Beefy Smash Doods always put so much effort into their videos and they have so much replayability. My Smash Corner and BSD have the most insightful Smash 4 tech videos on YT! Good job, guys ! :)
I think some people may have missed the quotations around CPU... But Llama Puddle is definitely making a good point. After all, with the whole amiibo thing showing just how capable the AI is in the new Smash Bros, it's possible that it could have been an actual CPU doing that there too. But, yeah... it might be the safest route and just say "Both" here!
For any Lucario players, these are some 2 Frame Punish moves: high percent Aura Sphere, very high percent Aura Sphere Charge on large characters, high percent ( or AE)Force Palm, Dtilt, Ftilt, and UpB.
+Zax I especially love the people who sit on the edge to wait it out. Boy, do they get surprised when death flies at them and their still on the ledge.
Mario and Dr. Mario also have their dash attacks as possible 2-frame punishes, as they function similarly to Cloud's and Mega Man's down tilts, except that they last longer which provides a better timing for it. Not only that, but they also work for their own advantages, depending if you are Mario or Doc. Mario's dash attack semi-stage spikes when performed as a 2-frame punish, setting up a possible fair follow up or a finisher of some kind. Meanwhile, Doc's sends the opponent upwards, allowing Doc to perform combos such as dash attack to up air, dash attack to up B (depending on the %s the opponent has), dash attack to nair, dash attack to tornado, and so on.
For you Bidou users out there, you can really easily do a Beefy Up-B by using your C stick to do your Up-B, and holding down on your main control stick.
+ChillTerumi Hey, fair enough, it is pretty easy. In my experience I can do it more consistently with the method I described. Whatever you are most comfortable with is fine with me, you do you my friend.
5:00 Link and Toon Link can also use that same trick with their Bombs in the same manner that'll perhaps allow them to set up for a Dair spike. It'll probably be more optimal with the spike of Link's Dair since Toon Link's Dair will mainly result in his death even when he gets the spike off.
T.J. Thorsen Another way that I think Link can pull off a 2-Frame Punish would be to let a Bomb bounce off the stage wall and setup for an Aerial. If he does it a bit early, then there's a possibility for him to re-grab the bomb, depending on how it bounces off the stage wall, which'll help make it back even if he whiffs a certain lingering Aerial such as his Dair or Uair. Btw, I'm a Link main as well.
T.J. Thorsen If you want to find any more tricks and techniques that Link can do, check out the Link Meta forum on Smashboards. I one of the members working on that forum with a couple of other Link mains.
JohnKnight416 Cool, thanks! Do you think the jump cancel glide toss is useful for Link? I can perform it upwards consistently, but with inconsistent follow-ups.
This explains why I sometimes get my double back while recovering- I actually did reach the ledge, I was just punched so fast I didn't even realize it.
This was something I've certainly heard about quite a while ago, and on paper it seemed like a much easier punish to pull off than I guess actually happens in practice. Now I know a little bit about why at least.
My first thought was actually Alpharad's Cloud 101, when he downsmashed a Cloud beneath him on a platform and caused him to slam into the lip of the stage instead of grabbing the ledge.
The down-b spike hitbox is too inconsistent but I see you if you're using the windbox to gimp teleport characters lol. Din's Fire is not that bad and it kills pretty early but I'd usually just opt-in for the more optimal dair or ledge trump > bair.
About those exceptions for recoveries that can move down into a ledge and still be invulnerable, all characters that are capable of moving downward with a move that ledgsnaps has the same possibility. Fox, Falco, Pikachu, etc. The difference is that they fail the smart bomb test since those moves don't grant any I-frames by design like the teleport recoveries will. You know the teleports work because the explosion is covering the ledge when they grab it. But for other characters that don't disappear, the explosion hits them before they begin the ledge snap, or they manage a ledge snap because you grabbed too early for the explosion to cover the ledge.
