Battle of The BEST!....Defender vs Penetrator!
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Comparing two of the best self defense ammo choices available today. The Underwood Extreme Defenders & Penetrators in .380 acp. Heavy clothing ballistic gel test with the Ruger LCP Max!
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Развлечения
Just ordered a few boxes of the 68gr Defender for my LCP Max based on this review. Thank you for all of the awesome testing.
Perfect .380 round.😎👍
Be sure to check for and watch out for extreme bullet set back into the cases! I’m finding that many boxes I have on hand have this problem as sent to me. And that other rounds from totally different batches have been set far back into the case after just one time being chambered! Even in guns with butter smooth feeding. I’m contacting UW to find out if they will handle this issue and replace the ammo with a run that doesn’t do the same thing. Fingers crossed 🤞🏽
EPIC - that 68gn Underwood makes this tiny gun a viable option. Game changer
Yessir😎👍
Long live the jelly man...Maryland checking in..🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Appreciate ya, brother!
Southern Maryland
Baltimore
The jelly waits for no man!
The best jelly on whole youtube. No one comes near💪
Never been much of a .380 guy. But with either of these Underwood rounds, I would definitely consider a small .380 like that as a backup pocket carry in a good pocket holster.
They would do the trick.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets Check out that Civil Defense ammo in 380 it might surprise you 👀
@@xipus08 my second choice to the penetrator and defender. Great rounds especially like to carry the civil defense in the spring and summer.
I could reload them after hitting the jelly……
Good stuff! I agree with you that there really is NOTHING easily available on the market in .380 that expands nicely, while penetrating the 12-18” accepted standard. It’s the reason why the LAPD mandates a Speer FMJ in .380 back-up weapons, because they’d rather have consistent penetration than expansion with shallow penetration.
Thank you sir. Appreciate ya checkin it out!
Agreed, I use in my magazines first are 3 jhp then the rest are Winchester fmj flat points.
He literally tested the Federal Hydra-Shoks 6 months before this video and both expanded to .45 inches while penetrating 14-18 inches. I'd take that over an FMJ every time
@@heyhayhay247
He also did another test with the Hydro Shock Deep with a clothing barrier and they did not do well. They penetrated okay but the hollow point got packed with cloth and the round didn’t expand so there was no wound channel disturbance.
@@dillonh321 so in the summer when no one wears thick clothes, it'll expand and if it doesn't expand, it'll be penetrate. Sounds good to me.
I don't often carry my LCP anymore with so many great micro nine's available but when I do pocket carry it, it's loaded with extreme penetrators. As you said...if not one of these 2, you might as well stick with FMJ. Strong work as usual.
Thank you sir.😎👊
"I can't stand around and wait on the sun to move." That's hilarious, I'm going to use it. While I do not have a 380 I do have a 32 acp and I have learned that the hollow points are pretty useless. I still don't want to be shot with one but I don't want to have my life dependent on it. Not a gun that I carry, I just like to have a box of defense loads or hunting loads for each firearm. It was a cheap Beretta surplus gun.
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Great video!
I have to agree that if choosing a .380 then it’s not worth messing around with hollow points because they never really work anyway. It’s all about the penetration. Same thing if you’re going to carry a .22lr
Thank you sir. Agreed.
Great work. The defender is definitely better at standard pressure. The +P would be interesting to compare.
I have 1000 68gr defender projectiles in a Shipping container on the way here to Australia. Will load them in 9mm, 357 Sig and 350 Legend. Will be interesting to see the velocities I can achieve
Thank you sir. This thing will be a rocket in .350 Legend.😲
In my EZ I carry the Defender for defense in a social situation, and I carry a magazine loaded with Underwood 100gr hardcast in the woods. Std velocity for both. Good comparison.
Good plan.😎👍
These rounds look like gimmicks, but every test I've seen with them in any caliber shows them to be far better than expected pretty much every time I see them. Especially for a 380, wow. Agreed on 380 acp hollow points being lackluster at best.
Thanks for the test man.
Yeah, I think this might be a couple of the few "specialty" type bullets that I actually buy into.
