Overview of Soviet Military Handguns: Nagant, Tokarev, Makarov
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2023
- All the best firearms history channels streaming to all major devices:
weaponsandwar.tv
Today we are looking at an overview of Soviet military service sidearms. This begins with the Model 1895 Nagant revolver, inherited from the Czarist Russian Army. The Nagant was adopted as the standard Red Army handgun, specifically in double action. Soviet refitting led to single-action Nagant revolvers being extremely rare today. In the late 1920s, a development program for a new semiautomatic pistol was run, which resulted in adoption of the TT30 Tokarev. Refinement of the Tokarev led to the TT33, adopted in 1933 and entering significant production in late 1935.
The Tokarev was considered a flawed pistol, and a new program in the late 1930s looked to replace it. A new design was chosen, but the German invasion in 1941 ended that project, and the Tokarev and Nagant would serve together through the end of World War Two. In the aftermath of the war, the Soviet Union adopted a wholly new suite of small arms. The new pistol was to be something lighter and handier, and with better safety features than the Tokarev. The PM Makarov was adopted to this end, and entered production in the early 1950s. It was used through the collapse of the Soviet Union, with a PMM (modernized) version unveiled in 1990, with a larger magazine. Eventually, the Russian Federation adopted the MP-443 Grach in 2003, a locker-breech 9x19mm pistol to replace the Makarovs.
All the best firearms history channels streaming to all major devices:
weaponsandwar.tv
utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
I have a double-action Nagant, and the 40,000-ton DA trigger pull makes Tsarist officers' concern that their men couldn't be trusted with the double-action version even more hilarious than it already would have been. It's hard work to make one of those things go off on _purpose,_ let alone by accident. :)
"oncern that their men couldn't be trusted with the double-action version even more hilarious" Nope. It's not funny. At all. The Russian aristocracy, which obviously made decisions because Russia was an absolute monarchy with the broadest rights of the aristocracy, treated the commoners in much the same way as the white majority of US treated the black population at that time. Only there was no racial undertone, only a social one. "It is forbidden to enter with dogs and for lower ranks" - well known signs on a shops in St. Petersburg. Another reason why the Bolsheviks won.
@@Ailasher There is such a thing as _gallows_ humor, after all. A thing doesn't have to be pleasant to be funny.
@@ZGryphon Point taken.
The only reason firearms like the Nagant revolver, Tokerav and even the Mosin Nagant soldiered on so long is because of the backwards nature of Communism.
Btw thats one of reasons why soviets gave everyone double-action I guess
Ideologically, that makes sense
Interesting how the Soviets went from a short recoil autoloader to a simple blowback, when most other countries went the opposite direction.
I think the Soviets had the right idea, though. In the post-WW2 era where everyone has 30+ round magazines in self-loading rifles, you're not going to be using your pistol nearly as often as in WW2 and before. It goes from being an important stopgap when caught reloading or being overrun to being something you'll only use in a rare dire emergency where probably no pistol will save you or in extremely tight environments, and for that the Makarov is perfectly suited. It's powerful enough, it's lightweight and compact, it's simple, it's reliable, and it's accurate. And it's extremely safe. How often have our soldiers actually had to use their M9? In how many of those occurrencesz would a Makarov been perfectly adequate? Probably at least 95% of them.
@@WardenWolf Yeah, though even the Russians eventually adopted a double stack 9mm, so evidently the extra power and capacity eventually became relevant.
@@nono-jj9rr Really really early on in the development of autoloading hanguns, so 1890's or 1900's. And yeah, eventually everyone went to some form of a short recoil locked breech pistol.
@nono-jj9rr I'm pretty sure that Belgium adopted the FN 1900 in .38 ACP before WWI, it looks like the Tokerev, but it's a straight blowback.
