Heck yeah man. 40k content is great content. You ever watch any Luetin09? Great deep dives on lore and weapons and stuff. But I'd like to see your take on some of the more "GrimDark" aspects of 40k's weapons and equipment. Love your stuff, Marcus. Thanks for the good vids.
I think it's a good idea. Gives some context to what /type/ of point that you're trying to make with the video as a whole. A frame of reference for the question that you're trying to answer with the content of your research. Information and Data is great and all, but it usually needs to have some sort of context to be understood in the way the author is intending. Just as a scientific paper usually starts off with an Abstract before throwing charts at the reader. Though the music at the beginning was probably 2-3 times too loud, so I could barely hear your voice. Maybe drop the volume down a bit?
Yeah dude, I like your style and know next to nothing about wh40k, it’s never appealed to me, but I vibe with your videos. Like, are Halo, and StarCraft and Warcraft all rips/reimaginings of wh40k?
The games are canon, it’s just sometimes the representation of certain things aren’t canon accurate. Like how in the opening scene for Halo 4 Spartan 2s are dropping down onto earth when the covenant show up but they’re wearing Mk6 Gen1 mod instead of Mk4 Gen1 (or Mk5 Gen 1 I can’t remember which it is)
The biggest discrepancy is damage. In the games lightly armored Marines can tank plasma. In the books easy clap. And how much damage Spartans can take, which is a lot more than the games. They don't even start worrying about their metal armor being breached until .50 BMG AP rounds.
Well the MK6 was made available for Spartans in 2552, which was the closing year of the war, most likely this means that this happened during the battle of earth.
@@slyllamademon2652 Even so, it shouldn't be that style. It looks too off and it kinda shoved a new artstyle on it instead of progressing into one like 343 should've. In addition, 343 states that the reason Master chief's armor changed from 3 to 4 was because cortana used nanbots to upgrade it. in theroy, this should mean chief's H4 and 5 armor is wholly unquie to him and no other spartan has it.
@@MarcusVance Wait, since when are the Marines lightly armoured? They're not fully protected, but the armour they use is comprised of heavy - likely Titanium - armour plating and covers all the spots most likely to get hit. The main difference between marines and Spartans ability to tank plasma is the energy shielding, but besides that it's mentioned at least in the Cole Protocol that Mjolnir can sort of shrug off a plasma hit without significant damage. Since the majority of plasma bolts fired during the war would inflict 2nd to 3rd degree burns, it's not that out there for a Marine to take some fire, if not sustained fire, and survive.
@@Belle_End777 within the halo universe marine armour falls within the light to medium armour category, heavy being reserved for certain brute as well as Spartan armours.
The plasma guns themselves are different to one another, this is because whilst the blast of a space marine plasma pistol/gun shoots one large blast of plasma whereas halo covenant weapons fire constant streams of less concentrated plasma
you dont seem to know much about halo do you? both fire plasma in short pulses, like a small ball, the covenant do have at least one weapon that does fire a continuous beam, and thats the beam rifle, however, all other weapons fire pulses of plasma, similar to warhammer. the difference being that the covenant weapons do not have as much impact as 40k, but this could be due to the fact that most plasma weapons in 40k are twice the size or more of even the halo plasma launcher which was a rocket launcher type weapon that could fire up to four projectiles that could track the target and detonate after making contact. for the most part both fire short pulses of plasma energy, some packing more punch than others, but pound for pound, covenant wins because of how compact they are
@@realmofrandom3696 in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. Now forunner Material is a miricle however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle, fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hop the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, Mech Suits, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic
From what i've read about the lore in 40k plasma weaponry doesn't really explode that often, they can explode when used in a very fast succession without letting the weapon cool. It wouldn't make sense in-lore to give important personnel and vehicles weapons that unreliable considering the amount of fighting they do. The fact about them exploding so often is derived from the ingame rules were when overheating the gun it explodes on a roll of 1 on a d6, also meaning that it would never explode if you never overheated the gun. As for the power of the weapon, the wh plasmas are supposed to be used against heavy armored targets like transports, tanks and heavy infantry. Maybe rather than the temperature it's the projectile size that makes the difference, as a bigger slug would keep more heat during the travel time and deliver a bigger impact/surface of heat P.S: I forgot to add that overheating is an option ingame. You can overheat and get more damage at the cost of maybe exploding or fire normally without risk
When you reach degrees in excess of a few thousand Celsius, I don’t think the heat aspect even matters much. I’d take a reliable but “weaker” plasma gun over something that’s arbitrarily more powerful any day. And besides, with how hot 40K plasma is, it’s going to lose that energy that much faster, thanks to that little thing called entropy. Hotter isn’t always better.
@@KT-pv3kl I explicitly said I don’t care about the power, I care about reliability. I don’t give a damn if a 40k plasma pistol can melt a tank, I’d rather take the halo plasma pistol which scratches tanks but doesn’t blow up randomly.
@@ItsJustVirgil The explonding of wh40k plasmas is a bit overstated as ingame it's represented as a 1 on a d6 roll, in lore they only explode (or just stop working) when used under a lot of stress without venting the systems. The only drawbacks it's supposed to have is short range, as they lose a lot of hea,t and ammo ,as they consume a lot of energy with each shot
Even reliability aside, in a given plasma bolt, temperature doesn't mean that much. Sure, all else being equal, more temperature is more energy being dumped into the target, but why would we consider mass and density of a gun's weapons to be the same. In fact, mass (or caliber, as those are usually pretty closely correlated) is usually the first things we talk about when talking about slug throwers, and that only becomes more important with something that is as difficult to keep packed in a dense lump as plasma. To illustrate: would you rather spend 0.5s passing your hand through the orange flames of a camp fire, or on a steel pan that came right out of an oven on normal baking temperatures. Orange flames are ~6x hotter sitting somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,100°F to the pan's 350°F but because of the mass difference, I'd be expecting some small minor 1st degree burns from the fire (if that) and extensive 2nd degree burns from the metal. It's also usually way easier to dump a lot of energy into a larger chunk of mass than a smaller one and the larger one will generally hold onto it on the way to the target better.
Plasma guns in 40k are a weird thing. On one hand they are usually a veterancy/officer status symbol. On the other hand their main use is to weaken the armor of bigger targets like a ork mob in power armor for instance. Meaning its less a main weapon instead its more of an support weapon. Their main use is on vehicles first and foremost, there they shine the best. Not only can they store more "ammunition" in form of hydrogene tanks instead of of conventional ammo, it also focuses maintance to a smaller scale while equally providing the benefit. As the guardsman that has been issued a plasma rifle would need to be on the smarter more technical minded scale as they would recieve additional training on how to maintain the gun on the field - you cant issue every idiot one as that would lead to the known cases of the gun blowing up or the guy in question being too stupid to realize when your guns cooling system cant keep up with the rate of fire. Also by the way, the covenant doesnt fully understand their plasma weapons either, they just have the benefit of having vast access to forerunner stuff where they can reverse engineer stuff, without it the covenant is in the deep as they wouldnt be truly be able to produce plasma weapons any longer - tho this seems to have been dropped in the recent halo lore
A side note, if not for the exploding, a weapon that fires a projectile that glows bright and weakens the ability for an enemy to resist other weapon fire makes total sense for someone leading a squad of space marines. "Focus fire" suddenly becomes "everybody shoot whatever the armor-weakening plasma bolts are flying towards" without needing to take the time for verbal target specification because everyone always knows what the squad leader is shooting at.
@@dynamicworlds1 Good point, although just for the record. The exploding thing is vastly overblown by the fan base due to tabletop mechanic/ roll gods hating you. In universe the weapon only explodes if do one or both of the following things. - You neglect or fail at weapon maintenance - You too long overcharged the gun beyond its cooling/parts being able to handle the heat. Which falls under my "why only smart people are issued plasma weapons in the first place" bit
Or it's more a sign of the setting continuing to evolve. The former Covenant client races are starting to expand on the engineering acumen that they all had in common anyway, and are now looking at ways to change up the tech that had been deliberately suppressed by the hierarchs and the covenant culture itself for years.
I've always considered the 40k plasma weapons tendency to blow up a feature rather than a bug. Especially since an experienced shooter can kind of gauge when they're about to overheat. I can think of more than one instance in the lore of someone deliberately overusing theirs then throwing it towards an enemy, who subsequently went from "Oh hey, free gun!" to "Oh shi-" in about 2 seconds flat.
@@KT-pv3kl "LaHayn's mistake was that he reacted as a man, not as a psyker. His nascent powers could have deflected the thrown gun in an eye blink, but he was too new to them for it to be a reflex. The deacon caught the weapon in his hands and howled as the scorching heat of it burned him, and in that instant the overloaded *plasma pistol* detonated in a fireball." Faith & Fire by James Swallow
Most Halo plasma weapons have built in fail safes that start venting heat before they reach critical because at one point they didn't at it wasn't a fun time.
Realistically halo plasma weaponry is both more versatile and deadlier but to be fair the Covenant specialized in these types of weapons. Also by Versatile I do mean that they have weapons that can fit many different roles including energy blades (Not just swords but knifes and we know some blades have been fitted on other weapons.) Sniper rifles, Anti-Vehicle weapons, side arms, Assault rifles and compact rifles. I like 40k allot but the more I read into it the more I realize everything is not as super overpowered as I once thought, theirs a lot in halo that outclass warhammer but warhammer in my opinion is just a lot more fun. Like I love halo and its a greater series I love all of the books love the story love everything about it, but its doesn't have Orks and if it dose they must be purple.
I love this analysis. And not in an attempt to discredit your argument, but I think we need to look at the games first, then the lore. 40k Plasma was designed to be a high risk high reward weapon, while the Covenant's Plasma was designed to be a more basic enemy weapon. I know for 40k at least they design the models, then the rules, then the lore. So a cool looking Plasma weapon that blows up in your hands needs a reason to kill the space marine shooting it, and "as hot as a sun" is a memorable enough reason for the average player.
By looking at the mechanics a baseball bat, a screwdriver and a bare fist of a basic human has a little bit more than 10% of a chance to hurt astarte in a significant way once it hits him and that, with the average score in WS, meant 50% chance to hit. In pre-9th edition HP update it meant killing an astarte. And a lascanon has more than 15% of a chance not to kill astarte it hits. Astartes powered armor is only twice better than the basic guardsman flak armour. Astartes powered armor is as protective as tank's or imperial knight's. Astartes die very, very often in battles. Even against inferior enemies. That's a problem with using game mechanics. 40k TT rules were not designed to simulate the setting or anything really. They serve GW's wallet first, game second and finally to the story and feel of the universe never. I hate GW.
The “small sun” claim could also be in reference to white dwarfs, which would put the temperature of 40k plasma weapons at 175 thousand degrees. This makes more sense, to me, since plasma weapons are noted as exploding on impact, dealing massive damage, which would require a lot more energy or heat being contained to immediately destroy something like a tank, or a dreadnought.
