D&D Story - That Time I Out Murderhoboed The Murderhobos
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- This is a story of that one time when I out murderhoboed my murderhoboing D&D players to teach them a lesson. The story I used is based on the Legendary swords, Gan Jiang and Moye.
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*Makes DnD NPC*
*Feels proud of self*
*NPC gets attacked*
*NPC reveals themselves as a ancient silver dragon*
Casts minor illusion: can I roll to see if I can make it better. Rolls a nat 20
Holy crap i didn't expect that many likes X3
Thank you~!
players: **insert surprised pikachu here**
Wait... did you say Silver Dragon!?! ARGENTA!!!!!!
I've done that with a shadow dragon before. Party never expected a swarm of shadows to creep up through the floorboards
Holy shit, the story about the blacksmith was nice. I forgot the video was about murder hobos.
Edit: Holy shit, the whole story was epic!
It's the story of Kanshou and Bakuya.
@@Necroscrow you know that because of fate, don't you? i only know because of it
@@williamvanhooser7441 No, I'm just enthusiastic about China's rich culture and history!
...Yeah, it's because of Fate.
@@Necroscrow I first heard the story because I read ancient myths and legends in my spare time but such stories tend to be repeated so I can usually predict what happens when I recognize someone using them as inspiration. However, I liked the variation on this one from the original. I try not to reskin old stories to make new ones myself because it feels like cheating but this was acceptable.
This story is a rip off of ushio to tora
I knew this plan was gonna be good when you said he was a level 20 monk.
D&D level 20 wizard: I cast magic missiles from my pants ⚡
Level 20 monk is universal for a good time.
It does depend on the monk though. Open hand, and maaaaaaybe drunken master. The other kits just don't cut it...especially elemental.
Really? what about an infinite cast level 5 spells and below warlock/sorcerer warforged?
What about the rogue? He can literally turn a failure into a critsuccess on a whim
This was a blast, I'm glad you kept the story going even after the murder hobo first acted. It just kept getting better and better.
However, it could use more robots and butts. Robutts, if you will.
ey its that one robobutt guy hows it going
My underrated youtuber radar is going off
😄😄
Yess! Jake Paul and he should swap subs!
@@hairyllama nah Jake Paul deserves the amounts of subs I have
So apparently this is the story of Gan Jiang and Mo Ye. And the thing is, this is a very accurate adaptation of that story. _The murderhobo was an actual character._
Great story, I definitely didn't see the twists coming (I was unfamiliar with the original story). Unlike what some other comments are saying, it doesn't feel like you treated the party unfairly, as you never directly punished them and allowed them to escape unscathed. As far as they can tell, it was just another adventure with a few twists that kept them on their toes.
I only learned about the blades from Fate/Stay Night as Emiya's signature Kanshou and Bakuya
Codename: Crisis Same
Something about it felt authentic. You can tell in the sense that ancient stories often deal with hubris, familial obligations, or the rules of hospitality, and this one actually deals with some of all 3.
Except in that story the assassin convinced the blacksmith's son to kill himself so he could turn his head in to the king for the reward, and in return he would kill the king. Talk about a really good persuasion check.
Codename: Crisis Lol awesome good to learn about it. To be fair before this video I hadn't heard or thought about the story of Gan Jiang and Mo Ye.
But when you said Fate/Stay Night all I could think about is Fate/Stay Night (Archer is mistaken for Saber by Rin and misidentifies him as "Actually Satan" right from the start lol
& some of the lines from the top of my head: "RIN!" "he probably only has those because he dragged that blacksmith's soul straight to hell" "RIN!!" "He is the fallen angel Lucifier himself!" By Project Mouthwash
I never knew he was so evil
I need to take notes
ikr
You and me both.
Don't get on C.J's bad side or he'll pull this kinda thing to get back at you 😅
Me and another player got teamkilled by our bard and cleric, both of which did not stand a chance against our paladin. In our first session. For our first ever game.
10/10 would play again
EDIT: The funniest part is that, once back to town, the paladin failed a deception roll, which got him imprisoned for life.
Vesania so many questions 😂
I did this with my Dragonborn Paladin. We were starting a lvl 1 campaign and the warlock and rogue didn't like that I rolled a good aligned character, so they planned on killing him to make me re-roll with the argument "My character's evil, it's what they would do". They didn't realize that I built a tank character, and their ambush bounced right off my AC. I turned around and hit them with the breath weapon, rolled max damage. 12 cold damage isn't a ton, but at level 1 it was all the hit points they had.
Why am I not surprised that it was the rogue and warlock
@@n.s.mcmahon6180 I played a Warlock and the other guy that got killed was a rogue LMAO
I've noticed in my games that paladins are the kings of pvp I got sorta mind controlled once as a paladin and turned into a miniboss almost party wiping
Fighting fire with fire, what could possibly go wrong?
Fire - Providing fun for toddlers since the dawn of time.
I dunno an explosion then.
It just adds to the fire it does nothing
Adding fire to oil, what could possibly go right?
@@kylepessell1350 adding water to said problem that should fix it.
I assume the murderhobo was the rebel leaders master?
