*HEY* Couple things: -This video is a reupload from yesterday. I'm reuploading it because Google Ads wouldn't let me run my ads for the video because of cursing, so I censored the curse words and reuploaded the video. As for the video itself: -I forgot to mention this, but this video is focusing on Morgana in Persona 5 and in Royal. Not in Strikers or the Dancing games. -Also, after looking into it, I noticed that some of my criticisms of Haru's wasted development are, in fact, elaborated on in her confidant, such as the interim CEO and how the game wants you to believe that there'd be no weight on her shoulders. I still stand by the fact that her development should've been given more attention in the base game, like with every other party member, but there was still some stuff that I overlooked, and that's on me for not finishing her confidant during my playthrough. Regardless, NO MOSS WILL SLOW ME DOWN!
Ryuji gets shit on by Morgana for 4 months but he throws a fit the second Ryuji punches back one time, also he gets mad at the party for following the rule he made about not going after a target unless everyone is on board
@@Jdudec367He did, and even if he didn’t, how the hell would Ryuji know that? “Oh, he’s dealing with an identity crisis and that gives him an excuse to be a dick”, NO. He’s been shitting on Ryuji since day 1. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out
you don't have to like kawakami, but let's be honest here. she's the reason why you are going to 100% the game when you call her for a massage after exiting mementos or palace
@@dataroaming7512 Who does your laundry ? Who does your infiltration tools ? Who does your coffee ? Who does your curry ? Who gives you a massage so you can go out at night ? The thing that other girls or other confidants did for you was nothing compared to her. Hell, you can even bang all the girls because you can go out at night while she does all those thing. Still useless ? Look into your mirror and ask that mirror whether you can do those things.
Morgana: RYUJI! YOUR MOTIVATIONS FOR JOINING THE PHANTOM THIEVES ARE SHALLOW AND SELFISH!!! Ryuji's Motivation: I was taken advantage of by an abusive authority figure and felt helpless to stop it. I want to give courage to others so that they don't feel like I did. Morgana"s Motivation: Me like pretty girl, but she no like me back. I pretend to go along with social reform plan to force them to explore a place that otherwise would have little interest to them. Once we reach bottom, me become human and pretty girl become all mine!
he...never said that though, he just said that he is currently being shallow and selfish which he was right which Ryuji himself later admitted. Also that isn't Morgana's motivation, his is to see what his past really is, he doesn't force them to explore places at all and he does genuinely want social reform. That isn't his plan at all.
@Jayden C sure but the way Morgana makes Ryuji seem is as a useless pathetic person who's only part of the thieves for selfish reasons because he wants to pick up chick's..... But Morgana constantly tries to flirt with Ann, says he'll marry her when he becomes human and constantly calls Ryuji useless. When Ryuji calls him useless once he whines like a baby and takes ages to get over it He's a hypocrite
Oh yeah, Teddies voice grated a bit, he was an absolute creep, and a bit annoying but there were times when I genuinely laughed at his antics. Morgana has nothing redeeming about him and his unpleasantness to Ryuji got old fast and the way he completely took over Harus introduction and made it about him was frustrating
I hated teddie at the start of P4 but he grew on me by the end. And I kinda just overlook the pervyness as bad Japanese humor. And besides yuske is just as pervy as Teddie he’s just not so blatant about it
After we got Yusuke, I basically stopped using Morgana. The only time I used him was in the Mementos Palace and that was because he was the only character with a second awakening. Hey, it was my first time playing playing Persona!
Lmao, I didn’t like Yusuke at first but after morgana invited him to stay at my place without asking me….. bruh, I was like this “I am so mfk tired of this stupid cat trying to tell me what to do lmao 🤣”plus I hate that he gives my boy, sakamoto so much shit.
Morgana is the worst. You have to spend every waking moment with this thin-skinned, arrogant douchebag cat who never shuts up. I never fully forgave him for walking away from the team and picking sides with Haru either. Felt like a betrayal to the whole group and Joker in particular, who was stuck with the burden of feeding and sheltering Morgana's useless ass.
I agree but I wouldn’t call him useless since he can literally turn into a car just annoying as all hell The way he tells the player what we can and can’t do so he’s basically doing a better job than the law at making the player’s life chained and linear, always bullying skull over anything and acting like the leader when he’s not Most the time I just wanna shoot the annoying thing
Bro I tried using every party member in the last boss in p5r but EVERY TIME I SWITCH HIM IN HE DIES and the way he took screen time from HARU IN THE PLACE ABOUT THATS ABOUT HER DAD just pisses me off and I hate him so much because makoto gets a scene futaba gets a scene fucking CROW gets one but nooo haru ain’t shit
I can see the value in Morgana's character as it is actually very flawed and, well, human. I think what just crosses the line with me is when he walks from the team and nearly runs Joker over. The disregard for the safety of the only dude that has had your back despite your petty behavior, thats just unforgivable in my eyes.
I don't know why but I really like morgana, like, I grew attatched to him and always kept him in the party during the whole game, and now I don't want to take him off the party
Honestly, Morgana sucking in fights wasn't really a huge "shock" for me, because as soon as I got Makoto that had Energy Drop and Mediarama, I instantly replaced him with her
Morgana sucks thanks to the lack of versatility that makoto fills in better in a game where adapting to resistances is key. Though morgana is a good pick for early game since most enemies are still weak to wind for the most part.. but once you start going into Sae's palace and the later he becomes pretty obsolete. Its like white mage and red mage in final fantasy, except here there is s clear favouritism for adaptability than efficacy. You dont need a lot of healing to get the job done just good dps and a back up.
@@endlessazure2142 No he doesn't suck as he is still the best healer and is great for getting treasure demons. Not really he is sitll useful. No there isn't a clear favoritism. Nah good healing can matter too.
I don't know as soon as Makoto and even Better healing Items came up later in the game, he's pretty weak late game by comparison in my opinion.@@Jdudec367
I think it was a poor decision to have Morgana's insecurities come from becoming useless as a navigator. On my first play through, he was in my party for THE WHOLE GAME. Totally ruined my immersion since, gameplay wise, he was one of the only dudes who were actually fighting. Despite this, he claims to feel useless because Futaba replaced him. That arc depended too much on the player NOT using Morgana in their party. Forced my guy Ryuji to apologize -_- I really liked the game, but I've disliked a lot of Persona 5's writing decisions for a long time, cool to see someone spread my exact sentiments on this Walmart Teddie. Nice vid!
To be fair, it wasn't so much Mona being replaced as a navigator as it was him losing most of his other roles on the team. Makoto replaced so many of his roles in combat to where most players would replace him with Makoto at that point in time, not to mention that she took over as the team's strategist. It was *also* Futaba replacing him completely as a navigator that made him feel down, too. Whether he's in your party at all times or not, he was still gradually losing his value on the team, especially now that everyone knew everything about the metaverse and how it works. People like Ryuji were also commenting frequently on how Morgana was becoming less and less useful to the team. Furthermore, his nightmares kept happening to him, nobody would listen to him when he tried to let out his feelings, and as his insecurities about being a cat got worse, Ryuji kept calling him one over and over, in full awareness of how much it hurts him. All of this piled up until Morgana couldn't take it anymore and he acted out on his strong emotions. It wasn't just one or two things leading up to his outburst, it was a bunch of things. Ryuji calling him useless in the one time where he felt as such was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
@@Alex-uq1elIt would've been better, if it happened during a time period, where only *one* member was left out of the party. Even better if you would've been forced to leave out Morgana... But that wasn't the case, plus at that point, every member was still useful on their own. When Makoto appeared, *two* members had to be left out of a party. So the second member could've also been a whiny mf like Morgana, especially since Joker could pretty much replace everyone's Persona. Yet, no one really complained except Morgana. And that's what made him so annoying at this part.
Honestly this was a really thought out video i enjoyed it a lot! Pretty much everything you said is how i feel about Morgana since P5 came out It's really sad Haru gets robbed of her character development and thrown her to the side not giving much of anything until Persona 5 Strikers where Haru finally gets the love and respect she rightfully deserves even though it took a year in game for us to get that not a good look Speaking of P5S I might be the only one who thinks this and it's just my opinion but I really think Sophia aka Sophie is a way better character than Morgana himself her arc in the game felt like it matter she's has gone from not understanding what the human heart is to completely understanding how important the heart truly is she wanted to set a path for herself to feel needed and make her teammates proud never once i ever felt her story was rush or boring not to mention her love for the Phantom Thieves is just wholesome no two ways about it she doesn't be little anyone or calls someone useless like Ryuji or uses anybody for her own personal gain like Joker or Haru or creeply obsess with somebody like Ann (Which by the by i really hate it and it reminds me of Teddie) she genuinely wants to help people especially those who lost their way and she accepts herself for who she is! I can go on about her she's that great I can't imagine P5S without Sophia if Atlus made her the mascot of Persona 5 i wouldn't mind that.
At first I thought Morgana was an ok character, after okumura however, that changed drastically. He cycles through the same 2 stages being a simp or a filler, then decides to drop a massive bombshell that just negates any progress he made as a character in 4 in game days. The disappointment I had when he came back on Christmas after Yaldabaoth 💀💀💀 And also basically stealing Haru’s entire development was the final nail in the coffin for me
Requesting that Atlus update the game to replace all of Mprgana's lines with Garfield quotes. I would rather endure a million lasagna jokes before listening to that dork's lame banter again
the only thing that i liked about morgana's characterization is how he actually called out the thieves's bullshit when they were all acting pathetic about pursuing okumura. he was always the stubborn one in the group, and he wasn't exactly wrong with this.
After watching this I can see why most people hate Morgana (he's still one of my favourite characters) but the "stealing Haru's arc" thing isn't fully his fault because (and I'm not trying to reference a meme) even if that's the case it wouldn't be the first time Persona completed one characters arc after starting another one but Haru is just.....there..... for the rest of the game. She could have had more dialogue when the thieves confronted Akechi during Shido's Palace or when they teamed up with him during Maruki's Palace but because she didn't Morgana is getting hate that she should get.
This is actually a really good point. With all of the characters having something to say during the characters' arcs, Haru not being one of them does seem like it's more her fault for not saying anything. Unlike Morgana, she isn't trying to be secretive or anything.
I disagree. It has happened in p4 when Rise ended up sharing her dungeon with Teddie, but the way it was handled was completely different; all the build up to the dungeon, the dungeon itself was centered on her. She got her character arc wrapped up exactly the same as the other characters. She got no less focus than the others, the only difference was Teddie came immediately after. Meanwhile, in her case a lot of the build up arc focused on Morgana and his issues with hers taking a backseat; even the boss fight with her father was made just about as much about him and she ‘fully awakened’ there but she discovered the tv world and persons off screen. It has been done before, but the Chie/Yukiko, Teddie/Rise dungeons were much earlier on. There were a lot more story events to give them attention I also agree she didn’t do much after it was done which I think in part is to do with the fact (a) she was introduced too late (b) she is just a sweet rich girl with a sweet father.
@@aikikaname6508 1st of all Haru isn't as sweet as some people think, 2nd of all her father isn't sweet (not counting Maruki's reality), 3rd of all You're right about the whole thing with Rise but even if Teddie had ruined her arc it would have been forgiven after Persona 4 Ultimax happened (because she was more important in that game then half of her team) just like "Morgana ruining Haru's arc" would be forgiven if she wasn't just....there....even in Persona 5 Strikers, instead even when her arc continued in that game she didn't get as much focus as she could've and that had nothing to do with Morgana and I bring that up partly because Strikers went out of it's way to put focus on the less important Phantom Thieves and Haru's arc still sucks even without Morgana being important to it.
@@JonathanFrostathan honestly i think it might be the worst dungeon over all anyways. the only buildup was them constantly shoving the big bad being suspicious in your face. no real screen time until you are IN the dungeon and i dont care enough to use morgana as a reason to explore. Hes annoying and is literally not important enough to me for me to enjoy the dungeon just to find him.
Hard agree. Bro cant even handle a single insult from saint ryuji. My least favorite part of the series is when he stole the spotlight from Haru (IN HER OWN FATHER'S PALACE) for some basic "friendship is power" bs. My autistic CEO wife deserves better than that smdh
About the 3rd semester comments, did you not go around for an entire week exploring what marukis reality was like? You visibly see the differences in the characters lives and not only that you also hear about how some of the minor characters have changed like how the angry cynical teacher is now one of the most cheerful people in the school or the student who switched his passion because that's what maruki thought was best for him. You literially see just how different life is in marukis reality
Oh, he's one of those critics that has to ignore details and information just to put out the "P5R isn't an amazibg game!". P5R isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you have to omit and misrepresent the game, it comes off as disingenuous.
