Excellent topic. I'm a cult expert and a former Bishopric member. When I started to question the sacred stories, a Bishop told me if I left, I would 1) lose my family in this life and the one to come, 2) inherit outer darkness or perhaps the lowest kingdom, and 3) never again prosper in my business. All BS and threatening me is one of many examples of thought control.
That's so terrible, very controlling through fear and it works (at least temporarily), I remember being so afraid of these things and actually in a way they're right because when you leave you lose family, friends, support etc but the freedom from fear and guilt is worth it
I was sexually assaulted at church, with such force my long thin cotton skirt and loose cotton garment, was shoved up into my female parts. I screamed out three times, for it to stop. When my main attacker, was pulled away by his friend. And I had to pull my long thin skirt, and loose fitting cotton garments out of my v@gina. I felt like I had been finger r@ped. When I talked to the Bishop, I was ambushed by my attackers friend, showing up at the meeting. Who had obviously talked to the Bishop before the meeting. Where I was told that I needed to forgive, and stop talking about what happened. Or the Bishop would not renew my Temple Recommend I stopped going to church, no longer feeling safe. And one of my friends told me, that my attackers friend, was called as the Quorum President. That gave him greater control to discredit me. I told the Stake President and the Bishop in the other ward, what happened to me. But no one could stop my Bishop from retaliating against me. And finally a LDS Church Attorney from Utah, wrote me a Certified Letter telling me that I was not allowed in any LDS Church or LDS Temple property. And that I could not contact anyone, in the LDS Church! I should also add, my Ward Bishop had a reason to retaliate against me. I had told a previous Stake President, about when I heard yelling and screaming. To find out that Ward Bishop's two eldest daughters, had gotten a group of children to scream and yell and act threatening. Against a young sweet dark skinned girl. Snarling through clenched teeth, with pointed hands, screaming at her that their THEIR FATHER told them, that The Book of Mormon said she was wicked for having dark skin!!!
When I was TBM, I remember asking my husband why people called us a cult. I googled the definition of a cult and was like, "I mean, I don't know why we're pretending we're not. We're just a good cult". 🤦♀️
O my gosh. There is so much to unpack with this video. So much trauma for me I didn't even know I had. This church was so mentally damaging to me growing up I didn't even realize. Point 1. I remember being told as a 14 years old thet we should love everyone and to share our testimony to help bring people to God. But in the same breath was told when it came to marriage that I shouldn't marry If the man I where to marry wasn't worthy of the temple. Long discussion short about if I where to help guide him to the church it wasn't my responsibility to do so. So I just felt like I was told one thing but to act in another way. Point 2. I I never felt like I was good enough for my family unless I was doing them proud in the church. Like giving a talk I hated It i had sever anxiety but was told I couldn't turn down a calling. Then giving a testimony. My mom said she was so proud of me that I had a strong testimony. When my sister was 14 she was given her patriarchal blessing or whatever it's called. And no bishop ever talked to me about it until I was 19. He said pray and take the sacrament for a month and then we will get you set up to get your blessing. When I told my mom she was so proud of me. She even cried. I never got my blessing even after I did what was asked of me. So at that point is when i gave up on the church until i had my 1st kids because we all know how familt if forever is drilled into our brains. Not even me graduating High-school did I get as much love as just the thought of getting my blessing, or getting married, of having my kids And the last thing was the stupid charm thing the young women earn after completing things. One of my friends was 13 and had been working her but off to complete it. And she did but the bishop said she couldn't possibly have earned it with full love in her heart that fast and denied her the reward and made her do more she didn't get it until she was 16. Just the mind fuck the church makes the youth go through is insane and of course if you grow up in it you don't see it. Or recognize it for what it is. I'm so glad I'm not raising my kids with that.
Yeah, I feel like the church is really inconsistent in how they apply the rules and regulations, even to the point of sending mixed or even outright conflicting messages.
The rewards given in the church come mostly in the form of narcissistic supply. Mormonism is a narcissistic religious system patterned after Joseph Smith's narcissism. Recognition, praise, callings, orders of priesthood, elevated status etc.
I'm human. I make mistakes. Because of my mistakes, I almost never felt worthy to exercise priesthood or attend the temple. Full disclosure, I NEVER enjoyed going to the temple. For a long time, my wife and I would only do sealings because it was less of a time commitment and, honestly, less weird than an endowment ceremony. And with the priesthood, I never felt like I had inspiration or guidance and because of this, I dreaded being asked to give a blessing. Out for a year now.
I wish every man in the church had your honesty! After I left and realized the church wasn't true, I thought about all those priesthood leaders just going along and pretending.. all the patriarchal and father's blessings, callings etc.. you'd think more people would feel uncomfortable telling members what to do in the name of God when you know it's just your own opinion..
Celebrating those who leave for and return from (after finishing) their missions. You are socially rewarded for going on a mission and almost ignored if you choose not to do one. I chose to not go on a mission until I did a couple years of college (I ended up leaving before even starting the mission paperwork), and everyone was so disappointed in my decision
My first thought with this before even watching: being a member, doing all the ordinances, paying 10%, temple recommend holder, THEN you COULD POSSIBLY make it to the highest level of heaven
My brother and I weren't allowed to get our driver's licenses until after we got our Eagle Scout award, or until we turned 18. A few other families in our ward did this, so my parents followed suit. It might be a bigger trends elsewhere. Looking back, while overall I had a good experience in scouting and am glad that I got my Eagle, it is a form of control that I wasn't able to opt out if I wasn't interested in scouts because my license was being held hostage. It was also frustrating how arbitrary that rule, and a lot of other rules were, because my parents were the ones most negatively impacted by driving me around everywhere. Also, just as an indication of the rampant patriarchal worldview of the church, my parents required my sister to get her young woman's medallion before she could get her license, but it was very clearly an afterthought because unlike scouting, my understanding is that the young woman's is more independent, and therefore there is less built in support to help people finish.