Every test I see using Lehigh defense bullets comes away getting good results, they know what they’re making.
These are gimmicks. No different than fmj other than being copper
@@10oner Every gel test I have seen, as well as Paul Harrel's tests, have shown them to be quite effective. What makes you think they are gimmicks?
Ignorance I imagine. I gotta give Harrel credit, he clearly believes that expansion is the most important thing in pistol and wanted these rounds to fail, but was able to admit they are at least as good as a hollowpoint
Thanks Tools, I now finally have seen & learned the difference between these two rounds. ...I know the results are different for larger calibers, but the wound channel of this .380 ACP test makes it easy to understand at a base level.
Pretty interesting to see the performance difference from the different design.
Being low on the LCP Max makes sense. I went to the range last night and shot mine for the first time in months. That is a PAINFUL gun to shoot!
Love Underwood. Like the open base on the Defender. Both would be great to carry in 380 & good speed for 380 rounds. Very enlightening video. Ruger Security 380 is looking good as a future buy. 👍 👍
At least with these you always know what you're gonna get.😎👍
I got these in .32 acp +p and boy do they pack a punch for that caliber! Certainly make a P-32 a Mighty Mouse gun.
@@ToolsandTargets Same performance from Underwood Hard Cast in 9mm or 38/357. Like a North Dakota snowplow they get it done. Better start taking hot coffee to the Range cause your going to need it.🌨
I have some defenders. I’ve done some redneck test. Deer ribs watermelon and a heavy coat. Don’t think the XTPs don’t perform! I have some precision one XTPs that are great. I love the xtreme defender but it’s hard to keep a large stock for me because of the price. Another great test!👍🏻
@@billdye3530 🥶🥶🥶
I use Extreme Defender and Extreme Hunter rounds in 10mm, 9mm, and 380. All work very well and I've seen what they do in wild game. They don't disappoint.
I carry a Ruger LCP 380 in my mountain bike pack and a Sig P238 in my pocket running errands quite often. I've been using the Extreme Defenders in them and never once felt like they wouldn't do the job.
Copper bad guy stoppers!
Never heard of the extreme hunter. Where did you find that and is it any good? Thanks!!
@@JohnLee-jk5ewthe Hunters are a specific loading for certain calibers at Underwood.
Defender for the win with more damage , thanks for sharing
Agreed.😎👍
Great test, thank you. I just bought a new LCP Max to replace my LCP standard. I've run about 300 rounds of various ammo through it and worked out a few quirks. It's become a very reliable pocket gun. Extreme Defender, is my first choice. I've seen enough tests including with various barriers. Beats all the HPs for consistency in performance. Reminds me of what a boat propeller does to water.
Yeah, no contest as far as consistency. These solids are the way.😎👍
My wife says they look like drill bits 😊
Yes I like the Penetrator, so will be glad to see both of these. (The 90 Grain)
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Yes, I would like to see the +p comparison in the LCP. I am a big fan of the Underwood Xtreme defender line of ammo, I carry the 68 grain +p in my Canik SFX Mete, and the 120 grain +p+ in my .45acp Taurus pt-145 millineum pro. Great ammo for self defense👍👍
Yessir. Hard to go wrong with it.
I have not checked yet....but, we need to be sure the LCP Max is +p rated?? It may be...just not sure.
@@donelladavis171 That's a negative, but wolff make some extra power springs, but the LCP is not plus p rated and not recommended
@@lynch6642 for fuck sake you guy's, the barrels are tool grade steel, send the plus p if you want, good lawd. I bet you wear a mask everywhere they tell you ya have to, jabbed to because work required it right. I smdh.
I would and have both along with fmj ammo.
My Walther PK380 adds about another 100 fps due to a longer barrel, trust me a .380 is no joke, it will get the job done.
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Im carrying a bersa thunder 380 for that same reason longer barrel.
I’ve been wanting to see this test for a long time. Thanks for all of your excellent videos.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you checkin em out!😎👊
The defender is what I carry in my snub 38’s. With the short barrels expansion isn’t always guaranteed. The Black Hills Honey Badger works too. Great video sir, as usual.
