OUCH! 5 Years of Annual Inspection Costs for My Cessna 182
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- Here's the last 5 years of annual inspection costs for my 1975 Cessna 182. Some years are more, some are less. In an effort to have more transparent data on the web about this I wanted to share what I've experienced so far.
I think it's so important as an aircraft owner to be very dedicated to superb maintenance. Of the ways to get hurt in aviation, poor maintenance is one of the most avoidable. So while some years are painfully high cost-wise, I've already pre-committed that I will always pay whatever I need to in order to keep me safe in the air.
I hope this helps you in your aviation journey!
Below you can sign up below for my free five-day email series that covers the most impactful lessons I've had as an aviator, from flying to airplane ownership. You'll also be the first to hear about my new courses on how to buy an airplane and how I afford aviation through side hustles by signing up for the wait list here:
airplaneacadem...
If you want to know more about me (Charlie), here's my bio and aviation bucket list: airplaneacadem...
My dad and my uncle got tired of the costs of overhauls and maintenance costs, so they went to night school and got A&P certified. I showed dad your vid, he says he has saved $187k + just on labor in 20 years. Something to think about.
It’s nice to get confirmation that by becoming A&P it can/will work out financially in the long run.
“ I didn’t buy an airplane to skimp on maintenance”.... Words to live by !!!!! Thank you for sharing.
I’d say that was a very honest description of annual inspection expenses. I have owned a 1975 Cessna 172 for a little over three years and each annual is an opportunity to fix some maintenance issues and repair things that have failed or upgrade some older equipment. It isn’t cheap and it isn’t a good investment. It is what I enjoy and plan to continue to do! Airplanes are black holes for money but so are other high-end hobbies and this hobby lets me fly!!
Great video. I've been an owner for 10 years now, and I love it and recommend it to everyone. But I agree that the only way to own an airplane is to get used to the idea of never skimping on maintenance. If you can't comfortably pay for the unexpected $25K maintenance bill, keep renting.
If only more owners had that mentality. See too many aircraft in a state of partial disrepair just keeping it flying without much more that that. As long as the prop turns...
The sad part is that most rental aircraft are barely airworthy because they skimp on maintenance to make as much profit as possible renting the airplane
@@BaxterretxaB That surely could be a problem, however it isn’t across the board. Before you rent any aircraft, spend some time talking with folks from a local flying club, or simply call around and most places that will rent you an aircraft, will respect a guy that has questions, i.e. “When was the last annual”, “Aircraft age and maintenance history?”. Use your brain, don’t complain, You don’t have to use such a broad brush when you are painting negativity.
@@BaxterretxaB yup I agree. That is the reason I have taking so much time to finish my license. When I get done I’m just going to buy a plane. The rental plans are not the safest plans I have seen.
I love working as a mechanic and have been turning wrenches on dirtbikes, my vans, then in the machine shop industry. I just got done doing 3 1/5 years of FAA approved A&P college curriculum at night at the local college. Now I can take all the exams to be an A&P. Saves money and get to make sure it is done right. It is not for everyone up in age but I had a great time. Got A's and a couple of B's. Not interested in doing other peoples planes as of now. I would love to get an I/A certificate. One thing I would never do is not have my plane hangared.
Fly over there with a buddy and ride back in his plane...save $5000?
Flying is why my cars are 20 plus years old and over 200,000 miles. No car payments= hangar rent.
(Motorcycles are a different problem...lol)
Another great video! Jb.
Motorcycles are a great way to save money and get some basic backyard maintenance experience with :-)
I've been riding motorcycles since 1969 and haven't had any problems whatsoever except being caught in the rain and having to ride in the rain to work when 3 cars are blown up.
Good luck _finding_ a hanger! That's my problem! The top of the waiting list is from 2016.
Great job on the video. I wish every aircraft owner had your mentality towards the finances of aviation and didn't skimp on the small things during annual. As an IA, I highly encourage you to consider the owner-assist avenue with your shop. The hard part was done when you found a trustworthy shop so if they are willing to let you help it will not only save you some money but the knowledge you will gain about your aircraft will help you every time you step into the cockpit.
OMG!!!!! 6-8 grand average annual for a 182! I had no idea it would run that high! That sounds more like Bonanza annuals
Before I became a pilot, I was first an A&P rotary and fixed wing. Never had desire to buy an airplane, but to maintain an airplane with your philosophy, while managing costs, having an A&P helps, and having a trusted friend with an IA to help is great also. Some things y0u must do yourself for peace of mind. Parts are one thing, but the labor costs are horrible. In Dallas county, everything will be more expensive. Mesquite and even Sherman are not that far if it means saving 2 or 3,000 dollars. Dirt strips are great but your wheel fairings, prop and horz stab will say otherwise. The182 and 177 are my favorite Cessnas, with fixed gears, but constant props. Happy flying.
