Common Mistakes Pilots Make with Air Traffic Control
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Pilot radio training for air traffic control is a HUGE part of pilot school, yet not a lot of time gets spent learning the good habits. In this video I go over the two most critical errors I hear pilots making and how they can improve!
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Vibe With Me by Joakim Karud / joakimkarud
Love the new camera, new intro, new editing, new everything ! Looks much more dynamic ! Thank you sir !
thanks RK... just trying to step up the quality for the channel this year as it grows!
@@74gear
(Please read below my original post to see how I corrected myself.)
Isn't "Flight Level 340" up in the Space Shuttle territoy?? You know, they grounded that bird....
(Edited 2 months agter original post)
Just checked, FL340 is 34,000 feet (think 10,000 meters and change). I thought it meant 340,000 feet, (FL3400). I was confused at the time, and my post looked wrong so I checked. Instead of deleteing it I edited it to help people.
By the way, 340,000 feet is 64 miles and change, NASA recognizes 60 miles as "space". I believe that 100km is about 62 miles and change, so 103km or so??
agreed
Second that. Except the "pop" noise sound effects get kind of annoying.
Could do without that annoying music score in the background though.
I'm a Brazilian air traffic controller and I can say that those are very important tips!!!!
English is a bastard of a language, however with thorough thought although tough it can be thoroughly rewarding 🤪🤪🤪
Ever been over here or there...
I saw another example, I'll find it, all the words are spelt them same but pronounced differently 😂
Brazil, worst ATC and English speakers in South America, by far... Always tempted to set 7600 “on the box” and go for the approach...
Lord Inter English is hard, but you can get through it through tough, thorough, thought though.
@@greensphinx that's the one! I had to wing it, didn't have time to look it up, thanks!
@@LordInter better still would be finding the example of words spelt slightly differently but pronounced the same way. Or the one where words have same ending in spelling but pronounced differently such as ...ough on end of some words.
Hi Kelsey
I’m from Hong Kong and I fly international flights, I think most difficult radio calls to make was when I fly to the States. They speak fast and full of slang which are non standard and annoying, blocking radios etc.
Also many short form and non ICAO std phrase were used. Hope regional pilots understand this is a bad habit and when they start flying international and see more outside the world they can figure it out. Have a nice day
I’m a 100 hr pilot and my instructors REALLY stressed the “to” & “for” issue. Recommended “climbing ” or “descending”
those are great habits to learn now, flying internationally I hear pilots making those to or for errors and its something that could have been fixed early on. Thanks for watching and sharing it t0eknee
74 Gear personally I love the old Concorde recordings “Speedbird2 Heavy now climb and maintain 1-3000”
@@spudeeelad omg that is so cute I did not know that speedbird meant concorde
@@shiftygirl6434 It doesn't. "Speedbird" is British Airway's callsign. They just happen to be one of the only two operators of Concorde.
Or prefix an altitude with "altitude"
E.g. "climb to altitude 4000ft"
It's what we do in the UK
Yours sincerely,
UK ATCO
I remember as a high School student we toured air Force Base in new Mexico. Gave us an example of miscommunication that caused a crash. Pilot asked if he was over the mountains yet meaning passed them. Response was yes but meaning above them. So pilot started his descent.
Maybe the explaination was over simplified for our benefit but it drove home the need for clear communications
Perhaps though having heard a pilot on the radio ask ATC if they were "clear" of the hills it wouldn't surprise me, again a really bad question as I would expect that to probably get interpreted in terms of elevation too. When you consider that ATC is looking at a 2D screen in which they know the minimum safe altitude to provide sufficient terrain clearance within each part of the sector then it's fairly easy to see how they could easily default to answering the very familiar question of "Is the altitude number by this dot as big as it should be for that sector?" unless you explicitly pull them out of that mindset.
When I was training for my private pilot, talking to ATC or the tower was one of the most daunting things for me to learn.
I'm not a Pilot but as a newbie I'd be like: " Good Morning, this is ......................t o t a l b la n k . . . 😱 . . . " 😆
Yes, I have not started my private pilot training yet, but I am working on the ground school part, and working on how to communicate on the radio properly.
@@kimberlywentworth9160 Good luck, Kimberly, I know you can do it!!
@@kimberlywentworth9160 a good way I've practiced over the years is to get on a flight sim and join the VATSIM network to get comfortable using proper phraseology. Those ATC are all trained on real-world procedures and go through intense training. It's as close as you can get without hopping in the pilots seat. I had done that for years and first time I went up with my instructor he was impressed with my comms
@@nafs53 If you listen to radio frequencies that have student pilots on them (Luton Approach around here, for example) you'll hear things like: "Luton, Golf Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta... errrrr.. ahhh..." because they didn't work out what they were going to say before pressing the button, and you have about half a braincell to spare in that situation!
I haven't flown for a couple of decades, but when I did I'd "practice" what I was going to say before pressing the PTT.
Oh, and in the UK you have to pass a radio exam (practical, simulating flights) before you can fly solo.
Kelsey, I am not a pilot, don't play flight sims, I'm just a regular goober who loves to learn new things. I have really REALLY enjoyed your videos since I discovered your channel and I just wanted to drop a comment to let you know that. Please keep up the good work. May you always have fair skies!
Me, too. I have even more respect for the work pilots and flight attendants having learned from your videos.
This is one of the best aviation channels on RUclips.
It seems fewer mistakes would be made if everyone wasn't speaking as fast as an auctioneer.
Dude, do you know how long I sometimes have to wait hovering next to the runway, till all the fixed wing guys are finally departing? If they talk even slower I can turn around and set down on the ramp again. Airspace is often super congested, especially outside the US. Europe, Asia...
@@MqKosmos So talking fast, which only saves a few seconds, boils down to risk versus reward? My life is worth a few extra seconds to get it right.
Reply heard on Kennedy clearance freq to full route clearance - "you can repeat that three more times fast or once slow."
@@MqKosmos This type of attitude is exactly what causes accidents...
A good controller will match your speech rate - reasonably of course.
