Really glad to see you guys go in depth on Wildcating. The 7mm PRCW has taken the F-Class world by thunderstorm. I've made a couple for friends already. Wildcating cartridges is actually a very big part of the firearms economy. Thanks for all you guys do. I love your podcasts.
I for one am really going to look forward to this, I have dreamed about doing wildcat builds to the point I have the donor rifles already and just wanted reputable information on how to go about it. Thanks guys
When my .338Win Mag got stolen a couple years ago, I had to many .338 bullets laying around not to build/buy something that could shoot them. I knew I wanted a semiauto, but .338Fed was just a little too light for me. The solution was to buy a stainless .338 Fed upper, and rent a 338-284 reamer/gauge's from reamer rentals. Other than having to trim the neck after initial sizing of brass from .284 Win, Its been a pretty painless process. It would have been nice to have had a chamber reamer made to bring the throat a little closer for the 230 ELD-X's and 225AB's, but for the cost its been a really good experience.
There are 2 relatively easy solutions to the 25-06 dilemma. The first is using a Tikka T3x action with Unknown Munitions DBM, mag, and XL bolt stop. Adding this to a factory rifle doesn't require a gunsmith. The second is the .25-284. My Tikka .25-284 with standard LA bolt stop and LA mag easily fits the 134 ELDM at 3.14 COL. With 54.5 grains of H1000, I'm currently getting 2828 average MV out of a 22" barrel and 1 MOA 10 shot groups at 200 yards.
I’m so excited to follow this series! I have two 6mm Ackley Improved rifles that were improved by Ackley himself and stocks that my grandpa built. I’ve been dreaming of building another with a tight twist to take advantage of new bullets. I’ll be following this closely for sure. Thanks for the great content!
I feel like a lot of companies would be too frightened of imagined legal risks to tell people how to wildcat. Thanks for covering this! The more good information people have, the safer we'll be in my opinion.
You're in a great position to do that sort of stuff, and doing an indepth lesson on what's involved, is a teachable moment. May as well do it and inject some of the criteria you'd have to consider were you to take it to production as well. Things like, at this point, this is where we can run into problems for production,or here's how we go about evaluating powders for a project like this, what is this more likely to do vs that.
If you guys REALLY want to revive the 25 Cals OVERNIGHT... 1. Make a 120+ grain, 1.500" long CX for a 1:7 Twist Barrel. 2. Then make a 25 PRC based on the 7 PRC case @ 3.340 COAL and you will have a MONSTER medium game cartridge. Don't base it on the 6.5PRC, we don't want that. 3. That 25-7PRC cartridge will COMFORTABLY hit 3350fps with a 120+gr CX in a 26" barrel and N565/Retumbo/H1000/N570 class powders. And do it UNDER 65k psi. Spec it as a long barrel cartridge (26 to 28"). Not everyone wants a short barrel and a suppressor. In fact, most of us over the age of 40, that have money to blow, DON'T want that. We want reliable high performance and precision WITHOUT having to wildcat it ourselves. Like West Texas Ordnance did already with the 25-7PRC. Personally, I would build it with a 30" barrel and hit 3500fps+ with N570. I have 25lbs of it, waiting for something to do. Make 257 Great Again in 2025!
@davidlaroche8928 not that kinda speed. In all reality they will likely base it on the 6.5 PRC to add a little barrel life and make the cartridge less fussy.
Love the idea of 25PRC and agree it needs to be on the 7PRC case, not the 6.5PRC. There is virtually no gain over the existing .25-284 with the 6.5PRC case and 25 SAUM isn't a huge gain either. A 120 ELDM or ELDX would be an awesome option for guys with older 1:10 barrels, and a 130 class ELDX would be a good compliment to the 134 ELDM for hunters that aren't sold on match bullets for hunting (yet). I turn 50 in March, and after I got my first suppressor, I've never looked back. I am only interested in shorter barreled (18-22") rifles and running suppressed. There are just too many benefits. After watching my daughter kill her first elk this fall with a suppressed 18" 7-08 (162 ELDX) without ear pro and hearing the impact on the animal, I'll never hunt unsuppresseed again.
