14 May 1536 - The rise of the phoenix, Jane Seymour
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2019
- On this day in 1536, 14th May, while her predecessor and former mistress was in the Tower of London waiting for her trial, Jane Seymour was moved to be closer to the king and was treated like a queen.
Find out more about this, and Eustace Chapuys' rather unflattering description, in today's video from Claire Ridgway, author of "The Fall of Anne Boleyn: A Countdown".
It's sickening that he's courting his "love" 5 days before beheading his "wife" (Anne was his 2nd wife & IMO Katherine was his legal wife)... Thank you, Claire!
True enough. But Katherine was dead herself by this time, so Anne was as much 'wife' as he had! 💍
@@h.calvert3165 Katherine had only been dead 5 months though. He was so selfish.
@@aimee2234
He was obsessed, possessed, with the drive to get a son. Nothing else registered. 👶
And that he literally got engaged to Jane the day after Anne was executed!
@@sabrinac7106
Not classy. Not classy at all. At least let the body get cold! ⚰️
Jane was not the intellectual match of either Anne Boleyn or Katherine of Aragon...but I think at this point Henry wanted someone who would submit to him & give him a son of course. Jane managed to do both & then die...thus she becomes Henry’s favorite wife....
She died before she could disappoint him, and thus became a saint. So frustrating.
@@SunflowerSpotlight that's what i've always thought.
She just didn't have time to get on Henry's bad side. If she had lived and the baby had died she would have suffered as Anne had.
Therese Catalano 🇺🇸I agree. After all why marry him after he dumped his 1st wife & had his 2nd wife executed!🇬🇧🤦🏻♀️
@@maryannlockwood7806 because her family probably pressed her and from what I understand at that time you didn't say no to the King. But, I think it was more her family. It would bring them riches and high positions. Kind of like it did Anne Boelyn's family. If accounts are true then Anne's father pressed her into it.
I always thought it was Jane who restored Mary's favour with her father and place at court, thanks for clearing that up!
Although Henry considered Jane his "one true wife" as she gave him the son he so desperately desired, she was no match for Anne Boleyn. Anne challenged Henry intellectually with a deep understanding of religion, politics, and history. There was a deep passion between them. Anne was just unfortunate in that she miscarried their son and Henry believed that he was being punished through her for setting Catherine of Aragon aside. So he got rid of Anne to clear the way for Jane, who was biddable and learned quickly not to challenge him. That she died after giving him the son he wanted, only sealed her fate as being the "good wife" who did her duty. She was fortunate enough that she did not live long enough to fall out of favor, as Henry became more capricious as time went on.
Very well put! And then he couldn’t handle Anne of Cleves and then went with the silly Howard girl. Gah.
Jane dying before she could disappoint Henry is the only reason he seemed her a saint and loved her forever, I agree. People who go on about him loving her so truly seem to not get Henry’s personality and how things just worked with him! It’s frustrating when people romanticize it.
@@SunflowerSpotlight well said and spot on. I've always felt that way to.
Who knows if Jane had lived he might have gotten rid of her too eventually
Jody Tubb Thanks! It seems we feel really similarly about Henry! 😅
@@SunflowerSpotlight if the baby boy had passed and she had lived she would have suffered the same fate of Queen Anne.
I think what Henry what he did to Catharine of Aragon was wrong and haunted him.
Anne was the wife he loved. He waited years for her. He loved her and she was educated, smart, humorous. She was everything and more than Henry was.
I never realized how fast this process for Anne was before this series. I also wondered what Jane Seymour thought about the downfall of Anne. She surely must have considered that she could be just as temporary as her former Queen. Makes one wonder about how loyalties so often changed in the Tudor court.
Admittedly, until now I did believe that Jane was the mediator between Henry and Mary. Thank you for setting it straight. Considering Henry's disregard for human life with these bogus charges, trials and death sentences, it should come to no surprise that while this was going on, Henry was already treating Jane like a Queen...but it does.
