcomers no doubt about it; but it is also part of the draw to melee and other complex games with many interconnected systems (LoL, Starcraft, Valorant, ect). Melee's mechanics all work real-time and interconnect with each other in their functions adding both depth and complexity with their near infinite combinations. Naturally of these near infinites options, many will be terrible choices, all the way to really good choices, context depending. So if we know the very best options (often learned by watching high level players play various matchups in Melee's case) we can kind of get a sense of what to expect opponents to want to do in many situations and over time this game sense gets much better and you will be able to know what the most likely options are at most times. That's why even the best players get hit nearly every game, because not everything in the game can be reacted to and they cant keep every option in mind when playing, and I think that is a good thing overall. This is a bit of simplified a view on melee game theory but I hope it is a helpful response.
@@Calicrab I played Mordhau a while ago and had a similar problem with it. I think my brain just has problems competing with people in competitive games if there are a ton of options at their disposal
Other techniques or important information for Bowser play:
Koopa Klaw
- there are 3 throws: Forward/Up (headbutt), backward, and a downward throw unique to PM. The grounded down throw is a meteor (can be meteor cancelled) and the aerial version is a spike (cannot be meteor cancelled)
- Once you grab someone with side B, there's a waiting period where the game waits for you to input a direction to start a throw (I think 18 frames)
- If you hold A, you can buffer the throw input to start on the first frame of the input window. It gives the opponent less time to react to getting thrown, so they are less likely to DI or meteor cancel properly
- Likewise, you can mix up the timing on any of the throws by holding the direction *before* you get the grab, and the throw will start at the *end* of the input window. You can alternate between quick buffered throws and slow, max-length throws to mix up someone's meteor cancel timing on a grounded down throw.
- If you hold B when doing an aerial down throw, you get a small boost of momentum upward, which makes it easier to survive after doing a down throw offstage.
- In addition to the "Klaw Float" technique mentioned in the video, you can hold downward instead to move down quickly. Can be helpful if someone catches onto your recovery pattern and you want to mix them up a bit
I should probably just make a standalone video describing Koopa Klaw lol
I love your content ❤️❤️❤️
So sick, such a great resource! Thank you for doing this!
Thank you so much for the kind words
Amazing, the amount of time I had to explain sections of this video during the days of 3.02 and 3.5, this would've saved me tons of time.
glad I found this video, I wanted to play Project Plus for 3 years since the start of the pandemic! Now I finally get to play it today!
Another cool tech with Ivy is that since Dair gives a bit of upwards momentum Ivy can run off a platform, Dair while holding the left stick towards the platform and land on it again. It opens possibilities for baits and edgeguards
Wow, this is amazing! Thank you so much for putting this together!
Fun fact: Wall climing with neutral b's was referred to as Amsa climbing because he popularized it
Glad I found this vid! Can’t wait to continue watching it later
For MK Nair platwarp, I have found that if you fastfall about the frame your ecb passes the plat, or the frame b4 (couldn’t tell which) you can do it that way also, avoiding using a dj timing
amazing video still useful for newcomers like myself
Hydroplaning is actually a brawl tech, but you could only use usmash and grab since they're the only moves you can JC. Also smash input on side B is not always better than tilt, the higher momentum can allow/disallow followups on it, and when high off stage smash withdraw actually drops vertically much more than tilt. Also also: You forgot to mention water gun being a recovery tool at half/full charge because of the added momentum that pushes Squirtle backwards
Absolutely fire video great job
Hope you will make an updated one for P+ 3.0!!
No Up-B walljump cancel for Mario? I prolly use that way more than the other stuff mentioned and it works differently enough from Melee to be discussed.
awesome work! thanks for you hard work! if only brawl had such a comprehensive guide! ;) ** make one for brawl pls! i still play it casually with friends and it would be cool to revisit all the old tech in one video :) **
bro this is insane. thank u
Wow quite allot of info here, love it!