@@WardenWolfWhen you mentioned the M9. I almost started laughing. In my 10 yrs, active duty, carried the same one for almost 9 of them. Every time I had an armorer tell me, 'Your safety/decocker is bad. It only decocks, doesn't go on safe. You can DA while it's indicating safe'. I'm going, Ok what's the problem? Just change the barrel, don't touch the internals. It works just fine when I need it. Never had a problem, with it in weapons qualifications. Let alone a shoot house.
I remember in the 90s, when the Nagant revolvers were imported to the US. They practically gave them away. But you couldn't find ammo anywhere.
When i bought mine there was a conversion cyclinder to 32acp
@@tedmichas7709 I never saw that.
They were about $60-$70 wholesale. You could get Fiocchi ammo back then for about $20-$30 box. By the late 90s, Russian military ammo had become available.
@@donwyoming1936 I don't think I paid $60 for the pistol.
I had one back then. Didn't know that you can use various .32 revolver rounds.
7:30 Naturally, however, you absolutely shouldn't run 7.62 Tokarev in a Mauser broomhandle, thanks to the higher pressure. I've heard stories about Finnish troops that have destroyed some broomhandles by doing that, since the cartridge dimensions are practically identical.
One would think that whichever cartridge came second would have been made in a way to readily distinguish it from the other if that's the case. But nope. Let fortune decide! said the engineer! Like the guys who designed the Pinto. "It won't happen _that_ often. We're good enough."
So if a Finnish troop blows up a Broomhandle doe he become a Finish troop? 😂
@@Bob-qk2zg I have some hazy memory that there's an even hotter load for SMGs, but no idea how true that is.
@@scottmccrea1873the Pinto reference is going to fly right past some folks, but those of us who understand are laughing our asses off 🤣
@@scottmccrea1873they never saw the Gremlins coming.
I have a Smith and Wesson No. 3 in .44 Russian. Odd part is, my great uncle got it from a Japanese officer at Iwo Jima. Our guess is, it was a pickup all the way back in the early 1900s by someone and it kicked around Japan for 40 years or so.
Actually not an unheard of story at all. The Imperial Japanese government used the No. 3 Russian as their standard issue sidearm for a number of years in the late 1800s. Many of them hung around for a long time.
Russian officer has no. 3 in 1905
Goes over to Port Arthur
Jap officer takes it as a trophy
Gives it to his son/grandson
They bring it to Ieo Jima
You end up with it
2025 Mars war
Martian space command officer kills you
Takes it
2,000 Light years from Terra, year 40,000
Horus kills an imperial guard officer
Picks up his No. 3
Thinks “Huh reloading this is gonna be a nightmare”
Very nice of that Japanese officer to give him the S&W. Hope they stayed in touch 😊
@@Montycat78 He felt that he had no further use for it. One of his friends also gave him a raw silk battle flag that I held onto as well. Quite a generous people. The flag even came with free DNA spots on it.
Thats a really neat way to tell a fascinating story 👍🏼
Mind, the problem with the TT not shooting well through tank pistol-ports had some legitimate grounding. The Red Army paid very close attention to the performance of their tanks in the Spanish Civil War and infantry swarming tanks was a huge problem. Several times, Republican tankers were compelled to shoot the enemy off their tanks with small arms. This being a time when most tanks were still using flags and hand-signals to communicate, asking friendly tanks or infantry to hose down the problem was much more complicated than it would be later.
Even at the start of WW2 the chronic lack of radio in Soviet tanks would still make it a legitimate issue.
why not put some underfolder PPS43s in the tank for that? seems like it would not take up too much space to keep 2 or 3 of them in the tank with a couple mags a piece.
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 what do you think the 43 stands for in that name?
That would be partly because we are discussing thinking in the time period of 1936-1941 when there aren't folding SMGs like PPs43 yet in the Red Army inventory.
That also doesn't solve the problem that even the best SMGs INSIDE the tank can't do much to hurt bad guys outside the tank without opening a hatch, which is when the bad guys put nasty things through said hatch.