Multi hit attacks can work as well. Like Lucas's Down B. I find it easier be cause if you use it a little bit before they get near the ledge, the multi-hitbox is sure to get them
Great video. I'm at least glad that the 2-frame punish exists since the ledge trumps might end up not even an option that is worth going for since the person recovering has more options to safely avoid it than to get trumped. Or maybe it already is the case. Idk
Ikes Eruption is one of the best 2-frame punishes in the game. You charge the move, and let go on reaction as you see your opponent getting close to the ledge (dont use against certain hitbox recoveries like metaknights Up B or in a mirror Aether). With enough practice against various moves, you can probably land the hit about 7/10 times. And with the charge and insane damage/KBG this move offers, you can kill at like 70s and 60s with it Use the massive range on his fair to prevent opponents from coming straight back to the stage, and condition them not to come high with his upsmash and uptilt. Then, once they learn to go low, use his Eruption. This move not only covers the 2 frame punish, but the beefy Up B as well (long lasting, wide hitbox, and super armor when charged eruption is released)
Awesome work as always. It's a lot of work but it'd be great if you had some sort of list of moves each character can do to get the 2-frame punish. I guess technically anyone can do it by jumping off and coming back with an aerial but some moves I would have never known reached below the stage like Fox's up tilt for example.
Little macs dsmash works extremely well, since it has super armor. It can go through the "beefy" up special and getting hit from under the stage with recoveries like zss.
I like to protect the ledge with fox's up b, because t lingers before you move, it's punishable and easily gimped but the 2 frame punish is easy to pull off
There is one more exception you prob didn't know. If greninja uses his hydro pump and gets the animation where he head bonks the stage but the animation gets cancelled by him grabbing the ledge, he cannot be 2 framed
Little Macs D-tilt is really good for this. I spam Little Macs D-tilt for this and it even gives me follow ups. Marth mains can also do this using their D-tilt and space it for the tipper.
ehh I already learned through battles that edge grabbing could be punished. The only thing I really learned from this video was the name 2 Frame Punish. But I guess it helps some newcomers. nice vid
Moves that are active for a long time and have big hit boxes. With big hitboxes like ness's yoyo which went through the map hit him way before he can grab the ledge. That takes the whole point out of timing when Ness literally had both.
Yeah, it's pretty fast, so it can catch the 2 frames somewhat reliably. Hooking a strong Dtilt into a sh Dair sounds like fun too, depending on percents.
You can also use his down smash. It's one Ryu's fastest move in his arsenal. Weak knockback but does good damage, has some range and also good for 2 frame punishes.
I'm pretty glad that Peach has a great up-special, it's pretty rare I ever get punished and the the hit-box of her parasol is always active making it harder to hit/gimp her.
+DryBonesandSilver or when you miss the attack but your opponent ends up avoiding the hit, so recover safely with no punishment. It's the best when they back up in fear.
+NeNe73224 Hahaha right? Another trick I've gotten to use is to pull toad out before recovering to grab a counter in to pressure them. It's pretty useful against offensive players, especially since people tend to forget Peach has a counter
+DryBonesandSilver her counter is both good and bad, it works best when the hit is close range cause they'll get hit by the multi hit of the move. I use it occasionally cause it throws people off. And that's interesting how you use it to recover I never thought of that.
Thanks. As a zelda main, I was a bit troubled with Ike's Nuetral B. I usually tried to stall for time, and thus end recovering from below. It's quite easy to SD when teleporting from above though...
As I was watching this video I was playing on for glory and I got a 2 frame punish that killed at 9% with captain falcon's side-b and also my opponent falcon punched when you falcon punched at the end. So magical
let me tell you lucas's down smash is the best for doing a 2 frame with its 3 hits, great knock back, and great range when used in the edge I have killed some stocks at 50% with this. Great vid btw=)
I've encountered this before when I perfectly time Corrin's D-Tilt on a recovering opponent. It's pretty useful when I want to combo them with an U-Air or possibly a DFS. Just didn't know that it was called that
Could you PLEASE make a video on punishing Villager's recovery? He's one of my worst MU'S, and I often find my self going for his balloons, but often find myself hitting him with weak but precise moves, or he'll mix up his recovery. It'd be greatly appreciated!
he has no hit boxes on his up b, so just spike him? depends on the character youre playing, you dont need to worry about him hitting you back so just toss out whatever damage you can hit him with
I play kirby and puff..... I don't think I will be ever 2-frame-punished. But it's good to know this, and I might use it to edge guard opponents. Great video!