I have been thinking about a long action 257 Robert’s AI with a fast twist barrel for the past three months to shoot the 134 eldm specifically! I am sooo excited for this!! Thank you Hornady!
Doug Shilen built me a 6mm Remington Ackley improved way back which still earns its keep many years later. 100g Speer MV3426 ME 2607ft lbs . I bought a heap of 6mm Remington 100g rounds together with unprimed brass. Simply use the factory rounds and then utilise the fire formed brass to obtain your wildcat which offers approx 7 grains powder advantage over the factory round and loves e.g. 53.3 grains N165 vs N160 45.7 for the standard cartridge. Fabulous flat shooting round for both pests and deer in U.K.
This should be a good series. For a lot of reasons, one of which is that I shoot a standard 257 Roberts on a Mauser small ring action. I feel limited by twist rates of my barrel. I have been shooting copper alloy and have settled on the various 100 gr varieties due to stability at distance. Enough on that, next comment from me There is a good article in the 1993 precision Shooting Annual volume I, page 135, titled “The Six Point Five Millimeter” by Bob Jourdan that discusses the efficiency of his at that time wildcat that talks about case volume optimum, using an improved chamber to allow use of factory ammunition ( this case it was the 6.5x55, yours could be 257 bob). That article from 1993 fior the 6.5 is on par with your discussions on a .257. Having the option of faster twist barrels to utilize new bullet designs is a game changer in this discussion also. Do you want a low buck wildcat that can better factory twists or a new barrel build up.
I was hoping you were looking at a 25AI on a creedmore case. I have a 25-06AI and it is great but I have been wanting to check out the new heavy bullets and think the creedmore would be a good start.
I have a 257 Roberts AI. It is very fast and a pleasure to shoot. Its not set up for fast twist and long bullets. Great choice. If you guys get real performance maybe ill build me another one, reamer is still sharp!
Hey Ben, please finish your work on the 7x57AI. I am a dedicated 7x57 user, but have been thinking about an AI for a long time in order to get more than standard 7x57 velocity in order to maximize the expansion of monolithics. Get SAAMI to approve it at 65k and we're golden! But we're talking wildcats, so no reason to involve SAAMI. Another very interesting podcast, by the way.
I like the 25 cal. I’ve been curious about a 25 Grendel for PRS. If you get one of those slippery bullets above 2700 fps it would out perform the 6 ARC in wind drift for my application.
25 WSM is another solution that would kick up the 25. A 25PRC based on the 6.5PRC doesn't gain enough over the 25-284 or the 25 CM. The 25 CM honestly gets it all done and is the easy button. Everything else is overkill, but why else would we wildcat in the first place> Tikka donor rifle is the easy button at $599-679. Serviceable action that doesn't require a gunsmith to add new stock, barrel, etc...
That had been my idea for a couple of years, got into shot gun sports and spent to much there! They have been using the 270 wsm case for a while. The only problem with the wsm case is the pressures spike quickly. I was going to use the 7mm wsm case for capacity but mathematical it won't get there. Since Alpha started making brass for the 300 wsm that might be the way to go. I had already bought a bunch of brass and reloading dies for the 25 wssm. But having second thoughts on it now.
@@eddieb4227 ADG (recently) and Norma both make quality 300WSM and 270WSM brass. Upon quick google search, Redding sells a 25/300WSM 2-die set, and the neck down from the 270WSM brass can be achieved in one pass. From what I've read, a guy should avoid the 7mm/WSM brass as the case necks are shorter. I'm in the middle of a 6.5/300WSM build, and my goal is 3100 MV out of a 22" barrel running suppressed with the 147 ELDM. If this turns out, I may embark on a 25/WSM build at a later date focused on shooting the 110-120 grain bullets very fast. Until then, my 1:7.5 twist .25-284 is already amazing. :)
The where the $%#&& is my jet pack line comes from a song by Tim Wilson, he stumbles as he says heck, cause that's not the word Tim uses. Tim was on the Bob and Tom morning radio show. Had many funny songs, many albums, worth the listen to, but most is for adult ears
Take the 400 legend rebated case neck it down to 6mm maybe lengthen it design it around a 70ish grain bullet at 2.3" oal an the velocity you will get is going to surprise you an make predator hunters happy🎉... they have been doing it with the 6.8spc case with nutty velocities for what it is...but the 400 case should get a little more powder capacity....