Might have been he was tasked with getting revenge for the blacksmith. But seeing how the blacksmith's son didn't do as his father told him which was to take the blade and never return oh, he did return see his father's dead body and desired Revenge. The hobo might've been kind of a dick to the kid likely attempt to dissuade him from his revenge, but the boy was set for it. Seeing how course he failed and was likely mortally wounded the hobo picked the best plan that would see avenging the boy's Father which of course resulted in the boy's death in the process it was unavoidable but it look like he was going to die anyway oh, so you picked the best laid plan to pursue the revenge. Even though he treated the party like s*** too. It was better than being executed as Rebels. And he left it up to their devices on what they would do after he pretty much Avenge the blacksmith by killing the emperor. As it was stated it was a good thing the non murder hobos had the foresight to have a back-up plan for escape when the getting was good. But damn that was a nice case of story and punishing the murder hobos at that. Some would say it was Overkill but well usually experience is better than telling. It's one of the many things I agree with, as I learned my lessons better when I experienced them then when I was told about them or in this case was told not to do.
Nah, he was just an assassin sent to kill the rebel leader. The loyalty part of the story doesn't make sense here as the DM made him batsh*t insane and a murderhobo.
In the original tale (Gan Jiang & Mo Ye) the assassin hears the kid out and decides to promise him with the promise of offing the king if he commited suicide so the assassin could get his head to get close to the king, as that was his task in the first place. The rest, was the same. King decapitated, fried and the assassin decapitates himself too as he was dead either way. The Tomb of the Three Kings was made in their honour exactly in the story.
@@mintytea7033 actually in a reply a couple of comments up Don't Stop Thinking elaborates that the monk was a friend of the rebel leader. realizing that he was hopelessly beaten he and the monk hatched a plan, the monk would kill him and take the credit, then when the time was right would assassinate first the emperor and then kill himself, thus the " you're right, that would be hilarious" quip.
@@mintytea7033 Any chance this tale inspired the movie Hero to some degree, as well?
@@mintytea7033 Reminds me of the Jet Lee movie, 'Hero'. *Spoilers*
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About the assassin that tried to kill the first emperor of China, but to get close enough, he first convinced a group of previous would be assassins to give their lives in front of witnesses, so that he would be brought to the palace to receive his reward from the emperor himself. But when he faced off against the last of the previous assassins, he was told why they had failed. And it involved the wisdom of calligraphy, and the symbols in their alphabet for the words "Our Land", "Chi" and "Na", that combine to be "China", and what he realized the emperor was trying to accomplish with his war of conquest. But in relaying his story to the emperor and telling him that he had come to assassinate him, but had changed his mind, he laid down his life, and gave the emperor some wisdom about how he should rule.
wait so the murder hobo knew the father, trained the kid, killed him when he became the rebel leader, so that he can become close to the emperor and kill him as well, before killing himself since he was sure he wasn't going to make it. is that about right?
There's been weirder plans.
your typical petty chinese revenge plot whit lots of death
@@AGrumpyPanda - 'The Count of Monte Cristo' is another good version of the revenge tale
Welcome to the futility of Chinese plots
Yeah it seems like the son actually wanted to be killed. They were discussing something that couldn't be heard. This is what happened in the story it is based off
I actually have a murderhobo trap, myself. Maybe not as complicated, but still works. It's a set of imperial guards watching a checkpoint, including an Elf Ranger, a shy Wizard, a Half-Giant Ogress Monk, and the Captain, a Fighter with the "Lucky" Feat. They seem affable, even friendly, but are a high enough level that they will wreck a party that tries to attack them. Players try to attack the Captain, but telling said murderhoboes that their Natural 20 was actually a 4 is pretty priceless.The Captain just keeps Dicemastering everything, the Ranger picks off casters, the wizard (hidden inside the guard station) counterspells, and the Half-Giant Ogress Monk flurries for 3d8 instead of 1d4 and picks up KOe'd Players to keep them from getting healed.
They're not out to kill and tend to spare parties they fight, but they get the message across.
Should have leveled up more and then went full hobo. If hobo times fail first, then train to go a second time and rinse and repeat.
See, that sort of method is more likely to just make this kind of player mad and lessen their desire to play the game.
In this video, the DM actually tricked them into beginning to relate more with their characters, and become better players as a result
Dude they will take this as a challenge they will just try and find ways to make it easier to kill them.
I'm actually against things like killing murder hobos. If youre incompatible with someone do not play with then. Like for example, if they want endless action and battles and you want a plot. A master duty is not easy, it should be first to make sure that everyone in the group is having fun.
The only sad thing was nobody retrieved Silent Night, I'd keep her on my monk despite never using it (maybe against something truly epix I'd make an exception) just to keep the sword with soul of innocent woman inside) from being unnecessarily stained with blood. And even that despite being chaotic evil (that character was written as believer of religion of law of power and personal freedom, basically absolute freedom of choice as long as you're powerful enough to escape consequences, so woman of conviction making a decision to save her family by self-sacrifice strong enough to make top-tier sword deserves respect of her wishes).
Isn't a shortsword a monk weapon though?
So couldn't you use it as such?
The emperor's sword was made by the same fire using the same soul. No one expected the smith to make two swords. As far as she knew, at her death, she gave her life to make the emperor's sword. The smith was just a master smith not a priest or necromancer. He had no way to guide a spirit into a specific place. I would say both swords have equal claim.
@@JackofCookieJars You read comments to the end? Yes, I could use it, no, it wouldn't fit my character lore, plus that's a possible "rocks fall you die" escape device which would be taken into account in normal encounters if I used it as any normal sword, fucking up all allies.