The actual solution was always just improve the coordination of tanks with infantry so the tanks didn't have bad people crawling all over them in the first place, but you would be surprised how many militaries even in 1939 were convinced that tanks and infantry shouldn't stick very close together, even the nations that had "infantry support" as a primary mission for their tanks!
1936-1941 was a very wacky time to be a tanker.
@@TiocfaidhArLa34
Two points: PM stands for Пистолет Макарова, transliterated as "Pistolet Makarova", - Makarov's Pistol (note that there is no "n" there). Also, it seems that the APS (Stechkin's Automatic Pistol) somehow escaped this overview.
The APS wasn’t really a standard Soviet sidearm like these were. Maybe if he gets access to more specialized handguns like the PB and PSS he’ll do a part 2.
Yankee doodle went to town
On a little pony
He stuck a pistol on his belt
And called it "Makarovni"
APS was a really niche gun, that also no one actually liked for how huge and heavy it is for a pistol, and awkward to to shoot for a submachine gun.
Much more of a flop than TT-33.
Since I own these pistols (except for the last one) it was really interesting to review their history with Ian and morning coffee. Thanks Ian.
Ah yes, the Soviet standard sidearm trinity: Nagant, Tokarev, and Makarov.
😂
А стечкин?
😇 🙏
@@MrQwerman Тут скорее всего обсуждаются общевойсковые пистолеты, или даже пистолеты конкретно для пехоты, в то время как Стечкин создавался с изначальной целью вооружения только офицеров, сержантов, солдат некоторых конкретных специальностей и для экипажей боевых машин, которым не полагался карабин или ПП.
and the stechkin pistol
These collection videos are awesome man. Would be awesome to see more.
I feel heard . I definitely mentioned how they use the same barrel blanks for as many guns as possible. It was a big deal for logistics and weapons design. If your handgun, smg, carbine,rifle, and small caliber machine guns all use the same barrel blanks , it saves time and money as well as theoretically giving all of your personal small arms more durable barrels because the barrel material must be usable in machine guns .
Russian legend is that TT were made from failed, noncompliant rifle barrels, just cut them to smaller pieces and select reusable ones.
That pistol in the middle may have had a lot of problems, but it sure is pretty.
They copied the look from Browning 1903. But on the Tokarev the trigger group is removable with no tools
Dear Ian,
To me the most enjoyable parts of your videos are always the historical facts.
Your profund knowledge, your love for details, your passionate and very likeable presentations are fascinating-and, my goodness, it’s all ad-lib!
I lift my hat in greatest respect to you.
Keep up the good work, mate!
Thank you very much for this interesting history lesson and the context of each new model
Some more Tokarev history: In it's day the usual carry mode for almost all armies was chamber empty, so lacking a safety was considered almost a non-issue. That also allowed more economical manufacture which mattered a lot in those world depression days, as well as making the use simpler and with fewer things to go wrong or break. When the USSR broke up, Russia became infested with criminal gangs whose sources of arms was limited to mostly what corrupt military personnel could supply. They chose the Tokarev for slimness or the Makarov for compact size as their needs might dictate. Though not by intent, the Tokarev was found to readily penetrate the early soft ballistic vests. This was before or at the beginning of the 'level' ratings, and they made special "Tokarev rated" vests for that. Apparently the Asian criminal elements of the time also had quite a few Tokarevs in use as the Hong Kong police force was the first to commonly use those special vests. Body armor is better these days and almost all of it will handle the Tokarev now but for regular FMJ bullets, the Tokarev cartridge still has some of the deepest penetration found in a pistol.
almost right. In 1990s TT were not stealed from army (where they were not used for more than 30 years) but from abundant storages, where they laid still since rearming to PM and no one cared about 1000s of oily 50 yo crates to check. Plus many of them were available as dig-outs, by illegal excavations of WWII battlefields.
Usual great production - packed with interest. Thank you.
6:57 - The C96 Mauser is like, the iconic Russian Civil War pistol you'd see in movies.
