They were dead men walking. I can't even imagine the anger, the fear, the frustration, the sadness, etc that they all must have felt knowing there was NOTHING they could do.
Chapuys was also the Ambassador for Spain & an advocate & confidant if Catherine of Aragon. He was the one getting messages to Charles to try to help to keep Katherine from being displaced by an so he was no fan of Anne Boleyn. So certainly if he was stating that the whole trial was a mock and that they were being railroaded he was the one getting messages to Charles to try to help to keep Catherine from being this place to buy an so he was new fan of handle it. So certainly if he was stating that the whole trial was a mock and that they were being Railroad it I would believe it.
Thank you so much for these videos. I have read a fair bit about this, but having all the nitty gritty details is far and away better than anything I could ever read. I feel like I'm getting a Master's, or even Doctorate, in Tudor History. I'm 53. I didn't finish college and my husband was in the Navy for 30 years. I always thought I'd go back to school one day and finish, but I could never think of a degree which was worth paying so much money for, or that I would have time in my natural life to pay off the debt. I also have a disease called Microvascular Ischemic Disease that kills tiny parts of my brain at random times. Since college has seemed out of the question for years, I try to keep my brain active in other ways, and this is just the ticket!! Thank you Claire ❤️💕 for helping me keep what mind I have left!! Between this and my quilting, I may last another year or two.
Thank you again for another great video. I’m blown away by how cruelly and quickly this all happened! It’s really scary to see just how quickly things are moving against Anne Boleyn, as well as everyone dragged down with her. Poor Henry Norris, Francis Weston William Breton & Mark Smeaton, they never stood a chance with such a rigged jury, their fates were sealed from the beginning. For even Chapuys (thanks Valentina for correcting my spelling) who was *against* Anne to basically say that it was rigged shows just how unjust the “trials” were. The end was already decided and the players in power made sure it all happened as the king wanted.
These videos are truly a highlight of my day, although I feel horrible saying that considering how much these poor people suffered unjustly. I’m sure they’d appreciate you advocating for them as they never truly could defend themselves in life.
Oh,Claire! You have brought these people back to life for me. I had no idea what an incredible injustice was done to them!, I look forward everyday to watching you but it is with growing unease because, of course, we know what was to come. Thank you again for sharing your passion and hard work with us!!
I am really enjoying these videos. I am getting more info this way than just reading about it as you add small asides that fill in some details. Thank you.
Thank you Claire. So sad 💔 they must have felt so angry and confused about what was happening to them. Especially when you are innocent and the out come is execution. A living nightmare.
Why were these five men picked to be tried for high treason? Who could take these people and find them guilty of such action? Norris was well liked and a real friend to Henry, Weston just a young man? Smeaton kind of full of himself, but harmless... and her brother? They didn't have a chance. Guilty until proven innocent. Thank you for filling in the details like this. It doesn't make it any easier to hear, but it does enhance the sense of injustice. Thank you for the lesson.
Assuming the charges were trumped up and assuming what lay behind Anne’s demise was Henry’s desire to move on, why were these particular 4 men chosen to go down with her? You mentioned Norris was a friend of the King. I think Mantel implied their sin was offending Cromwell. Do you agree?
Claire, I love the information that you give the in the videos and I have really enjoyed the countdown. I watch it every night before I go to sleep. Often I watch the videos twice - once to hear the information and second, to read the captions. For example tonight Lord Rochford was spelled "Lord shit". And sometimes, Anne Boleyn is Amberlin or ambulance.
Wondering if Anne and George Boleyn's uncle was chosen to preside over their trials to bolster the appearance of fairness, to give an appearance of fairness to the (foregone) verdicts. Why did the uncle accept this role (did he have a choice) - Was this uncle estranged from the rest of the Boleyn family, was he genuinely on the King's side or was he, like others, trying to save himself by distancing himself from his fallen-from-favor family?
It would be my guess that he had about as much choice as Anne and George had. Less than 0%. What a crap situation for all Boleyns and Howards involved.