Long story short - my DM pretty much threw the character balance out of the window, allowing you to use your character as long as you want, and if he dies/you decide to send him on vacation etc. CREATING A NEW LEVEL 1-5 character, so there often were things like four lvl 10-14 whirlwinds of the battlefield and my lvl 1 fighter with 18 charisma and 17 intelligence coupled with no weapon proficiencies, basically an umagical mage that was just a minor noble's daughter that were required to go due to every nonle house having to send somebody (funnily enough she grew to 25 charisma due to some magical events in which ugly 2hp cleric had to become handsome and me covering him, thinking it's an offensive spell, making unwilling seduction checks when having her face uncovered, took some monk levels (lvl 4 warrior/ lvl 7 monk) and became evil-ish due to avenging family unjustly killed by fake treason accusation in "he punched me, I'll torture him and his family to death" sort of overkill as any socially oblivious spoiled kid with delusions of granduer would do, being the konk in question).
So imagine me giving her weapon from this story, literally believed to be the best sword in existence - anybody below lvl 10 becomes insignificant in combat as either I kill everybody immidiately or encounters become too brutal.
And that works for any character - with OP weapon on one character others are insignificant, with eveybody being OP weapon loses its charm, but with a screwup escape/boss battle weapon on one character you can roll balanced encounters with some new player assists from me to new players/saving lives of below lvl 5 characters (a non-frustration rule, almost always one ally has a "oh fuck button" to save low level ally up to 2 times, basically a protection period wasted on two uses/lvl5, whichever comes first.
Oh, and 5:18 - seems like Silent Night literally has a part of her...
Gah I must really not understand alignment at all because without you telling me I would have read that as Lawful Evil....ugh.
I had my first player death yesterday when my groups bard ranger decided to try killing a Very polite necromancer who has not caused any harm. For those of you who are curious this was the necromancer in the Lost mines adventure.
Half the party tried to save him (the bard) while the other half stayed on the side lines leaving the bard to his fate. 2 rounds of magic missles and a few zombies pounding the bard ended with his death and the rest of the party peacefully leaving the necro with a promised reward of a ring of protection and for the guy who stayed out of the fight got a brand new Skeleton.
Ok so this reminds me about 1 time during a oneshot my me and my party were captured by necromancers bullywugs and orcs and after taking out some bullywugs and orcs a freindly bullywug came out and siad she'd help us get out passed the necromancers. I a gnome barbarian didnt belive her an rolled insight cue nat 1 so i thought she was a necromancer herself and was leading us into a trap i didnt kill her but i was wary (i did end up dying but that is a differnt story)
I mean it's not really a murderhobo if it's literally a necromancer lol
@@auroradragen5920 Why did the guy wanted to kill him?
"Like a schoolyard bully with the teachers on his side..."
Yup, they're screwed.
After hearing that compelling backstory, I had to remind myself that this is a video about murder hobos and the son would not get a happy ending.
First off love the story. The amount of madness was fun to see.
The Murderhobo is a valid way to play the game *if and only if* everyone is on board with it. It was the way D&D was founded back in first edition decades ago and so these lovely stories like the one here were done at the campaign level. It was literally killing an entire army of nameless people and learning the story a couple of persons at a time and the investment took many sessions (if you played every day it would take a couple of weeks or a month) till everyone was on board to learn more. If a person wants to play a tactical game (which ultimately is at the root of a murderhobo style as it is called) then the player has to know that there are limits to it.
If it is an issue for the DM, the simplest solution (unlike the awesome one used here) is to put the problem with killing a lot up front. Polymorphed Dragons instantly get a point across. Having a Demon or evil dragon calling them a brother and showing that they have seen there acts approve of it. Having the hobo thing they have gotten the great magic weapon by killing the fighting princess only to discover that her mother has 3 friends and they each have a part of the rod of many things (what ever artifact you invent) imbedded in a weapon. Let them kill a little worthless person only for them to be an agent of the secret society of Nihm and they are all over the lands and will attack them every time they are not looking and anywhere at anytime until they loose a player to balance the “ledger”.
These tricks all work a bit but ultimately the best thing is to find a way to show the player why those that moved past this kind of play do so. These are tricks to start a conversation and that is the best trick of all to kill the “murderhobo” - talking.
The play style of first edition wasn't really murderhobo playstyle (though they probably would have caused less issues) just combat focused with very little RP (that style has a name but I'm blanking on it). The difference is that murderhobos see every situation as a combat one including shopping and listening to exposition, which is why they often throw the game completely off the rails.
As someone who has played since Basic, I don't recall the muderhobo being the designed playstyle. Back then, it was about getting lots and LOTS of gold and building castles.
I had suggested a pretty interesting Murderhobo trap idea. If the murderhobo’s antics goes too far have this happen “As you made your kill. The air gets cold…and you hear the sound of a heart beat. It increases and the sound of foot steps draw nearer. Eventually you see a winged figure in armor. He points to you and says “Your sins are innumerable. Prepare to pay”. Roll initiative”
Nothing like holding a mirror up to players and seeing how they deal with the problems you had to.
The story is perfect, but if they’re feeling cocky of their skills, you can always assign them the mission of killing a certain old man who is always accompanied by canaries.
Bahamut would see that coming.
and the old man replies "It's dangerous to go alone, take this!" 7 breath weapon abilities, Type: Fire.
@@unokitsune But the PCs won't >:D
"That one's a George R. R. success."
Oh man, I'm dying.
So the hobo did all this for revenge against the emperor for killing the smith and realising that the son would be incapable?