When the BC has actually gone to market and consumers have evaluated it independently, then we can say a revolution has occured. I personally have doubts about their claim that burning faster powders in larger cases (which is all that this revolution involves) will somehow not be barrel burners or bolt busters. And failure after 6 reloads… I mean yes I too am interested, but for everyday shooting, it sounds like good brass will still be king
The 6.5x55 is already perfect. In a strong action rifle. Long necked case, tapered case, fatter thicker head to hold the primers snug and to spread the backward pressure better than -06 based cases… if the 6.5x55 case had been modified to fire 165 grain .308 caliber bullets at 1-11 twist, then you would have had the perfect jungle-capable intermediate round and vietnam would be an american colony.
Why the 6.5 x06 never made it it’s in all reloading manuals but no rifle ever made ? The powders today slower can really make it pop .280 AI gets all the rav. The .260 AI wins matches along w 6.5 x.284. The 06 case just too simple 25/06 6.5/06 .270 .280 .280AI 30/06 u an AI any of them I’ve shot the 6.5x06 for 30 plus years I built it for couse deer and antelope 400 yards those damm critters are just outside the normal. 350 or more It still hold s my personal best of 3.85” 10 round groups at 1000 yards Iam too old to shoot that far practically but if I did it all over 260 AI would fill the bill Long throat or 6.5 x06 AI with .270 spec chamber that way u use the .270 neck Brass pretty much unlimited I know a few that use .35 wheelen it’s that accurate 225. 1000 yard thumper Don’t sweat velocity
Really glad to see you guys go in depth on Wildcating. The 7mm PRCW has taken the F-Class world by thunderstorm. I've made a couple for friends already. Wildcating cartridges is actually a very big part of the firearms economy. Thanks for all you guys do. I love your podcasts.
Great pod cast guys. I didn't expect this one, but I like it a lot
Glad to hear it!
I for one am really going to look forward to this, I have dreamed about doing wildcat builds to the point I have the donor rifles already and just wanted reputable information on how to go about it.
Thanks guys
When my .338Win Mag got stolen a couple years ago, I had to many .338 bullets laying around not to build/buy something that could shoot them. I knew I wanted a semiauto, but .338Fed was just a little too light for me. The solution was to buy a stainless .338 Fed upper, and rent a 338-284 reamer/gauge's from reamer rentals. Other than having to trim the neck after initial sizing of brass from .284 Win, Its been a pretty painless process. It would have been nice to have had a chamber reamer made to bring the throat a little closer for the 230 ELD-X's and 225AB's, but for the cost its been a really good experience.
That would a fantastic round I'd imagine. I've got a couple of 30-284's and love them above all else
Can you look into a 25-6.8 SPC cartridge ? Would make a great 6.8 SPC companion.
@@emoryzakin2576 A 30-284 might be on my list too!
Great idea for a new series guys. Can’t wait to follow along and get some inspiration
Us too!
There are 2 relatively easy solutions to the 25-06 dilemma. The first is using a Tikka T3x action with Unknown Munitions DBM, mag, and XL bolt stop. Adding this to a factory rifle doesn't require a gunsmith.
The second is the .25-284. My Tikka .25-284 with standard LA bolt stop and LA mag easily fits the 134 ELDM at 3.14 COL. With 54.5 grains of H1000, I'm currently getting 2828 average MV out of a 22" barrel and 1 MOA 10 shot groups at 200 yards.
Just finished a 20 Practical. Easy-Peasy, neck down and done. There’s a reason Velocity, Varmint and Vmax all start with the same letter.
