Jordan Chiles & Ana Barbosu, Sabrina Voinea & Rebeca Andrade PARIS In-depth analyses FLOOR UPDATED!
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Olympic gymnast Lance Ringnald gives in-depth ananlyses of Jordan Chiles, Ana Barbosu, Sabrina Voinea and Rebeca Andrade with Updated Paris footage, side by side comparisons and split screen insights. The fight for Bronze. Who do you think has earned it?
I am American, which I mention it because I am not biased or nationally-blinded. I watched that on live TV (mute sound) when I was at the gym on that day and those were exactly the same conclusions I reached. When I expressed my opinion the day before here on RUclips, I received a lot of backlash from losers who know nothing about this sport, when my family has been involved in training in artistic gymnastics and rhythmic gymnastics for decades and I have attended literally hundreds of competitions in my life to support our girls. What's fair, it's fair. Period. Let's forget about nationalities and skin colors. All these girls have worked really hard to be where they are, but the D-day was that day and some performed better than the others.
There are several elements that add or deduct points, despite these points are not "officially" broken down in the final score: making a perfect diagonal, starting and ending next to the border (not touching it), getting as closest as possible to the corners, clean landing vs stepping out after, balance, graciousness, synch with music, etc; elements that implicate risk and technique (and some people are not willing to understand), and Chiles did not execute well. So, yes, her score was raised based on difficulty, but it was not correctly downgraded according to execution. On the contrary, Ana, mounts with a roundoff whip back into a tuck full in a perfect landing, flipping backwards, and not touching the floor with her hands. She went 12.2 feet high high speed, spinning in the air and in the second turn, she connected her landing with another jump. Sabrina, in my opinion, was even superior because she did not step out, her diagonals and angles were more perfect, her height even higher (12.4 ft), split her legs in the air more than 180 degrees, and her landings more accurate reaching almost the corner in a semi-perfect diagonal. In a perfect control of her body and routine, she stepped so close to the corner, not looking at it, that this should have been considered 'high risk' and, therefore, granted her additional points instead of penalizing her (so huge mistake by the judges I believe it was intentional). Not even Rebecca, winning the gold medal, was ever so close to the corner. In summary, she was even better than Biles, who stepped out twice with two feet out of the square. When you are competing for a gold medal, that cannot be forgotten despite of difficulty; execution is the most important element.
Beautifully explained. I cannot agree more.
Excellent explanation! I am not a person who practised the sport but I have watched live, re-watched and learned the rules. Ana's and Sabrina's executions were clearly cleaner and even though Jordan's E score was lower, I don't believe that her execution is accurately reflected in the score. Seeing the comparison to the Gogean skill that was later added, it is clear to me that her twist was not 1.5. When she saw the initial score she was ok with it because likely she knew best that this was what she deserved. At the end of the day, sadly, the IOC plays with the athlete's mental health, all 3 of them. Sabrina was absolutely devastated, as well as Ana, and now Jordan. It's gut-wrenching to work so hard to get there, to do your best, to know what the score you deserve is, and to have someone take that away from you. It's not even about the bronze medal, it's just that they all deserved to be fairly evaluated.
Thank you for this detailed explanation. Is it right that Sabrina performed four tumbling passes while Chiles performed only three, made landing mistakes, and looked slow? I'm just trying to understand how her score could be comparable with Sabrina's score even if Sabrina stepped out.
Nice breakdown! But can you shed some light on why Sabrina was penalized after all?
I agree with all but your thoughts on Voinea- she had the worst technique/ execution of those you’ve mentioned: undercutting all her backhandsprings, visible leg separation with bent legs in her layouts, staggered legs in her tuck full , turning leaps/ jumps (popa, gogean) not completed, easy execution deduction for flexed feet in tucked double back last pass which should have been relatively easy for her at her level (the Chinese gymnasts have beautifully pointed feet in their tumbling so it can be done), artistry deductions (part of execution score) eg for not using enough variety of levels and full range of body movements eg full body flexion /extension/ sideways bending..
I personally believe Sabrina is the well deserved Bronze winner. It’s really not fair for her to received the penalty.
My feel the same
That OOB penalty is crap. The line judges need to be I a different position, preferably closer to the floor. The whole situation is a hot mess at this point.
It may have been an overtime
@@rikewie5930it was not
Pretty sure the yellow flag was caught on video, showing it was an OOB call @@rikewie5930
Rebeca ❤
Watching this make you wonder what a travesty it was putting Chiles third... she was clearly 5th best and of course it's debatable if Voinea or Barbosu should have gotten third,.. I'm inclined to give it to Voinea but omg were the judges either corrupt or blind.
Not the judges, the judges had Chiles 5th at least (although they messed it with Sabrina). It was Donatella Sacchi (the superior jury) who accepted the inquiry without even looking at the video, just by remembering how Jordan did the full tour jeté by watching her. Talk about the definition of corruption, gymnasts are “fighting” for a bronze Olympic medal and she disagrees with the decision of the panel of D-score judges by memory without getting the help of the video :FACEPALM
@@leykimayri Coruptella Sacchi is a disgrace
If chiles turn was not completed she should have stayed at 5th place..