If that's the case, a single shot from the weapon would simply nuke the user, the enemy force, the allied force, and probably everything else in a certain radius. It would be like trying to fire a ICBM from your shoulder and hoping that it doesn't kill you as well
@@nathanschultz7950 exactly. That amount of energy would vaporize a large area. If it was in the form of a close range weapon, it would be like a suicide bomb vest
If I remember correctly (I could be wrong), a white dwarf is really the left over inner core of a long dead our star (medium) or massive star. Which if true is a bit disingenuous as it’s stretching the small Star metaphor to its extreme. Like some saying my car sized object can output as much energy as a car sized object when in actuality it’s the leftover generator of a x power plant or frate ship. Though you could argue that the emperium was basing it on the core of a small sun not the surface temperature of a small Star. Impossible to prove and the practicality of wielding a weapon is impossible from the area of effect the nuclear reactions/area of effect killing the user if it’s not in the form of a ICBM. You could… but impossible to prove. I wouldn’t personally believe that because the Empirum engineers have a brutal working quota (if engineers fail they get executed), are religious irrational zealots, and in general emperium tend to propagandize (probably because of the first thing). And all that for tech which catastrophically breaks when used and the empire can’t even fabricate.
@@nathanschultz7950 their actually a explanation for this, though it's as much of an explanation as you are going to get. The plasma projectile is wrapped in a magnetic field when fired, similar in a way actually to what a energy sword is wrapped in. This magnetic field contains the heat and is only destroyed upon impact with something, upon which is disintegrates and allows the plasma to come into contact with the target.
@@r.cdahuman7682 yes but the point still stands the energy a white dwarf would emit uppon that impact would literally kill the person you used the weapon on and urself
Warhammer plasma weapons don't actually explode in the lore nearly as much as you might think, or even as much as is stated. I can think of very few examples off the top of my head. It's more "this *can* overheat and explode so be careful of that" than "this will overheat and explode and there is nothing you can do about it". While the imperium is very backwards, to the point that sceintific research is heresy, they wouldn't give their most powerful soldiers these weapons that explode constantly, considering how hard it is to make Space Marines.
Given the stats laid out I'd say the plasma weapons of both franchises are equivalent in terms of damage per shot. However, the differences like in how the imperium and the covenant use their plasma weapons. The imperial plasma guns are notoriously unreliable and slow firing as to prevent overheating. So the imperium uses plasma weapons mostly as anti-armor weapons and not as a standard issue weapon. The effectiveness lies entirely in how the weapons are used.
Wow, never thought I’d actually see the day when another franchise out did 40k lol. Great video as always, I hope you release more longer formats like this one.
@@Steve-qo7ub not to call you a liar, but like what? I'm *super*, into 40k, and most of the things said about space Marines are 100% supported in the lore and novels, even having multiple independent sources for them.
Jumping in here to drop this *"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."* - [Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW](mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/) *"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."* - [Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW](www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/) (in the comments) *"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."* - [Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series](facebook.com/notes/the-lord-inquisitor/interview-with-aaron-dembski-bowden/493311764034081/) *"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. If it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it."* - [Marc Gascogne, chief editor Black Library](aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/heresy-black-legion-chatter-in-the-mail-this-morning/)
Do not suffer faulty weaponry ever, get the best you can find or buy. Halo plasma is better because it has a higher rate of fire meaning it can be used to greater effect.
I think there is also a difference in payload If the astrates depiction of the plasma gun is realistic to the lore we can see that temperature isn't everything
I veiw it like this. 40k lore states most plasma rifles and other larger then pistol plasma guns have a splash radius. Roughly about 2 to 3 meters filled with a blast of scorthing air. But om the flip side. Covenant plasma weapons usually hit multiple times and are very accurate. If you want raw power and no regard for yourself? Go 40k You want reliability and long distance capabilities? Go halo
A thing that people always forget when comparing these two games and their plasma weaponry is that ultimately at those ridiculous temperatures, it doesn’t really matter what is hotter, the destructive capabilities are similar. Instead we should look towards the individual capability and variety of the actual weapons. Warhammer Plasma is usually portrayed as almost heavy anti-armour designed to blast through anything. Whilst Halo’s weaponry is nearly all designed for anti-infantry use with Carbines, Repeaters and Pistols. So comparing them is kind of pointless, they’re made to do different things. The Covenant weapons weren’t designed towards fighting uncountable hordes of Daemons, Tyranids or Orks that can just take ridiculous amounts of damage, but more towards having a relatively Elite Army.
And even if Warhammer plasma weapons were absurdly hotter, Halo plasma rifle (super common weapon, even humanity has a lot just because how much of them are left on the battlefield) can still kill a lot of things on Warhammer. It's like if you telling me what's better for deal with a crowd of enemies, one .50 cal that might explode or a thousands of M4s.
Hey just to point out when they say small star they might be referring to a white dwarf rather, another description of a temperatures reached by the 40K plasma gun describe it as being "hot as a solar flare" which is around 18 million degrees Fahrenheit, a white dwarf also is around 18 million degrees Fahrenheit. Also a bit less convincing evidence but the official GW magazine is also called "white dwarf" so they're probably referring to a white dwarf as a "small sun"
Covenant plasma, easy. Even if it was only 3000 degress, id still use it, as i know it will work and it can output alot of shots quickly, which could make up for any tempeture discrepencies.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Everyday I see new explinations on why 40k isn't as OP as most people try to claim it is and I just enjoy it because it makes things so more reasonable especially compared to other franchises aside from Halo.
It's not really a fair comparison in any right, considering that halos plasma weapons have a completely different purpose on the battlefield. if I wanted to kill infantry as efficiently as possible, I'd use covident plasma weapons, if I wanted to to a tank into a pool of liquid slag, I'd use 40k plasma weapons. 40k plasma weapons are more akin to the hunter arm cannon then the plasma rifle.
The most common problem with plasma weapons from warhammer 40k is that are radioactiv and for a normal human will get mutated or gain cancer from radiations of the weapon.
Also heat doesnt directly corelate to heat transfer, see: the Leiden Frost effect. So its probably more about that plasma's abillity to reach it's target and force its way into the target/ remain on the target rather than how hot it is when it gets there.
Well, Halo is wrong about plasma too, and prettybad, actually. In real life, plasma reaches temperatures of 11,000°C. So, why Covenant plasma is like... WAAAY less hot? (3,000°C). It just doesn't make any sense.
Fun Fact: in The Fall Of Reach Linda-058 gets caught off guard and her helmets shield fails, her brain was fucking exposed but they still saved her life… even after in cryo for a few weeks… and going back in time…
I mean, I'd take the covenant's carbine over a plasma pistol any day - radioactive slugs are pretty intimidating. Or the Needler. The Needler is just a war crime.
It's not fair you know literally the same book specifies that that is a plasma cannon and a cannon is not a gun.....(The flame caused by a Seraph fighters' plasma charge have a temperature of approximately 3,000 degrees Celsius,[1 ])
@@MarcusVance We are talking about a fighter weapon to kill ships. You can't buy it. I've seen all your videos and you're wrong about many things. You say that 40k doesn't respect the lore, but you forget that Halo doesn't understand either.
@@MarcusVance warhammer plasma weapon go with 15 Million degrees what make you believe that 3,000 degreas is enought for space marine armor or armored 40k venchichel to destroy? I just say because it is most likely that the lasgun has the same decrees or way more and they do shit to space marine armor no matter how long you shoot at them and no dont take example in books in which lasgun got penetrate space marine armor because it would be unfair if you take the weakest Version to franchise matchup just to favor the other one you Prefer 😮.
Not gonna lie. This just came off as if you're biased to Halo haha. I think the issue you're not addressing is you're averaging our galaxy to 40k. Which is sci fi high fantasy. Halo is simple sci fi with more realistic based weapons. The fact that your argument falls solely on plasma weapons exclaims that you are not truly comparing the world's fairly. Point in case. The UNSC.... still uses 7.62 ammo.... how does that fair to a bolt gun? What does the unsc have in terms of melta weapons? What does the unsc have on the baseline scale of their forces that could hope to compete with the overall might of 40k. I'd agree absolutely that Halo plasma is more reliable, sure. But your small squads of Spartans and marines aren't doing anything against 1 single chapter of any space marine faction. The only real advantage Halo has over 40k I'd logistics and travel. Eben then they have no force even comparable to that of the imperium of man. Let's not forgot also there are only how many Spartans? Most of which are truly not the caliber of the gen 2s like chief. The Halo universe would fall to 40k 9/10 times. Hypothetical: If you were to drop the entire UNSC and All the Spartans into the 40k verse. They are getting annexed into the empire or being wiped out by any number of factions. However, Drop the imperium of man into the Halo universe and the imperium of man would mop the entire verse.
True but there is the bellisarius pattern plasma guns that were made much safer and far more reliable by having an automated cooldown to prevent overheating
And really terrifying, most people don't realize it's a physical projectile and it's ungodly radioactive. Most even wounds that are usually considered none lethal will kill a person in less them 5 minutes due to the toxic martial.
Covenant weapons are widespread and work 100 % of the time. 40k plasma weapons explode every now and again. A if we equip a squad each I think the Covenant would win.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
40k fans: 40k plasma guns shoot out small suns -sure, but can it shoot more than 2 shots without blowing up your hand or your entire upper torso? 40k fans: well it can destroy tanks and other heavy armored enemies, so it's a high risk high reward weapon -are you saying our current day APHE rockets can't do the same? let alone with far future tech improvements?
@@thecommentguy9380 Only if you keep firing it again and again in quick succession. Seriously, if there was a 30% chance that a plasma gun would blow up when first used, nobody would use them.
@@Pepsi-Mann21 and it's funnier that despite being 40k years into the future, the techpriests couldn't figure out how to put a coolant or ventilator in their plasma guns like imagine having 5 high armored targets and you only have a plasma pistol that may or may not explode after 2 consecutive shot and will explode after 3rd
I'd take reliable over possibly explodes in my face any day. Atleast it's not dunes lazguns... sure they pretty much cut through anything like a knife through butter, but the way they interact with energy shields....
It should be noted that 40K plasma is actually extremely reliable unless pushed to the absolute brink. Also, the temperatures of plasma guns vary wildly depending on whether it’s a mass produced, relic, or archaotech design. For instance, the Fusil Actinaeus, The Lion’s personal sidearm, was a double barreled archaeotech plasma pistol that, when fired, birthed actual miniature suns, which would vaporize most matter in the immediate vicinity before decaying violently. That’s where I take exception with the Halo vs. Warhammer debate, is that the best that the UNSC has is just above their baseline and comparable to normal Astartes gear, but the best that the imperium has is actually fantasy bullshit. For instance, sticking with just the Dark Angels, their flagship has an entire vault of weapons so dangerous that only The Emperor, The Lion, and the Dreadbringer, a voted lieutenant approved by The Lion, knew about them. On the tamer end of things, this included bullets that erase the souls of whoever they strike. While equipment like this isn’t common in 40K, stuff like meltas and magma bombs are.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic. Also all that lore just says it heats things ups and then rapidly decays as In poofs away by being a small sun. heat is heat no matter if it’s from fantasy sun balls or not. Even if covent plasma is Bolter level (which it’s probably is considering the upscaled variants) then the average covenant is plenty powerful enough to down average space marine.