Yeah, that's my bad. I forgot about the thing with the teacher and I ignored the other details within the third semester. I think I was getting at something related to the party members, but I'll still take the L on this one.
@@JonathanFrostathan Hey, it's good you admitted your mistake. Apologies for the hostility! I think 3rd Semester is peak fiction, but I do think it could benefit with some minor alterations and additions.
When he left the phantom thieves I was hoping he wouldn’t come back, how’s this watermelon headass cat with identity issues gonna tell me when to go to bed or not?! I swear to god he’s more annoying than Mishima.
i still stand by the idea that they should've made Hifumi the Navigator instead of Futaba. The fact the shogi player who makes perfect sense as a navi was passed up for the gamer girl shut in baffles me. Not only that, it could've opened more doors with Yusuke having someone he'd be chummy with at his own school since he's a loner at his own school and outside the phantom thieves... let alone the fact when he's with the thieves he's not exactly all that chummy with the ones that aren't joker and after joker leaves, he's no longer bound to the group. When you sit down and think about it, Yusuke has absolutely no reason to hang with anyone but Joker.
I think my biggest gripe with morgana during okumura is *why* he's feeling useless. I honestly never got why he was having these sudden doubts about himself when he's shown his worth as a teammate FAR more then he ever has as a navigator. Like... Come on man, you've literally saved the phantom thieves like twice from certain death at this point. I'm pretty sure they're more in your debt than you'd think. Why do you care so much that you aren't a navigator anymore when you're a good teammate? Also mementos is unbearable enough as it is, if he wasn't there I'd hate it more than i already do. As for most of the other stuff, it didn't bother me all that much, his interactions with ryuji were a bit grating but i didn't find them that bad, felt more like a back and fourth between them. Kinda like how Trevor Belmont and alucard interacted with each other. (Though i haven't watched castlevanina in a while so maybe that's just me) His simping for ann never got to me either when he talks about her during the story like, maybe 8 times at most. Felt more like a silly crush he had for a girl who was way out of his league lol. Combat wise he's okay, i wasn't playing on the highest difficulty so i didn't have too many problems with managing his health, and as such i felt i didn't need to bench him like i didn't bench ryuji. All in all, morgana is an alright character in my opinion, I've delt with far worse characters so honestly it felt more like a relief when he wasn't as bad as i thought he was gonna be. This is still a good video and it has good points, he does feel like a character they could have done wayyyy more with, especially in royal and it's third semester, but it feels like he gets shafted very frequently.
Ya know, Makoto does a similar thing with the pointless talking. Most of her lines in palaces amount to stating the obvious, she's probably my 2nd least favorite phantom thief. I didn't completely hate Morgana but I don't really like the guy either
Makoto is one of my favourites but she had an amazing introduction but then sorta faded into the background. I actually think Makoto and Harus order you find them should have been switched. Haru is sweet, but she’s introduced last minute, her personality and overall relevance to the story is minimal. Makoto, however, is introduced early on, has a role to the gang before being a phatom thief and is related to Sae, and takes a sort of leadership role like Naoto did in P4. She had enough going for her in plot relevance and character wise she wouldn’t suffer for the late introduction. And if her social link only was available late in the game and has a smaller window when players could begin it, maybe it could be more focused on her and Sae and the investigation. I think her character would have suffered less from a late intro
What’s strange too is that I would’ve thought that maybe the phantom thieves would’ve made a point to Morgana that he doesn’t have to be constantly “useful” to have a place in their group. Their relationship by the time that he has his tantrum is beyond quid pro quo.
1:47 Kasumire's situation is twice as goofy as Haru's considering she shows up a TON in unskippable cutscenes and yet she STILL ends up underdeveloped.
Hey Jon, just wanted to let you know you are a legend within a certain community on reddit that has a dislike for Morgana. Your video sums up everything that is wrong with the character, and how he could have been written better.
You know, I like Morgana.... I like him as a party member, as a friend, I really did feel bad when he dicided to leave the team, I found him oddly charmind, I mean... Sure, he's arrogant and a bit dumb, but that's how Japanese people write mascot characters, whatever. I think Teddie is a bit worse on that front. He is still an abuse victim that acts selfish and irrational because he's been pushed against the wall...... I mean...... It's kinda funny how people hate Mishima and Mona for the exact same reasons they like Futaba and Kasumi. Oh well, I guess if you're not a gamer waifu pandering to otaku who hides behind the MC like a knight, or a cute highschool athlete who worships your every step, you're not allowed to have feelings.
Ironically I ACTUALLY have polar opposite opinion. I love Morgana and hate Makoto and Futaba. When Makoto joins she IMMEDIATELY gets slotted into the party by default, bosses everyone aroud and everyone obeys while ignoring the fact that she NOT ONLY BLACKMAILED PT BUT ALSO ALMOST GOT THEM KILLED! by going to Kaneshiro. If people give shit to Morgana for feeling useless and runing away well why aren't they giving shit to Makoto for doing the same while having DEADLY consequences for the team? Oh and Futaba also blackmails PT, yet everyone is cool with it and I can't even bring it up let alone kick them out. When I play games I tend to associate myself with the protagonist and wonder what I would have done and honestly I would not have let Makoto and Futaba off the hook because they threatened not only my freedom, safety and given the state of police force possibly life, but my friends too, plus if they did it once what stops them from doing so again when it will suite them? On my first run I legit thought one of them if not both were the traitor. What I would have done is after their respective Palaces I would have kicked them out of the group and if the others intervened asking me tp reconsider I would have left myself cause only an idiot stays on the sinking ship and I would have also went to Igor to ask him to remove meta-nav from Makoto's and Futaba's devices or the entire team if need be. Would that have worked? Probably not, but I would at least try or create another strategy. Seeing Morgana having issues with Makoto, Futaba and Ryuji (who's big mouth and idiocy even got us into this mess) and leaving... well I empathized and was glad cause MC was just a yes man doormat.
Mind you, I only played Royal and Strikers, but Morgana never forced me to go to bed. I like Morgana. Also, he's the only user of salvation unless you spend a million yen in the black market. I'm kind of baffled people are passionate enough to vehemently hate Morgana. He might be a bit underbaked in the grand scheme of things, and his bashing of Ryuji is uncalled for, but I'm glad he sticks around us.
Everyone was mean to Ryuji. I liked Morgana. It did take me a minute to wrap my mind around the fact that this character that has a female name and is voiced by a female actress is actually male. But once my brain adjusted to that, I came to really like the character. Morgana made me laugh more than any of the other characters. Yusuke was a pretentious douche.
Yeah, they fixed the go to bed problem completely in Royal. They let you do activities those nights and the amount of free time you have is much more lenient. I never ran into issues in Royal, only the base game. A big problem is they replaced essentially the narration voice with Morgana, which doesn’t quite work because instead of it being an internal monologue from protag telling them to rest for the night, it becomes an actual character turned into an obstacle who is preventing you the player from doing what you want. He also tells you stuff like you don’t like crepes, which is weird because why does he decide what you want? Putting the exposition/game narration into a character is a choice that means you need to make really sure their input isn’t invasive, restrictive or annoying. Because if you bog down the player with restrictions or pointless tutorials the player has a face to pin it on. Look at Navi. She had a nice design and her character was fine, but because they made her voice redundant info and the voice that blocks off game areas, she’s now infamous. Meanwhile, the exposition in TP was much less intrusive so Midna didn’t get hate for that
wow 2 years since you did this and I finally got the amount of social points to ask a friend for his ps3 and be able to play persona 5, I really love the game and I feel bad not finding more people who speak Spanish who have the same opinion, Morgana is the worst virtual atrocity I have ever seen in my life, I want to go down and pee "Hey, don't do that, you should go to sleep." I want to exercise, watch TV, compare something, see something in a store "Hey no, I don't like that and my word is absolute" Joker has the same expressiveness as a stone but he has something that makes him more noticeable than Morgana, when I get to Futaba and see that she replaces Morgana as navigator and in that damn text box that reminds me that I'm alive or that For some reason I disabled Ryuji's automatic breathing, "Skull, you're pathetic" is what the dirty cat tells me who likes a minor in a latex suit and who looks like a dominatrix with a toothed whip
I get hate every time I say this, but morgana is the reason P5R is my least favorite persona game (still a good game but like P1, P3F, P4G more (haven't played P2)). He is the worst supporting character of all time I hate him so much; I want to punt him like a football. The only reason I don't feel like replaying P5R.
even worse then navi and omochao i dont think so nobody says ocarina of time is there least liked zelda because of navi ocarina of time also has that stupid owl Kaepora Gaebora whos even worse navi at least has a few useful stuff like telling you where wallmasters are i hate that stupid owl who shows up everywhere and says useless stuff you cant skip and even says must i say it again NO THANK YOU WE ARE NOT STUPID dont you dare say its the worst zelda just because of these two the true worst zelda game is zelda 2 gameplay not like the others and way to hard before you say i suck it IS TO HARD i have beat megaman games so i dont suck persona 5 is not the worst if you say that then say ocarina of time is the worst because of navi
@@anastasiawinters4455 I still hate P5 because of morgana. Haven't ever beat a zelda game, but I like all the ones I played but BOTW. I've put some hours into OOT, MM, Zelda 1, BOTW, and TP. And from what I've played of OOT Navi didn't run away and get itself into trouble making you and your team chase after it to save it. I just can't enjoy P5, Morgana just sucks every bit of fun out of the game for me. P1 is definitely my favorite, so I guess I'm kind of biased and I don't really like any of the supporting characters but Teddy was alright.
@@BabyVegeta03Annoying or poorly written characters can really drag a story down. Maybe if Morgana was less hypocritical and insecure he'd be tolerable. I'd love a mascot character that, while cute and funny, can still be responsible and levelheaded. But instead we get a thin-skinned, ungrateful character who clearly has no respect for his friends. It sucks because he could have been so much better, even without changing his character entirely.
I came here to watch something while I was Fast Forwarding through his Week Long Useless Freakout. Video ended just as the Mission Start popped up where I could finally go out during the day again. 9/19 BTW
The only time I used morgana was when I didn't have yusuke and in okumura's palace, because I accidentally deleted freila on makoto and the wind weakness of the most common robot.
Not watching the full video yet or scrolling in the comments because of spoilers, but I just had the post trip/pre palace lockdown around Morgana and it was even more annoying not being able to have any free time because of it. Deserved the punt.
how can morgana even compare to aigis and, to a much lesser extent, teddie? like, aigis is an extremely well written and well liked character, while Morgana... Well?
This was an ad. Nice. Plus, i dont know why people keep using spoilers for games that been out for 1 year or so. Like, is it okay to see it as spoilers-free? Im just wondering. Also, I did play Royal.
I feel like if I didn't Persona fans would rave at me for not putting up a spoiler warning. Plus I like to be considerate for people that haven't finished the game and might not want to be spoiled by video essays like mine. I get what you're saying, though.
My relationship with Morgana during my P5R has been... Interesting. Gameplay-wise, he has the Garu-line of spells and healing. Former is cheaper to cast, the latter is always useful. And his physical skills have a high chance to cause crits, which, in Persona, is an automatic One More. There are builds to make Morgana work post Madarame, but there is no obligation to have him with you when you heal from the menu. However, story-wise... I agree with you, 100%. What's more, he came up with the idea that the whole of PT has to agree on a target before going after them. Which becomes relevant against Okumura, since at the time, it's the people of the Phan-site that wants them to go after Okumura, and they don't all agree to target him just because people want them to. That's when he leaves, meets Haru, and from there they conveniently gain more reasons to go after him, alongside an obligation to. The plot literally happened because of his tantrum. Also, after the reveal that he is a cat not because of a curse, but because that's how he was made, he made peace with being a cat... Until the third semester where he wants to be human because it would attract feminine attention... I like him gameplay-wise (if you're using melee attacks with someone who's clearly made to be a MAGICIAN, you're off your rocker), but story-wise I roll my eyes when he's involved. At least he is less of a simp than Teddie.
So i know this is a reupload but like in the beginning you said you don't like Ohya. Why's that lol. Lots of people don't so i feel like I'm the only one that does. She's not my favorite (Ann is) but y'know
Ohya is bland at her best and repulsive at her worst, but it's mostly just the whole thing with the fake relationship between the teenage boy and the woman in her mid-20s. That's gonna leave a sting no matter who you are. It's similar to how I feel about Kawakami, but for some reason people like being "hot for teacher" I guess.