The Cardinal! Yes. It's a joy to fly. I understand, brother.
Your mindset on maintenance is very rare. I make a good living on people who don’t maintain their things.
Thanks for the info and all the great comments.
Good video... I've owned my 77 Tiger for nearly five years now. May will be the fifth annual I have had performed since I purchased it. Here's what I have learned... My first annual was done by the local shop that also did the maintenance for the fleet of a local flying club. The owner of the shop was relatively young.. early thirties... and had only been in business for a short while. He, unfortunately, did not encourage "owner assisted maintenance". I'm thinking because he was afraid of the liability aspects should something fail in flight and the FAA decide to point the finger at him. That lasted three years. My average annual cost over those three years was $1,800. During one of those annuals, I did have some equipment installed or repaired. But, for the most part, the rest of those annuals involved servicing your typical annual items per the Grumman AA-5B owners/maintenance manual.
Last year, I made the decision to find a new shop to perform my maintenance. The current shop seemed to be overwhelmed with work and, also, quite frankly, the owner and I weren't seeing eye to eye on how he was maintaining my aircraft. So, I found another shop located on the same field. In fact, their hangar is located right next to the first shop I was using... side by side. This shop also maintained a flying club fleet... the difference being that all of the aircraft was owned by the owner who also owns the flying club, whereas in the previous instance, those aircraft were leasebacks from other owners. Before I engaged with the new shop, I spoke to the owner and asked a simple question... "do you allow owner assisted maintenance"... to which he answered "yes". I was immediately sold.
My last annual was in May, 2020. I spent just over $850 and change. A savings of $1,000. Much of the work I performed was grunt work... removing access panels, removing and servicing the ignition system including servicing the spark plugs, inspecting the wiring and magnetos, inspecting and replacing the carb air filter in the airbox, changing the oil and filter, performing a filter inspection, performing a cylinder compression check, checking and replacing any broken EGT/CHT probes and other engine hardware, inspecting the avionics and electrical system, cleaning the under belly and other parts of the airplane of oil streaks, etc. This was done all under the supervision of my A&P. My A&P performed the final inspections before signing the Tiger off as "airworthy" for another year.
The moral of my story... find a shop, talk to the owner and see what they will and won't allow... mainly owner assisted maintenance. Try them out. If you don't like what they offer... move on until you find a shop that you do like. Trust me, if it doesn't save you money, it may be worth just the peace of mind that you have knowing your shop will take care of you. Always plan, (save money for), the unexpected. Because, in aviation, the unexpected can be expected!
Fly safe and fly often!
Great video! In case it helps someone... I've been flying for 46 years and owned (and built) many different aircraft. Bottom line: GA aircraft are very expensive to own. The worst was my 1964 Twin Comanche that averaged over $10,000 per year for the annuals for 7 years. But, the most affordable way to fly, and it's not even close, is the homebuilt/experimental aircraft that I owned/built where I can do all the maintenance and even fabricate my own parts. I had a Rans S-12 that was very economical (hangar cost and fuel was about it) and I now have a Hummel UltraCruiser (ultralight) that costs almost nothing. The wings come off and it goes in a cargo trailer. I also now have a Cessna 150 that is, typically, MUCH more expensive to own and operate than any experimental aircraft I've owned. GA is not your only option...
the money saved by sticking with your first repair shop is WELL worth the hassle of renting a car, and FAR less expensive.
Kind of reminds me of the adage when buying a sail boat..' It's like standing in a cold shower, tearing up $100 bills'
Exactly! I am looking into purchasing a used sailboat and going through the same struggle!
Good luck mate@@Dan_C604
i would encourage you to get more involved in your maintenance and what you need and what you do not need. i never skip on it myself since i fly my family but I also do not pay 8k per year on annuals. listen to Mike Busch series on EAA. Part of being a safe pilot and aircraft owner is to get to know the ins and out of your plane.
Mikes books are fantastic.
Fully agree!
I’m also a big fan of Savvy’s maintenance consulting. It’s really nice to have a mechanic that is working on your side during your annual. I’ve had several instances where the local MX has said I had to do something and Savvy stepped in with a few alternative to try before doing something major like a cylinder replacement. This isn’t a paid ad, just been really pleased with that service.