Wait, I could have gotten out of giving a talk just by drinking coffee? Damnit. I usually just didn't show up on the day i was supposed to give a talk. You'd think they wouldn't ask after the first time, but no this happened a few times
My dad hasn't been asked in years after he used a couple of PG-13 movies to illustrate a point (poorly, admittedly) in a talk. This was after another talk when he sang a song from VeggieTales from the pulpit.
@@Trixie_Lavender oh yeah I get the pressure, I never refused a talk or calling because of that culture, I just know I’ve been called days before because someone backed out so he asked if I could do a talk instead; someone was able to say no. Like I could believe the bishop trying to pressure you but saying “no, if you try to make me I won’t show up” then following through puts all the blame on him for not respecting your boundaries instead of implying it and hoping he got the message if that makes sense.
I just thought of this. Another issue is there's no council to members about not teaching their own interpretations and beliefs on the youth. For example I had a young womens leader go off once about how lingerie was sinful even if you wore it for your husband. Which is obviously not doctrine at all.
Duty to God Award, Young Women's Medallion, rewards in primary for memorizing Articles of Faith, temple recommends (aka, getting to live with your family after death), the list goes on.
Consequences for bad behavior would be like if you said something to someone they didn’t like and they no longer wanted to spend time with you. Or getting an sti from having sexual relations. Punishment is someone preventing you from doing something or giving you extra of something. If you do believe in god your repentance should be between you and god no middle man in between…
Thank you for this information and all your work to help inform those of us who have left the church or feel uncomfortable in the church, also with family and friends who don't understand how we feel.
Behavior control: Where to begin? No swearing, no breaking the word of wisdom, no sex til after marriage, no double piercings or tattoos. Also, don't forget to read and study scriptures, never say no to a calling, obey your parents, keep the sabbath day holy, no shopping on Sunday, pray often, wear modest clothes, and listen to conference. Well, those just rolled off the top of my head pretty fast. (Thought control) Thanks for doing the BITE model! Have you ever read Luna Corbden's book called "Recovering Agency"?? Is so so good. It's the BITE model applied to mormonism. I think you should cover it. Thank you for your videos, Lex!
Per your challenge, I am reminded of my college days. I'm not LDS, but having grown up in Utah, most of my friends were. If a college student is honest enough to tell the Bishop about violating the Law of Chastity, that honesty could (and occasionally did) result in punitive actions such a disfellowship...especially for young women, even if it was involuntary. The goal is to motivate correction of one's behavior. The actual result is to make one a pariah in the local LDS community...and everyone _knew it!_ Even if it wasn't announced from the pulpit...as _did_ occasionally happen...everyone can see when a member _doesn't_ take the sacrament, and (being young adults) everyone naturally _assumes_ why. Social Enforcement. P.S. I noticed that the description of the Duty To God Award includes, "Personal Goals," but the Young Women's Award _doesn't." Is that because young women don't have autonomy?
Same! The punishment of not having “blessings” of sacrament, plus the social punishment of people around you noticing you aren’t taking it. Same with postponing missions or marriages 😢 In all cases it’s usually for s3x sins so there’s that extra layer of everyone knowing what specifically you did to warrant getting sacrament taken/postponing mission or marriage
I will day the 'family' connection in the last church was the thing that really drew me in. I still crave that connection. The price, however, is too high...
I’ll admit, even though Ive found out all this crazy stuff about Joseph Smith and it seems like this church can’t be true…. Im still scared of outer darkness
My entire oversized famdamily has shunned me and as the eldest daughter of 13 children, it's been very peaceful 😊 I should have verbalized my exit from the culture *wink wink* years earlier!!
TEMPLE RECOMMEND ! Pay money and you can go in ! Don't pay, stay away ! I know of several examples of people wanting to get married in the temple but had not been paying a full tithe. They were told if they bring to the Bishop the money that's required, we'll let you in to get married. If that isn't buying a blessing I don't know what is.
Try being a kid in one of those households. My family barely had enough to get by, so we frequently felt the repercussions of not being full tithe payers when my dad very wisely chose to pay bills over paying the church. I remember a time when all we had to eat were canned peaches and Frosted Mini Wheats from the bishop's store house because my grandmother was having extreme health problems, and my grandparents gifted the extras that they were given to us. We would have been so much better off on food stamps or WIC, and unlike church "charity," those programs weren't contingent on us giving 10% of our income to the church instead of buying food with it. To this day, I hate peaches, and even the mention of Frosted Mini Wheats makes me gag.
As a Jehovah’s Witness I was taught only spiritual brothers would receive privileges and appointments such as elder, ministerial servant, pioneer or serving at Bethel. However, your spirituality was chiefly based on how much time you spent preaching. Of course sisters were discouraged from marrying a brother that was not spiritual. However, after 100 years, they recently changed this. Congregation members no longer have to report the amount of time spent in the ministry.
