The 18 team format was an absolute clusterfuck. The scheduling was a mess, the travel was a mess and it just over complicated the competition to the point where the average joe needed a phd to work out the table. Worse still was the sunwolves were seen as mostly a cynical pre World Cup cash grab.
The Sunwolves never had a fair chance - they did well on the very few home games they were allowed to play, including watching them THRASH my Blues in Tokyo. But SA forced them to play half their home games in Singapore, which made an already uphill challenge for a new team harder (I imagine the Jaguares would have had similar challenges if they had to play half their home games in Miami or Hawaii). Japanese crowds wanted more Super Rugby, but Super Rugby kinda screwed Japan which made the JRFU rightly switch focus to setting up their own JRLO competition, which has taken a bunch of talent out of Super Rugby and put them in a pretty entertaining all stars competition in Japan - and really killed the chances of Super Rugby being taken seriously up here again.
@@_peepyopee I like that idea and I think the top JRLO teams could compete with Super Rugby teams, but MLR isn’t there yet. Perhaps an MLR selection team..?
@hikosaemon I think MLR and Super Rugby Americas could do a similar thing Make super rugby the Champions League of North and South America Winners/finalists of the Super Rugby Pacifc, Americas, and Euro Champions Cup should battle it out to find out who the best franchise in the world is
South Africa was carrying Super Rugby commercially. Massive TV viewership, biggest crowds, big corporate sponsors (prime example was seeing Investec Bank branding all around NZ grounds - they don't even operate in NZ but advertised there for SA viewership). All of the above is now contributing to making the URC a massive commercial success which is going from strength to strength and smashing viewership records every year. Super Rugby lost it's golden goose and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
@@illegalkiwi2193 I am not one, but I have been to plenty of rugby matches in South Africa, and the crowds there dwarf those in the rest of Super Rugby.
@@wlk2408 He was right for a certain time period. NZRU began seeing the cracks in South Africas political instability, failing economy, and rise in crime. Players well being were put at risk travelling there. It was a no brainer to separate from South Africa until they sort their country out. Which is going to take decades, if at all.
The Melbourne Rebels were always on a hiding to nothing. In the Rugby codes, League had got a big head start with the Melbourne Storm there since 1998 and had continued success from there until today. Of course, it goes without saying the elephant in the room, Australian Rules Football. The AFL is religion in Melbourne and everyone else is fighting over the bread crumbs left over. The Rebels may have had a better chance if they were based in Adelaide, than Melbourne.
The Rebels were a good microcosm of the problems with the Super Rugby approach generally. The Rebels should always have been a joint venture amongst the three Unions. It makes no sense in a city with tens of thousands of Kiwis and South Africans (more so Kiwis, South Africans more so in Perth and were perfect for the Force) to ignore this dynamic. At the outset, a few top All Blacks and Springboks should have been moved there along with some Wallabies. The issue is vanity. Australian Rugby thought they needed another team to develop players to compete internationally rather than play the slow game. Inevitably a commercially successful Melbourne team would start producing players. At the outset, someone like a Dan Carter should have been moved to Melbourne. This goes to the short sightedness of the NZR. They were happy for him to be at home in Christchurch in his bubble as it clearly worked well for the All Blacks. But the thinking needed to be broader. The NZR simply had to have a stake in the success of the team located in the second biggest city in the region. For too long the thought process was on Internationals rather than minding the back yard of Super Rugby. What we got instead was the Rebels raiding other SR Australia franchises for players and big names (Beale, O’Connor). This weakened the other SR franchises in Australia. I remember the same year that O’Connor went to the Rebels that Pocock moved to the Brumbies. How did that help the Force?! I am not suggesting that no Australians should have gone to the Rebels. They absolutely should have but the point is that NZ talent (and some South African) could have plugged holes across Australian SR franchises as they were weakened by the Rebels as well. The reality of Super Rugby once it expanded beyond 12 teams was that there was a huge imbalance in playing stocks. NZ has not expanded their franchise numbers solely because they have a small market. They could have done with another one for the talent they had though. The logic was to use expansion in Australia to be part driven by Kiwis. Instead NZR had no stake in the success of Melbourne. It’s comical how poor the planning was around the Rebels (and indeed the Force)…
@@Runboyrun89 Why on earth would DC have wanted to go and play in Melbourne? Australian rugby was at its strongest with three teams. However, a super rugby presence in Perth makes sense. Melbourne never did. It's AFL first and last. Hopefully with four teams the other sides from Oz will be more competitive in 2025 like the Brumbies and Reds were this year. One idea I do like is allowing players to be eligible for their respective countries as long as they are playing in Super Rugby.
Western Force getting axed was a massive blow for Super Rugby and definitely showed Rugby Australia’s true colours. Especially since a local millionaire pledge to finance the Force if they were allowed to stay and Melbourne was next to broke.
Rugby Australia’s mismanagement of the game borders on criminal. Perfect case study of how the Red Blazer, Old Shittonian RFC crowd is driving the sport into the ground.
From 2017 to 2020 they were out of the Super Rugby in favour of Melbourne. You’re right they playing now and Melbourne have gone into liquidation, funny that.
South Africa tried to buy a win,by changing the comp and scheduling,still couldn't win, Funny thing is, NZ couldn't care less,the one's moaning are SA, NZ hasn't said shite,
Disregard the delusional kiwis n aussies ... time will tell whos right and that will be south africa ... europe teams r leveling up and soon the south pacific will be irrelevant ... aussie rugby is dying and nz still think they r hot shit
@@morrisanderson818 I am a New Zealander. And I think that you must be a moron and that you talk garbage. It is no coincidence that the competition has been struggling to stay alive since South Africa abandoned it.
Good video up until minute 19. I disagree that rugby in general is on the decline. Mainly the decline is in Oceania, but worldwide it is growing. The Japanese competition is rising and more corporate investments there. South American teams are emerging, and Super Rugby Americas is a success. Top 14 just signed a huge TV deal. The problems are regional and not global.
2011 was the beginning of the end of Super Rugby, especially when they tried the NFL style conference system. Super 12 was the highest level of rugby there was and Suoer 14 was also pretty good.
Yeah the co-host was trying to blame SA "politics" when it's clear both countries (SA-NZ) were fighting for bigger piece of TV money pies. NZ had an advantage of being the ringleader of southern hemis. rugby, but the market is declining, esp. in Aus. (declining popularity & talents) and Pacifics (shifted interest to NRL); Drua & Moana should've been the one joining SR in mid-2010s instead of Sunwolves & Jaguares. SA decision to join europe scene is much clever since the market has no sign of decline while also shares similar time zones.
NZ didn’t have broadcasting rights, super sport South Africa did… Super Rugby was Top Sports Nass Botha’s creation in super 10! NZ screwed SANZAAR rugby with its “running rugby”, constant rule changes and South Africa and Australia funding the entire model whilst NZ continued to bleed the rest dry! NZ does not have money, nobody is following their rugby anymore and so tv viewership and ticket sales are down! Then there is NZ political correctness and it’s constant blaming of apartheid onto South Africa, when everyone knows it was England who perpetuated it against South Africa. Honestly, NZ as a SANZAAR member is not missed. I’ll be glad in 2025 when the Rugby Championship contract ends and we move to tours every other year! NZ can now play in Japan and against Fiji until Australia decide to reinvest in rugby. They did this to themselves and now they paying the price, Ireland is a far better model and I see South Africa moving into the America market with Ireland and Argentina in the next few years. Even NZ NPC rugby is terrible our Currie Cup can easily take on Americas franchises, but that would need a serious political shake up and SARU leaving liberal Cape Town who are the only franchise riding NZ meat at this point
Perth (despite being mad AFL) has the biggest English and South African ex-pat populations of any Australian city. Melbourne is *OBSESSED* with AFL. The only reason the NRL Storm team are successful in Melbourne is due to News Corp subsidising it massively for decades and NZ/England/NSW/Qld ex-pats and first gen ex-pats.
South Africa have the amount of players for 6 teams though. Australia doesn't have the depth for 5, not even close. It was more than fair to have 6 teams from South Africa. But the best format was Super 14 when everyone played everyone else once, alternating home/away every year. So 5 NZ, 5 SA, 4 Aus. The convoluted format is what alienated long-term fans, especially since it wasn't fair any more.
So a Japanese team playing in Singapore instead of it home country? That'd be like a baseball team based Oakland, CA playing in Sacramento or Las Vegas or a NYC football team playing in New Jersey.
For me, I live in Wellington, Hurricane's territory, and I just don't FEEL the 'canes. I support Wellington. The 5 Super Rugby franchises in NZ are just that, Franchises, 5 All Black trial squads run by New Zealand rugby. I'd like it more if we cancelled all of them and went back to our provinces, where there was tribalism. Top 5 provinces in NZ's NPC can qualify for the Super Rugby Pacifica comp. It would balance things out with the Australian sides as well. Also a proper round robin. No 2 matches against other NZ sides for NZ sides and vic versa for Australia. It's just creating more of a thing that dilutes the product. In the past we played Canterbury at home one year, then away the next, it was an occasion getting them once every 2 years, its now ended up, play Crusaders twice, then meet again in a semi or final. Then back to the NPC where we play them again, and then again in a final, and they wonder why the crowds have gone?? Also I feel it's destroying Australian rugby. The Australian sides get a far easier round robin, and have sides in the last 4 almost every year, creating this false sense of 'yeah we're good, we're competitive'. They think they're doing enough. It would help rugby AU immensely to do away with a 'conference' type draw like there has been for the past decade or so.
