Introduction to The Funny Fork by JGW.BIKE
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
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Abstract:
The Funny Fork project started as the simple desire to understand the handling characteristics of suspensions systems which were non telescopic in nature. Having few modern interpretations of linkage suspension systems available to test and tinker, I set about creating one. My goal was a prototype which would allow for a variety of setup options accommodating a number of bicycle frames, travel requirements, and tire sizes. Above and beyond these requirements were adjustments specific to linkage forks; these included the pivot position, and brake forces.
The resulting design has been built into two interpretations which I’ve labeled the FF-01 and FF-02. Both builds use different tubing construction, and pivot geometry which result in different steering and handling characteristics.
I wish you all the success. I'm a big fan of linkage suspension. Thanks.
It would be interesting to get feedback commentary from different experienced/professional riders on different terrain as to how the various changes in setup change the qualities of the ride.
Quite good video, awesome!
It's time to explore more suspension styles. As a Lefty fan I am intrigued. Also seeing Cannondale drop the Lefty on many of their models... I like the idea of this suspension design being used on the REAR of the bike. To your point about trailing characteristics, etc. VPP and DW-Link are good but are they the best? Looks like a great opportunity to patent/license but in any case. Really appreciate what you're doing! Thank you
I personally like this fork so much in term of different way of idea.
I like how you pushing on the limit of mechanical engineering.
Please keep up on this project and hope it commercialise soon ;)
About 20 years ago Mountain Bike Action did a bar-mounted G-force analysis on different forks. One that didn't do very well was the AMP. They attributed the poor results to its odd wheel path (it was a linkage fork with a slightly forward wheel path). Gotta change that fork's wheel path. A trade-off is losing the anti-dive effect, but it's worth it, imo.
I love this idea, specifically because as an end user I can put in any (within limits obviously) rear shock in the funny fork and get all the benefits of the awesome rear shocks that exist today. I like the idea of the cannondale lefty, but don't like how they tend to... blow up. Plus, you cant get it serviced by anyone but cannondale, which sucks.
subbed , i like people that think outside the box , with bikes im all about the weird or rare stuff , not because its better or anything but just because i can appreciate stuff more that is different then all the others , people that try different things
bagaimana cara menerapkan ini sistem di motor Honda Scoopy saya 🙏🏻 ?
I have always liked the linkage fork concept. I’m assuming you are using what appears to be a Lefty for ease of construction? I just don’t care for the way the asymmetrical look. I’m assuming it would be difficult to construct a fork in that manner that didn’t have an abundance of flex.
Your video is very informative and I love to see you offer a linkage type Fatbike fork in the $500 range.
For mtb linkage forks I would recommend reversing the pivot location so the pivot is facing away from the bike. That way it helps with anti squat and takes an arc that isn’t forcing the bike towards the opposite direction of travel. It’s the same idea with high pivot rear suspension. I think it would probably ride smoother and have better grip when going over large bumps and cornersz
Only question: does this reduce or increase brake dive? Also looks heavy...no question needed really.
I guess torsional forces would be worth looking into as well...while Lefty style forks are usually quite stiff, that single linkage might prove
to be a weak point in overall fork stiffness.
It can be setup to reduce brake dive or function with dive, and this is very much dependent on the riders center of gravity in relation to the pivot location. Dive becomes a tune-able function of the fork.
Nice work bro, love from indonesia 🇮🇩
How does it handle bottoming out? What does it feel like if you Biff a 5" log or Parking block? Looks cool so far!
The Funny Fork bottoms out like a normal fork but we have yet measured deflection in these momentary load cases to benchmark versus a telescopic fork. This will be apart of testing in the future.
This is class man! Wish ma mind could work like this lol
I hope it’s successful! It looks interesting
Was there a reason you didn't do a trailing edge fork? It would seem the bump force would be easier to absorb with a trailing edge design.
So interesting take on things, but what if you were to make the fork smaller and make the front shock linkage longer so it could be a fork that great for both climbing and decending. It would also be interesting to see a functional remote lockout. Great video👍
get Neco Mullaly on this, Frameworks bike with Funny fork. I like the idea of using a regular air-can shock so a Fox DPS of a Rock shox vivid are an option and hell why not a coil shock!!. Great thinking less seals and more bearings sounds smoother.
Looks good so far, I like it a lot. I think for this to be successful (or possibly just succeed where others have failed) it'll need to be understandable to your average Joe - ie - not look too weird and 160mm travel. Maybe dual sided to fit with standard hubs would be nice too...
Hmm. Two slightly smaller oness would look more cooler and i think more strong. Man you are on your way to revolutionizing suspension with this build. Hope it makes it through would love to see bikes with suspensions like that. If you can also make it cheaper the better. Man this makes me wanna pursuit my dream to be a engineer. Good luck to you and more to that project hehe.