Thank you sir. ARX Inceptors also and I think Norma might even make a bullet this style. They all pretty much work the same.😎👍
I don't own a.380 but if I did, would go with the defender. The plus P would be interesting to see. Thanks! Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you too!
Xtreme Defender is a game-changer for the 380. I've seen too many gel test inconsistencies and downright gel test fails with all the best 380 hollow points to bother with any of them. Xtreme Defender 380s behave very consistently, aren't dependent upon expansion, create nice wound channels, get desirable and reliable penetration (12-16 inches from all the gel tests I've seen, neither under-penetrating nor over-penetrating), and are effectively barrier blind. I'm going to shoot up all my various 380 hollow points at the range and Xtreme Defender will be the only defensive ammo going in my 380 pocket pistol.
I traded my 380 in for a 9mm because I started watching the testing. These definitely are a great round for the 380.
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The Defender defends its crown and is my choice as well. Good test never saw Underwood ammo until I picked up on your channel bud. Anyway good test. Nice comparison video. Have a good one Tools and be safe. 🥶⭐️⭐️🇺🇸
Thank you sir. There's no guessing what you might get with these.😎👍
I agree with you about hollow points in a .380. Too slow and light for expanding bullets. As a hunter I can say with confidence that penetration should always come first over expansion. Even in calibers 9mm and up I prefer deep penetrating hollow points like the XTP over something such as the much vaunted HST. An extra few inches of penetration is far more likely to give you a positive effect on target than an additional tenth of an inch of expansion.
Absolutely.😎👊
Thanks! Just acquired some defenders for my .32 acp.
Nice.😎👍
I have seen other tests showing overpenetration with fmj 380's. Would love to be able to just use them but I have never seen a test where these Lehigh Defense rounds do poorly. I guess for pocket 380's, people have to pay a little more to get the performance they want. These rounds do well, clothing barrier or not, and their unique hydraulic braking action works every time. Great test!
Thank you sir.😎👍
They're both great for penetrating soft and hard targets... but the Penetrators definitely seem to have the edge there when it comes to hard barriers like glass, sheet metal and dry wall. If I was carrying a round that I wanted to work in every instance I could think of, they'd both be excellent... but I think I would go with the Penetrators. I don't recall specifically, but (if I recall correctly), the Penetrators were better at not deflecting through barriers also. When going through glass they were more likely to hit close to the point of aim.
Definitely makes sense.
I'm in the mtns of Montana and I carry the Underwood coated hard cast in both the 9mm in my Glock 43x MOS and .38 special in the wife's S&W 340 PD. Don't shoot a lot of either but most of the tests I've seen they seem to do well.
That'll do it.😎👍
👍👍great test. Don’t own a 380 but if I did I’d carry one of these rounds.
Thank you sir.😎👍
Jelly time. Thank you thank you for doing this test. I am a big underwood fan and your exactly right in my pocket carry380 my wife's and daughters 380s that's all I run is the Underwood defender and penetrator. The penetrator are more expensive so after this video I may be totally stuck on the defender. I pack the defender in my 9mm and 40cal also. Just love them the quality and they do the job. Great test!!! Jelly time!!!!
Thank you sir. Appreciate you as always!😎👊
Picked up a couple boxes of Underwood, E.D 9mm 90gr +p and +P+ / Leigh High Defense says the way the E.D. create large wounds channels, is by using hydraulic force to compress, liquid and tissue in inward and then releases it radially, leaves a devastating mess, Thanks For another great video, Stay Safe Brother. 👍🇺🇲👊
You know Wilson combat picked this brand of ammo up and is fixing to start doing some interesting test with it ? That's not too shabby... They use to have around that they used on feral hogs down here in Texas because we were literally wasting 223 ammo on these suckers, they would not respond to getting shot and they used a bonded plus p round, I believe it was controlled chaos ammo by Lehigh...
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Sounds good, Thanks for the 411 on this, I'll be checking that out. 👍
Looking at those chronograph speeds, that things a canon.