Well done great breakdown. I'm am...was a Rebels fan from 2011. Sad to see us go 😢 thank goonmdness for the 8/12 finals. We made the quarters in our last year
The franchise was in steady decline when they expanded to 18 teams but it took a sharp spiral downwards when they couldnt reach a compromise with the Saffas and let them walk away. As a result, the competitiveness and appeal of the game also dipped as a result. Lastly, more people are interested in league now instead in NZ, Australia and pacific island nations.
Partially right as rugby is third choice in Australia but still first choice in New Zealand and in Tonga , Samoa and Fiji by a considerable margin. And that maybe wont stay the same unless changes are made.
@@drinkingup2157 still first choice in NZ only, mate. And even that is questionable if you see the crowds they draw in apart from the Super Rugby finals. Only All Blacks rest Rugby is still strong. As for the Pacific nations, there's simply more money in league..
League was very big in the media when the warriors first started in the NRL and everyone thought League was taking over Union in NZ with big crowds and TV popularity. The next twenty years or so League dwindled as League doesn't have very strong foundations in NZ compared to Union and you need more than hype to succeed. The Warriors after being forced to play in OZ for 2 seasons during the pandemic finally got to come home and the League public rightly so celebrated by again filling the stadium after having a drought for approx 2 years, so currently League is still in that high but it will dwindle again as the grassroots of League in NZ is very weak and you need more than hype to do consistently well. This is fairly obvious other than in certain areas of Auckland where they all believe that League is taking over because they only mix with other League fans and are not the smartest tools in the shed. With that said Union does need continual improvement.
I remember being disproportionately annoyed by the Sunwolves branding. I know it’s a minor detail in the grand scheme of things, but it was pretty instructive of how half-arsed the whole affair was. No one knows what a “Sunwolf” is; it has nothing to do with Japanese culture, the logo looked like it was made in Microsoft Office, and to top it off, it can’t even be pronounced by native Japanese speakers! Your interviewee was right. It was a Barbarians’ side in Tokyo. Japanese rugby certainly deserved more respect than this gimmick team.
I think the name is sunwolf is quite representative of Japanese taste. They just like that kind of name, you can look at any sports league in japan and you gonna find weird team name for English speaker. Basically I think the whole branding is very japanese.
TBF Suntory Sunwolves, the one whose brand was used by SR, is one of the most popular club in Japan. But I get your point, it was a complete gimmick by either JRU or SR as the club has zero ties to each other. also the japanese sports branding is much different than other kind of sports branding. J-League clubs have weird names (sometimes not in English like Yokohama Marinos/Sanfrecce Hiroshima/Jubilo Iwata etc.) but it has connection to their local culture.
As someone from England who 10 ago after working with some South Africans, Aussies, and Kiwis got into Super Rugby i thought it was a much better product, quicker, faster, more exciting rugby then anywhere else and as you said with South Africa being in a similar timezone to the UK you got games on tv that were easy to watch without having to get up at the break of dawn, which on a Saturday was tough and rarely happened. I thought expansion into Japan was a decent idea, but thought splitting the games between Japan and Singapore was always going to be problematic. I think what anyone in Europe didn't understand is how far Japan is from Australia so i think they're needed to be a while conference in this region, i don't know how you'd do that, and it would have to be given time before it was ever going to be competitive, if that ever happened, except for the odd year, which i don't see as a bad thing The same is the case with the Jaguares in Argentina. Could it be possible to have 2 Argentinian teams, maybe one in Rosario, a team in Chile (loved watching then in the recent World Cup), one in Uruguay? I don't see having teams on South and North America working, the distance is the same as between Japan and Australia so the travel and costs just would make this very difficult, especially expanding into countries with no rugby heritage and other established sports to have to compete against. The problem would be there would need to be funding over a period of time to get a conference established and the question has to be is there an appetite to sustain it after the subsidy is taken away. That said i do think having teams in Argentina and Japan is important, and should be important to these nations, if they want to develop their national rugby teams and the supply of players. I do think South Africa leaving to compete in European competitions was the biggest blow to Super Rugby, Australia doing so badly in the World Cup and seemingly having problems competing with RFL and AFL a close second. Without South Africa i am not sure there is enough quality and despite it still being occasionally interesting to watch i find it hard to see Super Rugby getting back to where it was in the near future. Whether it will work out for South African clubs where things previously are I'm not sure either, but i guess it is a financial thing, but if over time it starts to affect the national team's competitiveness maybe they could reassess things, i always felt playing the Aussie and Kiwi teams benefited then massively, although the way the game has developed in France and Ireland playing much the same quick ball flowing rugby means that the whole game has changed from where we were 10 years ago.
The loss of SA is a big factor due to their style of game,which bought a different dimension to the tournament.In that regard it added to the tournament.But,bear in mind,SA teams only won 4 titles in 20 odd yrs.And I think this was one of the drivers for SA to go north ( along with better timezones,and more money). Add in a crippling player drain - in both NZ/AUS - and it only waters down the game more.And that won't change,if anything,it will get worse.
@@richardscanlan3419 You realise that the Aus teams had the exact same record in terms of SR titles. 4 titles in 20 years (Brumbies - 2; Waratahs - 1; Reds - 1).
@@MPDL21 the difference,though,is Australia,unlike SA,has nowhere else to go. Also,sadly,NZ,is in the same position.Personally,I would like to see NZR restore the NPC to its rightful position. But,unfortunately,NZ doesn't have the financial means to do so.
As chaotic as things were back in the amateur era, there were a lot of positives we almost took for granted. One being the large crowds that went to certain club games especially the ones with long standing rivalries. Creating franchises lead to better organisation and lots of excellent rugby, but its hard to manufacture history and long standing rivalry.
Super Rugby should be a top 4 finals system coming from a Queensland Reds fan we did not deserve finals last season we lost too many close games & if you make it a top 4 finals system it guarantees every team who makes finals will have a winning record & genuinely deserve to be there
I really don't get why domestic -> continental isn't the model for club rugby literally everywhere. Inter-continental games are the international stage, and I'd argue all these global comps harm the unique selling point of the large internationals.
It's Interest that it's usually only people from NZ complaining about the state of the game of rugby!!! The Northern hemisphere and South Africa are not complaining about rugby "dying" or fan interaction....
I am ecstatic that SA rugby is now out of so called Super Rugby. It never did anything for us. Keep your competition, it sucks! We now play in Europe and they play us here, and everyone is happy, all the other countries rugby is improving, and we get a LOT of visiting fans.. TOURISM! Total bullshit to diss SA as a country, we are fast becoming a great tourism destination, its great to come here!
its better now. No one liked it when it was bloated and now we are seeing some of the best games ever. Its just a shame that most teams cant hold a candle to the nz teams. They come in and get a hiding.
The optimum number of teams in Super Rugby were the original 12 plus one expansion team The Jaguaries. All the other teams that were introduced struggled for any sucess. In the early days of the Super Rugby all of the top players were based in their respective countries meaning the depth of talent was excellent. Players moving en masse to the NH weakened the quality of the teams especially SA teams then with SA leaving was a major blow.
Personally from what I can see, Super Rugby need to make sure that they need to have a solid Australia footing. In that make sure that they have at least one team in every state and territory in Australia, and at least 2 in New Zealand. From that point then maybe start to expand in to South East Asia and the Pacific. And over time setup an 8 to 12 team conferences. In that 8 teams in a conference will be the minimum with 12 being the max. Doing so keeping the mix of time zone and geography in mind. In that there could be a Pacific conferences made up with teams from New Zealand, and the Pacific. Australasia conferences made up of teams from the east coast of Australia, long with Tasmania and PNG. Maybe add teams form Japan in to that conference. Then have a South East Asia conference with teams from Perth, Darwin, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippians. If there are expansion teams that are outside of of the regions I names. Like in South Australia. Set it up so there will be added in to the correct conferences, but with building up the critical mass of teams so they would be spun off in to there own conference. Sound like that last setting up Super Rugby with that in mind was poorly implemented as they were setting up teams in a random locations rather then going in to an geographical area first and building up a conference that way.
Super rugby had such a grow 5 years ago and then imploded to the point i thought this year it got suspended for some reason until the final was getting close and found a youtube notification about it
I've never watched rugby as far as on a regular basis. They are athletes though. The UFC has a champion that use to play rugby. He's from either Australia or New Zealand I can't remember. Alexander Volkanovski was 200 plus pounds for rugby and now he's fighting at 145 pounds lol great video
no one's mentioned the NRL. I think Super Rugby just needs to sort out how it's relevant in Australia, and even NZ a few years down the line, with the NRL on the march. A Super Rugby semi final in NZ has just been rescheduled to accommodate Warriors regular season game! The talk should be about retraction into an 8 team, competitive competition with a good brand, where the contracts can be high enough to keep players leaving for Europe, Japan and the NRL. Talk of expansion to Hawaii, LA, Ulan Bator, the moon, is just delusional!
