When Phil Collins was Replaced and Genesis FLOPPED!
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- Опубликовано: 29 фев 2024
- This video is about when Genesis frontman Phil Collins quit the band and was replaced with Scottish Alt. Rocker Ray Wilson. The last remaining members of Genesis, Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks, attempted to keep Genesis on life support with this new frontman. Unfortunately, the general public had tired of this sound at this point, coupled with Ray Wilson's Christian-Rock sounding vocals, this album bombed big time and is not typically in the conversation as a "real" Genesis record.
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#genesis #philcollins #review 
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i like the "calling all stations" album very much. "congo", "dividing line", "one man's fool", "not about us", ... - great songs.
I love Genesis from From Genesis To Revelation to Calling All Stations. Nuff said.
Agreed. They did lose me for a moment in the '80s, but their peak years were definitely '67 to '97.
Anything after Duke you can have it....
" Poor old Albert" .....
He was good as the Duke@@tdom2957
Ray Wilson is a great singer, and Calling All Stations is a good album. It's just not a "great" album, but that's more the fault of Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford not really writing their best material. But it was good enough to try at least one more album with Ray. Ray is "bitter" because the studio signed him up to a 3 album contract that backloaded almost all of his earnings to the latter 2 albums, and then Tony and Mike decided to just cancel Genesis. So Ray ended up getting into financial trouble when his end of the contract was flushed down the drain... and whatever success he could have had on his own is just gone now that he's "that OTHER Genesis singer."
As for the Last Domino tour, that was a farewell tour. Phil was still singing fine in his "Not Dead Yet" tour, and they just wanted to give fans one last moment with Phil. It was fine, not great, but fine.
how do you know that much inside baseball about Ray's contract?
Then it was a risky contract for Ray, he should have negotiated better. This sounds as if the studio wanted to be safe and not have too many expenses in case of an (expectable) flop.
Calling all Stations better than that sh-te Jesus he knows you
Person doing this video sounds really thick,sorry but my opinion
@@DancingwithGhosts He's said all of this publicly. And yes, joachimb5721, it absolutely was the record company trying to play it safe, and it worked out well for them. On the point though, Shipwrecked is just a 90s version of Throwing It All Away, and I like both songs. Calling All Stations is good for anyone who's felt at a low point in their life. I don't care for the lyrics of One Man's Fool, but it's a last little salve of Progressive Rock to end the album (and Genesis as a whole.)
In Wilson's defense, I don't think anything short of bringing back Gabriel and Hackett would have kept Genesis going by that point.
a small niche group of us would have been thrilled (myself included) but the mainstream wouldn't have cared
I think their biggest mistake was not including Daryl and Chester as full band members. They would definitely have retained more members of their fanbase if they had.
Bringing Gabriel back would be a masterstroke, whether he could sing the later music authentically might be an issue
@@premajanWhy? Those guys didn’t write anything.
@@gabbleratchet1890 At least they had been with the band for 15 years at that time. I think more people would have come and see Banks, Rutherford, Stuermer, Thompson and the 'new guy', than Banks, Rutherford and three nobodies, which was more like a glorified tribute band.
I was stoked when I heard Congo on the radio. I personally love the record. After “We Can’t Dance”, this is exactly what us die hards needed. That period didn’t even feel like Genesis but more Phil solo. Mike and Tony are what I like best about the band so it works for me. Big chords and massive bass pedals. Phil is a great arranger and really good at keeping things in check, but I love when those two let loose. Calling All Stations is a victim of “if someone says it enough, it must be true.” Through a set of great headphones it sounds REALLY good! Love Ray and it sucks they did him dirty. Of course he’s not close to Phil or Peter level, but I dug his approach and deem it a great addition to the catalog.
i thought the music was good but Ray's voice did not do it for me at all
When I first heard Congo, or better: the announcement in the radio, I rushed to the tape deck and recorded it for the waiting time until the slbum will be released. I was so disappointed when the album actually came out - my tape/radio version sounded so much better! The singing was more in the background, the instrumental part sounded great, and the single version didn‘t have this embarrassing tribal pseudo-african part in the end. And then I heard If That’s What You Need and … well, that really was what I needed to have my day finally ruined :)
Had they continued with Daryl and Chester, would've at least sounded like Genesis live. The drummer(s) alienated me even more than the voice.
Ray Wilson did a fantastic job as lead singer on the last album from Genesis. He was the right choice in the attemp to continue the Genesis legacy.
