Great point about responding to the 'that'll get you killed in a gunfight' comments. A lot of folks want to turn 'less lethal' devices into lethal devices and they end up making an inefficient version of something that already exists. If you're pulling out an airgun with a co2 canister that you have to twist to puncture or slap the bottom, it doesn't matter if it has 80 joules. Same with those airgun rifles. While you're twisting your co2 tank in, they are unloading much harder hitting rounds in your direction immediately. There are those who can't own guns and want to use less lethal to give them some level of 'protection' as a gun would, do they are pumping the joules up. That's understandable, but the moment people start getting killed with these once the joules are bumped up, these are going to get regulated just as well. A pumped up joules airgun can get you killed even quicker than having your 'weak Byrna' if it that airgun gives you courage and you start thinking you can do battle with folks with actual firearms. The best defense against firearms is avoiding situations where people would have them in the first place and learning de-escalate situations. Less lethal isn't for getting in gunfights or necessarily even hardcore home defense. You need to have a real firearm as a backup, if not first option. If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, you might want to grab that pistol first and have the less-lethal in your pocket in which you can pull out if you are able to determine the intruder doesn't have a gun.
People forget that the harder the chemical around hits, the more it disperses. That's the real point here. I'll take a roughly 300 FPS average all day. The SD is already effective if used correctly, let alone this. Sorry, anybody taking a second shot of kinetic from one of these on a fresh Co2 is in for a very bad day as they regularly pull 400+ FPS. This also shows me that Byrna is an honest company for not marketing the absolute highest number. I just got my LE today and replaced my very good SD. Great video.
Bang on mate. I think the LE is probably setup more optimally to ensure the pepper breaks downrange more reliably and not in the launcher. All in all it does what it is advertised to do so i am happy with that.
High two hundreds fps, third mag? Not bad I would say. I own the LE, S2, Gavle and tuned up HDP50. Only the LE after firing a full a mag, has enough gas left to get off several more rounds off of a newly inserted mag. And the LE is really the only launcher of the bunch, that can actually perform a quick mag change. 7 more rounds at 300-250 fps, (in the face if you had to) can still really inflict some damage to help you flee an attack. I approve!
Some would argue follow up mags shouldn’t be necessary. This is a shoot and run for most situations, not stand and defend. Getting lots of shots for practice is great, but if you need more than one mag from this it may be the wrong tool. It does have some other advantages like shoot to puncture and thats why i still carry the LE.
I believe the reason the FPS went up after reloading the mag was because the consistent shot sequence causes the CO2 cartridge to ice up, and deliver less power, and when you reload, it warms back up getting rid of the ice. You will notice that when you remove a spent CO2 cartridge right after firing, it is quite cold. That is what I believe is happening. To get true power of every shot, it might be best to wait a minute between shots, but that is not real world, and does not make for good video.
You are 💯 correct and the reason i tested in this manner because its more likely what would happen in the real world. Dump and run one magazine, not reload and engage an attacker.
Thanks for the video showing how much power these things have right out of the box. I have asked a few times why there is so much hate on the Byrna markers and other than the cost, no one has actually given me a reason.
You are welcome. There will always be hate but one must understand some tools are just better in certain situations. The Byrna has some cons for sure but it serves its purpose well for me. Would i like more? Absolutely.
I couldnt agree more. 4+ mags is not a realistic engagement with this device. Byrna may have taken this approach for legality reasons but then that doesn’t explain how the other two Tippmann markers in there lineup are allowed to shoot harder.
Gracias for the vids! And a shaped projectile at high power is definitely lethal. And 10g round ball at 50joules is shattering orbitals, collar bones, knocking teeth out. It’s a bad day to get hit with any projectiles going that fast. Your m17 is definitely defense worthy.
Thanks for the continued support on the Byrna line up, it might take a few years, but I feel like this gun has potential to get tunned up. I appreciate that you also keep it real, the gun falls short from advertisement sadly, but maybe one day we will figure out how to properly modify this baby.
Thanks for the support. I have seen others test better then mine and results do vary widely on gas, environment, projectiles and even manufacturing tolerances. It was an improvement over the SD but at least in my test not by a whole lot. Good news is i have an SD that may undergo some more extensive mods. There are enough of these things out there that we will bend the rules eventually.