Hey there as an Aussie it always pains to see Aussie teams cut like the Force in 2017 and now the Rebels. I do understand that Aussie teams are not as competitive as the Kiwi teams but the Australian teams use a salary cap and the Kiwi teams do not. Which allows some teams to have 3 or 4 current All Blacks and high Talent up and coming players from around the world. Another funny thing is the Fijian drua are part funded by the Australian government's "PacificAus Sports" program which allocates (aud)52 million to grow sports in the pacific. (This is from the official government website.) "Fiji Rugby thanked the Australian Government's PacificAus Sports program for providing seed funding for the club's inclusion in Super Rugby Pacific." What NZR needs to do is fund a Tongan and a Samoan team. Not a joint team that's based in NZ. NZR could also put the winner of last year's NPC into the Super Rugby as a wildcard team.(or the highest ranked team that doesn't have a Super Rugby team) In 2023 the NPC winner was the Taranaki Bulls. NZ could then use Moana as a Māori and Pasifika team or rebrand. So my 2025 team list would be (Aust.) 1. Reds 2. Brumbies 3. Force 4. Waratahs 5. Rebels (NZ) 6. Crusaders 7. Chiefs 8. Blues 9. Hurricanes 10. Highlanders 11. Moana 12. Taranaki Bulls (Pacific) 13. Fiji Drua 14. Samoa 15. Tonga As there is 15 teams you you have 3 conferences I'd you so pleased. In regards to Argentina it seems you were unaware that there is another 'Super Rugby' competition mainly based in South America (but also have one USA Colorado team that was in MLR before.) The last 2 years the winning club is from Uruguay. I also like the idea of a 5 round Champion's League style pay-off with say the top 4 Super Rugby Pacific teams and the winner of Super Rugby America, Major League Rugby, Japan League One (Top League)
Soft reset is needed Super Rugby Pacific should be what the European Champions Cup is. AU/NZ/JP participants Bring in Japanese teams based on performance (this will increase broadcast revenue) Split AU & NZ into separate leagues. Top 4 in each qualify for Super Rugby NZ should take the Drua and Pasifika AU need to keep the Rebels and bring in an Adelaide franchise. Along with one other (nsw or qld) 7 teams ea. 12 rounds. Super rugby played parallel to domestic leagues
@wlk2408 would love some of that saudi money to come to Rugby I won't lie! Good idea. Although I don't see japan ditching their 3 tier domestic competitions. A domestic setup AU & NZ can only dream of. All fans agree that change is needed
Most of Rugby franchises unfortunately are short sighted. Little care is taken into growing the game, making it more competitive instead franchises look to link with other big franchises with the hope it will become a success. We need a collaboration of highly experienced Rugby individuals and highly experienced business men, but only a businessman who wants the game to grow and flourish. Most club Rugby is in a frail state unless it’s in France, of the US MLR sells itself to another league it will be the worst thing they could do, let the domestic league in the US build it’s own rivalry within its own nation rather than sell your soul to a league which is short sighted and a dreadful look for Rugby
I'd love the super rugby Americas to become a sort of second tier to sr, I'd argue the Argentinian teams would be competitive in some years and the Chilean, Uruguayan and Paraguayan wouldn't be far off
Easiest format would be champions league format, 4 groups with 6 teams per group and only play teams in your group, top two of four groups= 8 teams enter the quarter finals, semifinals and final
Australian Rugbys administration has had their so far up their arse it’s not even Funny. They don’t even realise that no one has any interest or relatability. A talent relied on a bunch of private schools simply goes against the Aussie ethos. Need to connect with the working class.
A new CEO is a positive step, but coming from the A-League doesn’t bode well. As someone who’s a passionate A-League supporter, I can tell you now that there has been significant mistakes with that organization since it split off from Football Australia.
Exactly my first thoughts! I follow League, A-Liga and Union (though that has dropped off lately, and become more of a long mourning phase for a friend in palliative care), and hearing that the great hope of Super Rugby is an A League exec is just…. Nothing has been learned at all from the last decade and a half of gross mismanagement, has it?
The people who ran the comp were Incompetant. There was Zero interest in Australia because Union was dying with too many Aussie teams with no junior or supporter base. It is now effectively dead in Australia.
It’s an interesting one really, South America (and Colorado) has Super Rugby Americas and MLR is actually quite popular in the west coast market. The Top league in Japan is incredibly strong these days so a return to Japan will not be on my cards. SA are competing in Europe but few in Europe are happy about it because A. They’re not European and B. They’re taking up places in European competitions that could’ve been used for other European teams like those in the Europe Super Cup. I feel SA outside of the springboks are struggling due to attendances and money flow making all the big players leave for European clubs or Japan which has exacerbated the problem in SA. Super Rugby will survive but Australia is in turmoil and New Zealand continues to dominate.
@@subbie5498 I never said they are not popular but it’s known all around Europe that the South African teams struggle financially compared to some of the other unions within Europe but that might more be down to the financial state of SA rather than any sporting issue. I have mates who play in the URC and they hate the fact they have to travel down to SA for domestic matches. It’s a lot of strain on the clubs and players who are already struggling either financially or with fatigue.
Its quite clear now with the Rebels folding and Super Rugby struggling with money. Super Rugby cant afford to be Super any more. Super Rugby doesn't need to expand any further it actually needs to just focus on growing the game where it is. Adding a new team would be absoutley stupid as people already care so little for the existing teams, how would people be expected to care for an completely new franchise or a old team being introduced
I don’t get this focus on expansion - especially in Australia, there’s plenty of other high quality sport, and winning teams in domestic competitions for people to enjoy locally. People like winners. Just having more awful teams damages the brand of a sport as a whole, and lowers standards. Focusing on having consistently competitive Queensland and NSW teams along with the Brumbies should have been RAs focus. Resources should have been put into finding new, inventive ways to boost and monetise their brands instead of wasting resources on no-hoper expansion teams.
Geography, money and TV markets just don't add up. The only real money is in Test rugby, but you have to have the players playing at a high enough level between tests for them to be credible. It's just a case of managing the losses from super rugby.
The aru need to invest in making Brisbane and Sydney rugby professional. A 12 team promotion and relegation “national” competition between the two cities clubs . All clubs be at least semi pro and the aru or tv to subsidise the national comp . 8 team semis All teams that miss finals are relegated for both grand finalists in Sydney and Brisbane comps. With this there will be way more pathways young talent that won’t be lost to league or the game altogether
Super Rugby needs a total reset.The format needed going forward is 8 teams, the 5 NZ franchises and 3 Australian, Queensland, NSW, ACT. Every team plays twice 14 Games, Top 4 Finals format!!
Super 12 was the best by far.they shouldve made it similar to say the football leagues,super 12(epl,laliga,seria a) and a seperate competition with all the other sides in there,end of the season 3 teams get relegated from super 12 and 3 teams promoted from the other competition.
Since super rugby started Australia Wallabies rugby union tame been bad. When the Wallabies was good Australia one the union codes in world but now local competition in world
It will not happen ... DSTV in South Africa are so greedy ... the subs are so hi they are losing a lot of subscribers ... I have dumped them ... rather watch the games later in RUclips
Dstv is not bad for 899 zar pm. @36 pounds UK. But here to watch rugby it's 30 pounds for tnt sport on discover for all champions cup rugby and ufc. Then international matches are on sky another 40 pounds and the urc is on viaplay or premier sports at 15 pounds a month. World has gone mad !!!
AB dominance in Rugby is the result of their physical and mental approach to the contact area. You have to dominate your opponent. Impose your physicality on them. AB dominance in Rugby is second to none. Razor will ressurect this legendary AB tradition. Its been missing a while. Super Rugby player's will learn history.
It failed because Australia Failed the Southern States have AFL and the Northern states NRL where all the Rugby Talent is . Rugby Union is dead and finished in Australia so NZ will have to carry the banner
Mate. Imagine how dominant in Union Australia would be if the NRL talent went only there, dont even have to include the AFL blokes because if NRL and AFL didnt exist Australia would be the dominant rugby country on the planet undisputedly forever lol 8 world cups
@@jormundgandr88the Wahs are already getting way bigger crowds than the Blues in Auckland as well, so the decline has begun already surprisingly. NZ basketball numbers are way up on union as well it seems
@@CommissionerManu The blues largely have a different fan base than the Warriors so they are not necessarily in head to head competition however the Blues need to market themselves a lot better. The average Warriors supporter is quite different to the Blues supporters
SA leaving Super Rugby weakened NZ & AUS. I wonder what leaving SANZAAR will do. I guess we’ll see in the next two years because seemingly the Boks are definitely bouncing.
The problem has always been New Zealand is a victim of their own success, they win too many games. It's part of the reason why South Africa left, it's why Australian teams don't get people going to their games and it's why Super Rugby struggles to get other countries involved. Add to that the countries (when SA and Argentina were involved) were so far apart and it's a wonder SR has lasted as long. Tbh NZ rugby will always be strong even if they never played another international club game but the NZ clubs and players want the international money so they always strive to keep SR going.
@@merlotonthego6412 Pretty much, they needed to start losing to the SA and Aussie teams to make them feel better, they tried with conferences to make it easier for them but it obviously wasn't enough.
