Something worth noting is that .75 caliber muskets were historically used by _numerous_ militaries, such as the Brown Bess or Land Pattern Muskets used by the British Army from 1722 to 1838, so it isn't like the idea that a weapon of greater than .50 caliber would be used by foot soldiers is some sci-fi invention.
@@doomguy9049 No, but I just wanted to point out that, yes, shoulder-fired weapons in higher than .50 caliber have been used _extensively_ throughout our history.
@@GoredonTheDestroyer the main difference is the propellant, smokeless powder creates much higher chamber pressure which allows higher velocity for the projectile, a brown bess will still wreck your day if it hits you but a .50 BMG will wreck the wall in front of you, you, the wall behind you and the car outside
@@MarcusVance You are correct and wrong at the same time. Bolter round sizes and grades can and do vary. Allow me to explain. Bolter rounds come in a variety of types and grades. Astartes are very much shooting redbull can-sized rounds, but their weapons are designed for Astartes in power armor, and vanilla mortals couldn't hope to wield them. A vanilla human would use a dramatically scaled down version of Astartes bolter rounds, such as a commisar's standard issue bolt pistol. Some types have added effects such as being laced with prometheum, but regardless of the kind of bolter, they are armor piercing rounds that are also propelled by a micro-thruster, and they explode inside whatever they're shot into.
A bolter is essentially a 12 gauge shotgun that fires mini rockets. The bore diameter of a cylinder bore 12ga is .73 so it is .02" smaller than the bolter but not by an ammount an untrained eye would notice. 12 gauge shells are also available in full length brass shells if one wants to pay a bit extra. Utilizing a shotgun shell as a primary source of propulsion to accelerate the mini rocket also overcomes the downfall of rocket propulsion that was found with the old rocket ball guns. Rocket ammunition has very little energy until it adequately accelerates. A point blank shot from a rocket ball pistol wouldn't break the skin on a human but a 12ga shotgun certainly will. Combining some technology from our Era with chemistry and metallurgy from future millenia results in humanity's defenders having quite the potent armament at their disposal.
Bolters are very interesting. Games Workshop clearly designed them just to look cool on the figurines but now we're trying to justify and explain their appearance and even work out how they function. A lot of people say the bolt's rocket ignites after leaving the barrel, which is consistent with modern 2-stage projectiles like RPGs, but that would make certain bolts incompatible with different bolters, of which there are many variations and barrel lengths. I like to think the barrels are actually very thick all the way through, as they must contain the pressure of the rocket motor igniting inside, as well as the initial kicker charge. Maybe this makes the kicker charge redundant, but perhaps it detonating could be the ignition source for the rockets. It would also explain the gun's huge bulk, as all the internal components are oversized to handle the pressure. Also having an overkill firing system is very in-keeping with 40k. Now we just need to work out how those magazines hold more than 10 rounds...
The rocket starting in the barrel would be such a minimal increase to the pressure on that barrel or to the recoil that it is almost nothing, gyrojets were/are literally described as feeling like shooting a toy gun because of the minimal recoil and the walls of the barrels aren't notably thick and were lighter than conventional firearms.
Astartes bolters are .997, standard bolters are .750. .950 JDJ is actually a sporting round in the US, and there's plenty of information about that available. More importantly, the rounds are also self-propelled with a starting charge, and (usually) HE.
They are .998. A US quarter is 0.995, so about that. 25mm. From some basic measurements from the only pic I could find, it's likely as long as .338 Lapua while the diameter of a quarter.
@@MarcusVance I know that we're rapidly approaching the realm of total over the top 40K silliness but I have a final question:what would the caliber of Vulcan Mega Bolt rounds be? The most common application of the Vulcan mega bolter is as a anti infantry weapon mounted on the on one of arms of the Empire's warhound class scout Titans,56 feet tall bipedal warmachines. I couldn't find any 1:1 scale illustrations of the rounds but considering the size of the warmachine that utilize the weapon it seems relatively reasonable to assume them to be very big.
Depending on the heavy bolter i heard someone say they can range in size from the equivalent of a midsized shotgun slug to a 40mm gernade launcher round sense heavy bolters apparently encompass a fairly wide range of large bolt weapons
We must not forget the heavy helping of Imperial propaganda we get from the books. "Fist sized bolts" always sounded cool. Until you realise that even a 8-10 foot tall space marine could probably only carry about, what 50 or 60 rounds, if that. Also shoutout to the guy who mentioned that human sized boltguns are smaller calliber.
I think another reason people think it's larger is because in videos by both GW and fans the round is obscenely large. I don't even think they know what the caliber actually looks like.
Fantastic, clear and to the point. I like comparing fantasy and sci-fi stuff to real world counterpoints. I think another thing that contributes to confusion is many look at the physical models and some heavy bolters have partially exposed ammunition. They mix up the heavy weapon with the regular. Either way I like seeing a close as possible example of what the round would be
I mean it roughly like an 11 guage shotgun slug in size if it's one solid piece. It's big but not insane but using a pistol grip and it being fully automatic I can see why people would say the recoil is unmanageable but that has more to do I think with the weapons configuration. As far as it being a gyro jet goes it really doesn't fallow any of the rules of a gyro jet So I think of it more as a shotgun slug with an explosive ammunition, that makes it the equivalent of lodging like a cherry bomb or m80 INTO a guy and watching it go off. It's not something I'd want to shoot one-handed but I could definitely see it's short overall length being really nice for close quarters ship combat.
There's alot of assumptions in this that you are presenting as fact here. The term bolt in the 40k is used much like we use bullet in the real world as a catch all term. The one you have pictured could be very well for a handgun bolter and a rifle bolt could have a case length two or three times that size. Not to mention higher pressures heavier projectiles or a necked case. So yes a loaded rifle bolter shell could very well be "redbull" sized. Dia is only one part of the equation. Also the bolter is a two stage projectile. Which is why bolters eject spent cases like a modern firearm. Which propels it down the barrel and activates the rocket propellant portion. So if that image doesn't include the parent case and only the self propellant and explosive warhead. The total length of the unfired round could be much bigger. Also while I doubt the actual artists did it deliberately besides to look cool it's probably
This is the official round (including the parent case) of the 0.75 caliber Godwyn pattern Astartes boltgun. If the games are anything to go by (and honestly they're a lot less prone to exaggeration than GW), then boltguns and bolt pistols fire the same rounds.