Not fair at all to put her in third place...
What lies she had more technical difficulties and was clearly under scored in favor of the Romanian. You think it should of ended before Jordan took her turn
@@JescaML She wasn’t underscored. If you have no idea about gymnastics, don’t bother wasting time embarrassing yourself by proving your complete ignorance and stupidity
Chiles' turn was NOT completed therefore shouldn't have counted.
I agree, clearly wasn't a full turn.
I agree. Now that I see the other gymnasts perform this skill it looks like she rotates less then the other girls. I know they do it so fast it’s maybe hard to tell but this judges are professional, in this sport for so many years. Mistakes like this should not happen and we need a system where stepping out of bounds it’s AI camera monitored.
Rebeca was worse. 😬 She clearly did a 3/4 turn when she landed.
That's an execution score and judges discretion, which apparently swinging one's leg way out of bounds wasn't a good look for the judges
@@jevonkit wasn't scored, though.
Sabrina deserved the bronze; she did not go out of bounds. I doubt the judges checked all angles recorded from the cameras.
Apparently the line judges only had access to what was given to them by the technology provider and it was way poorer quality /limited view compared to what we as tv audience got access to. (Check out the latest gymnastic podcast)
Nadia gave her one of her gold medals from Montreal
This analysis only highlights the fact that the better execution on the same movements were made by Rebeca. Rebeca nailed, she told a story with her rotine. They did not credited the gogean of Rebeca by the way. (I don't think Chiles was the 3rd best, but the judges should take full accountability and should not change Chiles medal. I want someone to just punish this judges. Their decision is very obscure !!!).
Out of the 3 gymnasts only Ana did the full spin for the gogean, play the video in slow speed and you will see, so neither Rebecca or Jordan should have been credited for it.
@@OPTribe Where in her comment she implied that Rebeca was credited in her gogean? Read again.
@@sanasnostraightfringe3117 Of course I read it, she said Rebecca did not get credited for the Gogean and I was making a point that since she didnt complete the exercise of course she shouldn't get credit for it ... what is that u didn't understand???
@@OPTribe And she still won, cause her routine was very well executed. To me, it seems americans are bitter and want Reb's win to feel small. Chiles is sooo far away, even with some similar stuff.
@@renatat.6486 Indeed!
I'm just a fan, not an expert - as I watched it all live I thought Voinea had the best routine. But that was just a fan perspective, not a scoring perspective. All three have been dragged through the mud now, as well as Nadia, Jordan's coach, Cecile, and others. Bad situation all around.
There are many people that believe as you do that Sabrina did a great routine and was underscored. I am a little confused myself and when I watch her routine it is hard for me to understand why she is not on the medal stand - and I am a gymnast hahah. It was a crazy finals and it is so unfortunate all the drama that has surrounded the event. The controversy has overshadowed the athletes and gymnastics. Voinea did have a great routine though and I really like her double layout punch front. Rock on and my best.
Super annoying that the official organizations have not explained the situation with Sabrina and instead just report that all further inquiries were denied… but here’s my theory! Sabrina had a higher start value coming in and the judges downgraded something. Romania puts in a difficulty inquiry about that - rejected. They get the OOB penalty and either didn’t protest it or it was determined they’re not allowed to do inquiry because it’s the execution score.
Then there’s the whole 1 minute 4 seconds of it all and the back and forth about taking medals back. Just awful. So I think the right thing to do is award 3 bronze medals because isn’t there past precedent that medals haven’t been revoked except for doping or other foul play?
Don’t misinform. Sabrina’s routine was different than the previous days at the Olympics but indeed this routine was supposed to be +0.1 higher. Her coach sent an inquiry for that but did NOT ask the ND to be checked as well and that was a mistake. OOB is NOT an execution deduction but it belongs to a different category of deductions called Neutral Deductions and yes, you can send an inquiry on that. However, we actually do NOT know the reason for the ND, possibly it’s for the OOB, but she may have also got it for extended routine since her music lasts exactly 90 seconds and even if she moved the slightest after that she may have gotten the deduction for that reason, or she may have gotten it because she was all full in duct tape for inappropriate attire (however this also just proves that the inquiry system needs to be reformed since the coach also has no idea the reason for the ND in order to ask correctly for it to be rechecked since the coach needs to specify which skills/neutral deductions that the gymnast did need to be checked, :facepalm). Fact is though that Sabrina’s coach didn’t ask for any type of ND to be checked, which proves for another time that her coach/mum has no idea about the code of Points.
Three medals can’t be awarded because all three gymnasts have three different scores and this wasn’t IOC’s mistakes but the FIG’s and the coaches’ (both Sabrina’s and Jordan’s). It’s not a backyard competition to get participation trophies, this is the OLYMPICS
@@ExitSiign you and I are really on the same page. I believe many people feel this way. The situation has gotten so murky and complicated, the only remedy that comes close to satisfactory in my view is given them all metals. By no fault of the athletes is this happening.your thoughts are insightful, and I feel the same way. I think we’re all still waiting to see how it ultimately finishes and plays out, but would feel better if they all got medals at this point. All my best.