I have been saying for 5 years now that they should just end super rugby. It can’t work & make money without South Africa. It has just become NZ losing money and propping up Australian rugby and the Pacific Islands. NZ owes these other nations nothing.
It’d because 99% of fans, including yourselves and most the people in the comments, don’t understand sports. The sport itself isn’t relevant. It’s all about the teams, the rivalries and hype. Every sport is just hype. Instead of creating ridiculous franchises in Argentina and Japan, let alone Melbourne and Perth, they should have really focused on Queensland and New South Wales in the early days. Bring historic successful clubs from Brisbane and New South Wales in as the new teams. The biggest games in all of sports are cross-city rivalries. In football, people will say West Ham and millwally, 2 relative minnows of England trophy wise, are the biggest rivalry in England. It gets people talking and watching. A Sydney or Brisbane derby would have done loads more to get interest. It’s what makes the nrl and the state of origin so popular. To go to Melbourne and Perth instead of their heartlands was their biggest error
get the jaguars back with maybe an extra Argentina team and maybe a peru team if they wanted to and the two japan teams so then u have two 7 team conferences
Eddie never coached The Stormers - he accepted an initial offer but then rescinded it and went to coach England. Its important to know what really goes on in life otherwise you're laughing at yourself with your emojis there.
Super Rugby went downhill, because of SA,got greedy, thought they were good enough for another team, Aus thinking along the same lines followed,so from the, successful Super 12 to the $#@? fess that followed,SA thinking,they were the Power changed the whole schedules, ref's home and away,and like their politicians,???ked everything up,we in NZ know why, Because the Power SA thought they were, hardly won the comp,and that was a kick in the ball bags for them But NZ knew, they,SA wanted to go North,same timezone etc,so off they went,and then started moaning,NZRFU, kicked them out, whatever, Glad they left,now we can concentrate on helping our neighbours,the island's nation's, Sad the Japanese never got a fair shake,blame SA for that as well,
Ag please, NZ and Aus kicked SA because they wanted all the revenue for themselfs this while SA brought in the most money. Dont cry now you got wat you asked for
@@neilpieterse9614 rubbish.SA whined for yrs,threatening to go north if NZ/AUS didn't cave into their constant demands.And then used COVID to do exactly that. But you keep telling yourself that it's all down to those nasty antipodeans. Just another arrogant,pig ignorant saffer.
@@neilpieterse9614 NZ and Aus did nothing of the sort.You obviously have a short memory since the saffers spent their time in the comp constantly threatening to go north if they didn't get what they wanted. And then used the COVID situation to do just that .That's reality, But then,you lot are always good with the conspiracy theories.You need look no further than your hero Erasmus for confirmation of that.
How did SA teams dilute the competition? SA teams brought viewership, crowds and revenue that is dearly needed for all super rugby teams right now. The Rebels is the first victim for others to follow. Look at the success of the URC competition where SA teams are right now - the success of the URC and the demise of super rugby is no coincidence. NZ rugby needs SA rugby now more than ever.
@@merlotonthego6412 SA added teams,but you're right,I should have included the aussies as well. The original comp was fine until both SA and oz pushed for more teams. As for the demise of the NZ game,well,we.ve been told that would happen ever since the game went pro.And yet,we are still here....
Preferably the Super Rugby teams would be in a perfect world IMO: 🇦🇺 Reds Brumbies Waratahs Force 🇦🇷 Jaguares 🇿🇦 Bulls Stormers Sharks Cats/Lions 🇳🇿 Blues Crusaders Chiefs Highlanders Hurricanes 🇫🇯 Drua 🇼🇸🇹🇴 Moana Pasifika (although individual teams for both countries would be ideal). But anyways RA flopping on not strengthening the grassroots overtaken by the NRL and not sticking with 3 or 4 teams to build on is a reflection of how pathetic the previous board was playing politics and being greedy. 💸
At the moment, Super rugby needs to just keep the status quo in terms of teams. With the Rebels now going bankrupt i think its actually a good thing for the competition as now those players will be shared amongst the Aussie teams & make them stronger. Also, from an NZ perspective, one less Aussie team is better as Australian teams aren't much of a drawcard here. Sky tv (main broadcaster of rugby in NZ) have revealed that this year's Super has been the most watched competition in over two decades which is massive for the game here as a lot people, mainly people from competing sports were saying that the game was finished. It definitely feels like a lot more people are talking rugby and anticipation for Razors first All Black squad is through the roof. If there were to be another team added to go back to 12 it really needs to be another NZ team. No one here really wants a team from Argentina or SA anymore
super rugby is a sunken ship the franchise system or model is not good here in New Zealand its done its time take it back to the provinces here in New Zealand professionalise the provinces term then into franchises im a big supporter of grassroots rugby and domestic professional rugby or a domestic comp here in New Zealand
Argentina South Africa. Australia New Zealand rugby should have each focus on there own Domestic Rugby championships first like Argentina should have had there own Domestic rugby Championship professional comp we all know South Africa has there own the currie cup Australia need to have there own domestic rugby professional comp New Zealand has there NPC Bunnings rugby championship then on to the actual Super Rugby Championship like the top 4 franchises club teams from Argetinas comp and the top 4 club franchise from South Africa currie cup the top 4 clubs or state sides from Australia's comp and the top four provinces sides from The New Zealand NPC Bunnings championship have them compete in a comp in actual Super Rugby Championship like a sixteen team comp four pools of 4 teams format from there to quarters semis and grand final this super rugby championship like the pool rounds like 1 pool group of 4 teams and games can be all played in Argentina a second pool group of four teams all games can be played in South Africa a third pool group of 4 teams all its games can be played in Australia a fourth pool group of four teams can be played in New Zealand each of these 4 pool groups of four teams each contain 1 Argentina club side 1 South Africa side 1 Australia side 1 New Zealand side per pool these are just ideas
The 18 team format was an absolute clusterfuck. The scheduling was a mess, the travel was a mess and it just over complicated the competition to the point where the average joe needed a phd to work out the table. Worse still was the sunwolves were seen as mostly a cynical pre World Cup cash grab.
I miss the sunwolves
The Sunwolves had great fan support here but sadly no buy in from the JRFU.
The Sunwolves never had a fair chance - they did well on the very few home games they were allowed to play, including watching them THRASH my Blues in Tokyo. But SA forced them to play half their home games in Singapore, which made an already uphill challenge for a new team harder (I imagine the Jaguares would have had similar challenges if they had to play half their home games in Miami or Hawaii). Japanese crowds wanted more Super Rugby, but Super Rugby kinda screwed Japan which made the JRFU rightly switch focus to setting up their own JRLO competition, which has taken a bunch of talent out of Super Rugby and put them in a pretty entertaining all stars competition in Japan - and really killed the chances of Super Rugby being taken seriously up here again.
Super Rugby should be a Champions League competition of the Asia pacific
@@_peepyopee I like that idea and I think the top JRLO teams could compete with Super Rugby teams, but MLR isn’t there yet. Perhaps an MLR selection team..?
@hikosaemon I think MLR and Super Rugby Americas could do a similar thing
Make super rugby the Champions League of North and South America
Winners/finalists of the Super Rugby Pacifc, Americas, and Euro Champions Cup should battle it out to find out who the best franchise in the world is
Thanks for the collab!! Looks awesome!! Great to see someone from your part of the world really getting into our game in NZ!!!
South Africa was carrying Super Rugby commercially. Massive TV viewership, biggest crowds, big corporate sponsors (prime example was seeing Investec Bank branding all around NZ grounds - they don't even operate in NZ but advertised there for SA viewership). All of the above is now contributing to making the URC a massive commercial success which is going from strength to strength and smashing viewership records every year.
Super Rugby lost it's golden goose and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Lol, found the saffa 😂
Pipe dream. Only the Stormers draw crowds. South Africa has some issues to work out politically, I'm not optimistic about the future.
@@illegalkiwi2193 I am not one, but I have been to plenty of rugby matches in South Africa, and the crowds there dwarf those in the rest of Super Rugby.
@@wlk2408 He was right for a certain time period. NZRU began seeing the cracks in South Africas political instability, failing economy, and rise in crime. Players well being were put at risk travelling there. It was a no brainer to separate from South Africa until they sort their country out. Which is going to take decades, if at all.
@@KissellMissile Only at the URC matches. The Curry Cup has suffered massively to the point where matches are losing crowds and electricity
The Melbourne Rebels were always on a hiding to nothing. In the Rugby codes, League had got a big head start with the Melbourne Storm there since 1998 and had continued success from there until today. Of course, it goes without saying the elephant in the room, Australian Rules Football. The AFL is religion in Melbourne and everyone else is fighting over the bread crumbs left over. The Rebels may have had a better chance if they were based in Adelaide, than Melbourne.
The Rebels were a good microcosm of the problems with the Super Rugby approach generally.
The Rebels should always have been a joint venture amongst the three Unions.
It makes no sense in a city with tens of thousands of Kiwis and South Africans (more so Kiwis, South Africans more so in Perth and were perfect for the Force) to ignore this dynamic.
At the outset, a few top All Blacks and Springboks should have been moved there along with some Wallabies.