While my aviation experience is limited your advice is just as valid for law enforcement. With 20 years I spent about half of it as a Field Training Officer and the slang used in normal work became serious problems in pursuits and other high stress calls.
ya thats another great example where the discipline is important Terry... thanks so much glad you enjoyed the video!
Have you see some of the videos online released by British police doing pursuits? Interesting the way they practically annotate the whole thing for the control room.
IKEA phraseology is important.
Glada, Billy, Sköna, Lyktan, Koka, Gustav.
Late at night on a quiet center frequency....
Pilot: "I'm effing bored."
ATC: "Last aircraft transmitting identify yourself! "
Pilot: "I said I'm effing bored, not effing stupid."
Yawn.....
First heard this in the mid 90’s at an FAA Safety Meeting at Danbury CT. Piper flying through Bridgeport (KBDR) is asked to identify themselves. The response was “I may be dumb but I’m not stupid”👨✈️.
I want to like the comment but I want to leave you at 69 likes.
@@neilviegas2524 nice.
I don't understand the joke at all. I don't live in an English speaking country. Can somebody explain?
Excellent presentation! I have been a radio operator, amateur and professional in various roles since 1967, an avionics tech in GA for 14 years in the first part of that. A few times I have listened in as people made landings with gear that didn't come down right... that sort of high stress situation. What you say about keeping your communications clean and clear really shows through at those times and what we do every day defines what we will do under pressure.
Everything is a technicality until something goes wrong.
Good video, good pints.As a paramedic, I considered my radio etiquette was very good. During a training session, I had to provide a standard radio report to the hospital. The senior paramedic complained that I should have used more abbreviations. After delivering the patient, the ER nurse commended me on my clear radio work. I had been doing the job for 15 years.
I am a medical doctor. You wouldn't believe the kind of mistakes that I've seen in my career bc of abbreviations. Eg: LE being Lung (pulmonary) Embolism vs Lupus Erythematodes... I don't abbreviate medical terms anymore, although medical journals are filled with it.
Kelsey, you are a wonderful You Tube presenter and if I were about 50 years younger and either preparing for pilot training or was a pilot I would watch every one of your videos more than once. Your advice is excellent and your presentation terrific and with global usefulness. Wonderful job young man. You are an inspiration to all. Thank you.
Agreed on the “to” & “for”. Once got a “please call this number after you land” because I honestly thought a “turn to 180” was a climb to 180 and my read back was misunderstood.
Now I simply reply to heading and altitude assignments with tail number and “climb flight level XXX” or “fly heading XXX”. Leave the prepositions for your English teacher.
Gotta say that I use an occasional common slang term but at this stage of the career I’m staying domestic. “Tally Ho the 7 fower 7” “A Firm”, gotta have a little tradition😉
That's bad phrasing on their part for sure I recall once being told to turn 180, which made no sense at the time so fortunately, I asked the controller to say again with a direction and heading as they actually meant "Turn right heading 180" these two things are not the same. Though this is of course why both of those elements are supposed to be included so that there is no ambiguity what the pilot is expected to do.
"Leave the prepositions for your English teacher." I like that. Something to keep in mind next time my teacher corrects my grammar.
I'm a retired air traffic controller (30 years) and a pilot (50 years). Although listening to busy terminals CAN be helpful, it's not nearly as true as it might have been 30 years ago. I listen to some RUclips channels where the flights go to some busy places and I spend half my time cringing. It's primarily over the use of "join" when they mean "intercept". It's a really "in the weeds" arcane difference, but the rule is "join airways, intercept radials and localizers". I have an article on my ATC website thebigskytheory.com/intercept.shtml which discusses this in detail.
One in particular (also discussed in the link) below is "roger that" or "copy that". First, we'll dismiss "copy" as it's not standard phraseology at all. On the other hand, "roger" is. It means "I acknowledge receipt of your previous transmission". Thus, "roger that" is redundant. Every "roger" is implicitly a "roger that" thus there is no place for "that".
There are others, which can be seen in a companion article on my website: thebigskytheory.com/ack.shtml. It's not like I spent my time in a Level 1 tower, either, or for that matter when I went to flight school. 25 of my 30 years as a controller was in Chicago, during those years the busiest air traffic control facility in the world. Flight school was at OPF (Opa Locka) in the '60s, then the busiest airport in the world.
While a controller I was also always an authority on the ATP (Air Traffic Procedures manual) and didn't lose arguments concerning the contents. While I may have been a touch fast and loose in early years, 14 months in Quality Assurance really tightened me up (in a positive way).
Thanks for your efforts in improving the job.
Coming out of Army Comms.....
There is a Huge difference (for us) between the pro-words "Roger" and "Copy" and (just because you didn't ask) "Wilco"
You can "Roger" a message...you heard it clearly
That doesn't mean you're going to "Do Anything"....(you may not have the authority...what I'd call a "Zulu callsign"...I'm just the guy stuck humping this big heavy box around)
You can "Copy" a message...that means "I'm writing this down....and will read it back to confirm"
As in
"I copy XYZ....how copy...over"
"Good copy....out"
Or you can "Wilco"...shorthand for "will comply"
But....of course....people use those terms interchangeably...that drives me nutz
You "Copied" my radio check?....that seems a bit silly
Or you "Rogered" a movement order 10 minutes ago....but I don't actually know if you've started to move
Now....since the guy on the radio is sitting next to the guy flying the plane...who's also monitoring the radio....I suspect those distinctions are not often relevant...in your world a "Roger" is a "Wilco"...brevity is a virtue
But to me...they have distinct meaning
Great video. ATC comms are really something that gets under my skin, and particularly because I was one of the worst offenders. The years I spent in the U.S. ATC environment wreaked havoc on my professional comm skills. Now don't get me wrong. I am not knock the U.S. ATC controllers. On the contrary, I think they are right there among the best in the world. If you have a problem, they are going to give all the assistance you need. That said, the slang I tossed around, and the "need to sound cool" on the radio habits I enjoyed all came to a crashing halt once I got hired overseas. That is when I really started listening to professional ATC communications. 10 years in the regionals didn't that for me. Like Kelsey said, it isn't because they want to be more professional at it, it is because they have to be. Standard ICAO RT phraseology is a must especially when flying outside of the U.S. Nicely done.