Just finished binging your entire series on the m17 and multiple of your other videos. My idea is to have a modified m17 to shoot at the 40j-50j range and an additional pistol for quick access in case of emergency. My ideal wishlist would be: - small enough to conceal carry or at least fit in glove box (so probably 12g c02) - quick piercing and/or pierce on trigger - 40j (or as close as possible). I know that’s a tall order lol. Some things I’d like to stay away from: - long barrels that make the pistol unpractical for everyday carry - sustaining high power for multiple mags. Since this would be emergency-centric, I would only care about the first 4-6 shots. SORRY for the long read but your knowledge is invaluable and from what I’ve seen you’re more than willing to help noobs like me out. Thanks again for your help
The M17 in the 40-50 range is no problem with a reasonable barrel of only 8” and 1100psi output. The pistol on the other hand is a bit of a tall order without a long barrel. Fsc out of the box is about 30j when tuned up on a 12g but uses twist to pierce mags. Add a 5” barrel its not unreasonable to see 35-40 with appropriate ammo. Tipx out of the box is almost the same and has nifty pull trigger to puncture. Its also on the larger side. Since the Tcr valve has been discontinued increasing the power of the Tipx is only going to come from a longer barrel, filing the stock air chamber to mimic the Tcr valve or sourcing a Tcr valve from somebody. With one of the above mods 35 to even as high as 50j is quite possible. There is also Hdr68 which definitely on the much larger size, quick puncture grip. Easy diy modifications send this marker to about 32j. Not much else in the way of upgrades besides hpa power or some ridiculously long barrel. Then you have the 50cal Umarex variants that can be anywhere between 20-25j with a short barrel. Choose your poison ☠️. The Fsc is probably the best option as a pistol and is highly customizable should you choose to chase the power dragon.
Someone may have already mentioned this but the LE is set up like it is for how most LE load their mags...1 or 2 kinetics then pepper in case they need to shoot out a window.
@@lesslethalfordummies ...I heard its also how Josh at Byrna trains LE depts to load mags when he's training them. Makes sense...wish they'd fix the dumb 7 round mags though.
Probably has more to do with the color. I would send Byrna an email. There are also other dealers that can help but that doesnt make it legal. Mercy Less Lethal.
The first shot Hot shot is due to the initial puncture of the cylinder. That initial punch holds the max amount of instant pressure. Then the rest is stabilized in the chamber
@@lesslethalfordummies I have a question for you, I only own this in SD model. And although I do like it it is pretty bulky for EDC concealed inside waistband if I'm being honest. Is there any other alternative that you would recommend for inside waistband EDC? That doesn't leak air and is efficient at performance?
@@makcatchem9614 The smallest that you could edc that worthy of any sort of protection is an Hdp50. The puncture system does delay deployment to some degree other wise some form of aerosol pepper spray, taser or even JPX pepper launcher I heard are great tools.
Thanks for a definitive test. The results were encouraging and depressing. The encouraging part was, if BYRNA cuts the CO2 regulation down to ~ 14 shots, they could get consistence shots at 20+ joules which would make it very attractive. I don't know whether it could be that simple. All the seals and other components might not be designed for more than what you get. The depressing part is pathetic results for ~ $500 launcher. I get it, in that it is a Pepper ball launcher, not built for kinetic personal defense. They only came out with the kinetics so they could sell to CA, NY, etc.
The Byrna is weaker than some lesser price launchers but it really was purpose built for pepper. Liability is the biggest factor I think in why it’s not turned up more.
I agree 100% That's why I say joules in the 20's. Anything higher is a law suit waiting to happen. @@lesslethalfordummiesPepperball, Tippman cover themselves by making their markers blow the O ring at 28-30 joules or so. You have to take parts out or change Umarex launchers. Makers are not liable if some "mad Scientist" replaces the o rings or adds/subtract/swap parts. Ford is not liable if you take one of their models and make a hotrod. I am hoping BYRNA will take the risk down the road of making something that has 5 or more shots at or above 20j. Their design and construction definitely is against easy modification.
That would depend alot on distance and shot placement. At 20ft a well clothed person may be annoyed by a kinetic projectile. I will be completely honest because of the launchers lack of power compared to others i will choose to aim above the neck and this will 💯 stop someone. You have to ask yourself if this is doable for the situation you might find yourself in. In my case yes the quick puncture and close proximity to a possible threat fits the bill very well.