Mario's dash attack is really good at punishing the two frames if you time it right if they are grabbing the ledge underneath the stage. The opponent gets stage spiked by it because of the high base knockback. xD
+KvatchIsInDanger Well it's kinda true since the clean dash attack hitbox sends your opponent forward, and the late hitbox sends your opponent behind you, possibly stage spiking them in the process depending on the stage. I main Mario and I know the ups and downs on his attacks.
+Dr. Nyxael Ayala I totally agree with you. A friend of mine is a really good Mario. He gets me and other people with it here and there. I just don't think it should be in the game. He can safely throw out dash attacks at the ledge that spike pretty much everyone besides Villager. At like 40%. Low risk/high reward is bad for fighting games, imo.
+KvatchIsInDanger It's not the end of the world if you get hit, remember that you'll get your double jump back. If the late hitbox hits you, you can actually tech the hit on Battlefield if you are super quick, since you aren't right next to the wall/ceiling. On flat Omega Stages that have walls, the dash attack will simply pop you behind me, since the late attack will send you diagonally backwards.
Beefies! A question: as you said around 6:41, technically you are grabbing the ledge and regains the double jump, so does that means you won't get ledge invincibility when you reach the ledge again?
You will get it back because you were hit off of it. You only don't get invincibility if you go back to the ledge without touching the stage or being hit
Yea but his spikes in general have a sort of 'unf' when they hit that they just drive me straight up the wall when I land one, ESPECIALLY if it's against a sheik while recovering: "Yea that's right! Ganon can edgeguard too y'fucker!"
The year is 20FF. 2-frame punish is perfected. Ledge is not safe. Villager is top tier.
Just noticed you in a sea of comments lol
I find Villager the easiest to do it with.
wait my smash corner has a sense of humor? i thought he was a robot
Can Luma help Rosalina With 2-Frames somehow?
My Smash Corner villager main unite
I wasn't aware of the "hold down to pass ledge" option. Thanks for the tip
They actually have a whole video about this, look up the "Beefy Up-B".
same
as a samus main i realized it but didnt know how i was doing it. they confirmed it
It was even possible in brawl. Its way older than the beefy smash doods
+Sporkyz74 should called it the up-beef
I started to pay attention to how detailed Rosaluma's up-b is instead of the tutorial.
Same lol
Beefy Smash Doods always put so much effort into their videos and they have so much replayability. My Smash Corner and BSD have the most insightful Smash 4 tech videos on YT! Good job, guys ! :)
This is my chance to get frameous
I'll be here all week folks
Noooo
+Aden B yesss
...Where are those crickets? They're late!
I will punish you for that joke.
Anybody? No...? Ok
That a good un
I got double two-framed as Sheik in online matches yesterday. Perfect timing, BSD!
Dat Falcon Punch at the end doe
Definitively !
Scariest part about the Falcon Punch at the end, a "CPU" did it.
+WaddlerD it was in training mode, so it was just another human
You can set it to control so a human controls the CPU.
I think some people may have missed the quotations around CPU... But Llama Puddle is definitely making a good point. After all, with the whole amiibo thing showing just how capable the AI is in the new Smash Bros, it's possible that it could have been an actual CPU doing that there too. But, yeah... it might be the safest route and just say "Both" here!
every time i see a new beefy vid i get so excited
you shouldve talked about using dededes gordo into the ledge as a two frame punish
For any Lucario players, these are some 2 Frame Punish moves:
high percent Aura Sphere,
very high percent Aura Sphere Charge on large characters,
high percent ( or AE)Force Palm,
Dtilt,
Ftilt,
and UpB.
I absolutely love it when my opponent doesn't know I can get the 2 frame with the Aura Sphere :)
+Zax I especially love the people who sit on the edge to wait it out. Boy, do they get surprised when death flies at them and their still on the ledge.