I'm thoroughly enjoying the daily vignettes, but at the same time, I'm also dreading the approach of the horrific outcome .. thank you Claire please don't ever stop. You are wonderful ❤️
I was not aware of Chapuys' report that things appeared to be stacked against these men. That in itself is highly significant as he often referred to Anne as "the concubine". It is even clearer than I ever imagined (and I have studied this area for several years), just how spiteful and what sheer hatred was at the base of what drove Anne and these men to their deaths. It wasn't merely the whim of a tyrant, but a deeply stacked deck orchestrated to gut the entire Boleyn family. I can't imagine their father, Thomas having to take part in condemning these men, in order to save himself (though not for too much longer). This is just horrifying!
What a travesty of justice these men suffered by this commission and how greedy these men were to pronounce them guilty and then line up to reap the rewards of the estates, titles and other benefits the now guilty men held. The more things change, the more they remain the same. An example in America, Lee Harvey Oswald was labeled the person who killed President Kennedy in the 1960’s and murdered in the custody of the Dallas Police Department before he could face a jury for the murder. To this day, he is still labeled for that crime when no evidence that would stand up in court exists.
Claire, why do you think these 4 were selected? Were they particular enemies of Cromwell? To his great credit, Norris was offered a pardon by Henry to "confess" but declined, insisting his innocence. I think it is very telling it took 5 whacks to get Cromwell's head off in the end and he railroaded 5 men.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I thoroughly enjoy the entirety of your videos. From the bells, rain, cat, Q&A with your husband, etc.... (What a good sport he is, and you two are a most lovely couple)
We can't imagine what these men or anyone King Henry wanted found guilty of some crime went through. I think it's important to know the good, bad and the ugly as they say of history. How else do we evaluate our growth, justice in the face of injustices from whatever source they emerged.
I am enjoying learning about the day to day events...I knew her fall was fast but never realized how fast...until now. Once the wheels started turning no one had a chance.
Perhaps the appointment of Sir Thomas was a show of throwing the Boleyn siblings a bone? You would assume it would benefit them, as we tend to view relations as allies. Think Catherine of Aragon and her nephew the Holy Roman Emperor. If a court with a relative on it finds family members guilty, then the proof against them must be indisputable. But I understand that the duke's relationship with Anne was known to be poor. What do you suppose Anne's mother must have thought, having her own brother contribute to the executions of not one, but TWO of her loved children?
Hello Claire, Happy Canadian Mother's Day! Thank you so much for these wonderful RUclips posts, and lest I forget your amazing web site, The Anne Boleyn Files. Which, despite not being a member, sorry, have thoroughly enjoyed over the years! (Must correct the membership thingy)! I have just stared rereading, for the third time, the erudite Eric Ives, The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn. What a fabulous book, I imagine you might agree. Thanks again Claire, and of course Tim!
Do you have any theories on why these particular men were chosen as fall guys? I understand George Boleyn, which was probably to shock and bring down another enemy. I can also see Mark Smeaton as his death won't offend anyone important. But you mentioned Norris was a particular friend of Henry's, and it seems particularly unfair that he was chosen when he went out of his way to avoid any trace of treason. Was it simply their proximity to the queen? Did they have enemies?
"The Boleyn faction." The supposed part played at the Tudor court by "faction" itself rests almost entirely on conjecture, supposition and wishful thinking.
I think any of us could think of someone who would like to see us Fall to some extent, but not like this. I just sense such fear in everyone. I also have to wonder how they slept afterwards.
I wonder that often, too, Polly Dolly! I don't think he slept well. I think his nature took a dark turn, and that his initial good cheer and liveliness as the Renaissance Prince slowly but surely deteriorated.
Crushing how so many innocent people were slaughtered at the whim of H8. Were their any other court systems in this period? How were claims heard, opinions made besides H8 court throughout the kingdom? Did all cases need to go b4 Henry VIII?