Amazing video! Very comprehensive.
Can you still DACUS on the latest P+ ? It doesn't even allow me to up-smash using Z. I booted up Vanilla Brawl and could do it easily.
I use z for dacus in p+. It still works. Only 3 characters can't dacus, kirby and the 2 DKs
@@tonyh_kim Word! Yeah, I figured it out. I think it's just easier to execute in Brawl.
@Justin Kidd yee timing is definitely tighter in p+. Glad to hear it worked out
@@tonyh_kim also something to add here is that some DACUS are basically worthless, like Fox, whos DACUS goes 3 units further than his running upsmash. For reference that is how far ASDI moves a character! Sorry for being late on responding.
@@justinkidd7634 thats because brawl inputs are generally easier
was considering not watching because i know majority of all available techs for melee and brawl, and i just decided to skim through to find somethings niche or things that i havent already seen
just found out, after more than a year of playing p+, that i wasnt just unable to 'autocancel' wolf's laser because the version was different
thanks anyways
i thought the video looked excellent to send to learning players
Amazing video
thank you so much i love you!
Thank you
Why is the practicality of running up-smash only a 3? It's an extremely useful technique for literally any character with a good up-smash.
I would imagine it's a combination of the relatively minor nature of the tech and its (comparatively) worse status in P+. Running upsmash is as good of an option as it always was, but in a game where JC upsmash and DACUS (character dependent) are more prevalent and often better than running upsmash it ends up looking kinda left behind.
The one frame faster startup does have some specific applications if you're following up on an extremely tight combo or something, and it's not too much worse than a jc upsmash in general so it's still decent. Just not as much of a reason in this game to go out of your way to choose it. if that makes sense
Personally would have still given it a higher rating than a 3 because it's not like it's a detriment but when it gets overshadowed like it does here I can at least see the argument
Roy also has a “projectile” if he presses Z during his neutral B
Aerial interrupt is in the game? So they just removed sheiks up air interrupt? I cant do it at all when i can do it every time in melee on BF and DL64 lol (im a 64 player so its the same timing as shine land)
huh...... 2023 and im still learning yoshi tech - Shiny Zubat
Great video!
This is epic
Very cool
Proud of you
Thanks Tavi! ❤️
Rawr
none of these words are in the bible
Us smash players all go to hell, we know😂
So good
i know most people find this mess of tech and physics to be the reason why melee (and project plus) is fun, but to me it just seems overwhelming. how are you gonna be able to fight an opponent if you can't memorize all their possible options? imagine playing a tournament match and suddenly the opponent starts inventing new special moves! that's how this feels to me
Hey sorry for the late reply but if you see this at all its a win in my eyes. Nuanced interconnected mechanics like those of Melee are overwhelming for newcomers no doubt about it; but it is also part of the draw to melee and other complex games with many interconnected systems (LoL, Starcraft, Valorant, ect). Melee's mechanics all work real-time and interconnect with each other in their functions adding both depth and complexity with their near infinite combinations. Naturally of these near infinites options, many will be terrible choices, all the way to really good choices, context depending. So if we know the very best options (often learned by watching high level players play various matchups in Melee's case) we can kind of get a sense of what to expect opponents to want to do in many situations and over time this game sense gets much better and you will be able to know what the most likely options are at most times. That's why even the best players get hit nearly every game, because not everything in the game can be reacted to and they cant keep every option in mind when playing, and I think that is a good thing overall. This is a bit of simplified a view on melee game theory but I hope it is a helpful response.
@@Calicrab I played Mordhau a while ago and had a similar problem with it. I think my brain just has problems competing with people in competitive games if there are a ton of options at their disposal
Yea it's a year late, but many of the sonic Gifs you used were from 3.6 and would no longer apply due to the Aerial Down B angle being changed to 90.
I appreciate the corrections either way, sorry for the mistakes
These are all great, but what in the fuck is a "wave-dash"?
u the man for this