@Frank Marano I disagree. Like yeah she might not be the best character in the game. I feel like most people don't like her cause her confidant abilities aren't good so they just drop her. But her story is really good. Plus the bonus story scenes if you max out your confidants. It shows Ohya finding the person Joker's incident happened with to prove his innocence after getting re-arrested. And they say she's worst girl
Morgana has always felt to me like another go at a Yukari-esque character, someone who isn't particularly likeable or pleasant, but has their redeeming moments. Yet, it just doesn't work with Morgana. It could be because 5 in general is terrified of addressing that its leads can be downright awful at points, which leads to the odd experience of them exhibiting some extremely cruel, irritating or just plain unlikeable traits, without it ever properly being acknowledged or used to the story's advantage. It feels like it wants to mix the moral ambiguity of 3's cast with the happy-go-lucky and chill nature of 4's, and the result just wasn't as great as it could have been. Morgana is just the most obvious example of it because of his screen time and consistent plot relevance.
Totally! Leaving out his obviously annoying lecture reading throughout the game, Morgana is archetypical tutorial character and his alienated backstory makes no goddamn sense. Doesn't feel relatable...
I've played honestly replayed Persona 5 Royal so many times I've lost count. Hell, as I'm writing this comment, I literally have the game open on my Switch right now. And honestly, some of these opinions of Morgana actually mirror my own. Keyword: some. Yes, Morgana stole the spotlight from Haru. Yes, Morgana's whole arc of "running away because he felt useless" could've been handled WAAAY better. Storywise, Morgana isn't handled very well. However, I always have him in my party for one reason: when it comes to combat, he RULES. His slingshot can do some decent damage to a single foe (even ones resistant to Gun attacks!), when paired with Ryuji's "Insta-kill" ability from his Confidant, makes going through Mementos a _cakewalk,_ and his Pickpocket skill has honestly gotten me some good healing items when I needed them by simply attacking enemies! Yes, his story arc could've been handled _much_ better. But his abilities in battle have saved my ass on multiple occasions. I understand these are simply opinions at the end of the day, but this video was really well-done and definitely showed how the little bedtime-enforcing kitten wasn't done the best way.
Newbie for Pesona 5 i kept hearing bad things about Morgana and even worse than Teddie. I thought Mona is just bland and a bit irritating at most, but he is servicable compared to Teddie so far... ...and then i get into the leaving part and *holy shit* it's soo damn childish and petty that it almost fucked up PT's operation and then goes against their agreement. And when he got back it felt extremely shallow and i did not felt a thing but more frustated, and the fact that this entire situation cost Haru's character moment?? like holy shit this is *BAD* *BAD* Teddie might be annoying and... well a creep, but his leaving doesn't cause a disturbence with the Investigation Team, and he have a *proper recollection and reflection* moments with Yu and the IT, as much as i really disliked (or even hated Teddie) he has his moment and it's honestly impressive on how they managed to create a touching moment with Teddie. But this?? How did they messed up so badly? The entire Mementos stake out also pissed me off, while i blame it partially on Ryuji for being stupidly reckless for the entire game. Mona is still as guilty because he literally can tell that everybody wants Mona to go back and clearly wants to make amend but he only focused on Ryuji's recklessness, it's soo painful thing to witness. And the fact he almost ran over Ren and the other PT, like what the fuck man?
See, im on the opposite end here, i love ryuji and pretty much all of the phantom thieves. just not morgana. I was thinking why earlier on and it only recently clicked. He ONLY rags specifically on ryuji. Who is completely undeserving like, almost every single time with a few exceptions. Like when they were arguing before the 5th palace i fully expected a dialog option to tell them to shut up as the leader of the group. But no, nothing. That one dialog option that isnt in the game single handedly ruined morgana and the 5th palace as we got no real buildup to haru or the dungeon because of it. It made no sense to me how two of my closest friends dumped eachother onto the streets over one silly argument initiated by one of them(who was already on my shit list) unfairly. I always thought it made no sense for ryuji wanting girls to be a problem. especially since morgana kept objectifying ann just as bad and in a way i found cringe and annoying that wasn't in ryujis dialog when hes gawking at women in hawaii. Like, ryuji is a boy, just like the rest. why is it a problem only when ryuji does it. and as much as i like ann, i also never use her, almost at all. i dont like her outfit at all, but shes an excellent character. My party without mona, now, is makoto,ryuji and yusuke. Im not a huge makoto guy but shes literally stronger morgana. I only used morgana because i WAS sentimentally attached and looking past the annoying bits as "anime quirkyness". i mean, as much as i love japans works, one piece for instance has sanji, who is my favorite character, and for a time he literally existed to gawk at women. All i thought about that was "ive seen worse" and "i watched hdxd and chivalry of a failed knight, this is normal for their cultures character writing". Then he literally betrayed all of that trust. NO. I do NOT want him in my party anymore. And YES, he IS that annoying to me because of a single scene. theres no amount of cope that can redeem that. it was a betrayal and the fact ryuji has to apologise after this is over is even more infuriating.
One thing you seem to forget to mention which is that thanks to Royal, I get that yeah, they're really just excuses the writers came up with just to have the story remain the same so that fans don't hate them over it, but as a result, it makes Morgana come off as a hypocrite.
@@JonathanFrostathan I don't blame the writers for Royal's lack of additional story, I blame the fanboys for pushing Atlus into becoming hesitant of adding anything to the original story because it's not their fault and we've seen these fanboys hating Atlus purely for new story in remasters like with the two Persona 3 rereleases and Persona 4 Golden. TV Tropes calls this mindset "They Changed It, Now It Sucks".
@@JonathanFrostathan Besides, this isn't the first time we've seen a franchise reach its' downfall (If you can even call it that) based on fan feedback. This same sorta thing happened with the Sonic series and I've heard that it happened with Star Wars too.
@Joe Bashaw I actually have an entire essay regarding my thoughts on Morgana that I tried posting on the P5 Subreddit once, but, of course, the mods couldn't handle a good opinion on le funny simp cat, so they deleted it instantly. I'll post it here instead. Persona... Persona Persona Persona. Persona games are interesting to me. I’ve only played Persona’s 4 and 5 so far, as well as a few spin-offs, but it seem the Persona games all have some sorts of magics to them that cause me to love them so much. Is it the music? Probably. Is it the gameplay? Likely. Is it the characters? Ehh... It’s complicated. Each Persona game has a very unique cast of characters, but each character always seems like either a big hit or a big miss, at least to me. I loved the investigation team, but I hated Teddie. I loved Adachi, but I didn’t like Akechi quite as much. I adored Yusuke, but it’s only just recently that I’ve been able to bring myself to like Makoto. But out of all the Persona characters I’ve gotten to know and either love or hate, one has stood out to me since the moment I got into Persona: Morgana. Now, I’ll start by saying I love cats, so already, I figured I might like Morgana at least a bit going into Persona 5. But I didn’t quite have high expectations for him, either. I’d heard of the fandom and how much they hate Morgana to death, and I thought I might feel the same about him going in. What I got instead surprised me. I loved Morgana. He’s become not only my favourite phantom thief, but my favourite persona character, and one of my favourite characters ever. I love this little guy! So... Why does everyone hate him so much? Well, as someone who’s unfortunately had to bear witness to the toxicity of the Persona fandom just because I don’t want to beat the simp cat to death brutally for no good reason, I think I know the reasons why. I’m going to be talking about the P5 fandom and their hate boners for Morgana, a character who really doesn’t deserve it. I’ll be dividing my thoughts on Morgana into two parts, with a few sections for each part. *WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW.* Part 1: Why the fanbase hates him. Section 1: “Go the fuck to sleep”. This one seems the most obvious to me, it’s been what everyone has bashed him for the most since the very beginning. In each Persona game, you have a very limited number of things you can do in each day. This is, of course, to prevent you from doing multiple social links all in one day, getting buff at the gym, and much more all early into the game, and it’s all really well put together. The games all give you just enough time to where if you’re careful with managing your time, you can do everything you want to do in the game all in one Playthrough. The ways in which the games force the players to sleep are pretty different sometimes, though. I haven’t played Persona 3 yet, but I’m fairly sure Minato/Makoto thinks to himself “I should probably go to sleep, I’m too tired to do this”. The same applies to Yu, and hell, Dojima doesn’t even let you leave the house for the first little while of P4. And before Morgana enters your life, and while he’s temporarily out of it in the Okumura arc, Ren tells himself “I feel too tired. I should go to sleep”. So clearly it’s just a part of the game, right? So when Morgana looks out for you and tells you to go to sleep, you’d think the fandom would think “Aww, that’s cute, he’s looking out for me like a brother”. Well, apparently... No. The fandom actually hates him for doing that, treating him like one big roadblock in their way, and even those who realize it’s just a part of the game still hate that he’s the one to tell you to sleep. Why is it so much worse when it’s him as opposed to the protagonist? Don’t you think you should be appreciating how much he’s caring for Joker’s wellbeing? Little dude’s a bro! Not in the eyes of the fandom, though, for... What ever reason. Section 2: “Mona bad Ryuji good”. Ryuji and Morgana have always had a very clear rivalry of sorts in Persona 5, ever since they first met. Joker and Ryuji first meet Morgana in Kamoshida’s palace, where he’s locked up in a jail cell, begging for their help. He manages to convince them that he’ll help them escape if they set him free, which they do, and when Ryuji mistakenly calls Morgana a cat, Mona asks him not to do so. Now, I understand Ryuji’s panic in that situation, seeing how it was life or death, but if the bizarre little creature saving me and my friend’s life asked me not to call him a certain name, no matter how much he looks like a cat, I would listen to him, because he’s helping me, I should respect his wishes, and because it’s a polite thing to do. What does Ryuji do? He keeps doing it, anyways, even yelling at Morgana to shut up at one point when he’s talking. Obviously, this would have been how Morgana would’ve grown to dislike Ryuji, and why he would’ve begun insulting him. This ended up spiralling into a full rivalry between them, and while Morgana would mostly just use weak playground insults towards Ryuji, Ryuji would still fire back, often aiming where he knew it would hurt Morgana, like calling him a cat frequently. And when Yusuke, Makoto, and Futaba start joining in, Ryuji pokes fun at how Morgana no longer fits in, or how he has very little use to the thieves now. Of course, he didn’t realize how useless Morgana was feeling in that time, but even still, that’s a low-blow, and it’s this combined with all his other negative feelings piling up that lead to Morgana’s outburst and him leaving the phantom thieves during the Okumura arc. Ryuji even fails to give Morgana a proper apology when they meet again in Mementos. And Mona is the bad guy? I can’t even begin to understand where people got the idea that “Mona insulted Ryuji the whole game, but Ryuji insulted him once and he had a tantrum and ran away”. Did people just look the other way whenever Ryuji said or did anything wrong? Could they not bear to see that their innocent Angel wasn’t actually that innocent? Section 3: “Lady Ann...” When Ryuji first awakens his Persona in Kamoshida’s palace, it’s shortly after that Joker, Ryuji, and Morgana see the cognitive Ann Takamaki. The moment Morgana sees her, he’s immediately attached by how gorgeous she looks. Given what would later be revealed to be his role as the embodiment of humanity’s hopes and desires, it makes sense that he would consider a popular model in Japan to be so beautiful on first glance. And when they talk to each other later, he realizes that she’s also very kind towards him. Not only that, but she’s the first human to treat him nicely and respect his wish to not be called a cat. It’s no wonder he fell in love with her. And yet... People still hate him for this. Really? Rise and Kasumi also simp for the player characters of P4 and P5, sometimes in ways that are even more annoying, so why is it so bad that he simps for Ann? Not to mention, so much of the fandom simps for whatever character it is they like the most. Hell, I’m sort of simping for Morgana as I speak. But why is it only a problem when he’s simping at all? Is it because he’s a cat and Ann’s a human? Because remember, he still strongly believes he is a human, and even if he didn’t, he can still love her for being a kind and beautiful lady. I just plain don’t understand people who hate him for this. Section 4: The Okumura Arc. HOOOOOO BOY, I was dreading reaching this part. There’s so much to say here. I’ll just start from the beginning. Everyone hates Morgana for this arc because they feel he robbed Haru of her own arc, which, yes, you could say he did, but everyone treats him like he did it intentionally, like he meant to steal her arc for attention. If you’re gonna blame anyone for Morgana stealing Haru’s arc, blame the writers, but did Morgana have any in-universe reason to have wanted to steal attention from Haru at all? No! He went into Okumura’s arc the way he did because he was sad and angry and he wanted to prove that he was useful, not to steal attention from some girl he had never met. Why would he want attention, who would he even want it from? The players? He doesn’t know we exist! The same goes for the end of the Okumura arc, when Mona confronts Okumura instead of Haru. He acted to save his friends and protect Haru from having to confront her own father, but he’s the bad guy? What, because he “stole her spotlight”? Do you really think that was his intention when he did that? I don’t think so. Side note, people say he tried to run Joker over, even though he’s stated before that he can’t drive himself, and it was Haru, a known terrible driver, who was driving him. Bruh.
