Echo, Jocko if you read this; your podcast saved me form killing myself in the summer. I've never had this perspective, the responsability, ownership and discipline part of life. It's disgusting I know, 24 and waste of life you guys are the closest thing to a good male figure I've had in my life so thank you so much, I know you're just doing your thing but still thanks guys for giving me something I could never find on my own.
Your best friends are awareness and disipline. Those attitudes and behaviors, as well as relationships with other people and being friendly, respecting people's boundaries and having your own will help you.
Loved the final comment by Jocko: that was a good steak. As a chef in training, one day I hope to serve the two of you. You've helped me deal with uncooperative, disrespectful, arrogant coworkers. I'll cook you up something something special out of my personal recipe list, given some time to prepare ofcourse :D
Okay, legit question: Taking ownership and enacting a plan may solve the immediate problem with this guys "zones". However, the greater problem is an incompetent boss. How do you fix that? Can you? If they are incapable of proper leadership, do you point that out or just leave?
I'd suggest you listen through the whole letter again, and take notes if you have to. A couple things worth notice include a COMPLETE LACK of even suggesting the writer had any culpability or responsibility in the whole dynamic. He just carried on about the complaints about this supervisor, and being two men down on his team...etc...etc... Then, we can get into "Exactly HOW does this guy offer his feedback?" Does he just wait until the supervisor starts pointing out how his numbers are down, and suddenly burst forth with an explative laced rant about being two guys down and whatever percentage of production is GOING to be lost by the percentage of the team that's NOT there? You do that and it's not going to be a friendly conversation... and it can very really get you fired on the spot. Does he (perhaps) consistently show up at the supervisor's desk with a laundry list of questions and complaints with the simple "...and I don't know what else to do." punctuation??? Bosses who expect team-work and thinking on your own really HATE to have a non-stop complainer who never offers a suggestion or solution, and a LOT of places that offer relative autonomy can't even function with a guy who has to go back to mommy and ask what to do next. Finally, and pay extra close attention to this point, this writer ASSUMES from his supervisor's supposed position and some background that the guy ALREADY knows enough to JUST automagically understand from his perspective... This could be a fraudian slip of omission. Assuming someone can already figure your perspective in an argument is presumptively holding them accountable for information they may not have. Sure, you both might be the same major in college and have the same degree, so a LOT of your educational background might be similar enough... BUT one of you may have also spent a couple years working as a Diesel Mechanic, while the other one only needed to work summers renting out golf carts at a country club... You absolutely CAN NOT EVER assume someone understands your position or perspective when you present an argument. You're better off to assume your boss is a completely illiterate and uneducated idiot, so you'll slow the roll a bit, break down the information into very easily manageable chunks and remember some practically universal parallels and metaphors for comparisons for him/her... Then WHILE you're presenting your "side" of the discussion, you can either ask if they understand it, or watch for a sign of boredom... Only rarely have I ever had to ask someone "Okay, boss... What is it that you don't understand?" Most of the time, it's not rocket-science to figure out someone "gets" the material as you present it. Especially when stress builds the pressure up, it's easy to lose track and get excited, usually too excited for your own good. SLOW DOWN!!! Make sure you're not racing in leaps and bounds while the boss is hearing a babbling moron spit out garbage that doesn't make any sense. I suspect, there's some culpability on both sides in this one. The boss might assume this guy knows or understands more than he really does, too... BUT that bit about "because he's a Business Manager I would think he understands my perspective" is clearly assuming too much... ;o)