@@lesslethalfordummies thank you for taking the time to answer, I live in New York and the pepper projectiles are illegal. Which would you recommend to be the most effective less lethal gun on the market that I can use if needed for self defense.. I need something for home defense and daily concealed carry. I have a shot gun for home as a last resort Thank you again
@@Chisca22it is just my opinion but without the added expense of high pressure air it sounds like you need something co2 powered. The higher powered launchers currently available from smallest to largest that meet your criteria would be Grimburg Gavale, Pepperball Tcp or the newest version Trp and then the Sabre SL7. If you are up for modifications the Tcp is available as the paintball version First Strike Fsc and the Sabre SL7 is available as the Tippmann Tipx. The Sabre SL7 and arguably the Pepperball Tcp are not that concealable but are powerful.
Thanks so much for all your testing and efforts involving these videos. It's possible that I missed something concerning the LE model with all the videos you've done. The fact that the l e model has a high-powered first shot I was wondering about something concerning that. If you were to puncture and fire at the same time we know normally the power is reduced. If I understand it correctly the other way is to have it on safety and puncture. If you then fire after switching the selecter to fire the power would be a normal powered discharge. Have you tried that with the LE model to see what happens. I was wondering if you have what were the results? Thanks again so much for your knowledge and contributions in the field of less lethal.
Hmm you would be correct that i never tested with a first pull/puncture and fire. My understanding is the LE fires at half power much like the SD but you are right is it half power of the first shot if i punctured on safety and fired? Something i should test. Just got to get my LE back on the table to see what i did wrong during assembly.
@@lesslethalfordummies Thanks for your quick response. It would also be interesting to see if it spreads the power out with the rounds that follow doing a puncture and shoot at the same time. It's just a thought but definitely worth trying. I see the challenge with opening the l e up I'm sure you'll get it figured out. Thanks very much again.
@@lesslethalfordummies fti thick felt fabric works well too and less expensive. And I just realized carpet may also work? Thanks for the informative vids and productive conversations!
Anything can be used as a back drop so long as you are prepared to make adjustments. Believe it or not this kevlar fabric was only $15 when i purchased it over a year ago. Carpet is a good one but can get a little messy with all the bits and i also have seen those heavy moving blankets which probably is close to the felt you mentioned.
Will the red button xradar not have measured this first trial for the LE correctly? I know they say the red button xradar is for up to 399fps, and yellow button xradar is for up to 698fps, but they said red button is for 68 caliber and yellow button is for 25caliber airsoft bbs
@@lesslethalfordummies in addition to what you mention the +1 round also puts extra pressure on the mag spring which has caused mine to jam a few times. I no longer carry the +1 for this reason.
Hola como estas?? que diferencia tiene la byrna a comparacion de la umarex hdp aparte del calibre cual es mejor quiero comprarme una y no se por cual decidirme gracias espero tu respuesta saludos desde argentina
The Hdp is much simpler and cheaper to start with. The Hdp can easily shoot much harder/faster then the Byrna with a few simple mods. I like the Byrnas trigger puncture system but it is better suited for pepperballs.
If shot in face with pepper rounds or kinetic rounds against a gun fight it could stop someone but probably not if hit in chest if person us crazy on drugs or mental, ill say face shots only in a deadly situation.
I would agree with face shots but will also say that if faced with deadly force first option should be to run and not engage with an LL device unless its the only option available.
I use TechT Gun Drops. Its just the typical silicone based paintball oil. Anything silicone based is sufficient and safe to use. No petroleum based products.
They do say that but many do without issue. Heck some that have used strictly Byrna co2 have had more problems. Like any launcher things can and do happen.
@@lesslethalfordummies thank you for that brother im lookin for a method of being able to mag dump multiple mags without paying the price in the hood here in bay area california so i have my freedom fighter home defense ready but i need the less lethal option.... going with this byrna le tryin to find a seller to ship the pepper /tear gas rounds so for the house i got sumn that makes em wish they chose a different home to hit.
Informative, but you need to practice muzzle control. Safety first, last, and always. Anyone who has spent time on an actual range or in combat will cringe watching this.
After hundreds of videos i agree some discipline has been lost but i assure you markers are not loaded or i understand that they will not fire until an initial pierce. I will do better.