If a normal person fires a Bolter it shatters their arms bones. I don’t think it’s just barley bigger than the .500 Smith and Wesson or the .308. Plus gun calibres can be confusing. .50 AE is far smaller than the .50 BMG. .75 could mean a vast number of things. Also in your own little chart you can see that the .308 and .500 s&w are pretty similar sizes despite having a size difference of .192 (if we use your own logic). Gun calibres are pretty random and you can’t just make up that the .75 is that large. Also in the 41st millennium they could very well have edited our system of measurements making .75 be an extremely different size calibre than what we might imagine.
Take a look at the bolter round picture. We know that it's 0.75 inches across. That information gives use a scale to use, and is how I extrapolated the size. I didn't just guess. Also, there are two different sizes of bolter: human sized and Astartes sized. These bolters are *the exact same caliber according to every single source I can find." The difference is that Space Marine Bolters are made physically larger in order to accommodate for the larger, power armored hands of an Astartes. These are difficult for mortals to hold and fire. They don't shatter arm bones. That wouldn't make sense with them being the same caliber.
You are correct and wrong at the same time. Bolter round sizes and grades can and do vary. Allow me to explain. Bolter rounds come in a variety of types and grades. Astartes are very much shooting redbull can-sized rounds, but their weapons are designed for Astartes in power armor, and vanilla mortals couldn't hope to wield them. A vanilla human would use a dramatically scaled down version of Astartes bolter rounds, such as a commisar's standard issue bolt pistol. Some types have added effects such as being laced with prometheum, but regardless of the kind of bolter, they are armor piercing rounds that are also propelled by a micro-thruster, and they explode inside whatever they're shot into.
Nerf mega darts are closer to what would be needed also as it’s supposed to be a gyro jet round so it has to contain its own propellant as well as it’s explosive charge. It would give a good reason for the shape of the mags as well if the rounds needed to be longer you could quad stack (or more) in those massive bucket sized mags.
As a long time player of WK40K, the bolter round isn't that big, it's the ability to penetrate and its mass reactive qualities. And if we take an honest look at armor piercing rounds, they are more needle like and less blunt. We all know that bolter rounds mass reactive quality of exploding inside of its target us its main killing power, than we can say with a level of confidence that that are more slender in shape and not soda can shaped. Bolter rounds are known to peirce one target completely, not deform, still have enough power to travel and hit/peirce a second target, deform enough to explode inside that target and shower nearby other targets with innards and bone fragments! I think most people, my fellow WH40K players included think that the loud bang of the bolter means a larger projectile but it is the rocket motor firing that makes the bolter BANG!!!! That rocket motor is the punching power that gets that "you explode from the inside" killing power we all love so well, just my two cents☺
I thought the design of muzzle was for the purpose of ignoring the propellant of the bolt? The flash being that ignition? Barrel size irrelevant to bullet size?
That's the bullet / projectile size. But what about the powder charge and case along with the projectile, were going from bic lighter size to ... Small can of red bull?
I mean it also doesn't help that the actual sources say it's a rocket (cause it's self propelled and explodes) and so people assume it's large cause rocket
i am not knowledgeable about 40k but i did hear someone say that only the heavy bolter is the one who have red ball size bullets (Bricky from Adeptus Ridiculous) . i think talking about the heavy bolter will be a nice follow up video . Edit: i think the first time i heard someone say that bolter rounds are red ball size . is from the russian badger . i don't blame the guy because to be fair . 40k is bit confusing if you are not well versed in the setting .
Think you forgot to mention, not that it effects the size....but each round is essentially a mini rocket lol (which real version was made around the 50s i think?) and there are a good 20+ types of bolter rounds ;)
From what I've read on the wiki it is essentially a rocket assisted gyro stabilised APHE shell. It is 19mm so for the best comparison imagine a 20mm Orelikon autocannon except the rounds are ultra fast and ultra stabilised and ALSO are APHE which is a type that in our world doesn't exist as a 20mm I just love looking for power matches and comparisons between the 40k and real military hardware
I honestly don't see why you compare a Bolter round to the ammunition of any firearm at least not ones that are also classified as a destructive device The best comparison for a Bolter as far as firearms go would probably be a 20mm or anti tank rifle but only if it was made to be a darker green with no band (HE round) otherwise you would probably have to compare it to a weekend version of the 40 mm grenade however it would have the capability of going farther than a 50 caliber long range rifle However that's just going in with the most basic no modifications done by the Marines of any kind anything just the basic rifle that is mass-produced for the beginners and maybe up to private first class equivalent because the moment you get into something like for example the heavy Bolter you will not find one who's caliber is not larger than 1.00 in other words having more than one inch diameter for the projectile however they can get much larger there are some reportedly that fire projectiles that are 2.5" in diameter 2.50 caliber the same diameter as a Red Bull can and whereas the standard .75 caliber Bolter round is only going to be a few inches in diameter one of such girth as 2.50 caliber he's going to extend at least double that making it something comprable to a Red Bull can however something like this is not going to be common it will only be available to the absolute best of the best which makes it rare to hear of that's why you probably haven't heard of it and that is the problem with 40K if you don't stick to strictly the most basic standard of Space Marine there's going to probably be something that will say oh no everything is true because this somewhere from this long ago Also keep in mind when you showed the whole look at the size of that Barrel keep in mind that's not a human-sized person holding the what amounts to a mini RPG launcher known as a Bolter that is a Space Marine in his armor meaning he is standing at like 8 ft tall I mean even the standard Space Marine is well over a foot-and-a-half taller than your average male let alone the guys who would be considered the best of the best and would have access to things such as heavy Boulders that are firing rounds in excess of the 2.00 caliber range
Nerd shit like this is why I'm subbed to try is amazing channel. I always found the idea of redbull cans silly, as even as big as Marines are, a bolter magazine still has 30 rounds min in them. The muzzle break logic does make the most sense, even if GW can't be arsed to do the most basic research about them. Anyway, topic idea: do lasers have recoil? Should they?