Often new first time owners drastically underrated the true cost of maintaining an aircraft. I was one,,,however mine eyes are open now!
Your excellent presentation is very revealing...thanks for real numbers.
I'm so glad it was helpful!
Many years ago (35) I had an 85 hp J3 Cub that I did all the work on myself because I hold an A&P License. A friend ask me what it cost an hour to fly it so I sat down and added up everything involved in flying and maintaining it. I told him it came out to $75 an hour. He said that can't be right, I said you try it and let me know.
Looks like I need to put more into planning on the annuals than I had expected. Hoping to purchase a 182T by the end of this year.
Same damn boat lol, was expecting about half that... would be nice to stay under 100/hr with fuel... guess depends on how many hours your getting between annuals too.
I'm excited for that airplane buying course! As a student, I don't have nearly enough money to buy an airplane but I'm already making concrete calculations and these kind of videos help a lot! :-)
It just sounds to like these figures are quite a bit high (way high). As pilots we will never swap money for safety but I certainly recommend looking around at other shops. Perhaps this airplane had a number of issues which were left to the new owner and now you are playing catch up. Good luck
Great video! Brought up a lot of good points, I’m currently working on my Commercial rating. It’s incredible the cost of running an aircraft and maintenance is nothing to slouch on.
I am probably about 2-4 years out from purchasing an airplane, but for me I can't start my research too early. You videos have solid about talking about the numbers associated with owning an airplane.
As a relatively new aircraft owner for the past 2 years, I don’t quite understand why people people are still interested in buying Certified aircraft these days?...especially for a small 1-4 person size aircraft. There are way cheaper options in the experimental aircraft market (from purchase price/build kit prices, cheaper avionics upgrade options, more bang for the buck in terms of aircraft performance & fuel burn, cheaper maintenance, etc.). My routine annual inspection for my experimental Vans RV-8 is only about $500 total (assuming I’m not getting any new equipment installed). Watching videos like this makes me happy that I went the experimental route vs. the certified route. Even if I some day upgrade to a larger plane, I would still consider getting another experimental aircraft vs. a certified aircraft. Best wishes to all you aircraft owners out there!
Exactly! My experience with aviation started with Experimentals, and they seem to be so much more bang for the buck than the overpriced archaic Cessnas. What city are you living in? :-)
Holy annual costs! I’ve owned three airplanes, including a Bonanza for the last four years, and none of my annuals has been more than $6k (that was an extensive one, involving addressing issues ranging from landing gear rigging to the exhaust system on my new-to-me 1960 Bo). I budget $3-4K for my annuals; back-to-back inspections of more than $10k would absolutely drive me out of airplane ownership. Luckily, it doesn’t have to be that way, nor should it be, especially on a fixed-gear airplane. Agree with others that owner-performed preventative maintenance and owner-assisted annuals are the best ways to keep your costs down. Addressing squawks as they present themselves is also critical to avoiding surprises at annual. And the things you’ll learn about your airplane by taking a hands-on approach to maintenance are absolutely invaluable!
Very much agree. Keep in mind the labor costs are a massive part of this too, as I'm at an expensive airport in an expensive city.
Let's not scare potential owners to death. I fly experimental. My yearly inspection costs around $350. If you've done a good job selecting a plane, you needn't spend too much keeping it up. Aircraft complexity is a big cost factor as is large maintenance facilities vs smaller shops. If you build your own plane, you can self inspect. In summation, cost of ownership can vary greatly!
Absolutely. For a factory built aircraft about 1/2 of the price covers Liability insurance.. Getting the knowledge to build a home built and being able to do your own annuals will save you big time. I had engine trouble in Mexico. I got help but knew what was going on. Stuck exhaust valves in the guides. Private ticket 1969, A&P 1970. have owned a C-140, C-170, C172. Love the tail draggers and homebuilts.
I’ve been flying my Cessna 182Q since 1985… no insurance or annual inspections. I do all my own maintenance…ZERO possibility of a ramp check here.
Wonderful video. I’m still on the fence on ownership. I retired from USAF in 2007 and pursued a career in the F&B business. Now returning to my roots pursuing a PPL. I have always maintained my cars with the same standard that I had my jets maintained. Your video seems to show that ownership might be within reach. Thank you!
@Hold Fast I agree. While I don’t understand the huge costs today of owning a simple GA aircraft, I know that ownership has moved well beyond your standard middle class. Without a business to expense it, most of us won’t afford even the cheapest GA aircraft. I’m curious as to why.