I hadn’t really heard that, weirdly. People always praised his last wife, Catherine Parr, for that. And thank goodness, since she was the last chance for the girls to get back in line for the throne!
Also, just an aside, I like your glasses! They’re a really flattering shape of frame, it makes your face shape pop more and it looks refined. The contrast is nice but not distracting. Glasses are hard to get just right, so that kind of jumped out at me with your profile picture. 😅
Kelly El The series The Tudors painted Jane as the one who bought Mary and Elizabeth back to court and reconciled them with Henry but history gives that credit to Katherine Parr
@@mariafury1047 Thank you. Yes, much of my "knowledge" came from "The Tudors" - even if not factually correct, I credit that show with leading me into my deep dive into the Tudors and wanting to learn more about their lives (and especially Anne's).
Thanks for clarifying the myth about Jane Seymour being responsible for Henry welcoming Mary back.
If Jane had any decency and I have no reason to believe she didn't, she had to be a bit uncomfortable with the whole process but what could she do, she certainly couldn't speak out to Henry about it. I don't envy her position during this time.
Ditto. Many of these women (if not all) really had no choice. If the king had his eye on you, and your family wanted the power, and without your family arranged a marriage for you, you would be on the street, there wasn’t much choice. They just had to do their best. So though I’m not particularly fond of Jane (second only to the actual adulteress he married), I do admit she didn’t probably have much of a choice.
@@SunflowerSpotlight did you make it up out of yourself? You could say no to kings like many women said no to Charles the second king of England. Anne refused him and he had to get a yes. Jane was just power hungry and had no decency no matter how many times Anne slapped her for using excuses Seymour was rude to her. She was sitting on his lap in front of Anne which caused her to miscarriage from stress.
Still loving all the Tudor double whammy goodies.....thankyou Claire 😀
Thank you for another great video. Although I don’t know a great deal about Jane Seymour, I've never thought that she was the sweet, innocent, loving woman she is often described as. I think that she was quite crafty and conniving, especially now that you’ve cleared up the common myth that she was responsible for getting Mary back into the king’s good graces.
Then she was really no different than Anne.
Weren't all of them basically the same when it came to scheming to become Queen and push their families higher in rank, except for Katharine of Aragon and Katharine Parr.
@ClaireRidgway, I am getting guff from my mom because things are not being done around the house. She's like "Are you talking to those British people on the computer again?" She's 87, I'm 53, and yes, that's the reason. Thank you for my wonderful daily obsession. I hope you can find some more for the next 10 years.
You know, Anne probably had a lot if time to think about how Katherine felt while she was in the Tower with a few days on her hands. I imagine there was a lot of regret and remorse when she heard about Jane being so close and all dolled up. I imagine she also had a lot of fear for Elizabeth, knowing how Mary had been treated by she and Henry. I imagine she went to the scaffold a much humbled, remorseful young lady, but she didn't deserve the injustice and mock trial she and the men were subjected to.
I agree! I was thinking about that today! The idea that now she knew more how Catherine felt, that she hadn’t understand just how painful it would be, but now that the time had come, it hurt more than she could have imagined. To go in such a 180°, it’s crazy. She rose higher than anyone could have guessed, and had just that much further to fall when all was said and done. It’s heartbreaking. Having to die knowing your child will be bastardized and set aside, probably not to live through childhood. Elizabeth always hearing of how her witch mother took advantage of the king and was so wicked, until her sole surviving parent, her own father had Anne killed, partially for plotting to kill him and partially for sleeping with her uncle!?!?
To not just not have the power to save herself, but to not have the ability to help protect her child in any way... I can’t imagine the helplessness. She handled it with such class.
Hi to your Mom from one of those British people. Tell I've curtsied in deference to her seniority.
@ElizabethWoolnaigh, she is tickled! Thank you!!