@@leykimayri Just sharing fan theories/opinions, which is totally fine. What is not okay is the insane level of vitriol online about the gymnasts who did nothing wrong as they reacted real time to a heated situation. I thought I read somewhere that they received notice that the penalty was for out of bounds, but I don’t think that information is officially publicly available.
@@ExitSiign No, the gymnasts are not to be blamed, but you also cannot blame 100% the judges since they score on real time and they are humans and humans make mistakes. That is the reason why inquiries exist, to try to be a little bit objective in a subjective system of scoring. The coaches also messed it up completely here, both had no idea about the rules and regulations. For instance you can hear in the video Cecile telling Simone "he didn't inquire" and I hope she didn't mean that Laurent didn't inquire because only Cecile had the right to inquire for Jordan's routine, while Laurent only for Simone's routine although both train both gymnasts basically (on the other hand what else would she mean about whom didn't inquire about what? What I believe happened is that Laurent tried to inquire for Jordan, not knowing that only Cecile had the right to do so, and they started discussing then about whether to actually inquire or not, wasting time, you can see Cecile talking to him and standing next to Jordan for like almost 40 seconds, and then when Cecile decided to inquire it was a late one). Cecile should have inquired the moment she saw Jordan's score and it was less by -0.1 in difficulty, whether she agreed or not with that decision, Jordan had nothing to lose if she would lose the inquire, but had a bronze medal to win if that would get accepted.... I hate it when people don't know their jobs, none of the three gymnasts did anything wrong here and all three were affected from other people's mistakes....
I don't know about the OOB deduction, I haven't heard what you said and I can't confirm if they told the Romanians what was the exact reason for the NB deduction. However Nadia was posting videos on that, showing Sabrina. was not OOB, so maybe the Romanians got indeed an unofficial inside info/clarification about the NB Sabrina got.
@@leykimayri Thank you for your message. Respectfully, I dont see any point where I mis-inform. I analyzed the routine done in finals. The previous days routines construction don't matter. From what I have gathered and as you have said, it is still unclear about Sabrinas one tenth. At this point it seems only reasonable they would explain and clear that point up easily as many are unclear about this. I agree that music length is set so overtime seems not-probable.
The reason, in this unique situation, to maybe consider given three medals may be the following perspective. As you said, they all received three different scores. The complexity of the protest and this controversy have thrown doubt on the accuracy and quality of those scores for each routine to the point it has become a controversy. Many people are still unsure of many aspects of this controversy as it still seems unclear on a few points. Its just my opinion and if people feel differently I respect that and I dont have a perfect suggestion to a resolution. I do think it is unfortunate that it has reached the level it has. Thanks again for your thoughts and message and my best.
Thanks for this. Your comparisons of the tour jeté or whatever that's called which was the reason for Chile's inquiry truly shows how even after the inquiry, Chile's difficulty should not have changed. She very clearly did not complete the skill. Ana Maria's performance of that skill is much better and truly completed, maybe even better than Rebecca's. So the real issue is not really the inquiry itself or the time it was submitted, but why Chile's score increased after the inquiry when it should not have been.
@eiraremejeene OH my God, You are totally correct..Jordan did not complete that jump and her Difficulty score should NEVER have been changed and rightfully she should have remained in 5th place. It is a complete travesty and folly that she was on that podium as the "bronze" medalist..let every judge see a slow motion video of Jordan's jump and they will see she did not complete the jump and should remain in 5th place..how hard is it for all judges to look carefully at the video which is what the judges should have done..whoever gave Jordan credit when it was not deserved should be FIRED.
Because she's from the US and whoever thinks soft power doesn't matter in sports is simply naive
Chiles is a good gymnast but sabrina and barbosu are much better.The problem of gymnatics is the subjectivity in the eyes of the judges. Some countries ang gymnasts are measured lower or higher thsn they deserve. I don.t want to name any country or gymnasts but objectively both exercises by the two romanian are clearly superior to chiles whether or not judges see it
@mateofesrivlaes7576 So agree..they both had better artistry and execution. Chiles should have remained at 5th place as video clearly shows she did NOT complete the jump that they appealed. She did not complete this jump at team final nor at the Olympic trials, so in all probability, the same would probably follow for floor exercise and the video clearly confirms she did not complete the jump..hence, she should NOT have been on that podium with a bronze medal..completely unjust that she was.
sabrina should have taken the bronze
There needs to be more content creators like you. I love when you post new videos. Gymnastics positivity makes my life a little bit more beautiful.
@@Catapultout that is really kind. So glad you like my videos and I really enjoy making them. What a great perspective you have. Gymnastics makes my life a little more beautiful also. Rock on.
bronze belongs to Sabrina
Juizes nao validaram o Gorgean da Rebeca.
O único bom é da Barboso
Rebeca's Gogean upgrade was terrible, should have went for the double wolf or stuck with the split 1/1
I think the Punctuation Code is wrong. He discounts more during the jumps than in the finish. Rebecca deserved the gold, Sabrina should have been silver and Ana Barbosu the bronze. Simone was disastrous. She didn't deserve the podium, but she always benefits from this unfair code.
It's really sad that all 3 of these gymnasts have to go through this due to judge mistakes. Imo, Sabrina is the true deserving gymnast of the bronze. If we look at it objectively, she should've never gotten penalized and her coach definitely should've put in an inquiry for that.