@@lesslethalfordummies THIS is a WIN! We all end up better when we can look at ourselves objectively through another's eyes and make improvements. All of us make mistakes and let our guard down at times as well. Me included. As an Olympic 10m Air Rifle and Small Bore Coach it is pretty humbling to get called out by your athletes, but I would be a liar to say it has never happened. We all learn. It is a greater person who can learn through the eyes of another. - Zip
Check out the ltl bravo1.50 and aluminum balls over 20joules and maintains that power for a full magazine and it’s a smaller projectile so more punch per joule a much more reliable and potentially lethal pistol
Funny the evolution this is the perfect weapon that A convicted felon can own but they have to be careful in what states and the laws they have specially in New Jersey
It’s bullshit the claim high joules when it’s only one shot I’d rather have 16j for all shots in a mag then one powerful shot and a bunch of weaker shots
Great point about responding to the 'that'll get you killed in a gunfight' comments.
A lot of folks want to turn 'less lethal' devices into lethal devices and they end up making an inefficient version of something that already exists. If you're pulling out an airgun with a co2 canister that you have to twist to puncture or slap the bottom, it doesn't matter if it has 80 joules. Same with those airgun rifles. While you're twisting your co2 tank in, they are unloading much harder hitting rounds in your direction immediately.
There are those who can't own guns and want to use less lethal to give them some level of 'protection' as a gun would, do they are pumping the joules up. That's understandable, but the moment people start getting killed with these once the joules are bumped up, these are going to get regulated just as well. A pumped up joules airgun can get you killed even quicker than having your 'weak Byrna' if it that airgun gives you courage and you start thinking you can do battle with folks with actual firearms.
The best defense against firearms is avoiding situations where people would have them in the first place and learning de-escalate situations. Less lethal isn't for getting in gunfights or necessarily even hardcore home defense. You need to have a real firearm as a backup, if not first option. If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, you might want to grab that pistol first and have the less-lethal in your pocket in which you can pull out if you are able to determine the intruder doesn't have a gun.
Well said. The first sentence of the last paragraph “avoiding situations” is by far the best advice that anyone can get or give.
I have firearms and several LL. But I live in a thin walled apartment, so you see the issue I have.
People forget that the harder the chemical around hits, the more it disperses. That's the real point here. I'll take a roughly 300 FPS average all day. The SD is already effective if used correctly, let alone this. Sorry, anybody taking a second shot of kinetic from one of these on a fresh Co2 is in for a very bad day as they regularly pull 400+ FPS. This also shows me that Byrna is an honest company for not marketing the absolute highest number. I just got my LE today and replaced my very good SD.
Great video.
Bang on mate. I think the LE is probably setup more optimally to ensure the pepper breaks downrange more reliably and not in the launcher. All in all it does what it is advertised to do so i am happy with that.
High two hundreds fps, third mag? Not bad I would say. I own the LE, S2, Gavle and tuned up HDP50. Only the LE after firing a full a mag, has enough gas left to get off several more rounds off of a newly inserted mag. And the LE is really the only launcher of the bunch, that can actually perform a quick mag change. 7 more rounds at 300-250 fps, (in the face if you had to) can still really inflict some damage to help you flee an attack. I approve!
Some would argue follow up mags shouldn’t be necessary. This is a shoot and run for most situations, not stand and defend. Getting lots of shots for practice is great, but if you need more than one mag from this it may be the wrong tool. It does have some other advantages like shoot to puncture and thats why i still carry the LE.
@@lesslethalfordummies Shoot to puncture is a really handy feature for sure.
💯
I believe the reason the FPS went up after reloading the mag was because the consistent shot sequence causes the CO2 cartridge to ice up, and deliver less power, and when you reload, it warms back up getting rid of the ice. You will notice that when you remove a spent CO2 cartridge right after firing, it is quite cold. That is what I believe is happening. To get true power of every shot, it might be best to wait a minute between shots, but that is not real world, and does not make for good video.
You are 💯 correct and the reason i tested in this manner because its more likely what would happen in the real world. Dump and run one magazine, not reload and engage an attacker.
Thanks for the video showing how much power these things have right out of the box. I have asked a few times why there is so much hate on the Byrna markers and other than the cost, no one has actually given me a reason.