The son proposed the idea when he knew that the rebellion would fail. That's why the hobo laughed and said, "You're right, that would be hilarious!" Before chopping off his head. The players missed most of the conversation because they took too long.
@@DontStopThinking so the murder hobo had some morals too?
@@DontStopThinking YES! Called it! Feels like my fanfic being made canon
@@DontStopThinking that is a pretty clever story.
to solve murder hobos, you either have to do this, or you create a military manhunt for the hobos and bring them to heel
Still my favourite NPC, shortly followed by the illustrious ghetto goblin Derp (disappointed looking wizard here).
Wait, you play Leraline? How does it feel being a celebrity?
@@AdonanS Naw, that's entirely CJ's character. I just happened to be a wizard that did the same stuff in those sessions.
@@VelocitasEradicato Close enough.
@@AdonanS Woo!
mother of god, MY PC's name is Derpus
i came here to lol so hard instead giving me a bowl of feels and RAGE!!!! :(
ruclips.net/video/BWT03-0qAj0/видео.html
I loved it. This was absolutely awesome. The story had so much twists and gruesome deaths... Great! And a real good way to keep obnoxious members of the party at bay.
@Natasel, I've played in table-top groups that would've massacred the entire Imperial Palace before midnight... (lolz) ;o)
I better take notes myself, especially since I'm planning my very first session as DM soon 😁
I like this because often times when people become murderhobos they aren't thinking of others. They aren't experiencing how their acts are ruining the game for others. To give them a taste of their own medicine and go from there is a good thing. And if they still persist on being murderhobos you gotta sit them down and ask. "Ok, your still murdering random people for the hell of it. Your not longer heros. We can end this campaign now before you all die a grissly death, or we can turn it into a evil campaign which is pretty much what your running now, anyway. What do you choose?" and go from where. Honestly, unless your running a evil campaign, murderhoboism does not belong and shouldn't be tolerated. Sure, they can do whatever they want, but there are consequences for murdering people. Logical consequences anybody with half a brain could figure out. If people want to explore these things, they should do it in a dedicated evil campaign, not ruin other people's fun.
Eh, From what I can tell the whole party was murder-hoboing, in which case, trying to force them to play a game a way they dont want to isnt good. However I just woke up so, I might be wrong.
*you're
My solution has been and remains exemplified by a phrase I heard often in a video game I play. "Your actions have consequences." If you do evil, if you break the law? Well you can run on for a long time, but sooner or later someone comes to cut you down.
Personally, I don't think murder-hobos would fit into an evil campaign either. Killing every random person you meet would fit for when you're playing a non-sapient monster, but it doesn't fit with regular evil characters. True evil has motivations, ambitions and plans. Why kill random villagers if you can instead gain their favor and use them as pawns in your machinations?
You have to remember, the life of a murder-hobo in the DND universe is supposed to be extremely shortlived. If you kill random people just for fun, then you'll get onto the radar of law enforcement. Sure, you can probably take out a village guard or something like that, but it doesn't take long for people to see that you pose a threat to the kingdom/society you're in, so they'll send out their elite force to end you.
You can go the serial-killer-route and hide your kills, but that doesn't really fit murder-hoboing either, because it requires careful planning and execution. If you enter a town, leave it 2 days later and suddenly 5 people are found murdered, then your chances of not being blamed for it are realistically speaking nil.
Anywho, when it comes to evil characters, the old saying should be respected: "Every villain is a hero in their own story". Doesn't mean your villain absolutely NEEDS to see himself as a hero, but he at least has to be sensible about what he does. He needs a greater purpose in his actions.
My favorite character is a fugitive multiple times over, because she _did the right thing._ She killed someone attempting to abduct and rape her best friend, only this this turned out to be a tax collector, and killing a tax collector is a capital offense no matter what. Since then she has killed a bounty hunter sent to collect her (a battle the party wasn't supposed to win, but the dice gods smiled on us), and then the father of the bounty hunter leading an entire army. (She and the party paladin Dimension Doored from a crow's nest when he went to the privy).
It's kind of a crapsack world, Good people are being displaced by evil ones all over the place, and it's up to the party to decide which one they want to address and which others they wish to let run their course. Every decision they make earns them both friends and enemies, _especially_ when they do the right thing. No good deed goes unpunished. For example they just rescued her three half-sisters who were being held captive to draw her into the light, escaping to the Feywild afterward. The only problem there is that the Feywild is in the hands of druids who are internally at war between the pastoralists (who believe nature is sacred and must be protected for that reason) and the utilitarians (who believe that nature should be tended and shaped, and that its ultimate purpose is to serve people). So now they're having to deal with the utilitarians (many of whom also happen to be human supremacists) taking over the Feywild and exiling the rightful leaders.
Every story line generally gets a funny hook though. One of the players said about the (good) druid leader, "she sounds like she's about to sell me a timeshare". So I had to insert timeshare druids into the game, who have their own little resort on the edge of the City, and this has become the base of operations for the government in exile. Meanwhile the father of all four tiefling sisters (previously banned from the Feywild for accidentally burning down a large chunk of it -- sorcery becomes a lot more error-prone where there are high levels of magical "background noise") is running around pretending to be planning an invasion, to distract from the actions of the party and the rightful government.