@@puckhermes2474 Okay... "on paper" the hierarchy structure seems to look like "boss lays out orders, and workers perform those orders... period". In real life application, however, that doesn't tend to work well. I'll give you the same advice I've already posted. Listen to the letter Echo reads again... and listen carefully. This writer goes on at length to present his case, how incompetent he sees his "boss" (supervisor) acting... Feedback can be encouraged, and should be encouraged between workers and supervisors. Bosses aren't some kind of weird noble caste that sprang out of the ether to tell you what to do... They've been workers (most of them anyways) just the same. A supervisor or Boss, simply put, is a coordinator. It's up to Him or Her to see to it, the relevant workers on station don't spend energy uselessly running over each other and bickering about stuff not being on time... That's pretty much it. There's book-keeping for updating owners or stock holders on quotas and sustainable target figures, marketing... etc...etc..etc.. BUT the huge great service of a supervisor is that every step of an operation goes on "just in time"... for the next. This writer is still assuming the supervisor has exactly his own mindset and perspective in mind with his "method" of feedback, and like I pointed out, asking a question isn't an attack unless you're "Asking what the fuck else am I supposed to do?" quote-unquote... Admitting a shortcoming doesn't get you fired, and pointing out the simple math that two guys down from a five-guy team is a 40% shortfall in guys isn't necessarily a bad idea (just for the record)... BUT you should still approach this exposition to a boss with a modicum of respect. Not just ask flat-out, "How the fuck do you expect me to fucking get 100% quota with only 60% fucking guys?! Huh, asshole?" It's not "ass-kissing" to be able to point out the simple math without defaulting to a verbal assault... and I suspect this writer hasn't been entirely honest about his approach to "feedback" because almost nobody willingly admits to their own failures. We (humans) tend to write about ourselves as if we (authors) have no faults to admit... That's all I'm trying to point out... in a nutshell. More pointedly, no, there's no unraveling of hierarchical structures when a small employee approaches a BIG bossman with relevant feedback, whether questioning how things are "normally done" or just offering a "new idea" or "innovation" that might actually help out around the job-site. It's a tough market out there, and any innovation toward an advantage (normally) is greatly appreciated without regard to who or where it came from. You can't always expect a Boss to pointedly remark that YOU (employee) came up with a credible idea... BUT you can't function in today's market without new and fresh ideas for advancing the business your in, ANY business. ;o)
Echo is right. I remember that study while in my undergrad for psych. Women remember/relay directions better from landmarks and men are more prone to compass orientation (NESW).
In other words treat people with respect. No matter if you think you don't like them at first. Give them a chance. Be open-minded. Create a healthy relationship with them. Ask questions and talk with them. Be kind. Don't unfairly judge them. Explain yourself. Sum up and say how you feel and who you agree with. 😎😊👍👍
"If you don't design your own life's plan. Chances are you'll fall into somebody else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." Jim Rohn
it makes me cringe how they have to walk on eggshells just to discuss differences between women and men, congrats third-wave feminists you did it! now we can all suck it.
LOL I loved this one! You guys having to "tip-toe" around the mine field of feminism so you can say the truth without actually "saying" the truth. Men and women are COMPLETELY different in our learning, processing and communicating, "men are not just furry women with different plumbing," -Alison Armstrong. As a matter of opinion, I would prefer that the men whom are protecting and defending to NOT be relaxed when they are on duty. As a female that basks in femininity and loves masculine presence, I prefer a male voice on my GPS.
8th grade physics class we made little models of various machines. A duo of girls made a helicopter without a tail rotor. The mistake was obvious to every boy in class but the girls were oblivious. They still got an A.
At 02:02 Jocko: “And maybe that disgusts you!” Echo: *nearly falls out of his chair with laughter* Some people say that squirrels are their spirit animal. Echo is mine.
SHUTCHERMOUTH!!! BE DISCIPLINED! TAKE ACTION! DON'T ARGUE! GIRLS AND GUYS CAN AND DO EXPLAIN CORRECTLY! THANK YOU!!! 😎😊😀👍👍😇❤️ MUCH RESPECT & APPRECIATION!!