We were told "thinking celestial, paying tithing, choosing to live a virtuous life, and spending time in the temple build faith".... and if we don't do these, we will be TKSmoothies for eternity! LOL So yeah, behave the right way or be a Telestial Kingdom smooth operator!
I think it's the way that the church implements punishments and rewards that makes it a cult. One prominent example for me was tithing. My family didn't have a lot, so we were frequent beneficiaries of "church charity." And that's when my parents had the money to pay tithing in full. At one point, all we had to eat were canned peaches and Frosted Mini Wheats from the bishop's store house (gifted to us by my grandparents who were also struggling because we didn't "qualify" for church assistance at the time). I hate both of those foods to this day. Only a cult would shame people into paying the church before buying groceries and then turn around and "supplement" the loss of necessary items with sub-par charity programs that are more of a punishment than a help. Food stamps would have been infinitely better and would not have required us to give up anything.
I was "advised" not to take the sacrament for a long time because I was depressed and not feeling God (Heavenly Father, eyeroll) kept his promises because of specific blessings I'd received about a specific thing which ultimately shattered me. Anyway. Point being, I was a convert, and I didn't know until watching your videos many years after leaving the Church that the sacrament was withheld FOR SIN. So all those people who saw me depressed and not taking the sacrament were clearly led to believe I did something awful when my SIN was being really fucking sad and feeling betrayed.
About 4 years ago, my temple recommend was taken for having a couple cups of coffee over a couple of months of time... Soooo ya, punishment. I received it back after 6 months of no coffee. Reward.
They say don’t listen to disaffiliated members of the church. That’s relatively new expression coming from the leaders. Anyone who has left the church don’t listen to them. (Control the information)
Even when I was Mormon, I didn't want exaltation. Who would want that? I mean, sure, I want to be with my family. I don't want to create my own worlds without end or whatever, though.
Yeah. Considering the narcissists that created this "church," I'm sure that they couldn't imagine anyone not wanting to be a god. They were all about their own exaltation. 🙄
I realized if I was supposed to create, or govern over, a world as a god that was going to be anything like this planet, then I'd pass. I couldn't sit by having the power of a god and not prevent my children from $3xu4l assaulting each other or gruesomely murdering each other. If there is a god looking over this world, then they're fucked up and I want nothing to do with them.
I actually had a hard time thinking of any "rewards" other than just being allowed to be involved with the group. I could give lots of examples of punishments, most of which are emotional punishments to shame, humiliate and guilt. So I guess that is a reward, not being shamed, guilted, or humiliated in front of the group. There's a lot of that. As a youth member it was being allowed to pass the sacrament and being portrayed to the congregation and family as a "worthy" and obedient. And if you're not passing, then you are obviously a sinner and an outcast.
Young people shouldnt be put in a spot where they have to talk about masturbation and sex with the bishop. If you lie in the interview youve done nothing wrong because you didnt really want to be there but you have no idea how to express that to your parents. Then you internalize the idea that you are dishonest and unworthy and no good because of it if you bless the sacrament in front of the congregation like I did many times. This fried my nerves horribly
Member for 22 years so off the top of my head... heaven or hell (outer darkness), being able to take the scarcement or not, being worthy to go to the temple or not being worthy to go to the temple, holding callings or being released from callings, good social standing (minimal gossip) or poor social standing (maximum gossip), members in good standing are more likely to have access to finical support from the bishop storehouse (my Dad was a bishop and used to get in trouble for being too generous with church funds), men getting promoted through the ranks of the priesthood or not and being able the exercise that priesthood or not. Erm that's all I can think of right now. So lets play the video and see how I did. :)
Behaviour, Information, Thought, & Emotional Control is used by all cults! They permit and encourage examination of their doctrines, but only under their terms and conditions! And cross examination is strictly forbidden! This is contrary to the free and open inquiry which must go hand in hand with any intelligent search for truth! More than that, this makes them hostile to human rights! And I say this as a Christian!!
Guys, if you want to see the true HORROR of religion, -Mormonism in this particular case- read "Educated," by Tara Westover. Believe me, you’ll stick to it from the first…to the last page.
I followed all the Young Women’s requirements in the handbook but had no interest in going through an award ceremony to get a YW medallion. I had undiagnosed inattentive ADHD, introversion and depression; I definitely did not meld into the neat little “box” necessary to really belong in the YW world. Autism, mental retardation, ADHD, dwarfism, etc; no neurodivergent or physically disabled person feels completely accepted in the Mormon church. The “Church” is a bigot’s haven.
Covenants and promises to god -such a tragic damaging concept. God does not negotiate & bargain but maybe through their god one might find hope-peace. One could ask why didnt a just, all powerful god help good hardworking people in 9/11. There were 2 temple mormons from utah killed as well. Their covenants, promises & garments didn't save them any more than any other human that day.
Kids' good choices reflect directly on me as a parent. Therefore, I will do everything I can to help them "choose" to be baptized, or go on a mission, etc. I will do this by always talking about these events as if they will happen for sure. Ex: "when you go on a mission...."
I got sick and tired of The church worrying about what I was doing with my junk as a teenager! This was in the 80's... When they were very very concerned about this. Disgustingly too much.
Once a Bishop handed out these bookmarks with PRP on them. And check boxes. It stood for pray, read pray. I think you got a prize if you completed the bookmark for the month. Only like one person, a sister in Relief society did it. It's not a bad idea. I'm in a women's ministry, and Nicki says to pray before studying the Bible. But it's still our choice.