You are welcome. There will always be hate but one must understand some tools are just better in certain situations. The Byrna has some cons for sure but it serves its purpose well for me. Would i like more? Absolutely.
Thank bro. Less lethal vs gun argument is old.
Couldn’t agree more. LL is a choice.
In my honest opinion Byrner should focus on power and less on how many rounds you can get per CO2 or should at least have a velocity adjustment option
I couldnt agree more. 4+ mags is not a realistic engagement with this device. Byrna may have taken this approach for legality reasons but then that doesn’t explain how the other two Tippmann markers in there lineup are allowed to shoot harder.
don't. Not late to the party, youre on LLFD TIME! Great vid and testing of the LE. I kind of want one, but kind of dont💥💥💥
Yep there it is….the sickness 🤒 😷 🤒 😆. Thanks my friend.
Gracias for the vids!
And a shaped projectile at high power is definitely lethal.
And 10g round ball at 50joules is shattering orbitals, collar bones, knocking teeth out. It’s a bad day to get hit with any projectiles going that fast. Your m17 is definitely defense worthy.
De nada!
She is definitely rocking now better then ever. Dare i say perfect? 😆
@Randy Alvarado 50j is nothing to sneeze at and we have to ask ourselves what are our intentions.
Thanks for the continued support on the Byrna line up, it might take a few years, but I feel like this gun has potential to get tunned up. I appreciate that you also keep it real, the gun falls short from advertisement sadly, but maybe one day we will figure out how to properly modify this baby.
Thanks for the support. I have seen others test better then mine and results do vary widely on gas, environment, projectiles and even manufacturing tolerances. It was an improvement over the SD but at least in my test not by a whole lot.
Good news is i have an SD that may undergo some more extensive mods. There are enough of these things out there that we will bend the rules eventually.
@Randy Alvarado There is and i have already done it to my SD but it requires opening the marker and voiding any warranty.
@Randy Alvarado meh is right. Its a bit a pain in the ass to open these things up. The LE is the way to go.
Hmm something i didnt try was can the launcher be safetied after puncture?
My SD feels like i am going to snap the selector off.
@@lesslethalfordummieswhich laser/flashlight you are using I need one for my byrna le?
Just finished binging your entire series on the m17 and multiple of your other videos. My idea is to have a modified m17 to shoot at the 40j-50j range and an additional pistol for quick access in case of emergency. My ideal wishlist would be:
- small enough to conceal carry or at least fit in glove box (so probably 12g c02)
- quick piercing and/or pierce on trigger
- 40j (or as close as possible).
I know that’s a tall order lol. Some things I’d like to stay away from:
- long barrels that make the pistol unpractical for everyday carry
- sustaining high power for multiple mags. Since this would be emergency-centric, I would only care about the first 4-6 shots.
SORRY for the long read but your knowledge is invaluable and from what I’ve seen you’re more than willing to help noobs like me out.
Thanks again for your help
The M17 in the 40-50 range is no problem with a reasonable barrel of only 8” and 1100psi output.
The pistol on the other hand is a bit of a tall order without a long barrel.
Fsc out of the box is about 30j when tuned up on a 12g but uses twist to pierce mags. Add a 5” barrel its not unreasonable to see 35-40 with appropriate ammo.
Tipx out of the box is almost the same and has nifty pull trigger to puncture. Its also on the larger side. Since the Tcr valve has been discontinued increasing the power of the Tipx is only going to come from a longer barrel, filing the stock air chamber to mimic the Tcr valve or sourcing a Tcr valve from somebody. With one of the above mods 35 to even as high as 50j is quite possible.
There is also Hdr68 which definitely on the much larger size, quick puncture grip. Easy diy modifications send this marker to about 32j. Not much else in the way of upgrades besides hpa power or some ridiculously long barrel.
Then you have the 50cal Umarex variants that can be anywhere between 20-25j with a short barrel.
Choose your poison ☠️. The Fsc is probably the best option as a pistol and is highly customizable should you choose to chase the power dragon.
Someone may have already mentioned this but the LE is set up like it is for how most LE load their mags...1 or 2 kinetics then pepper in case they need to shoot out a window.
Makes sense but it is the first i have seen mentioned. Peppering a car interior is very effective.