You'd also have to find one that is 4in long, fires the entire shell not just the shot, is able to correct itself mid-flight, and is able to be pinpoint accurate at ranges in excess of one mile Oh and whatever is firing is basically an RPG
@Rurik Luci yes you are right. The point I failed at stating was that outside of the Giro jet, it's the closest comparison, and the shells are 3 1/2 inches. which is closest. anufe. for the average human moral mind. There is testing on self guided .50 bmg ammo, so in threay, it's possible and would not be out of the realm of possibility.
Not really accurate, bolter is a gyro jet style weapon that has a primary charge before the internal propellant boosts it to its final velocity. The bolter could also penitrate more than 2 inches of rolled homogeneous armor. No pistol is anywhere near powerful enough to do that.
The size is accurate. In all the research I've done through the Codices, rpg rulebooks, regular books, and lore videos by other creators, I've never come across that bolters can penetrate 2 inches of RHA. In fact, my own calculations of its speed and weight using information from numerous sources puts it on par with .454 Casull before the explosion.
@@MarcusVance I've done the FEA to prove it does go through more than 2 inches of RHA. It's maximum velocity is ~800m/s and its an ~2940 grain projectile if you assume WHA is the closest equivalent material. That's over 44k foot pounds of kinetic energy. A 500 SW has less than 3k foot pounds of kinetic energy. That's of with a full ap tip, a HE would be about half the mass. I have the video on my channel if you're curious.
From what I've seen (short range, no sonic boom), it's traveling at about 1,000 fps, and is about 900gr based on the core being heavier than Tungsten and the rest being lighter (the rocket fuel, diamantine tip, RDX equivalent, and the walls of the bullet). This'd have it hitting about as hard as a .454 Casull before the explosion. This round can go through light body armor, and is used for large game and bear protection. Easily enough to account for its performance in the bulk of lore.
@@MarcusVance then you have not read the emperors gift where a "normal" human did try to use a 0.75" bolter. If they did not heavily modify her and the gun it would have just caved her head in. You should expect that since even the biggest space marines show the gun has considerable recoil even for them. Since they are walking tanks its makes more sense that its no where near .454 casull and closer to a 20mm auto cannon. Its also much much more than 900gr, as I said before, I modeled it and calculated the mass based on the volume.
@Marcus Vance humans also regularly use the 0.75" bolter as a tripod mounted weapon, at that point are you absolutely sure it's more like a .454 casull and not a 20mm oerlikon?
The calibers for Astartes and human bolters are the same. Astartes guns are physically larger since they need to be operated by larger, power armored hands.
I think some people get the size from the actual models like the phobos bolters with the open magazines or the sisters bolter but if that size was right the magazine would only hold like 6 rounds.
This helps clear up and issues I always had when people said "Bolters fire rounds the size of grenades/redbull cans". If that was true, how would anything human sized and unarmoured survive more than 2 direct hits? Madness.
Yeah, by my calculations the round before the explosion hits about as hard a a .454 Casull. Hard enough to deal with most of what they deal with, but not THAT hard.
@@MarcusVance I googled .454 Casull and such rounds are used for bear protection! Holy crap! Considering the self-propelled nature of bolter rounds that'll gain kinetic energy as opposed to traditional bullets, meaning Bolters would hit even harder. With this in mind Bolters really should be one-shot-one-kill for anything about human sized if they're enough to stop a bear.
Guardsman couldn't survive even a single hit. Imagine being shot by a Bradley IFV. Although it fires 25mm instead of the astartes' 19mm, their rounds are rocket assisted, gyro stabilised AND APHE (Explodes after penetration) I don't know how durable their flak armour is, but even if it fails to penetrate the sheer kinetic force of this "autocannon round on steroids" plus it's detonation would be enough to shatter your bones and kill you
I've seen a few of your videos and I have to say, it's super frustrating. You get like 70-80% correct but then the rest wrong, and I'm not sure if it's misunderstanding, ignorance, or just so you can go "well actually" and feed different info to try and stand out. So first of all bolters come in .75 and 1.00 neither of which is the size of a red bull can, you got this correct, but you left out the larger size and then you started talking about muzzle brakes and flash suppressors to prove your point, which makes no sense. The bolter round isn't a bullet, it's a gyro jet. The hole is simply a gas vent as the round is self propelled with a rocket motor.
I understand how it seems very frustrating to you. Imagine my position where people constantly try and correct me with information that a simple Google search would show is wrong. Bolters come in .75. *Heavy* bolters come in .998 (not 1.00), and are a different firearm. The rounds still have a standard charge to get out the barrel, and then the rocket activates. Given that this round weighs at least two ounces (massive for a projectile), it would need to be a substantial charge that would still generate recoil and a flash. So including a way to manage that makes sense. Take a look at some pictures of muzzle brakes and flash hiders. You'll see that the end of the barrel is often wider than the projectile. Specifically the A2 if you want to see a good example of this.
@@MarcusVance tell you what buddy, you go find me a flash hider that is two giant holes, or a muzzle break that points both directions at once. You don't know what either of those things are for or how they do it.
You need to understand how self loading firearms work, which is gas compression, you need to look up the mk 19 grenade launcher to see how when you use a small charge you would only get lobbing trajectories if the rocket didn't fire in barrel, and how muzzle breaks are thin and slanted directionally to use vented gass to counteract recoil and flash hiders are also, thin and directional. Just, go look up the XM25.
I totally agree with you, but there is still the question of why are the magazines so large? Perhaps they are quads stacked instead of double stacked like most mags? It would allow them to have a large amount of ammunition while being a size that would be manageable. If the magazines were too small I could see how it would be hard to load with tiny magazines
Yup! Though there is *some* variation with the standard bolters, .75 is the "standard." You usually find irregular ones the further you get from the center.