Covenant Plasma can be tanked by a spartan 40K power armor is much better in protection than Spartan armor 40k plasma is devastating against space marines I’d argue 40K plasma is much more powerful than Covvie plasma
After a lot of research into both settings, I don't believe that 40k power armor is more protective overall. Autoguns (7-8mm conventional weapons) have defeated Space Marine armor multiple times across lore. Meanwhile Spartans don't even start to worry about penetration until .50 BMG AP rounds. Granted, those autogun shots were to the joints/eyes, so the weakest points. The Space Marine chest and shoulders are more protected than a Spartan. However, the Spartan's armor is more consistent over the entire body, especially including the standard issue energy shield. So Astartes armor has lower lows, but higher highs. When those lows can bring one down, it's not the most ideal.
@@KT-pv3kl How about you just shut the hell up and stop getting angry and putting words into his mouth. We're looking for a discussion with people who have brains, not people who scream and yell.
@@MarcusVance Meanwhile, Buck's Mjolnir armor plating got penned by a bullet in a newer book. Note the bullet hit armor plating, not the much weaker bodysuit, which implies the bodysuit, which is heavily exposed, would be compromised.
halo wins because 3 reasons #1 halo plasma weapons have safety measures that force the weapon to vent heat when it gets too hot before it can be fired, and they also do not explode in use #2 halo plasma weapons are extremely common unlike their warhammer counterparts #3, halo plasma weaponry is SMALL, anything smaller than a plasma cannon can be carried by normal humans with ease, and even the plasma cannon can be carried by people with more strength such as an O.D.S.T. but even the warhammer plasma pistol is a struggle for a normal person to even pick up because its all sized for the space marines.
The Space Marine will have access to other weapons than just a plasma gun or plasma pistol. Whether it be combi-plasmas used by officers and veterans or the plasma cannons of the devastators and Long Fangs, relic plasma weapons from the Dark Angels Chapter and their successors, or vehicle mounted plasma weapons such the gravis heavy plasma cannons used by dreadnoughts or the plasma destroyers used by Deimos pattern predators. Then of course you have melta weapons which are the last word in anti armor weaponry (outside of 10th edition tabletop, *cries in Salamander* )
I think this is a fun comparison, I feel that the plasma weapons are similar tech but different intents. Based on video games and descriptions the 40k one for whatever reason seems to hit harder but has the reliability issue. Halo seems to be a precise, with a better rate of fire. I'd say the Halo one is the better weapon, it's safer and just as effective against most targets. If it was a big meaty target the 40k plasma is better but again I'd want safety. Also it seems some 40k plasma weapons have different settings. A weaker and safe shot or the volatile overcharge. As well as in Dark Heresy (RPG) the misfire isn't absolutely lethal. All of which are fun variable. However, the Halo plasma is just better as an infantry weapon. Again I want to not die! I'd want to see Tau weapons covered. Those railguns man! They might be a fun comparison.
Halo also has several different plasma weapons but even an overcharged shot from a plasma pistol has blown up 3 grunts and that is the "weakest" plasma weapon.
Also if we’re talking average star heat it gets worse, true whatever that thing is pointed at will no longer exist but neither will you or anything else in ~100sq miles. But knowing the imperium that might just be acceptable collateral damage
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Halo seems pretty tame when it comes to sci-fi but when you read into the lore a bit it quickly becomes apparent that the tech of the franchise is insane. Galaxy killing super weapons the size of large moons, plasma projectors with 100s of km of range and fleets of ships that are several kms long. 40K, on the other hand, is batshit from the get go. It’s probably a side effect of being a miniatures game where everything has to bigger to be seen but the lore has to explain it.
For me the discussion ends usualy with "but masterchief could beat an Astartes" yes. Pit him against a brother from the line and he'll probably win despite many odds are against him. Redundancy organs, extremly heavy armor and superior speed and reflexes. But pit him against another lieutenant and he WILL struggle. Or make it fair and let him, as the best of spartans, fight against the best of astartes and he'd most likely go down like a twig underfoot 🤷🏾♂️
The average Spartan is slightly stronger than the "average" Astartes. However the strongest Astartes is at least twice as physically strong as the strongest known Spartans. However, all Spartans have a reaction time at least 4x faster than Space Marines. And given that nothing in the geneseed directly augments their reflexes, I believe I'm being very generous with the predicted numbers for Space Marines. A reaction time of about 16 milliseconds max in armor (the average reaction time of humans is 270, and the fastest ever recorded in humans was ~85). Which is incredibly quick. However, the average Spartan has a reaction time of 4 milliseconds. This is the benefit of an augmentation that boosts reflexes-not just strength and durability.
@@MarcusVance I'm sorry but the average Spartan is no where near the level of an average Astartes. It is also stated in multiple books that Astartes have near nanosecond reaction time, which is 20,000 times faster than a Spartan. Even when the Spartan has an A.I. which is stated to increase their reaction speed considerably, an Astartes still has a reaction speed 4,000 times faster. I have no idea where you got that reaction time for Astartes from, but watching plenty of your videos you seem to not really have a proper understanding of Astartes and wildly underestimate their capabilities.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic. Neither it says 40k plasma is unreliable and definitely does less damage to the weapons of the covenant and the Covenant has more of it.
@@wastelesslearning1245 Imperial plasma pistols can eradicate gun emplacements in one, regular shot. (Search up "Astartes Part 3" and go to 1:30 in the vid)
It's the same gun except for and Warhammer all the safeties and safety systems inside the digital part of the gun has been turned off basically you get more bang for your buck but all the safeties are off so the thing might explode in your hand and kill you and destroy a small continent.
They said "as hot as a small sun." I think if they were counting dwarf stars they would said dwarf stars. To counter you as to the "smallest stars" bit - pulsars and neutron stars are some of the smallest stars in existence, or at least leftovers of them. They are also *_really damn hot._* With a 7 billion year old pulsar being about *_35 times as hot as our sun_* and neutron stars being about 1.8 million degrees Fahrenheit on average. So, because they are the smallest actual stars, by your logic, we can say that Warhammer 40K plasma is as at least as hot as 199,500 degrees Fahrenheit up to potentially 1.8 million degrees Fahrenheit. I mean, they *_are_* literally a small sun, the smallest actually. With both (pulsars are just neutron stars that emit radiation out of their poles) being around 12.5 miles in diameter on average. Further damning Halo plasma weaponry: What is it usually used against? Titanium alloys of the UNSC. With SPARTANs in MJOLNIR actually able to take a few hits with no energy shield up. And non-heavy weapons plasma weaponry not doing a great deal to armored vehicles. Not that impressive sounding to me. Meanwhile, what is plasma used against a lot in Warhammer 40K? Um, ceramite and adamantium, mystery fantasy metals, although we know ceramite is a ceramic composite that is *_very_* good as dissipating heat and adamantium is the strongest material that even DAoT humanity could develop. And what do normal handheld plasma weapons do to these materials? Well, against Space Marine armor... it turns it into slag. Against armor vehicles, it turns parts that were hit into slag. I dunno, when a guy with a plasma pistol in Warhammer 40K can start melting tank armor and a plasma pistol in Halo... doesn't... I'd have to say one is clearly more powerful than the other.
The "40k plasma hurts them more, so must be more powerful" perspective does make sense on the surface. But when we look deeper, the UNSC uses a refractive coating on all of their armor that dissapates heat. It is important to note that the UNSC uses bleeding edge technology, and the main enemy they fight uses these energy weapons. So logically they'd come up with decent countermeasures to the main things they face. Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma. That is two reasons why they wouldn't advance technology or change anything to protect from it better. And while I do lean heavily on the "as hot as a small sun" aspect... do you REALLY think that these people who think recoil exists because the spirit in their gun is mad at their enemy would know how to accurately measure temperature?
@@MarcusVance "But when we look deeper, the UNSC uses a refractive coating on all of their armor that dissapates heat." ...You mean the same tiles on their ships that is great at radiating away internal heat from the ship, but is known to cook the ship and its occupants when heated from the outside? Installation00 has done videos on the lore behind it, and in-universe, it didn't work that well when faced with the opposite of what it was designed to do. Also, the Imperium has ceramite, which is also designed to dissipate heat whether from internal or external heating. "It is important to note that the UNSC uses bleeding edge technology, and the main enemy they fight uses these energy weapons. So logically they'd come up with decent countermeasures to the main things they face." Many of the ships the UNSC pitted against the Covenant were made either before first contact with the Covenant on Harvest or before it was clear that the Covenant were an existential threat to the entire human species. And the way they they did "counter" it? Not with radiating materials, but with just more titanium armor. Take the Epoch-class heavy carrier. In universe, it started out with 1.5 meters of Titanium A1 armor. Later, at the height of the war, newer Epoch-classes had double the armor - 3 meters - of improved Titanium A2 armor. So not only did the upgrade the quality of the armor, they doubled it. Part of the problem in Halo's universe was just attrition and damage accumulating during combat. Basically any UNSC ship could eat a Covenant plasma torpedo and keep trucking. (Which... should say something. If you fire a *_torpedo_* that explodes in a gigantic ball of fire and even against frigates it's just a minor convenience... I dunno, seems like it should do more than that.) The problem is that each hit boils away armor and heats it up. And with thousands of plasma bolts or all those plasma torpedoes flying around, all you need is some concentrated fire for your ship to be combat ineffective. Then the Covenant take glee in targeting a doomed ship and rake it with even most plasma until either the crew is boiled alive or something heats up and explodes. Meanwhile, in Warhammer 40K, a single plasma torpedo can spell the doom of any species warship, even capital ships. And that's not for lack of armor or protection. My guess? The problem with Covenant plasma torpedoes and the like is the plasma just detonates on contact aaaand... that's it. The surface level is vaporized, but otherwise nothing much. Whereas with things like plasma torpedoes out of Warhammer 40K - they are designed to use plasma to burn into the ship and then vent the plasma inside of it. So if your armor can be melted away by the plasma, and it certainly can be, it won't last long. "Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma." *_But that doesn't mean as much as you think it means._* Is the Imperium a backwards religiously dogmatic technologically regressed civilization? Yes. They are also religiously dogmatic and regressed from a society that developed weapons that could transport enemy ships from one of the most advanced space-fairing civilizations in 40K back in time so that the ship, guided by a person that could see the future and "dodged" the "first" shot would be brought back time time by mere milliseconds to be hit (see: the Speranza). They possess technology that would make the Federation out of Star Trek look like cavemen smacking stones together. So when you fall from grace which is *_that high_* and you still have some of the shiny toys from that era to play with, you're still on better terms than the Humans from Halo... which are just only now putting effective energy shielding on ships. Wow. Good work, Halo-Humanity. That's something even the Imperium and Adeptus Mechanicus that thinks you need to light incense and rub sacred oils and recite a pray to untighten a screw can do and have done for over 10,000 years. After an apocalypse. That had it's own apocalypse. I mean, sure it took Halo-Humanity basically a quarter of a decade of having all the alien tech you could go through and *_several hundred billion_* humans dying and you really only got it done just as the war was ending... But... Y'know... The thought counts. "And while I do lean heavily on the 'as hot as a small sun' aspect... do you REALLY think that these people who think recoil exists because the spirit in their gun is mad at their enemy would know how to accurately measure temperature?" Honestly? Yeah, probably. They do have auger arrays made and designed by DAoT humans that can tell them that. And "machine spirits" is a convenient excuse whenever something goes wrong.