Rewards and punishments coming out our ears! If your shorts were too short, you couldn't attend rehearsals for Dance Festival. Your shirt had no buttons? Out! You weren't allowed into the dance. Good old-fashioned shunning for anyone who was sexually active outside of marriage. Getting sent home from your mission in disgrace, for example. I'd say getting your temple recommend renewed was sort of the ultimate reward while in mortality. That was handy, though, because it meant you had to pay a full tithe, and (of course) to support everything else in the cannon. But we got off easy, relative to the more psychotic cults. There were no beatings that I know of. We were controlled by the desire to be obedient.
The most difficult task you are having is changing people's minds. This means pulling up the weeds of false theology and planting the good seed of the Word of God.
The first thing that came to mind was the threat of excommunication or disfellowshipment, the social stigma from the congregation is enough to influence behavior along with telling you that this puts you at risk of not being able to reach the celestial kingdom and be with your family forever. Then there is the promise of celestial glory that you may obtain but only if you are doing everything that the church tells you that is right, most of which is doing what they require of you to hold a temple recommend, don’t drink, alcohol, coffee or tea, don’t use tobacco, pay a full 10% tithe, magnify your calling, sustain current and past leaders of the church, especially Joseph Smith, damn that’s just what I remember off the top of my head.
Jodi hidebrandt a mariage counselor recommended for the church memebers in her area oc reach, definately uses rewards and punishment for chikdren inbher care as well. Very disturbing story.
I just think the whole thing about taking away the sacrament is insane. Having that looming fear of death without the washing away of sins every week is inhumane.
Thinking of behavioural control I think about fast and testimony meeting. You aren't punished for not fasting but you're not going to gain the abstract benefits like being close to the holy spirit. Also being called to speak as behaviour control. Once you say it in front of a crowd, you're more likely to tow the line. Speaking makes you more visible = more likely to come to mind when people are deciding who to call for various other positions...
I don’t know I went to church for about three years off & Maybe 4 1/2 years on and that was From 1996 to about a year ago when I left and have my name removed from church records. I know they always wanting me going to the temple or pressure me Into it, which I never did, or take the high higher priesthood. The only one that holds that is Jesus Christ himself and that’s by God . And I finally had somebody say how often or watch videos. How often do they speak of God in Jesus Christ in the church so my last three months I went every Sunday. I heard more about Joseph Smith, and all the profits than anything else. I just pray that more families are not ruined by the Mormon religion. And the only way they’re gonna save it. The church is confessing and telling the truth. I love my brothers and sisters, latter-day Saints. And I know the church has ruined a lot of different families from people that left the church and ones that stayed in. I’m just glad I’ve only had one generation a family in the church. and I hope everybody wakes up that God reveals. That all that temple work, and all the works that you do is not going to get you into Heaven. Or the Mormon religion and I hate for people to find out at the end of their life. and you do meet God that all you had to do was believe in Jesus Christ. He gave us a gift when he died on the cross in Calvary. A gift a gift it’s not a gift if you have to work for it. And anybody that does think that way is lost. I found Jesus and Christ for real and I send every day and I know it but I know I’m saved. And I hope more of the church. Mormon and latter-day Saints are very great and loving people following the wrong God and a false prophet.
In many places, if you don't look the part, you won't get Collings. My husband had a beard and when he had that beard, he was never called to any position of importance or note.
Don't get me wrong, I was very happy about this because I needed him home with our three small children to help me out and Collings take people away from their families.
Exmo Lex I love your heart and your spirit. I pray that one day you can heal from the spiritual abuse you suffered and come to know the true Jesus. His gospel is almost the opposite in every way from the one you heard growing up. Wishing you all the best things!❤
@@amytheshihtzumom fair enough but I wasn’t making an actual argument, just an invitation. I can make an actual argument for Christianity without the mention or comparison to Mormonism.
Excellent topic. I'm a cult expert and a former Bishopric member. When I started to question the sacred stories, a Bishop told me if I left, I would 1) lose my family in this life and the one to come, 2) inherit outer darkness or perhaps the lowest kingdom, and 3) never again prosper in my business. All BS and threatening me is one of many examples of thought control.
That's so terrible, very controlling through fear and it works (at least temporarily), I remember being so afraid of these things and actually in a way they're right because when you leave you lose family, friends, support etc but the freedom from fear and guilt is worth it
The difference between a religion and a cult is in how they treat you when you say you want to leave.
That’s really creepy. All kinds of threats. That doesn’t sound like Jesus Christ or a kind, loving Father on Heaven!
I was sexually assaulted at church, with such force my long thin cotton skirt and loose cotton garment, was shoved up into my female parts. I screamed out three times, for it to stop. When my main attacker, was pulled away by his friend. And I had to pull my long thin skirt, and loose fitting cotton garments out of my v@gina. I felt like I had been finger r@ped.
When I talked to the Bishop, I was ambushed by my attackers friend, showing up at the meeting. Who had obviously talked to the Bishop before the meeting. Where I was told that I needed to forgive, and stop talking about what happened. Or the Bishop would not renew my Temple Recommend
I stopped going to church, no longer feeling safe. And one of my friends told me, that my attackers friend, was called as the Quorum President. That gave him greater control to discredit me.
I told the Stake President and the Bishop in the other ward, what happened to me. But no one could stop my Bishop from retaliating against me. And finally a LDS Church Attorney from Utah, wrote me a Certified Letter telling me that I was not allowed in any LDS Church or LDS Temple property. And that I could not contact anyone, in the LDS Church!