@@lesslethalfordummies ...I heard its also how Josh at Byrna trains LE depts to load mags when he's training them. Makes sense...wish they'd fix the dumb 7 round mags though.
There's no ''late to the party. Everyone is interested in what everyone else has and how it's doing. ;-]
Better late then never I guess. Appreciate that.
Nice test as always. Very impressive velocity on the first shot. The Less Lethal markers are a hole lot better than nothing 👍
Something is better then nothing. I do plan on examining why the first shot is so high. I have some theories.
@@lesslethalfordummies I look forward to more tinkering and testing videos. I wonder why the first shot was so powerful 🤔
Hoping i can narrow it down using my SD as the test mule.
@@lesslethalfordummies Fsc way more power
Byrna is cool, and I really like that when you pull the trigger first time, Co2 canister gets punctured. I hope we can have them in EU one day.
I saw "for dummies" I subbed.
I would have too.
I was ready to pull the trigger on an entire kit with other goodies for over $600 but found out that I cannot purchase it for my state of California!
Probably has more to do with the color. I would send Byrna an email.
There are also other dealers that can help but that doesnt make it legal. Mercy Less Lethal.
@@lesslethalfordummies
I tried the orange 🍊 color and nope.
I think a dealer is the way so that we have to register and take a safety class.🤡🇺🇸
@@johnnybbgunner2136 dang
@@johnnybbgunner2136 send Charles an email over at Mercy Less Lethal. If he cant help, he can at least point you in the right direction.
Teachers should be able to carry a Byrna
Wouldnt be a bad idea with some of the things i have seen happening.
That is alot of shots . pretty good count on my end. Good video.
It is very efficient. Thank for watching!
The first shot Hot shot is due to the initial puncture of the cylinder. That initial punch holds the max amount of instant pressure. Then the rest is stabilized in the chamber
💯 co2 in a measly 12g offers diminishing returns if left unregulated which is why Umarex uses the block and/or co2 restrictor.
@@lesslethalfordummies I have a question for you, I only own this in SD model. And although I do like it it is pretty bulky for EDC concealed inside waistband if I'm being honest. Is there any other alternative that you would recommend for inside waistband EDC? That doesn't leak air and is efficient at performance?
@@makcatchem9614 The smallest that you could edc that worthy of any sort of protection is an Hdp50. The puncture system does delay deployment to some degree other wise some form of aerosol pepper spray, taser or even JPX pepper launcher I heard are great tools.
Thanks for the upload. Certainly better, but still underwhelming when you compare it to the HDP50. Especially when you consider the price.
💯 i am just happy it made it here. Wont be the last you see of it.
Hdp/hdr dollar for dollar hit way harder and are really a bargain considering.
Kobus is the HDP .50 in your opinion a more powerful marker, without modifications?
@@thystruter6869 yes, compared to the standard byrna. I have the Byrna, then bought the boost adapter. The Umarex is better in my opinion.
@@truth.tactical5580 agreed. Living in a windy environment, pepper is a non starter. For indoor use at fairly close range the Byrna is fine.
Thanks for a definitive test. The results were encouraging and depressing. The encouraging part was, if BYRNA cuts the CO2 regulation down to ~ 14 shots, they could get consistence shots at 20+ joules which would make it very attractive. I don't know whether it could be that simple. All the seals and other components might not be designed for more than what you get. The depressing part is pathetic results for ~ $500 launcher. I get it, in that it is a Pepper ball launcher, not built for kinetic personal defense. They only came out with the kinetics so they could sell to CA, NY, etc.
The Byrna is weaker than some lesser price launchers but it really was purpose built for pepper. Liability is the biggest factor I think in why it’s not turned up more.
I agree 100% That's why I say joules in the 20's. Anything higher is a law suit waiting to happen. @@lesslethalfordummiesPepperball, Tippman cover themselves by making their markers blow the O ring at 28-30 joules or so. You have to take parts out or change Umarex launchers. Makers are not liable if some "mad Scientist" replaces the o rings or adds/subtract/swap parts. Ford is not liable if you take one of their models and make a hotrod. I am hoping BYRNA will take the risk down the road of making something that has 5 or more shots at or above 20j. Their design and construction definitely is against easy modification.
🤩🤩🤩
🤘🏼🤘🏼 💥
Nice video. Would you still consider this as effective if you only use the kinetic rounds. Thank you
That would depend alot on distance and shot placement. At 20ft a well clothed person may be annoyed by a kinetic projectile.