Part 2: Why I love Morgana. I won’t bother to divide this into sections, because I honestly have too much to really say about this, so I’ll just list every reason I love Morgana all in one go. Here goes! First, again, I’ll admit that I love cats, and Morgana may be the cutest cat I’ve ever seen, fictional or not. He’s possibly the cutest character ever, at least in my eyes. But it’s not just his looks and personality that make him adorable to me. I also love how much he treats Joker like a real brother. He looks after his sleep schedule to make sure he’s staying healthy, he always heals Joker before himself if you let him act freely in combat, even if he’s on the verge of death, he saves Joker’s life several times, inside and outside of combat, he teaches the thieves everything they have to know about the Metaverse, he’s the whole reason the game even happened and Joker and Ryuji didn’t die on day 1 in Kamoshida’s palace, he helps you in school, he pays your travel fees if you don’t have the money, he helps you date any girl you like, even Ann, yes, he helps you date Ann, the girl of his dreams, he’s literally the embodiment of humanity’s hopes and desires, and so, so much more. Morgana is my favourite character in Persona, one of my top 5 characters ever, and it’s sad that he gets so much more hate than he deserves. That’s all, folks. Hopefully people will read this and understand my points.
@@Alex-uq1el literally every you said is how i feel about morgana! Ive been looking for someone who doesn’t have the worlds most biggest hate boner for him. While yes i understand some aspects of his character are less than desirable but i still love him and you summed it all up pretty similarly to how i would though unironically im a dog person and have never had a cat. Monas my favorite phantom thief and second fav p5 character after joker himself so thanks for your comment 🙏🏾
I would actually say, Morgana is ine of the worst characters in all of fiction. Not only because every single minor aspect about him is horrible. He also has the most screentime and speeches of an 80+ hours gans
goro futaba haru shes not boring because shes nice takemi sojiro sae sumire hifumi miruki and mokoto are all well made and likable so your wrong persona 5 is awesome and sonic 2006 is not as bad as people say
I've never played a game that's so incredible, with such a fuck up of a character in it. Every part of Morgana's character, from his voice lines to his contribution to the story, has consistently made the narrative worse for me.
@@denysvisionyou're the one who doesn't like facts tho. That entire arc of morgana vs ryuji could've been resolved if ryuji just apologized lol. Morgana called him useless jokingly sure but it was never serious. Plus he never targeted his insecurities like not having a dad or his broken leg.
@@farhanahmed1175the entire arc wouldn't have happened had Morgana not did a complete 180 on an opinion he AGREED with Ryuji on.. Ryuji was in no way wrong here and the cat initiated the argument bringing his own insecurities when they weren't warranted
In defence of Morgana: 1.- Reasons for shitting on Ryuji. Whenever Morgana had a memory issue, Ryuji would shit on his head. Like, itsl was constant bickering between these two, it's not only Morgana's fault here. 2.- Simping for Ann. Don't you dare say that's a bad thing when you yourself and everyone else in this world simped once or twice for someone. It might be annoying but let's not consider like Morgana was touching or wanted to fuck Ann raw. 3.- ngl I don't think Morgana is weak, everyone needs a healer and yeah items exist but sometimes you want to save that item for another fight and stuff. However, every character has a purpose, Moragana's is to be of assistance. 4.- Development. Morgana from the start always had issues with his identity, having amnesia and then being bullied by someone because of your form and memory issues (cough ryuji cough) brought a lot of problems to Morgana. Of course later on when Futaba and Makoto entered the scene he became useless and the only one thing he did right was to be the smart of the group he was left alone with being nothing. Of course he did a mistake out of despair because of his bottled feelings. He leaves the team but later on he understands that his team is not only a group to help him become human but actually they became his friends and he will always help them when in need. In the end of the game he is even fine with being called a cat and doesn't care anymore. Since he learned what was his true identity. I really don't think Morgana was a wasted potential, very much the contrary, I liked a lot this character and the delivery was well done. Except for stealing Haru's moment. I never liked her that much as a character anyway, so I am totally fine with it lmao.
Morgana i think is supposed to represent the anima/animus archetype in the jungian psychology, this is why there are confusions about "his" gender, goal or where he/she/it came from, also why she has extreme opinions like having high moral standards to what is right and wrong throughout the story yet still is a masterthief for what seems like no reasons what so every. I first thought of her as the Ego but the anima/animus seems more in place right?
Bad take, seeing Morgana = Happiness Morgana single handedly is carrying the game. The game becomes worse after Makoto is replacing him and it gets even worse after Futaba has the audacity to be the navigator. Futaba has absolutely no personalality in her Navigation lines. Whereas Morganas' lines are oozing with character and his relation to the other other party members. And outside of combat Futaba is only being used as moving the plot forward and coming up with every single solution, which does not feel earned. As for Morganas character it makes complete sense the way he is acting and behaving due to his amnesia and the insecurity that comes with it. He may act like he is completly full ofhimself, which is also portrait by his topheavy/bloated looking Persona, Zorro. But is internally fighting with himself and his amnesia. He is afraid of showing the others how "scared" he is because of this. Which is why you only have these scenes in the evening with the main character, who he seems to fully trust. Morgana is gripping hard onto his believe to be human, would he let go of this wish/believe something would die inside of him. He is afraid that this would mean that he is loosing his rebellious spirit and therefore his Persona, the one thing that is making him move forward. Him being replaced by Makoto and Futaba fuels his self-doubt in combination with being called "useless" and experiencing it first hand in the scene with Haru that he isn't of much help in the real world in cat form. Which is why he wants to prove to himself that he is capable of much more then other phantom thieves. Also he has the Magician Arcana, a Tarot card which is closely connected to the Fool (Ren/Main Character). The Magician is interpreted with potential and the manifestation of desire as well as tapping into ones talent (when paired with the fool), which again fits his role in the game. On the otherhand the reversed Magician means madness or mental illness, which would be the amnesia Morgana is suffering under. The goal for the reveresed Magician is it to turn it upright to be on a positive path onceagain. Which is shown and betrayed towards the end of the game when he finally gets his memories back and is able to accept himself the way he is. My opinion about him seems to be the polar opposite of a lot of people. I absolutely love and adore him as a character in terms of personality, design and phenomenal voice in english and japanese. He is by far my favorite character in any media.
I am very glad that someone else besides me was able to notice these personality traits of Morgana. I was incredibly surprised when I found out that many people don't like this character. Thanks to this video, the reasons became clear, but I still can't completely agree with them. Morgana is a good character for me
I don't hate morgana but the reason I don't like him is because he thinks he useless cause other members can do stuff better than him he even gets mad about futaba joins the team u never see mitsuru get mad at fuuka for being a better navigator or felt like she is useless in p3 same with teddie and rise
Okay, I wanted to make a huge comment but uh, I kinda wanna make a response video instead. I'm not really that good at committing to this sorta stuff buuuut I wanna share my thoughts on this vid in more detail, and also...great video! The editing was really good, you do bring some pretty good points, but a few of them stood out to me so much that I realized my phone was lagging from how much I was typing my response. So instead you've inspired me to make a video, and during it, I'm going to make a random Silver the Hedgehog reference just for you. Don't expect anything special, and possibly don't even expect a video once again, I don't really commit to this sorta stuff, but yeaaah, I wanna make a proper response with my thoughts on Morgana! So uh...yeah, it doesn't really matter that much for me to say this here but, I wanna do that anyway. Also, I don't know why this video has so many dislikes, it's honestly really fair-- XD ...PS: Are you a Kid Icarus fan?? 👀
Honestly, you're better off DMing on Twitter at that point. You don't have to say everything at once; just simply summarize your thoughts in one or two sentences and then slowly work through your elaboration. And yes, I am a Kid Icarus fan. :)
@@JonathanFrostathan I forgot those existed, lovely! XD Yeah I don't think an entire video is necessary since I mostly agree with some your points and the ones I don't agree with are more just personal preference imo-
Morgana isn't just terribly written its basically devs self insert of ripping any and all gameplay decisions from the player even when it makes zero fucking sense. He's annoying more than just in a story sense he single handedly makes p5r the worst experience to replay and I heard he's even worse in normal p5 so yeah fuck this character.
*HEY*
Couple things:
-This video is a reupload from yesterday. I'm reuploading it because Google Ads wouldn't let me run my ads for the video because of cursing, so I censored the curse words and reuploaded the video.
As for the video itself:
-I forgot to mention this, but this video is focusing on Morgana in Persona 5 and in Royal. Not in Strikers or the Dancing games.
-Also, after looking into it, I noticed that some of my criticisms of Haru's wasted development are, in fact, elaborated on in her confidant, such as the interim CEO and how the game wants you to believe that there'd be no weight on her shoulders. I still stand by the fact that her development should've been given more attention in the base game, like with every other party member, but there was still some stuff that I overlooked, and that's on me for not finishing her confidant during my playthrough.
Regardless, NO MOSS WILL SLOW ME DOWN!
Preach, but be glad that the lady who got spotlight nabbed, got something in the offbrad final fantasy 14 persona 5 strikers
@@Dkrule1 I did hear about that while editing. I doubt that I'll ever consider picking up P5Strikers, but that is good to know.
0:58 im bad at telling what are jokes and what is serious. is this a joke?
@@Notabl3 Technically yes but it's my legit headcanon (I'm not one of those people to force my personal headcanon onto other people tho).
@@JonathanFrostathan k
Ryuji gets shit on by Morgana for 4 months but he throws a fit the second Ryuji punches back one time, also he gets mad at the party for following the rule he made about not going after a target unless everyone is on board
Right!
No it was multiple times and Morgana had clear insecurity issues unlike Ryuji it's not the same thing, no he is mad for them being so indecisive.
@@Jdudec367he shouldn't be throwing stones from a glass house then
@@tasin2776 It wasn't stones, it's not like he seriously meant it before.
@@Jdudec367He did, and even if he didn’t, how the hell would Ryuji know that? “Oh, he’s dealing with an identity crisis and that gives him an excuse to be a dick”, NO. He’s been shitting on Ryuji since day 1. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out
you don't have to like kawakami, but let's be honest here. she's the reason why you are going to 100% the game when you call her for a massage after exiting mementos or palace
Not really
Maybe in the original but she’s much less useful in royal
Not really, I can never be bothered to start or finish her social link 💀
@@dataroaming7512
Who does your laundry ?
Who does your infiltration tools ?
Who does your coffee ?
Who does your curry ?
Who gives you a massage so you can go out at night ?
The thing that other girls or other confidants did for you was nothing compared to her.
Hell, you can even bang all the girls because you can go out at night while she does all those thing.
Still useless ? Look into your mirror and ask that mirror whether you can do those things.
Morgana: RYUJI! YOUR MOTIVATIONS FOR JOINING THE PHANTOM THIEVES ARE SHALLOW AND SELFISH!!!
Ryuji's Motivation: I was taken advantage of by an abusive authority figure and felt helpless to stop it. I want to give courage to others so that they don't feel like I did.
Morgana"s Motivation: Me like pretty girl, but she no like me back. I pretend to go along with social reform plan to force them to explore a place that otherwise would have little interest to them. Once we reach bottom, me become human and pretty girl become all mine!
So, is Morgana a hypocrite?
@@adeleinetheartist8267 basically yes
he...never said that though, he just said that he is currently being shallow and selfish which he was right which Ryuji himself later admitted.
Also that isn't Morgana's motivation, his is to see what his past really is, he doesn't force them to explore places at all and he does genuinely want social reform. That isn't his plan at all.
@@brooklynnbien-aime3859 Not really.
@Jayden C sure but the way Morgana makes Ryuji seem is as a useless pathetic person who's only part of the thieves for selfish reasons because he wants to pick up chick's.....
But Morgana constantly tries to flirt with Ann, says he'll marry her when he becomes human and constantly calls Ryuji useless. When Ryuji calls him useless once he whines like a baby and takes ages to get over it
He's a hypocrite
I feel like Morgana was intended to make us like Teddie more by comparison.