So some stories kind of end up going down the "half the world loves you, the other half wants your head on a pike" path even if the players make explicit choices to not murderhobo. During the jailbreak, they had decided not to kill anyone they didn't have to. Yet the dice gods made themselves known, throwing up four encounters in five opportunities instead of the two I had intended, and they ended up killing five people simply because there was no way to avoid it and still make the time constraints of the primary objective. They did conspicuously choose to leave four of them alive, going so far as to stabilize one after pumping him full of arrows, and also allowing frightened bandits who realized they were overmatched to turn and run. They did amazingly manage to not kill ANY prison guards, even teleporting one of them out with the party because he chose to assist them rather than fight them. A second one (who was not at all on their side) made it through before the Teleportation Circle expired but that just led to lots of fun beating her up and hogtying her and using Banishment to send her back to their original plane to face trial for the party's crimes.
Anyhow, the point is that there needs to be social backlash to drive the plot along -- whether the party is full of murderhobos or upstanding people who would rather go around enemies than through them. If everyone loves them, there's no tension.
Also a boiling oil pot mimic sounds fun to throw at PC's
All i'm saying.... Were-house.
Or Extendigo wendigo.
Don't forget the Gazebo @@rogaldorn3643
I have ran a session where the party was in a house...fighting mimic chairs, mimic coat racks, mimic desks...and then the noticed that the floor was strangely damp, and flesh like after someone got tripped. Yup, the house was a mimic too.
You can do anything, till your DM literally says no.
I l ovee how the elf wizard looked perpetually done with everyone's shit.
Holy crap! I have heard only few stories in DnD that have shocked me quite like this. Well done.
This is a friendship goal I genuinely want to achieve
The story of that smith definitely sounds familiar. Drawing from actual mythology just to bait a trap? Well done. What player would see that coming?
The enthusiasm in your voice made this video 10x better. Keep up the awesome videos
You are evil and I love it XD
Sweet DM revenge...
I am currently DMing my first game, and Monday will make Week 2! I don’t have a murderhobo in my game (fortunately), but they are a... _colorful_ group to say the least. Idk, we’re having fun and I see no reason to do something like this. Yet. I’m keeping my options open, at least.
I think I found my new favorite story. It’s clever, wise, hilarious and carries a good cautionary tale about murder hobos. It hits all the common marks of the archetype and ultimately shows you where it ends. Seriously, thank you for this absolute gem of a masterpiece of DnD.
Also, C.J has an awesome evil laugh! He's seriously one DM I don't wanna mess with 😁
My lvl 1 players decided to attack a merchant walking down the road (He was dressed in fine clothes and refused to serve the poor/Dirty murder hobo) I also decided to make him a lvl5 wizard knowing full well they'd attack him. Fastest new character sheets ive had to roll
damn dirty peasants don't know their place (Fireball)
... dang, you actually added legitimate backstory to your actual murder hobo at the end (seriously, talk about loyalty till the end).
I’m getting some joker’s final smash vibes from this
0:10 That's why if you try that stuff with the NPCs in the Legend of Zelda, the fires in the room would start shooting fireballs at you until you ran away (or died).
When the dm cultures you into the murder hobo life by having every single npc a traitorous bastard or a pawn of darkness trying to lead us to a miserable life, then the life of a murder hobo is the one you live. Even when all logic says, it's probably just a salty bartender for the fact we got a drunk drow with a Coked up half orc on the side
Can't really go back to it after becoming that paranoid. Unless...well re-rolling
I love how enthusiastic you sound in this story. I'm looking forward to more animated stories by you.
Goddamit this story is hilarious. I wanna learn to dm like this when the time comes when I face murderhobos
This is when you throw in a shape changed gold dragon npc 😈
What if I have a whole party of murderhobos?
Summon an op deity to tell them off
And possibly bind them under contract forever to atone for murderhoboing
@@legendarydigitize2523 I was actually thinking of that, like ok if you want to be evil lets give you a purpose
Make an invincible npc to follow them around and attack them.... and everytime he shows up, put the music x gonna give it to em :)
@@agentphoenix8409 lol mr x
Start over. Get a sensible player or two to join. That or craft a campaign that will suit a murderhobo.
Or...you know, you could just explain the concept of restraint and its importance.
“The salt mined out of that interaction was scccccrrrumptious!”
While murderhobos can be disruptive, as my group did find out, sometimes the murderhobo is also right.
You see, my group is old-school. Once ANYTHING seems off they are likely to go off to on a murder-rampage. And considering we play Rolemaster, this is not always the incorrect choice: More than once has this actually prevented us from being, say, backstabbed by an evil wizard.
That being said, Rolemaster is the type of game that crits can kill you, no matter what level you are, so even murderhobos pause for a moment to ask if it is worth going murderhobo.
Ah, So i'm guessing you based this scenario on the Legend of Gān Jiàng and Mò Yë, good choice my friend, i see you are a man or culture
Props for making a story based on mythology.
"The tomb of the three morons." Something tells me i'm related to one of those heads.
That was absolutely brilliant. Having an impossible to win npc is not enough to stop the murder hobos, like i read in other comments. They will just get mad at you for throwing that npc against them. But the way you did it was amazing. You made them see from a 3rd party perspective how a murder hobo looks like. But then he doesn't kill them but sides with them, making the whole thing feel wrong. And he continues to crap all over the story, making the players feel angry that he keeps bringing them to awkward situations. Murder hobos are not cool...they destroy the game. I hope they saw that. Awesome stuff dude.