I should also add, my Ward Bishop had a reason to retaliate against me. I had told a previous Stake President, about when I heard yelling and screaming. To find out that Ward Bishop's two eldest daughters, had gotten a group of children to scream and yell and act threatening. Against a young sweet dark skinned girl. Snarling through clenched teeth, with pointed hands, screaming at her that their THEIR FATHER told them, that The Book of Mormon said she was wicked for having dark skin!!!
My bishop Evan Love did the same. I went directly to authorities to have my name & LD$ ## removed. Not thru him!
When I was TBM, I remember asking my husband why people called us a cult. I googled the definition of a cult and was like, "I mean, I don't know why we're pretending we're not. We're just a good cult". 🤦♀️
O my gosh. There is so much to unpack with this video. So much trauma for me I didn't even know I had. This church was so mentally damaging to me growing up I didn't even realize.
Point 1. I remember being told as a 14 years old thet we should love everyone and to share our testimony to help bring people to God. But in the same breath was told when it came to marriage that I shouldn't marry If the man I where to marry wasn't worthy of the temple. Long discussion short about if I where to help guide him to the church it wasn't my responsibility to do so. So I just felt like I was told one thing but to act in another way.
Point 2. I I never felt like I was good enough for my family unless I was doing them proud in the church. Like giving a talk I hated It i had sever anxiety but was told I couldn't turn down a calling. Then giving a testimony. My mom said she was so proud of me that I had a strong testimony. When my sister was 14 she was given her patriarchal blessing or whatever it's called. And no bishop ever talked to me about it until I was 19. He said pray and take the sacrament for a month and then we will get you set up to get your blessing. When I told my mom she was so proud of me. She even cried. I never got my blessing even after I did what was asked of me. So at that point is when i gave up on the church until i had my 1st kids because we all know how familt if forever is drilled into our brains. Not even me graduating High-school did I get as much love as just the thought of getting my blessing, or getting married, of having my kids
And the last thing was the stupid charm thing the young women earn after completing things. One of my friends was 13 and had been working her but off to complete it. And she did but the bishop said she couldn't possibly have earned it with full love in her heart that fast and denied her the reward and made her do more she didn't get it until she was 16.
Just the mind fuck the church makes the youth go through is insane and of course if you grow up in it you don't see it. Or recognize it for what it is.
I'm so glad I'm not raising my kids with that.
Believe me…the actual damage, probably is…bigger than you’ve been describing.
All of this comment is on point
Yeah, I feel like the church is really inconsistent in how they apply the rules and regulations, even to the point of sending mixed or even outright conflicting messages.
The rewards given in the church come mostly in the form of narcissistic supply. Mormonism is a narcissistic religious system patterned after Joseph Smith's narcissism. Recognition, praise, callings, orders of priesthood, elevated status etc.
I'm human. I make mistakes. Because of my mistakes, I almost never felt worthy to exercise priesthood or attend the temple. Full disclosure, I NEVER enjoyed going to the temple. For a long time, my wife and I would only do sealings because it was less of a time commitment and, honestly, less weird than an endowment ceremony. And with the priesthood, I never felt like I had inspiration or guidance and because of this, I dreaded being asked to give a blessing. Out for a year now.
I wish every man in the church had your honesty! After I left and realized the church wasn't true, I thought about all those priesthood leaders just going along and pretending.. all the patriarchal and father's blessings, callings etc.. you'd think more people would feel uncomfortable telling members what to do in the name of God when you know it's just your own opinion..
Celebrating those who leave for and return from (after finishing) their missions. You are socially rewarded for going on a mission and almost ignored if you choose not to do one. I chose to not go on a mission until I did a couple years of college (I ended up leaving before even starting the mission paperwork), and everyone was so disappointed in my decision
My first thought with this before even watching: being a member, doing all the ordinances, paying 10%, temple recommend holder, THEN you COULD POSSIBLY make it to the highest level of heaven
My brother and I weren't allowed to get our driver's licenses until after we got our Eagle Scout award, or until we turned 18. A few other families in our ward did this, so my parents followed suit. It might be a bigger trends elsewhere.
Looking back, while overall I had a good experience in scouting and am glad that I got my Eagle, it is a form of control that I wasn't able to opt out if I wasn't interested in scouts because my license was being held hostage.
It was also frustrating how arbitrary that rule, and a lot of other rules were, because my parents were the ones most negatively impacted by driving me around everywhere.
Also, just as an indication of the rampant patriarchal worldview of the church, my parents required my sister to get her young woman's medallion before she could get her license, but it was very clearly an afterthought because unlike scouting, my understanding is that the young woman's is more independent, and therefore there is less built in support to help people finish.
Imagine, if this had been a requirement, but your scout leader was a perv, and you felt like you couldn't tell anyone... That happened A LOT.
Wait, I could have gotten out of giving a talk just by drinking coffee? Damnit. I usually just didn't show up on the day i was supposed to give a talk. You'd think they wouldn't ask after the first time, but no this happened a few times
My dad hasn't been asked in years after he used a couple of PG-13 movies to illustrate a point (poorly, admittedly) in a talk.
This was after another talk when he sang a song from VeggieTales from the pulpit.
Haha, that was a good way to get out of a talk in church. I wish I had thought of that.
Couldn’t a no suffice? I totally get not wanting to give a talk but on their end they have to fill in the time they gave you very suddenly.