I am amazed about the Imperial ambassador writing about not only the colorless Jane Seymour who I remember in another history I read years ago was referred to not only as colorless but as flat in affect as a playing card Queen. The Imperial Ambassador I must have been a supremely honest person because as much as he disliked Anne Boleyn he documented about how swiftly and unfairly this whole trajectory of Investigation was moving. Thank you again and again for these videos because I have loved tutor history since I was a teenager and you are bringing in much better documented and investigated contemporary commentary then I have heard in the past.
I wonder if Anne wrote that poem "death, rock me to sleep".
I have to say Eustaces Chapuys was an informative chronicler (aka spy) of the Tudor court. I’m just saying this as a layperson, and others may know of others better, but it seems he’s quite prolific history of the court
I imagine the thanx goes to the recordkeepers at the Vatican and at his master's court. The info comes from Chapuys' ambassadorial dispatches. We must remember that all of the intelligence may be biased.
I think we owe him a debt of gratitude, because he is one of the few "contemporaries" who was close enough, and Teflon enough, to write the truth and have no fear of reprisal. I think Henry was a little cowed and scared of retribution from Philip, so he left Chapys alone. That might have been the last straw, lol.
Henry didn’t ever waste anytime getting what he wanted. He wanted a son and was going to do whatever it took to get one. Poor Ann. It’s so sad, he was brutal in his desire to get rid of her to marry Jane!
I have no doubt that the news of Jane being moved closer to Henry was “leaked” to Anne to further torment her. 🤦🏼♀️
Henry was a foul piece of work. There was no need to kill Anne to get her out of the way in his quest for a son. He could have just divorced her . I'm sure given the choice of divorce or death she would have done the sensible thing and bowed out.
She seemed amenable to it when she was under the impression he wouldn’t kill her. He just simply... didn’t want her to be alive anymore.
this way was faster
He may have worried that there may be doubt about the legitimacy of his children with Jane if Anne were still alive. But I still blame both Henry and Jane for the deaths of Anne and those 5 poor innocent men.
He didn't want a repeat of Katherine.
annette fournier He needed Anne dead because he needed Elizabeth to be out of the line of succession. I very much doubt that Anne would have gone quietly. She was very clever and perhaps too clever and I think she would have had plenty of ammunition to fire at Henry. Thomas Cromwell ended up being like his predecessor even though he likely didn’t want to be. It was please the King regardless and keep your own head.
Thank you for today's video Claire. We appreciate your hard work so we can learn as well as enjoy our daily history lesson!
thank you for doing these!! I watch every evening!!(also looking beautiful Ms. Claire!! but not in a weirdo way!!(love from WV, U.S.) ;)
Look forward to this every day! Thanks!
Thanks Claire!!
Thank you.
I am thoroughly enjoying this series, thank you! ☺️
I really appreciate all your work on our behalf. Poor Anne didn't stand a chance against her bully husband king. Isn't it strange how men could have as many mistresses as they wanted in those days, but a woman could be charged with high treason. Jane wouldn't have lasted long if she had lived as she sounds dull by contrast to Anne or Katherine
Since Chapuys doubted Jane was a virgin, do you think there is any validity to That? I ask because I wonder if her possible pregnancy (which could have ended in misscarriage or been a false alarm) could explain the haste of Anne's fall. I don't always agree with AW, but that theory would help things make sense.
Interesting theory. If it was a miscarriage I don’t know if Henry would have felt her quite as saintlike as he liked to paint her later (since he did not deal well with disappointments). Maybe a false alarm could do it though. I think he was just done with Anne and didn’t want to waste time letting Jane age by going through a divorce or annulment. He was done with Anne and wanted to move on ASAP, and he didn’t want Anne to make it out alive. That’s what I think, anyway.
I’d be very interested to hear Claire’s take on it. I’d also love a few videos on representations on Tudor history in media, various interpretations, which ones were truer to life. I don’t have a good handle on what Jane’s personality might have been like, and seeing a pretty accurate version tends to be helpful for me.