6:54 in Why do they disgust you or "us" , for me this is the fundamental fault line , that is get in the game . I do like the second world war analogy and the demarcation lines are clearer the getting in the game initially a lot of people did , with the promise that Germany would be great again ,has kind of primitive tribal pull to it , thank God we often say somebody knows what they are about . The very real problem is that people who tend to disgust us have deeper unresolved psychodynamic issues they instinctively avoid looking at , they usually compensate by all most reactive dominant or passive aggressive strategies that help them to stay on top ! The classics are Hitler ( Judas) and so on , many are very clever , the Jim Jone's and Osho's etc. They can also detect we are not being genuine ie their strategies no matter how adaptive socially we try to be cause us to feel something like continual irritation or anger ,a kind of resistance which IS I think how it should be , this fault line is the line where real breakthroughs can occur yes but it is also very dangerous , they will on some level mark us out as "the problem" nothing on earth will drag them back there , back to their deeper fears and insecurities and now this person is threatening my whole ( phoney) power base etc . This is a really difficult one , in despotic regimes well look at how North Korean leader dealt with his major who presumably questioned his action , boom executed him with an artillery gun ! Or Henry eighth or Herod murdering the innocents and on and on , today Donald trump blindly targetting Mexicans , is there a Mexican in Congress don't make me laugh is there hell. So theoretically it is possible but in real life situations it is 90 + % of the time doomed to failure . 8:00 in The beginning it feels awkward but later , so should we cherish ambiguity but for some people again even this in is going to trigger them into one ...... Because this actually happened to me with me the fuzziness was ok but for the other this is all they needed , it was a trap, a game that I fell into without even knowing it boom! The bulging eyed rant started , I exspect you , to..., you should be gratefull on and on offloading toxic crap , in a kind of trance whilst driving the friggin car and so on , wow a classic , in mental health terminology you migth say this was a full blown pyschotic episode but here is the point , feelings link us into trauma and trauma reveals our deepest fears and for some people at certain times they would rather kill and or destroy themselves than have this brought or even emerge into the open , here is the point ! In real life situations the en pass cannot be avoided , for the other insecure "director/leader" , they have been caught out and it is now what ? Oh God ......I feel so ...
I screwed myself: they had a anonymous work survey. Said everything wrong with place. Got called into office and exposed. She said she wasnt mad. Ever since any vacation i take is a problem.
Had a similar situation, but they didn't know it was me. They brought up the feedback I gave, all of which was constructive, in meetings for months after, always in a snarky complaining tone, never addressing the actual issues.
I have type two bipolar (meaning mostly depressed with with few bouts of mania). If you believe you have bipolar disorder, you need to seek help, I do not believe this is something you can self manage. Once you do find help, dont give up, took me 3 years to find the right medication to help mitigate my symptoms.
I find women tend to give better directions if you ask them on the street. They're also less likely to lie. They tend to be terrible at giving directions in the car tho.
World health organisation is a good prove that humans is in need of mental health and whatever else. support talinda bennington in changing direction on changedirection.org. what we don't do for free for Linkin park family
Echo, Jocko if you read this; your podcast saved me form killing myself in the summer. I've never had this perspective, the responsability, ownership and discipline part of life. It's disgusting I know, 24 and waste of life you guys are the closest thing to a good male figure I've had in my life so thank you so much, I know you're just doing your thing but still thanks guys for giving me something I could never find on my own.
Been there bro. Keep moving. Everyday take another step in the right direction. You know where you got to go
Awesome man.
Keep getting after it, even on dark days, ESPECIALLY on dark days.
@ArmchairWarrior :)
Keep going man. Life can only go up from here
@Alexander Brown lol tell us why?
''Now, of course we know that I prefer to slay the dragon, never mind the princess.'' lmao
Hell yah. I cracked up when i heard him say that too.
LOL! I know.... I laughed so hard!
DEFAULT alpha.....
Haha
Your best friends are awareness and disipline.
Those attitudes and behaviors, as well as relationships with other people and being friendly, respecting people's boundaries and having your own will help you.
Jocko’s podcasts drop right when my life needs them most!!! Thanks brother!!🤘🏻
Jocko. You crack me up. Your polite patronization of Echo is PRICELESS! So hilarious.!
Goood Morning!☀️Thank you so much!
Loved the final comment by Jocko: that was a good steak. As a chef in training, one day I hope to serve the two of you. You've helped me deal with uncooperative, disrespectful, arrogant coworkers. I'll cook you up something something special out of my personal recipe list, given some time to prepare ofcourse :D
Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, Leif Babin, narrated by Jocko Willink, Leif Babin on my Audible app. #listening. Thank you.😢 I'm encouraged.
Get after it
First time listening to the Shepard and the Wolf in one body. This is my new mentor. Jocko knows how to bend the universe. Subscribed 💪😑✊
Thank You. You two are great together !
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"
Okay, legit question: Taking ownership and enacting a plan may solve the immediate problem with this guys "zones". However, the greater problem is an incompetent boss. How do you fix that? Can you? If they are incapable of proper leadership, do you point that out or just leave?