Actually, annual inspections are relatively cheap. It the repairs to make it pass the inspection are what cost so much. Look up FAR 43.11 (a) (4) and FAR 43.9. Each fall under different FAR’s. I believe you are getting soaked. You may be dealing with an FBO that normally handles PART 135 operations. I would like to see your invoices.
Thank you so much. Really liked this vid! l"m looking forward to more!
In the process of buying a 210. Your videos have helped a lot can’t wait to see your future owner videos
Up an Aerostar... you’ll have more fun 😁
Very cool! Never flown a 210 but on paper I think they're awesome. Have considered one for myself. Best of luck!
Thanks Charlie! I like the content and honesty! I look for ways to add income to help me fly/keep up maintenance. Any information is great, thank you!
Good commentary. This type of data is available *if* you are “talking to people” or subscribing to a service, neither of which I get to do, generally speaking.
I learned in a C182 but never had a TRUE handle on the expenses - just estimates in models that I built based on guesstimates. Thank you for your data. 👍
Well done and thanks for posting this video. Good luck with your consulting videos and flying.
I love your videos! Thanks for sharing these video's. They are very informative and definitely has peaked my interest in Aviation!!
Thanks so much! Really glad you enjoy the channel!
I have been thinking about the 182 took my flying lessons in the 172 but the 182 works for me. Thank you
Thanks for the vid. Consider- upgrade/alteration expenses should not be accounted for in your Annual. If you want to follow the Annual expense- then just the Annual's Parts & Labor should be all you code to that. Code "new stuff" to a different line. Be well.
I live in the UK just started lessons thank you for all your help
Congrats!! This is exciting!
Really looking forward to the airplane buying course! It is a very terrifying prospect for many of us, from the perspective of not buying a "money pit", and also the topic of "ongoing expenses"! I would really like to see a very in-depth analysis and explanation of what it REALISTICALLY entails.
There are a lot of RUclips videos that gloss over and make it look super simple (like anyone off the street could just buy an airplane for the price of a Honda Accord). I don't think those videos really do justice to all of the things that can go wrong with airplane ownership!
Totally agree. It can be an overwhelming process. Stay tuned!
Hey Charlie great video to help people understand what the real world of ownership can be. My 1965 182 started its 3rd annual with me just today! I’ve had 2 whopper annuals previously not unlike some of your bigger ones, plus others like new gps and radios. I also pulled my annual up from June this year to get out of prime flying season and if no biggie surprises, I’ll be doing a jpi 830 monitor. But let’s see, have a new strut AD this year too. I love my plane but ownership is not for the faint of heart and good to show people real $ expenses. Being a steward of older planes can be expensive.
Thanks for sharing. I can relate to everything you're saying! That new JPI monitor sounds awesome!
@@AirplaneAcademy well supposedly I got my first easy annual, just minor squawks and a few ADs! They are installing the 830 now, so the bill will still be sizable, but admit I am excited to get the 830.
Hi all, if you think owning a C-182 is expensive at annual time,try owning a C210. It takes your breath away.
I have developed an opinion that I am more interested in a maintenance shops reputation than what they charge. Cheap price reputation can bite you big time, just later.
Aviation costs are up there. IT'S NOT CHEAP. I love to fly but is cost prohibited. Motorcycles aren't and therapeutic just like flying but a whole lot cheaper.
Great video and important information for anyone who's thinking about buying an aircraft for the first time.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you found it informative!
Great info! I understand why I should rent for a while. I (and my wife) need to get used to the spend commitment. :)
Start putting a grand a month in an investment account. You'll get used to that money not being around and will be accumulating money towards your plane ownership goal.
Once I hit $150k invested I'll buy the plane and the returns on the account will offset a majority of my flight expenses. Flying 100 hours a year then has zero impact to my monthly budget. I'm saving alot harder than $1k a month though to get to $150k.
@@christopherbeddoe406 great advice! Thanks
I've started getting in the habit of saving/investing to fund my hobbies. It completely changes my mindset and if you set aside approximately 10x the annual cost of the hobby it is then "Free" forever paid for by annual returns. It also completely eliminates risk and stress associated with cost because the funding is already set aside.
I'm basically doing what you are doing. Renting until I buy. I'm hoping to purchase in about 2-3 years then I'll kick up how much I fly and work towards my commercial.
Well that is his experience. The aircraft he purchased needed some TLC for years probably that did not get and when he bought it as a responsible owner took care of it. You just don’t pay $11 or $12k for minor things. Don’t let his experience discourage anyone from buying one. Make sure you to a detailed pre-buy.
Know who is doing a pre buy inspection, (Annual). This can be worthless using a bad mechanic.