The issue is vanity. Australian Rugby thought they needed another team to develop players to compete internationally rather than play the slow game. Inevitably a commercially successful Melbourne team would start producing players.
At the outset, someone like a Dan Carter should have been moved to Melbourne.
This goes to the short sightedness of the NZR. They were happy for him to be at home in Christchurch in his bubble as it clearly worked well for the All Blacks.
But the thinking needed to be broader. The NZR simply had to have a stake in the success of the team located in the second biggest city in the region.
For too long the thought process was on Internationals rather than minding the back yard of Super Rugby.
What we got instead was the Rebels raiding other SR Australia franchises for players and big names (Beale, O’Connor). This weakened the other SR franchises in Australia. I remember the same year that O’Connor went to the Rebels that Pocock moved to the Brumbies. How did that help the Force?!
I am not suggesting that no Australians should have gone to the Rebels. They absolutely should have but the point is that NZ talent (and some South African) could have plugged holes across Australian SR franchises as they were weakened by the Rebels as well.
The reality of Super Rugby once it expanded beyond 12 teams was that there was a huge imbalance in playing stocks. NZ has not expanded their franchise numbers solely because they have a small market. They could have done with another one for the talent they had though. The logic was to use expansion in Australia to be part driven by Kiwis. Instead NZR had no stake in the success of Melbourne.
It’s comical how poor the planning was around the Rebels (and indeed the Force)…
The storm is seen as a joke by most of Melbourne.
@@Runboyrun89 Why on earth would DC have wanted to go and play in Melbourne? Australian rugby was at its strongest with three teams. However, a super rugby presence in Perth makes sense. Melbourne never did. It's AFL first and last. Hopefully with four teams the other sides from Oz will be more competitive in 2025 like the Brumbies and Reds were this year. One idea I do like is allowing players to be eligible for their respective countries as long as they are playing in Super Rugby.
If the Storm are seen as a joke, what are the Rebels with their 4,000 crowds and regular embarrassing defeats?
Yep, the Rebels were always a basket case although basing them in Adelaide is interesting, especially with the AFL following there in SA as in VIC.
So glad as a saffa we left this cluster cluck.🎉😂
Please help the Dutch and Germans with their rugby. Dankie🇳🇱🏉🇩🇪Danke
Super rugby letting SA teams go was crazy
Super 12 was the best times
Super 15 was
SUPER 14
Super 12 was the ultimate! All teams were pretty equal and every single game was awesome.
100% way better and sounded better too.
12 was awesome, 14 or 16 was alright, but 18 teams eventually became detrimental to Super Rugby.
Western Force getting axed was a massive blow for Super Rugby and definitely showed Rugby Australia’s true colours. Especially since a local millionaire pledge to finance the Force if they were allowed to stay and Melbourne was next to broke.
the western force are still playing
Rugby Australia’s mismanagement of the game borders on criminal. Perfect case study of how the Red Blazer, Old Shittonian RFC crowd is driving the sport into the ground.
From 2017 to 2020 they were out of the Super Rugby in favour of Melbourne. You’re right they playing now and Melbourne have gone into liquidation, funny that.
They were dumped due to pressure from NZR, hence why SR is dumb.
South Africa carried Super Rugby. Once they left there's unfortunately no way back
@kensedgers5632another facts denier...
South Africa tried to buy a win,by changing the comp and scheduling,still couldn't win,
Funny thing is, NZ couldn't care less,the one's moaning are SA, NZ hasn't said shite,
Disregard the delusional kiwis n aussies ... time will tell whos right and that will be south africa ... europe teams r leveling up and soon the south pacific will be irrelevant ... aussie rugby is dying and nz still think they r hot shit
@@morrisanderson818 We good in Europe mate .
@@morrisanderson818 I am a New Zealander. And I think that you must be a moron and that you talk garbage.
It is no coincidence that the competition has been struggling to stay alive since South Africa abandoned it.
Good video up until minute 19. I disagree that rugby in general is on the decline. Mainly the decline is in Oceania, but worldwide it is growing. The Japanese competition is rising and more corporate investments there. South American teams are emerging, and Super Rugby Americas is a success. Top 14 just signed a huge TV deal. The problems are regional and not global.
2011 was the beginning of the end of Super Rugby, especially when they tried the NFL style conference system. Super 12 was the highest level of rugby there was and Suoer 14 was also pretty good.
Indeed, should've expanded to the Pacific and no more by the start of the 2010s.
Really love the rugby coverage. I generally follow Munster in URC but love the insight into southern hemisphere rugby.
Wow, super one-sided with your expert’s views regarding SA rugby.
Lekker deur die kak né...
Yeah the co-host was trying to blame SA "politics" when it's clear both countries (SA-NZ) were fighting for bigger piece of TV money pies.
NZ had an advantage of being the ringleader of southern hemis. rugby, but the market is declining, esp. in Aus. (declining popularity & talents) and Pacifics (shifted interest to NRL); Drua & Moana should've been the one joining SR in mid-2010s instead of Sunwolves & Jaguares.
SA decision to join europe scene is much clever since the market has no sign of decline while also shares similar time zones.
NZ didn’t have broadcasting rights, super sport South Africa did… Super Rugby was Top Sports Nass Botha’s creation in super 10! NZ screwed SANZAAR rugby with its “running rugby”, constant rule changes and South Africa and Australia funding the entire model whilst NZ continued to bleed the rest dry! NZ does not have money, nobody is following their rugby anymore and so tv viewership and ticket sales are down! Then there is NZ political correctness and it’s constant blaming of apartheid onto South Africa, when everyone knows it was England who perpetuated it against South Africa. Honestly, NZ as a SANZAAR member is not missed. I’ll be glad in 2025 when the Rugby Championship contract ends and we move to tours every other year! NZ can now play in Japan and against Fiji until Australia decide to reinvest in rugby. They did this to themselves and now they paying the price, Ireland is a far better model and I see South Africa moving into the America market with Ireland and Argentina in the next few years. Even NZ NPC rugby is terrible our Currie Cup can easily take on Americas franchises, but that would need a serious political shake up and SARU leaving liberal Cape Town who are the only franchise riding NZ meat at this point
Yes agreed what an idiot
. He was bias good fucken luck with future of Super Rugby. Oz and NZ can beg for the scraps
Perth (despite being mad AFL) has the biggest English and South African ex-pat populations of any Australian city. Melbourne is *OBSESSED* with AFL. The only reason the NRL Storm team are successful in Melbourne is due to News Corp subsidising it massively for decades and NZ/England/NSW/Qld ex-pats and first gen ex-pats.
South Africa have the amount of players for 6 teams though. Australia doesn't have the depth for 5, not even close.
It was more than fair to have 6 teams from South Africa.
But the best format was Super 14 when everyone played everyone else once, alternating home/away every year. So 5 NZ, 5 SA, 4 Aus. The convoluted format is what alienated long-term fans, especially since it wasn't fair any more.
So a Japanese team playing in Singapore instead of it home country? That'd be like a baseball team based Oakland, CA playing in Sacramento or Las Vegas or a NYC football team playing in New Jersey.
That would be like the Oakland baseball team playing in Sacramento had Oakland also brutally occupied Sacramento during World War II.
I am not sure if you are joking.Both NYC teams plays in New Jersey
@@luqmaanabrahams1971 Yeah I’m joking 😂
For me, I live in Wellington, Hurricane's territory, and I just don't FEEL the 'canes. I support Wellington. The 5 Super Rugby franchises in NZ are just that, Franchises, 5 All Black trial squads run by New Zealand rugby. I'd like it more if we cancelled all of them and went back to our provinces, where there was tribalism. Top 5 provinces in NZ's NPC can qualify for the Super Rugby Pacifica comp. It would balance things out with the Australian sides as well.
Also a proper round robin. No 2 matches against other NZ sides for NZ sides and vic versa for Australia. It's just creating more of a thing that dilutes the product. In the past we played Canterbury at home one year, then away the next, it was an occasion getting them once every 2 years, its now ended up, play Crusaders twice, then meet again in a semi or final. Then back to the NPC where we play them again, and then again in a final, and they wonder why the crowds have gone?? Also I feel it's destroying Australian rugby. The Australian sides get a far easier round robin, and have sides in the last 4 almost every year, creating this false sense of 'yeah we're good, we're competitive'. They think they're doing enough. It would help rugby AU immensely to do away with a 'conference' type draw like there has been for the past decade or so.
Well done great breakdown. I'm am...was a Rebels fan from 2011. Sad to see us go 😢 thank goonmdness for the 8/12 finals. We made the quarters in our last year
The franchise was in steady decline when they expanded to 18 teams but it took a sharp spiral downwards when they couldnt reach a compromise with the Saffas and let them walk away. As a result, the competitiveness and appeal of the game also dipped as a result. Lastly, more people are interested in league now instead in NZ, Australia and pacific island nations.
Partially right as rugby is third choice in Australia but still first choice in New Zealand and in Tonga , Samoa and Fiji by a considerable margin. And that maybe wont stay the same unless changes are made.
@@drinkingup2157 still first choice in NZ only, mate. And even that is questionable if you see the crowds they draw in apart from the Super Rugby finals. Only All Blacks rest Rugby is still strong. As for the Pacific nations, there's simply more money in league..