Oh yeah, Teddies voice grated a bit, he was an absolute creep, and a bit annoying but there were times when I genuinely laughed at his antics. Morgana has nothing redeeming about him and his unpleasantness to Ryuji got old fast and the way he completely took over Harus introduction and made it about him was frustrating
I hated teddie at the start of P4 but he grew on me by the end. And I kinda just overlook the pervyness as bad Japanese humor. And besides yuske is just as pervy as Teddie he’s just not so blatant about it
But what if we liked Koromaru better than both Teddie and Morgana?
Teddie is great. At least he has a redemption in character unlike this prick where he runs off as soon as something happens to him. Fuck morgana
@@terminianhistorian7185well konohamaru is a dog, u can't go wrong with a pet
After we got Yusuke, I basically stopped using Morgana. The only time I used him was in the Mementos Palace and that was because he was the only character with a second awakening.
Hey, it was my first time playing playing Persona!
Lmao, I didn’t like Yusuke at first but after morgana invited him to stay at my place without asking me….. bruh, I was like this “I am so mfk tired of this stupid cat trying to tell me what to do lmao 🤣”plus I hate that he gives my boy, sakamoto so much shit.
I Have Not Played Any Of The Games But Hear Me Out : Least Teddie Had A Reason To Become Human. (Regardless Of How Ridiculous It Was)
Morgana is the worst. You have to spend every waking moment with this thin-skinned, arrogant douchebag cat who never shuts up. I never fully forgave him for walking away from the team and picking sides with Haru either. Felt like a betrayal to the whole group and Joker in particular, who was stuck with the burden of feeding and sheltering Morgana's useless ass.
Think-skinned arrogant douche bag 😂. That’s clever my dude
I agree but I wouldn’t call him useless since he can literally turn into a car just annoying as all hell
The way he tells the player what we can and can’t do so he’s basically doing a better job than the law at making the player’s life chained and linear, always bullying skull over anything and acting like the leader when he’s not
Most the time I just wanna shoot the annoying thing
Couldn't have said that better even if I tried.
Teddie Is Alot Better
@@moonlitequimby847 not at all
Bro I tried using every party member in the last boss in p5r but EVERY TIME I SWITCH HIM IN HE DIES and the way he took screen time from HARU IN THE PLACE ABOUT THATS ABOUT HER DAD just pisses me off and I hate him so much because makoto gets a scene futaba gets a scene fucking CROW gets one but nooo haru ain’t shit
Never mind your talked about sorry for the rant dude
I can see the value in Morgana's character as it is actually very flawed and, well, human.
I think what just crosses the line with me is when he walks from the team and nearly runs Joker over. The disregard for the safety of the only dude that has had your back despite your petty behavior, thats just unforgivable in my eyes.
I don't know why but I really like morgana, like, I grew attatched to him and always kept him in the party during the whole game, and now I don't want to take him off the party
Same, I’ve been using him a lot more in my second playthrough than I did in the first, but I generally enjoy him as a character
Same, in fact he's my second favorite character, behind Ryuji.
pfp checks out
Honestly, Morgana sucking in fights wasn't really a huge "shock" for me, because as soon as I got Makoto that had Energy Drop and Mediarama, I instantly replaced him with her
Morgana sucks thanks to the lack of versatility that makoto fills in better in a game where adapting to resistances is key.
Though morgana is a good pick for early game since most enemies are still weak to wind for the most part.. but once you start going into Sae's palace and the later he becomes pretty obsolete.
Its like white mage and red mage in final fantasy, except here there is s clear favouritism for adaptability than efficacy. You dont need a lot of healing to get the job done just good dps and a back up.
Nah Morgana sucks, he's still the best healer and is great for getting treasure demons.
@@endlessazure2142 No he doesn't suck as he is still the best healer and is great for getting treasure demons.
Not really he is sitll useful.
No there isn't a clear favoritism. Nah good healing can matter too.
I don't know as soon as Makoto and even Better healing Items came up later in the game, he's pretty weak late game by comparison in my opinion.@@Jdudec367
I think it was a poor decision to have Morgana's insecurities come from becoming useless as a navigator. On my first play through, he was in my party for THE WHOLE GAME. Totally ruined my immersion since, gameplay wise, he was one of the only dudes who were actually fighting. Despite this, he claims to feel useless because Futaba replaced him. That arc depended too much on the player NOT using Morgana in their party. Forced my guy Ryuji to apologize -_-
I really liked the game, but I've disliked a lot of Persona 5's writing decisions for a long time, cool to see someone spread my exact sentiments on this Walmart Teddie.
Nice vid!
You had me at "Walmart Teddie" lmao.
To be fair, it wasn't so much Mona being replaced as a navigator as it was him losing most of his other roles on the team. Makoto replaced so many of his roles in combat to where most players would replace him with Makoto at that point in time, not to mention that she took over as the team's strategist. It was *also* Futaba replacing him completely as a navigator that made him feel down, too. Whether he's in your party at all times or not, he was still gradually losing his value on the team, especially now that everyone knew everything about the metaverse and how it works. People like Ryuji were also commenting frequently on how Morgana was becoming less and less useful to the team. Furthermore, his nightmares kept happening to him, nobody would listen to him when he tried to let out his feelings, and as his insecurities about being a cat got worse, Ryuji kept calling him one over and over, in full awareness of how much it hurts him. All of this piled up until Morgana couldn't take it anymore and he acted out on his strong emotions. It wasn't just one or two things leading up to his outburst, it was a bunch of things. Ryuji calling him useless in the one time where he felt as such was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
@@JonathanFrostathan I really wish they akechi as the navigator more,
@@Alex-uq1elIt would've been better, if it happened during a time period, where only *one* member was left out of the party. Even better if you would've been forced to leave out Morgana... But that wasn't the case, plus at that point, every member was still useful on their own. When Makoto appeared, *two* members had to be left out of a party. So the second member could've also been a whiny mf like Morgana, especially since Joker could pretty much replace everyone's Persona. Yet, no one really complained except Morgana. And that's what made him so annoying at this part.
me too lol, just got here after using him as my healer all game. NOW he is complaining about being useless.
Honestly this was a really thought out video i enjoyed it a lot!
Pretty much everything you said is how i feel about Morgana since P5 came out
It's really sad Haru gets robbed of her character development and thrown her to the side not giving much of anything until Persona 5 Strikers where Haru finally gets the love and respect she rightfully deserves even though it took a year in game for us to get that not a good look
Speaking of P5S I might be the only one who thinks this and it's just my opinion but I really think Sophia aka Sophie is a way better character than Morgana himself her arc in the game felt like it matter she's has gone from not understanding what the human heart is to completely understanding how important the heart truly is she wanted to set a path for herself to feel needed and make her teammates proud never once i ever felt her story was rush or boring not to mention her love for the Phantom Thieves is just wholesome no two ways about it she doesn't be little anyone or calls someone useless like Ryuji or uses anybody for her own personal gain like Joker or Haru or creeply obsess with somebody like Ann (Which by the by i really hate it and it reminds me of Teddie) she genuinely wants to help people especially those who lost their way and she accepts herself for who she is! I can go on about her she's that great I can't imagine P5S without Sophia if Atlus made her the mascot of Persona 5 i wouldn't mind that.
At first I thought Morgana was an ok character, after okumura however, that changed drastically. He cycles through the same 2 stages being a simp or a filler, then decides to drop a massive bombshell that just negates any progress he made as a character in 4 in game days. The disappointment I had when he came back on Christmas after Yaldabaoth 💀💀💀
And also basically stealing Haru’s entire development was the final nail in the coffin for me
I can't with the fucking cat, he annoys me so damn much that I would sit through a 1000 bear puns just to have Teddie back
As much i hate morgana, thank god he didnt stay as a human, god it looks so cursed
Requesting that Atlus update the game to replace all of Mprgana's lines with Garfield quotes. I would rather endure a million lasagna jokes before listening to that dork's lame banter again
Damn that sounds unBEARable
the only thing that i liked about morgana's characterization is how he actually called out the thieves's bullshit when they were all acting pathetic about pursuing okumura. he was always the stubborn one in the group, and he wasn't exactly wrong with this.
Oh one hundred percent agree on that front. Rare Morgana W tbh.
But even then, the Thieves WERE right about Okumura's popularity being suspicious
This is one of the videos I can watch and enjoy while fully disagreeing with you. Amazing video my guy.
Same, while I disagree harshly
Good shit my man
After watching this I can see why most people hate Morgana (he's still one of my favourite characters) but the "stealing Haru's arc" thing isn't fully his fault because (and I'm not trying to reference a meme) even if that's the case it wouldn't be the first time Persona completed one characters arc after starting another one but Haru is just.....there..... for the rest of the game. She could have had more dialogue when the thieves confronted Akechi during Shido's Palace or when they teamed up with him during Maruki's Palace but because she didn't Morgana is getting hate that she should get.
This is actually a really good point. With all of the characters having something to say during the characters' arcs, Haru not being one of them does seem like it's more her fault for not saying anything. Unlike Morgana, she isn't trying to be secretive or anything.
I disagree. It has happened in p4 when Rise ended up sharing her dungeon with Teddie, but the way it was handled was completely different; all the build up to the dungeon, the dungeon itself was centered on her. She got her character arc wrapped up exactly the same as the other characters. She got no less focus than the others, the only difference was Teddie came immediately after. Meanwhile, in her case a lot of the build up arc focused on Morgana and his issues with hers taking a backseat; even the boss fight with her father was made just about as much about him and she ‘fully awakened’ there but she discovered the tv world and persons off screen. It has been done before, but the Chie/Yukiko, Teddie/Rise dungeons were much earlier on. There were a lot more story events to give them attention
I also agree she didn’t do much after it was done which I think in part is to do with the fact (a) she was introduced too late (b) she is just a sweet rich girl with a sweet father.
@@aikikaname6508 1st of all Haru isn't as sweet as some people think, 2nd of all her father isn't sweet (not counting Maruki's reality), 3rd of all You're right about the whole thing with Rise but even if Teddie had ruined her arc it would have been forgiven after Persona 4 Ultimax happened (because she was more important in that game then half of her team) just like "Morgana ruining Haru's arc" would be forgiven if she wasn't just....there....even in Persona 5 Strikers, instead even when her arc continued in that game she didn't get as much focus as she could've and that had nothing to do with Morgana and I bring that up partly because Strikers went out of it's way to put focus on the less important Phantom Thieves and Haru's arc still sucks even without Morgana being important to it.
@@JonathanFrostathan honestly i think it might be the worst dungeon over all anyways. the only buildup was them constantly shoving the big bad being suspicious in your face. no real screen time until you are IN the dungeon and i dont care enough to use morgana as a reason to explore. Hes annoying and is literally not important enough to me for me to enjoy the dungeon just to find him.
Hard agree. Bro cant even handle a single insult from saint ryuji. My least favorite part of the series is when he stole the spotlight from Haru (IN HER OWN FATHER'S PALACE) for some basic "friendship is power" bs.
My autistic CEO wife deserves better than that smdh
About the 3rd semester comments, did you not go around for an entire week exploring what marukis reality was like? You visibly see the differences in the characters lives and not only that you also hear about how some of the minor characters have changed like how the angry cynical teacher is now one of the most cheerful people in the school or the student who switched his passion because that's what maruki thought was best for him. You literially see just how different life is in marukis reality
Oh, he's one of those critics that has to ignore details and information just to put out the "P5R isn't an amazibg game!".
P5R isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you have to omit and misrepresent the game, it comes off as disingenuous.
Yeah, that's my bad. I forgot about the thing with the teacher and I ignored the other details within the third semester. I think I was getting at something related to the party members, but I'll still take the L on this one.
@@JonathanFrostathan
Hey, it's good you admitted your mistake. Apologies for the hostility!
I think 3rd Semester is peak fiction, but I do think it could benefit with some minor alterations and additions.
@@incognito200 peak persona 5 royale virgin mad
@@chainsofgames This! This is the best comment in this section!
Hard take
Sophie (from P5 Strikers) is much better written that Morgana.
Sophie easily rivals Haru for my favorite P5 character.
Fr, She could've been the mascot of persona 5 instead.
When he left the phantom thieves I was hoping he wouldn’t come back, how’s this watermelon headass cat with identity issues gonna tell me when to go to bed or not?! I swear to god he’s more annoying than Mishima.
ong
"🍉 head ass cat" 😂💀
i still stand by the idea that they should've made Hifumi the Navigator instead of Futaba. The fact the shogi player who makes perfect sense as a navi was passed up for the gamer girl shut in baffles me. Not only that, it could've opened more doors with Yusuke having someone he'd be chummy with at his own school since he's a loner at his own school and outside the phantom thieves... let alone the fact when he's with the thieves he's not exactly all that chummy with the ones that aren't joker and after joker leaves, he's no longer bound to the group. When you sit down and think about it, Yusuke has absolutely no reason to hang with anyone but Joker.