This is great! I can’t wait for your courses!
Awesome!! I'm glad you're excited. I am, too!
New to your channel as of this weekend! Love it. Really enjoy the passing of information from your own experience. Watched the ATC segment last night, great tips!
Welcome and thanks so much! I'm glad you are enjoying the videos and finding them helpful.
It would have been very interesting to compare your maintenance costs vs hours flown over that 5 year period. For example, if you've flown 100 hours/year on average, it would have cost you $76.78 per hour on average. But thanks for sharing Charlie!
Thanks David. I usually fly 100-120 hours per year, so can ballpark it for now.
This is a great video and glad you shared. I own a Mooney M20J, 1978, fully updated. Low time engine. My annuals have never been anywhere near the cost you have mentioned so something seems very different. We just completed ours at $2,700 total, plus we have an avionics issues unrelated to the annual that will likely bring it to around $5,000. Nearly every annual we had is less than $4,000. Plus I have a partner so everything cost me half. So, my advice to everyone...have a partner! I am sure his numbers are correct...just not sure it is an apples to apples comparison. Do your research...bottom line, owning a plane is expensive.
HI Charles. I would not fly if I had to rent. I would not have a plane if I did not have a hanger.I would not have a plane if I was shocked on the cost of an annual.
I would recommend that one should get different eyes on the plane every other year. Shopping for a mechanic might be harder than shopping for a plane in these times. I have been waiting for three years to get this one highly rated fella to give my 182 S a look over. I would also recommend a pilot owner, to sign up for Mike Busch's Savvy program...and of course oil analysis at 25 hours.
Love the Airplane Academy...a good school of thought...
Did you ever consider "experimental" category aircraft?
Seems like a way to save a lot of money, esp. for people who are technical enough (engineer here, so I might be biased) to do electrical and some simple mechanical work themselves, oil changes at the very least, but also most electrical works in an aircraft.
I'd still hire a professional to do carb sync, mess with the EFI system, or do any ECU tuning - things I don't have experience with. But, brake fluid change, tensioning control surface cables, replacing any of the lighting bulbs, as well as antennas - seems really straightforward enough to DIY... I wonder how much that would bring the cost down.
It would probably bring the cost down considerably. I only grew up around certified airplanes and so I don't have much experience in the experimental world, and am not a mechanic by nature. Maybe one day I will get more involved with this but it's not my upbringing or background. Definitely some pros of experimentals, price and ongoing costs being a major one.
REALLY looking forward to that side hustle course. My latest side gig recently dried up, so this will be welcome info!!
Charlie, based solely on the data shown in your Table, it appears that rural costs are way lower than urban costs. Viewed another way, the urban mechanic is raking it in at your expense. I would go elsewhere, or join an aero mechanic's course, so I could do some, if not most, of my aero-engineering. The numbers say it all.
See what Bryan Hauschild says below: To quote, "Actually, annual inspections are relatively cheap. If the repairs to make it pass the inspection are what cost so much. Look up FAR 43.11 (a) (4) and FAR 43.9. Each fall under different FAR’s. I believe you are getting soaked. You may be dealing with an FBO that normally handles PART 135 operations. I would like to see your invoices."
We just don't like to see a nice man being ripped off.
The 182 is such a nice plane. Now that I can afford it, I don’t have a medical. I made a mistake and told doc, I had sleep apnea. Trying to get medical back now
Thanks for the honest info. Love your channel!
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.
The FAA's motto should be, "Keeping aviation out of reach of the masses for over 63 years!"
If you get a cub crafters cub, you can do a 7 or 17 hour course with an FAA A&P and get signed off to maintain your airplane. My buddy Ricks annuals on his carbon cub are 400 bucks in parts thats it.
If you home build or build a kit plane like a just aircraft you can maintain the plane on your own, so the only thing you'd ever have shell coin out for are the MEOH. It's definitely affordable and doable just stay away from certified planes if it's outside of your budget.
The thing is, I'm rather sure that is the primary function. They do not want the masses flying.
You guys should try operating a Piper Seneca (PA-34-200T) I have had annuals as high as 50K. I have spent as much as 7K replacing worn out exhaust components one ONE engine. One landing gear fitting that attaches the link to the wing spar is $2,000 + 4 hours to replace. The list goes on and on.
Zen and the art of aircraft maintenance.
I don’t like to keep a close eye on what flying costs me because I really don’t want to know. Over the last decade of owning a Piper Comanche 250 and most recently a Mooney M20E, I have never experienced annual prices like this. I am a very “open checkbook” owner and anything remotely suspect will be replaced. Maybe I was just super lucky. I just budgeted $6k for annuals and it worked out well.