League was very big in the media when the warriors first started in the NRL and everyone thought League was taking over Union in NZ with big crowds and TV popularity. The next twenty years or so League dwindled as League doesn't have very strong foundations in NZ compared to Union and you need more than hype to succeed. The Warriors after being forced to play in OZ for 2 seasons during the pandemic finally got to come home and the League public rightly so celebrated by again filling the stadium after having a drought for approx 2 years, so currently League is still in that high but it will dwindle again as the grassroots of League in NZ is very weak and you need more than hype to do consistently well. This is fairly obvious other than in certain areas of Auckland where they all believe that League is taking over because they only mix with other League fans and are not the smartest tools in the shed. With that said Union does need continual improvement.
I remember being disproportionately annoyed by the Sunwolves branding.
I know it’s a minor detail in the grand scheme of things, but it was pretty instructive of how half-arsed the whole affair was.
No one knows what a “Sunwolf” is; it has nothing to do with Japanese culture, the logo looked like it was made in Microsoft Office, and to top it off, it can’t even be pronounced by native Japanese speakers!
Your interviewee was right. It was a Barbarians’ side in Tokyo. Japanese rugby certainly deserved more respect than this gimmick team.
I think the name is sunwolf is quite representative of Japanese taste. They just like that kind of name, you can look at any sports league in japan and you gonna find weird team name for English speaker. Basically I think the whole branding is very japanese.
TBF Suntory Sunwolves, the one whose brand was used by SR, is one of the most popular club in Japan. But I get your point, it was a complete gimmick by either JRU or SR as the club has zero ties to each other.
also the japanese sports branding is much different than other kind of sports branding. J-League clubs have weird names (sometimes not in English like Yokohama Marinos/Sanfrecce Hiroshima/Jubilo Iwata etc.) but it has connection to their local culture.
I'm old enough to remember the Super 10...
What do you expect,losing the Boks hurt more than you'll admit.
♥️🇿🇦
As someone from England who 10 ago after working with some South Africans, Aussies, and Kiwis got into Super Rugby i thought it was a much better product, quicker, faster, more exciting rugby then anywhere else and as you said with South Africa being in a similar timezone to the UK you got games on tv that were easy to watch without having to get up at the break of dawn, which on a Saturday was tough and rarely happened.
I thought expansion into Japan was a decent idea, but thought splitting the games between Japan and Singapore was always going to be problematic. I think what anyone in Europe didn't understand is how far Japan is from Australia so i think they're needed to be a while conference in this region, i don't know how you'd do that, and it would have to be given time before it was ever going to be competitive, if that ever happened, except for the odd year, which i don't see as a bad thing
The same is the case with the Jaguares in Argentina. Could it be possible to have 2 Argentinian teams, maybe one in Rosario, a team in Chile (loved watching then in the recent World Cup), one in Uruguay? I don't see having teams on South and North America working, the distance is the same as between Japan and Australia so the travel and costs just would make this very difficult, especially expanding into countries with no rugby heritage and other established sports to have to compete against. The problem would be there would need to be funding over a period of time to get a conference established and the question has to be is there an appetite to sustain it after the subsidy is taken away.
That said i do think having teams in Argentina and Japan is important, and should be important to these nations, if they want to develop their national rugby teams and the supply of players.
I do think South Africa leaving to compete in European competitions was the biggest blow to Super Rugby, Australia doing so badly in the World Cup and seemingly having problems competing with RFL and AFL a close second. Without South Africa i am not sure there is enough quality and despite it still being occasionally interesting to watch i find it hard to see Super Rugby getting back to where it was in the near future.
Whether it will work out for South African clubs where things previously are I'm not sure either, but i guess it is a financial thing, but if over time it starts to affect the national team's competitiveness maybe they could reassess things, i always felt playing the Aussie and Kiwi teams benefited then massively, although the way the game has developed in France and Ireland playing much the same quick ball flowing rugby means that the whole game has changed from where we were 10 years ago.
The loss of SA is a big factor due to their style of game,which bought a different dimension to the tournament.In that regard it added to the tournament.But,bear in mind,SA teams only won 4 titles in 20 odd yrs.And I think this was one of the drivers for SA to go north ( along with better timezones,and more money).
Add in a crippling player drain - in both NZ/AUS - and it only waters down the game more.And that won't change,if anything,it will get worse.
@@richardscanlan3419 You realise that the Aus teams had the exact same record in terms of SR titles. 4 titles in 20 years (Brumbies - 2; Waratahs - 1; Reds - 1).
@@MPDL21 the difference,though,is Australia,unlike SA,has nowhere else to go.
Also,sadly,NZ,is in the same position.Personally,I would like to see NZR restore the NPC to its rightful position.
But,unfortunately,NZ doesn't have the financial means to do so.
@@richardscanlan3419nah i think covid 19 messed everything up
@@richardscanlan3419 Lol nope mate . Money , no stress travelling .We good now in Europe and I wish Super rugby the best.
As chaotic as things were back in the amateur era, there were a lot of positives we almost took for granted. One being the large crowds that went to certain club games especially the ones with long standing rivalries. Creating franchises lead to better organisation and lots of excellent rugby, but its hard to manufacture history and long standing rivalry.
Super Rugby is boring AF, that's why.
Super Rugby should be a top 4 finals system coming from a Queensland Reds fan we did not deserve finals last season we lost too many close games & if you make it a top 4 finals system it guarantees every team who makes finals will have a winning record & genuinely deserve to be there
I’m totally fine to blame this, and everything, on Eddie Jones
What happened? Massive amounts of arrogance, karma and hubris.
I really don't get why domestic -> continental isn't the model for club rugby literally everywhere. Inter-continental games are the international stage, and I'd argue all these global comps harm the unique selling point of the large internationals.
URC is the single most confusing league I've ever come across and I have 0 interest in following it even though I am a scotland club fan!
It's Interest that it's usually only people from NZ complaining about the state of the game of rugby!!! The Northern hemisphere and South Africa are not complaining about rugby "dying" or fan interaction....
I am ecstatic that SA rugby is now out of so called Super Rugby. It never did anything for us. Keep your competition, it sucks! We now play in Europe and they play us here, and everyone is happy, all the other countries rugby is improving, and we get a LOT of visiting fans.. TOURISM! Total bullshit to diss SA as a country, we are fast becoming a great tourism destination, its great to come here!
The more I learn about the state of Rugby club competition, the more bonkers everything seems
its better now. No one liked it when it was bloated and now we are seeing some of the best games ever. Its just a shame that most teams cant hold a candle to the nz teams. They come in and get a hiding.
Might change now that the rebels are gone
The optimum number of teams in Super Rugby were the original 12 plus one expansion team The Jaguaries. All the other teams that were introduced struggled for any sucess. In the early days of the Super Rugby all of the top players were based in their respective countries meaning the depth of talent was excellent. Players moving en masse to the NH weakened the quality of the teams especially SA teams then with SA leaving was a major blow.
Personally from what I can see, Super Rugby need to make sure that they need to have a solid Australia footing. In that make sure that they have at least one team in every state and territory in Australia, and at least 2 in New Zealand. From that point then maybe start to expand in to South East Asia and the Pacific. And over time setup an 8 to 12 team conferences. In that 8 teams in a conference will be the minimum with 12 being the max. Doing so keeping the mix of time zone and geography in mind. In that there could be a Pacific conferences made up with teams from New Zealand, and the Pacific. Australasia conferences made up of teams from the east coast of Australia, long with Tasmania and PNG. Maybe add teams form Japan in to that conference. Then have a South East Asia conference with teams from Perth, Darwin, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippians. If there are expansion teams that are outside of of the regions I names. Like in South Australia. Set it up so there will be added in to the correct conferences, but with building up the critical mass of teams so they would be spun off in to there own conference. Sound like that last setting up Super Rugby with that in mind was poorly implemented as they were setting up teams in a random locations rather then going in to an geographical area first and building up a conference that way.
Super rugby had such a grow 5 years ago and then imploded to the point i thought this year it got suspended for some reason until the final was getting close and found a youtube notification about it
I've never watched rugby as far as on a regular basis. They are athletes though. The UFC has a champion that use to play rugby. He's from either Australia or New Zealand I can't remember. Alexander Volkanovski was 200 plus pounds for rugby and now he's fighting at 145 pounds lol great video
Volk played rugby league the working class game that broke off from rugby union in 1895 been professional since then as well
"Rugby league the working class game" say that out loud and you'll realise how retarded that sounds l@@mario18661
no one's mentioned the NRL. I think Super Rugby just needs to sort out how it's relevant in Australia, and even NZ a few years down the line, with the NRL on the march. A Super Rugby semi final in NZ has just been rescheduled to accommodate Warriors regular season game! The talk should be about retraction into an 8 team, competitive competition with a good brand, where the contracts can be high enough to keep players leaving for Europe, Japan and the NRL. Talk of expansion to Hawaii, LA, Ulan Bator, the moon, is just delusional!