If Henry just wanted to be rid of Anne in order to remarry and beget a male heir - if there was no substance to the charges - why not simply ask Cranmer for an annulment (as indeed happened once she had fallen)? Why proceed to the extremity of trial and execution? After all, an annulment no longer depended on the interminable legal processes of Rome. Henry was now master of the English church and of its legal jurisdiction and was served by a compliant archbishop of Canterbury to whom the king was God's vicar. It wouldn't have taken long, and would doubtless have been granted on the same grounds as after Anne's fall, namely, the impediment of affinity created by Henry's prior relations with Anne's sister Mary. The annulment of the marriage to Katherine of Aragon took just two weeks, the court opening at Dunstable on 08 May 1533 and concluding on 23 May. There's no reason to doubt that the same dispatch would have been forthcoming in Anne's case. But in her case something happened, and happened very suddenly, to provoke the king's suspicion - and everything else flowed from that.
They were dead men walking. I can't even imagine the anger, the fear, the frustration, the sadness, etc that they all must have felt knowing there was NOTHING they could do.
Kelly El 🇺🇸do we know what those men in particular were ‘chosen’ for this fall along with Anne?🇬🇧
I did not realize the Chapuys felt that way, knowing that he hated Anne. I learn something new everyday with these videos!
Chapuys was also the Ambassador for Spain & an advocate & confidant if Catherine of Aragon. He was the one getting messages to Charles to try to help to keep Katherine from being displaced by an so he was no fan of Anne Boleyn. So certainly if he was stating that the whole trial was a mock and that they were being railroaded he was the one getting messages to Charles to try to help to keep Catherine from being this place to buy an so he was new fan of handle it. So certainly if he was stating that the whole trial was a mock and that they were being Railroad it I would believe it.
Thank you so much for these videos. I have read a fair bit about this, but having all the nitty gritty details is far and away better than anything I could ever read. I feel like I'm getting a Master's, or even Doctorate, in Tudor History.
I'm 53. I didn't finish college and my husband was in the Navy for 30 years. I always thought I'd go back to school one day and finish, but I could never think of a degree which was worth paying so much money for, or that I would have time in my natural life to pay off the debt. I also have a disease called Microvascular Ischemic Disease that kills tiny parts of my brain at random times. Since college has seemed out of the question for years, I try to keep my brain active in other ways, and this is just the ticket!!
Thank you Claire ❤️💕 for helping me keep what mind I have left!! Between this and my quilting, I may last another year or two.
My very best to you and your family Linda.
Thank you again for another great video. I’m blown away by how cruelly and quickly this all happened!
It’s really scary to see just how quickly things are moving against Anne Boleyn, as well as everyone dragged down with her.
Poor Henry Norris, Francis Weston William Breton & Mark Smeaton, they never stood a chance with such a rigged jury, their fates were sealed from the beginning.
For even Chapuys (thanks Valentina for correcting my spelling) who was *against* Anne to basically say that it was rigged shows just how unjust the “trials” were. The end was already decided and the players in power made sure it all happened as the king wanted.
Chapuys not Shaquey 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is so shocking and very upsetting . them poor men and poor poor anna . Makes me feel sick .thank you clarie😪😪😪👑
These videos are truly a highlight of my day, although I feel horrible saying that considering how much these poor people suffered unjustly. I’m sure they’d appreciate you advocating for them as they never truly could defend themselves in life.
Even Eustis knew they were being railroaded. Thanks Claire.😁💚
Oh,Claire! You have brought these people back to life for me. I had no idea what an incredible injustice was done to them!, I look forward everyday to watching you but it is with growing unease because, of course, we know what was to come. Thank you again for sharing your passion and hard work with us!!
I am really enjoying these videos. I am getting more info this way than just reading about it as you add small asides that fill in some details. Thank you.
I've learned more from your daily presentations than I ever learned in History class. Thank you, Claire! Your hard work is very much appreciated.
Thank you Claire. So sad 💔 they must have felt so angry and confused about what was happening to them.
Especially when you are innocent and the out come is execution. A living nightmare.