@@MarcusVance "Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma" They face plasma (Tau) and a lot more powerful weapons (Aeldari and Necrons).
Imperial plasma gets even hotter when you get quotes that say they are comparable "in appearance and temperature to solar flares". Solar flares easily exceed 10 million centigrade btw.
They are comparing a pistol to a rpg and that pistol that every covenant soldier uses as a sidearm can overcharge to vaporize up to 3 people in a single shot.
Has everyone forget that dwarf star aren't even stars, if I said that 40k plasma weapons were as hot as a neutron star that would be a more valid argument because then I would be taking about an actual star that can fuse elements at it's core and not a spicy gas giant.
You forgot to mention that 40K plasma weapons explode when they hit the target, and they only over heat when fired too much without being allowed to cool down, or the charged shot is allowed to charge for too long. Yes, the Covenant have far more stable plasma weapons, but stable does not always mean superior. 40K plasma weapons come in a variety of shapes and sizes, as do the plasma weapons in Halo, but there is a greater variety of plasma weapons in 40K, and they don't overheat as easily as the plasma weapons in Halo do.
@@Boxanadu In game when you get shot by grunt you just move through it and snap his neck. In the lore when you get shot, your torso melts off Edit: and this is a pistol. Something that all grunts can just grab and go
The number of things that are “as hot as the sun” is actually a very large list. So telling me that warhammer 40k plasma weapons are as hot as the sun or a small sun, that’s not really that impressive
@@MarcusVance There are quotes where you can get millions of degrees Celsius for 40k plasma. And sun star quotes are inherently going to be unreliable since stars have different temperatures based on what area you’re looking at.
40k isn't the most OP an eXtreme universe. It's the one with the most propaganda that the fans take at face value, despite the devs, authors, and editors saying you shouldn't. *"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."* - [Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW](mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/) *"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."* - [Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW](www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/) (in the comments) *"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."* - [Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series](facebook.com/notes/the-lord-inquisitor/interview-with-aaron-dembski-bowden/493311764034081/) *"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. If it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it."* - [Marc Gascogne, chief editor Black Library](aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/heresy-black-legion-chatter-in-the-mail-this-morning/)
WH40k has always given me “racist white people in space vibes.” Not sure if that’s accurate, but considering how much the art reminds me of Nazi stuff, I’ve never bothered to find out.
What exactly reminds you of nazi things? The only thing that comes to mind is the commisars, and they are more russian than germans. Or the kriegs, they are ww1 germans wich is not Nazi.
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 Totally a me thing btw, as far as I know. Everything about humans sounds like nazi-like stuff, which admittedly makes sense considering the space war situations (if we suddenly were at war with aliens I can see our society becoming much more fascist & militaristic & so on), but I also only ever have seen white humans. So it makes me feel like it was created from a “humans are white, all other humans are going to be aliens” perspective, which is off putting. Halo as a contrast, is very similar, but the human cast I’ve seen is much more diverse, and again, I can totally see us becoming more nazi-like in some ways as a result of alien invasion and/or space conquest. Having a well indoctrinated population just makes managing a space civilization easier.
@@kemsatofficial i'm not sure how much wh40k you consume but i, as a person who read and watch the lorr and novels, can asure you that the diversity in human colors is there, and in a galaxy at war, where the imperium fight for survival the racism between humans is the last thing that you are going to see(unless they have demonic like mutations, in wich case i think a little of hate and fear is justified) Personally one of my favorites characters is Ahzek Ahriman, a space marine who looks like a beatifull egipcian demi god.
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 I don’t consume it really, just see it come up all the time with other nerdy stuff. What I’ve heard hasn’t really appealed much to me. I feel like it’s influenced a lot of stuff though, so I’m getting my fix through those other IPs. Good to know I was wrong though.
In the right circumstances yeah. In a stealth situation, using Silent Shadow warriors, it don't see why they couldn't stealth kill an Astartes with an Energy Sword to the neck.
@@TheTGRproductions Motion trackers on space marine helmets are rather advanced, and Space Marines also have *insane hearing* to the point they can, for example, in one short story, hear ork war drums from a couple kilometers away. So hearing the elites walking wouldn't be to hard, since covenant sound dampeners don't actually completely erase the sound if I remember correctly. And their isn't even a guarantee that an energy sword would go through a space marine if that space marine had, say, an Iron Halo, which gives them a *very* powerful shield.
@@11jerans despite what Marcus says, space Marines are not comparable to Spartans. Space Marines are Spartans dialed up. Spartans do not have hearing like space Marines for example. The only thing Spartans really have on space Marines is spartan time. Space Marines have also consistently been able to completely crush heads in their bare hands. Without armor on. Not to mention space Marines wounds clot and seal almost instantly. Space Marines have gotten cuts and the wound is completely sealed and healed within 15 minutes. They have gotten fully stabbed and the bleeding stops in minutes.
@@r.cdahuman7682 except that they very much are comparable, in fact, it is quite clear based on evidence provided in the lore that Spartans have senses that are often times, including those of hearing, are equivalent to space marines, and their reaction times are significantly better than those of space marines.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Really enjoyed starting this video off with a sort of story. Do you want to see more of that?
I liked it
Heck yeah man. 40k content is great content. You ever watch any Luetin09? Great deep dives on lore and weapons and stuff. But I'd like to see your take on some of the more "GrimDark" aspects of 40k's weapons and equipment. Love your stuff, Marcus. Thanks for the good vids.
I think it's a good idea. Gives some context to what /type/ of point that you're trying to make with the video as a whole. A frame of reference for the question that you're trying to answer with the content of your research. Information and Data is great and all, but it usually needs to have some sort of context to be understood in the way the author is intending. Just as a scientific paper usually starts off with an Abstract before throwing charts at the reader.
Though the music at the beginning was probably 2-3 times too loud, so I could barely hear your voice. Maybe drop the volume down a bit?
Yeah dude, I like your style and know next to nothing about wh40k, it’s never appealed to me, but I vibe with your videos. Like, are Halo, and StarCraft and Warcraft all rips/reimaginings of wh40k?
You should start a story arc
Space Marine: Do plasma weapons often blow up in your face?
Techpriest: No, they only blow up once.
The games are canon, it’s just sometimes the representation of certain things aren’t canon accurate. Like how in the opening scene for Halo 4 Spartan 2s are dropping down onto earth when the covenant show up but they’re wearing Mk6 Gen1 mod instead of Mk4 Gen1 (or Mk5 Gen 1 I can’t remember which it is)
The biggest discrepancy is damage. In the games lightly armored Marines can tank plasma. In the books easy clap.
And how much damage Spartans can take, which is a lot more than the games. They don't even start worrying about their metal armor being breached until .50 BMG AP rounds.
Well the MK6 was made available for Spartans in 2552, which was the closing year of the war, most likely this means that this happened during the battle of earth.
@@slyllamademon2652 Even so, it shouldn't be that style. It looks too off and it kinda shoved a new artstyle on it instead of progressing into one like 343 should've. In addition, 343 states that the reason Master chief's armor changed from 3 to 4 was because cortana used nanbots to upgrade it. in theroy, this should mean chief's H4 and 5 armor is wholly unquie to him and no other spartan has it.
@@MarcusVance Wait, since when are the Marines lightly armoured? They're not fully protected, but the armour they use is comprised of heavy - likely Titanium - armour plating and covers all the spots most likely to get hit. The main difference between marines and Spartans ability to tank plasma is the energy shielding, but besides that it's mentioned at least in the Cole Protocol that Mjolnir can sort of shrug off a plasma hit without significant damage. Since the majority of plasma bolts fired during the war would inflict 2nd to 3rd degree burns, it's not that out there for a Marine to take some fire, if not sustained fire, and survive.
@@Belle_End777 within the halo universe marine armour falls within the light to medium armour category, heavy being reserved for certain brute as well as Spartan armours.
The plasma guns themselves are different to one another, this is because whilst the blast of a space marine plasma pistol/gun shoots one large blast of plasma whereas halo covenant weapons fire constant streams of less concentrated plasma
Streams?
@@bladeRoller continuous bursts of light plasma fire
you dont seem to know much about halo do you? both fire plasma in short pulses, like a small ball, the covenant do have at least one weapon that does fire a continuous beam, and thats the beam rifle, however, all other weapons fire pulses of plasma, similar to warhammer. the difference being that the covenant weapons do not have as much impact as 40k, but this could be due to the fact that most plasma weapons in 40k are twice the size or more of even the halo plasma launcher which was a rocket launcher type weapon that could fire up to four projectiles that could track the target and detonate after making contact. for the most part both fire short pulses of plasma energy, some packing more punch than others, but pound for pound, covenant wins because of how compact they are
@@realmofrandom3696 I’m space bug, okay? I see difference okay? I eat everything, okay?
@@realmofrandom3696 in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. Now forunner Material is a miricle however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle, fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hop the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, Mech Suits, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic
From what i've read about the lore in 40k plasma weaponry doesn't really explode that often, they can explode when used in a very fast succession without letting the weapon cool. It wouldn't make sense in-lore to give important personnel and vehicles weapons that unreliable considering the amount of fighting they do.
The fact about them exploding so often is derived from the ingame rules were when overheating the gun it explodes on a roll of 1 on a d6, also meaning that it would never explode if you never overheated the gun.
As for the power of the weapon, the wh plasmas are supposed to be used against heavy armored targets like transports, tanks and heavy infantry. Maybe rather than the temperature it's the projectile size that makes the difference, as a bigger slug would keep more heat during the travel time and deliver a bigger impact/surface of heat
P.S: I forgot to add that overheating is an option ingame. You can overheat and get more damage at the cost of maybe exploding or fire normally without risk
When you reach degrees in excess of a few thousand Celsius, I don’t think the heat aspect even matters much. I’d take a reliable but “weaker” plasma gun over something that’s arbitrarily more powerful any day.