As you said, safety can not be at the expense of cutting corners, be safe
you really need to be doing owner maintenance. You can legally do a lot of work yourself,instead of getting an AP to change bulbs and bits of plastic trim. Shops are also charging you a fortune to write in your logbook. You can do so much of that yourself!
Jesus, for that kind of money it might be worth getting an A&P certification and do your own.
Your videos are great and very informative! Appreciate the content you share.
Thanks so much! I really appreciate it!
I know people love making fun of light sport, but I switched to SLSA 5 or 6 years ago and rarely miss flying a 172/182. 99% of my flying is solo so I do not need a big chunk of airplane to carry me around. I take it coast to coast and fly a few hundred hours a year at 1/3 the cost of a 172. The Rotax will go full 2000hr TBO with little or no investment besides oil change and my annual conditional inspection runs $900-$1k. 118 ktas on 4.5 gph is nothing to complain about. Many more people could enjoy much more flying if they consider LSA rather than certificated.
36000 dollars for 5 years of annuals is absurd ! You said you just prefer to “drop off “ your airplane and wait for the call. Get involved in the maintenance . So many shops love lot see your type of owner come in. Go to A&P school ! It’s tough but well worth it. Wake up and understand what makes your airplane fly and stay in the air. I could not imagine Being a pilot and not an A&P and visa versa. READ MIKE BUSHES BOOKS AND WATCH HIS POD CAST. I own and fly a 182G and guarantee it doesn’t cost 36000 to keep it flying for 5 years unless you bought a Project plane.
A 182T as soon as my "Rich Uncle" gets outta the poor house. Great Video, Appreciate you.
Asinine taxes, price gouging is what ruins all the freedom and fun with aviation, motorsports, driving, ammo, etc
This June will be my 5th year owning a 1961 172B. She’s no super model but structurally and mechanically sound. No fancy instruments or gadgets. Annuals go from $600 CAN to almost $8000 CAN. Mostly around $1100 annually. 2019 I switched where my annuals were done and had them go completely through my plane which was my biggest at $7800. Every other year was $1,100 or less. I expect another expensive annual as time specific parts need inspection and servicing.
Thanks for sharing your stats here! Helpful.
I like the colour scheme on your 182.
thanks for this video. Love your style Charlie.
Thanks so much! Glad you are enjoying!
Hi Charlie, I had a 172N for several years that defined “hangar queen”. I bought a R172K (Hawk XP) last year. It has been a very inexpensive airplane to maintain and operate. My wife is getting her ticket and we’re trading up to a 182RG for the speed and cabin volume. I’ve found over the years that it’s really up to the individual aircraft and mechanic. We’ll see how the 182RG does for her normal aircraft. I’m considering jumping up to a Seneca Turbo, 310 or 340. We have a much longer mission now with 40,000 plus nm traveled a year. We should meet up at Hard 8 sometime and compare notes.
Very cool! Congrats on your purchase and plans. I think my maintenance has been more expensive than most other people will experience because of the factors I mentioned in the video.
Those numbers are jaw dropping for me! Flew for over 40 years, and never even thought of buying a GA plane. Rented quite a bit, early on, then built three different Experimental Amateur Built airplanes. The last I flew for over 13 years and put over 750 hrs on it. It cruised at 75mph, with a VNE of 110mph - it took me to hundreds of Fly In Breakfasts. :) And, yes, it was definitely a "tail dragger." Now we're talking fun. Loved it when the "wind was up." Made you work at "round out" - "flare," and landing. :)
I'm guessing that you are not married - most wives will not sit still for those 10 and 14K bills. No way. I must admit, however, that my favorite little plane is the Piper Arrow - like a little sports car. I lost a little love for it when the wings began falling off. Enjoyed your input. Thanks, N-6395T
Thanks Michael. My wife is really supportive of flying which has helped a lot. Some years are more expensive than others but she's on board.
@@AirplaneAcademy Thanks for your very nice reply. Lovely wife, for sure. Thanks,
I used to say I'll just rent, but as I'm thinking more about the lifestyle I want when I finally get to the airlines, I think ownership is starting to make sense. It'd take a flying club to be unreasonably understanding of me having a plane sitting on tie down while I'm on a race track, but I'd like to live relatively rural and fly in to commute. So much safer and easier than driving, so I don't see why not. With the budget I'm currently living and flying on, I think even a first year FO salary these days would allow these costs to be reasonable, so I think I'm going to look for the perfect M20C to upgrade into the perfect commuter when that day comes. And yes, I think Mooney got it right, 180hp is enough to go fast economically if you focus on fine aerodynamics. Though it looks like Pipistrel took notes, maybe when I upgrade to widebody captain...