Ana is more talented than Jordan...
Not really. Jordan was 4th AA in qualifications and got 2pc
@@ansonpang But in the final,Ana was the 3th vote ...The stile and the routine are more elegant and fluid...Roumainan school 😉
Sabrina was better than Ana. If one of them were to get the medal it should be Sabrina, i keep hearing/seeing Ana when Sabrina to me deserves it. Her routine and the way she executed the moves were better.
I'm glad they finally removed Jordan from the official podium. She has charisma, her tumbling is OK, but I'm tired of seing her sleazy choreo. Also, I hope Sabrina hires a good choreographer asap. Her lack of artistry is her downfall. Simone is another one... Pls, be more fluid. The woman is stiff as a board.
@WhiteBear2024 Agree, Jordan on the podium with her tongue stuck out and almost licking the bronze medal in a group picture was really pretty classless on the Olympic stage.
In their gym Bilis and Jordan never tried to point their feet. And the choreographer they hired was crap. I don't think Chiles' tumbling was OK in the floor final. And, yes, Voinea has no choreo, just a few steps.
Rebeca Andrade não vai competir no solo, Paris foi a última competição desta atleta no solo, é uma pena.
I am sorry to hear that also. I wonder if winning in Paris will make her rethink competing on floor. I dont think it will. She is trying to take care of her body and she has had surgeries on her knees so I think she is being careful and smarter. Thanks for the information and my best.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gpvery likely she won't continue with floor. She's been saying it over and over. She feels too much pain in her legs. During the all around, we could actually hear her talk to her coach about the discomfort. She is most likely going to focus on bars and vault.
Many of us are frustrated that the officials haven’t made a public statement with details about especially Sabrina’s “mysterious” deduction:
And sadly have the feeling that we could maybe be a little too optimistically naive if we chose to sit and wait patiently 8:37 for the officials to come forward in a few days and present a detailed report of what happened.
My prediction is that - like so many big corporations- if they make a very short description in which not details are revealed - chances are that
- one of the more influential judges made a clear mistake - and that they won’t reveal this to the public
- someone corrupt from within the judging panel or somebody influential person tried to manipulate the score and succeeded. And be a of the higher status they would say as little as possible and dismiss everything to cover up for it all.
- that is not Gymnastics hasn’t dealt with before during various Olympic Games in the past 🤓
Yes, I think many would like to hear clearly what the process was from the people that created the process. Hopefully they will soon as it is frustrating not having solid infomation. My best
I think there was obvious under scoring regarding Nadia commanci and Elana Davidova in the moscow olympics,
@@gilliangroundsell665 that’s interesting. The code was more subjective back then. I missed the 10 oh system, but it did leave more room for judges, influence and interpretation. I don’t know yet because I have not seen those routines for a very long time, but I will check them out. It would not surprise me if there was favoritism at that time. Maybe I am wrong, but I like to think the new judging system, even with its flaws and extreme emphasis on difficult, does a better job of ranking the athletes. Again, humans judging other human beings will always be a bit subjective. I don’t want AI to take over judging because creativity and style is hard to measure outside human perception. Maybe AI could tabulate correct angles and things that are very easy to measure. I believe that’s a huge can of worms and I really hope we’re not there yet. Ha ha ha. My best.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp yeah this resulted with Elena winning the all round olympic title. Nadias coach Bella was furious with her under scoring. I think it was favouritism as it was in Russia and Elena was Russian
@@gilliangroundsell665 very possible back then. Cold War, more bias. Russia was even more aggressive, aggressive to win in that era. I don’t feel like it’s as extreme these days. There’s always subjectivity, but back at that time it would be ridiculous sometimes I can remember a few specific times of competitions I was in. I like to believe it’s much better and I do believe it is better. Never perfect, just better. I have been on both sides before where I got the benefit of the doubt and I got judged harshly.
Hopefully, by the next olympic games they have this worked out. I forsee mayhem in the future if every coach/athlete decides to appeal their score/performance. I feel for all three. Chiles did receive a medal (gold) in another event and Barbosu the bronze. We keep forgetting about the artistic part of it. The announcer - when I caught Barbosu's routine even commented on how artistic her performance was. We still go back to the jumps and flips ....and forget about the artistic part of gymnastics. Hope to see you all in the future games:)
Can I be the brave one and finally say that Biles performance was a disaster and did not deserve a medal at all. If her name and look was different she wouldn't have gotten even close. That was clearly a gift based on her name alone.
There are many people that are a bit confused why Simone scores so high. The reason is her difficulty level is so high, much farther above any other athlete on floor, that it gives her a cushion with execution and other deductions. The code of points is designed and it works really well on her behalf. They will change the rules After every Olympics, but Simone difficulty is recognizably much higher than everybody else and this is how she finishes so high out of bounds errors
Justice for Sabrina!!!