And besides, with how hot 40K plasma is, it’s going to lose that energy that much faster, thanks to that little thing called entropy. Hotter isn’t always better.
@@KT-pv3kl I explicitly said I don’t care about the power, I care about reliability. I don’t give a damn if a 40k plasma pistol can melt a tank, I’d rather take the halo plasma pistol which scratches tanks but doesn’t blow up randomly.
@@ItsJustVirgil The explonding of wh40k plasmas is a bit overstated as ingame it's represented as a 1 on a d6 roll, in lore they only explode (or just stop working) when used under a lot of stress without venting the systems. The only drawbacks it's supposed to have is short range, as they lose a lot of hea,t and ammo ,as they consume a lot of energy with each shot
Even reliability aside, in a given plasma bolt, temperature doesn't mean that much. Sure, all else being equal, more temperature is more energy being dumped into the target, but why would we consider mass and density of a gun's weapons to be the same. In fact, mass (or caliber, as those are usually pretty closely correlated) is usually the first things we talk about when talking about slug throwers, and that only becomes more important with something that is as difficult to keep packed in a dense lump as plasma.
To illustrate: would you rather spend 0.5s passing your hand through the orange flames of a camp fire, or on a steel pan that came right out of an oven on normal baking temperatures.
Orange flames are ~6x hotter sitting somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,100°F to the pan's 350°F but because of the mass difference, I'd be expecting some small minor 1st degree burns from the fire (if that) and extensive 2nd degree burns from the metal.
It's also usually way easier to dump a lot of energy into a larger chunk of mass than a smaller one and the larger one will generally hold onto it on the way to the target better.
@@KT-pv3kl yeah mainly what i put was as represented in-lore. In-game is always a bit different as they have to balance the rules
past around 3k degrees, it doesnt really matter, you're dead either way
Plasma guns in 40k are a weird thing. On one hand they are usually a veterancy/officer status symbol. On the other hand their main use is to weaken the armor of bigger targets like a ork mob in power armor for instance. Meaning its less a main weapon instead its more of an support weapon.
Their main use is on vehicles first and foremost, there they shine the best. Not only can they store more "ammunition" in form of hydrogene tanks instead of of conventional ammo, it also focuses maintance to a smaller scale while equally providing the benefit. As the guardsman that has been issued a plasma rifle would need to be on the smarter more technical minded scale as they would recieve additional training on how to maintain the gun on the field - you cant issue every idiot one as that would lead to the known cases of the gun blowing up or the guy in question being too stupid to realize when your guns cooling system cant keep up with the rate of fire.
Also by the way, the covenant doesnt fully understand their plasma weapons either, they just have the benefit of having vast access to forerunner stuff where they can reverse engineer stuff, without it the covenant is in the deep as they wouldnt be truly be able to produce plasma weapons any longer - tho this seems to have been dropped in the recent halo lore
Great points!
A side note, if not for the exploding, a weapon that fires a projectile that glows bright and weakens the ability for an enemy to resist other weapon fire makes total sense for someone leading a squad of space marines.
"Focus fire" suddenly becomes "everybody shoot whatever the armor-weakening plasma bolts are flying towards" without needing to take the time for verbal target specification because everyone always knows what the squad leader is shooting at.
@@dynamicworlds1 Good point, although just for the record. The exploding thing is vastly overblown by the fan base due to tabletop mechanic/ roll gods hating you.
In universe the weapon only explodes if do one or both of the following things.
- You neglect or fail at weapon maintenance
- You too long overcharged the gun beyond its cooling/parts being able to handle the heat.
Which falls under my "why only smart people are issued plasma weapons in the first place" bit
Or it's more a sign of the setting continuing to evolve. The former Covenant client races are starting to expand on the engineering acumen that they all had in common anyway, and are now looking at ways to change up the tech that had been deliberately suppressed by the hierarchs and the covenant culture itself for years.
I like how nobody, not even the covenant, really know how needlers work. They just work and thats good enough for everyone.
I've always considered the 40k plasma weapons tendency to blow up a feature rather than a bug. Especially since an experienced shooter can kind of gauge when they're about to overheat. I can think of more than one instance in the lore of someone deliberately overusing theirs then throwing it towards an enemy, who subsequently went from "Oh hey, free gun!" to "Oh shi-" in about 2 seconds flat.
@@KT-pv3kl "LaHayn's mistake was that he reacted as a man, not as a psyker. His nascent powers could have deflected the thrown gun in an eye blink, but he was too new to them for it to be a reflex. The deacon caught the weapon in his hands and howled as the scorching heat of it burned him, and in that instant the overloaded *plasma pistol* detonated in a fireball."
Faith & Fire by James Swallow
Most Halo plasma weapons have built in fail safes that start venting heat before they reach critical because at one point they didn't at it wasn't a fun time.
Realistically halo plasma weaponry is both more versatile and deadlier but to be fair the Covenant specialized in these types of weapons. Also by Versatile I do mean that they have weapons that can fit many different roles including energy blades (Not just swords but knifes and we know some blades have been fitted on other weapons.) Sniper rifles, Anti-Vehicle weapons, side arms, Assault rifles and compact rifles. I like 40k allot but the more I read into it the more I realize everything is not as super overpowered as I once thought, theirs a lot in halo that outclass warhammer but warhammer in my opinion is just a lot more fun. Like I love halo and its a greater series I love all of the books love the story love everything about it, but its doesn't have Orks and if it dose they must be purple.
I love this analysis. And not in an attempt to discredit your argument, but I think we need to look at the games first, then the lore. 40k Plasma was designed to be a high risk high reward weapon, while the Covenant's Plasma was designed to be a more basic enemy weapon.
I know for 40k at least they design the models, then the rules, then the lore. So a cool looking Plasma weapon that blows up in your hands needs a reason to kill the space marine shooting it, and "as hot as a sun" is a memorable enough reason for the average player.
By looking at the mechanics a baseball bat, a screwdriver and a bare fist of a basic human has a little bit more than 10% of a chance to hurt astarte in a significant way once it hits him and that, with the average score in WS, meant 50% chance to hit. In pre-9th edition HP update it meant killing an astarte.
And a lascanon has more than 15% of a chance not to kill astarte it hits.
Astartes powered armor is only twice better than the basic guardsman flak armour.
Astartes powered armor is as protective as tank's or imperial knight's.
Astartes die very, very often in battles. Even against inferior enemies.
That's a problem with using game mechanics. 40k TT rules were not designed to simulate the setting or anything really. They serve GW's wallet first, game second and finally to the story and feel of the universe never.
I hate GW.
The “small sun” claim could also be in reference to white dwarfs, which would put the temperature of 40k plasma weapons at 175 thousand degrees. This makes more sense, to me, since plasma weapons are noted as exploding on impact, dealing massive damage, which would require a lot more energy or heat being contained to immediately destroy something like a tank, or a dreadnought.
If that's the case, a single shot from the weapon would simply nuke the user, the enemy force, the allied force, and probably everything else in a certain radius. It would be like trying to fire a ICBM from your shoulder and hoping that it doesn't kill you as well
@@nathanschultz7950 exactly. That amount of energy would vaporize a large area. If it was in the form of a close range weapon, it would be like a suicide bomb vest
If I remember correctly (I could be wrong), a white dwarf is really the left over inner core of a long dead our star (medium) or massive star. Which if true is a bit disingenuous as it’s stretching the small Star metaphor to its extreme. Like some saying my car sized object can output as much energy as a car sized object when in actuality it’s the leftover generator of a x power plant or frate ship.
Though you could argue that the emperium was basing it on the core of a small sun not the surface temperature of a small Star. Impossible to prove and the practicality of wielding a weapon is impossible from the area of effect the nuclear reactions/area of effect killing the user if it’s not in the form of a ICBM. You could… but impossible to prove. I wouldn’t personally believe that because the Empirum engineers have a brutal working quota (if engineers fail they get executed), are religious irrational zealots, and in general emperium tend to propagandize (probably because of the first thing). And all that for tech which catastrophically breaks when used and the empire can’t even fabricate.
@@nathanschultz7950 their actually a explanation for this, though it's as much of an explanation as you are going to get.
The plasma projectile is wrapped in a magnetic field when fired, similar in a way actually to what a energy sword is wrapped in. This magnetic field contains the heat and is only destroyed upon impact with something, upon which is disintegrates and allows the plasma to come into contact with the target.
@@r.cdahuman7682 yes but the point still stands the energy a white dwarf would emit uppon that impact would literally kill the person you used the weapon on and urself
I prefer reliability, as i don't want to play a game of chance while under stress and in a dangerous situation.
Warhammer plasma weapons don't actually explode in the lore nearly as much as you might think, or even as much as is stated. I can think of very few examples off the top of my head. It's more "this *can* overheat and explode so be careful of that" than "this will overheat and explode and there is nothing you can do about it".
While the imperium is very backwards, to the point that sceintific research is heresy, they wouldn't give their most powerful soldiers these weapons that explode constantly, considering how hard it is to make Space Marines.
Given the stats laid out I'd say the plasma weapons of both franchises are equivalent in terms of damage per shot. However, the differences like in how the imperium and the covenant use their plasma weapons.
The imperial plasma guns are notoriously unreliable and slow firing as to prevent overheating. So the imperium uses plasma weapons mostly as anti-armor weapons and not as a standard issue weapon.
The effectiveness lies entirely in how the weapons are used.
Wow, never thought I’d actually see the day when another franchise out did 40k lol. Great video as always, I hope you release more longer formats like this one.
Wait until you learn that almost everything we hear about Space Marines is an exaggeration
@@KT-pv3kl Name who?
@@Steve-qo7ub name your proofs
@@Steve-qo7ub not to call you a liar, but like what? I'm *super*, into 40k, and most of the things said about space Marines are 100% supported in the lore and novels, even having multiple independent sources for them.
Jumping in here to drop this
*"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."*
- [Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW](mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/)
*"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."*
- [Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW](www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/) (in the comments)
*"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."*
- [Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series](facebook.com/notes/the-lord-inquisitor/interview-with-aaron-dembski-bowden/493311764034081/)
*"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. If it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it."*
- [Marc Gascogne, chief editor Black Library](aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/heresy-black-legion-chatter-in-the-mail-this-morning/)
Do not suffer faulty weaponry ever, get the best you can find or buy. Halo plasma is better because it has a higher rate of fire meaning it can be used to greater effect.
I think there is also a difference in payload
If the astrates depiction of the plasma gun is realistic to the lore we can see that temperature isn't everything
I believe the consensus for Halo is that the Heroic difficulty is the canon setting.
I veiw it like this. 40k lore states most plasma rifles and other larger then pistol plasma guns have a splash radius. Roughly about 2 to 3 meters filled with a blast of scorthing air.
But om the flip side. Covenant plasma weapons usually hit multiple times and are very accurate.