Phil Collins officially left the band in 1996. People forget that Phil is only one-third of the Genesis partnership. The other two, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford, had been founding members before Phil joined. So, I for one was actually happy that Tony and Mike wanted to continue on with what they said would be a "darker, heavier sound" akin to the Peter Gabriel era of Genesis. This excited me because, as a long-time Genesis fan, I wanted to see a departure from the AOR Phil-pop sound. Unfortunately, the album didn't quite deliver what was promised, and without a core member with loyal fans. As former Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett said, the material wasn't as dark and heavy as it could have been. Yes, the album didn't do as well as prior albums, but that's not to say it's not worth a listen. There are some solid tracks, including the title track "Calling All Stations," the second half of "Alien Afternoon," "The Dividing Line," "There Must Be Some Other Way," and the epic "One Man's Fool." These tracks are definitely missing Phil's touch, but are still heavier, driving songs than most material Genesis put out in the 80s and 90s. So not an absolute flop to me.
i agree the music is good.. also darker.. but Ray's voice was just so not right for it.. hell i would've rather Tony sang on it.
@@DancingwithGhosts Ray was hit or miss for me. He nailed it on some sections, while in others, he sounded like a bad Michael Bolton. I think it was the result of finishing the instrumental tracks and having him sing over them with their fingers crossed. Phil and Peter were more invested in the songs they sang, which gave the songs more personality. "Calling All Stations" lacked that personality in the vocals. But there are a few good moments. I wonder how it would have gone if they had reworked the songs with Fish as the vocalist. I think Fish's voice would have provided a more traditional Gabriel/Collins-esq Genesis sound, whereas Ray was a radical departure, which didn't sound like Genesis. If for any reason Tony and Mike want to revisit a Genesis project, I think Phil's son Simon would be an interesting choice as a vocalist. Unlikely to happen, but who knows.
Much of it didn't end up being that much darker and heavier. In fact a lot of the b sides were better than the album cuts. What a lot of people don't realize is Phil wasn't always responsible for the more accessible and AOR sound attributed to him on latter day Genesis albums. Further, there were longer Genesis tracks Phil wanted to do that ended up being discarded for touring purposes, which likely meant he got out voted by Mike and Tony. Sometimes he simply got a bad rap with Genesis because of his high profile solo work.
@@CygnusRoc I agree that "Calling All Stations" could have been a much darker and heavier slbum than what was offered. It was only a notch heavier than "We Can't Dance," while trying to peddle some AOR sounding tracks that seemed cold and lifeless compared to the Phil Genesis. I also agree that Tony and especially Mike were guilty of contributing to the pop sound. As I grew older, I developed more appreciation for Phil and his contributions to Genesis. He was a tremendous drummer and showman. You can clearly see that he enjoyed performing the old long tunes just as much as the radio friendly stuff. So I've come around from my blaming Phil solely for the pop sound that crept into Genesis during the 80s and 90s.
@@CygnusRoc Oh and I'm with you on the B-side material being some of the better material left off of CAS. I've always thought Genesis outakes would have been better album choices than some of the material that was included. That's another topic for another time.
Yeah, Banks and Rutherford are dispassionate figures. When Peter Gabriel's wife and child almost died, both of them were unsupportive. It didn't surprise me that they thought Phil was fit enough to perform when he was in such poor shape.
@@kbrewski1 Hey, show some manners, pal. Don't speak to me like that.
@@kbrewski1* she, it was his daughter that was ill she had gunk on her lungs and it was apparently a difficult birth for his wife.
Nice try at rewriting history, mate. The entire band were dispassionate towards Gabriel in that situation because Gabriel had just recently ran off to Hollywood to work with William Friedkin and they didn't even know if he was coming back to finis The Lamb, and the record label wanted the album done ASAP. It was a very difficult time for the band. There was growing animosity within the ranks and they were young, ambitious and naturally quite ruthless. Collins and Hackett were just as dispassionate as Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett himself in the midst of a divorce.
Oh, and by the way, they've all stated since that they should have been more understanding and regret how uncaring they were towards Peter's situation.
You should consider that you might not know every detail of the relationship of people fourty / fifty years ago that you never even met in person.
Sorry, maybe Is not classic genesis, but i love the "calling all stations" album...