@@lostmysteries6870 that would be the correct choice, but no. Saying no is just not really a thing in the church, or at least it felt like it to me
@@Trixie_Lavender oh yeah I get the pressure, I never refused a talk or calling because of that culture, I just know I’ve been called days before because someone backed out so he asked if I could do a talk instead; someone was able to say no. Like I could believe the bishop trying to pressure you but saying “no, if you try to make me I won’t show up” then following through puts all the blame on him for not respecting your boundaries instead of implying it and hoping he got the message if that makes sense.
I just thought of this. Another issue is there's no council to members about not teaching their own interpretations and beliefs on the youth. For example I had a young womens leader go off once about how lingerie was sinful even if you wore it for your husband. Which is obviously not doctrine at all.
Never been a mormon and don't think will ever be. Yet, Really interesting.
Not believing Mormon here.
Her view is extremely one sided.
I don't believe it's true but she really drags it into the dirt imo
Duty to God Award, Young Women's Medallion, rewards in primary for memorizing Articles of Faith, temple recommends (aka, getting to live with your family after death), the list goes on.
Consequences for bad behavior would be like if you said something to someone they didn’t like and they no longer wanted to spend time with you. Or getting an sti from having sexual relations. Punishment is someone preventing you from doing something or giving you extra of something.
If you do believe in god your repentance should be between you and god no middle man in between…
Not being allowed to take the sacrament or attend the temple. The worst part is people can see you.
Thank you for this information and all your work to help inform those of us who have left the church or feel uncomfortable in the church, also with family and friends who don't understand how we feel.
Behavior control: Where to begin? No swearing, no breaking the word of wisdom, no sex til after marriage, no double piercings or tattoos.
Also, don't forget to read and study scriptures, never say no to a calling, obey your parents, keep the sabbath day holy, no shopping on Sunday, pray often, wear modest clothes, and listen to conference.
Well, those just rolled off the top of my head pretty fast. (Thought control)
Thanks for doing the BITE model! Have you ever read Luna Corbden's book called "Recovering Agency"??
Is so so good. It's the BITE model applied to mormonism. I think you should cover it. Thank you for your videos, Lex!
Per your challenge, I am reminded of my college days. I'm not LDS, but having grown up in Utah, most of my friends were. If a college student is honest enough to tell the Bishop about violating the Law of Chastity, that honesty could (and occasionally did) result in punitive actions such a disfellowship...especially for young women, even if it was involuntary.
The goal is to motivate correction of one's behavior. The actual result is to make one a pariah in the local LDS community...and everyone _knew it!_ Even if it wasn't announced from the pulpit...as _did_ occasionally happen...everyone can see when a member _doesn't_ take the sacrament, and (being young adults) everyone naturally _assumes_ why. Social Enforcement.
P.S. I noticed that the description of the Duty To God Award includes, "Personal Goals," but the Young Women's Award _doesn't." Is that because young women don't have autonomy?
The first thing I thought of was not being allowed to take the sacrament for a certain period of time during your repentance process.
Same! The punishment of not having “blessings” of sacrament, plus the social punishment of people around you noticing you aren’t taking it.
Same with postponing missions or marriages 😢
In all cases it’s usually for s3x sins so there’s that extra layer of everyone knowing what specifically you did to warrant getting sacrament taken/postponing mission or marriage
I will day the 'family' connection in the last church was the thing that really drew me in. I still crave that connection. The price, however, is too high...
The United Methodists are probably the least cultish group, if you want the community without the heavy guilt, threats and manipulation.
Don't forget the Primary "Reward" (brainwashing) of the CTR ring... I earned mine around age 7 or 8?
I’ll admit, even though Ive found out all this crazy stuff about Joseph Smith and it seems like this church can’t be true…. Im still scared of outer darkness
My entire oversized famdamily has shunned me and as the eldest daughter of 13 children, it's been very peaceful 😊 I should have verbalized my exit from the culture *wink wink* years earlier!!
TEMPLE RECOMMEND ! Pay money and you can go in ! Don't pay, stay away ! I know of several examples of people wanting to get married in the temple but had not been paying a full tithe. They were told if they bring to the Bishop the money that's required, we'll let you in to get married. If that isn't buying a blessing I don't know what is.
Try being a kid in one of those households. My family barely had enough to get by, so we frequently felt the repercussions of not being full tithe payers when my dad very wisely chose to pay bills over paying the church. I remember a time when all we had to eat were canned peaches and Frosted Mini Wheats from the bishop's store house because my grandmother was having extreme health problems, and my grandparents gifted the extras that they were given to us. We would have been so much better off on food stamps or WIC, and unlike church "charity," those programs weren't contingent on us giving 10% of our income to the church instead of buying food with it. To this day, I hate peaches, and even the mention of Frosted Mini Wheats makes me gag.
Thought of another one - the ability to get assistance through the church because you pay your tithing, attend and do what they ask.
As a Jehovah’s Witness I was taught only spiritual brothers would receive privileges and appointments such as elder, ministerial servant, pioneer or serving at Bethel. However, your spirituality was chiefly based on how much time you spent preaching. Of course sisters were discouraged from marrying a brother that was not spiritual. However, after 100 years, they recently changed this. Congregation members no longer have to report the amount of time spent in the ministry.
and you can basically not be a JW as long as you do in the last days.