Rebeca Rainha do Brasil
Rebeca Gogean was downgraded. Jordan was too, initially, fairly judged. Barbosu and Biles completed the skill. It makes not sense to credit that involves turns when the skill that was not completed. Its like lets credit the skill, and deduct because a quarter turn was missing... Nonsense. Deductions should be form, height, etc. If you analyse Biles and Barbosu you see they even give more, not to leave any doubt... Another thing, the landing is right when the feet touch the floor, not a second later when they kind of slide to cover. Your snapshot was even a little bit late. Jordan deduction was completely fair...
I don't think they should change the score. But regardless, the biggest issue was the out of bounds of Sabrina... The real bronce winner. And the real gymnast being robbed here. :(
Biles did NAWT complete that gogean like a full 1/4 of it was NOT there
Why u don’t do Simone biles videos?
Love your channel, love the gymnastics of all floor finalists; however, I feel the controversy solely lies with “final decisions “ and changes and new “final decisions “- 😮😮…..the process and procedures need tweeking, not the gymnasts routines. Thank you.
@@queeniebee7736 thank you. I completely agree. The gymnasts did their job and the controversial mistakes were not made by the gymnast. They definitely need to adjust the processes and protocols so that this may not happen again. It seems a bit extreme how it rolled out of control. Thanks and all my best.
Ana stepped out of bounds that is clear not Sabrina, She did not deserve that Medal. I understand that Romania wanted the win but it should not just be given to them, anyone with eyes can see the mistakes and deductions, The leg separations the bent knees even Her wolf turn was mediocre. Did She perform beautiful Yes! Did She tumble well Yes!! But she stepped out of bounds and had mistakes, Im sorry She is not the rightful owner of that Medal.
Can we please ban the double pike dismount? 😅
THANK YPU
I second that :))
Honestly did a gymnast ever hit properly a Gogean except Giulia or Gabby ?
The judges don’t need to release a statement about Sabrina I’m sorry guys this is because they didn’t inquired to the Outabounds call but you can do they only inquired about the difficulty
Secondo me per per loro doveva vincere America.e una vergonia.Lamerica a imparato la ginnastica dalla Romania..
Once Ana got the flag, that should have been it. Flag=medal. The US coach should have petitioned for a second medal later. Also, Ana should not have been given the flag in the first place until the protest period was over. Once she had it, though, she should have gotten the bronze.
Jordan’s showboating on the podium and bragging about the “all black podium” didn’t help. I believe this was coming from her, more than Simone, who had been on many podiums and had never drawn attention to herself like that, or said anything political. People took Ana’s side, and some thought she was originally denied her bronze to make some kind of diversity statement. I don’t think that, but the idea is out there. Jordan is free to say what she wants, but I don’t think it played well with the Olympic committee. Overall, it’s a mess and three gymnasts were hurt by truly inept and probably political judging.
Yes, it is brutal to look up at your score and rank and realize you have finished 3rd and you will get the bronze, just to look up a few moments later to see you will not. I think it is important to try to avoid that kind of situation.
I agree
The biggest mistake was that they announced the "final" ranking at the microphone but didn't announce that Jordan had made an appeal. They should make it clearer so that the other gymnasts know when the final score is. The fact that the inquiry was filed late did not help and it shouldn't have been accepted. Moreover, they really need to get their stuff together, we're in 2024 and they are still using a camera above the floor so that people can see if the foot was out. They could use endless sensors, hawkeye was introduced in tennis almost 20 years ago and they can't even admit that this system doesn't work.
@@ana-mariacomorasu2798 Instant, slow motion replays, of all the performances, would solve everything.
@kimberlyarlene4094 It never should have been an all black podium as Chiles never should have been on the podium as she did NOT complete her gogean leap as the video clearly shows. She didn't complete it at team finals nor at Olympic trials and she didn't think of appealing her original score as she knew most likely that she again as in the past did not complete this leap..her coach did it feeling they had "nothing to lose" Coach even admitted that her turn was a little "sloppy " to USA Today. It was very unjust that she was on the podium.
Sabrina’s left foot was clearly out of bounds when her toes pointed downward grazing the floor. Inquiry are only made on D scores not e scores. Romanians tried to bully the judges to change their e scores
Out of Bounds is a neutral deduction, not part of the execution score. And no, she did r step out of bounds, you need to touch the floor she didn’t
@@leykimayri you can clearly see it out if bound stupid if she stepped back when she straighten up it’s out.
A injustiçada foi a Sabrina pq descontaram ponto dela por sair da linha mas isso nunca aconteceu
The reason that it is hard for you to understand is firstly because you come from a different discipline, MAG is basically a different sport than WAG and the only common things are the name and and the days of the competition. And secondly you aren’t familiar with the WAG Code of points, and it is obvious from what you say and the way you analyse. Especially considering the dance elements you fail to understand what are the deductions and why (ex the Wolf turn that you think here was done perfectly, it wasn’t), or why Jordan didn’t get credit of her effort to the full tour jeté when basically you paused the video at exactly the time she landed it proving that the initial decision not to get it credited was correct. She didn’t have a 540 degrees turn that it is demanded even only at her hips/waist, even more at her feet. Compare that with slow motion and pause to Ana’s full tour jeté and you’ll see that Ana actually has a 540 degrees turn. Or the fact that you fail to acknowledge that low chest landing is a deduction in WAG since that isn’t a deduction in MAG. In addition in WAG there are artistry deductions in both beam and floor which can reach up to -1.500 points which also don’t exist in MAG. And this is the reason why Sabrina wasn’t scored higher, not only her execution form is worse than Ana’s but in addition Sabrina gets tons of artistry deductions that Ana’s routine didn’t have them, or Rebecca’s. Especially comparing Rebecca to Sabrina you will see why Rebecca gets a better execution than Sabrina, since both are very powerful but Sabrina gets more deducted.