If you want raw power and no regard for yourself? Go 40k
You want reliability and long distance capabilities? Go halo
A thing that people always forget when comparing these two games and their plasma weaponry is that ultimately at those ridiculous temperatures, it doesn’t really matter what is hotter, the destructive capabilities are similar. Instead we should look towards the individual capability and variety of the actual weapons. Warhammer Plasma is usually portrayed as almost heavy anti-armour designed to blast through anything. Whilst Halo’s weaponry is nearly all designed for anti-infantry use with Carbines, Repeaters and Pistols. So comparing them is kind of pointless, they’re made to do different things. The Covenant weapons weren’t designed towards fighting uncountable hordes of Daemons, Tyranids or Orks that can just take ridiculous amounts of damage, but more towards having a relatively Elite Army.
And even if Warhammer plasma weapons were absurdly hotter, Halo plasma rifle (super common weapon, even humanity has a lot just because how much of them are left on the battlefield) can still kill a lot of things on Warhammer. It's like if you telling me what's better for deal with a crowd of enemies, one .50 cal that might explode or a thousands of M4s.
Hey just to point out when they say small star they might be referring to a white dwarf rather, another description of a temperatures reached by the 40K plasma gun describe it as being "hot as a solar flare" which is around 18 million degrees Fahrenheit, a white dwarf also is around 18 million degrees Fahrenheit. Also a bit less convincing evidence but the official GW magazine is also called "white dwarf" so they're probably referring to a white dwarf as a "small sun"
can they both kill a soldier with a single shot? yes? then who's the hottest doesn't matter
Try talking to someone who insists that 40k is better in every way
With a 40k plasma weapon you want to kill tanks, no infantry
Wait until you hear about what Covenant ships use
Covenant plasma, easy. Even if it was only 3000 degress, id still use it, as i know it will work and it can output alot of shots quickly, which could make up for any tempeture discrepencies.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Everyday I see new explinations on why 40k isn't as OP as most people try to claim it is and I just enjoy it because it makes things so more reasonable especially compared to other franchises aside from Halo.
The fact that Warhammer is bad with numbers really hamstrings it
It's not really a fair comparison in any right, considering that halos plasma weapons have a completely different purpose on the battlefield. if I wanted to kill infantry as efficiently as possible, I'd use covident plasma weapons, if I wanted to to a tank into a pool of liquid slag, I'd use 40k plasma weapons. 40k plasma weapons are more akin to the hunter arm cannon then the plasma rifle.
I think having a 5000 degree toaster oven blow up in my hand would really ruin my day, so im gona side with halo.
The most common problem with plasma weapons from warhammer 40k is that are radioactiv and for a normal human will get mutated or gain cancer from radiations of the weapon.
Also heat doesnt directly corelate to heat transfer, see: the Leiden Frost effect. So its probably more about that plasma's abillity to reach it's target and force its way into the target/ remain on the target rather than how hot it is when it gets there.
Well, Halo is wrong about plasma too, and prettybad, actually. In real life, plasma reaches temperatures of 11,000°C. So, why Covenant plasma is like... WAAAY less hot? (3,000°C). It just doesn't make any sense.
Fun Fact: in The Fall Of Reach Linda-058 gets caught off guard and her helmets shield fails, her brain was fucking exposed but they still saved her life… even after in cryo for a few weeks… and going back in time…
Yeah and if you overcharge the 40k plasma gun you explode too.
Spartans have access to a category of weapons called Spartan weapons. Installation00 had a video on a few of them.
I mean, I'd take the covenant's carbine over a plasma pistol any day - radioactive slugs are pretty intimidating. Or the Needler. The Needler is just a war crime.
The Covenant don't even know how the Needler works and they made the fucking thing.
@@starhammer5247 Does it matter? We know what happens when you get hit by it
@@TaosoftheVoid That we do. Still have no fucking idea how it works though, and I really want to figure out how.
@@starhammer5247 No firing mechanism yet takes clumps of the crystal ammunition. Reloads via flick of the wrist.
@@achair7265 Yep, as established, we have no fucking clue how this shit works.
It's not fair you know literally the same book specifies that that is a plasma cannon and a cannon is not a gun.....(The flame caused by a Seraph fighters' plasma charge have a temperature of approximately 3,000 degrees Celsius,[1 ])
And yet other books specify plasma wounding patterns that match that heat.
@@MarcusVance We are talking about a fighter weapon to kill ships. You can't buy it. I've seen all your videos and you're wrong about many things. You say that 40k doesn't respect the lore, but you forget that Halo doesn't understand either.
while titanium, a key component of UNSC ship armor, has a melting point of 1668 degrees Celsius ?
Now that I think about it, I have a question for you. How much temperature is needed, theoretically, of course, does it disintegrate someone?
@@MarcusVance warhammer plasma weapon go with 15 Million degrees what make you believe that 3,000 degreas is enought for space marine armor or armored 40k venchichel to destroy? I just say because it is most likely that the lasgun has the same decrees or way more and they do shit to space marine armor no matter how long you shoot at them and no dont take example in books in which lasgun got penetrate space marine armor because it would be unfair if you take the weakest Version to franchise matchup just to favor the other one you Prefer 😮.
And the covenant weaponry aren't even the worse, forerunners weapons are even hotter and even more dangerous
Eldar plasma weapon can tear through tanks instantly and are leagues ahead in reliability that imperial counterparts
@@kyodairiker I'm pretty sure there's a difference between tearing through and atomization...
Not gonna lie. This just came off as if you're biased to Halo haha. I think the issue you're not addressing is you're averaging our galaxy to 40k. Which is sci fi high fantasy.
Halo is simple sci fi with more realistic based weapons.
The fact that your argument falls solely on plasma weapons exclaims that you are not truly comparing the world's fairly.
Point in case. The UNSC.... still uses 7.62 ammo.... how does that fair to a bolt gun?
What does the unsc have in terms of melta weapons?
What does the unsc have on the baseline scale of their forces that could hope to compete with the overall might of 40k. I'd agree absolutely that Halo plasma is more reliable, sure. But your small squads of Spartans and marines aren't doing anything against 1 single chapter of any space marine faction.
The only real advantage Halo has over 40k I'd logistics and travel. Eben then they have no force even comparable to that of the imperium of man.
Let's not forgot also there are only how many Spartans? Most of which are truly not the caliber of the gen 2s like chief.
The Halo universe would fall to 40k 9/10 times.
Hypothetical:
If you were to drop the entire UNSC and All the Spartans into the 40k verse. They are getting annexed into the empire or being wiped out by any number of factions.
However,
Drop the imperium of man into the Halo universe and the imperium of man would mop the entire verse.
Halo for the favour. Not the victory. Since it won't matter how hotter Plasma is from the other. As long as it burns it burns.
@@KT-pv3kl true though. But its never one loneley bolt. And one alone can burn though the armor plating of an unshielded MK-IV.
True but there is the bellisarius pattern plasma guns that were made much safer and far more reliable by having an automated cooldown to prevent overheating
@@stubbornspaceman7201 i didn't understand any of that but, noted😅
@@Commander_Raveth it will trigger a cooldown before the gun can overheat and well potentially explode
Unlike previous imperial plasma weapons which had to have their cooldown triggered manually.
I wonder what Fallout’s Plasma weapons would scale to this
Arguably higher. I think the turning someone into a puddle is canon.
@@MarcusVanceThink that you will ever go into depth about Fallout energy weapons next seeing as how the trailer for the tv show just dropped recently.
My opinion is if they both melt metal at a good rate. I would just take the most reliable. So in this case halo.
The covenant carbine is my favorite video game weapon
And really terrifying, most people don't realize it's a physical projectile and it's ungodly radioactive. Most even wounds that are usually considered none lethal will kill a person in less them 5 minutes due to the toxic martial.
Covenant weapons are widespread and work 100 % of the time. 40k plasma weapons explode every now and again. A if we equip a squad each I think the Covenant would win.
The smallest sun I think is a brown dwarf star, which i think is 30x the mass of Jupiter. So how hot is that from surface to the core?
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
The best plasma weapons is Warhammer 40k. Why because this weapon can be reload, and has different design to pistols, rifles, and heavy weapons.
Tbh i like halo more
The instability of 40K plasma adds the utility of a hand grenade to your gun. A gun and grenade in one? Better value.
Sounds like halo plasma is better
40k fans: 40k plasma guns shoot out small suns
-sure, but can it shoot more than 2 shots without blowing up your hand or your entire upper torso?
40k fans: well it can destroy tanks and other heavy armored enemies, so it's a high risk high reward weapon
-are you saying our current day APHE rockets can't do the same? let alone with far future tech improvements?
When the plasma gun in question is a pistol, it's quite impressive.
@@Pepsi-Mann21 it's a death trap
@@thecommentguy9380 Only if you keep firing it again and again in quick succession.
Seriously, if there was a 30% chance that a plasma gun would blow up when first used, nobody would use them.
@@Pepsi-Mann21 and it's funnier that despite being 40k years into the future, the techpriests couldn't figure out how to put a coolant or ventilator in their plasma guns
like imagine having 5 high armored targets and you only have a plasma pistol that may or may not explode after 2 consecutive shot and will explode after 3rd
@@thecommentguy9380 If your gun detonated after a couple of shots, you would never use it.
I'd take reliable over possibly explodes in my face any day. Atleast it's not dunes lazguns... sure they pretty much cut through anything like a knife through butter, but the way they interact with energy shields....
Bellisarius pattern plasma weapons are reliable due to having an automated cooldown.
It should be noted that 40K plasma is actually extremely reliable unless pushed to the absolute brink. Also, the temperatures of plasma guns vary wildly depending on whether it’s a mass produced, relic, or archaotech design. For instance, the Fusil Actinaeus, The Lion’s personal sidearm, was a double barreled archaeotech plasma pistol that, when fired, birthed actual miniature suns, which would vaporize most matter in the immediate vicinity before decaying violently. That’s where I take exception with the Halo vs. Warhammer debate, is that the best that the UNSC has is just above their baseline and comparable to normal Astartes gear, but the best that the imperium has is actually fantasy bullshit. For instance, sticking with just the Dark Angels, their flagship has an entire vault of weapons so dangerous that only The Emperor, The Lion, and the Dreadbringer, a voted lieutenant approved by The Lion, knew about them. On the tamer end of things, this included bullets that erase the souls of whoever they strike. While equipment like this isn’t common in 40K, stuff like meltas and magma bombs are.
And also Cawl’s plasma weapons are also more reliable do to them having a forced cool down.
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Also all that lore just says it heats things ups and then rapidly decays as In poofs away by being a small sun. heat is heat no matter if it’s from fantasy sun balls or not. Even if covent plasma is Bolter level (which it’s probably is considering the upscaled variants) then the average covenant is plenty powerful enough to down average space marine.
@@wastelesslearning1245 Imperial plasma pistols can eradicate gun emplacements (Search up "Astartes Part 3" and go to 1:30 in the vid)
Covenant Plasma can be tanked by a spartan
40K power armor is much better in protection than Spartan armor
40k plasma is devastating against space marines
I’d argue 40K plasma is much more powerful than Covvie plasma
After a lot of research into both settings, I don't believe that 40k power armor is more protective overall.