Exactly. And it was immortalized in Vladimir Mayakovsky's "The Left March": "Ваше слово, товарищ Маузер".
Hence "Bolo" for the short-barreled C96 model favored by the Bolsheviks... Also why the 7.62 Tok was adopted, since it's basically just a higher-pressure variant of the 7.62 Mauser they already knew & loved!
@danijelovskikanal7017to be fair, it only could appear in the final years of the 'Wild' West. It was imported in the US in 1901 as far as I am aware. I've seen information that Texas rangers bought some in 1902 but couldn't find the primary source (it was supposed to be photo of cpt. Brooks of Brownsville, TX). However, the gun appeared in some westerns. I can definitely remember it in Corbucci's 'Il Grande Silenzio'
This channel and Ian are always a great source of information.
Ian, please do a video on Russian pistols after Makarov. You already did PSM, but I'm sure there's more to say if it's put in context.
I love Ian and forgotten weapons, but $50 for a mug is too much.
Combloc pistols are my thing. I appreciate your work, Ian. Merry Christmas!
Great video, thank you & have a great holiday!
I think that even if it wasn't Soviet era, the SR1MP pistol program is really cool. And should be covered here.
Yea
I read it as "shrimp"
@@yochaiwyss3843glad i wasn't the only one
"i carried the shrimp when i was in the red army"
@@yochaiwyss3843 xD its a good name
Thanks for the video
I like this new format of retrospective in small arm of a certain category or country.
Thus video look very like the interview you made with the Russian expert in handgun ammo, but, more condensed, more clear, we can read the complete script, it's nice.
(although, maybe put this old video in description?)
(as a not native English speaker, but with a good enough level, this is easier to get the info and setting in mind than an a hour long webcall/interview (both are valuable and the longer video with this sir have its pros))
Tokarev Rocks!! Especially the m57TT improvement of it. You did a review on it but not a shooting video. Maybe you should.
I hope Ian will do something similar with all the Walther PP/Makarov clones of the Warsaw Pact. I can't find any comprehensive video or series of videos comprising of them all. I find those little double action compact .32/.380/9mmMak clones quite fascinating!
Seriously cool video!!!! Thank you.
A video about the origins of the gas-seal system including the Pieper and García Reynoso revolver would be awesome.
I have a post war 1947 Soviet TT33 and I love it, mine is a non import pistol. The person I inherited it from brought it home in a duffel. Years ago there was a guy in Canada that made muzzle brakes for them, I have one on mine and I use it in out IDPA shoots sometimes just to keep in practice with it.
Fascinating. Thanks.
Great video as usual on historic military firearms. Have you ever thought about making a video of your own personal historic firearms that you're collecting? I'd love a video on what you decided to put your hard earned money on.
Ian did forget the Podbyrin 9.2mm, the most powerful handgun ever made.
lmao
500 S&W Magnum is the most powerful in the world.
The guy whonwrote that line must know about firearms.
@@actionjksn Incorrect comrade, please check the most excellent documentary "Red Heat" about an average Soviet Militsiya officer using the Podbryn 9.2mm doing routine police work in USSR and you will discover performance far exceeds that of capitalist inferior revolver technology comrade.
Love those old Soviet guns! Great video Ian!
I happened to stumble onto an 1895 Nagant that is indeed still single action only. Unfortunately, it is a mix-master of parts so really doesn't have much value. It has a sideplate the the Peter the Great mark (dated 1913), but doesn't have the serial number where it should be on the frame. There are also a few small parts in it marked with the Tula star, which I believe dates them to the later 1920s.