Pocket cannon!😆
Yep. I’m sold. I’m switching to Defenders for my LCP (Little Crappy Pistol) 🤣 I don’t carry it often but when I do I need to know the ammo’s effective. Appreciate it.👊🇺🇸👊
Definitely the way if I was carrying it.😎👍
I do run my G42 and as history (meaning other channels that have tested these) I only carry the PENETRATOR (90gr) in my G42, and they are a lite-punch with easy followups. Those tests also encluded various barrier types and the disruption was more consistent than any HPs in the .380ACP market plus penetration EQUAL to my G19/4 or better. So, I believe your testing platform is a little too short in barrel, but they did well even here despite the difference between these two rounds. It is truly hard to find a HP that will penetrate more than 10 inches or even OPEN. Also, I will run ONLY the DEFENDER in my 9mm or higher calibers as the Penetrator is a non-stopper in those higher calibers, and why it works so well in the .380ACP!
Believe me, I would much rather use something else to test with, but people insist on this thing.
@@ToolsandTargets I understand the market as it is. So many aren’t into guns or really performance, just a sense they might have an option should it ever occur. But anything is better than a toothpick.
I agree with you 100% if I had to carry .380 it would be one of these or fmj have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Thank you sir. Have a good weekend!
I understand what fleece is but my cat thinks you're saying fleas and gets very happy each time you shoot those fleas
I always carried Corbon 380s, and consider them superior to most loadings, but I carry underwood’s in many other calibers, and they are excellent. I guess if I ever need anymore 380s. I will get these. Thanks for the video.
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Thanks for the video another great test 👌 👍
Appreciate ya!
Definitely interested in seeing the plus p 380👍
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I carry the 90 grain.
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Super vid, was also curious about both these rounds, thanks!
Thank you sir.😎👊
Ruger says not to use +P in LCP 2. Max prob the same. They are over cautious but, I carry the standard Defender cartridge in my LCP 2. They also say not to carry chambered...I always carry with one in the chamber.
Yeah, I pay exactly zero attention to lawyer recommendations.
Just love this channel - not only good content but your winning personality. Every time I hear your accent I think that if you were my neighbor I'd bring a 6 pack over and talk guns. Just love the country accent.
In this test the Defender is the clear winner. Next test: +P !!!
Thank you sir. Appreciate that!😎👊 +P coming soon.
They performed great for a 380 Round good jelly test Tools Stay Safe Stay 2A Strong 🇺🇸
Yep. Thank you sir.😎👍
Great video. You basically confirm all my research on these bullets in the .380. I feel that Lehigh has transformed the .380 (and also the .32 ACP) into legitimate carry rounds. I carry the Underwood XD +P in my LCP II with confidence. I wouldn't consider carrying FMJs in it, but acknowledge that it would be better than trying to use my fists.
Thank you sir. Great rounds for sure.😎👍
I will be chasing some Extreme Defender for my LCP Max then. 💪 Kudos Jelly King!
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I have three .380’s and each one has a magazine of these extreme defenders in them, and fmj backup mags… the XD’s raise the bar for .380 and I feel pretty well armed with them. Great video as always!
Thank you sir.😎👍
Jelly time!
I really enjoyed the content (especially real world test results) and your upbeat personality.
Penetrators are awesome in 357mag, 10mm and 44mag, I found a video of an 10mm XP piercing an inch or so of bulletproof glass like it was nothing, I suppose that things work the same as a drill. In ballistic gel could be not much different between them but I think that those penetrators work wonders in big animals like bears or mooses and I bet they can trespass a car from door to door. Defenders are great for self defense IMO but I wouldn’t discard having one G20/M&P PC in 10mm loaded with XP in the glove compartment.
Nice penetration..great job with a 380 .
Thanks tools
Thank you sir.😎👊
No problem buddy 👍
THESE IS A AWESOME TEST ...!!!!! GREAT VIDEO .... !!!!! LOVE TO SEE YOU DO A 45 ACP .... !!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND MONEY .... !!!!!!!! ALWAYS ... KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PARK AND THE BASES WERE LOADED..... !!!!!!!! DOUBLE G. HERE ...!!!! GARY ... !!! BRAIN HAVE A VERY GREAT CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR .... !!!!!