Love the design. would be interested to see what its like with a coil shock with air assist. could really tune dive in. Make one where the travel of the wheel in essence keeps the head tube angle exactly the same through the whole suspension sweep.
On a sceptical note it is worth pointing out that Cannondale have switched from the Lefty fork to standard fork set ups from Rock Shox and Fox, though that was a telescopic fork. I think multi pivot forks have an advantage in so much as they don't suffer from break dive and have greater overall performance, with such things as small bump sensitivity. Motion France produce a fork with a similar concept but it looks very different so the potential market for multi link forks is there.
Not on their higher end XC bikes. I just purchased a Scapel and it has a lefty.
Cannondale's Headshok and Lefty run needle rollers on a square shaft instead of bushings on a round stanchion, so they cost a lot more to make, but should be in a completely different class to other telescopic forks in terms of small bump sensitivity. I haven't tried them, so can't be sure though.
What's the mechanism that is used to adjust the pivot point? It appears to me that it's fixed unless you're changing the tube it mounts on, and thus the shock mounting location, travel, leverage ratio, etc etc?
The entire 'strut' slides up and down to adjust the height of the pivot and beyond that both FF-01/02 have different dimensions on the pivot in relation to the steering centerline. I will cover this in a video to elaborate. Thanks for your question.
Hey that's pretty cool. Good luck with that. 😊
Looks awesome. I’m rocking a scalpel with a lefty. It would be awesome to try out your design.
Yea, just like you mentioned, it needs to be lighter and smaller. So my question is, is it possible to make funny forks on bith sides of the wheels but this time, thinner or even
Smaller? Thinner and smaller should still work coz this time, there are 2 of them working together similar to that of traditional forks but ofcourse, with funny forks design. I
Love its ingenuity except that it
Feels odd that the fork
Is only on one side. Thing is, you've got handlebars on both side, pedals on both sides, and 2 chain/seatstays.
More tunable air shocks like the dvo topaz and Fox float x2 would be very interesting to see. Also a coil shock on it too. I'm playing around with building my own full suspension frame. Maybe you should also do the same
Hi Josh, do you prefer the Stache or the Sultan? I'm probably going to choose one as my next bike.
The Sultan is fast, loves some flow and is comfortable all day. The Stache changes direction fast, likely due to the shorter chainstays but through the rough stuff prefers pinning it over picking lines(the tire mass at speed removes some precision). If I was picking one bike it would be the Sultan with two wheel/tire setups(27.5+and 29). The Sultan is near the end of its life and will be replaced soon enough, likely with another if Turner doesn't have an updated model out yet. Thanks for the question.
Great answer
I am now a Stache owner.
Congrats, its a hoot, enjoy!
Can you make a carbon and titanium version? How it behaves on the same road you travel on.
Hey Josh, what an awesome piece of engineering! BTW, I'm designing a new custom semi-prone bike (aero road bike for downhill and flats) would love to have a chat with you about that.
Sub'd. I like that. That could really be a game changer. Funny how its a small one man band who's pushing limits more than manufacturers pushing BS like Boost and inner tubes for your tubeless. Anyway. I will assume this means you can have a fantastic modular design that with the swap of a lower linkage or shock position you could adjust head angle, Wheelbase (and trail), travel etc. My main concern would be rear shocks (as far as i know) don't provide many options for low speed compression adjustment and a remote lockout lever would really help too. Keep it up!
Not related and nothing to do with performance, but I love the simetry in things so if you can do it on both sides ...masterpiece, about performance well I don’t know but I am sure people will love the idea since it looks so awesome
Will the turnings be stable on steep places?
Looks like a very beefed-up version of the USE linkage fork (Ultimate Sports Engineering of Poole, Dorset, England) of the late nineties/early noughties. Been years since I've seen one of those, last one I saw was on an Orange Sub-3.
Why the single side? Is it easier to design/build one side forks? Mentally, I can't get behind the "lefty" fork... Seems like you'll have to make it super beefy to compensate for the torsion.
I will dive into this in more depth in future videos but the decision was multi faceted. 1. Simulating multiple carbon tube assemblies on both sides of the wheel was difficult and beyond my internal FEA capabilities, others have reached out with greater expertise in this field and will likely allow for future development down that path. 2. I had some large diameter carbon tubes which were going unused. 3. Less parts at first means 1/2 as much to QC, setup in the cnc, bond in assembly, etc.. 5. I wanted to and knew I could always go another direction. In fact I have this designed in dual sided application ready for the cnc if it proves to be a beneficial step forward.
Thanks for the thorough response! I look forward to seeing the future progress and revisions.
If you can't trust a lefty to be strong enough then you need to start worrying about how the wheels stay on every car on the road with independent suspension. The wheels on cars are only held on from one side too and they even see much higher cornering loads as cars can't lean.