To tell the truth I cannot stop seeing that invencible npc thing as a bad thing, I dont think that masters that do that are good masters. I mean, the master main objective is for the players to like his game. Before playing with people I usually ask then what they want, some players want a well crafted plot, others want a power fantasy. I Believe that if the master and player are incompatible, that they should not play togheter. The same when players are incompatible with each other. But of course, there are skilled masters out there who can play just about any kind of game.
The swords are... Noticeably off theme from literally everything else.
Ok I have to say that even though you were messing with those guys, and needed a really cool plot hook or two. That was a wonderful story and the ending of the three monarchs was a great touch! Subscribed!
“How dare you, my grandmother was a Murder Hobo!”
DST deserves a couple of zeroes adding to his sub count; he really helped me out with learning the rules and getting the most out of my Warlock.
i love that the npc murderhobo, dispite seeming like a murder hobo, was acually NOT a murder hobo, everything he did was a ploy to get close to the emperor!
This went all sorts of ways I wasn't expecting. Great DMing, my friend!
Bro..... That was EPIC! Str8 up beautiful
Man I love how your murderhobo derailed the entire plot LOL. I was rolling on the ground when he decapitated himself
I've played in a group like this before just as a player.... and even then it was soul crushing. I for one love telling stories and developing characters. But what's more fun than actually following a story line and having adventures? Why murdering everyone in sight that's WHAT! "sigh"
I kinda want to piss off a DM enough that he'll do this and then somehow still outsmart that DM
ive never had a problem with murder hobos. But i have been killed twice by impetuous party members. Once for good reasons and once for correctly noting down and cataloging who had what items and demanding equal distribution.
this is not related to the video but I brought the The Channeler class and can´t wait to try it out
My murderhobo party once got into trouble with the law as their shenanigans earned the mage a Death Curse (BOVD just came out, and it was a cool concept) from the first campaign's Big Bad, such that all crimes in the kingdom would be believed to be his work, and any protestations would come out as admissions of guilt and/or insults to the people listening.
Amusingly, when the mage was arrested and the charges read, he didn't actually realize that something was up until cattle rustling was mentioned. The party had committed things like arson, murder (felony murder from the aforementioned arson to be specific), theft, kidnapping, impersonation of the guard, resisting arrest and treason.
"I am innocent... Of a substantial number of those capital crimes."
This plot hook is actually crazy good.
I'd love to play a campaign like this.
The funniest part was when the murder hobos were goaded into becoming obnoxious perverts. 11:11
Their weapons had to be collected with thick gloves! LMAO 😂 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I would also like to know what was the party’s initial reaction after this gaming session? Did they act like you were messing with them? Or did they think this was all natural?
Kanshou and Bakuya hook? Awesome.
Except not the fate version but the real legend, so 'Gan Jiang and Mo Ye'
@@davidbeauchemin1840 Well, it's technically the same thing. I was referring to the original myth, but couldn't remember the Chinese name. Kanshou and Bakuya are named that way because Fate is a Japanese series and the characters read out that way.
Wow - that end with the shrine was a nice extra. Good video! Well done!
Oh look, a murder hobo rogue. What are the odds?
Also.... Impressed. In the end Silent Night, the sword that killed the emperor, was the same sword the blacksmith's son wielded. Like the sword, unable to protect its user, was dedicated to revenge. AND the son's killer.
Wait, why was the vagrant monk representing the virtue of loyalty?
It's based off the story of Gan Jiang and Mo Ye from the historical text "Wuyue Chunqiu". What is in the video is mostly accurate, and the vagrant was deemed loyal because he offered to help Gan Jiang's son fight the king in his stead if he commited suicide for him to bring the head to the king out of sympathy, which he does in the original, instead of the vagrant going full murderhobo and decapitating the poor guy straight up as seen here.
Edit: I was right. I saw CJ's reply to someone that basically confirms this.
I don't know the original story, but this can be maybe interpreted by the vagrant monk being an ally of the smith's son the whole time, and the son getting his vengeance from beyond the grave. The son lets himself be killed by the vagrant so that he can gain the emperor's trust and infiltrate the palace, then murder the emperor. He was loyal to the end, even if it meant his death.
Tho that's just my trying to put the pieces I don't have together
Wow, this was overwhelmingly epic. It is inspiring to see how you pulled this lesson off, I don't think I could have come up with an idea like this and execute it as well.
heh: great job throwing so many mythical sword forging stories into the stew pot and making it all mesh well, that was a treat.
Good story, one tiny issue. When you pee into a pot of boiling oil you don't get a bad smell, well you do but mostly you get steam that displaces the oil and causes a very minor explosion of oil. However a very minor explosion of oil is more or less the formula for a massive oil fire.
One of my more convoluted ways of regicide was to introduce deep fried food to a kingdom so that it spread far and wide, because fried food taste great. Then during a feast with most of the upper nobility featuring a massive cauldron deep fryer to add by sling shot a small magic pebble of holly water.
DM wasn't much of a cook and didn't know anything about cooking oil fires and why adding water is often a death sentence at the very least a good way to burn your house down.
My only regret was that in the histories the death of the king was listed as cooking accident rather than assassination by multi stage plot. Or more comically killed indirectly by what amounts to a magic water balloon.
This is extremely creative and well done. Bravo ;)
I used to play TTRPGs a lot but i have long since given up, i now just stick to video games. I find it contradictory to say "Choose any method to deal with your problems" except when they choose to be murderhobos, because why should they be allowed to choose to be murderhobos. You can't have it both ways. Also you can't choose any method because the GM and the plot demand they all work together including the chaotic evil elf rogue and the lawful good human paladin and have to work together as a team. That and no one can choose to say go left and another go right and some turn around and go back at the fork in the road, because they have to all move together as a team and of course the GM has full control over the story and the plot always comes before the characters, which is most TTRPG and D&D in a nutshell.