Autoguns (7-8mm conventional weapons) have defeated Space Marine armor multiple times across lore.
Meanwhile Spartans don't even start to worry about penetration until .50 BMG AP rounds.
Granted, those autogun shots were to the joints/eyes, so the weakest points. The Space Marine chest and shoulders are more protected than a Spartan.
However, the Spartan's armor is more consistent over the entire body, especially including the standard issue energy shield.
So Astartes armor has lower lows, but higher highs. When those lows can bring one down, it's not the most ideal.
@@KT-pv3kl How about you just shut the hell up and stop getting angry and putting words into his mouth. We're looking for a discussion with people who have brains, not people who scream and yell.
@@MarcusVance Meanwhile, Buck's Mjolnir armor plating got penned by a bullet in a newer book.
Note the bullet hit armor plating, not the much weaker bodysuit, which implies the bodysuit, which is heavily exposed, would be compromised.
@@MarcusVance imagine downplaying 40k this hard.
halo wins because 3 reasons
#1 halo plasma weapons have safety measures that force the weapon to vent heat when it gets too hot before it can be fired, and they also do not explode in use
#2 halo plasma weapons are extremely common unlike their warhammer counterparts
#3, halo plasma weaponry is SMALL, anything smaller than a plasma cannon can be carried by normal humans with ease, and even the plasma cannon can be carried by people with more strength such as an O.D.S.T. but even the warhammer plasma pistol is a struggle for a normal person to even pick up because its all sized for the space marines.
Halo plasma guns are better
The Space Marine will have access to other weapons than just a plasma gun or plasma pistol. Whether it be combi-plasmas used by officers and veterans or the plasma cannons of the devastators and Long Fangs, relic plasma weapons from the Dark Angels Chapter and their successors, or vehicle mounted plasma weapons such the gravis heavy plasma cannons used by dreadnoughts or the plasma destroyers used by Deimos pattern predators.
Then of course you have melta weapons which are the last word in anti armor weaponry (outside of 10th edition tabletop, *cries in Salamander* )
I think this is a fun comparison, I feel that the plasma weapons are similar tech but different intents.
Based on video games and descriptions the 40k one for whatever reason seems to hit harder but has the reliability issue. Halo seems to be a precise, with a better rate of fire.
I'd say the Halo one is the better weapon, it's safer and just as effective against most targets.
If it was a big meaty target the 40k plasma is better but again I'd want safety.
Also it seems some 40k plasma weapons have different settings. A weaker and safe shot or the volatile overcharge. As well as in Dark Heresy (RPG) the misfire isn't absolutely lethal. All of which are fun variable.
However, the Halo plasma is just better as an infantry weapon. Again I want to not die!
I'd want to see Tau weapons covered. Those railguns man!
They might be a fun comparison.
I should break down some Tau stuff
The guy is dump
Halo also has several different plasma weapons but even an overcharged shot from a plasma pistol has blown up 3 grunts and that is the "weakest" plasma weapon.
Also if we’re talking average star heat it gets worse, true whatever that thing is pointed at will no longer exist but neither will you or anything else in ~100sq miles.
But knowing the imperium that might just be acceptable collateral damage
So are covanant ones like a grunt plasma weapon melted a Marines chest through armor
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Halo seems pretty tame when it comes to sci-fi but when you read into the lore a bit it quickly becomes apparent that the tech of the franchise is insane. Galaxy killing super weapons the size of large moons, plasma projectors with 100s of km of range and fleets of ships that are several kms long.
40K, on the other hand, is batshit from the get go. It’s probably a side effect of being a miniatures game where everything has to bigger to be seen but the lore has to explain it.
40k plasma is strong but dangerous, halo's plasma is strong but "safe"
I think I’ll stick with covenant plasma weapons, thanks
I still liked your video and would probably enjoy you doing a whole verse comparison rather than just plasma.
No you wrong
Density of plasma os just as important. Would you rather be splashed with a cup of hot coffee or a gallon of hot coffee.
Is there any historical weapons like a sword spear and anything like the nameless kings weapon in dark souls 3
Sword staff, guan dao, naginata, and maybe glaives.
@@MarcusVance thank you so much couldn't find the specific name and now they're all here thank youu
could you campare nanosuit with the others? eventually the potential evolution of nanosuit(cause it can change itself)
The lore says as hot as small sun, NOt as hot as the surface of the small sun.
Does't 40k passa guns make holes in tanks? And I think it blows up if it is badly mantained or overheated
I mean, what about white dwarfs?
White dwarfs are dead and so are colder then red dwarfs
For me the discussion ends usualy with "but masterchief could beat an Astartes" yes. Pit him against a brother from the line and he'll probably win despite many odds are against him. Redundancy organs, extremly heavy armor and superior speed and reflexes. But pit him against another lieutenant and he WILL struggle. Or make it fair and let him, as the best of spartans, fight against the best of astartes and he'd most likely go down like a twig underfoot 🤷🏾♂️
The average Spartan is slightly stronger than the "average" Astartes.
However the strongest Astartes is at least twice as physically strong as the strongest known Spartans.
However, all Spartans have a reaction time at least 4x faster than Space Marines. And given that nothing in the geneseed directly augments their reflexes, I believe I'm being very generous with the predicted numbers for Space Marines. A reaction time of about 16 milliseconds max in armor (the average reaction time of humans is 270, and the fastest ever recorded in humans was ~85). Which is incredibly quick.
However, the average Spartan has a reaction time of 4 milliseconds. This is the benefit of an augmentation that boosts reflexes-not just strength and durability.
@@MarcusVance I'm sorry but the average Spartan is no where near the level of an average Astartes. It is also stated in multiple books that Astartes have near nanosecond reaction time, which is 20,000 times faster than a Spartan. Even when the Spartan has an A.I. which is stated to increase their reaction speed considerably, an Astartes still has a reaction speed 4,000 times faster.
I have no idea where you got that reaction time for Astartes from, but watching plenty of your videos you seem to not really have a proper understanding of Astartes and wildly underestimate their capabilities.
@@SaltyDutchman the guys is dumb
@@SaltyDutchman he’s also stupidly bias
@@stubbornspaceman7201 Yeah he really is completely biased against Space Marines
all this video just to say "Halo plasma guns are more reliable and consistent but 40k plasma can deal more damage"
in the 1st Halo HellJumper comic there is scene where someone used a charged plasma pistol shot to blow or melt a whole big enough for two humans to escape forunner lasers. I mean The covenant whole socioety is about breaking into forunner ruins and reverse engineering it so It kind of makes sense their tech would be effective for that. Now forunner Material is a miricle metal however the Bungie ARG called “I LOVE BEES” lists Osmium as a element used in forunner alloy. What’s the melting point of Osmium? Absolute low ball figure for a plasma pistol charge shot that blasted a two person sized whole in Ancient Alien Mystery Alloy? 3306 kelvin! Right on the money I think of a temperature of the surface of a red dwarf sun. Now Covenant Plasma/ infantry weaponry comes in much much stronger forms then the plasma pistol. *caugh* *Caugh* beam rifle, concussion rifle (the blasts that can throw warthogs around like tumble weeds), fuel rod cannon, Hunter weapons, energy swords, gravity hammers, plasma grenades, and more… oh also the covenant has Bolters comparable to their tech called Brute Shots and Scrap Canons and Hydras; all of which take more shots to kill then the convents toys. As you know Bolters can kill 40K Space Marines so most covent weapons can kill space marines. And realy doesn’t that make sense? A faction that can make Bolters instead prefer their Plasma (probably because their plasma weapons are better) take Days before needing to reload, has aim assist, more damaging, and EMPs upon every hit. Gosh I hope the enemies of the covenant don’t rely on vehicles, electronic Mech Suits/machine organ transplants or substitutes, and electronic weapons like lazguns and dangerous Empire Plasma ;) that would be catastrophic.
Neither it says 40k plasma is unreliable and definitely does less damage to the weapons of the covenant and the Covenant has more of it.
@@wastelesslearning1245 Imperial plasma pistols can eradicate gun emplacements in one, regular shot. (Search up "Astartes Part 3" and go to 1:30 in the vid)
now thats no way to skin a cat
It's the same gun except for and Warhammer all the safeties and safety systems inside the digital part of the gun has been turned off basically you get more bang for your buck but all the safeties are off so the thing might explode in your hand and kill you and destroy a small continent.
Next
Doom plasma weapons
Been looking into it. It's difficult to quantify Argent.
@@MarcusVance i thought so
All i know that the plasma in doom is badass
Thanks anyway
I would take a weapon that doesn't blow up in my hands, thanks.
I like Both!
You should check out the RC series
They said "as hot as a small sun." I think if they were counting dwarf stars they would said dwarf stars.
To counter you as to the "smallest stars" bit - pulsars and neutron stars are some of the smallest stars in existence, or at least leftovers of them. They are also *_really damn hot._* With a 7 billion year old pulsar being about *_35 times as hot as our sun_* and neutron stars being about 1.8 million degrees Fahrenheit on average. So, because they are the smallest actual stars, by your logic, we can say that Warhammer 40K plasma is as at least as hot as 199,500 degrees Fahrenheit up to potentially 1.8 million degrees Fahrenheit. I mean, they *_are_* literally a small sun, the smallest actually. With both (pulsars are just neutron stars that emit radiation out of their poles) being around 12.5 miles in diameter on average.
Further damning Halo plasma weaponry: What is it usually used against? Titanium alloys of the UNSC. With SPARTANs in MJOLNIR actually able to take a few hits with no energy shield up. And non-heavy weapons plasma weaponry not doing a great deal to armored vehicles. Not that impressive sounding to me.
Meanwhile, what is plasma used against a lot in Warhammer 40K? Um, ceramite and adamantium, mystery fantasy metals, although we know ceramite is a ceramic composite that is *_very_* good as dissipating heat and adamantium is the strongest material that even DAoT humanity could develop. And what do normal handheld plasma weapons do to these materials? Well, against Space Marine armor... it turns it into slag. Against armor vehicles, it turns parts that were hit into slag. I dunno, when a guy with a plasma pistol in Warhammer 40K can start melting tank armor and a plasma pistol in Halo... doesn't... I'd have to say one is clearly more powerful than the other.
The "40k plasma hurts them more, so must be more powerful" perspective does make sense on the surface.
But when we look deeper, the UNSC uses a refractive coating on all of their armor that dissapates heat. It is important to note that the UNSC uses bleeding edge technology, and the main enemy they fight uses these energy weapons. So logically they'd come up with decent countermeasures to the main things they face.
Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma. That is two reasons why they wouldn't advance technology or change anything to protect from it better.