You know you spend too much time in hotels when you can recognize that he is in a Courtyard from this video.
Lolz I thought there will be difference from country to country
Wait I wasn't even paying attention and I used to work for courtyard. I should have picked up on that lol.
As a pilot in training for my initial private and instrument rating, this video has been invaluable. Great video that really helped me clean up my radio calls quickly especially training in busy SOCAL airspace.
Hi Kelsey,
I've discovered your channel by chance only a couple of days ago, and as a regular follower of other pilot's channels I have to say that I like already very much your style that makes you stand out amongst the others. Accurate, clear, friendly, witty and spiced with the right amount of ironic taste (love the bloopers and the in-betweens) It must be a pleasure being a member of your crew, keep up the good work!
As for me, I'm no pilot at all, just an hobbyist sim cockpit builder and an aviation enthusiast avidly curious of everything in that field.
My reference for ATC comms was undoubtedly "JFK Steve" (who else?) and the unique style he set.
Just to mention one, and while speaking of bad communication, the iconic one-liner:
[Unidentified aircraft] "Ground?"
[Steve] "Plane?"
Greetings from Italy,
Roberto
Thank you for this. Crap phraseology drives me bananas! I hear “In the box,” and “on the fish finder” literally everyday. And I make that exact face every time. It’s not funny, it’s not cute, it’s just wrong. Am I supposed to tell you to “maintain fish finder separation?” Honestly. And I’m hearing student pilots use this phraseology with instructors onboard. Unacceptable. Keep it simple and to the book and you’ll sound far more professional.
And please, please, pleeeeeaaaassssseeee!!!! Understand, that yelling GUUUAAAARRRD, or playing music, or Tarzan yelling, or some other dumb sound clip over the guard frequency is never funny.... ever.
well thats why I made it Rain, hopefully more student pilots get a chance to watch this video, too bad you cant CPDLC it to them 😉
Something I learned in early flights into primary airspace was figure out what you are going to say, and be ready to receive any clearance etc, before you hit that mic button.
So glad you posted this - I have been so close to signing up for lessons, and the only thing that intimidates me is the Radio.
I come from a family where both parents are gifted in the art of protracted elocution and the thought of trimming down so
much information to a maximum of 7 seconds (per a pilot friend of mine) is absolutely foreign to me. I
The 1977 Tenerife disaster is an horrific example of miscommunication!
There was a LOT more to that than just misunderstanding.
Bad phraseology and some REALLY unpatient Captain
@@jimmygee3219 a lot was involved. Take away any, and the tragedy probably wouldn't have happened.
The Swiss cheese model of accident prevention - Accidents can be prevented through multiple layers of safeguards. It is horrible that at Tenerife all of the holes lined up.
Love the video. I exclusively use the ICAO radio calls based on my military flying and AIM standards. I think my only real misunderstandings are the transitions both flight level and barometer settings. Having to switch over took some time, but not gamestopping. The better your conformance to standards on the radio, the better your opportunities to get what you request. The other piece is flying into uncontrolled airfields. Not just the required calls, but communicating with folks whose intentions are unknown. Communicate clearly, identify the conflict with other pilots in plain language. That communication will keep both of you safe.
Thanks for making/sharing this video. This topic has always been one of my "pet peeves" as I've shared it many times with younger, less experienced pilots who've flown with me over the years. It also brings to mind the Flying Tigers 747 that crashed for this very reason (Kuala Lampur approach) - poor radio phraseology. (I listened to the cockpit / ATC recording when going for my first type in Dec. 2000.)
Teneriffe is another great example of this KLM: "We are at Takeoff" ????, sadly the two very different interpretations of this non-standard phrasing resulted in both the tower and the other aircraft still on the runway transmitting at the same time so neither the tower acknowledging it with a "Stand by" or the pan am's call of "We are still on the runway" were readable. Seconds later the worst aviation disaster in history occurs as the KLM 747 smashes into the Pan Am 747.
Cheers Kelsey - good post. I'm not a pilot but I have used radio communications for decades in various jobs including EMS. I tell myself and I tell rookies: "Think - Push - Speak - Release". It seems simple and obvious but even in an urgent situation a second or two to think about what you will say avoids "ummmmm" and "eeeeerrrr" and "ahhhhh". Think then push (not vice-versa) to avoid dead air. Speak not too fast, not too slow and release. Brevity is not just the soul of wit it is also the heart of professionalism. I have worked with colleagues and was able to accurately estimate how bad an incident is by how unpanicked, precise and professional their comms were, the more precise the worse it was - they are my role models And for cryin' out loud, listen to the channel. :-)
I love your use of MEMEs. Some creators riddle their videos with them, and while they are funny, can detract from the actual content being discussed. You however seem to place them nicely in your video and just at the right time to truly emphasize certain points - and not ONLY to get a laugh.
As with all your discussions, you balance factual information with wit and humor. Love it!
I love your videos. I love looking into the real world of other fields of work. I'm a music teacher by trade. I dreamed of being a pilot as a kid, but health would not let me do it. Your videos are educational on many levels! Best wishes, safe travels, and may God bless every plane you fly!
What about the ones that crash?
The military forcefully instilled proper phraseology into my soul while I was aviation ground support. The pilots could talk however they want, but the ground controller has an aneurysm the second someone contacts them with a conversational tone.
Agreed. Former RCAF Radar/NavAids Tech, and communicating with GC to get around the airfield where all the various bits of our gear was located was vital.
An old tip that I found very effective for me - buy a scanner that can listen in on airport frequencies, go to a moderately busy airport and just spend the day listening to the chatter. Write down everything you don't understand, go back to your CFI and ask. Granted you'll probably not learn the "official" way of saying things but you'll learn the real world way, which may or may not get you into trouble later.
well you don't need a scanner, you can listen from your computer for free like I talk about in the video
Solid training loop to practice. Atc live would be easier though.