Just realized you are related to my friend David. We graduated from the same high school in 1973. Let him know I became a pilot 10 years later. Sic ‘em Bears.
Small world! I asked him and he said you had the coolest Camaro SS396 back then! Thanks for mentioning it. He says hello!
Great video as always, but I cannot believe how high these costs are. I have owned for three years and I am in about a third of what you pay on average. Granted my bird is older and a lot less pretty but still if I had a $14,000 annual and I didn’t know it was going to be that expensive I would be furious
I hear you. It wasn't a total shock, as I knew all of the squawks that needed to be fixed, but yeah no fun when you get a big bill. Keep in mind I'm at an expensive urban airport in the middle of a big expensive city. So it can definitely be lower than this.
Wow! I used to get my 172 annual done for a flat rate of $750 and I almost never had any required repairs. One year I had a crack in a horizontal stabilizer spar stop drilled and a "doubler" put on that cost me an extra $100...but that was about it.
I have been a rental pilot for 20 years. I work crazy hours and a lot of them. Aircraft ownership is out of the question. Especially when I usually only fly 20 hours a year. You should have included that into your video. The AOPA did a study, and basically said if one doesn't fly at least 75? hours a year, one shouldn't be an owner. I completely agree with that analysis.
I agree. I talk about that in some of my other videos, but yes the breakeven is somewhere around there depending on what plane you're talking about. I usually fly 100-120 hours per year. I talk more about my stance on rent vs. buy in this video: ruclips.net/video/AIS45Awx9Mk/видео.html
I wish all aircraft owners had the same mentality as you when it comes to not skimping on maintenance.
Old saying: If it says Airplane on the box, send it back; you can't afford it.
:D
That's how kit airplanes came to be. They don't say "airplane" on the box :-D
Hey man, think you for the videos I really do enjoy them. Now questions ? I have seen some videos on bran finds, your thoughts ?
Also planes that were abandoned at airports again your thoughts ? 1 thing though I saw a guy buy at both places & get really burned badly. The amount of both bird & rat nest & dropping the rust & Corrosion.
Excellent! Thank you!
so in 4 years of ownership you've spent almost $40k in repairs, not including fuel, insurance, storage, training/schooling, misc fees, etc. shocking, just shocking how over priced it is these days to have fun. in 1979 my brother flew solo before he was 18 years old in a 152 while working as a stockboy at kmart.
Interesting recap. I wonder how much of that money has a connection with the state of the plane when purchased. How much was needed in repairs at that time? That should be in the equation. I’m sure he did the numbers somehow and determined that purchase price and repairs needed still made it OK, that is my assumption.
Shocking... My local airport in North Western Ohio was in a need for an AI and wanted me to operate an FBO and charge $400 plus part for a single engine Annual and make a profit to keep the lights on and insurance premiums paid.
In 2017 using your math it took 33 hours to do an annual with "nothing big". Seems high to me.
That's about what I pay for my health insurance per year. So, it's either having healthcare or a Cessna 182.
I officiate high school football, basketball, and baseball to pay for my flying. It's hard work, but worth it.
Sadly, you mix up annual inspection, repairs from the inspection, and upgrades. Confusion for the person considering buying.
Hi Mike - sorry for any confusion. There were a few upgrades in Y1 but the rest was 100% maintenance. The annual has a base cost of a couple grand in the shops I've used and then additional maintenance and squawks that arise in that annual are on top of that.
I love that he put it all together. It doesn’t matter what was on the list, it’s what it cost to keep the airplane in tip too shape. That is super helpful.
So what I'm really getting out of this is that getting my A&P is really going to be worth it? 😂
Wow. I've been spinning wrenches for 35 years, the last 20 or so with VW. I'm methodical. In the warranty tasks I do, I deal with documentation and processes identical to aircraft.
Just saying, perhaps an A&P might be the next challenge. I'm no spring chicken, pimply kid thinking about money.
At 56, I think you guys understand. I want to fly, first flight was in 69 with my dad in the Ercoupe. We had a Cherokee in the 70s. It's in the blood, man.
I really need to check into this. So many schools pump out...well, kids who can pass a multiple choice test. Know what I'm thinking?
Stay tuned.