Reward: good reputation and marriage to good Mormon woman for a man who "chooses" to go on a mission
We were told "thinking celestial, paying tithing, choosing to live a virtuous life, and spending time in the temple build faith".... and if we don't do these, we will be TKSmoothies for eternity! LOL So yeah, behave the right way or be a Telestial Kingdom smooth operator!
😂kind of reminds me of my mission and asking if Adam and Eve had bellybuttons.
Love this series so much! Always happy every time you post a new installment! (I also love your cute mushroom/frog sweater
Yay, thank you!
I think it's the way that the church implements punishments and rewards that makes it a cult. One prominent example for me was tithing. My family didn't have a lot, so we were frequent beneficiaries of "church charity." And that's when my parents had the money to pay tithing in full. At one point, all we had to eat were canned peaches and Frosted Mini Wheats from the bishop's store house (gifted to us by my grandparents who were also struggling because we didn't "qualify" for church assistance at the time). I hate both of those foods to this day. Only a cult would shame people into paying the church before buying groceries and then turn around and "supplement" the loss of necessary items with sub-par charity programs that are more of a punishment than a help. Food stamps would have been infinitely better and would not have required us to give up anything.
I was "advised" not to take the sacrament for a long time because I was depressed and not feeling God (Heavenly Father, eyeroll) kept his promises because of specific blessings I'd received about a specific thing which ultimately shattered me. Anyway. Point being, I was a convert, and I didn't know until watching your videos many years after leaving the Church that the sacrament was withheld FOR SIN. So all those people who saw me depressed and not taking the sacrament were clearly led to believe I did something awful when my SIN was being really fucking sad and feeling betrayed.
About 4 years ago, my temple recommend was taken for having a couple cups of coffee over a couple of months of time... Soooo ya, punishment. I received it back after 6 months of no coffee. Reward.
Great video. Btw what happened to the music in your intro?
i wondered that too. the last few videos actually.
Copyright issues
They say don’t listen to disaffiliated members of the church. That’s relatively new expression coming from the leaders. Anyone who has left the church don’t listen to them. (Control the information)
Even when I was Mormon, I didn't want exaltation. Who would want that? I mean, sure, I want to be with my family. I don't want to create my own worlds without end or whatever, though.
Yeah. Considering the narcissists that created this "church," I'm sure that they couldn't imagine anyone not wanting to be a god. They were all about their own exaltation. 🙄
I realized if I was supposed to create, or govern over, a world as a god that was going to be anything like this planet, then I'd pass. I couldn't sit by having the power of a god and not prevent my children from $3xu4l assaulting each other or gruesomely murdering each other.
If there is a god looking over this world, then they're fucked up and I want nothing to do with them.
Temple recommends. You have to be worthy so you can't go to the temple if you're not living the principle.
I actually had a hard time thinking of any "rewards" other than just being allowed to be involved with the group. I could give lots of examples of punishments, most of which are emotional punishments to shame, humiliate and guilt. So I guess that is a reward, not being shamed, guilted, or humiliated in front of the group. There's a lot of that. As a youth member it was being allowed to pass the sacrament and being portrayed to the congregation and family as a "worthy" and obedient. And if you're not passing, then you are obviously a sinner and an outcast.
Young people shouldnt be put in a spot where they have to talk about masturbation and sex with the bishop. If you lie in the interview youve done nothing wrong because you didnt really want to be there but you have no idea how to express that to your parents. Then you internalize the idea that you are dishonest and unworthy and no good because of it if you bless the sacrament in front of the congregation like I did many times. This fried my nerves horribly
Member for 22 years so off the top of my head... heaven or hell (outer darkness), being able to take the scarcement or not, being worthy to go to the temple or not being worthy to go to the temple, holding callings or being released from callings, good social standing (minimal gossip) or poor social standing (maximum gossip), members in good standing are more likely to have access to finical support from the bishop storehouse (my Dad was a bishop and used to get in trouble for being too generous with church funds), men getting promoted through the ranks of the priesthood or not and being able the exercise that priesthood or not. Erm that's all I can think of right now. So lets play the video and see how I did. :)
Okay, ngl, I’m SUPER sad there’s no intro or outro music now 💔
Great content as always though
Behaviour, Information, Thought, & Emotional Control is used by all cults! They
permit and encourage examination of their doctrines, but only under their terms
and conditions! And cross examination is strictly forbidden! This is contrary to
the free and open inquiry which must go hand in hand with any intelligent search
for truth! More than that, this makes them hostile to human rights! And I say this
as a Christian!!
Guys, if you want to see the true HORROR of religion, -Mormonism in this particular case- read "Educated," by Tara Westover. Believe me, you’ll stick to it from the first…to the last page.
I followed all the Young Women’s requirements in the handbook but had no interest in going through an award ceremony to get a YW medallion. I had undiagnosed inattentive ADHD, introversion and depression; I definitely did not meld into the neat little “box” necessary to really belong in the YW world. Autism, mental retardation, ADHD, dwarfism, etc; no neurodivergent or physically disabled person feels completely accepted in the Mormon church. The “Church” is a bigot’s haven.
Covenants and promises to god -such a tragic damaging concept. God does not negotiate & bargain but maybe through their god one might find hope-peace. One could ask why didnt a just, all powerful god help good hardworking people in 9/11. There were 2 temple mormons from utah killed as well. Their covenants, promises & garments didn't save them any more than any other human that day.
Kids' good choices reflect directly on me as a parent. Therefore, I will do everything I can to help them "choose" to be baptized, or go on a mission, etc. I will do this by always talking about these events as if they will happen for sure. Ex: "when you go on a mission...."