You can also just download a free app. I hope you kept your receipt so you can return the scanner.
This was all years ago. Back in the stone ages. Before Google. Before the NSA.
That's basically what I did. Got a scanner & would track planes through their progress (Ground-Tower-Departure & Arrivals-Tower-Ground). Didn't have the option of LiveATC or any of that, but there was Radio Shack.
As a student pilot I was awkward, even terrifiedf to talk on the radio, so I bought a recording of ATC language. As I proceeded with IFR training I learned to repeat what and how the controllers talked. Listening to the controllers is a big help.
You forgot the infamous “WITH YOU”!
- TIFD 🛫
YES! I hate this phrase.
In some areas of radio terminology they use "bye" to answer a radio call, which is archaic use for "with you" (goodbye = god be with you). It must've seeped over into aviation somewhere.
I recently called my local airport tower and spoke to an ATC regarding airspace around my area. The conversation turned into a 45 minute chat since COVID-19 has all but stopped air traffic and she had no planes in or around her airspace at the time. She said she wasn’t a pilot (I’m not either but have passed ground school). She wanted to become a pilot but she was afraid she wouldn’t be able to complete a checkride. I told her one of the most difficult aspects of getting your PPL was knowing how to correctly interpret and relay information back to ATC using proper phraseology. I told her since she had been an ATC for many many years (she had said earlier in the conversation that ATC lingo is second nature to her) that she has all ready mastered one of the most difficult aspects of flying and it put her well ahead of the average person wanting to learn to fly. For example, I studied really hard to learn ATC communications and ultimately decided to end my flight training because I didn’t want to put myself or other pilots in danger because I miss understood an ATC transmission or gave ATC incorrect information regarding my intentions or positioning. However, I still love listening to my local ATC on LiveATC.net.
After I got my PPL I found myself talking like the idiots I made fun of .
Idiot
In Vietnam all of our pilots were shit hot and 20 Mike Mike
Approach: November bla-bla-blah, do you have Hotel?
Pilot: Naw, we figured we'd just find a Motel 6 near the airport.
This videos are high high quality, content and editing!! Keep it up Kelsey thanks for the great work!
ya 2019 I have some big plans as long as the channel keeps growing so I invested in a better camera to improve everything!
Great topic! I'm a ham radio operator who often acts as Net Control in our Emergency Services nets. It just really irritates me when people ignore procedure. ATC in my opinion are the unrecognized rock stars of aviation. When they handle a pilot who's declared an emergency (fire perhaps and turning around to the airport) they say "Copy your fire, turn left heading xyz" and internally they're going Omidgod omigod omigod and never let it show in their voice, just projecting calm all the time. That's a radio rock star!
I agree Richard, they don't get credit for a lot that they do right, and that's why in a lot of my videos I talk about what a great job they do! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment.
It's a perceived "cool" factor among American pilots, especially with young impressionable student pilots. Controllers aren't impressed, neither is the FAA.
Unfortunately with primacy, bad habits which are tough to shake continue throughout a pilot's flying career. I hear it on the frequency all the time.
Practicing standard phraseology, communication, brevity, and clarity... is true professionalism!
Since becoming a dispatcher, I've learned a lot from the crews we have, especially during my once a year jumpseat ride. But, one area I struggle with as an instrument student is just feeling confident on the radios in general.
First time to watch your blog... OMG what high standards we seem to have set in QANTAS... I did 32 years on the 747. 100 /200/SP /300/400/COMBI.. most of the issues you discuss are just what is required by even the most junior pilot/ S/O … Some pilots seem to think it is "cool" to abbreviate level or heading clearances..... Many mountains have indentations and blood stains as a result of such poor R/T ….. LONG LIVE the Q
wow you flew the 747SP? Was it like a GT version of the 727-100/200?
I wish the made one today...
Not surprisingly is still the safest airline in the world....
Well said cobber.
Three cheers for fabulous Qantas !
I have flown in VATSIM for lots of hour including VFR. This year I am doing PPL, my experience in simulator really improved my communication. Instructor appreciated it.
Kennedy Steve "give way to the top one percent from your left", "face the front if you look at the passengers they'll get nervous"...listened to all Kennedy Steve videos on youtube ;)
Dang it Norbert!! LOL I was thinking the exact same thing. ROFL
"Delta415 straight ahead to the ramp. Caution prop-wash from the Cirrus ahead."
Delta Tug 2, ...... 😂😂😂
@@larrykeene4733 Dang it November.
Kennedy Steve videos are the primary reason I became interested in aviation in my 40's. Found I could not stop listening to them and accidentally started learning... :)
So your advice is to listen to JFK ATCs to familiarize yourself with standard phraseology? not sure about that one :D
Especially when listening to Kennedy Steve 😉
Probably a better idea to listen to Gatwick or Heathrow ;)
@@ska042 much better
OMG...cannot love this one enough. I'm not a pilot, will never be a pilot, but radio-speak is so important. I was on a local volunteer-EMS team and on my very first "I'm the only one in the rig" call I was so proud of myself because I got the ambulance out of the garage, arrived on scene and did helpful stuff, all by myself (!!) and then completely screwed it up when I called in at the end of the call to let dispatch know I was leaving the scene. "Prospect, Aid 57 clear screen". Out loud. On air. Clear SCREEN. Months to live that one down.
I agree however that said Kennedy steve’s “hold for the 1%” is funny as heck.
Also, easier to identify than 40 different business jet models with no airline markings.
Steve was great :) Funny & Professional.
Funny when he argues with Irish pilots and Etihad pilots relay the message. It's like a zoo😂
Another classic. "Qantas 12, follow the single engine Cessna, caution propwash."
@@aloha_27 We used to ask the new line boys to get us a gallon of propwash.
My first instructor made sure I didn’t get into the 2 and 4 habit. It definitely is irritating when you hear it especially from the other pilot in your cockpit.
Can't believe you didn't mention people saying "with you" when switching frequencies.
No kidding, I have to untrain my instrument and commercial students from saying that. Gotta keep it professional. Thanks for mentioning it.