Maybe study a bit the artistic deductions in the CoPs they are named explicitly which they are, it will help you a lot with your analyses of WAG routines.
I think he does a really good job and by the comments so do many others. The brazen and utter lack of awareness it takes to tell an Olympic gymnast he isn’t knowledgeable makes me embarrassed for you. He knows what he’s talking about. You seem to troll every gymnastics channel. Lighten up luv, go for a walk or hug your dog or something. You seem unhappy.🤸♂️🤸🤸🏻♀️
Thanks you for your thoughts and perspective. I agree MAG is different but there are still many similarities - form and execution, angles, landings (it is also a deduction in MAG for low landings) and virtuosity. Its those characteristics I base my analyses on. You are correct, I am not that familiar with the Women's Code of points. That is why I don't reference or focus on scoring or values in my analyses unless I look it up. That is not my goal for my analyses. My goal to to help gymnasts and non gymnasts see the differences in technique and approach that each athlete applies to accomplish their skills and routines and hopefully have a higher appreciation for their skill level. For example - the wolf turn: I don't say perfect, I say nice or not nice or well balanced or she had to adjust balance. When I know something in depth, I will dive in deeper to details but when I dont, like dance requirements (as you have noticed) I generalize and focus on the differences in the athletes. As for the tour Jete, I show all three athletes and tell the people to decide for themselves. Other than Jordan, I dont know how the judges evaluated the other two athletes. I agree with you in the difference between Rebeca and Sabrina in execution as it looks apparent. You stated that Sabrina gets tons of artistry and execution deductions compared to Ana yet if you take away the one tenth that she was deducted from the alleged out of bounds that seems to have not happened, Sabrina would have been 3rd no matter how Jordan and Ana controversy played out. I say this to show that with all their different characteristics - pros and cons, they are all very close and competitive with each other and thats the judges job. Judges consider all factors and as a male gymnast, I imagine I really liked Sabrinas difficulty so in my view, i give that a lot of value. Many would care more about execution, form and style and technique and I respect that. I dont try to judges them because as you said, I dont know enough about Womens Code. Thanks for your deep insights and obvious educated perspective and all my best.
@@reneepeters3045 He is a MEN’s artistic gymnastics Olympian, not a wonam’s . Maybe bring a trampoline Olympian to score/judge the routines? Maybe a parkour gymnast since it’s also an Olympic sport now? Again, DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES. And I’ve never claimed he doesn’t do a good job. It’s the details he misses which is the reason why he wonders why Sabrina got such a low score since he does NOT know the rules of this discipline which is NOT the discipline in which he became an Olympian. Don’t waste my time again.
And you seem to have been stalking me. Me, on the other hand, I have no idea who you are 😆
PS
He’s replied, so think again 😅
@@reneepeters3045 Haha. It is always difficult to know what the tone is in a text compared to speaking with someone and in text it is much easier to misunderstand. I always default that I am speaking with a friend unless they are just really extremely mean. I dont feel there was any bad will, just maybe not knowing each others perspective. We are just people and we do our best. It was kind of you to speak up for me. All my best and I am glad you enjoy my analyses. Rock on.
@@leykimayri I recognize you as the one asshole who again and again in these gymnastics comments goes on and on and says nothing. Of course I don’t know you. What does that even mean? (Rhetorical) I hope you have the best day! Keep up the positivity!!🤸🏻♀️
I think some do not realize the difficulty that each Gymnast has, Jordans is 5.9 or 5.8, Sabrina's is out of a 6.0, Rebekah is out if 5.9 Ana is 5.8. Cleanliness and clean landing help but the difficulty score must also be taken into account. I think the judges made errors against all three. Therefore, all three deserve the bronze. Thank You.
question. Why isn't there a replay. My opinion is Jordan should have the score of 13.766, Sabrina did not step out of bounds so her score should be 13.800, Anas should be 13.700. So Sabrina should have the bronze in fairness. Why isn't there a replay for the judges to look and fix these descrepencies like they have in football replays?
Normally I am not a fan that everyone gets a medal but this situation has become so muddy and controversial with many errors in the protest process --- Its definitely seems a logical consideration to give all involved medals. Thanks for you message and all my best.
@@tinamitchell5848 Sabrina had a higher difficulty score than Andrade.? I knew Sabrina was good and interesting that NBC commentators were looking at Sabrina's routine saying something like here's your Olympic gold medalist..
@tinamitchell5848 I agree with your opinion on Sabrina as the rightful owner of the bronze. Re Jordan though , she should not have gotten credit for her gogean leap as the video showed she clearly did not complete it to have her Difficulty score upgraded and therefore she should have remained in 5th..she did not complete it fully either at team finals or Olympic trials and didn't think of contesting her original score but the coach did it without telling her ..coach even admitted per USA Today, that Jordan was a little "sloppy " on the landing but she felt they had "nothing " to lose by appealing..go figure..