Basically the problem i have is the idea of the GM forcing your players to play in a certain way because they doesn't like the way players choose to be murderhobos and decide it's ok to force what they deem appropriate way for them to behave in said fictional world. Another problem i have with this is not only the double standard of claiming how TTRPGs are so great because they allow players to chose how they interact with the imaginary in-game universe while at the same time limiting what a player can do in said in-game universe by taking away player agency and having a GM control the plot and the players can do nothing really but go along with it. Choo choo. I believe the GMs role should be limited to being a referee and worldbuilder but nothing more, if someone can't handle the responsibility of being a facilitator and put their responsibility of creating a world for players to have fun in and enjoy playing in then they shouldn't be a GM.
The original murderhobos were a response to a persistent DM behavior:
In classic AD&D you were encouraged to give your characters a family, but a common DM practice was to have a villain kidnap said family. So the original murderhobos were characters with no ties for the DM to hold hostage.
best response to that is having a family you hate, say an evil royal family that you want nothing to do with so you change your name and flee the city to become an adventurer or whatever. That's my plan at least for when i get to play, yaknow just in case i get stuck with a DM who acts like that
That's one solution... I guess?! But what I do? As a DM every so often I give them what they want! In several of the campaign sessions, I make it be a murder hobo session, where after 3 or 4 regular sessions, the PC's/players can do anything to get their blood-lust and back-stab out of their system, and it has no effect on the campaign, and won't derail it.
I make it so it's like "The Purge", "Bloodsport", and "Fight Club" all rolled into one, where they can literally do and kill anything with impunity. I actually got the idea from watching a Star Trek TOS episode: "Return of the Archons" where the people of Archon are reserved law abiding citizens of god Landru, and "of the body", until the purging hour comes, and they get to be maniacs for 12 hours, but then must resume their puritan lives when done. If you let them be murder-hobo's with fun... they won't do it to derail a campaign. We had "killer sessions" (pun intended) and so much fun and laughing on those nights, and they were much more focused and "normal" in the regular parts of the campaign sessions.
Give em a little of what they want... Just a thought and suggestion.
Happens SOOO much with my friend (cant say name) he is really new so I dont punish him so hard
Sounds like he needs to meet a certain baker you mentioned
@@mme.veronica735 same guy different campaign
You need to fix him
Would anyone else have cast mage hand to try to grab the sword after the decapitation?
In my first game, the Dm threw an archer at me and playing a support oriented Warlock this was expected to be a big deal...
Until I drew their quiver and scattered it to the ground with Mage Hand.
The poor archer ran for his life when the paladin finished his own engagement on the next turn. Time to weaponise the Command "Halt".
Im assuming mage hand's weight restriction wouldnt allow plus it moves slowly anyways.
I’m in my first campaign and our group is murder hobos. The DM tried to use a very high level NPC to stop us. We somehow survived and killed that NPC and we gained a nice sword lol
This is basically the party with my secondary antagonist, except a bunch of them actually got along with the chaos monk.
How to beat the murder hobo out of your players
It was the legend of the grave of three kings, right?
Tomb of three monarchs. Pretty close.
Murderhoboism is the foundation of old school rpg.
This inspired me to make an NPC following this concept, but instead of a monk, it’s a battle master who has a stupid OP weapon. Said weapon can’t be obtained even if they do manage to defeat him, as if they somehow managed to do so, killing them would destroy the blade. What does the weapon do? Well, adds an additional number to critical success, remove any chance of critical failure, +5 to Str, Dex, AND Con. The blade is made by all the regular races.
Ore from the deepest mines of the dwarves, wood chosen by the elves, said wood carved into the glorious handle by the delicate hands of a halfling, the forge stoked with the flaming breath of a Dragonborn, the magical power infused by a gnome, a half-orc pounded the blade into shape, the tiefling handled the burning metal, lastly the human put it together, and offered as prize in a tournament, being won by an asimar. The bastard who you find with it is NOT an asimar. A human, no more than an average bandit to the untrained eye, and anyone who fails to recognize their danger? Well, let’s hope that they manage to survive the first swing.
lol. Those who have watched anime know that story well.
yay! D&D Story
Definitely my favorite episode of yours. Great inspiration for my own GMing. Keep up the good work.
My favorite character to make for an anti-murder hobo is a bladesinger (wizard archetype) monk hybrid. The thing about this particular one, is that they're part of an ancient elven warrior class, that gets sequestered for a hundred years, to then spend a year training, and reading from the tomes and manuals that increase your ability scores.