I wish I got a Nagant pistol back when they were $99 😢
Thank you so much for this video, im in the process of deciding which pistol to get as my first handgun and the choice was badically between the three! Helped me a bunch
Interesting video
I had a Makarov for a short while
It shot 100% reliable and even shot decent groups
But it had a 20+ trigger pull
There was also a issue with the chamber that might have been by design or a flaw
As the chamber had a slight flare right at the end of the case mouth
I didn't have a gauge to measure it
But it was maybe a .001 or .0015 flare all the way around the chamber
With Steel cased ammo I never had problems
But with brass cased ammo it still worked , but the slide seemed to be slower cycling
getting my mp446 and tt-30 out, ive been waiting for this vid XD
7:00 Please don't think you can do the reverse and use a Russian 7.62 Tokarev round in a C 96 Mauser though. I had a friend who lost an eye firing 7.62 out of a C 96 Mauser and having the action blow back in his face.
No offense ian, but whoever decided that a cleaning mat for 49.99$ with a meme on it as the only way to enter was a terrible decision. At 30$ id think about it, but not 50$ + S&H.
9:08 does anyone have a name or any details about this ultimately unsuccessful replacement pistol? I'd love to read more about it.
Yeah I'm also super curious about this! I've never heard that they wanted to replace the tt-33 before ww2.
Leaving a comment to get notified when someone comes up with the answer.
am really curious aswell, does anyone know?
Voevodin
A really kinda nice gun, even got made a bit (from 500 to 1500 pistols were already made by the time of German invasion), yet sadly the invasion started and the factories weren't re-tooled for the production of Voevodin pistol.
That whoooop was lit
so, how many firearms have you had on this brilliant and informative show. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
According to a german arms magazine, a large number of remaining S&W revolvers had been converted to flareguns for reason of the breakdown mechanism. Is this true?
Some guys on RUclips took a Nagant pistol and cut the front sight off it and threaded the barrel and put a can on it. That thing was almost Hollywood movie quiet. That is the big advantage of the cylinder sealing feature.
You cannot normally put a can on a revolver because of the cylinder gap. Being a revolver there is also no metal clanking and making noise.
This would kind of be the ultimate assassins tool, because it's also not going to leave any spent shell casings. The sealed up cylinder is also probably helpful because of it being an underpowered cartridge and it can use all the help it can get.
"cut the front sight off" THEY WHAT?!
I own all but the last pistol and still learned a lot!
If I remember correctly the PMM pistols weren't widely adopted in the newly formed Russian Armed Forces due to some reliability issues and most Russian soldiers fielded the standard Makarov PM until the implementation of the MP-443 Grach. However even with the MP-443 Grach being entered into service, the Makarov remained popular for several more years until its recent replacement being the Udav Pistol which was supposed to enter service around 2022-2023, however I am not sure if the Ukraine-Russian conflict has complicated the implementation of the Udav pistol in Russian service.
man the makarov is such a stylish looking gun, i wish there was one in a regular commonplace cartridge
The Nagant gas seal does an excellent job of keeping fouling out of the action. Would have been great with black powder; the cylinder wouldn't bind with fouling.
In this new format, I would love so much to have on the same table a lot of French weird guns (and we're proud of them 😂) with Chauchat, RSC, the weird SMGs, the AA-52 and so on.
Now your French is fine (and French are better in English), I hope you'll be able, like, to present, like this video, but in the Museum des Invalides (main French army museum)!
Also, collection of "Kraut Space Magic, 1898 to 2018" with kirkie German(ic) guns (German+Austrian+germanic Swiss like SIG)
Or a collection on Belgian firearm from their "golden age".
Love this video. Im only missing a Nagant revolver to complete my Soviet pistol collection.
A Romanian tokarev Tt-c was my first gun I bought and carried lol. Jacketed hollow Points of course.
"When we want to shoot our own guys, we'll do it on purpose, not by accident!" - some Soviet Officer, probably.
The double action of the nagant revolver is stupid heavy I don't know how you would accidentally be able to pull it 😂
I missed the content… Ian is the man…
What pistol was chosen to replace the TT pre-WW2 before being scrapped?
The Voevodin.
Great stuff love it! Cool video thank you Ian!
PM was also a police standard pistol, i think that is one of the reason was to have less powerful pistol then TT.