If enough people get together and agree to it than...
FIRE YOUR BOSS ^_^
Naw just take ownership you decided to work a shit job.
@@austinlance7206 This.
I'd suggest you listen through the whole letter again, and take notes if you have to. A couple things worth notice include a COMPLETE LACK of even suggesting the writer had any culpability or responsibility in the whole dynamic. He just carried on about the complaints about this supervisor, and being two men down on his team...etc...etc...
Then, we can get into "Exactly HOW does this guy offer his feedback?" Does he just wait until the supervisor starts pointing out how his numbers are down, and suddenly burst forth with an explative laced rant about being two guys down and whatever percentage of production is GOING to be lost by the percentage of the team that's NOT there? You do that and it's not going to be a friendly conversation... and it can very really get you fired on the spot.
Does he (perhaps) consistently show up at the supervisor's desk with a laundry list of questions and complaints with the simple "...and I don't know what else to do." punctuation??? Bosses who expect team-work and thinking on your own really HATE to have a non-stop complainer who never offers a suggestion or solution, and a LOT of places that offer relative autonomy can't even function with a guy who has to go back to mommy and ask what to do next.
Finally, and pay extra close attention to this point, this writer ASSUMES from his supervisor's supposed position and some background that the guy ALREADY knows enough to JUST automagically understand from his perspective...
This could be a fraudian slip of omission. Assuming someone can already figure your perspective in an argument is presumptively holding them accountable for information they may not have. Sure, you both might be the same major in college and have the same degree, so a LOT of your educational background might be similar enough... BUT one of you may have also spent a couple years working as a Diesel Mechanic, while the other one only needed to work summers renting out golf carts at a country club... You absolutely CAN NOT EVER assume someone understands your position or perspective when you present an argument.
You're better off to assume your boss is a completely illiterate and uneducated idiot, so you'll slow the roll a bit, break down the information into very easily manageable chunks and remember some practically universal parallels and metaphors for comparisons for him/her... Then WHILE you're presenting your "side" of the discussion, you can either ask if they understand it, or watch for a sign of boredom...
Only rarely have I ever had to ask someone "Okay, boss... What is it that you don't understand?" Most of the time, it's not rocket-science to figure out someone "gets" the material as you present it. Especially when stress builds the pressure up, it's easy to lose track and get excited, usually too excited for your own good. SLOW DOWN!!! Make sure you're not racing in leaps and bounds while the boss is hearing a babbling moron spit out garbage that doesn't make any sense.
I suspect, there's some culpability on both sides in this one. The boss might assume this guy knows or understands more than he really does, too... BUT that bit about "because he's a Business Manager I would think he understands my perspective" is clearly assuming too much... ;o)
@@puckhermes2474 Okay... "on paper" the hierarchy structure seems to look like "boss lays out orders, and workers perform those orders... period".
In real life application, however, that doesn't tend to work well. I'll give you the same advice I've already posted. Listen to the letter Echo reads again... and listen carefully.
This writer goes on at length to present his case, how incompetent he sees his "boss" (supervisor) acting...
Feedback can be encouraged, and should be encouraged between workers and supervisors. Bosses aren't some kind of weird noble caste that sprang out of the ether to tell you what to do... They've been workers (most of them anyways) just the same.
A supervisor or Boss, simply put, is a coordinator. It's up to Him or Her to see to it, the relevant workers on station don't spend energy uselessly running over each other and bickering about stuff not being on time... That's pretty much it.
There's book-keeping for updating owners or stock holders on quotas and sustainable target figures, marketing... etc...etc..etc.. BUT the huge great service of a supervisor is that every step of an operation goes on "just in time"... for the next.
This writer is still assuming the supervisor has exactly his own mindset and perspective in mind with his "method" of feedback, and like I pointed out, asking a question isn't an attack unless you're "Asking what the fuck else am I supposed to do?" quote-unquote...
Admitting a shortcoming doesn't get you fired, and pointing out the simple math that two guys down from a five-guy team is a 40% shortfall in guys isn't necessarily a bad idea (just for the record)... BUT you should still approach this exposition to a boss with a modicum of respect. Not just ask flat-out, "How the fuck do you expect me to fucking get 100% quota with only 60% fucking guys?! Huh, asshole?"