Hifumi shows great mental prowess. but futaba tookdown medjed (powerful criminal organisation or hackers) by counterhacking it by herself.
Best ad ever
Absolutely agree.
Tru
Yeah, I dunno why this is an ad but if this what real ads were I'd never skip em
I think my biggest gripe with morgana during okumura is *why* he's feeling useless. I honestly never got why he was having these sudden doubts about himself when he's shown his worth as a teammate FAR more then he ever has as a navigator.
Like... Come on man, you've literally saved the phantom thieves like twice from certain death at this point. I'm pretty sure they're more in your debt than you'd think. Why do you care so much that you aren't a navigator anymore when you're a good teammate?
Also mementos is unbearable enough as it is, if he wasn't there I'd hate it more than i already do.
As for most of the other stuff, it didn't bother me all that much, his interactions with ryuji were a bit grating but i didn't find them that bad, felt more like a back and fourth between them. Kinda like how Trevor Belmont and alucard interacted with each other. (Though i haven't watched castlevanina in a while so maybe that's just me)
His simping for ann never got to me either when he talks about her during the story like, maybe 8 times at most. Felt more like a silly crush he had for a girl who was way out of his league lol.
Combat wise he's okay, i wasn't playing on the highest difficulty so i didn't have too many problems with managing his health, and as such i felt i didn't need to bench him like i didn't bench ryuji.
All in all, morgana is an alright character in my opinion, I've delt with far worse characters so honestly it felt more like a relief when he wasn't as bad as i thought he was gonna be.
This is still a good video and it has good points, he does feel like a character they could have done wayyyy more with, especially in royal and it's third semester, but it feels like he gets shafted very frequently.
Ya know, Makoto does a similar thing with the pointless talking. Most of her lines in palaces amount to stating the obvious, she's probably my 2nd least favorite phantom thief. I didn't completely hate Morgana but I don't really like the guy either
Oh, of course. Like I said, it's a general problem with Persona 5 as a game.
Makoto is one of my favourites but she had an amazing introduction but then sorta faded into the background. I actually think Makoto and Harus order you find them should have been switched.
Haru is sweet, but she’s introduced last minute, her personality and overall relevance to the story is minimal.
Makoto, however, is introduced early on, has a role to the gang before being a phatom thief and is related to Sae, and takes a sort of leadership role like Naoto did in P4. She had enough going for her in plot relevance and character wise she wouldn’t suffer for the late introduction. And if her social link only was available late in the game and has a smaller window when players could begin it, maybe it could be more focused on her and Sae and the investigation. I think her character would have suffered less from a late intro
I love morgana and my least fav was makoto 😭
Whose your first least favorite Phantom Thief?
@@samflood5631 it's a toss up between Makoto and Morgana.
Video is speaking facts but
C’mon man
Why people sleeping on Haru
What’s strange too is that I would’ve thought that maybe the phantom thieves would’ve made a point to Morgana that he doesn’t have to be constantly “useful” to have a place in their group. Their relationship by the time that he has his tantrum is beyond quid pro quo.
1:47 Kasumire's situation is twice as goofy as Haru's considering she shows up a TON in unskippable cutscenes and yet she STILL ends up underdeveloped.
Hey Jon, just wanted to let you know you are a legend within a certain community on reddit that has a dislike for Morgana. Your video sums up everything that is wrong with the character, and how he could have been written better.
My video's on Reddit?????? :0
Just found the post on r/Persona5. It was just as I expected.
@@JonathanFrostathan It also made it on r/cuckthecat a group that likes to criticize morgana. You're famous
editing is so good huh
You know, I like Morgana.... I like him as a party member, as a friend, I really did feel bad when he dicided to leave the team, I found him oddly charmind, I mean... Sure, he's arrogant and a bit dumb, but that's how Japanese people write mascot characters, whatever. I think Teddie is a bit worse on that front. He is still an abuse victim that acts selfish and irrational because he's been pushed against the wall...... I mean...... It's kinda funny how people hate Mishima and Mona for the exact same reasons they like Futaba and Kasumi. Oh well, I guess if you're not a gamer waifu pandering to otaku who hides behind the MC like a knight, or a cute highschool athlete who worships your every step, you're not allowed to have feelings.
All fair arguments, BUT WAIT! I have a counter!
Cat
That's a good argument.
Final Fanasty - Crystal Bearers music in the background?
Hell yeah, dude! Haven't played the game myself, but I've been hooked on the soundtrack so far.
Never hated a main character more than Morgana in Persona. He's a nuisance
I like how you’re just stating your opinion on Morgana. Not trying to get other people to think like you. Also you have very good points.
Ironically I ACTUALLY have polar opposite opinion.
I love Morgana and hate Makoto and Futaba.
When Makoto joins she IMMEDIATELY gets slotted into the party by default, bosses everyone aroud and everyone obeys while ignoring the fact that she NOT ONLY BLACKMAILED PT BUT ALSO ALMOST GOT THEM KILLED! by going to Kaneshiro.
If people give shit to Morgana for feeling useless and runing away well why aren't they giving shit to Makoto for doing the same while having DEADLY consequences for the team?
Oh and Futaba also blackmails PT, yet everyone is cool with it and I can't even bring it up let alone kick them out.
When I play games I tend to associate myself with the protagonist and wonder what I would have done and honestly I would not have let Makoto and Futaba off the hook because they threatened not only my freedom, safety and given the state of police force possibly life, but my friends too, plus if they did it once what stops them from doing so again when it will suite them?
On my first run I legit thought one of them if not both were the traitor.
What I would have done is after their respective Palaces I would have kicked them out of the group and if the others intervened asking me tp reconsider I would have left myself cause only an idiot stays on the sinking ship and I would have also went to Igor to ask him to remove meta-nav from Makoto's and Futaba's devices or the entire team if need be. Would that have worked? Probably not, but I would at least try or create another strategy.
Seeing Morgana having issues with Makoto, Futaba and Ryuji (who's big mouth and idiocy even got us into this mess) and leaving... well I empathized and was glad cause MC was just a yes man doormat.
Oh yeah, let's ignore the fact Makoto was also blackmailed and didn't see another way out of her predicament, and Futaba was borderline suicidal.
Mind you, I only played Royal and Strikers, but Morgana never forced me to go to bed. I like Morgana.
Also, he's the only user of salvation unless you spend a million yen in the black market.
I'm kind of baffled people are passionate enough to vehemently hate Morgana. He might be a bit underbaked in the grand scheme of things, and his bashing of Ryuji is uncalled for, but I'm glad he sticks around us.
Everyone was mean to Ryuji. I liked Morgana. It did take me a minute to wrap my mind around the fact that this character that has a female name and is voiced by a female actress is actually male. But once my brain adjusted to that, I came to really like the character. Morgana made me laugh more than any of the other characters. Yusuke was a pretentious douche.
Yeah, they fixed the go to bed problem completely in Royal. They let you do activities those nights and the amount of free time you have is much more lenient. I never ran into issues in Royal, only the base game.
A big problem is they replaced essentially the narration voice with Morgana, which doesn’t quite work because instead of it being an internal monologue from protag telling them to rest for the night, it becomes an actual character turned into an obstacle who is preventing you the player from doing what you want. He also tells you stuff like you don’t like crepes, which is weird because why does he decide what you want?
Putting the exposition/game narration into a character is a choice that means you need to make really sure their input isn’t invasive, restrictive or annoying. Because if you bog down the player with restrictions or pointless tutorials the player has a face to pin it on. Look at Navi. She had a nice design and her character was fine, but because they made her voice redundant info and the voice that blocks off game areas, she’s now infamous. Meanwhile, the exposition in TP was much less intrusive so Midna didn’t get hate for that
wow 2 years since you did this and I finally got the amount of social points to ask a friend for his ps3 and be able to play persona 5,
I really love the game and I feel bad not finding more people who speak Spanish who have the same opinion, Morgana is the worst virtual atrocity I have ever seen in my life, I want to go down and pee
"Hey, don't do that, you should go to sleep."
I want to exercise, watch TV, compare something, see something in a store
"Hey no, I don't like that and my word is absolute"
Joker has the same expressiveness as a stone but he has something that makes him more noticeable than Morgana, when I get to Futaba and see that she replaces Morgana as navigator and in that damn text box that reminds me that I'm alive or that For some reason I disabled Ryuji's automatic breathing,
"Skull, you're pathetic" is what the dirty cat tells me who likes a minor in a latex suit and who looks like a dominatrix with a toothed whip
I get hate every time I say this, but morgana is the reason P5R is my least favorite persona game (still a good game but like P1, P3F, P4G more (haven't played P2)). He is the worst supporting character of all time I hate him so much; I want to punt him like a football. The only reason I don't feel like replaying P5R.
even worse then navi and omochao i dont think so nobody says ocarina of time is there least liked zelda because of navi ocarina of time also has that stupid owl Kaepora Gaebora whos even worse navi at least has a few useful stuff like telling you where wallmasters are i hate that stupid owl who shows up everywhere and says useless stuff you cant skip and even says must i say it again NO THANK YOU WE ARE NOT STUPID dont you dare say its the worst zelda just because of these two the true worst zelda game is zelda 2 gameplay not like the others and way to hard before you say i suck it IS TO HARD i have beat megaman games so i dont suck persona 5 is not the worst if you say that then say ocarina of time is the worst because of navi
@@anastasiawinters4455 I still hate P5 because of morgana. Haven't ever beat a zelda game, but I like all the ones I played but BOTW. I've put some hours into OOT, MM, Zelda 1, BOTW, and TP. And from what I've played of OOT Navi didn't run away and get itself into trouble making you and your team chase after it to save it. I just can't enjoy P5, Morgana just sucks every bit of fun out of the game for me. P1 is definitely my favorite, so I guess I'm kind of biased and I don't really like any of the supporting characters but Teddy was alright.
@@BabyVegeta03Annoying or poorly written characters can really drag a story down. Maybe if Morgana was less hypocritical and insecure he'd be tolerable. I'd love a mascot character that, while cute and funny, can still be responsible and levelheaded. But instead we get a thin-skinned, ungrateful character who clearly has no respect for his friends. It sucks because he could have been so much better, even without changing his character entirely.
I came here to watch something while I was Fast Forwarding through his Week Long Useless Freakout. Video ended just as the Mission Start popped up where I could finally go out during the day again. 9/19 BTW
LMAOOOO that's actually really funny.
The only time I used morgana was when I didn't have yusuke and in okumura's palace, because I accidentally deleted freila on makoto and the wind weakness of the most common robot.
Finally, some good advertisements
Great video! Keep up the great work man 👍🏻
Thanks, Emorawr. ;)
Not watching the full video yet or scrolling in the comments because of spoilers, but I just had the post trip/pre palace lockdown around Morgana and it was even more annoying not being able to have any free time because of it. Deserved the punt.
Holy crap, i don't agree but the editing is top notch, you deserve way more subs
Why JonFrost is a terribly written RUclipsr
And why is that?
Everyone always hating on my boy Mona
And some commenters are hating on Makoto.
how can morgana even compare to aigis and, to a much lesser extent, teddie? like, aigis is an extremely well written and well liked character, while Morgana... Well?
This was an ad. Nice. Plus, i dont know why people keep using spoilers for games that been out for 1 year or so. Like, is it okay to see it as spoilers-free? Im just wondering. Also, I did play Royal.
I feel like if I didn't Persona fans would rave at me for not putting up a spoiler warning. Plus I like to be considerate for people that haven't finished the game and might not want to be spoiled by video essays like mine. I get what you're saying, though.
Consider it a final warning
My relationship with Morgana during my P5R has been... Interesting.
Gameplay-wise, he has the Garu-line of spells and healing. Former is cheaper to cast, the latter is always useful. And his physical skills have a high chance to cause crits, which, in Persona, is an automatic One More. There are builds to make Morgana work post Madarame, but there is no obligation to have him with you when you heal from the menu.
However, story-wise... I agree with you, 100%. What's more, he came up with the idea that the whole of PT has to agree on a target before going after them. Which becomes relevant against Okumura, since at the time, it's the people of the Phan-site that wants them to go after Okumura, and they don't all agree to target him just because people want them to. That's when he leaves, meets Haru, and from there they conveniently gain more reasons to go after him, alongside an obligation to. The plot literally happened because of his tantrum.