So you can easily give this unarmed, and unarmored elf an AC of 25 (DEX, WIS, and INT each at 20 would add 5 each to his/her AC), or be a dick and give them 30 in DEX, WIS, and INT, (40 AC), bracers of defense (42), two staves of power (both give a +2 to AC and attacks, as well as saving throws, spell DC, and spell attacks, bringing us to 46 AC, BUT, in order to dual wield non-light weapons like staves, he needs the Dual Wielder feat, so that's actually 47 AC) a displacement cloak (disadvantage on all attacks against the anti-murder hobo, or AMH for short), and boots of flight, so that he has a flying speed equal to his walking speed. Which, with 18 levels in monk as a high elf, means he has 60 feet of movement (70 while bladesinging), while being able to fly. Due to his high levels in monk, he is proficient in all saving throws, and as a shadow monk, can teleport to disengage, but where's the fun in that? Why not take the mobile feat for another 10 feet of movement? And since he has two more feats to choose, let's give him Elven Accuracy, so that whenever he has advantage on an attack using DEX, INT, WIS, or CHA, he can reroll one of the dice once. So essentially triple advantage. But, remember, he's a monk, so he can stunning strike, and give himself advantage. For just 1 ki point. And he doesn't have to sacrifice a normal attack to do so. Oh, and if you decide to try to force a DEX save for some dumb reason, he has evasion. So you can't just wear him down with half damage on saves from fireballs. And finally, just to be a dick, let's give him lucky.
So, you have a flying monk that cannot be hit, who starts break dancing and because of that you simply cannot hit him, even more so than before. And meanwhile, he has a +18 to hit, and can attack 3 times a turn, rolling 1d10+12 each time he hits, and when he hits, he can stun you so that every attack until the end of his *next* turn has advantage, at which point he can then roll three times to attack, meaning nat 1's to save you are extremely unlikely, meaning that you *have* to have an AC of 20 or higher to have a single chance that he misses, assuming he doesn't hit the unlucky jackpot of 1/8000 odds of rolling 3 nat 1's, and instead gets a nat 2 on just one of them. But even then he has three uses of lucky, which he can use to roll a *4th* time. And if he needs to, he can teleport 60 into a shadow. As a bonus action. For free. Or he could hit you with booming blade instead of 3 attacks, in order to deal 1d10+18+3d8, and an additional 4d8 if you move, since he still has two levels in wizard, after all. And add in that he can fly at 80 feet per turn.
Bonus points if you make him a relatively unassuming looking old man, who is generous and gives them plenty of goodies. Good players will never find out just how horrifying he is. Murder hobos, or anyone who makes an enemy of him however, will not have the chance to make the same mistake twice.
If I'm not wrong the story is based on gan jiang and mo ye
My players ended up taking an especial npc and turning him into a slave by carving there names in his back
Look, there are two causes of murderhoboism: DMs failing to give their players reasons to invest in the game world and players who are arseholes.
In the first case, there are things a DM can actually do. Give low-level PCs a mentor/employer figure. Give them a home base. Present them with trustworthy NPCs. In short, give them reasons to emotionally invest in the game world and don't punish them for doing so.
In the second case, don't run games for arseholes. If it's one player, warn them then boot them. If it's the entire group, warn them then stop running games for them.
All of which assumes that you find murderhoboism to be a problem. If you find the players' antics hilarious, just keep throwing opportunities to murder at them. Just don't bother to invest time in making your game world make sense. Funhouse dungeons - or one huge funhouse dungeon - are the way to go. Look at it as an opportunity to sharpen your skills for the day when you find a group that wants to play a deeper game.
But if creating an emergent story out of in-game play is what you want out of the time that you are investing into the game, you need to talk to your players, listen to what kind of game would engage them, set expectations and call people on their bullshit.
@@Badartist888
I'd actually put that under the first one.
Consequences - both good and bad - are _vital_ to player investment. Ultimately, RPGs are about choices, and a choice with no consequence isn't really a choice.
Take consequences out of your game and you'll get otherwise good players flailing wildly at the game world trying _desperately_ to have some kind of impact on it.
I liken it to a dog scratching all it's fur off trying to get to a flea.
My last fix was having one of the murder hobos get abducted and tortured and experimented on until... they accidentally gave him max INT (This fit with one of the subplots of the game). Long story short the head murder hobo was a skilled role player and returned to the party having to see his past actions again with this new perspective. He ended up making peace, apologizing to all the surviving NPC’s and killing his character at the end ‘heroically’ to save his murderous pals. Somehow it worked and my current group is building a huge army this game and barely murdering innocent people anymore.
Thank for making great videos!
My friend who introduced me to dnd might have made a nice little leash on my newly made high elven eldritch knight by just getting stomped on the tutorial mission my and his human warlock had
We only gained exp and woke up in the cult's quarters with bandages and aches all over
So it is a clear warning that if i as the newbie start any funny business the fiend of the warlock will surely kill my character
This fiend is a bit of a chaotic troll
One time the entire party got trapped in a castle by an adult red dragon since dm's warlock accidentally used burning hands
Which alerted the said dragon
So as a funny last minute save the fiend commited a deus ex machina by warping to our party's location
Flicked his fingers to cast THREE meteor swarms
The adult dragon was non existent
So yeah
If i step out of line
My character dies by this scary fiend
Good thing i had rp experience before dnd for me to be at my best behavior that my dm was kind enough to make this leash off of my pcs by making that op fiend go into hiding because the fiend was ironically the one who stepped out of line
So dm's warlock cant go up anymore and somehow multiclassed into a shadow monk
The rest of our characters are a dragonborn devotion paladin
And a wood elven thief rouge
Don’t stop thinking please 回来. Your videos are by far the best DnD on RUclips
Bard: rolls a 1 to persuade to lower the selling price
Barbarian: whelp we tried your way
Hope everything is alright.
The story sounds like the one from Ushio and Tora (great manga btw).
edit: spelling
Cheap rusty murder stick is going to be my go to phrase for description now
For my first campaign I ever hosted I think I accidentally stumbled into this style of showing the players how bad it is before they even try it.
Nice vid