It's not "ass-kissing" to be able to point out the simple math without defaulting to a verbal assault... and I suspect this writer hasn't been entirely honest about his approach to "feedback" because almost nobody willingly admits to their own failures. We (humans) tend to write about ourselves as if we (authors) have no faults to admit...
That's all I'm trying to point out... in a nutshell.
More pointedly, no, there's no unraveling of hierarchical structures when a small employee approaches a BIG bossman with relevant feedback, whether questioning how things are "normally done" or just offering a "new idea" or "innovation" that might actually help out around the job-site. It's a tough market out there, and any innovation toward an advantage (normally) is greatly appreciated without regard to who or where it came from. You can't always expect a Boss to pointedly remark that YOU (employee) came up with a credible idea... BUT you can't function in today's market without new and fresh ideas for advancing the business your in, ANY business. ;o)
Absolute savages and the best of friends. Glad this podcast exists.
Echo is right. I remember that study while in my undergrad for psych. Women remember/relay directions better from landmarks and men are more prone to compass orientation (NESW).
If only Jocko would actually let him finish his thought.
Be the best at your job and be appreciative that you have a job. Also be willing to listen more than giving your opinion on a subject.
In other words treat people with respect. No matter if you think you don't like them at first. Give them a chance. Be open-minded.
Create a healthy relationship with them.
Ask questions and talk with them. Be kind. Don't unfairly judge them. Explain yourself. Sum up and say how you feel and who you agree with.
😎😊👍👍
"Turn right here" bro what are you doing!?!? Hahaa
@echocharles starting 7:08. "My wife.." and @jockowillink starting 11.07 "warning, warning, altitude, altitude.." Just brilliants!
"If you don't design your own life's plan. Chances are you'll fall into somebody else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." Jim Rohn
Great stuff here 🤝
You got good points
Jocko playing the game... with the layydies
it makes me cringe how they have to walk on eggshells just to discuss differences between women and men, congrats third-wave feminists you did it! now we can all suck it.
Just goes to show that when your in front of a camera you have to sell out otherwise they give you the boot.
@HerrNilssonTheMonkey RUclips is the boss and anyone using it, is subject to its rules. Hence the top comment walking on eggshells.
Agree, I also found it strange for them to be so careful about stupid gender talk
Lmao that direction thing had me lost with the main topic
LOL I loved this one! You guys having to "tip-toe" around the mine field of feminism so you can say the truth without actually "saying" the truth. Men and women are COMPLETELY different in our learning, processing and communicating, "men are not just furry women with different plumbing," -Alison Armstrong. As a matter of opinion, I would prefer that the men whom are protecting and defending to NOT be relaxed when they are on duty. As a female that basks in femininity and loves masculine presence, I prefer a male voice on my GPS.
Thats interesting noted
8th grade physics class we made little models of various machines. A duo of girls made a helicopter without a tail rotor. The mistake was obvious to every boy in class but the girls were oblivious. They still got an A.
Makes me want to put Jocko as my GPS voice, it'd be GOOD.
Take ownership of your route. Turn right. EXECUTE.
@@TorchVX Traffic ahead. Stand by to get some
Check! Thank you. Really good one. No- the Best one!!!
At 02:02 Jocko: “And maybe that disgusts you!” Echo: *nearly falls out of his chair with laughter*
Some people say that squirrels are their spirit animal. Echo is mine.
Wicked much love , thankyou :)
Echo looking JAAAAACKED!!
SHUTCHERMOUTH!!!
BE DISCIPLINED!
TAKE ACTION!
DON'T ARGUE!
GIRLS AND GUYS CAN AND DO EXPLAIN CORRECTLY!
THANK YOU!!!
😎😊😀👍👍😇❤️
MUCH RESPECT & APPRECIATION!!
Bring Jordan back as often as possible
Excellent.
6:54 in Why do they disgust you or "us" , for me this is the fundamental fault line , that is get in the game . I do like the second world war analogy and the demarcation lines are clearer the getting in the game initially a lot of people did , with the promise that Germany would be great again ,has kind of primitive tribal pull to it , thank God we often say somebody knows what they are about .