I will be completely honest because of the launchers lack of power compared to others i will choose to aim above the neck and this will 💯 stop someone.
You have to ask yourself if this is doable for the situation you might find yourself in. In my case yes the quick puncture and close proximity to a possible threat fits the bill very well.
@@lesslethalfordummies thank you for taking the time to answer, I live in New York and the pepper projectiles are illegal. Which would you recommend to be the most effective less lethal gun on the market that I can use if needed for self defense.. I need something for home defense and daily concealed carry. I have a shot gun for home as a last resort
Thank you again
@@Chisca22it is just my opinion but without the added expense of high pressure air it sounds like you need something co2 powered. The higher powered launchers currently available from smallest to largest that meet your criteria would be Grimburg Gavale, Pepperball Tcp or the newest version Trp and then the Sabre SL7.
If you are up for modifications the Tcp is available as the paintball version First Strike Fsc and the Sabre SL7 is available as the Tippmann Tipx.
The Sabre SL7 and arguably the Pepperball Tcp are not that concealable but are powerful.
Thanks so much for all your testing and efforts involving these videos. It's possible that I missed something concerning the LE model with all the videos you've done. The fact that the l e model has a high-powered first shot I was wondering about something concerning that. If you were to puncture and fire at the same time we know normally the power is reduced. If I understand it correctly the other way is to have it on safety and puncture. If you then fire after switching the selecter to fire the power would be a normal powered discharge. Have you tried that with the LE model to see what happens. I was wondering if you have what were the results? Thanks again so much for your knowledge and contributions in the field of less lethal.
Hmm you would be correct that i never tested with a first pull/puncture and fire. My understanding is the LE fires at half power much like the SD but you are right is it half power of the first shot if i punctured on safety and fired? Something i should test. Just got to get my LE back on the table to see what i did wrong during assembly.
@@lesslethalfordummies Thanks for your quick response. It would also be interesting to see if it spreads the power out with the rounds that follow doing a puncture and shoot at the same time. It's just a thought but definitely worth trying. I see the challenge with opening the l e up I'm sure you'll get it figured out. Thanks very much again.
@@kurt9994 something worth testing once its back up and running.
Where did you get that target from? Nice video,thank you
The ammo trap was constructed from a 50gal bottle plastic drum and some kevlar fabric as a back drop.
@@lesslethalfordummies fti thick felt fabric works well too and less expensive. And I just realized carpet may also work? Thanks for the informative vids and productive conversations!
Anything can be used as a back drop so long as you are prepared to make adjustments. Believe it or not this kevlar fabric was only $15 when i purchased it over a year ago. Carpet is a good one but can get a little messy with all the bits and i also have seen those heavy moving blankets which probably is close to the felt you mentioned.
Will the red button xradar not have measured this first trial for the LE correctly? I know they say the red button xradar is for up to 399fps, and yellow button xradar is for up to 698fps, but they said red button is for 68 caliber and yellow button is for 25caliber airsoft bbs
That is correct. The red but only measures to 399 so you would need to use heavier balls to drag the fps below that threshold.
Would you rely on the byrna le to protect yourself and your family when out of the house?
Its the only concealable option that i can get on board with. That being said i will always try to avoid a situation if my family were present.
How about the Gavle 1.5?
I got no seat time with the gavale yet.
I was going to convert my pistol to a HPA version.🇺🇸
It is possible but not that practical as the feed goes out the front.
I think this was a decent test & it makes me want to get the LE that much more over the SD.
It does what its designed to do no matter what any one says. I wish it shot 25j every shot but we are working on that.
@@lesslethalfordummies My LE arrived today, but I didn't have time to try it out. I only work 6 hours tomorrow (Thurs.), so I'll try it out then!
@danofiremano awesome! Hopefully it treats you well.
What brand Chronometer are you using? And where did you buy it? Thanks
It is called an X-Radar. I bought it at a local paintball shop.
Awesome video. On the byrnas, can you chamber a round then put a full 7 round mag in?
If you were using kinetics only i think so. Putting that much added stress on frangible projectiles is not recommended.