I love that you use sense and contemporary resources to put certain things people view as fact "to bed" as you say. I love watching your videos! I feel like I learn so much every day.
Bless you Claire - feeling such dread around this event this year - Her energy is so powerful hundreds of years later. Thank you so much. 💔
Thanks for clearing this up ! Figured it was down to him for sure, with Anne gone she could come back and welcomed back at court
I found it strange that she and Henry married just days after Anne’s execution. She knew what was happening to Anne. Her family groomed her to be Henry’s mistress and wife. She was the most boring wife.
I totally agree with you and I believe that Jane Seymour was dingy. How naive to believe he could actually be a true husband to her after the way he treated his first two wives??
Thank you Claire. 👍✌💙👸👑🏰🎪🎭
Thank you for posting these videos again. You are right that the time goes so quickly. It almost seems like a bad fairy tale that takes a ghastly turn. It doesn't seem possible that it was real. I am sorry that you are not on your usual trip to be there to pay your respects. Be well and be blessed. ♥️
Thank you for the information about Jane Seymour: guessing youthfulness was better than brains. Appreciate the observations of Chapuys about the Princess Mary. So many things I don't know and am learning (it's never too late!)
Claire, thank you for posting these historical videos about the Tudor era. I find it simply fascinating. I'm not a fan of Henry VIII at all. I consider him a monster. And, I'm a big fan of Queen Elizabeth I. I felt very badly about the way all Henry's wives were treated. One wonders if Jane Seymour had any hidden concerns about the real possibility that her relationship with Henry VIII could go bad if she didn't produce a male heir considering how he disposed of his first two wives.
There couldn't have been a woman in the world who wasn't scared. It's why both of his next wives were coerced by male relatives. He really wanted Mary DeGuisse (Mary Queen of Scots mum). She was like NOPE!!
Ditto! I got into English history because of Elizabeth! The idea of a defiant virgin queen was just so... epic. I was about eight, lol. There was a series of kids books like the diaries of various princesses, to let kids learn about history and culture differences. I got all of them! I never looked back. History has been such a comfort to me.
And yeah, if I was Jane, I’d be super scared. Her family was... productive and prolific so that would be a bit of a help, but I’d have been absolutely terrified.
I'm fascinated by both Elizabeth and Mary. Such strong women to be able to have the heart and the stomach of a King. Or, something like that. I'm scared of a cockroach. I'd have lost my head sure enough.
Hello Claire what you speak of today I saw in the Tudors series. Did you see this series and what did you think of it......Thanks Claire.
Tutor fix! Tyvm😁😁😁
Sweet Jane the meek and mild who was pressured by her two brothers and King Henry. She served her purpose and gave him a son. She soon died from probable puerperal fever. This was usually a bacterial infection from the physicians or midwives who did not wash their hands before delivering a baby. Thanks, Claire
Yeah I agree. Childbed Fever, so unnecessary, so many deaths. And in the cases where the placenta fragmented, they just shoved their hand up there without washing up, and if they didn’t get it all, yikes, what a horrible death.
I get what ur saying about the unclean hands but I'm sure Jane was begging them to rip her son out of her they say it took 3 days and 2 nights to deliver the baby ! There's bound to be uncleanliness somewhere in that time frame
What was that about Chapuy's estimation that Jane was 'not a virgin'? Was that just a smear, or did he know something?
Ellen Spear yes I wondered that too. Was it because he was trying to besmirch Jane in spite of Henry desire for her in retaliation for ill treatment of Mary and Katherine?
She was English and not married despite being about 27. I do wonder why no marriage had been arranged for her.
Jane was said to be Catholic even though her brothers were turning toward the reforming faith and I'm sure that the emperor's Ambassador would have been able to pick up a couple things on her body language. The only thing he was wrong about was that he thought that Anne Boleyn was a concubine but she didn't consummate her relationship with Henry until about a month before they married. and was not about to be someone's mistress and she and Henry supposedly consummated their relationship in December the month before they married when they went to France to see King Francis the first.