I’m so excited to follow this series! I have two 6mm Ackley Improved rifles that were improved by Ackley himself and stocks that my grandpa built. I’ve been dreaming of building another with a tight twist to take advantage of new bullets. I’ll be following this closely for sure. Thanks for the great content!
Very excited about this series!
I am so excited for this you guys, was just thinking the other day that making my own wildcat would be a huge bucket-list item.
That is awesome!
I feel like a lot of companies would be too frightened of imagined legal risks to tell people how to wildcat. Thanks for covering this! The more good information people have, the safer we'll be in my opinion.
You're in a great position to do that sort of stuff, and doing an indepth lesson on what's involved, is a teachable moment. May as well do it and inject some of the criteria you'd have to consider were you to take it to production as well. Things like, at this point, this is where we can run into problems for production,or here's how we go about evaluating powders for a project like this, what is this more likely to do vs that.
If you guys REALLY want to revive the 25 Cals OVERNIGHT...
1. Make a 120+ grain, 1.500" long CX for a 1:7 Twist Barrel.
2. Then make a 25 PRC based on the 7 PRC case @ 3.340 COAL and you will have a MONSTER medium game cartridge. Don't base it on the 6.5PRC, we don't want that.
3. That 25-7PRC cartridge will COMFORTABLY hit 3350fps with a 120+gr CX in a 26" barrel and N565/Retumbo/H1000/N570 class powders. And do it UNDER 65k psi.
Spec it as a long barrel cartridge (26 to 28"). Not everyone wants a short barrel and a suppressor. In fact, most of us over the age of 40, that have money to blow, DON'T want that. We want reliable high performance and precision WITHOUT having to wildcat it ourselves. Like West Texas Ordnance did already with the 25-7PRC.
Personally, I would build it with a 30" barrel and hit 3500fps+ with N570. I have 25lbs of it, waiting for something to do.
Make 257 Great Again in 2025!
A 25PRC in the 6.5PRC case will get the speed with a 120
No ones going to want that barrel burner
@RuggedSportsmen those of us that can buy more barrels will.
They built a 22 Creedmoor, which is even more of a barrel burner.
@davidlaroche8928 not that kinda speed. In all reality they will likely base it on the 6.5 PRC to add a little barrel life and make the cartridge less fussy.
Love the idea of 25PRC and agree it needs to be on the 7PRC case, not the 6.5PRC. There is virtually no gain over the existing .25-284 with the 6.5PRC case and 25 SAUM isn't a huge gain either.
A 120 ELDM or ELDX would be an awesome option for guys with older 1:10 barrels, and a 130 class ELDX would be a good compliment to the 134 ELDM for hunters that aren't sold on match bullets for hunting (yet).
I turn 50 in March, and after I got my first suppressor, I've never looked back. I am only interested in shorter barreled (18-22") rifles and running suppressed. There are just too many benefits. After watching my daughter kill her first elk this fall with a suppressed 18" 7-08 (162 ELDX) without ear pro and hearing the impact on the animal, I'll never hunt unsuppresseed again.
I have been thinking about a long action 257 Robert’s AI with a fast twist barrel for the past three months to shoot the 134 eldm specifically! I am sooo excited for this!! Thank you Hornady!
Doug Shilen built me a 6mm Remington Ackley improved way back which still earns its keep many years later. 100g Speer MV3426 ME 2607ft lbs . I bought a heap of 6mm Remington 100g rounds together with unprimed brass. Simply use the factory rounds and then utilise the fire formed brass to obtain your wildcat which offers approx 7 grains powder advantage over the factory round and loves e.g. 53.3 grains N165 vs N160 45.7 for the standard cartridge. Fabulous flat shooting round for both pests and deer in U.K.
My first was a 6x45. Learned a few things. Then went and built a 20 practical. I like some wildcats
416/300WSM. Had a smith build this rifle in 2024 from a Weatherby Vanguard SA. Workin on loads w/Barnes 350gr TTSX, IMR3031 powder.