Hey there as an Aussie it always pains to see Aussie teams cut like the Force in 2017 and now the Rebels. I do understand that Aussie teams are not as competitive as the Kiwi teams but the Australian teams use a salary cap and the Kiwi teams do not. Which allows some teams to have 3 or 4 current All Blacks and high Talent up and coming players from around the world.
Another funny thing is the Fijian drua are part funded by the Australian government's "PacificAus Sports" program which allocates (aud)52 million to grow sports in the pacific.
(This is from the official government website.)
"Fiji Rugby thanked the Australian Government's PacificAus Sports program for providing seed funding for the club's inclusion in Super Rugby Pacific."
What NZR needs to do is fund a Tongan and a Samoan team. Not a joint team that's based in NZ. NZR could also put the winner of last year's NPC into the Super Rugby as a wildcard team.(or the highest ranked team that doesn't have a Super Rugby team) In 2023 the NPC winner was the Taranaki Bulls. NZ could then use Moana as a Māori and Pasifika team or rebrand.
So my 2025 team list would be
(Aust.)
1. Reds
2. Brumbies
3. Force
4. Waratahs
5. Rebels
(NZ)
6. Crusaders
7. Chiefs
8. Blues
9. Hurricanes
10. Highlanders
11. Moana
12. Taranaki Bulls
(Pacific)
13. Fiji Drua
14. Samoa
15. Tonga
As there is 15 teams you you have 3 conferences I'd you so pleased.
In regards to Argentina it seems you were unaware that there is another 'Super Rugby' competition mainly based in South America (but also have one USA Colorado team that was in MLR before.) The last 2 years the winning club is from Uruguay.
I also like the idea of a 5 round Champion's League style pay-off with say the top 4 Super Rugby Pacific teams and the winner of Super Rugby America, Major League Rugby, Japan League One (Top League)
Soft reset is needed
Super Rugby Pacific should be what the European Champions Cup is.
AU/NZ/JP participants
Bring in Japanese teams based on performance (this will increase broadcast revenue)
Split AU & NZ into separate leagues. Top 4 in each qualify for Super Rugby
NZ should take the Drua and Pasifika
AU need to keep the Rebels and bring in an Adelaide franchise. Along with one other (nsw or qld)
7 teams ea. 12 rounds. Super rugby played parallel to domestic leagues
@wlk2408 would love some of that saudi money to come to Rugby I won't lie!
Good idea. Although I don't see japan ditching their 3 tier domestic competitions. A domestic setup AU & NZ can only dream of.
All fans agree that change is needed
Most of Rugby franchises unfortunately are short sighted.
Little care is taken into growing the game, making it more competitive instead franchises look to link with other big franchises with the hope it will become a success.
We need a collaboration of highly experienced Rugby individuals and highly experienced business men, but only a businessman who wants the game to grow and flourish.
Most club Rugby is in a frail state unless it’s in France, of the US MLR sells itself to another league it will be the worst thing they could do, let the domestic league in the US build it’s own rivalry within its own nation rather than sell your soul to a league which is short sighted and a dreadful look for Rugby
How was Super Rugby Americas fit into all this? Especially with the expansion talk coming back?
I'd love the super rugby Americas to become a sort of second tier to sr, I'd argue the Argentinian teams would be competitive in some years and the Chilean, Uruguayan and Paraguayan wouldn't be far off
Easiest format would be champions league format, 4 groups with 6 teams per group and only play teams in your group, top two of four groups= 8 teams enter the quarter finals, semifinals and final
Australian Rugbys administration has had their so far up their arse it’s not even Funny. They don’t even realise that no one has any interest or relatability. A talent relied on a bunch of private schools simply goes against the Aussie ethos. Need to connect with the working class.
the working class have NRL, AFL and soccer. I really don’t see where there is a gap for Super Rugby to fit into at this point.
@@JonB1995 exactly, the things they think they have a shot of any relevance.
The fall of super rugby rests soley on the shoulders of New Zealand and their greed
I don't care, I need the Jaguares back like nothing else in the world
A new CEO is a positive step, but coming from the A-League doesn’t bode well. As someone who’s a passionate A-League supporter, I can tell you now that there has been significant mistakes with that organization since it split off from Football Australia.
Exactly my first thoughts! I follow League, A-Liga and Union (though that has dropped off lately, and become more of a long mourning phase for a friend in palliative care), and hearing that the great hope of Super Rugby is an A League exec is just…. Nothing has been learned at all from the last decade and a half of gross mismanagement, has it?
Super Rugby in Southern Hemisphere should include South Africa, Australia, New Zealand & Argentina.
South Africa don't want it. They play in Europe and that's better for them.
The people who ran the comp were Incompetant. There was Zero interest in Australia because Union was dying with too many Aussie teams with no junior or supporter base. It is now effectively dead in Australia.
With Melbourne rebels they had compete with AFL, the minor afl codes and Melbourne Storm with Melbourne vixens netball
It’s an interesting one really, South America (and Colorado) has Super Rugby Americas and MLR is actually quite popular in the west coast market. The Top league in Japan is incredibly strong these days so a return to Japan will not be on my cards. SA are competing in Europe but few in Europe are happy about it because A. They’re not European and B. They’re taking up places in European competitions that could’ve been used for other European teams like those in the Europe Super Cup. I feel SA outside of the springboks are struggling due to attendances and money flow making all the big players leave for European clubs or Japan which has exacerbated the problem in SA. Super Rugby will survive but Australia is in turmoil and New Zealand continues to dominate.
the stormers have the highest average attendence in the urc and one of the highest in champions cup and higher than any super rugby team wdym?
@@subbie5498 I never said they are not popular but it’s known all around Europe that the South African teams struggle financially compared to some of the other unions within Europe but that might more be down to the financial state of SA rather than any sporting issue. I have mates who play in the URC and they hate the fact they have to travel down to SA for domestic matches. It’s a lot of strain on the clubs and players who are already struggling either financially or with fatigue.
@@Jimbo-wx9pu the bulls and the sharks are rich though not stormers and lions bankrupt
Its quite clear now with the Rebels folding and Super Rugby struggling with money. Super Rugby cant afford to be Super any more. Super Rugby doesn't need to expand any further it actually needs to just focus on growing the game where it is. Adding a new team would be absoutley stupid as people already care so little for the existing teams, how would people be expected to care for an completely new franchise or a old team being introduced
I don’t get this focus on expansion - especially in Australia, there’s plenty of other high quality sport, and winning teams in domestic competitions for people to enjoy locally. People like winners. Just having more awful teams damages the brand of a sport as a whole, and lowers standards. Focusing on having consistently competitive Queensland and NSW teams along with the Brumbies should have been RAs focus. Resources should have been put into finding new, inventive ways to boost and monetise their brands instead of wasting resources on no-hoper expansion teams.
Jaguares are planned for a return in 2026 according to recent news
good format wuld have been round robin within confrences with a 3 game playoff system 4 teams tht made it out of confrence [top2]
Geography, money and TV markets just don't add up.
The only real money is in Test rugby, but you have to have the players playing at a high enough level between tests for them to be credible. It's just a case of managing the losses from super rugby.
The aru need to invest in making Brisbane and Sydney rugby professional. A 12 team promotion and relegation “national” competition between the two cities clubs . All clubs be at least semi pro and the aru or tv to subsidise the national comp . 8 team semis All teams that miss finals are relegated for both grand finalists in Sydney and Brisbane comps. With this there will be way more pathways young talent that won’t be lost to league or the game altogether
They should now that they've got new people in charge even though ex-Tahs players in there are so-so.
Super Rugby needs a total reset.The format needed going forward is 8 teams, the 5 NZ franchises and 3 Australian, Queensland, NSW, ACT. Every team plays twice 14 Games, Top 4 Finals format!!
Great video
Super 12 was the best by far.they shouldve made it similar to say the football leagues,super 12(epl,laliga,seria a) and a seperate competition with all the other sides in there,end of the season 3 teams get relegated from super 12 and 3 teams promoted from the other competition.
Since super rugby started Australia Wallabies rugby union tame been bad. When the Wallabies was good Australia one the union codes in world but now local competition in world
It will not happen ... DSTV in South Africa are so greedy ... the subs are so hi they are losing a lot of subscribers ... I have dumped them ... rather watch the games later in RUclips
Dstv is not bad for 899 zar pm. @36 pounds UK. But here to watch rugby it's 30 pounds for tnt sport on discover for all champions cup rugby and ufc. Then international matches are on sky another 40 pounds and the urc is on viaplay or premier sports at 15 pounds a month. World has gone mad !!!
AB dominance in Rugby is the result of their physical and mental approach to the contact area. You have to dominate your opponent. Impose your physicality on them. AB dominance in Rugby is second to none. Razor will ressurect this legendary AB tradition. Its been missing a while. Super Rugby player's will learn history.
Are you going to do a video on Major League Rugby?
Coming next week.
@@thetouchback Excellent, they really need the exposure.