Poor lady. It’s unimaginable. She must have felt like she was in a nightmare and absolutely terrified. I wonder what she would of thought if she knew how many people are still fascinated with her life. Ann Of A Thousand Days started my lifelong passion for English History. I have been fortunate enough to have visited the UK a half a dozen times. If I could I would move to England.
I love the top you are wearing.
I wonder if another reason why Henry had Jane removed from court at this time was that she was already pregnant, and subsequently miscarried. This might explain the rush into marriage (10 days after Anne's death). Complications following a miscarriage might explain the fact that it took Jane a further 8 months to conceive Edward
That's why I'm confused I can't upload a pic but what about chapys eustace letters of him reporting Jane bring up bringing Mary back to court and Henry said something to the effect of she should worry about pushing the claim of the children they will have?
You mean The Tudors lied to me AGAIN??
Do you mean the tv show?
Your shirt is beautiful
Where is the link for Chapuy`s letter please?
Hi Enilsa and Christian I was looking at jewellery on eBay and up you popped pardon the pun guess who won lol. Good luck in your new adventures Christian.
When Claire says she’ll put a link at the bottom, (usually for some access to some footnote that she had mentioned), I can never find the link!! Anyone know what I’m doing wrong?
When I say I'll add a link you'll always find them in the video description.
wow this happened on my bday 😃😃
Does anyone know who was it that bought Elizabeth back to court if Jane Seymour wasn't the one bringing the family together. Was it Catherine Parr? Or someone else? Would love to know the facts. Thanks Claire for another honest and wonderful video on our dear Queen Anne Boleyn. 💕👑
I'd love to know more about jane seymour
Henry left Catherine for Anne. And then Henry left Anne for Jane Seymour. Even worse, he killed Anne. Let that be a lesson to you ladies. If you do it to someone the guy you did it for will do it to you (eventually)
Jane died before Hank had time to get bored with her. And she gave him the male heir, of course.
I often wonder what Jane would have been thinking as she watched her future husband behead his current wife...
I have often wondered what Jane Seymour thought about Anne Boleyn being in the Tower and about to be executed, while Henry VIII whispered sweet nothings in her ear. Did she believe what she heard about Anne? Or did she know the truth, that Anne had not done the things of which she was accused, but realized that it would do her no good to speak out? From a psychological point of view, no-one is "that special" to not suffer the same fate as another. If you look at behavior, and see one person being treated terribly, then it is a sure sign that the same person will treat you in the same manner. So Jane was lucky that she gave Henry a son, and then died, rather than be killed by him when someone else took his fancy. Poor Anne! Stuck in the Tower, no friend by her side, knowing she was doomed to die and yet hoping Henry would change his mind and spare her life.
Is there any evidence that Anne caught wind of Jane? I hope not.
I'm dying you get home and see today's. I'm at Jui Jitsu with my grandson. I'm like "We're wasting history time!"
I believe Henry "loved" Jane not for herself, but because she gave him his long-awaited son. She was also more obedient and by the time of Anne's death, I think Henry was tired of intelligent, "interfering" wives with a brain who would argue with him. I also think Jane just didn't live long enough for her to fall out of favor with Henry, but she may never have fallen out of favor since she did give Henry Edward VI. I've always wondered about that. Thanks for clearing up the myths that Jane alone was responsible for Mary being welcomed back to court, when it was Eustace Chapuys all along!
🇭🇲🦘 So, only 5 days before poor Anne would be executed, Henry had Jane Seymour brought to court and she was to be treated as queen. This is all the
.... proof you need of Henry's true intentions all along. Surely he (and Cromwell) could/should have found another way but NO - Anne, George and 4 other men were to die so that Henry got what he wanted, quickly. CRIMINAL (understatement)! ...