Jordan deserved the bronze, his routine was cleaner. And even if she lost the medal, that podium will always be incredible and unforgettable. Rebeca, Simone and Jordan.❤❤❤
Not really. One leg in the air after landing is poor balance. She did not complete the spin on the floor. Quite a few flawed elements that other gymnasts performed well. Her balance seems off on many occasions.
Jordan is a good gymnast. But to say her routine was cleaner that day is rather a stretch.
She probably triggered out of bounds because she stuck her leg way out of bounds. Apparently, that was the judges discretion to score the way they did.
I appreciate your analysis! I will say, I may be the outlier here...but I don't think any of them should have gotten medals. It should have been Rebeca first, Simone second, and no one for third. With so much controversy, erroneous judging, and bad form on the coaches' parts (giving Ana the flag to celebrate before the scores were finalized, not petitioning Sabrina's score at the right time, etc.) there truly aren't any third place winners. Now we have the fifth place kid with the bronze. It would have made more sense to me for the CAS to say, "hey FIG...you guys are incompetent morons. Hey coaches, you need to learn and adhere to the rules. No medal will be awarded for 3rd place in this Olympics. Over the next few years, maybe work on getting the fundamentals of the competition in order, do some robust training for judges and coaches, and we'll try again in LA."
@@SongbirdCollageArts haha. I do understand your frustration and I think there are many other people that share this frustration. It’s very complex with so many mistakes at this point what do you do? The gymnast just did their gymnastics and didn’t do anything wrong. If there was only someway to take the medals away from the committees, ha ha. I don’t wish to see the at least pay the price for the committees actions. I’m curious what will develop next. Take care and all my best.
Gymnasts did their job. They deserve medals . Otherwise no competition can be held . Actually it reminds me of a situation with 4 gold medals on bars in one world champ . Judges could not make decisions so they gave 4 golds
Now do this for Aly Raisman when her score was changed and she got the bronze, compare her routine to the other competitors at the time to see if Aly really deserved the bronze or do you only analyze which gymnast deserves a medal when they are a minority like Jordan?
I have actually done an analyses of Aly on Floor and beam. I will leave a link in this message if you are interested. In here case, it was done by the math and procedure very clearly and there was not really much to contest. They followed the math and made the ruling. Its a bit more complicated with Jordan and Ana as they seemed to follow the math, make the ruling and then other issues started coming up like the time limit to make a protest. Its a bit different with time when its the last person on the event as it was for Jordan. Then the mystery tenth for Sbarina. Then it was returned back to Ana later and this was all very messy. I think that is why there is so much attention about this one. There are many points of contention. Here is the link to Aly.
ruclips.net/video/wLvDcinrcjk/видео.html
Did you miss the Karolyis SCREAMING from their seats to Aly’s coach to send an inquiry while her coach was all ignorant asking them “what for”? I’m not defending the Karolyis but they focking KNEW THE RULES AND REGULATIONS. They knew she was the last gymnast, they knew her score had been downgraded, they knew she had only one minute, and they knew she had nothing to risk but gain a medal if the inquiry was successful. And they were SCREAMING and DEMANDING from that ignorant coach of hers to send an inquiry ASAP. Does this remind you of something? Maybe another IGNORANT coach named Cecile, Jordan’s coach, who wasted her time gossiping instead of immediately sending an inquiry? Unfortunately for Jordan, there were no Karolyis in the stadium to be screaming to Cecile to stop wasting time and just send an inquiry because time is passing and she only has one minute.
So instead of beaming things on race and racism, maybe you should actually use your brain to THINK what happen and blame the people who screwed it up and failed Jordan (and Sabrina).
@@leykimayri it’s important to remember that the US claims they did everything correctly and have video evidence that the protest was put in under the minute.
It’s important to recognize that there are many things that we do not know. It’s unwise and difficult to form conclusions with incomplete information. I do believe more information will come out. It will be interesting in time to see what develops.
@@OLYMPIANTEACHES-bh6gp Romania also claimed the Americans sent the inquiry at 24 seconds too late and they also had a video which they presented. It was dismissed as evidence by CAS without watching it because the official OMEGA clock had written done the time of the inquiry which was 4 seconds late and the ruling was based on that (with Cecile’s signature on the documents of the inquiry mentioning the exact timing showing the inquiry was late). So what makes the American video valid while the Romanian invalid?