@@Reed0069 Or Hams using QSY? Do the controllers (in the US) even know what this means? I've seen it (OK, in movies) in air-traffic radio comms in Europe.
30 years atc at ZNY, "with you" is OK
@@curta8908 I wasn't the one saying it isn't.
@@jxh02 Sorry Jim, I just clicked on reply and typed my general answer
My instructor's biggest pet peeve? "With you". Training out of a class C, I got a lot of exposure to radio comms early and I enjoy it. I still roll my eyes every time I hear "with you".
Don’t forget to say decimal instead of point. Awesome Chanel!!
thanks Greg, glad you are enjoying it thanks for subscribing.
My MOS in the Navy was AC, or air traffic controller. Although a brief, and modest job in the Navy, it gave me some valuable insight, from the air traffic controllers' side of the mike (aka microphone). As a matter of fact, that was the nickname of the MOS patch, "the flying mike". Air controllers are more keenly aware that frequency air time is SHARED, between you, them, and the other pilots on frequency. Understandably, they want transmissions to be clear & concise, but read backs are welcome, if not mandatory; Minimizes confusion, avoids incidents.
When you initiate communication with an air traffic controller, they want answers to three simple questions: Who ? What ? Where? Who (Registration/Call sign & aircraft type) ? Where (location at time of transmission ; altitude & reporting point, often a land mark) ? What (your intentions; Inbound for landing, touch-n-go, or en route to another airport). Most of the time, as general aviation, you're squawking 1200, which tells air traffic controller, you are VFR. Upon contact with the controller, he/she will have you change your squawk, so they will know you are on frequency with them.
As an air traffic controller, I found out that when you squawk 7700, your target on the RADAR scope flashes. This alerts the controller where the emergency aircraft is. Most people believe aircraft emergencies take top priority in controlled airspace. It does NOT !!! Keeping all aircraft in the same airspace safely separated is the top priority, but controllers will do their best to help you get to the deck as safely & expeditiously as they can, Such as sending other aircraft to holding positions, and/or vector aircraft to follow you.
One of the last things I discovered, is how to use 7600 (NORDO, aka No Radio) transponder code. If you lose all your audio comms, (most likely to happen to general aviation, though not often; rare for commercial flights), squawk 7700 for 1 minute. Then squawk 7600. This will tell the controller on RADAR to alert the tower controller to get his "biscuit gun" READY. (A biscuit gun is a hand operated traffic light, operated by the tower controller.) And, as a pilot, you better be up on your biscuit gun signals, and be 500 ft ABOVE pattern altitude, when you enter the airport's airspace.
Final note: If you are going to fly an aircraft into a controlled airfield, knowing you don't have a usable radio, nor transponder, you should call that tower, and get permission, before you file your flight plan, assuming it's not against FARs by now.
Dunno Y Maverick from Top Gun popped in my mind when I was watching this video, specially the classroom scene of exchanging birds...
I grew up next to a small general aviation airport with a class D tower and I spent many hours just listening to the tower on 119.8 and trying to figure out what was going on. When I turned 16 and got my first car, I started driving with my little radio to SFO and parked near the end of the 1's (pre - 9/11 era) and listened to SFO ATC. When I turned 18 I started taking flying lessons and I never had any trouble learning to talk on the radio because I had spent so many hours listening to ATC and it came very naturally to me. I think new pilots today, or those aspiring to become pilots, should take advantage of the internet and listen to the audio feeds. They are a tremendous resource.
The error I did a lot when I flew: "No joy" when I couldn't sight traffic that had been pointed out to me by ATC. I'm not "Maverick" and never flew fighters, so I have no excuse.
I say "negative contact" since it is somewhat less gay than "no joy".
Yes, all excellent points and yes 'to' and for' most common and confusing. I try to 'simplify' and use the words 'flight level' by saying ' zero four thousand climbing flight level two niner zero'. But as you say it takes lots of practice t be consistent, especially when it gets busy. I always feel that are air traffic controllers are the masters of phraseology. Thanks for the vid. EXCELLENT STUFF!
I've always been scared of talking to ATC. I don't even like to answer my phone lol
that's me in a nutshell.
don't fly my plane
You get to hear some truly epic stuff on the radios some days.
Was flying out of a coastal city many moons ago and on departure ATC said this:
“Flight 123, Tower, probably not an issue for you but we have a float plane inbound to the harbour and a Shorts 360 turning final, but he’s well below you. Call when both in sight”
My buddy smiles...
“Tower, Flight 123, roger. I’ve got the Shorts down low and the Beaver in sight.”
For the next few minutes, every other aircraft and tower communication we heard was guys trying in vein not to belly laugh all the way through their clearances 🤣🤣
Another day flying in the same area, I’m heading in to land. Already got my clearance and just plodding along. A woman is working the tower frequency and she’s talking to a regional taxing out. It’s a slow day and I’m the only one in the sky, along with another pesky float plane. So she’s telling this regional about us when her mic cuts out and exactly the most perfect time ever...
“Alaskan 123, there is a helicopter inbound, no factor, and I have a Beaver....”
Her mic cuts out right then for about 30 seconds.
“Alaskan 123, sorry about that. I have a Beaver transiting overhead. Call when ready.”
You could hear everyone in the tower howling with laughter in the background 😂
I'm an air traffic controller that isn't english native speaking I keep an extra eye on the deltas and uniteds coming my way. And seriously it's an american thing with the "cool" attitue on the comms. British airways pretty much never do it.
HenkeB You Guys Speak Way To Fast And Unclearly . Slow Down
@@trevorgwelch7412 you'll be saying different at peak times at airports. Having 8 to 14+ air crafts coming or going you got to get moving on time.
As long it's quick professional and safe, you'll get use to the fast passe of a busy airport
@@TheTezz100 exactly.. Sometimes I get more than 30 aircrafts on the frequency at once and no one is going no where if I didn't speak fast (but clear of course)
Retired Air Traffic Controller with 35 years of service.
Good tips here.
Sometimes seconds count beyond words.