Don't think so, as it was made for the competition of handguns for the high command of the USSR army.
It could expended back into Russian Empire with S&W model 3 and Galland. In sovjet segment there are also Stechkin, PSM, PB. In sport segment there is also Korowin and e.g. toz-35.
Stechkin APS/APB?
@@Naamah-Az Automatitscheskiy Pistolet Stechkina (APS aka Stechkin's Automatic Pistol). (Automatitscheskiy) Pistolet Besshumniy (A)PB (aka [autmatic] silanced pistol).
interesting to note would have been the differences in nagant production from factory to factory and within time periods. i.e., earlier nagants had rounded front sites, and izhevsk factory had different wood (or finish at least, idk nothin about woodworking) for the grips (a lot lighter than the tula factory grips.) maybe by the time izhevsk was ramping production, like the mosins built there, that's all they could use; idk. mines 1938 with a refurbed chamber, pointed front sight and darker grips.
i know you mentioned there were some upgrades, but the front sightpost is a pretty massive upgrade imo. and it's nice that you mention russians believed it to be accurate, it has a horrible reputation in the USA because the refurbed chambers create problems, most common being it almost always requires retiming for swift double action use. but accuracy supposedly was limited by these chambers. true non-refurbed nagants are insanely rare and genuine ones tend to be very sought after.
but, my nagant (in full power, like nuclear loads 3x SAAMI specs (which is extremely underpowered, hence the EXTREMELY underpowered loads from europe) is the only sidearm ive shot to 100y extremely consistently. it's my fav gun and i genuinely carry it all the time (single action tho, since my cylinder has timing issues...) even though the sites require you to aim like 4" low even at like 10y LMAO. at 100y i think i was aiming 1.5 (if not 2) feet low with really hot loads; it eventually became my natural instinct to aim very low (esp since my tokarev similarly shoots a little high) and is a bad habit now that i mainly carry a glock 29 that's zeroed to 20y poa/poi.
one problem w the nagant's casings is they are too thin, if you have a strong load (even just a bit stronger than surplus loads with fiocchi casings...) you'll stick the chamber forward sometimes which can require the use of a hammer or something to unstick it. but, you can comfortably get like 300-350ftlb w.o this with new casings; even 30-40% stronger than surplus! (i wish we could reform the surplus steel cases) also, my #1 issue w the gun is obv the extractor. no spring sucks, it can be a real pain to get cases out of the cylinder, i can still reload it in like 14seconds w a speedstrip but man it can be DIFFICULT to extract cases if you're shooting strong loads, slow burning powders like h110 (for the fireball, of course) make it doubly difficult in my experience...
ANOTHER interesting thing to mention would have been, even if it doesn't matter for history, the fact some ppl redrilled the cylinders for 7.62x25. the nagant was so overbuilt, mine has taken so much abuse in terms of nuclear 7.62x39r loads. i love it to death, it's my favorite gun i own and the #1 gun i wouldn't sell.
رااائع
@@user-om3pi9rf3y what lol
The nagant revolver has the absolute heaviest, worst trigger I've ever pulled. I've joked that the scene in enemy at the gates where the Russian officer is shooting soldiers jumping from the boat during the river crossing with a nagant is the least accurate part of the movie since the officer is easily pulling the trigger with any sort of accuracy.
Totally agree. But with practice you can get decent accuracy, especially with the 7.62 Nagant cartridge. I have a video on my channel of me shooting one six times from 40 yards landing like 3 or 4 shots on a standard sticky cartridge.
Awesome
Do you have any information on the pistol design that was being considered to replace the TT in 1941?
The indent on the wall next to Ian's left ear made me wipe my screen
Using Ф as a replacement of O is so painful to see on this preview
Usiиg sфviэt phфпt just fфя sakэ фf a sфviэt-thэmэd pяэviэш
Nagant revolver lends itself to being suppressed. Which makes its history more interesting
Is there any history of them being suppressed on a scale that matters? I believe that’s only a modern western thing that’s sometimes done.