I'm finding out SO MUCH by watching these 'Fall of Anne Boleyn' videos. Whilst very disturbing, good to know the truth. "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍
I am sure she had some inkling of how tenuous would be her position as the next wife. Henry worked so long and hard to get rid of Katherine, then this quick cutting down of Anne. It would make me think twice, that’s for sure!
I never thought of Jane Seymour as a sweet, loving & quiet woman.. she comes off as very manipulative & nasty especially after finding out she wasn’t responsible for bringing Mary back
I wasn't alive or around back then within five hundred years ago nor would I have wanted to be. Oh noo!!!
From a distance it looks as if King Henry had Jane Seymour as a mistress or they were closely involved for about a year or so and then when things got torn to crap in January of 1536, the king started getting ideas and discussing his plans with a few of his close advisors like Thomas Cromwell and Charles Brandon , etc..about the possibility of getting rid of his wife, Queen ANNE, and marrying Jane because he could have anybody is a mistress, but he wanted another wife who could possibly be another breeder so that he could hopefully have a legitimate son and heir.
Henry was paranoid and all it would take was him to get disgusted with someone and hear one rumor and he would fly off the deep end and make impulsive decisions. Years before when people said bad things about Anne, the king defended her. The thing is that Henry and Anne had been going through some rough times and she was not novelty to him any longer.
Jane was just pure dingy. Had she not died after having Edward the vi he would have gotten tired of her as well and put her away or sent her to a nunnery eventually. the only two queens I recognize in England at that time were Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn because they were both strong-willed, loyal, headstrong, bold, and independent. neither one of them would take any crap from a man in an era where women had no rights.
Jane was plain Jane, and she was a ditz by not thanking for 1 minute about the fact that King Henry has disposed of two wives and he could easily do the same to her. certainly her family was pushing her and encouraging her but she still could have said. Noooo to King Henry's proposal but she was overly eager.
considering that Henry and Jane were engaged a day after Anne's beheading and within 10 days afterwards, King Henry and Jane were married; it would seem all too obvious that Anne's downfall could have been pre-planned since at least late January and some of the men were just used as Pawns. Had Henry been upset or humiliated over the fact that Anne had allegedly committed adultery and had all these lovers, and if he really truly loved her and he was hurt and embarrassed, he would have waited longer to get involved and get remarried. Henry didn't have a time limit on having a son but the women sadly did.
I agree with the Emperor's Ambassador and find him to be a highly amusing man. Anne Boleyn was definitely not a harlot or concubine but I don't think he was aware that Anne and Henry did not ever consummate their relationship until the end of December 1535. Jane Seymour had not the intelligence or intellect that Catherine of Aragon or Anne Boleyn had either. I don't believe that she had their virtue either. I am most certain that Henry did not either marry a virgin or she certainly wasn't one when they married.
Jane like anne was a home wrecker. I still feel bad for anne. Henry the eighth was a monster and i hope he is still burning in hell.
How could he not be?? Except he was appointed by God, and God on Earth, right? Oh wait, that was just Henry's story of how it worked.
I really dislike him. I don’t like violence, but I’d be hard pressed to not inform him the man’s contribution is what decides the sex of the baby, then just give him a punch, or slap, or perfectly aimed kick at the offending organ.
That being said. I wouldn’t wish hell on him. There are so many kinds of ideas of what it’s like. A burned wasteland, a labyrinth of demons, layers with prisoners separated by crime, being boiled alive or frozen to one spot just inches away from relief, or an icy darkness, or just fire and pain, or demons pulling you apart bit by bit until there is nothing left and you reconstitute only for them to do it again, or darkness and nothing and isolation from God.