Getting clearances correct the first time is very important during busy times.
Having to go back and either repeat a clearance or clarify one can frustrate a controller immensely and put them “behind the power curve”.
Great video, I’m a new pilot and this is super helpful. Your background music is kinda much though.
You remind me of two of my CFIs, which are great. They pounded the correct phraseology into my head, by putting the fear of the DPE that did the vast majority of checkrides in the area. He hated incorrect radio phraseology. It worked, the checkrides went smoothly.
Thanks for this video. It's very helpful! New subscriber, Brazilian Air traffic controller
thanks Paula, later this year I will be flying back to Brazil more often a lot of VCP, thanks for keeping us safe up there 👍
Nice. Two comments. One, if you can fly near busy airspace and listen to pilots talk to NY or Boston etc. I’ve found it super helpful because you can hear professional pilots while you are actually flying. Then I just try to mimic their phraseology. Two, a common issue in GA is pilots rambling a bit. Dude, spit it out and let’s go because we also need to speak with ATC.
P.s. Really like this channel and the topics you cover, ty!
Good subject. I think however, that you delivery should have had good communication in mind insteadd of getting through it as fast as possible. You raised more questions than answers and at the end I was not sure of what the main points were except for "to" and "for" as opposed to '2' and '4'. And still I am not sure what your fix for that was. Ops Guess I need to listen to it again.
@All_Roads
The problem is: You might say "Boing 1 4 thousand climbing 2 5 thousand" and the ATC might understand "... climbing to 5 thousand" because that would be the proper phrasing.
When I was taking lessons, I was comfortable taxiing the plane, run-ups, take-offs, and all the instructions my instructor gave me and even the landings. But talking on the radio and understanding their jargon was very stressful for me. When you said, "Can be overwhelming", I really related.
Nice video!! But you gave us examples of what people's doing wrong, but you don't give us the "solutions" (the proper way to communicate with the atc)
well there are so many scenarios of both good and bad. I didn't want to spend too much time on the video but instead of 3000 for 4000 you would say 3000 climbing 4000. That is just an example.
Use Pilot Controller Glossary for wording, AIM for procedures. Then listen to the controller and use their technique. In high density terminal areas you will need to develop a short hand to the AIM procedures. Some of these short cuts are general some are specific to a particular area. Sometimes you need brevity and efficiency but the underlying phraseology is still there. Start by making sure you are using good procedures at your home airport. Example of my typical ground call up "ground, N123AB, A ramp, taxi with B". Arriving at Class D same thing keep it simple (who where what) "tower, N123AB, 6 SW, 3000', landing w/B". Second note, wait! after you call, give the controller a chance, then wait some more, most of the time pilots recall way too quickly especially in a busy environment. Everything Explained is an excellent resource chapter 12 has solid information. Miguel, fantastic you care, shows you are one of the professional pilots out there, good on you.
Best tool I learned is 3w’s. Start with who you are , where you are, what you want to do. Works pretty much everywhere
I’ve Heard Air Transit Pilots ( French Canadian) arguing with Air Traffic Controllers . How Unprofessional. Great Way To Have An Accident . I Find ATC Speak unclearly And way to Fast .
You mean, Air Transat.
They are just pissed off that they have to use English!
Great points. International ATC English requires simple clear and concise transmissions and a tuned ear.
So, are you suggesting I need to stop to saying, " breaker, breaker, one-nine.
What's your twenty, good buddy? Come back." on the radio? :0(
just don't squack 7500
I always squawk 7700. That way I always get what I want......
@@jerryschoofs895 if you squawk 6969 does that mean your getting laid in the cockpit
@@apache1234657 😂😂🍆
Y
Do you know what "good buddy" means?
Yes, we make mistakes on the radio primarily in the interpretation side of. However never stay with something you did not fully understand, if it is confusing...Ask to to clarify... always, do not be timid to ask for clarifications. Asking to repeat saves from accidents. Do not be bashful. It is the controller job to make sure you understand.
If you ever have fun on the radio, ask an controller from say Indonesia, Vietnam or Nepal with a very heavy accent, ask them to explain in simple English what does he meant by his direction because you cannot understand . then seat back and get entertain by someone that should not be a controller.
When one of my instructors was telling me that way too many pilots mess up the phonetic alphabet- even for commercial medium-long haul flights- I barely believed him, and he told me about interesting ones which he had heard. A couple of weeks later, I was having a lesson with a different instructor and then over the radio I hear someone repeatedly saying their registration with Neptune and it made me want to scream because the ATC controller was continually responding with November to them!
Partly could be because the alphabets have changed over the years, some are still a little bit different from each other, and people remember their first ones. 'Bravo" was 'Baker'. Some public safety agencies still use, or recently used, different alphabets, too. I haven't heard "neptune", but I've heard Mary, Adam, and Ocean.
As a controller you are 100% correct. If your phraseology is bad and you sound unsure or confused you are not in the circle of trust. Pilots and controllers are a team, and it is usually obvious who the professionals are regardless of what type aircraft they are flying. In this country at Busy airports or approach controls the controllers talk almost exclusively to professional pilots causing them to use a somewhat abbreviated phraseology that isn't technically correct, but the pilot know what to listen for. Controllers can develop bad habits as well. I suggest listening to mid level facilities that have a mix of airlines, training aircraft, and military.
I think "Monitor ground point niner" isn't ICAO Phraseology either, or is it?
IDK about ICAO, but it is definitely a thing in the US. It's authorized per the JO7110.65.
Definitely not ICAO. „Monitor ground: one two one decimal niner“ (or „one two one decimal niner one zero“) Frequency allways 4 or 6 digits (8,33 kHz channel separation) and not „point“, but „decimal“.
Not really sure honestly. I know a few things changed from the time I started to now with the ICAO crap. Taxi into position and hold changed to line up and wait.