Also, after the reveal that he is a cat not because of a curse, but because that's how he was made, he made peace with being a cat... Until the third semester where he wants to be human because it would attract feminine attention...
I like him gameplay-wise (if you're using melee attacks with someone who's clearly made to be a MAGICIAN, you're off your rocker), but story-wise I roll my eyes when he's involved. At least he is less of a simp than Teddie.
Why is this an ad
I dunno bro, why'd you click on it?
@@JonathanFrostathanpathetic
So i know this is a reupload but like in the beginning you said you don't like Ohya. Why's that lol. Lots of people don't so i feel like I'm the only one that does. She's not my favorite (Ann is) but y'know
Ohya is bland at her best and repulsive at her worst, but it's mostly just the whole thing with the fake relationship between the teenage boy and the woman in her mid-20s. That's gonna leave a sting no matter who you are. It's similar to how I feel about Kawakami, but for some reason people like being "hot for teacher" I guess.
@Frank Marano I disagree. Like yeah she might not be the best character in the game. I feel like most people don't like her cause her confidant abilities aren't good so they just drop her. But her story is really good. Plus the bonus story scenes if you max out your confidants. It shows Ohya finding the person Joker's incident happened with to prove his innocence after getting re-arrested. And they say she's worst girl
@Frank Marano I see. I respect your opinion btw. Imo Ann is best girl for me. Makoto is cool too thouyg6
Morgana stays by the mc because he was literally created to do that
This game would be amazing with that stupid cat telling me I can't go anywhere or have to go to bed.
Morgana has always felt to me like another go at a Yukari-esque character, someone who isn't particularly likeable or pleasant, but has their redeeming moments. Yet, it just doesn't work with Morgana. It could be because 5 in general is terrified of addressing that its leads can be downright awful at points, which leads to the odd experience of them exhibiting some extremely cruel, irritating or just plain unlikeable traits, without it ever properly being acknowledged or used to the story's advantage. It feels like it wants to mix the moral ambiguity of 3's cast with the happy-go-lucky and chill nature of 4's, and the result just wasn't as great as it could have been. Morgana is just the most obvious example of it because of his screen time and consistent plot relevance.
Totally! Leaving out his obviously annoying lecture reading throughout the game, Morgana is archetypical tutorial character and his alienated backstory makes no goddamn sense. Doesn't feel relatable...
Morgana being a jerk? Almost as if that's how cats actually are or something....
b bu-but-b-b-but he's not a cat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he doesnt shut the fuck up about not being a cat!!!
Most cats aren't jerks idk where u got that idea from
You know damn well u teared up when we all thought we might not see him again en the near end of the game
Your channel is underrated Bruh I loved watching the video and felt good about talking shit about this stupid cat
WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN THIS BEFORE
Because you haven't seen any of my videos before? Maybe you should binge my entire yt channel. ;)
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
What bank did you rob? This is the only ad I've seen today
I've played honestly replayed Persona 5 Royal so many times I've lost count. Hell, as I'm writing this comment, I literally have the game open on my Switch right now.
And honestly, some of these opinions of Morgana actually mirror my own. Keyword: some.
Yes, Morgana stole the spotlight from Haru.
Yes, Morgana's whole arc of "running away because he felt useless" could've been handled WAAAY better.
Storywise, Morgana isn't handled very well. However, I always have him in my party for one reason: when it comes to combat, he RULES.
His slingshot can do some decent damage to a single foe (even ones resistant to Gun attacks!), when paired with Ryuji's "Insta-kill" ability from his Confidant, makes going through Mementos a _cakewalk,_ and his Pickpocket skill has honestly gotten me some good healing items when I needed them by simply attacking enemies!
Yes, his story arc could've been handled _much_ better. But his abilities in battle have saved my ass on multiple occasions.
I understand these are simply opinions at the end of the day, but this video was really well-done and definitely showed how the little bedtime-enforcing kitten wasn't done the best way.
Newbie for Pesona 5
i kept hearing bad things about Morgana and even worse than Teddie. I thought Mona is just bland and a bit irritating at most, but he is servicable compared to Teddie so far...
...and then i get into the leaving part and *holy shit* it's soo damn childish and petty that it almost fucked up PT's operation and then goes against their agreement. And when he got back it felt extremely shallow and i did not felt a thing but more frustated, and the fact that this entire situation cost Haru's character moment?? like holy shit this is *BAD* *BAD*
Teddie might be annoying and... well a creep, but his leaving doesn't cause a disturbence with the Investigation Team, and he have a *proper recollection and reflection* moments with Yu and the IT, as much as i really disliked (or even hated Teddie) he has his moment and it's honestly impressive on how they managed to create a touching moment with Teddie.
But this?? How did they messed up so badly?
The entire Mementos stake out also pissed me off, while i blame it partially on Ryuji for being stupidly reckless for the entire game. Mona is still as guilty because he literally can tell that everybody wants Mona to go back and clearly wants to make amend but he only focused on Ryuji's recklessness, it's soo painful thing to witness. And the fact he almost ran over Ren and the other PT, like what the fuck man?
Literally couldnt play Royal because i couldnt stand another 100 hours with Morgana
Maybe this whole arc could have been better if it was all about Haru and maybe Morgana’s arc could have been saved for the final level of the game.
(Complains about people being rude)
(Makes sexist jokes and attacks RUclipsrs)
Okay
Someone payed youtube to force this video upon me
Wasn't me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My second least favourite game for numerous reasons
This stupid cat and the lack of subtlety being among many of them.
Imagine paying money for an ad to get your subjective opinion out.
Imagine falling for the ad and giving the person money!!😂😂
true 😔
It worked
Well it’s a good way to get subscribers and attention on RUclips,
See, im on the opposite end here, i love ryuji and pretty much all of the phantom thieves. just not morgana. I was thinking why earlier on and it only recently clicked. He ONLY rags specifically on ryuji. Who is completely undeserving like, almost every single time with a few exceptions. Like when they were arguing before the 5th palace i fully expected a dialog option to tell them to shut up as the leader of the group. But no, nothing. That one dialog option that isnt in the game single handedly ruined morgana and the 5th palace as we got no real buildup to haru or the dungeon because of it. It made no sense to me how two of my closest friends dumped eachother onto the streets over one silly argument initiated by one of them(who was already on my shit list) unfairly. I always thought it made no sense for ryuji wanting girls to be a problem. especially since morgana kept objectifying ann just as bad and in a way i found cringe and annoying that wasn't in ryujis dialog when hes gawking at women in hawaii. Like, ryuji is a boy, just like the rest. why is it a problem only when ryuji does it. and as much as i like ann, i also never use her, almost at all. i dont like her outfit at all, but shes an excellent character. My party without mona, now, is makoto,ryuji and yusuke. Im not a huge makoto guy but shes literally stronger morgana. I only used morgana because i WAS sentimentally attached and looking past the annoying bits as "anime quirkyness". i mean, as much as i love japans works, one piece for instance has sanji, who is my favorite character, and for a time he literally existed to gawk at women. All i thought about that was "ive seen worse" and "i watched hdxd and chivalry of a failed knight, this is normal for their cultures character writing". Then he literally betrayed all of that trust. NO. I do NOT want him in my party anymore. And YES, he IS that annoying to me because of a single scene. theres no amount of cope that can redeem that. it was a betrayal and the fact ryuji has to apologise after this is over is even more infuriating.
During haru ark Morgana really pissed me off so much that I laughed when he got kicked
you're wrong but happens dude, can't always be right
no he is not wrong
@@denysvision eh he is, happens.
One thing you seem to forget to mention which is that thanks to Royal, I get that yeah, they're really just excuses the writers came up with just to have the story remain the same so that fans don't hate them over it, but as a result, it makes Morgana come off as a hypocrite.
I don't like blaming the writers in that way because it's disrespectful.
@@JonathanFrostathan I don't blame the writers for Royal's lack of additional story, I blame the fanboys for pushing Atlus into becoming hesitant of adding anything to the original story because it's not their fault and we've seen these fanboys hating Atlus purely for new story in remasters like with the two Persona 3 rereleases and Persona 4 Golden. TV Tropes calls this mindset "They Changed It, Now It Sucks".
@@JonathanFrostathan Besides, this isn't the first time we've seen a franchise reach its' downfall (If you can even call it that) based on fan feedback. This same sorta thing happened with the Sonic series and I've heard that it happened with Star Wars too.
I almost completely disagree with you but i also fully respect your opinion and you do have good points. Great video. :)
@Joe Bashaw
I actually have an entire essay regarding my thoughts on Morgana that I tried posting on the P5 Subreddit once, but, of course, the mods couldn't handle a good opinion on le funny simp cat, so they deleted it instantly. I'll post it here instead.
Persona... Persona Persona Persona. Persona games are interesting to me. I’ve only played Persona’s 4 and 5 so far, as well as a few spin-offs, but it seem the Persona games all have some sorts of magics to them that cause me to love them so much. Is it the music? Probably. Is it the gameplay? Likely. Is it the characters? Ehh... It’s complicated. Each Persona game has a very unique cast of characters, but each character always seems like either a big hit or a big miss, at least to me. I loved the investigation team, but I hated Teddie. I loved Adachi, but I didn’t like Akechi quite as much. I adored Yusuke, but it’s only just recently that I’ve been able to bring myself to like Makoto. But out of all the Persona characters I’ve gotten to know and either love or hate, one has stood out to me since the moment I got into Persona: Morgana. Now, I’ll start by saying I love cats, so already, I figured I might like Morgana at least a bit going into Persona 5. But I didn’t quite have high expectations for him, either. I’d heard of the fandom and how much they hate Morgana to death, and I thought I might feel the same about him going in. What I got instead surprised me. I loved Morgana. He’s become not only my favourite phantom thief, but my favourite persona character, and one of my favourite characters ever. I love this little guy! So... Why does everyone hate him so much? Well, as someone who’s unfortunately had to bear witness to the toxicity of the Persona fandom just because I don’t want to beat the simp cat to death brutally for no good reason, I think I know the reasons why. I’m going to be talking about the P5 fandom and their hate boners for Morgana, a character who really doesn’t deserve it. I’ll be dividing my thoughts on Morgana into two parts, with a few sections for each part.
*WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW.*
Part 1: Why the fanbase hates him.
Section 1: “Go the fuck to sleep”.
This one seems the most obvious to me, it’s been what everyone has bashed him for the most since the very beginning. In each Persona game, you have a very limited number of things you can do in each day. This is, of course, to prevent you from doing multiple social links all in one day, getting buff at the gym, and much more all early into the game, and it’s all really well put together. The games all give you just enough time to where if you’re careful with managing your time, you can do everything you want to do in the game all in one Playthrough. The ways in which the games force the players to sleep are pretty different sometimes, though. I haven’t played Persona 3 yet, but I’m fairly sure Minato/Makoto thinks to himself “I should probably go to sleep, I’m too tired to do this”. The same applies to Yu, and hell, Dojima doesn’t even let you leave the house for the first little while of P4. And before Morgana enters your life, and while he’s temporarily out of it in the Okumura arc, Ren tells himself “I feel too tired. I should go to sleep”. So clearly it’s just a part of the game, right? So when Morgana looks out for you and tells you to go to sleep, you’d think the fandom would think “Aww, that’s cute, he’s looking out for me like a brother”. Well, apparently... No. The fandom actually hates him for doing that, treating him like one big roadblock in their way, and even those who realize it’s just a part of the game still hate that he’s the one to tell you to sleep. Why is it so much worse when it’s him as opposed to the protagonist? Don’t you think you should be appreciating how much he’s caring for Joker’s wellbeing? Little dude’s a bro! Not in the eyes of the fandom, though, for... What ever reason.
Section 2: “Mona bad Ryuji good”.