Great job making a video on a topic that I found really interesting. I never knew that Genesis tried to pull a Van Halen with Gary Cherone for one last album.
they really underestimated the Banks/Collins/Rutherford magic (Cinema show/Domino/Home by the Sea etc)was the secret to their success
I think calling all stations was a natural successor to we can't dance. The fact that Ray can perform Genesis, even Phil and Peter songs is a testament to how well these guys worked together. Genesis was a band that only did the same album twice, and would move on, leaving a portion of their audience behind.
Or the majority of their audience, to be precise.
Which two albums are you referring to?
Foxtrot and Nursery crime are kind of similar. Duke and Abacab are kind of similar. Genesis and Invisible touch are kind of similar. If Phil had stayed, We can't dance and Calling all Stations would also have been.
@@fcharrua I beg to differ (in opinion, of course), ABACAB is a totally new sound and band than DUKE. Trespass, Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot were in a way similar but I think they kept going back to finally get it right (Foxtrot is definitely right), from there each album, to me is markedly different til maybe the last two or three (not including Calling All Stations). Kinda interesting that Genesis's very first and last albums were, well, not Genesis. But overall we are on the same page, Genesis always strived to change up the sound -that's one good reason to like them. I mean really, 12 Foxtrots??
Duke and Abacab was the central step from Prog to Pop.
Phil was fun. He always had a great voice. Still love him today. Best ever. Success is success.
"Angels never know it's time/To close the book and gracefully decline"
"There's an angel standing in the Sun/Free to get back home!"
Really interesting history lesson! Great job!
(I found you because I’m a big Frankie fan, btw-hope to hear you on their podcast again sometime!)
ya imma probably bug them about being on again, i'm big on inviting myself to things
For Ray, Genesis was "just a job to do"...
Genesis started to go downhill artistically after Wind And Wuthering. No need to do a hit piece on Ray Wilson, it was not his fault that Tony and Mike had not only lost their Progressive writing Mojo, but had also lost their Pop writing mojo.
If only Phil hadn’t fallen for his Swiss translator… that’s why he left the band. She seemed to have an Invisible Touch that was probably visible to everyone other than Phil.
Another great video on my favourite band. Thanks Josh 👍
Not only that, Angie Rutherford and Margaret Banks adored Jill, so they were not about to let that lunatic Orianne into their circle, so that's the dirty little secret
“Propped him up onstage” ummm he wanted to do it 😀
Can you get over it? It was years ago. It was a wonderful thing to have the chance to see him onstage, even if he was sitting, and even if the songs were lower. IT WAS GOOD! You may think it was an abomination and that’s fine, but you have to at least admit he was doing his best at enjoying himself. Look at the 2007 tour, he was trying his best but it didn’t always seem like he was enjoying himself, come to find out he was destroying his back for us.
He was just giving us everything he had and I think that’s admirable
Great video. I’m a fan of Phil Collins and old school genesis and had no idea about this chapter of their career. That fart noise was edited in with perfect timing 😂. Also congrats on reaching 12k subscribers.
For a real treat, check out Steve Hackett - Genesis Revisited - Live at the Royal Albert Hall (2013), with Nad Sylvan on vocals. I wish I had been there!!
he came through my town recently but tickets were so damn expensive i stayed home.. it's like he thought he WAS Genesis
I've seen Hackett many times in the UK and the ticket are very reasonable, in fact they were a third of the Last Domino prices. I suspect Hackett left Genesis because of Banks who must have been unbearable to work with.
Awesome.
I’ve seen Steve a couple of times too. His tickets are about the same a The Musical Box!
Fantastic video! I remember when this album came out, i was 7 and half who only remembers Genesis (as well as Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins solo stuff) for their biggest hits before discovering all of their catalog. My mom puts Calling All Stations on Stereo Hi Fi, the moment I heard for the first few minutes and thinking “is this real Genesis? The new lead singer barely resembles Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel.” Not only that but the music lacks interesting ideas and melodies. It could have been on Mike and The Mechanics album, not much of a Genesis album, all things considered. I mean that album came out in the middle of post-alternative and electronic dance music movements and in the height of Radiohead’s “OK Computer” era. I can’t remember most of the songs from Calling All Stations, they’re just not very interesting to talk about. That sounds very sleepy on my first listen. So, my mom wants her money back and delivered Calling All Stations on Library Stores and never touch that album ever again.
Damn, another banger of a video.
Your content always seems to have a strange sense of familiarity to it to me. I think it's in part that you talk about things are things that I like as well but that witty bit of humor along with it. ABACAB is one of my favorite Genesis songs, along with Turn It On Again.
Thanks again for making videos.
Your shirt is really cool.
thanks m8!