Can you do a footstool on the 2 frame punish, if so is it a special footstool or a regular footstool?
I meant specifically during the two frames where they have yet to grab the ledge. Though it would probably be the same outcome.
+Ludwig Anders Gaming The 2-frame window of vulnerability occurs only when the character is grabbing the ledge.
+Ludwig Anders Gaming It still counts as a ledge grab due to the double jump recovery.
Mario and Dr. Mario also have their dash attacks as possible 2-frame punishes, as they function similarly to Cloud's and Mega Man's down tilts, except that they last longer which provides a better timing for it. Not only that, but they also work for their own advantages, depending if you are Mario or Doc. Mario's dash attack semi-stage spikes when performed as a 2-frame punish, setting up a possible fair follow up or a finisher of some kind. Meanwhile, Doc's sends the opponent upwards, allowing Doc to perform combos such as dash attack to up air, dash attack to up B (depending on the %s the opponent has), dash attack to nair, dash attack to tornado, and so on.
Did you use it already?
No, my Fox just got a lot better :)
Sometimes yes
I just pinball people with D3's gordo
Great video! you deserve more subs!!!!!!!!
yes
Clicked to learn how to 2-frame punish
Accidentally learned how to play Shiek
Wtf
Fantastic and insightful video, like always. I really hope "beefy up-b" becomes a thing in high-level commentary
Thanks. This gives a lot more clarification for how to do it, who can do it, and applications. Great video, as always!
how did you get that profile picture lol
+HG | Meta don't remember. My b
+Ken Grimm @chillin
the fact that you get your double jump back when hit with a 2 frame punish makes sense very nice awesome and very helpful video
Something about this thumbnail is appealing
Rosaluma about to get 2-framed
Ike's Eruption makes especially good use of this. ^-^
Xuan Wu Yeah Ike is my main and after I found out that 2framing is a thing, the eruption scares the shit out of my friends^^
Cloud is my main.
Thanks for all your effort into helping me and other smash players. Keep up the good work
4:10 Talk about combo, show bayonetta
Seems like Bayo salt is here to stay, even after nerfs.
Ikr
+Brian Amusat it's never going to go away, sadly.
I've been curious about this for a while. thanks for uploading this👌
Beefy Smash Doods ihr macht das richtig gut! Weiter so und ihr knackt 100.000 abonennten mit Leichtigkeit!
Your videos are so professional and informative. You deserve so many subs than you have
So many more*
love the new logo
That reverse falcon punch at the end though, that cpu is a savage!
It IS controlled by someone, the cpu cant do it lol 😂
Now everything makes sense now
bring back the old logo this steak is too subtle
Great content! Ive always wanted to learn about the higher level stuff and i didnt find them on youtube but now thanks to you I did :)
The thumbnail for this video is so good you could almost call it clickbait 😂
Congrautulation for 80.000 Subscriber
always excited for your videos!
For you Bidou users out there, you can really easily do a Beefy Up-B by using your C stick to do your Up-B, and holding down on your main control stick.
the regular way to do it isn't very hard, though, so i probably won't be using that.
The regular way to do it varies from character to character, IIRC, just like the benefits of bidou itself.
+mariofan38 Fair point, I think you're correct.
+ChillTerumi Hey, fair enough, it is pretty easy. In my experience I can do it more consistently with the method I described. Whatever you are most comfortable with is fine with me, you do you my friend.
It's not very hard in the first place, unless you have an up b that can be angled down, then it's slightly harder.
nice explanation dude, i think i'll take a look to other of your videos because I really learned something really useful to my matches, thanks!
5:00 Link and Toon Link can also use that same trick with their Bombs in the same manner that'll perhaps allow them to set up for a Dair spike. It'll probably be more optimal with the spike of Link's Dair since Toon Link's Dair will mainly result in his death even when he gets the spike off.
That is good, but you can apparently Z-air trump to D-air with Link, which is probably much easier (I main Link, but have never tried it personally).