It failed because Australia Failed the Southern States have AFL and the Northern states NRL where all the Rugby Talent is . Rugby Union is dead and finished in Australia so NZ will have to carry the banner
It's cute you think there aren't similar issues in NZ, as soon as a second NRL side hits NZ they are in a big decline
Mate. Imagine how dominant in Union Australia would be if the NRL talent went only there, dont even have to include the AFL blokes because if NRL and AFL didnt exist Australia would be the dominant rugby country on the planet undisputedly forever lol 8 world cups
@@jormundgandr88the Wahs are already getting way bigger crowds than the Blues in Auckland as well, so the decline has begun already surprisingly. NZ basketball numbers are way up on union as well it seems
@@CommissionerManu long mat it continue
@@CommissionerManu The blues largely have a different fan base than the Warriors so they are not necessarily in head to head competition however the Blues need to market themselves a lot better. The average Warriors supporter is quite different to the Blues supporters
SA leaving Super Rugby weakened NZ & AUS. I wonder what leaving SANZAAR will do. I guess we’ll see in the next two years because seemingly the Boks are definitely bouncing.
Afrikaners from South Africa needs to play for the Netherlands and Germany since they want to play in Europe. 🇳🇱🏉🇩🇪
It was about expansion of money,not Rugby,and the fans switched off
Exactly 100%
The problem has always been New Zealand is a victim of their own success, they win too many games. It's part of the reason why South Africa left, it's why Australian teams don't get people going to their games and it's why Super Rugby struggles to get other countries involved. Add to that the countries (when SA and Argentina were involved) were so far apart and it's a wonder SR has lasted as long. Tbh NZ rugby will always be strong even if they never played another international club game but the NZ clubs and players want the international money so they always strive to keep SR going.
So super rugby is suffering because.. NZ rugby is too strong. And this is why.. SA teams packed their bags and went to Europe?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@merlotonthego6412 Pretty much, they needed to start losing to the SA and Aussie teams to make them feel better, they tried with conferences to make it easier for them but it obviously wasn't enough.
I have been saying for 5 years now that they should just end super rugby. It can’t work & make money without South Africa.
It has just become NZ losing money and propping up Australian rugby and the Pacific Islands. NZ owes these other nations nothing.
Rugby Union will never be able to compete with the excitement and speed of Rugby League.
One problem is that only the Brumbies can compete with NZ teams.
Might be solved with the rebels gone and their players merging
It’d because 99% of fans, including yourselves and most the people in the comments, don’t understand sports. The sport itself isn’t relevant. It’s all about the teams, the rivalries and hype. Every sport is just hype. Instead of creating ridiculous franchises in Argentina and Japan, let alone Melbourne and Perth, they should have really focused on Queensland and New South Wales in the early days. Bring historic successful clubs from Brisbane and New South Wales in as the new teams. The biggest games in all of sports are cross-city rivalries. In football, people will say West Ham and millwally, 2 relative minnows of England trophy wise, are the biggest rivalry in England. It gets people talking and watching. A Sydney or Brisbane derby would have done loads more to get interest. It’s what makes the nrl and the state of origin so popular. To go to Melbourne and Perth instead of their heartlands was their biggest error
I think they should add a franchise based in Napier
I don't know why, but there is something about McLean Park that I enjoy.
Sooo the Hurricanes?😆
I agree but NZ Rugby won't want to pay for more players
get the jaguars back with maybe an extra Argentina team and maybe a peru team if they wanted to and the two japan teams so then u have two 7 team conferences
nz and aus can't afford that
That Peru shout is extremely random considering Uruguay, Chile, and even the Yacarés from Paraguay are far ahead of Peru
League is hurting your pool of players
I forgot Eddie Jones once coached the Stormers 😂
Eddie never coached The Stormers - he accepted an initial offer but then rescinded it and went to coach England. Its important to know what really goes on in life otherwise you're laughing at yourself with your emojis there.
@@bunnychowmuncher try to look up the definition of sarcasm when you get a chance
@@mohau Try to look up Bungler when you have a chance too.
That's not true. He never coached a game but was the Stormers coach, contract and all. This is why the RFU had to buy him out.
@thetouchback He did not coach a single game you knob. Give it up. You made an ass out of yourself and then tried to backpeddle.
They got greedy, should have stuck to 12 teams.
My rugby club the brumbies have the semi and could potentially win super rugby so Australian rugby may be on an up
🤣 lmao
lol so true.. and keeps getting smaller every year.. i think the next two teams leaving are moana and perth
Super Rugby went downhill, because of SA,got greedy, thought they were good enough for another team, Aus thinking along the same lines followed,so from the, successful Super 12 to the $#@? fess that followed,SA thinking,they were the Power changed the whole schedules, ref's home and away,and like their politicians,???ked everything up,we in NZ know why,
Because the Power SA thought they were, hardly won the comp,and that was a kick in the ball bags for them
But NZ knew, they,SA wanted to go North,same timezone etc,so off they went,and then started moaning,NZRFU, kicked them out, whatever,
Glad they left,now we can concentrate on helping our neighbours,the island's nation's,
Sad the Japanese never got a fair shake,blame SA for that as well,
Too many teams diluted the competition.And that's on both SA and Australia.You want to blame anyone,blame those two unions.
Ag please, NZ and Aus kicked SA because they wanted all the revenue for themselfs this while SA brought in the most money. Dont cry now you got wat you asked for
@@neilpieterse9614 rubbish.SA whined for yrs,threatening to go north if NZ/AUS didn't cave into their constant demands.And then used COVID to do exactly that.
But you keep telling yourself that it's all down to those nasty antipodeans.
Just another arrogant,pig ignorant saffer.
@@neilpieterse9614 NZ and Aus did nothing of the sort.You obviously have a short memory since the saffers spent their time in the comp constantly threatening to go north if they didn't get what they wanted.
And then used the COVID situation to do just that .That's reality,
But then,you lot are always good with the conspiracy theories.You need look no further than your hero Erasmus for confirmation of that.
How did SA teams dilute the competition? SA teams brought viewership, crowds and revenue that is dearly needed for all super rugby teams right now. The Rebels is the first victim for others to follow. Look at the success of the URC competition where SA teams are right now - the success of the URC and the demise of super rugby is no coincidence. NZ rugby needs SA rugby now more than ever.
@@merlotonthego6412 SA added teams,but you're right,I should have included the aussies as well.
The original comp was fine until both SA and oz pushed for more teams.
As for the demise of the NZ game,well,we.ve been told that would happen ever since the game went pro.And yet,we are still here....
Rugby has become boring. Pushover tries, the Ref saying advantage. All big turnoffs.
Super rugby drua team is doing well for fiji rugby wheres moana is a blues C team
Preferably the Super Rugby teams would be in a perfect world IMO:
🇦🇺
Reds
Brumbies
Waratahs
Force
🇦🇷
Jaguares
🇿🇦
Bulls
Stormers
Sharks
Cats/Lions
🇳🇿
Blues
Crusaders
Chiefs
Highlanders
Hurricanes
🇫🇯
Drua
🇼🇸🇹🇴
Moana Pasifika (although individual teams for both countries would be ideal).
But anyways RA flopping on not strengthening the grassroots overtaken by the NRL and not sticking with 3 or 4 teams to build on is a reflection of how pathetic the previous board was playing politics and being greedy. 💸
No saffas
yea like a 21-5 lead is good? hahaha bro doesn`t know rugby
What a load of BS!! Untruthful and misleading video. And the audacity to say SA teams weren't competitive. LOL
At the moment, Super rugby needs to just keep the status quo in terms of teams.
With the Rebels now going bankrupt i think its actually a good thing for the competition as now those players will be shared amongst the Aussie teams & make them stronger.
Also, from an NZ perspective, one less Aussie team is better as Australian teams aren't much of a drawcard here.
Sky tv (main broadcaster of rugby in NZ) have revealed that this year's Super has been the most watched competition in over two decades which is massive for the game here as a lot people, mainly people from competing sports were saying that the game was finished.
It definitely feels like a lot more people are talking rugby and anticipation for Razors first All Black squad is through the roof.
If there were to be another team added to go back to 12 it really needs to be another NZ team. No one here really wants a team from Argentina or SA anymore
New Zealand made their decision and then South Africa had to make their own that suited them…super rugby is crap now
super rugby is a sunken ship the franchise system or model is not good here in New Zealand its done its time
take it back to the provinces here in New Zealand professionalise the provinces term then into franchises
im a big supporter of grassroots rugby and domestic professional rugby or a domestic comp here in New Zealand
Argentina South Africa. Australia New Zealand rugby should have each focus on there own Domestic Rugby championships first like Argentina should have had there own Domestic rugby Championship professional comp we all know South Africa has there own the currie cup Australia need to have there own domestic rugby professional comp New Zealand has there NPC Bunnings rugby championship
then on to the actual Super Rugby Championship like the top 4 franchises club teams from Argetinas comp and the top 4 club franchise from South Africa currie cup the top 4 clubs or state sides from Australia's comp and the top four provinces sides from The New Zealand NPC Bunnings championship have them compete in a comp in actual Super Rugby Championship like a sixteen team comp four pools of 4 teams
format from there to quarters semis and grand final
this super rugby championship like the pool rounds like 1 pool group of 4 teams and games can be all played in Argentina a second pool
group of four teams all games can be played in South Africa a third pool group of 4 teams all its games can be played in Australia a fourth pool group of four teams can be played in New Zealand each of these 4 pool groups of four teams each contain 1 Argentina club side
1 South Africa side 1 Australia side 1 New Zealand side per pool these are just ideas