Looks very interesting. What is the current weight of the system as is?
5+ Lbs depending on shock choice. Lots of weight to lose.
Where does the centre of gravity sit wrt other forks?
How about the balancing? I mean weights distribution since it was one sided leg.. i think it kinda weird to ride caused by the weight distribution pressure one sided leg only.. it just an opinion.. anyway, it was a great idea n product..
WTF!!! Dude, great work!
Hehe this fork reminded me the Honda 90 or the vespa forks they use to run in front ,not a sparking or top level forks but does the job as supposed,I think strong points in this bike design is the ability of personalization of the behave and travel options, air shocks comes in dif types now, some are platform dedicated like the ck db air that would run a Knolly as a premium shock aince their 4x4 suspension design would be more effective using that shock ,in this particular case if the weight is a concern then some carbon fiber is the way to go, sadly i+d in this design would be very expensive, prolly some ceramic bearings, a nice looking mud guard and the ability to fit 26-27.5 or 29" wheels can turn this model fork into a desired product ,cannondales would test this design in some proto xc race bikes imo so I think this idea have some future, make sure u have a patent in case u find another use to this model not only bikes can benefit of this design :B cheer from Bolivia.
i would put the pivot point in front of the shock, which would change the wheel path making for a smoother ride
Why the floating rotor?
You have modified the sh*t out of bike suspension. I love it! If you could make one for us fat bike riders that would be awesome
Awesome! I want one for my freerider ;)
Can this work on very bad city roads ?
Were I get one
I would love if I could get my hands on one to test, because it looks like it would be very interesting, however I'm not very experienced or have any experience with other suspensions besides cheap coils. :( Subbed though because I wanna see where this will go, good luck!
It looks awesome have the fork be made of carbon fiber
Nice one dude
I would be interested to see it expand when braking and (second) integrating a brake energy regeneration unit for quick starts when making stops in the city
Something to store power for a lighting setup?
@@VANDWELLINGPRO Don't dynamo hubs do that already?
Josh - Ellis here from Fibrax UK via singletrackworld.com - Top Idea, bringing back the USE fork was actually something I was talking about last weekend whilst at a 24 hr race, I'm / we're manufacturers of plastic and rubber parts for the automotive industry but also started out making bike product over 115 years ago.
If there's anything we / I can do.. Give me a mail and we'll work something out.
Anyway, liked & subbed. Can't wait to see more!
Thanks will do, nice catalog of product.
Your going to need to use carbon fiber. Speak with Don at Criterion Composites in Garden Grove. He is a former aerospace engineer that has worked for GT bicycles and just finished working with Cervelo. His company was responsible for Cervelos Califorina project bikes that was a huge success. Tell him Jesse refered ya to him.
Is it possible to in electric scooter
Really interesting!
I think that’s great.
Quick! Patent it before josh can
Problem, wouldn't when you brake the force will act against your suspension? Espeshaly since how you mounted?
Personal i love the idea but i have never liked the one sided look, even when Cannondale created theirs. Only because my brain says the thing is gonna fold up and buckle to one side without the support (which it won't) but that's how it is in my head. I think it would love bad ass and chunky for me if both sides were forked.
The all new cannondale lefty.
Also check out the motion ride e18
im only a kid, a talented smart kid I know that if you crash with the bars going left or right while going forward can bend it and snap in half, im not saying its bad it is awesome it just needs a little more effort
Wait... was that Sandy?
How about a Fatbike fork ?
Seeing this now after seeing the new message fork... looks a bit ahead of its time in the same vein
Purely from a marketing point of view the name might be detrimental if you get to a stage you want to sell it in any quantity. This is just my opinion but I think you might have difficulty getting manufacturers to adopt it with its current name.
I like to see it on an 8 to 10 inch 3 inch wide bike
Send a set to Ali Clarkson he'll give you an honest review and priceless feedback.
I hope I can get 1
Hi Steven Baldwin
where's the funny part? i didn't laugh once
For those interested, here is the Mad Max Lefty, looks pretty good to me, wonder if we are having similar results... madmaxbike.wordpress.com/mad-max-lefty/
Funny bone 💀
I guess for me the obvious problem with the fork is that it's using a rear shock. Most telescopic forks riders can do some or all of the service themselves where rear shocks seem to need rebuilds more often and require a service centre with special tools and training for rebuilds. Durability is a key factor in my fork purchase.
Youre not the guy on "Street science" are you?
pitty I'm only seeing this now
Giveaways?😅😀
Recumbent trikes. Send me 2 and I'll test it out for u
That is not a trailing arm... I'm scared.
Lauf + Lefty
Make a coil variant
probably, not best solution, fore real use. Too much weight. But test propose, its ok.
it's not funny its seems to be flexy
Wut ta fuck is this