🇭🇲🦘 These 4 men were doomed, and they knew it! Must have been terrifying for them. 🙏🔔 .... "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍
Why were these five men picked to be tried for high treason? Who could take these people and find them guilty of such action? Norris was well liked and a real friend to Henry, Weston just a young man? Smeaton kind of full of himself, but harmless... and her brother? They didn't have a chance. Guilty until proven innocent. Thank you for filling in the details like this. It doesn't make it any easier to hear, but it does enhance the sense of injustice. Thank you for the lesson.
I cannot imagine disliking anyone enough to railroad them into a death sentence. What a vicious time !
Thank you.
Awful events indeed. Thank you once again for all this information
Henry wanted out of his marriage and Cromwell got him out.
Assuming the charges were trumped up and assuming what lay behind Anne’s demise was Henry’s desire to move on, why were these particular 4 men chosen to go down with her? You mentioned Norris was a friend of the King. I think Mantel implied their sin was offending Cromwell. Do you agree?
Claire, I love the information that you give the in the videos and I have really enjoyed the countdown. I watch it every night before I go to sleep. Often I watch the videos twice - once to hear the information and second, to read the captions. For example tonight Lord Rochford was spelled "Lord shit". And sometimes, Anne Boleyn is Amberlin or ambulance.
Thank you Claire for shareing these events back in time. It was a devastating time for those men and Ann.
Thanks for another episode of keeping up with the Tudors 👑🗡🏰💒🛡
Wondering if Anne and George Boleyn's uncle was chosen to preside over their trials to bolster the appearance of fairness, to give an appearance of fairness to the (foregone) verdicts. Why did the uncle accept this role (did he have a choice) - Was this uncle estranged from the rest of the Boleyn family, was he genuinely on the King's side or was he, like others, trying to save himself by distancing himself from his fallen-from-favor family?
It would be my guess that he had about as much choice as Anne and George had. Less than 0%. What a crap situation for all Boleyns and Howards involved.
@Violeta Durovic yes you don't get to be a Duke by not siding with the power.
Anyone else feeling this nervous build up? I am. Like we are counting down to something coming, not something that happened. Nice work Claire.xx
I'm puzzled, learning this historic time period, bloody uncertainty. Where did the saying, jolly old England come from?
Love this series! Amazing work Claire. Thank you.
Thanks again Claire. Sending love, peace, & hugs. 🙋❤✌👍😊
I'm thoroughly enjoying the daily vignettes, but at the same time, I'm also dreading the approach of the horrific outcome .. thank you Claire please don't ever stop. You are wonderful ❤️
I was not aware of Chapuys' report that things appeared to be stacked against these men. That in itself is highly significant as he often referred to Anne as "the concubine". It is even clearer than I ever imagined (and I have studied this area for several years), just how spiteful and what sheer hatred was at the base of what drove Anne and these men to their deaths. It wasn't merely the whim of a tyrant, but a deeply stacked deck orchestrated to gut the entire Boleyn family. I can't imagine their father, Thomas having to take part in condemning these men, in order to save himself (though not for too much longer). This is just horrifying!
Yet it does appear the entire family wasn't ruined, and that their father managed to remain in service to the King.
Beth Janelle I thought Thomas Boleyn was excused from these trials?
What a travesty of justice these men suffered by this commission and how greedy these men were to pronounce them guilty and then line up to reap the rewards of the estates, titles and other benefits the now guilty men held. The more things change, the more they remain the same. An example in America, Lee Harvey Oswald was labeled the person who killed President Kennedy in the 1960’s and murdered in the custody of the Dallas Police Department before he could face a jury for the murder. To this day, he is still labeled for that crime when no evidence that would stand up in court exists.
Claire, why do you think these 4 were selected? Were they particular enemies of Cromwell? To his great credit, Norris was offered a pardon by Henry to "confess" but declined, insisting his innocence. I think it is very telling it took 5 whacks to get Cromwell's head off in the end and he railroaded 5 men.