Hey Kelsey, great channel man, keep it up, i havent spoken on an aircraft radio before, but i have spent time at a private airfield, now, i didnt know who was listening on the radios we used for ground work, i didnt know if the conversations were recorded, and that made me nervous, which actually went in my favour, because i was nervous, i was blunt and to the point, mostly reading back word for word what i was hearing when i was called over the radio, so, no small talk, no abbreviations, no radio slang, and i was told i was very professional over the radio, so, after i overcame my nerves, and it was second nature to key the mic and start talking, i kept up the short, blunt, repeating word for word method, which was great
It not only made me sound professional over the radio, it freed up the airwaves for other staff to send and receive their messages
It wasnt seen as such an important job to some people, i was simply driving supply vans/trucks round the field, i was like a gopher, filling up generators, swapping out airside equipment for repair to the workshop, towing step trailers around, placing and removing traffic cones, it was actually an aircraft breakers, basically planes would land on our runway for the last time
But i loved it, i got to do what hardly anyone else could do, one day on my dinner break, i sat in the captains seat of a 737 that had just landed for breaking, and before it got touched, i tuned the local airport approach frequency and sat listening, played with the seatbelt light button, made PA announcements to my colleagues who were eating their dinner in the cabin, my boss was sat in the FO seat showing me what to press and what not to touch
I played with the flight controls, deployed the speed brakes and flaps, did allsorts of things
They sat me in there because i liked it so much, and when they jacked the plane up, they let me retract and extend the landing gear
It was awesome, i can understand why thats the best office in the world
They left the cockpit until last, and cut it from the rest of the plane intact, and my boss offered to sell it me to build a simulator with, man i had the money he was asking for it, but no truck to transport it to mine
How do you remember what ATC says? My brain is very fish like. 2 seconds and its... Mmmmm, what did he say. :)
write it down-be prepared for instructions
@@pilotactor777 I'm a Doctor. Can't read my own writing.. :)
Most of what you hear is what you already know he is going to say. You catch the differences and write it down.
My trouble is more with how fast they say it.
@@srcastic8764 Watch the movie "Sully".
What an excellent way to discuss radio communication. When I was in the Army it made me so damn angry when people couldn’t get the basics correct.
After that sully video you really got famous. And started getting tons of views. That's really awesome
well the flight movie seems to have gotten things started... glad the channel is growing and people are sharing.
Sully was lucky. He had no options. When you only for one it's easy to decide.
I have no aspirations of being an airline pilot so I like the fact that you give plenty of general aviation examples for your topics. Today should have been a no fly day at my school due to IMC but my CFI took me up anyway and I got a chance to really experience IFR flying without the use of foggles. Almost as soon as we left the runway I was in the clouds. It was lots of fun. If I ever really get caught in IMC I will have a better understanding of how disorienting it is.
For the life of me, I don't know why a lot of pilots start their transmissions with "and."
Thank you!
Gotta be thankful for those mentors throughout your career. Thanks Kelsea!
Sorry, I couldn't help it. I almost fell of my chair laughing when at 7:15 you said "in proper" when talking about using confusing language. When someone says "in proper" to fast it can sound like "Improper", And I even had to rewind to hear you say it again. Though it might just be me as I am a bit inebriated.
"Though it might just be me as I am a bit inebriated."
Fortunately, the co-pilot is flying and he hasn't touched a drop all day.
Before my academy closed for the lockdown in March here in Greece, I had a couple dozen hours of flying under my belt and couldn't talk properly on the radio if my life depended on it, at a point where I would just freeze cause I couldn't remember what to say. During the 2 month lockdown I would spend hours on flight sim X ,doing the same VFR routes and just giving reports with correct ICAO phraseology like I would durring a real flight, every day again and again. Thus, when I started flying again in May I totaly nailed the comms, had a great feeling of accomplishment and from there on, I just keep enhansing it. Practice makes perfect in aviation.
Hi, I'd like to contribute with comments on some phraseologies that in my opinion may contribute to a dangerous situation or even induce a runway incursion. Well, I want to emphasize that nobody should refer to the holding point as "holding position" as a noun, and as for a verb, pilots and ATC should say "maintain position", instead of "hold or holding position", because there was an old phraseology that is no longer in use, but it's present in the memory of older pilots: " cleared into position". I don't know HOW OFTEN that happens to pilots, but some develop a certain degree of " hurry to take-of mindset " and throughout my decades as an air traffic controller, I noticed that it would be a good practice to include this brief message when I was working using the Ground frequency: " upon reaching ( or when you reach ) holding POINT, maintain pasition and call tower frequency..." when pilots reported "ready to copy take-off data." I know that may sound silly, but more than once, american pilots would begin to move towards an active runway even though they were on the ground frequency, if I had used the expression "cleared taxi to holding position".
There's a lot I want to ask you about ATC, that I trust NO PILOT to answer. I don't know where to start. You seem to be able to talk an aircraft practically right into the vector and glideslope with just altitude transition commands, turns, just from instructions. No GPS, no approach plate or whatever "procedure" , NDB, or anything else. You manage to talk the aircraft (i.e. , me, if I actually flew before) down practically right on localizer and glideslope, without having to look at ILS whatsoever. I know that it is impossible to dedicate your time and that kind of time just for the arrival of one airplane, but how do you do this?! It is very impressive to say the least.
When I ask this question, it is in regards to ATC CENTER, of course, and whatever is or if it is handed off to tower, or whatever. So, in other words, you get a lot of "instructions" from pilots, or whatever, bragging about themselves and how "tricky" it is to do their NDB approach, I guess no VOR, and how much talent [they claim to have] in trying to figure out, or whatever, where to turn while tuned to ADF, and WHEN to turn, and the altitude transition. So, therefore, you get these CFI's, or whatever they are, bragging about their senses of navigation, with their approach plate/chart when the ENTIRE TIME, you guys at ATC can simply talk the aircraft in with just as much if not more degree of accuracy. Do you see what I mean?
And you, being with ATC, by all means CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING! I don't want to know what ANY pilot, BrAD pITT, CFI, etc.., who is, in reality, competing against me, has to say about anything whatsoever.
@@stratoleft Did you understand that my aim is to let people be aware of a possible source of misunderstanding that may induce a runway incursion?