The thing that makes bolsters dangerous isn’t their size but the explosive material inside which actually does vary so a commissar might have one that’s basically small incendiary meant for more armored enemies but not space marines but a space marine basically just has the equivalent to 20mm grenade launcher it can kill but it doesn’t due the damage as the fans suggest it’s just fragmentation
the thing is its not just peaple who descripe bolt rounds as drink can sized but olso more official sorces, i think the confusion whit just how much smallera .75 cal is than that is becouse they think of a 75mm round that would be about that big in diameter
It always bothered me when people said this and that Bolters are full auto. Full auto maybe, thx Astartes, I want default bolters that can go brrrrt now. But come on, RED BULL CAN SIZE? That’s what modern peoples call a mortar shell.
The full auto thing makes sense, but has always been weird to me. Bolter mags carry 20-30 rounds, and Space Marines have a standard loadout of 3 mags (so 60-90 rounds). If they need more, it gets airdropped or servitor delivered. Carrying only a few rounds makes sense, since it's a one shot kill against a lot of their enemies. But you'd need to be careful with full auto.
@@MarcusVanceI guess it could be explained away that Marines just have THAT much trigger control, or like in Astartes it’s a two-stage trigger, but I’ve always headcanon’d the Bolter as semi-auto with select-fire for the quad burst. But hey, Multiple variants exist, so full auto isn’t completely ruled out since GW can’t make a solid decision on anything except the price tag.
People tend to exaggerate the size of the bopter round because they want it to seem impossible to wield for any normal human despite the fact the technology exists and fell out of favor when it was introduced in the 60s
@@MarcusVance the biggest problem with the system is its initial momentum, the design needed another 10 years of strong development to improve its velocity at close range such as cased ammunition with a safe primary charge that doesn't mess with the fuel in the projectile then theoretically it would work better
Wait if those are muzzle breaks and not barrels, then the tigrus and phobos bolters are really weird design wise. For me, I think it's something similar to gundams case where the weapon caliber does not match what is shown in the material.
Too be fair it’s still a powerful round. If it was the size of a redbull can it would probably kill an Ork or Tyranid with a single shot. Diamond tipped rocket propelled grenades that drill into the target and fire automatically are extremely powerful in magnum round *or* redbull form.
I have some controversial opinions on 40k based on doing a massive amount of research, but I believe that bolter rounds hit about as hard as a middle-of-the-road .45-70 gvt round *before* the explosion. And the subsequent explosion is like a grenade that has a kill radius of ~27 inches.
@@MarcusVance Sounds about right, it’s not the “ONE SHOTS A TITAN SO POWERFUL SO STRONG ULTAMARINES RULE-“ people think it is. Still a very powerful round though, and a very good infantry weapon.
I liked your video, but, with only the faintest idea of 40k I feel like I have to ask where the .75 inch measurement came from? Is there a resource to site? Thanks for the video 🙂
If it was the size of a can, every space marine hit would flat line. Imagine it piercing the ceramite then exploding... ho yeah, i forgot they got plot armor too.
Nah, do you think humanity would abandon the mostly safe hyper drive, which was invented in the year 2200, for the "each use has a risk of killing all of us" Warp-Drive, whose invention only came to be in the year 18k? Plus, the Hyper-Drive allowed them to go anywhere they wanted, the Warp-Drive has a range that's limited by the Astronomican and also, after the Horus Heresy, by the increasing number of Daemons.
Something worth noting is that .75 caliber muskets were historically used by _numerous_ militaries, such as the Brown Bess or Land Pattern Muskets used by the British Army from 1722 to 1838, so it isn't like the idea that a weapon of greater than .50 caliber would be used by foot soldiers is some sci-fi invention.
Thank you for pointing this out
There is russian special forces 20mm shotgun, not sure if it is in use still, but another more modern example
Unless we know the muzzle velocity of the projectiles we can't really make an accurate comparison of them tbh
@@doomguy9049 No, but I just wanted to point out that, yes, shoulder-fired weapons in higher than .50 caliber have been used _extensively_ throughout our history.
@@GoredonTheDestroyer the main difference is the propellant, smokeless powder creates much higher chamber pressure which allows higher velocity for the projectile, a brown bess will still wreck your day if it hits you but a .50 BMG will wreck the wall in front of you, you, the wall behind you and the car outside
I liked your comments about the bolter probably having a muzzle brake or flash suppressor.
I didn't want to just say all those people are wrong. Wanted to say I can understand how they are.
@@MarcusVance You are correct and wrong at the same time. Bolter round sizes and grades can and do vary. Allow me to explain.
Bolter rounds come in a variety of types and grades. Astartes are very much shooting redbull can-sized rounds, but their weapons are designed for Astartes in power armor, and vanilla mortals couldn't hope to wield them. A vanilla human would use a dramatically scaled down version of Astartes bolter rounds, such as a commisar's standard issue bolt pistol. Some types have added effects such as being laced with prometheum, but regardless of the kind of bolter, they are armor piercing rounds that are also propelled by a micro-thruster, and they explode inside whatever they're shot into.
A bolter is essentially a 12 gauge shotgun that fires mini rockets. The bore diameter of a cylinder bore 12ga is .73 so it is .02" smaller than the bolter but not by an ammount an untrained eye would notice. 12 gauge shells are also available in full length brass shells if one wants to pay a bit extra. Utilizing a shotgun shell as a primary source of propulsion to accelerate the mini rocket also overcomes the downfall of rocket propulsion that was found with the old rocket ball guns. Rocket ammunition has very little energy until it adequately accelerates. A point blank shot from a rocket ball pistol wouldn't break the skin on a human but a 12ga shotgun certainly will. Combining some technology from our Era with chemistry and metallurgy from future millenia results in humanity's defenders having quite the potent armament at their disposal.
Bolters are very interesting. Games Workshop clearly designed them just to look cool on the figurines but now we're trying to justify and explain their appearance and even work out how they function. A lot of people say the bolt's rocket ignites after leaving the barrel, which is consistent with modern 2-stage projectiles like RPGs, but that would make certain bolts incompatible with different bolters, of which there are many variations and barrel lengths. I like to think the barrels are actually very thick all the way through, as they must contain the pressure of the rocket motor igniting inside, as well as the initial kicker charge. Maybe this makes the kicker charge redundant, but perhaps it detonating could be the ignition source for the rockets. It would also explain the gun's huge bulk, as all the internal components are oversized to handle the pressure. Also having an overkill firing system is very in-keeping with 40k. Now we just need to work out how those magazines hold more than 10 rounds...