And while I do lean heavily on the "as hot as a small sun" aspect... do you REALLY think that these people who think recoil exists because the spirit in their gun is mad at their enemy would know how to accurately measure temperature?
@@MarcusVance
"But when we look deeper, the UNSC uses a refractive coating on all of their armor that dissapates heat."
...You mean the same tiles on their ships that is great at radiating away internal heat from the ship, but is known to cook the ship and its occupants when heated from the outside? Installation00 has done videos on the lore behind it, and in-universe, it didn't work that well when faced with the opposite of what it was designed to do.
Also, the Imperium has ceramite, which is also designed to dissipate heat whether from internal or external heating.
"It is important to note that the UNSC uses bleeding edge technology, and the main enemy they fight uses these energy weapons. So logically they'd come up with decent countermeasures to the main things they face."
Many of the ships the UNSC pitted against the Covenant were made either before first contact with the Covenant on Harvest or before it was clear that the Covenant were an existential threat to the entire human species.
And the way they they did "counter" it? Not with radiating materials, but with just more titanium armor. Take the Epoch-class heavy carrier. In universe, it started out with 1.5 meters of Titanium A1 armor. Later, at the height of the war, newer Epoch-classes had double the armor - 3 meters - of improved Titanium A2 armor. So not only did the upgrade the quality of the armor, they doubled it.
Part of the problem in Halo's universe was just attrition and damage accumulating during combat. Basically any UNSC ship could eat a Covenant plasma torpedo and keep trucking. (Which... should say something. If you fire a *_torpedo_* that explodes in a gigantic ball of fire and even against frigates it's just a minor convenience... I dunno, seems like it should do more than that.) The problem is that each hit boils away armor and heats it up. And with thousands of plasma bolts or all those plasma torpedoes flying around, all you need is some concentrated fire for your ship to be combat ineffective. Then the Covenant take glee in targeting a doomed ship and rake it with even most plasma until either the crew is boiled alive or something heats up and explodes.
Meanwhile, in Warhammer 40K, a single plasma torpedo can spell the doom of any species warship, even capital ships. And that's not for lack of armor or protection.
My guess? The problem with Covenant plasma torpedoes and the like is the plasma just detonates on contact aaaand... that's it. The surface level is vaporized, but otherwise nothing much. Whereas with things like plasma torpedoes out of Warhammer 40K - they are designed to use plasma to burn into the ship and then vent the plasma inside of it. So if your armor can be melted away by the plasma, and it certainly can be, it won't last long.
"Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma."
*_But that doesn't mean as much as you think it means._* Is the Imperium a backwards religiously dogmatic technologically regressed civilization? Yes. They are also religiously dogmatic and regressed from a society that developed weapons that could transport enemy ships from one of the most advanced space-fairing civilizations in 40K back in time so that the ship, guided by a person that could see the future and "dodged" the "first" shot would be brought back time time by mere milliseconds to be hit (see: the Speranza). They possess technology that would make the Federation out of Star Trek look like cavemen smacking stones together. So when you fall from grace which is *_that high_* and you still have some of the shiny toys from that era to play with, you're still on better terms than the Humans from Halo... which are just only now putting effective energy shielding on ships. Wow. Good work, Halo-Humanity. That's something even the Imperium and Adeptus Mechanicus that thinks you need to light incense and rub sacred oils and recite a pray to untighten a screw can do and have done for over 10,000 years. After an apocalypse. That had it's own apocalypse.
I mean, sure it took Halo-Humanity basically a quarter of a decade of having all the alien tech you could go through and *_several hundred billion_* humans dying and you really only got it done just as the war was ending... But... Y'know... The thought counts.
"And while I do lean heavily on the 'as hot as a small sun' aspect... do you REALLY think that these people who think recoil exists because the spirit in their gun is mad at their enemy would know how to accurately measure temperature?"
Honestly? Yeah, probably. They do have auger arrays made and designed by DAoT humans that can tell them that. And "machine spirits" is a convenient excuse whenever something goes wrong.
@@MarcusVance "Meanwhile the Imperium of Man is a technologically regressed religious cult that rarely faces enemies with plasma"
They face plasma (Tau) and a lot more powerful weapons (Aeldari and Necrons).
Imperial plasma gets even hotter when you get quotes that say they are comparable "in appearance and temperature to solar flares".
Solar flares easily exceed 10 million centigrade btw.
but what about meltas? hmmmm
Yeah, if you get hit by a plasma weapon in 40 K instantly vaporize
Compare halo to 40k plasma, would be like comparing a pistol
To RPG
They are comparing a pistol to a rpg and that pistol that every covenant soldier uses as a sidearm can overcharge to vaporize up to 3 people in a single shot.
@@Ais-pd6yl so it turn into shotgun wow that great the 40 K version can turn into a grenade
It is still the smallest plasma weaponry of Halo
Has everyone forget that dwarf star aren't even stars, if I said that 40k plasma weapons were as hot as a neutron star that would be a more valid argument because then I would be taking about an actual star that can fuse elements at it's core and not a spicy gas giant.
Please do a video on the sword of heroes from Kung-Fu Panda. It's so stupid it hurtss
Are they really still using Fahrenheit in the year 40,000?
You forgot to mention that 40K plasma weapons explode when they hit the target, and they only over heat when fired too much without being allowed to cool down, or the charged shot is allowed to charge for too long. Yes, the Covenant have far more stable plasma weapons, but stable does not always mean superior. 40K plasma weapons come in a variety of shapes and sizes, as do the plasma weapons in Halo, but there is a greater variety of plasma weapons in 40K, and they don't overheat as easily as the plasma weapons in Halo do.
But if they do overheat , you and anyone around you is seriously fucked. Not to mention how the Halo guns in lore are just better.
@@Kroq-gar Actually, they are not. Not by a long shot.
@@Kroq-gar Also yes, an overheated plasma weapon tends to explode. When we get into slug throwers, 40K has Halo beat easily.
@@Boxanadu In game when you get shot by grunt you just move through it and snap his neck. In the lore when you get shot, your torso melts off
Edit: and this is a pistol. Something that all grunts can just grab and go
Shhhh...
They said that it’s as hot as a small Sun but idk if that refers to the surface or the core
What about melta guns
The number of things that are “as hot as the sun” is actually a very large list. So telling me that warhammer 40k plasma weapons are as hot as the sun or a small sun, that’s not really that impressive
Have you a twin brother?
I'm not sure about this one chief
I'm just reporting the numbers
That 5,000° is the average, like I said.
@@MarcusVance There are quotes where you can get millions of degrees Celsius for 40k plasma.
And sun star quotes are inherently going to be unreliable since stars have different temperatures based on what area you’re looking at.
But I can’t strap a max charge halo plasma gun to a guardsman and tell him to charge an enemy bunker for the emperor.
Basically a torch can rivalize is heat with surface of the sun
Once again, 40k isn't as impressive as fans make it out to be.
It's still cool, but why do they need to go to extremes?
40k isn't the most OP an eXtreme universe. It's the one with the most propaganda that the fans take at face value, despite the devs, authors, and editors saying you shouldn't.
*"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."*
- [Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW](mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/jumping-the-fence/)
*"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."*
- [Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW](www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/) (in the comments)
*"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."*
- [Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series](facebook.com/notes/the-lord-inquisitor/interview-with-aaron-dembski-bowden/493311764034081/)
*"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. If it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it."*
- [Marc Gascogne, chief editor Black Library](aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/heresy-black-legion-chatter-in-the-mail-this-morning/)
@@KT-pv3kl Judging from the quotes he just dropped, it seems like GW thinks it's less impressive than you do.
@@MarcusVance That last one is really good.
@@MarcusVance Does this debunk every 40k fan?
@@KT-pv3kl You clearly doesn't know what the Lensman Saga is
WH40k has always given me “racist white people in space vibes.” Not sure if that’s accurate, but considering how much the art reminds me of Nazi stuff, I’ve never bothered to find out.
What exactly reminds you of nazi things? The only thing that comes to mind is the commisars, and they are more russian than germans.
Or the kriegs, they are ww1 germans wich is not Nazi.
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 Totally a me thing btw, as far as I know. Everything about humans sounds like nazi-like stuff, which admittedly makes sense considering the space war situations (if we suddenly were at war with aliens I can see our society becoming much more fascist & militaristic & so on), but I also only ever have seen white humans. So it makes me feel like it was created from a “humans are white, all other humans are going to be aliens” perspective, which is off putting.
Halo as a contrast, is very similar, but the human cast I’ve seen is much more diverse, and again, I can totally see us becoming more nazi-like in some ways as a result of alien invasion and/or space conquest. Having a well indoctrinated population just makes managing a space civilization easier.
@@kemsatofficial i'm not sure how much wh40k you consume but i, as a person who read and watch the lorr and novels, can asure you that the diversity in human colors is there, and in a galaxy at war, where the imperium fight for survival the racism between humans is the last thing that you are going to see(unless they have demonic like mutations, in wich case i think a little of hate and fear is justified)
Personally one of my favorites characters is Ahzek Ahriman, a space marine who looks like a beatifull egipcian demi god.
@@jairomelgarejoreyes1609 I don’t consume it really, just see it come up all the time with other nerdy stuff. What I’ve heard hasn’t really appealed much to me. I feel like it’s influenced a lot of stuff though, so I’m getting my fix through those other IPs. Good to know I was wrong though.
@@kemsatofficial good for you
Tau has better weapons than Covenant
To anyone who says that Halo is better:
*YOU HERETIC!*
So it's very likely a elite with an energy sword could fold an Astartes.
In the right circumstances yeah. In a stealth situation, using Silent Shadow warriors, it don't see why they couldn't stealth kill an Astartes with an Energy Sword to the neck.
@@TheTGRproductions Motion trackers on space marine helmets are rather advanced, and Space Marines also have *insane hearing* to the point they can, for example, in one short story, hear ork war drums from a couple kilometers away. So hearing the elites walking wouldn't be to hard, since covenant sound dampeners don't actually completely erase the sound if I remember correctly.
And their isn't even a guarantee that an energy sword would go through a space marine if that space marine had, say, an Iron Halo, which gives them a *very* powerful shield.
@@r.cdahuman7682 so do Spartans and silent shadows merc them all the time.
@@11jerans despite what Marcus says, space Marines are not comparable to Spartans. Space Marines are Spartans dialed up. Spartans do not have hearing like space Marines for example. The only thing Spartans really have on space Marines is spartan time.
Space Marines have also consistently been able to completely crush heads in their bare hands. Without armor on. Not to mention space Marines wounds clot and seal almost instantly. Space Marines have gotten cuts and the wound is completely sealed and healed within 15 minutes. They have gotten fully stabbed and the bleeding stops in minutes.
@@r.cdahuman7682 except that they very much are comparable, in fact, it is quite clear based on evidence provided in the lore that Spartans have senses that are often times, including those of hearing, are equivalent to space marines, and their reaction times are significantly better than those of space marines.
Who has a better plasma weapon
Me: megaman