I got sick and tired of The church worrying about what I was doing with my junk as a teenager! This was in the 80's... When they were very very concerned about this. Disgustingly too much.
Once a Bishop handed out these bookmarks with PRP on them. And check boxes. It stood for pray, read pray. I think you got a prize if you completed the bookmark for the month. Only like one person, a sister in Relief society did it. It's not a bad idea. I'm in a women's ministry, and Nicki says to pray before studying the Bible. But it's still our choice.
Rewards and punishments coming out our ears! If your shorts were too short, you couldn't attend rehearsals for Dance Festival. Your shirt had no buttons? Out! You weren't allowed into the dance. Good old-fashioned shunning for anyone who was sexually active outside of marriage. Getting sent home from your mission in disgrace, for example. I'd say getting your temple recommend renewed was sort of the ultimate reward while in mortality. That was handy, though, because it meant you had to pay a full tithe, and (of course) to support everything else in the cannon. But we got off easy, relative to the more psychotic cults. There were no beatings that I know of. We were controlled by the desire to be obedient.
The most difficult task you are having is changing people's minds. This means pulling up the weeds of false theology and planting the good seed of the Word of God.
The first thing that came to mind was the threat of excommunication or disfellowshipment, the social stigma from the congregation is enough to influence behavior along with telling you that this puts you at risk of not being able to reach the celestial kingdom and be with your family forever.
Then there is the promise of celestial glory that you may obtain but only if you are doing everything that the church tells you that is right, most of which is doing what they require of you to hold a temple recommend, don’t drink, alcohol, coffee or tea, don’t use tobacco, pay a full 10% tithe, magnify your calling, sustain current and past leaders of the church, especially Joseph Smith, damn that’s just what I remember off the top of my head.
Jodi hidebrandt a mariage counselor recommended for the church memebers in her area oc reach, definately uses rewards and punishment for chikdren inbher care as well. Very disturbing story.
Being charismatic or wealthy are usually more important with men getting higher church positions.
Temple recommends, tithing, partaking in sacrament, boys scouts, young women’s booklet- necklace…
Missed it! Doh! Good subject and format!
I just think the whole thing about taking away the sacrament is insane. Having that looming fear of death without the washing away of sins every week is inhumane.
Thinking of behavioural control I think about fast and testimony meeting. You aren't punished for not fasting but you're not going to gain the abstract benefits like being close to the holy spirit.
Also being called to speak as behaviour control. Once you say it in front of a crowd, you're more likely to tow the line. Speaking makes you more visible = more likely to come to mind when people are deciding who to call for various other positions...
I don’t know I went to church for about three years off & Maybe 4 1/2 years on and that was From 1996 to about a year ago when I left and have my name removed from church records. I know they always wanting me going to the temple or pressure me Into it, which I never did, or take the high higher priesthood. The only one that holds that is Jesus Christ himself and that’s by God . And I finally had somebody say how often or watch videos. How often do they speak of God in Jesus Christ in the church so my last three months I went every Sunday. I heard more about Joseph Smith, and all the profits than anything else. I just pray that more families are not ruined by the Mormon religion. And the only way they’re gonna save it. The church is confessing and telling the truth. I love my brothers and sisters, latter-day Saints. And I know the church has ruined a lot of different families from people that left the church and ones that stayed in. I’m just glad I’ve only had one generation a family in the church. and I hope everybody wakes up that God reveals. That all that temple work, and all the works that you do is not going to get you into Heaven. Or the Mormon religion and I hate for people to find out at the end of their life. and you do meet God that all you had to do was believe in Jesus Christ. He gave us a gift when he died on the cross in Calvary. A gift a gift it’s not a gift if you have to work for it. And anybody that does think that way is lost. I found Jesus and Christ for real and I send every day and I know it but I know I’m saved. And I hope more of the church. Mormon and latter-day Saints are very great and loving people following the wrong God and a false prophet.
Tithing is a great example of this. If you don't pay your tithing, you don't go to heaven.
You know of what you speak!
Love your toad stool...
😂
It’s a big successful cult.
Good stuff, Lex!
Tithing ...
In many places, if you don't look the part, you won't get Collings. My husband had a beard and when he had that beard, he was never called to any position of importance or note.
Don't get me wrong, I was very happy about this because I needed him home with our three small children to help me out and Collings take people away from their families.
❤❤❤
If you are in VIP Heaven, but your relative is in 1st Tier Heaven, can you elevate them to be with you?
I love your mushroom sweater! 🍄
Thank you!! 😊
Exmo Lex I love your heart and your spirit. I pray that one day you can heal from the spiritual abuse you suffered and come to know the true Jesus. His gospel is almost the opposite in every way from the one you heard growing up. Wishing you all the best things!❤
No True Scotsman
@@amytheshihtzumom fair enough but I wasn’t making an actual argument, just an invitation. I can make an actual argument for Christianity without the mention or comparison to Mormonism.
@@amytheshihtzumomt'is
shes atheist. pushing religion on those of us not wanting it is as bad as missionaries :(
@@dustyrose5994I'm sure you could, but could you do it without utilizing ANY fallacies ?
I am going to live with my family in the next life. And I know that because the scripture say so and that’s God promise.
So... A book says a thing so it must be true? Well by that same logic spiderman movies and comics are just documentaries to you.
@@joshuaboehner4652😂