For me, "Calling All Stations" is like "From Genesis To Revelation", but only done at the opposite end of Genesis' career. Oh and in the intervening 30 years had acquired the method of writing credible songs.
Why I say that the two albums were comparable is that: "Calling All Stations" seems to be an album that was similar-ish to what Genesis became, but yet it were different... just like how "From Genesis To Revelation" bore no resemblance to what Genesis became.
For me, "Calling All Staions" isn't a bad album... there's some decent sounding tracks there, just that I get the impression that somehow there was something missing that I can't quite put my finger on... 🤷
Y'know considering how I've been a Genesis fan since the mid eighties, and never seen any of their epic performances live whatsoever, I was massively stoked when I finally got the chance to see them on what would be their final tour, AND at a venue/stayed in a hotel within three hours' travelling distance, but then Covid-19 happened... along with all the talk of precautionary measures at concert venues thrown in too. With a heavy heart I cancelled... as I couldn't be bothered with all the restrictions that were in place in those days. But I heard along the way that accessing the venue was straightforward... so I cancelled for nothing! 😐 Ultimately I'll have to live with the fact that I was robbed of my one and only chance to see live one of the last of the titans of seventies-era Prog bowing out with what turned out to be one final hurrah before waltzing off into the sunset, so to speak 😐
yeah man that covid 19 period was a nightmare
Following Genesis from 70's to last live show. As a bassist Calling All Stations is a very good album, especially interesting structure.
With Nir Z, which is a great drummer.
It's simply not true that cas is a shit. It's also not true that the blame is of ray wilson (he does a good job singing). It's a 6/10 album in genesis standards (not worse than invisible touch or we can't dance)and a 7.5/10 album in pop/rock music standars of this period. By the way, to judge the quality of a record by the sells in this or that country is an absolutely nonsense (selling england by the pound is one of the 5 best records in modern music, without connsidering if sold much or less, which depends of a lot of things not relationed with the quality of the music)
They may have flopped commercially, but Genesis still managed to come up with a handful of new songs that were as good as anything they'd done previously.
"The Dividing Line". "There Must Be Some Other Way". Great songs. And you could even argue that neither Phil or Peter would've been able to sing them as well
as Ray Wilson did. But sure, Genesis were pretty much finished the moment Collins walked out the door.
Hey man, how old are you? I swear you gotta be younger than I, (I’m 42) yet you continually cover very specific topics that I’d usually think only people my age would pick. Either you’re older than I think you are or you’ve just got good taste in music and media.
Btw, nice to see you getting all this unexpected exposure on H3! I damn near shit seeing you in his vid lol.
He’s 33
*35... I'd like to think I have good taste in music/media. Plus my dad got me into a lot of this stuff when I was super young and it sounded good to my ears
@@Whiteyy191 And it looks, sounds, and comes off like
I literally just listened to 'Down & Out,' that boy Phil Collins is a monster. I kind of see why he gets so shit-talked though, I remember watching Disney's Tarzan on VHS with my siblings long ago, and at the end of the tape there was a Phil Collins music video where his "band" was a composite shot with Phil Collins playing every instrument, and my sister had such a viscerally negative reaction to it, I forget exactly what she said but it might have been "stick it up your ass Phil Collins!"
haha damn poor phil.. he really can play most of the instruments .. but drums and vocals were always his forte
I wasn't even aware Genesis replaced Phil. I thought Hackett did a great job with Nad Sylvan filling in for Gabriel, but the guy they got to replace Phil was lackluster.
Really good video. I’ve seen a bunch of your stuff related to Red Cow, AVGN, etc, but definitely wanted to comment on this since I’m a big Genesis fan.
I was late to the party, born in 84 I definitely grew up with a childhood absolutely full of Genesis/Phil singles on the radio for years. Wasn’t until I revisited the band in about 2002 or so with the “Turn it on again” hits album that I found out about Ray Wilson, since “Congo” was on that compilation. I couldn’t get into it, and despite becoming enough of a fan to check out some earlier Gabriel era albums and fully dive into the Collins albums, I never did check out Calling All Stations.
Lately, I’ve been really into the transitional period between prog-and-pop superstar eras. I’ve always said “Duke” was my favorite of their albums, but I’ve grown a real fondness for “And Then there were Three” recently. Been meaning to go back further and listen to Wind, Trick, etc for the first time in decades.