T.J. Thorsen Another way that I think Link can pull off a 2-Frame Punish would be to let a Bomb bounce off the stage wall and setup for an Aerial. If he does it a bit early, then there's a possibility for him to re-grab the bomb, depending on how it bounces off the stage wall, which'll help make it back even if he whiffs a certain lingering Aerial such as his Dair or Uair.
Btw, I'm a Link main as well.
JohnKnight416 Yeah, that would work quite well.
T.J. Thorsen If you want to find any more tricks and techniques that Link can do, check out the Link Meta forum on Smashboards. I one of the members working on that forum with a couple of other Link mains.
JohnKnight416 Cool, thanks! Do you think the jump cancel glide toss is useful for Link? I can perform it upwards consistently, but with inconsistent follow-ups.
I like how they just cut to the next clip after the second ABK lol 4:09
Beefy, you should talk about the frame punish covering what happens after the ledge, the getups!
Exactly 80K suscribers right now! Congratulations!!!
19 more :0
133 more
This explains why I sometimes get my double back while recovering- I actually did reach the ledge, I was just punched so fast I didn't even realize it.
Nice vid. I'm surprised Clouds limit blade beam wasn't mentioned. It's extremely good at 2-framing ppl and a very difficult stage spike to tech
This was something I've certainly heard about quite a while ago, and on paper it seemed like a much easier punish to pull off than I guess actually happens in practice. Now I know a little bit about why at least.
A cool 2 frames punish for Ike is using Eruption since the tip hitbox last for 7 frames.
My first thought was actually Alpharad's Cloud 101, when he downsmashed a Cloud beneath him on a platform and caused him to slam into the lip of the stage instead of grabbing the ledge.
Zelda's down tilt and down b are also great for making 2 frame punishes
lol zelda's down-b
The down-b spike hitbox is too inconsistent but I see you if you're using the windbox to gimp teleport characters lol. Din's Fire is not that bad and it kills pretty early but I'd usually just opt-in for the more optimal dair or ledge trump > bair.
Wow this was very helpful and informative! I love to play Smash, and this is gonna help me get better at it! Thanks Beefy Smash Doods! Stay beefybeefy
God damn it, I love this channel so much I just can't stand it!
This was great! Very informative!
About those exceptions for recoveries that can move down into a ledge and still be invulnerable, all characters that are capable of moving downward with a move that ledgsnaps has the same possibility. Fox, Falco, Pikachu, etc. The difference is that they fail the smart bomb test since those moves don't grant any I-frames by design like the teleport recoveries will. You know the teleports work because the explosion is covering the ledge when they grab it. But for other characters that don't disappear, the explosion hits them before they begin the ledge snap, or they manage a ledge snap because you grabbed too early for the explosion to cover the ledge.
2 frame punish with Eruption is the hypest move in the game.
it's also worth noting certain tilts like Fox's up air come out in only 2 frames
This is a great and informative video, good job guys!
That explains how I sort of spiked Captain Falcon with Corrin's Down air. I was more confused than amazed though. haha.
Multi hit attacks can work as well. Like Lucas's Down B. I find it easier be cause if you use it a little bit before they get near the ledge, the multi-hitbox is sure to get them
Thats why sheik mains like to recover from about the ledge! Finally got it :D
Great video. I'm at least glad that the 2-frame punish exists since the ledge trumps might end up not even an option that is worth going for since the person recovering has more options to safely avoid it than to get trumped. Or maybe it already is the case. Idk
Ikes Eruption is one of the best 2-frame punishes in the game. You charge the move, and let go on reaction as you see your opponent getting close to the ledge (dont use against certain hitbox recoveries like metaknights Up B or in a mirror Aether). With enough practice against various moves, you can probably land the hit about 7/10 times. And with the charge and insane damage/KBG this move offers, you can kill at like 70s and 60s with it
Use the massive range on his fair to prevent opponents from coming straight back to the stage, and condition them not to come high with his upsmash and uptilt. Then, once they learn to go low, use his Eruption. This move not only covers the 2 frame punish, but the beefy Up B as well (long lasting, wide hitbox, and super armor when charged eruption is released)
Beefy up-b Pikachu sounds like a frame-perfect tech
These are sick videos
Thanks BSD :D
God damn shout out to beefysmashdoods for the this amazing video!