The very real problem is that people who tend to disgust us have deeper unresolved psychodynamic issues they instinctively avoid looking at , they usually compensate by all most reactive dominant or passive aggressive strategies that help them to stay on top ! The classics are Hitler ( Judas) and so on , many are very clever , the Jim Jone's and Osho's etc.
They can also detect we are not being genuine ie their strategies no matter how adaptive socially we try to be cause us to feel something like continual irritation or anger ,a kind of resistance which IS I think how it should be , this fault line is the line where real breakthroughs can occur yes but it is also very dangerous , they will on some level mark us out as "the problem" nothing on earth will drag them back there , back to their deeper fears and insecurities and now this person is threatening my whole ( phoney) power base etc .
This is a really difficult one , in despotic regimes well look at how North Korean leader dealt with his major who presumably questioned his action , boom executed him with an artillery gun ! Or Henry eighth or Herod murdering the innocents and on and on , today Donald trump blindly targetting Mexicans , is there a Mexican in Congress don't make me laugh is there hell.
So theoretically it is possible but in real life situations it is 90 + % of the time doomed to failure .
8:00 in The beginning it feels awkward but later , so should we cherish ambiguity but for some people again even this in is going to trigger them into one ...... Because this actually happened to me with me the fuzziness was ok but for the other this is all they needed , it was a trap, a game that I fell into without even knowing it boom!
The bulging eyed rant started , I exspect you , to..., you should be gratefull on and on offloading toxic crap , in a kind of trance whilst driving the friggin car and so on , wow a classic , in mental health terminology you migth say this was a full blown pyschotic episode but here is the point , feelings link us into trauma and trauma reveals our deepest fears and for some people at certain times they would rather kill and or destroy themselves than have this brought or even emerge into the open , here is the point !
In real life situations the en pass cannot be avoided , for the other insecure "director/leader" , they have been caught out and it is now what ? Oh God ......I feel so ...
Hahaha @Jocko threw @ Echo under the bus at the end of the podcast 😆😆
Echo - I'm a girl - I make a map in my head.
Good video as usual =)
Interesting. Have you either hear of brain mapping and rcos?
❤❤❤
love vs love. counter terrorists versus terrorists
you both getting boring so we put you in a video game
I screwed myself: they had a anonymous work survey. Said everything wrong with place. Got called into office and exposed. She said she wasnt mad. Ever since any vacation i take is a problem.
Had a similar situation, but they didn't know it was me. They brought up the feedback I gave, all of which was constructive, in meetings for months after, always in a snarky complaining tone, never addressing the actual issues.
Someone tell me this feeling I am feeling is just a feeling and it will pass... or is it a bipolar disorder?
Everything is temporary , what makes you think you have bi polar?
What are you feeling? Go to a pastor or a counselor.. or trusted friend
I have type two bipolar (meaning mostly depressed with with few bouts of mania). If you believe you have bipolar disorder, you need to seek help, I do not believe this is something you can self manage. Once you do find help, dont give up, took me 3 years to find the right medication to help mitigate my symptoms.
I find women tend to give better directions if you ask them on the street. They're also less likely to lie. They tend to be terrible at giving directions in the car tho.
Bring me on the podcast
I'm really in the valley...
can you let him finish the story?
yeah really.
Where is echos tattoos
No one I know can read a map except me
Jocko, LET Echo finish his freaking story. Stop interrupting all the time.
We all know whamen have brain of squirrel - borat
Seriously, that's not nice, is it.. most boys are retarded... Right?
No it's visio-spatial reasoning and mind mapping where men got better at in prehistory by their need to hunt and quest for new land.
Win the game..ok.
.
#shit happens.
GPS female voice navigation 🧭 can indeed cause relationship issues “if” our wife is in the car 🚘 & we’re put on a TOLL road!!!
Lol let them have their cake :)
@echocharles I challenge you to give your wife more control. It'll be rewarding 😉, I promise.
A man who cannot surrender to his wife, does not deserve her. A woman who does not challenge her husband, does not love him.
@HerrNilssonTheMonkey circumstantially. You are also correct
World health organisation is a good prove that humans is in need of mental health and whatever else. support talinda bennington in changing direction on changedirection.org. what we don't do for free for Linkin park family
life is hard in the universe