Anyway, great video. Enjoyable, insightful stuff.
duke ...and then there were three are both super solid early-Collins Genesis albums, i don't think any Genesis fans will spite you for loving those
All albums from Trespass to Then there were three are my go to masterpieces. Bailed out after that. The last domino tour was IMO a complete embarrassment to their legacy with Phil clearly struggling with his health.
It didn't surprise me. They lost a lot of their traditional fans and replaced them with Phil Collins fans. I actually heard people shouting out for them to do his solo songs at a Genesis concert.
Another reason why “Calling All Stations” was critically slaughtered by both Gabriel and Collins fans and in reviews was the change of landscape in the mainstream music scene. In the eighties when Genesis reached their peak with “Invisible Touch,” the music artists of that decade were Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, Tina Turner, George Michael, Huey Lewis and the News, Whitney Houston, Hall and Oates and Cyndi Lauper. By 1997, six years following the release of “We Can’t Dance” which came out the same year as Nirvana’s “Nevermind” which kind of killed off all types of mainstream rock alongside Pearl Jam’s “Ten” and started the Grunge movement, Genesis was pretty much yesterday’s news especially when they had changed their style with Alternative Rock which was kind of the flavour of the month of the middle part of the decade with Ray Wilson as their vocalist (from the Grunge band Stiltskin) as the mainstream music scene was pretty much into Boy Bands such as Boyzone, Hanson, Backstreet Boys and the slow rise of Nu Metal since KoRn was getting more popular with their album “Life is Peachy” released a year prior and Limp Bizkit releasing “Three Dollar Bill Y’all” in the same year. I mean, no one who was watching MTV back in 1997 was going to like Genesis in this time period as they were prominent in the mid to late eighties.
But i do admit, I have to give Ray Wilson some praise for most of the tracks as he sounded a lot like Peter Gabriel in the album such as my personal favourites, “Not About Us” and “The Dividing Line” as Wilson would go on to cover “Solsbury Hill” and “Carpet Crawlers” at most of his concerts, but i kind of didn’t like “Small Talk which sounded way too much like “Sledgehammer.”
Still “Calling All Stations” is an underrated album that didn’t deserve the hate 27 years ago.
Totally agree. Well written. Good job.
All true but you forgot to mention Huey Lewis and the News they were huge in the USA during the early to mid 1980's
@@jeffreywilliams2240added them to my comment now.
Genesis should have just gone back to prog when Collins left.
@@123612100 yep
After the release of We Can't Dance I thought that would be it for Genesis.
So it came as a surprise in 1997 with the release of Calling all Stations with Ray Wilson, a one-off album I was asking myself what was the point.
I guess just a last hurrah for Rutherford and Banks you could say.
I'll watch this video after i make my bed, mr. DWG, i promise I'd watch it now but i really have to make my bed now
Genesis didn't fail with Calling all Stations. The failure was that they didn't follow it up with another album and tour.
Michael McDonald taking over lead vocals for Doobie Brothers is one example where it worked brilliant
Wilson is a great singer, just was at his concert in Poland. The Calling All Stations material and his own music sounds great, but for me he could have skipped the Phil Collins / Peter Gabriel covers. But maybe that's what people in Poland want to hear. I'm going to see and listen to Ray again in the future.
I think Calling all stations is a better album than it's previous two. Duke is the best album from the trio followed by And then there where three from a classic genesis sound point of view. I think the real issue (and again from a classic Genesis perspective) was not replacing Steve Hackett with a guitarist of equal stature. But after all commercial success trumps a loyal fan base every time
The problem is that even the music was too dull, it works in songs like congo, but it falls flat on other songs compared to the energy of PG or Phil, specially in the more vocally driven songs. Even if the last singer was great he had no room to sing more.
The other thing is that in 97 alternative music was being much more boundary pushing and progressive than Genesis. Just look at the generational masterpiece Radiohead released the same year. That was the way to show something groundbreaking thinking out of the box with real impact. Genesis were brave in records like ABACAB to fully embrace the new 80's sound and tecnology. But they were defeated by 90's
I love that you mentioned the WOW CDs because when I was growing up and my parents played Genesis sometimes I would think they were a Christian rock band. That must have been when Ray Wilson took over lol
lol probably, even at a young age I knew Phil Collins had a unique voice and I really liked it... Ray Wilson's vocals I could not pick out of a crowd
Black Sabbath replacing Ozzy with Dio is the absolute best, one-in-a-million replacement in music, imo.
Then they got Tony Martin who was not a bad singer, but they really had no right releasing those albums as Black Sabbath. I’m glad they ended up making another album and EP with Ozzy so they didn’t end their career on a note like Genesis did.