I normally chamber one then slide in the Mag with 5 kinectics I have had no issues as of yet on the XL Model
@@lesslethalfordummies in addition to what you mention the +1 round also puts extra pressure on the mag spring which has caused mine to jam a few times. I no longer carry the +1 for this reason.
Could you list prices Please?
I do not sell anything here. Just a guy in his garage with lots bad ideas.
Thank you
Hola como estas?? que diferencia tiene la byrna a comparacion de la umarex hdp aparte del calibre cual es mejor quiero comprarme una y no se por cual decidirme gracias espero tu respuesta saludos desde argentina
The Hdp is much simpler and cheaper to start with. The Hdp can easily shoot much harder/faster then the Byrna with a few simple mods. I like the Byrnas trigger puncture system but it is better suited for pepperballs.
@@lesslethalfordummies muchas gracias por tu respuesta saludos
If shot in face with pepper rounds or kinetic rounds against a gun fight it could stop someone but probably not if hit in chest if person us crazy on drugs or mental, ill say face shots only in a deadly situation.
I would agree with face shots but will also say that if faced with deadly force first option should be to run and not engage with an LL device unless its the only option available.
Yup! I have the sd
Lol its funny how byrna used your video and cut it off after the 400+ reading. its still a nice product tho.
Yes i saw that. 😆 I really do like it and it gets to ride along everyday i just wish it was consistently 400.
What do you put on the tip of the co2 cartridge?
I use TechT Gun Drops. Its just the typical silicone based paintball oil. Anything silicone based is sufficient and safe to use. No petroleum based products.
I need a laser/flashlight for my byrna which laser/flashlight he is using?
See my other response
Olight
1 great advantage is that in a occupied structure, a missed shot does not end up in a innocent bystander. 🤔
There are as many advantages as there are disadvantages. The user has to make a choice.
Where'd you buy your chrono bro
I found this yellow button xradar at a local paintball shop sometime ago.
dont they say dont use crosman brand?
They do say that but many do without issue. Heck some that have used strictly Byrna co2 have had more problems. Like any launcher things can and do happen.
@@lesslethalfordummies thank you for that brother im lookin for a method of being able to mag dump multiple mags without paying the price in the hood here in bay area california so i have my freedom fighter home defense ready but i need the less lethal option.... going with this byrna le tryin to find a seller to ship the pepper /tear gas rounds so for the house i got sumn that makes em wish they chose a different home to hit.
Welcome 👍🏼
Make sure to drink coffee before the presentation! You will sound like you're excited about what you are doing lol 😮😅
😂 ☕️ 🥂
Its allergy season here so i can sound miserable at times.
Informative, but you need to practice muzzle control. Safety first, last, and always. Anyone who has spent time on an actual range or in combat will cringe watching this.
After hundreds of videos i agree some discipline has been lost but i assure you markers are not loaded or i understand that they will not fire until an initial pierce. I will do better.
cringing.
@@lesslethalfordummies THIS is a WIN! We all end up better when we can look at ourselves objectively through another's eyes and make improvements. All of us make mistakes and let our guard down at times as well. Me included. As an Olympic 10m Air Rifle and Small Bore Coach it is pretty humbling to get called out by your athletes, but I would be a liar to say it has never happened. We all learn. It is a greater person who can learn through the eyes of another. - Zip
Byrna LE is second rate compared to
other less lethal. 350 fps with S2.
I bought the byrna $649.
S2 sold for $150. Byrna Sucks.
Stock for stock the Salt is the better launcher.
My modded LE does much better 🙂.
Check out the ltl bravo1.50 and aluminum balls over 20joules and maintains that power for a full magazine and it’s a smaller projectile so more punch per joule a much more reliable and potentially lethal pistol
Some of these markers are more difficult to import into 🇨🇦 otherwise i would have more. 😂
Sorry but not worth the price...........
I can agree with that for the uneducated in the world of LL. There may be better options based on your needs.
For 5 bills the Gavle blows it away
Funny the evolution this is the perfect weapon that A convicted felon can own but they have to be careful in what states and the laws they have specially in New Jersey
Always got to watch the state and local laws. They can stray far from what one thinks is legal.
It’s bullshit the claim high joules when it’s only one shot I’d rather have 16j for all shots in a mag then one powerful shot and a bunch of weaker shots
I am in total agreement. If it can do one it can do more. Just have to unravel the puzzle.