This comment has more research, consideration and logic then this video.
The rocket starting in the barrel would be such a minimal increase to the pressure on that barrel or to the recoil that it is almost nothing, gyrojets were/are literally described as feeling like shooting a toy gun because of the minimal recoil and the walls of the barrels aren't notably thick and were lighter than conventional firearms.
I blame bagur for starting that *myth* of bolters shooting red bull cans
So you are telling me that Marcus has a .500 revolver? If yes. This man takes "parry this you casual" to a whole be level.
I used to. There was a time when I was a big fan of ridiculously large calibers. Owned two elephant guns, too (.375 H&H Magnum and .458 Win Mag).
Astartes bolters are .997, standard bolters are .750. .950 JDJ is actually a sporting round in the US, and there's plenty of information about that available. More importantly, the rounds are also self-propelled with a starting charge, and (usually) HE.
The picture in the video is specifically for a Godwyn pattern Astartes boltgun. .75 cal.
And it includes the casing.
Fair enough
@@SineWaveMood
You might be thinking of a heavy bolter. Or maybe one of the new bolt rifles, don't know what they're supposed to shoot now.
The picture of the blue space marine with a red helmet seems to be holding a bolt rifle, not a bolter. I don’t know if these are chambered differently
How about heavy bolt rounds?
They are described as being the size of a fist so what caliber would that be?🤔
*B i g*
They are .998. A US quarter is 0.995, so about that. 25mm.
From some basic measurements from the only pic I could find, it's likely as long as .338 Lapua while the diameter of a quarter.
@@MarcusVance I know that we're rapidly approaching the realm of total over the top 40K silliness but I have a final question:what would the caliber of Vulcan Mega Bolt rounds be?
The most common application of the Vulcan mega bolter is as a anti infantry weapon mounted on the on one of arms of the Empire's warhound class scout Titans,56 feet tall bipedal warmachines.
I couldn't find any 1:1 scale illustrations of the rounds but considering the size of the warmachine that utilize the weapon it seems relatively reasonable to assume them to be very big.
Depending on the heavy bolter i heard someone say they can range in size from the equivalent of a midsized shotgun slug to a 40mm gernade launcher round sense heavy bolters apparently encompass a fairly wide range of large bolt weapons
We must not forget the heavy helping of Imperial propaganda we get from the books.
"Fist sized bolts" always sounded cool. Until you realise that even a 8-10 foot tall space marine could probably only carry about, what 50 or 60 rounds, if that.
Also shoutout to the guy who mentioned that human sized boltguns are smaller calliber.
It being a muzzle break would make sense
Also ammo measurements are goofy in a sense
They are pretty goofy.
I think another reason people think it's larger is because in videos by both GW and fans the round is obscenely large. I don't even think they know what the caliber actually looks like.
Ok dont know if you've made a video on this yet but are chainswords actually viable?
not to discourage a video from happening but there is a video by Shadiversity talking and analyzing about the chainsword
*VERY MUCH*
He has made one
Viable weapons not swords. But technically they aren't even used as swords most of the time so there's also that.
Not with modern analogue tech, but 40k has a lot of advanced tech to compensate flaws of design
My grandpa has a 16 gauge with one of those on it. It's like shooting a louder .22
I believe that that might be something else. Muzzle brakes and flash hiders tend to not reduce sound.
@@MarcusVance I think he meant in the amount of recoil the shotgun has. Larger gauge shotguns tend to have a lot of kick
Interesting. I'll ask him next time I see him 🍻
@@dr.insanity9087 yup lol
Fantastic, clear and to the point.
I like comparing fantasy and sci-fi stuff to real world counterpoints.
I think another thing that contributes to confusion is many look at the physical models and some heavy bolters have partially exposed ammunition.
They mix up the heavy weapon with the regular.
Either way I like seeing a close as possible example of what the round would be
i think the main source of confusion comes from space marine 1
@@KT-pv3kl I think it was during when you get the bolter and then game would explain what the bolter is and what the bolter fires
The closest real life equivalent is the Neopup paw 20 ,a 20mm grenade launcher
Love the vid, but I have one question..
How much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
If she held a saw in her little paw, then a woodchuck could chuck wood.
@@MarcusVance Thank you for your attempt. Have a good day
Well a woodchuck could chuck as much wood as a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
big enough for most problems.
I mean it roughly like an 11 guage shotgun slug in size if it's one solid piece. It's big but not insane but using a pistol grip and it being fully automatic I can see why people would say the recoil is unmanageable but that has more to do I think with the weapons configuration. As far as it being a gyro jet goes it really doesn't fallow any of the rules of a gyro jet So I think of it more as a shotgun slug with an explosive ammunition, that makes it the equivalent of lodging like a cherry bomb or m80 INTO a guy and watching it go off. It's not something I'd want to shoot one-handed but I could definitely see it's short overall length being really nice for close quarters ship combat.
Who would win between the emporer of 40k in his prime or doom guy
In my headcanon, they're alternate universe versions of each other.
That's is beautifully said that it
@@KT-pv3kl you mean paradox billiards fourth dimensional hypercube chess strip poker?
There's alot of assumptions in this that you are presenting as fact here. The term bolt in the 40k is used much like we use bullet in the real world as a catch all term. The one you have pictured could be very well for a handgun bolter and a rifle bolt could have a case length two or three times that size. Not to mention higher pressures heavier projectiles or a necked case. So yes a loaded rifle bolter shell could very well be "redbull" sized. Dia is only one part of the equation.
Also the bolter is a two stage projectile. Which is why bolters eject spent cases like a modern firearm. Which propels it down the barrel and activates the rocket propellant portion. So if that image doesn't include the parent case and only the self propellant and explosive warhead. The total length of the unfired round could be much bigger.
Also while I doubt the actual artists did it deliberately besides to look cool it's probably
This is the official round (including the parent case) of the 0.75 caliber Godwyn pattern Astartes boltgun.
If the games are anything to go by (and honestly they're a lot less prone to exaggeration than GW), then boltguns and bolt pistols fire the same rounds.