I wouldn’t want someone to suffer that for hundreds of years. I do hope, though, that he had to account for his life and his actions, and had to feel the pain he put them through. The heartache and pain and fear and desolation and abandonment and shame. If he felt that, and understood that pain and relived it, if he realized just how it impacted them, perhaps he may have gotten it. Maybe he’d understand how sick his actions were. Maybe if he was disgusted with himself and wished for all his heart he could take it back, maybe that, added to a sincere belief, might have saved him from a fate of endless punishment.
Also if his actions were in part due to mental illness, that may have an impact on things.
I just, the idea of Hell for anyone; I can’t imagine. I really strongly dislike him. He was a tyrant and a murderer, but forever is a long time to suffer. My schadenfreude does, it seems, have its limits after all! 😅
So many have loved a bad boy, and boy was he bad! I think with Jane's change in dress, and her ear to the ground, plus her new attitude of "I am the Queen,,,,,and you're NOT," she had to have known where things were headed, or in this case beheaded.
Oof, beheaded. I’d say, “too soon,” but I feel the general public would not agree. But for us diehard Anne fans, it’s *always* too soon. Hundreds of years have done nothing to change the injustice and pain that verdict caused.
Jane had been a loyal lady in waiting to Katherine, so she probably strongly disliked Anne.
I wonder if the King had ordered the swordsman who was the executioner from France yet?
Who knows what would have happened if she had lived longer , she became a martyr to Henry basically, because she died so young plus the son of course
The more I hear about her death and fall, the less I understand why it took place. Anne was surrounded by the men she'd always know, and had always had as friends. The notion of cheating we have today might be a bit off to look at her behavior. Annw grew up in Pastoral, ancient Royal England with a fews years in the French court thrown in. Anne must have truly been the fall woman for Henry having no son. That's the only thing that truly makes any sense, even with predatory nobles trying to get their females wed to him.
Elizabeth 1 she is realized genetic from anne and hendr 8 ..strange, beautiful intelligence, strong 💪 God gave anne grace and blessing
Thank you for the video. I don't understand why the fact Jane Seymour gave Henry a son is the main reason. Jane died of an infection and Edward died as a teenager. Being the favourite wife for having a son does not sit well with me to be honest. Henry defended Katherine Parr, which shows his character more. Jane only became Henry's wife because she refused to me his mistress and sent the purse of money back. It was like Jane was teasing Henry. It was an emotional connection between them both.
Her giving him a son was the main reason.....? For him loving her so much?
I think it’s a mix of him getting his greatest ambition in getting a legitimate son mixed with the sadness that maybe he could have had a lot more with her if she had lived. Add in that the other wives disappointed him and he reacted... badly, and that she didn’t have time to disappoint him, and was forcibly taken away from her right at the peak of her usefulness to him (having proven she could provide boys, since they viewed it as the woman’s fault if it was a girl).
It wasn’t just the boy, but the allure of what could have been, the implicit promise that if she had lived, things would have been perfect. He romanticized it.
I know someone who wasn’t happy in their marriage, and brought up divorce many times. Sometimes it wasn’t in earnest, but often it was. He often chose to stay home while she went on vacation with her family, because he just couldn’t be bothered to go. And he didn’t like that, felt since he wasn’t, she should stay too, and be with him instead.
When she died, that all changed. Perfect marriage, a love so pure. “No couple has ever been more fully devoted and deeply in love as we were.” He said this to a couple that I know as an ACTUAL real life true love story. They managed to hide their surprise. He did nothing for a year. Then his best friend’s wife died and he was coping better, so he began to get back into life so as to not seem to be weak about it. And now he’s basically dating or courting his housekeeper, which is a scandal for many reasons. She’s young enough to be his daughter, for one thing.
Basically. People can talk themselves in circles mentally. They can convince themselves that it was the darkest, blackest, vilest flirtation with damnation, or that it was a ecstatic and serene dream sent from heaven, and only ended so soon because mortal men are not worthy of such bliss.
And of course, that narrative changes when required. It’s... mythologizing of the self. Very frustrating.