Thank you sir. Merry Christmas to you too, brother!
@@ToolsandTargets MUCH BROTHERLY LOVE HERE BRAIN DOUBLE G. GARY..!!!
Man thanks for this video! I wanted the penetrators at first ,but they were out of stock so I went with the standard pressure defenders and this really afirms my choice!
Great rounds for a .380.😎👍
And that's why I've always carried Extreme Defenders in my .380. I also have a bunch in 9mm and 10mm too.
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I've always been a big fan of the Defender. I don't see a need for the Penetrator unless needing to go through a hard barrier like a windshield, car door or a wall.
Like your Ushanka (your hat). Reminds me of the one my grandpa had.
Need to get your hands on a Walther PK380. It's a nice shooting .380. Just watch out for the extractor, some had issues with it.
Thank you sir. Sure keeps ya ears warm!
Good results for .380. Appreciate ya Tools. 🇺🇸
Thank you sir.😎👊
Thanks for the test. Good information on the 380 . Both were close. Looking at wound channel the Defender might be better.
I think so too.😎👍
Nice test and good results Tools. I agree the Defender definitely won out in this test. This is the round to carry if you're going to use a 380.
Have a Merry Christmas my friend. You're videos are the best gift we can get, well almost the best.
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Keep the faith and always be safe Tools
Thank you sir. Enjoy your Sunday!
The defender would be the only round I'd have if I carried 380 again.
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I’ve been waiting for a video like this. I’d like to see the same ammo in 45acp.
I'll see if I can hunt some down.😎👍
Iraqveteran8888 did a video on 45 acp XD. Impressive round. Devastating!
Great tests Tools!! Have a great weekend!
Thank you ma'am. You too!
Yes, I would love to see the plus P perform. Thank you for all your testing and everything you do for us. You are without a doubt my go to source for video on any cartridge test. You just seem to have it together. Good job and keep up the great work!!!!
I carry that gun everyday with that ammo. great video as always
Thank you sir.😎👍
Great video! Hoping for the 10mm 180 grain CCI Blazer flat nose chronograph and jelly time.
Thank you sir. Think I have something I can do there.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets Thank you kind sir!
Tools, this video is money...you hit all the hi points (no pun intended), I agree for .380 the Underwood standard pressure either Penetrator of defender is the premier rounds and you selected the right tool to run them out of, the Ruger LCP Max is the goto when it comes to .380 carry guns. I carry the Max with Underwood standard pressure defenders.......looks good to me. I`m not a +p guy, but I'm sure there are plenty of peeps would like to see the results of the +p as well. Keep up the great work Tools.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that!
Loving these test. Looking for the new Ruger Security-380, if I can find it in stock locally. (Rural King or Sportsman's Warehouse, preferably). When I say locally, I really mean a 2 to 2 1/2 hour round trip.
Thank you sir. Appreciate ya!😎👊
Good luck on finding the Security 380. Every place I've checked hasn't gotten it yet or are already sold out. Prices were between $285 & $325. Hopefully after Christmas we can find it. Security 9 is great but that Lite Rack slide is looking good for Arthritic hands. Good Luck.
Good rounds. I carry full size 9 mm.
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Really shows the difference well. Those Defenders look like much more damage and nearly the same penetration as Penetrators. Great work showing it Tools!
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Shootingthebull410 was my go to ammo tester for the longest,but I believe you have taken over!
Appreciate ya!😎👊
If I had to rely on a 380 I am take every advantage possible. I think I would go Defender. I actually know folk who carry the +p Defender in 380. Thanks
Agreed. Thank you sir.😎👍
Great test Tools ! I carry the Lcp max daily and love it ! will definitely be getting the defender ammo and trying it at the range ! Right now i alternate fmj and federal hp in every clip . I have no doubt that if I had to use it for self defense the 380 would do the job !
fmj is pretty much just as effective in my opinion.😎👍
Thanks for the ammo review. I have not yet had the opportunity to try the 68 grain Underwood Defender or the 90 grain Underwood Penetrator standard pressure ammo.