Ryuji and Morgana have always had a very clear rivalry of sorts in Persona 5, ever since they first met. Joker and Ryuji first meet Morgana in Kamoshida’s palace, where he’s locked up in a jail cell, begging for their help. He manages to convince them that he’ll help them escape if they set him free, which they do, and when Ryuji mistakenly calls Morgana a cat, Mona asks him not to do so. Now, I understand Ryuji’s panic in that situation, seeing how it was life or death, but if the bizarre little creature saving me and my friend’s life asked me not to call him a certain name, no matter how much he looks like a cat, I would listen to him, because he’s helping me, I should respect his wishes, and because it’s a polite thing to do. What does Ryuji do? He keeps doing it, anyways, even yelling at Morgana to shut up at one point when he’s talking. Obviously, this would have been how Morgana would’ve grown to dislike Ryuji, and why he would’ve begun insulting him. This ended up spiralling into a full rivalry between them, and while Morgana would mostly just use weak playground insults towards Ryuji, Ryuji would still fire back, often aiming where he knew it would hurt Morgana, like calling him a cat frequently. And when Yusuke, Makoto, and Futaba start joining in, Ryuji pokes fun at how Morgana no longer fits in, or how he has very little use to the thieves now. Of course, he didn’t realize how useless Morgana was feeling in that time, but even still, that’s a low-blow, and it’s this combined with all his other negative feelings piling up that lead to Morgana’s outburst and him leaving the phantom thieves during the Okumura arc. Ryuji even fails to give Morgana a proper apology when they meet again in Mementos. And Mona is the bad guy? I can’t even begin to understand where people got the idea that “Mona insulted Ryuji the whole game, but Ryuji insulted him once and he had a tantrum and ran away”. Did people just look the other way whenever Ryuji said or did anything wrong? Could they not bear to see that their innocent Angel wasn’t actually that innocent?
Section 3: “Lady Ann...”
When Ryuji first awakens his Persona in Kamoshida’s palace, it’s shortly after that Joker, Ryuji, and Morgana see the cognitive Ann Takamaki. The moment Morgana sees her, he’s immediately attached by how gorgeous she looks. Given what would later be revealed to be his role as the embodiment of humanity’s hopes and desires, it makes sense that he would consider a popular model in Japan to be so beautiful on first glance. And when they talk to each other later, he realizes that she’s also very kind towards him. Not only that, but she’s the first human to treat him nicely and respect his wish to not be called a cat. It’s no wonder he fell in love with her. And yet... People still hate him for this. Really? Rise and Kasumi also simp for the player characters of P4 and P5, sometimes in ways that are even more annoying, so why is it so bad that he simps for Ann? Not to mention, so much of the fandom simps for whatever character it is they like the most. Hell, I’m sort of simping for Morgana as I speak. But why is it only a problem when he’s simping at all? Is it because he’s a cat and Ann’s a human? Because remember, he still strongly believes he is a human, and even if he didn’t, he can still love her for being a kind and beautiful lady. I just plain don’t understand people who hate him for this.
Section 4: The Okumura Arc.
HOOOOOO BOY, I was dreading reaching this part. There’s so much to say here. I’ll just start from the beginning. Everyone hates Morgana for this arc because they feel he robbed Haru of her own arc, which, yes, you could say he did, but everyone treats him like he did it intentionally, like he meant to steal her arc for attention. If you’re gonna blame anyone for Morgana stealing Haru’s arc, blame the writers, but did Morgana have any in-universe reason to have wanted to steal attention from Haru at all? No! He went into Okumura’s arc the way he did because he was sad and angry and he wanted to prove that he was useful, not to steal attention from some girl he had never met. Why would he want attention, who would he even want it from? The players? He doesn’t know we exist! The same goes for the end of the Okumura arc, when Mona confronts Okumura instead of Haru. He acted to save his friends and protect Haru from having to confront her own father, but he’s the bad guy? What, because he “stole her spotlight”? Do you really think that was his intention when he did that? I don’t think so.
Side note, people say he tried to run Joker over, even though he’s stated before that he can’t drive himself, and it was Haru, a known terrible driver, who was driving him. Bruh.
Part 2: Why I love Morgana.
I won’t bother to divide this into sections, because I honestly have too much to really say about this, so I’ll just list every reason I love Morgana all in one go. Here goes!
First, again, I’ll admit that I love cats, and Morgana may be the cutest cat I’ve ever seen, fictional or not. He’s possibly the cutest character ever, at least in my eyes. But it’s not just his looks and personality that make him adorable to me. I also love how much he treats Joker like a real brother. He looks after his sleep schedule to make sure he’s staying healthy, he always heals Joker before himself if you let him act freely in combat, even if he’s on the verge of death, he saves Joker’s life several times, inside and outside of combat, he teaches the thieves everything they have to know about the Metaverse, he’s the whole reason the game even happened and Joker and Ryuji didn’t die on day 1 in Kamoshida’s palace, he helps you in school, he pays your travel fees if you don’t have the money, he helps you date any girl you like, even Ann, yes, he helps you date Ann, the girl of his dreams, he’s literally the embodiment of humanity’s hopes and desires, and so, so much more. Morgana is my favourite character in Persona, one of my top 5 characters ever, and it’s sad that he gets so much more hate than he deserves. That’s all, folks. Hopefully people will read this and understand my points.
@@Alex-uq1el literally every you said is how i feel about morgana! Ive been looking for someone who doesn’t have the worlds most biggest hate boner for him.
While yes i understand some aspects of his character are less than desirable but i still love him and you summed it all up pretty similarly to how i would though unironically im a dog person and have never had a cat. Monas my favorite phantom thief and second fav p5 character after joker himself so thanks for your comment 🙏🏾
He's adorable despite being smug
I just keep him in the party for healing
I would actually say, Morgana is ine of the worst characters in all of fiction. Not only because every single minor aspect about him is horrible. He also has the most screentime and speeches of an 80+ hours gans
Finally someone else who sees this major problem
Okay, but to be fair, none of the characters in Persona 5 are written well or are even likeable.
goro futaba haru shes not boring because shes nice takemi sojiro sae sumire hifumi miruki and mokoto are all well made and likable so your wrong persona 5 is awesome and sonic 2006 is not as bad as people say
@@anastasiawinters4455 Nice trolling attempt.
And which characters from Persona 5 aren’t written well or likeable in particular?
I've never played a game that's so incredible, with such a fuck up of a character in it. Every part of Morgana's character, from his voice lines to his contribution to the story, has consistently made the narrative worse for me.
i disagree with every point you make. he is awesome and has an amazing va.
you just don't like facts
@@denysvision nah, he is the best
@@denysvisionyou're the one who doesn't like facts tho. That entire arc of morgana vs ryuji could've been resolved if ryuji just apologized lol. Morgana called him useless jokingly sure but it was never serious. Plus he never targeted his insecurities like not having a dad or his broken leg.
@@farhanahmed1175the entire arc wouldn't have happened had Morgana not did a complete 180 on an opinion he AGREED with Ryuji on.. Ryuji was in no way wrong here and the cat initiated the argument bringing his own insecurities when they weren't warranted
He’s a knock off teddie with none of the things that make teddie cool.
I like him because he’s marketable like Jack Frost
In defence of Morgana:
1.- Reasons for shitting on Ryuji. Whenever Morgana had a memory issue, Ryuji would shit on his head. Like, itsl was constant bickering between these two, it's not only Morgana's fault here.
2.- Simping for Ann. Don't you dare say that's a bad thing when you yourself and everyone else in this world simped once or twice for someone. It might be annoying but let's not consider like Morgana was touching or wanted to fuck Ann raw.
3.- ngl I don't think Morgana is weak, everyone needs a healer and yeah items exist but sometimes you want to save that item for another fight and stuff. However, every character has a purpose, Moragana's is to be of assistance.
4.- Development. Morgana from the start always had issues with his identity, having amnesia and then being bullied by someone because of your form and memory issues (cough ryuji cough) brought a lot of problems to Morgana. Of course later on when Futaba and Makoto entered the scene he became useless and the only one thing he did right was to be the smart of the group he was left alone with being nothing. Of course he did a mistake out of despair because of his bottled feelings. He leaves the team but later on he understands that his team is not only a group to help him become human but actually they became his friends and he will always help them when in need. In the end of the game he is even fine with being called a cat and doesn't care anymore. Since he learned what was his true identity.
I really don't think Morgana was a wasted potential, very much the contrary, I liked a lot this character and the delivery was well done. Except for stealing Haru's moment. I never liked her that much as a character anyway, so I am totally fine with it lmao.
Morgana W character
Here’s the thing despite his flaws he still was the only reason joker has a persona and that the metaverse wasn’t destroyed.
Morgana i think is supposed to represent the anima/animus archetype in the jungian psychology, this is why there are confusions about "his" gender, goal or where he/she/it came from, also why she has extreme opinions like having high moral standards to what is right and wrong throughout the story yet still is a masterthief for what seems like no reasons what so every. I first thought of her as the Ego but the anima/animus seems more in place right?
I mean Ann straight up asks his gender and he says male so he’s definitely a guy
Morgana almost ruins the whole game. Just a simp that won't shut up. Worst character in all 6 games.
Bad take, seeing Morgana = Happiness
Morgana single handedly is carrying the game.
The game becomes worse after Makoto is replacing him and it gets even worse after Futaba has the audacity to be the navigator.
Futaba has absolutely no personalality in her Navigation lines. Whereas Morganas' lines are oozing with character and his relation to the other other party members.
And outside of combat Futaba is only being used as moving the plot forward and coming up with every single solution, which does not feel earned.
As for Morganas character it makes complete sense the way he is acting and behaving due to his amnesia and the insecurity that comes with it.
He may act like he is completly full ofhimself, which is also portrait by his topheavy/bloated looking Persona, Zorro. But is internally fighting with himself and his amnesia. He is afraid of showing the others how "scared" he is because of this. Which is why you only have these scenes in the evening with the main character, who he seems to fully trust.
Morgana is gripping hard onto his believe to be human, would he let go of this wish/believe something would die inside of him. He is afraid that this would mean that he is loosing his rebellious spirit and therefore his Persona, the one thing that is making him move forward.
Him being replaced by Makoto and Futaba fuels his self-doubt in combination with being called "useless" and experiencing it first hand in the scene with Haru that he isn't of much help in the real world in cat form. Which is why he wants to prove to himself that he is capable of much more then other phantom thieves.
Also he has the Magician Arcana, a Tarot card which is closely connected to the Fool (Ren/Main Character).
The Magician is interpreted with potential and the manifestation of desire as well as tapping into ones talent (when paired with the fool), which again fits his role in the game.
On the otherhand the reversed Magician means madness or mental illness, which would be the amnesia Morgana is suffering under. The goal for the reveresed Magician is it to turn it upright to be on a positive path onceagain. Which is shown and betrayed towards the end of the game when he finally gets his memories back and is able to accept himself the way he is.
My opinion about him seems to be the polar opposite of a lot of people. I absolutely love and adore him as a character in terms of personality, design and phenomenal voice in english and japanese. He is by far my favorite character in any media.
I am very glad that someone else besides me was able to notice these personality traits of Morgana. I was incredibly surprised when I found out that many people don't like this character. Thanks to this video, the reasons became clear, but I still can't completely agree with them. Morgana is a good character for me
I don't hate morgana but the reason I don't like him is because he thinks he useless cause other members can do stuff better than him he even gets mad about futaba joins the team u never see mitsuru get mad at fuuka for being a better navigator or felt like she is useless in p3 same with teddie and rise
4:30 to be honest every main character in every persona game sucks up to MC
Even with his flaws, Morganas still adorable imo
Hy, im new to your chanell.
And its pretty cool
Koromaru is better than Morgana
We got a new morgana
YESSSIRRR Someone who hates Morgana more than me 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I 100% agree with that! P5 definitely had a problem with. Which is something that I felt previous games handled better
I don't even know who Morgana is
My mans agreed with me so hard that he got amnesia and completely forgot why he watched my video. XD
Okay, I wanted to make a huge comment but uh, I kinda wanna make a response video instead. I'm not really that good at committing to this sorta stuff buuuut I wanna share my thoughts on this vid in more detail, and also...great video! The editing was really good, you do bring some pretty good points, but a few of them stood out to me so much that I realized my phone was lagging from how much I was typing my response.
So instead you've inspired me to make a video, and during it, I'm going to make a random Silver the Hedgehog reference just for you. Don't expect anything special, and possibly don't even expect a video once again, I don't really commit to this sorta stuff, but yeaaah, I wanna make a proper response with my thoughts on Morgana! So uh...yeah, it doesn't really matter that much for me to say this here but, I wanna do that anyway. Also, I don't know why this video has so many dislikes, it's honestly really fair-- XD
...PS: Are you a Kid Icarus fan?? 👀
Honestly, you're better off DMing on Twitter at that point. You don't have to say everything at once; just simply summarize your thoughts in one or two sentences and then slowly work through your elaboration.
And yes, I am a Kid Icarus fan. :)
@@JonathanFrostathan I forgot those existed, lovely! XD
Yeah I don't think an entire video is necessary since I mostly agree with some your points and the ones I don't agree with are more just personal preference imo-
Morgana isn't just terribly written its basically devs self insert of ripping any and all gameplay decisions from the player even when it makes zero fucking sense. He's annoying more than just in a story sense he single handedly makes p5r the worst experience to replay and I heard he's even worse in normal p5 so yeah fuck this character.