If a normal person fires a Bolter it shatters their arms bones. I don’t think it’s just barley bigger than the .500 Smith and Wesson or the .308.
Plus gun calibres can be confusing. .50 AE is far smaller than the .50 BMG. .75 could mean a vast number of things. Also in your own little chart you can see that the .308 and .500 s&w are pretty similar sizes despite having a size difference of .192 (if we use your own logic). Gun calibres are pretty random and you can’t just make up that the .75 is that large.
Also in the 41st millennium they could very well have edited our system of measurements making .75 be an extremely different size calibre than what we might imagine.
Take a look at the bolter round picture.
We know that it's 0.75 inches across. That information gives use a scale to use, and is how I extrapolated the size.
I didn't just guess.
Also, there are two different sizes of bolter: human sized and Astartes sized. These bolters are *the exact same caliber according to every single source I can find."
The difference is that Space Marine Bolters are made physically larger in order to accommodate for the larger, power armored hands of an Astartes.
These are difficult for mortals to hold and fire. They don't shatter arm bones. That wouldn't make sense with them being the same caliber.
You are correct and wrong at the same time. Bolter round sizes and grades can and do vary. Allow me to explain.
Bolter rounds come in a variety of types and grades. Astartes are very much shooting redbull can-sized rounds, but their weapons are designed for Astartes in power armor, and vanilla mortals couldn't hope to wield them. A vanilla human would use a dramatically scaled down version of Astartes bolter rounds, such as a commisar's standard issue bolt pistol. Some types have added effects such as being laced with prometheum, but regardless of the kind of bolter, they are armor piercing rounds that are also propelled by a micro-thruster, and they explode inside whatever they're shot into.
Nerf mega darts are closer to what would be needed also as it’s supposed to be a gyro jet round so it has to contain its own propellant as well as it’s explosive charge. It would give a good reason for the shape of the mags as well if the rounds needed to be longer you could quad stack (or more) in those massive bucket sized mags.
what is a muzzle brake?
You should do metal gear rising revengeance and devil may cry weapons
As a long time player of WK40K, the bolter round isn't that big, it's the ability to penetrate and its mass reactive qualities. And if we take an honest look at armor piercing rounds, they are more needle like and less blunt. We all know that bolter rounds mass reactive quality of exploding inside of its target us its main killing power, than we can say with a level of confidence that that are more slender in shape and not soda can shaped. Bolter rounds are known to peirce one target completely, not deform, still have enough power to travel and hit/peirce a second target, deform enough to explode inside that target and shower nearby other targets with innards and bone fragments! I think most people, my fellow WH40K players included think that the loud bang of the bolter means a larger projectile but it is the rocket motor firing that makes the bolter BANG!!!! That rocket motor is the punching power that gets that "you explode from the inside" killing power we all love so well, just my two cents☺
I thought the design of muzzle was for the purpose of ignoring the propellant of the bolt? The flash being that ignition? Barrel size irrelevant to bullet size?
That's the bullet / projectile size. But what about the powder charge and case along with the projectile, were going from bic lighter size to ... Small can of red bull?
That picture of the bolter round includes the case and powder charge.
@@MarcusVance ah, sweet, was hard to tell on phone (switched to pc now).
I mean it also doesn't help that the actual sources say it's a rocket (cause it's self propelled and explodes) and so people assume it's large cause rocket
Yup
Okay but I want to know the actual consequences of a bullet that's the size of a redbull can
That'd be about 66x157mm.
The round fired by the main canon of a Sherman tank was 75x350.
@@MarcusVance So, what I'm hearing is that whoever is shot is *very* dead. Thanks for the neat info about weapons both fictional and real btw!
i am not knowledgeable about 40k but i did hear someone say that only the heavy bolter is the one who have red ball size bullets (Bricky from Adeptus Ridiculous) . i think talking about the heavy bolter will be a nice follow up video .
Edit: i think the first time i heard someone say that bolter rounds are red ball size . is from the russian badger . i don't blame the guy because to be fair . 40k is bit confusing if you are not well versed in the setting .
Think you forgot to mention, not that it effects the size....but each round is essentially a mini rocket lol (which real version was made around the 50s i think?) and there are a good 20+ types of bolter rounds ;)
From what I've read on the wiki it is essentially a rocket assisted gyro stabilised APHE shell. It is 19mm so for the best comparison imagine a 20mm Orelikon autocannon except the rounds are ultra fast and ultra stabilised and ALSO are APHE which is a type that in our world doesn't exist as a 20mm
I just love looking for power matches and comparisons between the 40k and real military hardware
I am coming again to ask you to please talk about the custodians.
I honestly don't see why you compare a Bolter round to the ammunition of any firearm at least not ones that are also classified as a destructive device
The best comparison for a Bolter as far as firearms go would probably be a 20mm or anti tank rifle but only if it was made to be a darker green with no band (HE round) otherwise you would probably have to compare it to a weekend version of the 40 mm grenade however it would have the capability of going farther than a 50 caliber long range rifle
However that's just going in with the most basic no modifications done by the Marines of any kind anything just the basic rifle that is mass-produced for the beginners and maybe up to private first class equivalent because the moment you get into something like for example the heavy Bolter you will not find one who's caliber is not larger than 1.00 in other words having more than one inch diameter for the projectile however they can get much larger there are some reportedly that fire projectiles that are 2.5" in diameter 2.50 caliber the same diameter as a Red Bull can and whereas the standard .75 caliber Bolter round is only going to be a few inches in diameter one of such girth as 2.50 caliber he's going to extend at least double that making it something comprable to a Red Bull can however something like this is not going to be common it will only be available to the absolute best of the best which makes it rare to hear of that's why you probably haven't heard of it and that is the problem with 40K if you don't stick to strictly the most basic standard of Space Marine there's going to probably be something that will say oh no everything is true because this somewhere from this long ago
Also keep in mind when you showed the whole look at the size of that Barrel keep in mind that's not a human-sized person holding the what amounts to a mini RPG launcher known as a Bolter that is a Space Marine in his armor meaning he is standing at like 8 ft tall I mean even the standard Space Marine is well over a foot-and-a-half taller than your average male let alone the guys who would be considered the best of the best and would have access to things such as heavy Boulders that are firing rounds in excess of the 2.00 caliber range
You said a number of incorrect and just plain confusing things. I'm not even sure how to approach this.