"Congo" was played pretty often on American radio at the time. Kinda surprised the album didn't even crack the top 40. It would have made more sense for it to be realeased under a different band name, but obviously they were counting on the Genesis name to sell records.
was it? wow.. my family only listened to classic rock/christian radio at the time so I wouldn't know even though I woulda been like 9 at the time.. Congo doesn't seem like a song rock radio would wanna play, especially at that time when post-alternative was the thing
yes - under “ Mike & The Mechanics “ 😁👍
I remember when that happened! Good video, I appreciate your videos about artists pulling off weird stunts like that or the Chris Gaines thing.
thanks! I'm gonna keep making them until the pool of weirdness dries up lol
I don’t think CAS is terrible if listened to as a stand alone record and not compared to the rest of their discography. But not that great either. I totally remember the North American tour being postponed at first, then cancelled altogether. Likely for the best.
Ray Wilson was stitched up ,saw them live ,in Glasgow when he fronted genesis.i thought he brought a freshness and spark of energy ,calling all stations had some great tracks,
I saw them live in Kraków in 1997 and I thought they were very good. Wilson’s voice was good for the old Gabriel era material. He certainly didn’t “suck”.
Very interesting vid; thanks for sharing. To me, the first thing to cover were the drums and I felt they did that; no easy task, as PC will always be my favorite drummer, to which I compare all others... of course it could never be the same.... Nick D and Nir Z filled that gap, at least in the studio, to me; again no slight task... and I now see the YT vids of Nir Z live... drums were not the problem; but the voice/personality/group identity...
It was a stretch not to reject CAS... it was a very big adjustment; however, over time, I grew to accept it...there are some great songs, but also some duds on that album for me; Good music is largely what you like or don't; you may like Picasso and it's called great, but if you don't like it, who cares and visa versa. RW said his favorite G song was Mama, so to me that speaks volumes... and spelled a mismatch... But there are some powerful , still-relevant RW songs IMO on CAS... CAS and Dividing Line; but like Congo, I still don't know what that's about...
There was a guy Kevin Gilbert, who I thought captured more of the PC/PG voice and energy (RIP)... I don't know... I put CAS on with headphones by accident once and did not realize what is was (because I don't know all the songs) only to find it was CAS after looking at the CD...there is some powerfully good music there IMO. I also have a live bootleg of the aborted tour... it has a lack of cohesion IMO... an acoustic snippet of Dancing with the Moonlit Knight... come on man... so a lack of identity perhaps... perhaps resolved with time...?
PC has said most of the G sound comes from the writing of MR and TB, not so much him... I wish they had slogged on and produced a next album with RW integrated with the writing... perhaps there could have been a better congealing of what you call G 3.0; or maybe it would have revealed irreparable deep flaws resulting in the same final demise... there was the initial energy to continue and surely they were not planning for failure, ...I may have felt differently had I seen them live, I don't know, but a next album would have been interesting IMO... and there's the obvious business side influence too.
Maybe the burden was in keeping the name and they could have just made a new band without the unachievable expectations recognizing G was over??... Very interesting vid. Thank you!
Man I always really enjoy your perspective on music. Appreciate the history lesson. Genesis always fascinated me, but i wasn't familiar with the evolution of the band.
Genesis became my favorite band back in the mid-to-late '70s and I've considered Phil Collins as my favorite male vocalist since then. Peter Gabriel is probably my second favorite male vocalist. I thought your review of the band and the Calling All Stations album was fair, while also adding that what is considered "good" music is very subjective. One's age and mood also play prominent roles in our musical tastes, IMO. I love Gabriel-era Genesis music, but I also love all of the post-Gabriel Genesis music, including Calling All Stations. I feel that Genesis (and Gabriel/Collins solo work) offers music to satisfy any mood I may drift into. I was 40 when the album Testify came out, and I smashed the CD to bits, because I felt it was lackluster and boring. I bought the album again about 10 years later when I realized I actually started enjoying listening to that music. Today, I consider it a very good album. The bottom line is that music reviews can be fun to read or listen to, but I don't consider the reviewers right or wrong--it's all a matter of opinion. Listen to what you enjoy! I do agree, however, that Phil Collins should have retired from the stage when he was still drawing a crowd because of his music and performances instead of a sympathy gathering. I thought Phil was wiser than that.