@@thevoyageur2152 now that's cool
Alpha is making the 300 Wsm brass now.
@@eddieb4227 Brass is easy to get and form with the dies I have from 300wsm.
@thevoyageur2152
Yes, but there was no high-quality brass.
This should be a good series. For a lot of reasons, one of which is that I shoot a standard 257 Roberts on a Mauser small ring action. I feel limited by twist rates of my barrel. I have been shooting copper alloy and have settled on the various 100 gr varieties due to stability at distance. Enough on that, next comment from me
There is a good article in the 1993 precision Shooting Annual volume I, page 135, titled “The Six Point Five Millimeter” by Bob Jourdan that discusses the efficiency of his at that time wildcat that talks about case volume optimum, using an improved chamber to allow use of factory ammunition ( this case it was the 6.5x55, yours could be 257 bob). That article from 1993 fior the 6.5 is on par with your discussions on a .257.
Having the option of faster twist barrels to utilize new bullet designs is a game changer in this discussion also. Do you want a low buck wildcat that can better factory twists or a new barrel build up.
Can’t wait for inconel cases at 80kpsi. The future of wildcats.
I was hoping you were looking at a 25AI on a creedmore case. I have a 25-06AI and it is great but I have been wanting to check out the new heavy bullets and think the creedmore would be a good start.
Ben, you made me a set of custom dies for my 6.5 Super Snake back in 2019. Absolute jammer round 153 grain running 3590
I have a 257 Roberts AI. It is very fast and a pleasure to shoot. Its not set up for fast twist and long bullets. Great choice. If you guys get real performance maybe ill build me another one, reamer is still sharp!
Hey Ben, please finish your work on the 7x57AI. I am a dedicated 7x57 user, but have been thinking about an AI for a long time in order to get more than standard 7x57 velocity in order to maximize the expansion of monolithics. Get SAAMI to approve it at 65k and we're golden! But we're talking wildcats, so no reason to involve SAAMI. Another very interesting podcast, by the way.
6.5 prc necked down to 6mm seems to be catching on here!
I like the 25 cal. I’ve been curious about a 25 Grendel for PRS. If you get one of those slippery bullets above 2700 fps it would out perform the 6 ARC in wind drift for my application.
Can’t do it. Tried
25 WSM is another solution that would kick up the 25.
A 25PRC based on the 6.5PRC doesn't gain enough over the 25-284 or the 25 CM. The 25 CM honestly gets it all done and is the easy button. Everything else is overkill, but why else would we wildcat in the first place>
Tikka donor rifle is the easy button at $599-679. Serviceable action that doesn't require a gunsmith to add new stock, barrel, etc...
That had been my idea for a couple of years, got into shot gun sports and spent to much there!
They have been using the 270 wsm case for a while. The only problem with the wsm case is the pressures spike quickly.
I was going to use the 7mm wsm case for capacity but mathematical it won't get there.
Since Alpha started making brass for the 300 wsm that might be the way to go.
I had already bought a bunch of brass and reloading dies for the 25 wssm. But having second thoughts on it now.
@@eddieb4227
ADG (recently) and Norma both make quality 300WSM and 270WSM brass. Upon quick google search, Redding sells a 25/300WSM 2-die set, and the neck down from the 270WSM brass can be achieved in one pass. From what I've read, a guy should avoid the 7mm/WSM brass as the case necks are shorter.
I'm in the middle of a 6.5/300WSM build, and my goal is 3100 MV out of a 22" barrel running suppressed with the 147 ELDM. If this turns out, I may embark on a 25/WSM build at a later date focused on shooting the 110-120 grain bullets very fast. Until then, my 1:7.5 twist .25-284 is already amazing. :)
Thoughts on Elmer Keith front Ignition case modifications.
I have a 6.5 Sherman Shortmag, built right before the PRC came out.
❤ avoiding the donut.