I have, however, been pleased with the performance of the following ammo in my 4-inch 380 handgun:
100 grain Buffalo Bore flat-nose hard-cast lead
100 grain Ammo Inc. flat-nose FMJ
95 grain Fort Scott solid copper
All good choices in my opinion.😎👍
I need total concealment, so IMHO, nothing can beat the size/firepower ratio of this gun and these rounds. Thanks mostly to your great testing, my carry LCP Max is filled with 13 rounds of Underwood Extreme Defenders.
Further confirmation of my first choice for 380 carry in my Bersa Thunder Plus.
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Im running the defenders in a bersa thunder 380. Very pleased.
That'll do it.😎👍
Good stuff T&T. When I pocket carry it's a Ruger LCP Max with the Extreme Defenders but the +P's. After seeing this video, I feel even more comfortable with this choice.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I'd be interested in seeing the +P version of this test. Because of you, I switched to the +P 68gr Defenders. in my LCP Max.
How much, if any does the temperature make on the jelly test? As always appreciate all the videos keep them coming 👍.
This clear gel isn't water based, so little to none unless you set it out in a blizzard overnight maybe.😆 It's actually pretty crazy to feel how much just shooting it actually warms it up.
Hell yeah run the +P comparison. I have a LCP and want to get the LCP Max.
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Look forward to your afternoon videos. Really enjoy them and thanks. Don't see how your hitting anything with that LCP Max though.😀
Appreciate you checkin em out. It was just luck!😆
Love to see the plus p comparisons for both of those .using same tool as today.
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Good one, Tools! 👍
Been waiting for this test! 😁
The Underwood Xtreme Defender 68gr +P is my main carry load. But, when the winter coats come out, I switch to the Penetrator 90gr +P.
Thank you sir.😎👍
Good Deal! I have both, but have not shot either yet.
Good stuff.😎👍
Much appreciated test, for sure !
Interesting test I’m impressed with those defenders, going to have to get some for my pocket carry.
They definitely impressed.
Very good test Tools! Thanks for testing these in .380 as it restores faith in the cartridge despite it's limited options. 🎩♠️🎱🎯🔱🌻💮🏵️🌸🌼🏴☠️🏹
Thank you sir. 😎👍
Both performed well as it should for the Underwood price tag
You definitely pay for it.😆
I carry the extreme defender in my m&p shield plus and when I’m working I carry the extreme penetrator in my glock 19x wicked rounds
Nice job that ED really pumps that 380 up...good show on a popular cartridge.
Thank you sir.😎👍
Thanks for the great video!
The defender is definitely what i need. Stay safe out there.
I've been trying to decide between these two exact rounds for my girlfriends Ruger LCP. Thanks to this video I've decided to go with the Xtreme defender. Thank you so much for taking the time to compare these two.
Cam't go wrong either way with these.😎👍
The penetrators are no joke. I’ve shot several does with a G19. Each got complete pass the and exit the size of a nickel. Straight through shoulders
Nice 💥🦌💥
Thanks very much for Underwood tests. IMHO there are no better defensive rounds than the Underwood "Extreme" series.
I agree. When I carry a 380 I carry the +P Defender which is about 100 fps faster.
YES, please do the tests with the +P versions. Looking forward to it. Thanks for all the great videos
Will do. Appreciate ya!😎👍
Glock 42 + Underwood Extreme Defender is the only reason I even considered .380 as a carry option
Definitely the way to go.
My Lw Seecamp lvs the defenders. Turns it into a real performer. Great test.
Thanks! You always know what you're gonna get from these rounds for sure.😎👍
You're the man! I have such a stockpile of effective rounds only none of that falsely advertised nonsense and I have you to thank for it! I feel safer not being as ignorant as I was before I found your channel. Thank you for spending your hard earned dollar and your time worth even more than that dollar to supply this content! I am having a hard time deciding but that wound channel from the 68 grain doesn't lie.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that. I don't think there's a wrong answer with either of these.😎👊
I love the defender it's a great round to shoot out of my Glock 19.
I like that bigger flutes and makes the much bigger would channel.
They definitely do.