Awesome work as always. It's a lot of work but it'd be great if you had some sort of list of moves each character can do to get the 2-frame punish. I guess technically anyone can do it by jumping off and coming back with an aerial but some moves I would have never known reached below the stage like Fox's up tilt for example.
C-5 more like beef pie
I got nothing original...
4:11 You know what else is an amazing tool for punishing those 2 vulnerable frames? Luigi's down-taunt #revenge
Does Shadow Sneak counts as a teleport from above?
Greninja doesn't grab the ledge immediately after the move, so I don't think so.
Thanks!
+LyonnDRC Metaknight maybe?
Yeah, it should apply to Metaknight.
Holaaaaa
Haz un vídeo sobre esto c:
Little macs dsmash works extremely well, since it has super armor. It can go through the "beefy" up special and getting hit from under the stage with recoveries like zss.
I like to protect the ledge with fox's up b, because t lingers before you move, it's punishable and easily gimped but the 2 frame punish is easy to pull off
I think falco's would be better bcause it has multiple hits
Great video man
There is one more exception you prob didn't know. If greninja uses his hydro pump and gets the animation where he head bonks the stage but the animation gets cancelled by him grabbing the ledge, he cannot be 2 framed
Well that explains a lot more of what I didn't understand about this
Little Macs D-tilt is really good for this. I spam Little Macs D-tilt for this and it even gives me follow ups. Marth mains can also do this using their D-tilt and space it for the tipper.
Finally! Someone explains how to z-air!
ehh I already learned through battles that edge grabbing could be punished. The only thing I really learned from this video was the name 2 Frame Punish. But I guess it helps some newcomers. nice vid
Moves that are active for a long time and have big hit boxes. With big hitboxes like ness's yoyo which went through the map hit him way before he can grab the ledge. That takes the whole point out of timing when Ness literally had both.
What about ryus down weak tilt? I use that.
Yeah, it's pretty fast, so it can catch the 2 frames somewhat reliably. Hooking a strong Dtilt into a sh Dair sounds like fun too, depending on percents.
You can also use his down smash. It's one Ryu's fastest move in his arsenal. Weak knockback but does good damage, has some range and also good for 2 frame punishes.
I mostly get that 2-frame punish using ZSS' Flip Kick and Lucina's Down Tilt and Down Smash.
Mario's dash attack is probably the safest option. It stays out forever and can semi-spike on trapezoid stages.
I two framed with a pocketed tree
Love this punish with ganondorfs up-tilt.
probably the most rewarding punish for a 2 frame hahaha they just die most of the time
+Extrabittles sadly its has a lot of lag :( . so if you miis they probably will punish u.
I'm pretty glad that Peach has a great up-special, it's pretty rare I ever get punished and the the hit-box of her parasol is always active making it harder to hit/gimp her.
Same! Sometimes I also ignore the ledge just connect all the hits of her up special and surprise my opponent.
+DryBonesandSilver or when you miss the attack but your opponent ends up avoiding the hit, so recover safely with no punishment. It's the best when they back up in fear.
+NeNe73224 Hahaha right? Another trick I've gotten to use is to pull toad out before recovering to grab a counter in to pressure them. It's pretty useful against offensive players, especially since people tend to forget Peach has a counter
+DryBonesandSilver her counter is both good and bad, it works best when the hit is close range cause they'll get hit by the multi hit of the move. I use it occasionally cause it throws people off. And that's interesting how you use it to recover I never thought of that.
+NeNe73224 yeah true. Definitely an upgrade from brawl. I've gotten KOs from it at around 150/160 against smaller/med characters
Thanks. As a zelda main, I was a bit troubled with Ike's Nuetral B. I usually tried to stall for time, and thus end recovering from below. It's quite easy to SD when teleporting from above though...
Hitting Ike himself is an option too, but it's also risky.