0.75 inches is several inches in diameter?
Always wondered about that like how would you fit that many ammo on a bolter if they're that big
You could have just said that they are actually 10 gauge rounds
This was nice, short and thorough. Keep it up bro!
Thanks!
Can u do something about titanfall and titanfall2?
Sure. I'm planning on something involving pilots in general next month.
Nerd shit like this is why I'm subbed to try is amazing channel. I always found the idea of redbull cans silly, as even as big as Marines are, a bolter magazine still has 30 rounds min in them. The muzzle break logic does make the most sense, even if GW can't be arsed to do the most basic research about them.
Anyway, topic idea: do lasers have recoil? Should they?
So I just wanted to point out that you can own a real life bolter it's called a 10 gauge shotgun. ( - the rocket propulsion at this point in time)
You'd also have to find one that is 4in long, fires the entire shell not just the shot, is able to correct itself mid-flight, and is able to be pinpoint accurate at ranges in excess of one mile
Oh and whatever is firing is basically an RPG
@Rurik Luci yes you are right. The point I failed at stating was that outside of the Giro jet, it's the closest comparison, and the shells are 3 1/2 inches. which is closest. anufe. for the average human moral mind. There is testing on self guided .50 bmg ammo, so in threay, it's possible and would not be out of the realm of possibility.
Great video, you have gained a subscriber.
seen the .45-70 Gov round and now I have to play Fallout NV
Not really accurate, bolter is a gyro jet style weapon that has a primary charge before the internal propellant boosts it to its final velocity. The bolter could also penitrate more than 2 inches of rolled homogeneous armor. No pistol is anywhere near powerful enough to do that.
The size is accurate.
In all the research I've done through the Codices, rpg rulebooks, regular books, and lore videos by other creators, I've never come across that bolters can penetrate 2 inches of RHA.
In fact, my own calculations of its speed and weight using information from numerous sources puts it on par with .454 Casull before the explosion.
@@MarcusVance I've done the FEA to prove it does go through more than 2 inches of RHA. It's maximum velocity is ~800m/s and its an ~2940 grain projectile if you assume WHA is the closest equivalent material. That's over 44k foot pounds of kinetic energy. A 500 SW has less than 3k foot pounds of kinetic energy. That's of with a full ap tip, a HE would be about half the mass. I have the video on my channel if you're curious.
From what I've seen (short range, no sonic boom), it's traveling at about 1,000 fps, and is about 900gr based on the core being heavier than Tungsten and the rest being lighter (the rocket fuel, diamantine tip, RDX equivalent, and the walls of the bullet).
This'd have it hitting about as hard as a .454 Casull before the explosion. This round can go through light body armor, and is used for large game and bear protection.
Easily enough to account for its performance in the bulk of lore.
@@MarcusVance then you have not read the emperors gift where a "normal" human did try to use a 0.75" bolter. If they did not heavily modify her and the gun it would have just caved her head in. You should expect that since even the biggest space marines show the gun has considerable recoil even for them. Since they are walking tanks its makes more sense that its no where near .454 casull and closer to a 20mm auto cannon. Its also much much more than 900gr, as I said before, I modeled it and calculated the mass based on the volume.
@Marcus Vance humans also regularly use the 0.75" bolter as a tripod mounted weapon, at that point are you absolutely sure it's more like a .454 casull and not a 20mm oerlikon?
Caliber measurements change in the far future, it's 0.75 of a meter. 😅
No fan say's they fire redbull cans ffs
Good English work on your grammar
So it's roughly the size of a 12 gauge slug 🤔
You are doing good work. I can hear buttermilk bob screaming. Did you ever think doing video with comissar gamza? That could be god tier video.
Sir please do a review of hollow knight weapons.
Please do more halo weapon videos
Planning on a video comparing Halo plasma to 40k plasma.
@@MarcusVance let's gooo
I know that there were different sized bolters for space marines and standard infantry but were they all .75cal?
The calibers for Astartes and human bolters are the same. Astartes guns are physically larger since they need to be operated by larger, power armored hands.
Thanks man, exactly the answer I needed
I think some people get the size from the actual models like the phobos bolters with the open magazines or the sisters bolter but if that size was right the magazine would only hold like 6 rounds.
This helps clear up and issues I always had when people said "Bolters fire rounds the size of grenades/redbull cans". If that was true, how would anything human sized and unarmoured survive more than 2 direct hits? Madness.
Yeah, by my calculations the round before the explosion hits about as hard a a .454 Casull.
Hard enough to deal with most of what they deal with, but not THAT hard.
@@MarcusVance I googled .454 Casull and such rounds are used for bear protection! Holy crap!
Considering the self-propelled nature of bolter rounds that'll gain kinetic energy as opposed to traditional bullets, meaning Bolters would hit even harder.
With this in mind Bolters really should be one-shot-one-kill for anything about human sized if they're enough to stop a bear.
They are quite devistating against un/lightly armored opponents.
Guardsman couldn't survive even a single hit. Imagine being shot by a Bradley IFV. Although it fires 25mm instead of the astartes' 19mm, their rounds are rocket assisted, gyro stabilised AND APHE (Explodes after penetration)
I don't know how durable their flak armour is, but even if it fails to penetrate the sheer kinetic force of this "autocannon round on steroids" plus it's detonation would be enough to shatter your bones and kill you
I've seen a few of your videos and I have to say, it's super frustrating. You get like 70-80% correct but then the rest wrong, and I'm not sure if it's misunderstanding, ignorance, or just so you can go "well actually" and feed different info to try and stand out. So first of all bolters come in .75 and 1.00 neither of which is the size of a red bull can, you got this correct, but you left out the larger size and then you started talking about muzzle brakes and flash suppressors to prove your point, which makes no sense. The bolter round isn't a bullet, it's a gyro jet. The hole is simply a gas vent as the round is self propelled with a rocket motor.
I understand how it seems very frustrating to you. Imagine my position where people constantly try and correct me with information that a simple Google search would show is wrong.
Bolters come in .75.