The only thing to know here is that since Jordan did nothing wrong USAG thought that worse case scenario they’d have to share a medal and they were taken by surprise when the medal was stripped away from Jordan. Remember that ad hoc CAS rules within 24 hours and in this case because they couldn’t get in touch with the Americans it took like 4 days and when they got in touch, then the whole thing then ended within hours because that is the nature of ad hoc CAS. Every country agrees in advance that all disputes will be solved by ad hoc CAS during the Olympics and CAS afterwards, otherwise you cannot participate in the Olympics. When the ruling is out and you disagree on that or have new evidence, you don’t ask CAS to reopen the case because CAS CANNOT reopen the cases. Only way is to appeal to the Supreme Swiss Court since CAS is under Swiss jurisdiction. And USAG had known that, however the average American doesn’t and they started their little act of “oh we have a video proving we weren’t late but evil CAS denies us to review the evidence, bad bad CAS!!!!!” Its all an act to cover their asses. Which is the reason I’m glad the medal was stripped, not because of Jordan or any other gymnast, but to teach them a lesson so they don’t do it again in the future. Same with Sabrina, I literally love that girl and she has so much potential but for like the past two years I’ve been bashing her routines and that mother of hers who is ruining her daughter’s career with her ignorance of the CoP, There are tons of examples and her costing her daughter the Olympic medal, after also costing her another world championship medal last year, will finally teach her a lesson hopefully. Otherwise let’s hope that girl becomes an adult and finds herself a good coach….
@@leykimayri Jordan's coaches put in their inquiry UNDER 1 minute, so they did their job on advocating for Jordan in time. Why the Romanian's were allowed to put in an appeal THE NEXT DAY and their appeal was accepted is highly suspicious and racist.
There are a few things first the Romanians are suspicious because everyone, gymnasts or not, knows that Sabrina did much better than Ana. Thats just fact, so if they would steal from their own, I definitely believe they would steal from an American. NonAmericans, please know that Jordan is AMERICAN got it. Gosh. Second, Jordan does deserve the bronze because if we're going based on the rules, because her inquiry or appeal was put in before the 1min mark, which they have indisputable proof of (a video). Third, if the judges had scored correctly in the first place, Sabrina (from Romania) would have gotten the bronze. Period. But her people actually did not appeal it in time, which is why they were rejected because the people who receive these appeals set timers and are trained not to accept after the deadline. So, going based on that logic, why would they accept Jordan's unless she was under said time. So, while sabrina had the best performance, Jordan technically won bronze. The End. MYSTERY SOLVED.
Romania made the appeal for Sabrina. It was rejected by the TAS
I’m going to defend Chiles as much as possible and feel bad for the hate she has gotten and I do believe she deserve to keep the medal after what has happened and cosndkering the decision that day was final until a few days later.
Still that decision could’ve hands down whe to either of the Romanian girls and probably was the right choice if they just held firm with the final decision before overturning it to Chiles a few minutes later.
I’m no expert in this sport as well, but we literally even see in the video Chiles stumbling multiple times. And like I said im no expert, and for me a sport like this subjective so a result is a result and I think Chiles was still solid, but the Romanian girls had a case to be better esleoclaly with execution.
Maybe it was legit how she got to third, but while Americans can say maybe there is some agenda with wrongfully removing Chiles medal, I also think it is valid and just peculiar we saw Chiles go from 5th to third for the first time I’ve seen that sport whenever it’s on the Olympics.
Also this is just probably me and not proven, but just an observation. I think One of the male gymnasts from the US team was a judge, that guy Frederick.. I’m sorry I’m not going to assume or accuse but for me that is ironic he might’ve been a judge during that event. I mean regardless if it was him or another guy on the US team, that is just weird an athelte from the same team was judging that day if that is possible?
And for me it seems the Americans seem to get excuses for “difficulty” even if there landings aren’t always comeplete. This is from a casual so I’m not familiar with the sport, but I saw the men’s and watched someone like caloy’s and his competition and I saw the male Gymasts get penalized for inconsistent landings even if they had difficult moves.
Cause another reason to defend Chiles getting a medal is I could’ve even argued her over Biles. People will hate but I don’t like giving a silver for someone falling out of bounds twice during her routine. Now to be fair she landed well with great difficulty so she probably deserved a bronze more but it’s like awarding someone for missing a shot in baskatball, but he did a great trick crossover so he still gets a point. I just feel there are leeway’s certain athletes get but that is maybe coming from me.
And I will give the respect to both Chiles and biles because I believe they deserved their medals because that was the decision of that panel that day. I just have a certain opinion that I think is valid.
None of the athletes did anything wrong and I dont believe anybody wanted things to work out the way they are. It seemed to just get way out of hand. The U.S. fight for their athletes and the Romanians fight for their athletes. The judges made a few mistakes and some people think it was an accident and others think it was on purpose. There were portests made and addressed and then from there, things seemed to get out of hand. I dont wish this for any of the athletes and it is frustrating to watch. I cant see a perfect solution. It seems considering given them all bronze might be an option in this case as there were so many mistakes and controversies that were made, it feels almost impossible to rank the athletes properly at this point. I have no answers but really hope they find a much better way to avoid things like this in the future. Its the athletes that pay the price and that is the most frustrating thing of all in my view.
Sabrina = Gold, Andrade = Silver, Ana = Bronze. Pretty clear when you just look at the routines without bias. Those are the only three that deserved a medal. you can argue their order but clearly nobody else deserved a medal besides those three. Judging is so subjective yet we are told it's so scientific = but it is not.
Sabrina gold?????
That's a fan perspective and has nothing to do with difficulty or execution. :)
@@ansonpang Yes, her difficulty was 2nd and her execution was flawless.
I almost die of laughing 😭💀@@ansonpang
Ana i Sabrina imale su bolje exerciju od Jordan to istina