Henry defended Katherine Parr for his own purposes not hers
I love your work Claire. The audio however, sounds like you are recording under water. It makes for painful listening. I hope you are not using the camera mic?
I think it’s just the room she’s in; it’s not usually this distorted. It’s just so echoey. I like the look, but the sound is less than ideal. Hopefully the work on the building will be finished soon, if that’s why she’s filming in there.
It looks like a kitchen...hard surfaces causing echoes.
I am so confused
What are you confused on, Trisha?
Jane Seymor knew what had happened to Ann, and she felt no remorse. She is a real piece of work herself. She is as horrible a human being as Henry.
Susan Bedingfield we don’t know what she thought, but maybe having seen what Henry was capable of doing to women who displeased him she thought she should shut her mouth and go along with what Henry and her family were pushing for. After all Jane had been one of Katherines ladies and one of Anne’s and she would clearly have known what happened when you incurred the wrath of Henry.
Jane must have been elated to know she was next in the long list of Queens. Jane must have know of the King’s roving eye and she needed to produce male heirs.
Almonte Paolilli A sensible woman would have been terrified.
HOW could Henry justify his actions, even to himself? There had been terrible and dangerous queens in England in the past and they were not executed. WHY did Henry think he could justify the bloodbath preceding his marriage to Jane? I cannot imagine what she was thinking or how she justified marrying him. Perhaps she believed the terrible charges? Maybe Anne´s privy chamber had been too free and gay and the dour Jane had disapproved when she was lady in waiting?
I recently read a bit of ancient Greek history and remembered quickly why I do not like it. The rulers tended to murder their families, even the children. Talk of ¨Greek tragedy¨! Yet Henry VIII, the ¨renaissance prince¨ behaved nearly the same way. How could he have gone from Defender of the Faith to ignoring all the gentle admonitions of Jesus? I wonder what he thought of the woman taken in adultery and Jesus asking the mob who would cast the first stone?
Then to consider he killed his fifth wife! By that time he had a son and mercy was a viable option. If Henry had killed one more wife we might be debating whether or not he was a serial killer. If we count the men that also died with these queens, we might be able to call Henry a serial killer.
Henry had MANY more people killed than just his two wives, and those surrounding them.
He actually had thousands killed during his reign, so, yes, even though they weren't killed by his own hand, he was just as guilty, and I suspect he watched quite a few of those deaths, maybe in costume as he was known to do, or in a safe hiding spot, because it was thrilling and made him feel powerful to play God with those people's lives.
Yes, he was a narcissist and psychopath.
@@janicem9225 I have loosely asked on another Day in Tudor History, one that revisited yet another execution, what was the mindset of these people? Was life so short and natural deaths so terrible that execution did not mean the same to them as it does to us? Most went to church daily, sometimes multiple times a day. What did they miss in the kind, loving, forgiving words of Christ? Henry and his henchmen remind me of modern day Mafia in the U.S. "Nothing personal but go swim with the fishes."
We know now that people who are cruel to animals are often cruel to people. True, the Tudors had pets, may even have loved and spoiled them. On other occasions, torturing animals was spectator sport. I will spare the ugly details but mention that one source says Anne of Cleves was enthralled watching bull baiting when Henry paid his surprise visit. If Henry was unable to ride and shoot he had deer enclosed and turned large, vicious dogs loose on them. That was considered a day's "hunting."
I notice that you do not refer to the jockeying for position by ambitious and semi-powerful or powerful families. Nor do you mention the part religion played in all this...catholic, protestant etc etc.
Women in those days were pawns used to further the ambitions of their families.
Haha, it's quite entertaining that it's so very obvious that you don't like Jane Seymour. No worries, she's not a favourite of mine either 😉
The king was a traitor to his own family hope he is in hell
Fab video, Claire. You look like you've lost weight. You certainly have a "little neck". 😀
Ugh.
this is the milky faced girl
no its was cathrine howard
The king was a traitor to his own family hope he is in hell