The world of social media Eh!! Well everyone has the right to there wrong opinions I suppose. Personally the Genesis album & live catalogue from start to finish stands up against any band in the world. A band that sold out stadiums and arenas all over the world right to the end. I think that says something and deserves respect.....
In my own warped head cannon, We Can’t Dance was Genesis’ last album.
same
I’ve never managed to make it all the way through Calling All Stations.
Having went to a Calling all stations show at Earls court in London, I can assure that not only was it great, but Ray Wilsons voice was on point.
Being a huge Genesis and Phil Collins fan, I really thought once Phil left the band that Genesis had disbanded until the reformed in 2007. Someone told me about the CAS Ray Wilson cd and I refused to listen to it. Finally did a few months ago. As per usual, I totally agree with your take on this. Like it or not, Phil was not only the singer for the band, but also the drummer, and a co-writer, and the IT factor charisma drawing you into the musical performances. Once he’s gone, you’ve lost half the band. If Tony and Mike had started a new band with Ray and called it something else, it might have worked. Phil had won the hearts of people and his voice was able to express many emotions. I can’t imagine Ray singing Duchess or Entangled or any soft, emotional song. Plus the fact that Phil was an actor gave him a huge advantage upfront. He drew you into the moment. To me, Ray sounds like Bono and kind of resembles him, but has none of Bono’s charisma. As we saw in 2007 and 2021, Genesis is Phil. People paid to see him no matter what his health was. Personally I think Genesis should have retired after the 2007 tour. The CAS cd sounds great if you thought it was a band from the 80s. Ray is a good middle road rocker and the songs are good. They just sound all the same to me. He seems one dimensional. I feel sorry for him. He had no chance of success following Phil and I don’t think Tony and might treated him right. What happened to the 3 equal guys thing that Genesis had with Phil? Guess they didn’t realize what a good thing they had in Phil. Phil should never have left Genesis. Major midlife crisis not only screwed him but the band too. Sad ending to my favorite band, but I still listen every day. Was banging out to Duchess on my walk today. That group had the right people at the right time for the greatest music. I’m rambling. Thanks for this video. Loved it.
I just posted the same idea about dropping the legacy name without having read your comment, so I totally agree... and the Bono idea... YES he always reminded me of him on some level, although I never thought of it that way ( I really know nothing of Bono other than recognition). You make many good points and I agree. It was a great time to be alive and experience Genesis...
yeah he did have a lot of Bono tone .. i almost mentioned that but definitely felt those vibes when I was editing
Great job on this one in all ways, I'm loving this series. I definitely learned a good bit more about Phil Collins & Genesis as a whole- I can't think of anything much better I could have stood to aquire some knowledge in on this 4 A.M.
A dear friend of mine's dad used to get drunk often, and we'd usually know he was officially hammered when we heard him mumbling- "Phil Collins is the best..." and whatnot as he came stumbling down the hallway. 😂
bahahahah that was me.. i was your friend's dad cuz i do that
😂😂@@DancingwithGhosts
The “retail radio renditions” you included are fantastic for recognizing the songs because that’s how the majority of the population (myself included) hear them
Also a few of the candidates for Phil’s replacement for CAS were Nick Van Eede who was the lead vocalist for the band Cutting Crew (famous for their 1986/87 hit “I Just Died in Your Arms Tonight”), Fish from Marillion, the late David Longdon of Big Big Train, Francis Dunnery of It Bites and a long time rumour that Kevin Gilbert from the band Giraffe was invited to audition before his untimely death in 1996, there was also a rumour that Paul Carrack from Mike Rutherford’s project “Mike + The Mechanics” was a candidate as well.
oh that's interesting.. i'd be curious as to how you got that info
Nick D'Virgilio (ex Spock's Beard drummer and singer, drummer with Big Big Train and Steve Hackett) went to audition for Genesis as a Collins replacement and in facts he is present in a track of "Calling all stations". He was best friend with Kevin Gilbert (singer, polystrumentist, producer) who was a huge Genesis fan. Both of them wanted to join Genesis : Nick as drummer and Kevin as singer, but unfortunately Kevin died before his audition.
Really? It would have been great to have Kevin Gilbert do Genesis vocals! The guy should have lived long enough to have his big breakthrough, although Last Plane Out did make something of a splash.
If Fish became their new singer, that might have ended up being my favorite Genesis era.