@@gunsforevery1 I believe it was used suppressed by the NKVD. I'm sure it wasn't at any scale that would matter, but it's still pretty cool as a piece of history
@@gunsforevery1a couple thousand were made before and during WW2. Developed since 1929. Special subsonic cartridge too. They basically made it all work and it saw limited use in spec ops and with partisans, but was largely forgotten after WW2.
@@gunsforevery1the name of the suppressor and cartridge system is БраМит - Братья Митины (Mityn brothers - named after the engineers who designed it, like all soviet small arms of the period).
@@Tu11iy 7.62x38 is already subsonic. Its super underpowered.
07:50 you are good in that! Tokarev does have problems - how do you know that? Man you are good in that, keep it.
Obligatory reference to exceptional caliber of Soviet Yunyun.
The Soviet system of adoption makes a lot of sense for the time as does the American one. America was already heavily industrialized so they had plants ready to receive a design and spit it out. The Soviets were still industrializing and building up factories so they basically planned a factory to make a gun and when the factory was done, the adopted gun was ready for mass production.
Cool exploration of about a century of Russian standard-issue sidearms. 🙂
I even had a ND with a TT. Luckily no harm or damage was done because your firearm should always be pointed in a safe direction.
I could be wrong but that Nagant is the only revolver which was silenced, and it makes sense.
Maybe the famous Soviet “pistol wavers” of World War II were merely holding their Tokarev pistols aloft for security reasons. 😊
The Tokerav is my favorite pistol
Gotta love how he deliberately said 'accidently shot' when talking about the Tokarev.
It would be cool to see a video about the MP-443 Grach.
Ian please do a video on the rsh-12 revolver
The tank friendly pistol was the Fedorov 1938. By looking at the picture it looks like the same concept as with the Walther P38 : the spring is held in the grip and the rear protrusion is longer. I don't think it's tilting barrel, it's likely a linear recoil like the Walther (could be a rotating barrel).
Until I read or find evidence otherwise, I still think the main reason for the Nagant's moving cylinder is to make it resistant to minor timing issues. Pushing the rim of the cartridge directly into the forcing cone will align everything about as perfectly as it could ever be expected to be, and if it doesn't line up well enough it simply won't function instead of shaving, spitting, or damaging the cone or frame.
yeah and way later on they found that suppressors work great on them lol.
Great Video as always! As a German and European i always wondered why Soviet Weapons are not as common in the USA as they are all over Europe.
I assume because we of course were right at the Border with the Soviet Union and of course after that all the former Soviet occupied Countries joined Europe and of course let's not forget the Yugoslav/Balkan and Kosovo War.
Has there also been some sort of Import Ban in the USA from Countries that were under the Soviet Umbrella? It's crazy how common some Guns are here (including Soviet Versions) compared to the USA.
Would appreciate if someone can chime in because if i google about why they are common here but more rare in the USA, thanks to the current Geopolitical Situation and Google Algorithm i only get Results about which European Countries send which Weapons to Ukraine.
What Soviet weapons specifically do you mean, and what time period are we talking about?
Post USSR collapse all the way until about 2014, Soviet surplus weapons were quite common. The "first gun" for many poors was a refurbed Mosin-Nagant 91/30 which could be had for as little as $69.95 with sling, bayonet, and accessory kit. Mosin rifles from Hungary, Romania, Poland, etc. were also quite plentiful. What changed all this price wise was dwindling stockpiles left to sent here plus the Ukraine War causing bans on imports of Russian stuff.
Anecdotally, it's not Soviet surplus that's scarce here, it's Russian surplus.
@@davidhansen5067
So Soviet Russian Surplus is common in the US but not post-Soviet Russian Surplus?
@@robertmao9390
Thanks for sharing that. So basically Soviet Era Firearms that are Soviet Versions are rare but all the other Versions from the Countries under their Umbrella is rather common?