@@stratoleft I see your point. If we observe through the bragging, however it may sound boring, it's sometimes possible to make useful inferences and learn from others.
I retired from a railroad, running locomotives for fun and profit. Radio work seemed to be the bane of some fellow employees existence. When taking orders from dispatchers, it is necessary to repeat the instructions verbatin (although some dispatchers and a bit less picky than others). One of my conductors could not repeat and it would take several tries to get it right until the big class one railroad we crossed and operated on instituted a 'three strike' policy - if you didn't read it back right in three tries, you're done. The dispatchers also talked too fast at times; there are some that were my favorites but many that we hated to deal with. The big difference between ATC and railroad dispatchers is that ATC is a matter of attitute. Railroads dispatchers ('spatch) often considered the route they covered as their sandbox and were happy denying access.
74 gear, you're THE NEXT captain joe!! Also what airline do you fly for??
ohhh I don't know if you can replace Capt Joe... but if you follow me on IG you will be able to figure it out but I don't talk about my airline because I don't make them on their behalf so I like to separate my airline and my youtube life!
@@74gear Will do, thanks!
Atlas Air, as a Cargo master. Not a pilot. Don't believe everything you see or hear. There's a lot of fakes out there claiming to be something they're not.
@@cheekykent awww😑
@Cheeky Kent any proof? You're right with "Don't believe everything you see or hear". I'm not trusting this comment
You are the man Kels. ! I’m a A&P at a flight school and a pilot. Love your channel.
I LOVE THE NEW LOGO AND INTRO!!
Thanks Immanuel! trying to step it up
Great video and great points but I thought for certain that you would mention the most common mistake that one hears over the continental US from pilots. ATC will clear a flight to flight level three five zero and the pilot will read back flight level three five oh instead of the correct altitude, three five zero. It seems that a lot of pilots are confused between letters and numbers.
The slang is an easy thing to get caught up in especially as a student pilot. It sounds "cool'. Took me while to stop saying "in the box". My instructor taught me to just read back the numbers, no departure, no squawk, just the numbers. ATC knows what they said and you just verify the numbers.
well I would separate squat after departure so there is no confusion especially when you are talking to people who are speaking English as a foreign language.
I learned to fly in Florida. In 1993 I made a trip to DCA and on a VFR departure, ATC asked me a question I'd never heard before, and I was flummoxed. He said "What is your on-course heading?" Of course I realize now what this meant: what's the compass direction in which I want to fly on my way out of his airspace. At the time my head swirled with interpretations: What heading had I just been told to fly? What's my actual heading? What's my ground-track? What heading do I want? I apologized that I did not understand the question. He was annoyed but we got through.
My question is: did the controller improperly use IFR terminology on a VFR pilot? Should I have known what that meant, "on-course heading"? Besides language barriers, are their regional and certification differences that balkanize and babelize phraseology?
So I have a story from when I was working as a pilot so I was speaking German over the radio because I’m German and I was flying a German plane in German airspace
so I started talking and they said sir you have to speak English and I said I’m in German plane in German skies why can’t I speak German and a man with a heavy British accent came on and said because you lost
Oof.
Lol!!!! Good !!!
I'll take "things that never happened" for $500, please
I've heard this story before a lot on forums
Lol 😂
If you want to improve on your communication, or even get used to it before learning to fly, consider flying a simulator in the Pilotedge area (roughly (south) western USA). They provide a professional level virtual ATC service. It will cut back the cost for your IFS training considerably.
In ICAO phraseology there is even no"point"but "decimal"instead hahah
Another thing to do is verify your clearances. Once, when I was flying solo, upon returning from a cross country exercise, I entered the traffic pattern at my local airport, I wanted to do a touch and go, stay in the pattern, then land. Upon making contact with the tower, I requested a touch and go, when I turned from base to final, the tower gave me clearance to land. I touched down, put the flaps up, advanced the throttle, and took off again. I then got a call from the tower to check my clearances. A rookie mistake that when the tower gave me clearance to land, I needed to again request a touch and go. lesson learned heh.
I might say, “N757CV, is 1900 climbing 3000”. Removes the “to” or “for”.
For me, hearing "out of" is a good indication that it's for the actual altitude or FL
also "passing 1900..." or if it's a maintained altitude :"leaving 2000 climbing 3000"
I noticed your communication skills in your prior video when you flew a private plane with a flight assistant. Great instructional video. I remember my flight school, the communication wasn't a big part of the lessons, if at all. We had to listen to the instructor and learn from that.
Did you ever fly into JFK and talk to Kennedy Steve? The man is a RUclips Star.
That man is an idiot. Highly unprofessional and such an arrogant prick especially when talking to non-native English speaking pilots. The best in the world has to be London CTA. They make it sound so easy and approachable and a breath of fresh air when I use them.
@@peanuts2105 - What an odd coincidence! Everybody was just saying, "Sky Pilot is an idiot. A typical arrogant BRITISH PRICK!"
Kennedy Steve has already retired.
@@kallewirsch2263 True but Kelsey still could have flown to JFK at some point when he was there.
@@peanuts2105 I disagree. Kennedy Steve is very loving, flexible, and calming for me to listen to. When you're controlling 120+ flights an hour with planes delayed for up to 90 minutes at an airport like JFK, Steve is probably the best possible example of how a controller can say exactly what they need to in order to get the job done professionally while relieving tensions of having tens of thousands of passengers waiting on the tarmac. Where you see "arrogant prick" I see "everyday New Yorker". In all the tapes I've listened to Steve has approved more bizarre pilot requests by far than he has declined.
When I was young and was taking flying lessons at Morristown NJ I was very self conscious about talking on the radio. I remember i had just landed and was taxiing back to the flight school to park the plane and ground control was asking another pilot what taxi way he was at, and when he answered, he sounded like a deer in the headlights, and said, im at taxi way lobster. You could hear all the guys in the tower laughing in the background as the ground control guy responded back, everyone in my plane was laughing, and i swear you could hear the entire airport laughing collectively. Which just made me more nervous about talking on the radio.