Excellent video
As I was watching this video I was playing on for glory and I got a 2 frame punish that killed at 9% with captain falcon's side-b and also my opponent falcon punched when you falcon punched at the end. So magical
Yay! New video!
the most satisfying 2 frame punish is with marth's tipper forward smash.
I agree so much. Its fun to do it on Fox and Falco's side-b
Its like you got that profile pic just to say that! :D
let me tell you lucas's down smash is the best for doing a 2 frame with its 3 hits, great knock back, and great range when used in the edge I have killed some stocks at 50% with this. Great vid btw=)
Yeah he's my first tied with Ness
I've encountered this before when I perfectly time Corrin's D-Tilt on a recovering opponent. It's pretty useful when I want to combo them with an U-Air or possibly a DFS. Just didn't know that it was called that
last episode: "inta-ga-ble"
this episode: "intangible"
the adaptation is real.
Today I 2-framed a nerd on for glory with the falcon stomp it was fun putting that one on RUclips
Could you PLEASE make a video on punishing Villager's recovery? He's one of my worst MU'S, and I often find my self going for his balloons, but often find myself hitting him with weak but precise moves, or he'll mix up his recovery. It'd be greatly appreciated!
he has no hit boxes on his up b, so just spike him? depends on the character youre playing, you dont need to worry about him hitting you back so just toss out whatever damage you can hit him with
I play kirby and puff..... I don't think I will be ever 2-frame-punished. But it's good to know this, and I might use it to edge guard opponents. Great video!
if you're Puff you're *very* valnurable off-stage. She has no "Recovery" moves except pound.
+why yeah, but since she has no actual upB and pound is already super unsafe, the 2 frames don't really matter
Well, this explains a lot. Thanks guys!
You guys should investigate super pivots for your next video!
Mario's dash attack is really good at punishing the two frames if you time it right if they are grabbing the ledge underneath the stage. The opponent gets stage spiked by it because of the high base knockback. xD
Yeah it is absurd. A safe option the leads to a spike. Get out of here.
+KvatchIsInDanger Well it's kinda true since the clean dash attack hitbox sends your opponent forward, and the late hitbox sends your opponent behind you, possibly stage spiking them in the process depending on the stage. I main Mario and I know the ups and downs on his attacks.
+Dr. Nyxael Ayala I totally agree with you. A friend of mine is a really good Mario. He gets me and other people with it here and there.
I just don't think it should be in the game. He can safely throw out dash attacks at the ledge that spike pretty much everyone besides Villager. At like 40%. Low risk/high reward is bad for fighting games, imo.
+KvatchIsInDanger It's not the end of the world if you get hit, remember that you'll get your double jump back. If the late hitbox hits you, you can actually tech the hit on Battlefield if you are super quick, since you aren't right next to the wall/ceiling. On flat Omega Stages that have walls, the dash attack will simply pop you behind me, since the late attack will send you diagonally backwards.
That m2k 2 Frame punish on zer0 was the hypest shit
I KNEW THE BEEFY UP-B WOULD BE HERE. I was wondering what took them so long to point it out.
You should have talked about the use of a get up attack while on the ledge to 2 Frame punish someone trying to grab the ledge
The best one is Kirby's inhale. Suck them up and go down with them.
Muy bien explicado! excelente video
Beefies! A question: as you said around 6:41, technically you are grabbing the ledge and regains the double jump, so does that means you won't get ledge invincibility when you reach the ledge again?
You will get it back because you were hit off of it. You only don't get invincibility if you go back to the ledge without touching the stage or being hit
i usually use the 2 frame punish with Lucas's Down Smash
My favorite 2 frame punish is a extended waft with the bike!
mine is ganons on ledge dair, I don't hit it often against teleporters but when I do it just feels so satisfying.
slashbaker 25 I can believe that, but to be far any of Ganon's attacks feel great when you land it!
Yea but his spikes in general have a sort of 'unf' when they hit that they just drive me straight up the wall when I land one, ESPECIALLY if it's against a sheik while recovering: "Yea that's right! Ganon can edgeguard too y'fucker!"
slashbaker 25 lol , His. down air makes the game freeze for a second to make sure opponent knows they screwd up.