*Heavy* bolters come in .998 (not 1.00), and are a different firearm.
The rounds still have a standard charge to get out the barrel, and then the rocket activates. Given that this round weighs at least two ounces (massive for a projectile), it would need to be a substantial charge that would still generate recoil and a flash.
So including a way to manage that makes sense.
Take a look at some pictures of muzzle brakes and flash hiders. You'll see that the end of the barrel is often wider than the projectile. Specifically the A2 if you want to see a good example of this.
@@MarcusVance tell you what buddy, you go find me a flash hider that is two giant holes, or a muzzle break that points both directions at once. You don't know what either of those things are for or how they do it.
You need to understand how self loading firearms work, which is gas compression, you need to look up the mk 19 grenade launcher to see how when you use a small charge you would only get lobbing trajectories if the rocket didn't fire in barrel, and how muzzle breaks are thin and slanted directionally to use vented gass to counteract recoil and flash hiders are also, thin and directional. Just, go look up the XM25.
I totally agree with you, but there is still the question of why are the magazines so large? Perhaps they are quads stacked instead of double stacked like most mags? It would allow them to have a large amount of ammunition while being a size that would be manageable. If the magazines were too small I could see how it would be hard to load with tiny magazines
From what I've seen, the magazines only hold 20 rounds.
@@MarcusVance really? Huh. Perhaps the bullet is small but the casing is massive and holds a ton of propellant? Idk what else could explain it
I’ve also seen it described as .998 though I might be misreading
Those are heavy bolters.
There is some variation with regular bolters, though. But .75 cal is "the standard."
@@MarcusVance ah gotcha. So the average bolt rifle is .75 and the heavy bolter/bolt rifle is .998
Very cool!
Yup!
Though there is *some* variation with the standard bolters, .75 is the "standard."
You usually find irregular ones the further you get from the center.
Oh
The thing that makes bolsters dangerous isn’t their size but the explosive material inside which actually does vary so a commissar might have one that’s basically small incendiary meant for more armored enemies but not space marines but a space marine basically just has the equivalent to 20mm grenade launcher it can kill but it doesn’t due the damage as the fans suggest it’s just fragmentation
the thing is its not just peaple who descripe bolt rounds as drink can sized but olso more official sorces, i think the confusion whit just how much smallera .75 cal is than that is becouse they think of a 75mm round that would be about that big in diameter
Isn't the halo round 50 action express ?
.50 AE is 12.7x33.
The Magnum round is 12.7x40
.500 S&W is 12.7x41.
It always bothered me when people said this and that Bolters are full auto.
Full auto maybe, thx Astartes, I want default bolters that can go brrrrt now.
But come on, RED BULL CAN SIZE?
That’s what modern peoples call a mortar shell.
The full auto thing makes sense, but has always been weird to me. Bolter mags carry 20-30 rounds, and Space Marines have a standard loadout of 3 mags (so 60-90 rounds). If they need more, it gets airdropped or servitor delivered.
Carrying only a few rounds makes sense, since it's a one shot kill against a lot of their enemies. But you'd need to be careful with full auto.
@@MarcusVanceI guess it could be explained away that Marines just have THAT much trigger control, or like in Astartes it’s a two-stage trigger, but I’ve always headcanon’d the Bolter as semi-auto with select-fire for the quad burst.
But hey, Multiple variants exist, so full auto isn’t completely ruled out since GW can’t make a solid decision on anything except the price tag.
People tend to exaggerate the size of the bopter round because they want it to seem impossible to wield for any normal human despite the fact the technology exists and fell out of favor when it was introduced in the 60s
I think that we *could* make gyrojets work today. But... There's not much need.
@@MarcusVance the biggest problem with the system is its initial momentum, the design needed another 10 years of strong development to improve its velocity at close range such as cased ammunition with a safe primary charge that doesn't mess with the fuel in the projectile then theoretically it would work better
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!
KNOWLEDGE FOR THE TESTAMENTS!!!
Wait if those are muzzle breaks and not barrels, then the tigrus and phobos bolters are really weird design wise. For me, I think it's something similar to gundams case where the weapon caliber does not match what is shown in the material.
This is pretty insightful but also pretty depressing.
The hype machines and wankers have been laid to waste
Too be fair it’s still a powerful round. If it was the size of a redbull can it would probably kill an Ork or Tyranid with a single shot. Diamond tipped rocket propelled grenades that drill into the target and fire automatically are extremely powerful in magnum round *or* redbull form.
I have some controversial opinions on 40k based on doing a massive amount of research, but I believe that bolter rounds hit about as hard as a middle-of-the-road .45-70 gvt round *before* the explosion. And the subsequent explosion is like a grenade that has a kill radius of ~27 inches.
@@MarcusVance Sounds about right, it’s not the “ONE SHOTS A TITAN SO POWERFUL SO STRONG ULTAMARINES RULE-“ people think it is. Still a very powerful round though, and a very good infantry weapon.
I liked your video, but, with only the faintest idea of 40k I feel like I have to ask where the .75 inch measurement came from? Is there a resource to site?
Thanks for the video 🙂
The wiki is a decent way to get broad information. Other sources get more specific.
warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Bolter
Russian badger created this myth I’m pretty sure
That's a flash suppressor on that AR barrel, not a muzzle brake. Specifically that's an M16A2 birdcage style flash suppressor
Yup.
If it was the size of a can, every space marine hit would flat line.
Imagine it piercing the ceramite then exploding... ho yeah, i forgot they got plot armor too.
I'm still convinced that Halo is a precursor to the society of 40k, and a new calendar was made in 40k to hide some shady shit.
Nah, do you think humanity would abandon the mostly safe hyper drive, which was invented in the year 2200, for the "each use has a risk of killing all of us" Warp-Drive, whose invention only came to be in the year 18k? Plus, the Hyper-Drive allowed them to go anywhere they wanted, the Warp-Drive has a range that's limited by the Astronomican and also, after the Horus Heresy, by the increasing number of Daemons.
@@danielm.595 willingly? no. but the dark age of tech may have lost some neat shit.
Ok it makes sense but Im still gonna imagine a rocket propelled redbull can that explodes on impact. Bc its more w40k