What the 25/06 imp does the 6.5x06 does it better. Why not use 85-160 grain bullets
6mm prc someone is shooting one at Hornady, released 2025
West texas ordnance is working on a 25-7 prc that i wouldnt mind having.
Is there already a 300 PRC necked up to 338?
2025 will be the year I get a 25 cal wildcat. Those 138 a-tips have my interest. How about an eld-vt in 25 cal based on the 134 eldm.
When can we expect the 80,000psi 6.5 creedmoor? 6.5 PRC speeds out of a 20 inch barrel? Sign me up.
I'm currently in the process of rebarreling a winchester model 70 that has a 1-12 twist 257 AI barrel to a 1-8 twist 257 AI.
Should see my 20 Grendel 55gr bergers going 3650fps
25 Grendel??? In a Howa mini action????
25-260AI would be cool.
Wouldn’t a mild 25PRC out shine a 257 Robert’s AI?
All day long 😂 magnum vs standard case
6mm-7prc
22 prc.....
6-7 Power stroke. It's out there
Not related to this podcast but why does the box say 2975 but we are only getting 2800 with 180 eldm 7prc
They ran out of original powder used and swapped to another one and didn’t reprint the boxes. Been talked about a lot in other videos and forums
@@davegreenleaf5272what was the original powder?
@@btbrilzsupposedly reloader 26 or commercial version of it
The '20-25 BPS Podcaster'...
The where the $%#&& is my jet pack line comes from a song by Tim Wilson, he stumbles as he says heck, cause that's not the word Tim uses. Tim was on the Bob and Tom morning radio show. Had many funny songs, many albums, worth the listen to, but most is for adult ears
That’s why I stumbled! Great song
Take the 400 legend rebated case neck it down to 6mm maybe lengthen it design it around a 70ish grain bullet at 2.3" oal an the velocity you will get is going to surprise you an make predator hunters happy🎉... they have been doing it with the 6.8spc case with nutty velocities for what it is...but the 400 case should get a little more powder capacity....
That would make all 14 6max owners sweat.
Talking about wildcats when federal just revolutionized the shooting industry... 😂😂😂
Huh?
Wildcats have been around through a whole lot of revolutionary shooting moments in time.
When the BC has actually gone to market and consumers have evaluated it independently, then we can say a revolution has occured. I personally have doubts about their claim that burning faster powders in larger cases (which is all that this revolution involves) will somehow not be barrel burners or bolt busters. And failure after 6 reloads…
I mean yes I too am interested, but for everyday shooting, it sounds like good brass will still be king
1984.... Spirit.
22-378 or .17-50Bmg
So yall gonna Sami spec 25 creed 🤷♂️😂
I had a gunsmith build me a 6-284 years ago and it’s not much faster than a long barreled 243…
6mm-6.5x55 swede ai?
The 6.5x55 is already perfect. In a strong action rifle. Long necked case, tapered case, fatter thicker head to hold the primers snug and to spread the backward pressure better than -06 based cases… if the 6.5x55 case had been modified to fire 165 grain .308 caliber bullets at 1-11 twist, then you would have had the perfect jungle-capable intermediate round and vietnam would be an american colony.
Why the 6.5 x06 never made it it’s in all reloading manuals but no rifle ever made ? The powders today slower can really make it pop .280 AI gets all the rav. The .260 AI wins matches along w 6.5 x.284. The 06 case just too simple 25/06 6.5/06 .270 .280 .280AI 30/06 u an AI any of them I’ve shot the 6.5x06 for 30 plus years I built it for couse deer and antelope 400 yards those damm critters are just outside the normal. 350 or more It still hold s my personal best of 3.85” 10 round groups at 1000 yards Iam too old to shoot that far practically but if I did it all over 260 AI would fill the bill Long throat or 6.5 x06 AI with .270 spec chamber that way u use the .270 neck Brass pretty much unlimited I know a few that use .35 wheelen it’s that accurate 225. 1000 yard thumper Don’t sweat velocity
.25 just can’t find the right bullets 6.5/ .284 lots of bullets
25prc
250-3000 AI