Love your videos!! Thank you!!!
Much more informational listening to you
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I thoroughly enjoy the entirety of your videos. From the bells, rain, cat, Q&A with your husband, etc.... (What a good sport he is, and you two are a most lovely couple)
Thank you for this
I've said it before, I have a sick feeling at the thought of how quick this went. Thank you, Claire!
We can't imagine what these men or anyone King Henry wanted found guilty of some crime went through. I think it's important to know the good, bad and the ugly as they say of history. How else do we evaluate our growth, justice in the face of injustices from whatever source they emerged.
I am enjoying learning about the day to day events...I knew her fall was fast but never realized how fast...until now. Once the wheels started turning no one had a chance.
Perhaps the appointment of Sir Thomas was a show of throwing the Boleyn siblings a bone? You would assume it would benefit them, as we tend to view relations as allies. Think Catherine of Aragon and her nephew the Holy Roman Emperor. If a court with a relative on it finds family members guilty, then the proof against them must be indisputable. But I understand that the duke's relationship with Anne was known to be poor. What do you suppose Anne's mother must have thought, having her own brother contribute to the executions of not one, but TWO of her loved children?
Hello Claire, Happy Canadian Mother's Day!
Thank you so much for these wonderful RUclips posts, and lest I forget your amazing web site, The Anne Boleyn Files. Which, despite not being a member, sorry, have thoroughly enjoyed over the years! (Must correct the membership thingy)!
I have just stared rereading, for the third time, the erudite Eric Ives, The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn. What a fabulous book, I imagine you might agree.
Thanks again Claire, and of course Tim!
Absolutely loving these videos, they're fascinating! Thank you so much for uploading them. ❤
Do you have any theories on why these particular men were chosen as fall guys? I understand George Boleyn, which was probably to shock and bring down another enemy. I can also see Mark Smeaton as his death won't offend anyone important. But you mentioned Norris was a particular friend of Henry's, and it seems particularly unfair that he was chosen when he went out of his way to avoid any trace of treason. Was it simply their proximity to the queen? Did they have enemies?
"The Boleyn faction." The supposed part played at the Tudor court by "faction" itself rests almost entirely on conjecture, supposition and wishful thinking.
I think any of us could think of someone who would like to see us Fall to some extent, but not like this. I just sense such fear in everyone. I also have to wonder how they slept afterwards.
I wonder that often, too, Polly Dolly! I don't think he slept well. I think his nature took a dark turn, and that his initial good cheer and liveliness as the Renaissance Prince slowly but surely deteriorated.
Curious. Smeaton makes absolutely no sense. Why would Anne even waste her time with him? Artists were just hired help.
Seems they could count on him to plead guilty.
Crushing how so many innocent people were slaughtered at the whim of H8. Were their any other court systems in this period? How were claims heard, opinions made besides H8 court throughout the kingdom? Did all cases need to go b4 Henry VIII?
If Henry just wanted to be rid of Anne in order to remarry and beget a male heir - if there was no substance to the charges - why not simply ask Cranmer for an annulment (as indeed happened once she had fallen)? Why proceed to the extremity of trial and execution? After all, an annulment no longer depended on the interminable legal processes of Rome. Henry was now master of the English church and of its legal jurisdiction and was served by a compliant archbishop of Canterbury to whom the king was God's vicar. It wouldn't have taken long, and would doubtless have been granted on the same grounds as after Anne's fall, namely, the impediment of affinity created by Henry's prior relations with Anne's sister Mary. The annulment of the marriage to Katherine of Aragon took just two weeks, the court opening at Dunstable on 08 May 1533 and concluding on 23 May. There's no reason to doubt that the same dispatch would have been forthcoming in Anne's case. But in her case something happened, and happened very suddenly, to provoke the king's suspicion - and everything else flowed from that.
Is this your remodeled kitchen
This was Horrible , Henry wanted rid of Ann he wanted a male Heir and he was going to do anything he could to het what he wanted.