@@robertborchert932 the best way you can get you A&P in by being apprentice, good mechanics are always hard to find! go to some local airports and ask around
Yes! It will open many interesting opportunities in aviation, and save you a bundle in aircraft ownership.
@@robertborchert932 I transitioned to A&P from automotive diesel and gas. I was also a VW/Audi master tech. As I have gotten older and now feeling "forced" to buy a plane, I regret letting my A&P go.
If you want to annual your own aircraft, you need both an A&P license AND "inspection authorization" (IA). To get these credentials will take years of schooling and trade experience. To be a good aircraft mechanic, you need to work on these things for several years under the supervision of an experienced mechanic (or shop). If you do something like that in your teens or early 20's, and then get into a professional career that really produces a great income stream, then you may purchase a home/hanger on a private airstrip and work on your aircraft as a hobby. But by then, you should be making enough money to simply hire a mechanic and write the check. Flying is not for poor people.
Those numbers sound like you really try to take care of the 182. I continue to hear that you can annual a plane for $600. When I have spent the day watching my A&P go through the plane, I know you can't do it for that. It just takes a number of hours to really go through the plane and give it the detail eye.
I was friendly with an aircraft mechanic. He also taught aircraft maintenance at the local trade school. He ran a shop with some friends on the side. He specialized in T6 military trainers and traveled around the country repairing them. He was very conservative and was definitely not a wealthy man. I remember him telling me in 06 that an annual was around 2k, which seemed expensive to me then.
Im not there yet... but someday I hope to own a 182. As always thanks for the good advice
Kudos to you keeping maintenance "right." You make a good point about "worrying more about $100 - here and there vs safety." I often wonder how many pilots wind up in accidents due to an accumulation of postponed or never completed maintenance issues. Statistically it seems odd to me how many pilots never have serious problems and others go over the edge. I recall one pilot flying IFR on a single vacuum pump with gyros which was years beyond its change out life, it was also a single point of failure - it failed when he needed it most and it cost him his life.
Find a shop that will let you do the grunt work like pulling inspection covers and seats, and stick with it. That's what I did for years and saved thousands. One other word of advice to anybody contemplating owning an airplane, my Dad's quote: 'An airplane is an ever-demanding mistress.' Get used to it. My dos centavos. Sam
Those numbers are outrageous. I had a 172 and now a 180. I pull the interior, cowl, and inspection panel then my IA comes and does his thing. $800 plus parts. I know the condition of every part of the plane and I know it’s done right. I have a hard time dropping my life off to someone and just trusting it was done correctly.
It did seem very high.
I sell clothing and work as many hours as I can get. I am also in a partial ownership with a few other pilots.
Great info, persepective and video!
Thanks so much!
Great info. However, you should really post the number of HOURS FLOWN each year to see the relative costs of the annual vs hours. Same with all other labor costs during the year other than the annual.
Airplane ownership contrast well with my horse. The cost of the horse, >$5000, was reasonable as horses go but the vet bill, much like the mechanic's cost, can doom many a best laid plans.
Sounds like it would be less expensive to get a friend to ferry you to and from KCOM and share the cost of the flight. In 2019, the labor rate cost you $2,815 more at KADS than at KCOM based on $110 and $65/hr, respectively. I fly a club Arrow for $136/hour at KADS which can make the trip in one hour. Doing the math, that would have saved you over $2,000 in labor in 2019, and it appears every year would have been a savings based on the numbers you provided. And if parts at KCOM are less expensive than Addison, then that's a bonus savings. Just tossing out a suggestion on the matter as food for thought. Regardless, enjoy that 182. There's nothing like cruising at 6,000 looking down on the world.
Thanks John. I agree with your math. Having a mechanic on the field at KADS has helped me a lot though outside of just annuals. I did the commuting stuff for a few years and it got really old. I could save money doing it but fixes that occur outside of annuals have made it way more convenient to have a KADS-based shop.
@@AirplaneAcademy And having a mechanic readily accessible is hard to put a price on. Makes very good sense. Just curious which mechanic you use. I cannot recall his name, but there is a shop just off Alpha at Victor. His bay doors face south.
People use that phrase all the time when they are making enough to cover their monthly payments but that's not really living within your means. Buying only things you have the money for is living within your means. That is real financial independence. Borrowing money to buy something is NOT living within your means. Very, Very, Few Americans live within their means, myself included. Plane and simple, if you did not purchase your aircraft for cash and you are not using your plane for profit as a business expense, then you are not living within your means. You are wisely monetizing your plane with this channel, and I enjoy the content. Sadly, that is all I will ever be able, responsibly, to do in aviation. This is true for most of not all of your viewers.