Here i feel both are common, Soviet Russian a bit less but still cheaper than in the USA apparently, which is why i wondered
@@chartreux1532 No, I should have been more clear. Soviet Russian surplus, at least from the post-WW2 period, is anecdotally scarce. Surplus from other Soviet Bloc countries, and time periods, seems to be far less scarce.
Anyone know what gun Ian was referring to when he was talking about the tokarev's replacement just before operation barbarossa?
Voevodin pistol
sick
Nice.
Great video and thank you for not normalizing flagging like Scott did in his latest video.
Now I'm curious what they were planning to replace the TT with
1939's Voevodin pistol
Thanks, never heard of it!@@doc43souls74
The Stechkin APS is missing there
I remember in the late 90s you could get nagant revolvers in San Diego at the Del Mar gun show, cash and carry, for $95-$120. I miss those days. But at least I don’t live in California anymore, so some things have gotten better, anyway.
Woof. Del Mar was really that big a rip-off? Late '90s I could get better prices than that from my local gun shop; that's why I don't own a Nagant: for that nonsensical 1-rd at a time eject & reload at that time I could buy a Ruger Single-Six for maybe 3x the price and in the long run be way ahead in saved $ on the price of ammo... 😄
Russian firearms are often laughed at however in my eyes they are actually pretty good and inovative. That Nagant revolver was very innovative even to this day there is no revolvers that seals the gases like that. Also the Tokarev was ahead of its time especially with the modular components that we are only seeing in militarys now. THe Makarov was also ahead of its time being one of the first concealable semi autos like the Walthers.
Sad Stechkin is so rarely mentioned, its the most interesting of them all!
tho, it was made for PDW role rather than carry pistol
Just in time for my Metro 2033 replay. Thanks, comrade!
My understanding was that the gas seal on the nagant was valued specifically for firing from a port in an armored vehicle because it didn’t leak combustion gases inside the vehicle. I doubt if that was the reason it was developed (I don’t know if that problem even existed in 1895) but I remember that it was liked for that reason. It could also be suppressed, and I understand there were some suppressor for it, but I don’t think that was common at all. They are very accurate, at least mine was. The double action approaches useless and I always assumed that was because the cartridge mouth has to be belled open between the chamber and the forcing cone and that is easier to accomplish with your thumb on the hammer than with your trigger finger.
The device was the брамит i think, the silencer could also be used with mosins as long as low pressure subsonic ammo was used
ian, could you post about the trials that were done to replace the tokarev before operation barbarossa?
11:37 switching to your pistol is faster than reloading
Hey Ian, I am pretty sure I have a SA 1895. You said they were really rare (which I have also found on my own too). Would there be any way I could send it to you for you to check out and confirm/deny? Make videos of it if you choose, etc…
After watching this it makes me wonder if they took the Stretchkin APS and got rid of the full auto feature, the Soviets would have a pretty damn good replacement to the Makarov
Thing is, Makarov wasn't a military only pistol. It was (and is) the main police sidearm, and it is way better than the aps for the police use, considering its safety, compact size, and the fact that there's no way the usual police officer can get into a serious firefight in the Russia/ussr
Funny that ian said "let's get something we're noy going to shoot our own guys with" and processed to go toward the Markov
PM is not quite "Pistol Makarovna", but I appreciate the effort
funny thing: yesterday i was at the local police office (Romania) and one of the officers there had a Makarov at his belt
There are a lot of ppk clones in .32 acp here as well.
I've seen a ton of them in Bulgarian Police. I guess it just works well enough. Police in Europe rarely ever use their guns
“Makarova” - invented by Makarov. “Makarovna” - daughter of Makar. 😂
I used to live at an apartment where my neighbor had some sort of Makarov. We went shooting one time and the first shot I took through that thing drove the rear of the slide into my hand hard enough to give me two big blood blisters. I guess I was holding it too high? Never had that happen with anything else, even Glocks, which people seem to get slide bite from pretty regularly.