Fish stated in interviews that he wasn't asked. And he said that if he had been asked he would have refused. He did not want to be back in a big band. He'd left Marillion because it was getting too big at the time. Also he had just written a new album (Sunsets on empire) with Steven Wilson (Porcupine tree) that he was very proud of and had put a lot of hopes in to build a successful solo profile
I tend to see it as, not an awful album, but it's not a good one either and I agree it has none of the Genesis magic. I always felt it missed Phil's drumming as well as his frontman skills. The drums do not feel like Genesis, they maybe could have solved that a bit if Chester Thompson had been included in the band. It was definitely a mistake to write an album without the leader singer being involved and I can see why Ray Wilson views it as a job, as he wasn't exactly a member of the band. I don't mind Ray's vocals, but the album is very disjointed.
I would have loved to have seen how things would have panned out if they did a second album, I also wonder who would have been a better fit for the band?
i think they should have at least gone with someone who had more of a tenor range like Phil did. Ray's range was more in the low end which really didn't suite any of the previous Genesis songs and would have floated higher in the mix than that deep baritone which gets bogged down in the mix with all the other bass frequencies
Calling All Stations is a great album it just took time for people to adjust because they loved Gabriel and Phil so much, I was a bit guilty myself but as time passed I realised it is brilliant and so did many others, I think it is sad and bad that the Wilson era is largely ignored by many, so called, fans and by the band themselves. I do not think Ray is bitter, maybe disappointed that they did not try at least one more album, He uses lots of Genesis material, old and new, in his live shows and speaks proudly of his contribution.
Rutherford and Banks....should have called the band 'AFTERGLOW" or something....
done the songs from 'calling all stations' then a selection of old GENESIS numbers....
....actually calling it GENESIS with a new vocalist with the Gabriel / Collins debate still raging....was always going to bomb....
The show I saw with Ray was sold out. The album was good and much better than we expected. Collins left (like Gabriel) so you cannot blame who was left for giving it a pretty good shot. They did not go on because seemingly the American audiences were not turning out. A shame we didn't get another go with Ray.
I could only watch a quarter of this video because its obvious you have no concept or respect for this band. Genesis adapted over their history especially escaping the pitfalls of progressive rock stagnation. The only reason we're even talking about them to this day is because of Phil Collins added contributions. As huge of a star he became, he was humbled to always return to the group. Also, while it was a bit painful to see him in his condition during the last tour, he deserved to be a part of it. I attended 2 shows and let me make it clear; as a band in total, they sounded great. Plus the usual epic light show they were known for.
I'm impressed that you managed to do this entire review without mentioning once any of the drummers who replaced Phil: Bruford and Thompson live after Gabriel left and Divirgilo (sp?) and "Nir Z" when Ray sang.
For as bland as CAS was, it could have been a temporary slump, like maybe And Then There Were Three or even Abacab. I fault fans for not really giving it a shot. I think they were opposed to the IDEA of Genesis without Phil rather than how it ACTUALLY was, even if knowing that would have confirmed their reluctance. I mean, I think I bought it without even hearing anything off of it yet, so where were the sales from people like me? As for the band, shame on them for not including Ray more in the process, or wanting to have a second go of it. They relied too much on America's response. They couldn't keep it going for the sake of their entire home continent of Europe? Like, if their not selling MILLIONS of albums it isn't worth it, like a corporation that tanks when its sales drop to levels most mom and pop business could only dream of. Surely CAS fared better than Tony's solo stuff?
Anyway, my two favorite tracks are Dividing Line and Uncertain Weather. There are some truly abysmal ones that were extras with even WORSE cringe-worthy bad keyboard patches like on Banjo Man and the one with the really fake sax.
I think there are several factor why this Genesis didn't work. 1. Although I think Wilson is a good singer, it was difficult to make him seem an integral part of the band. Collins had the advantage at the time of already being a member of the band and singing backing vocals. When Gabriel left the band and Collins stepped up to the front mic, the audience probably accepted that transition more easily. When Collins left the band, Genesis also lost their drummer and important songwriter. 2. It seems that the three of them struggled to find a musical direction. Now with only Banks and Rutherford left as original members, you can't really hear the musical elements that made Genesis popular, whether in the 70's prog phase or the 80's rock/pop phase. 3. I don't think the timing was right. A lot of big "oldie" rock bands just weren't as popular in the mid-90s because of the musical landscape.
I bought the album in 2003 ish when i was going through their catalogue. the cd still looks brand new, put it that way. My dad is a a massive OG Genesis fan from the 70s/80s and we have never mentioned this record once, and i am 36 now lol
bahahaahahah
Actually no. Phil wrote the lyrics to In Too Deep.
I liked Calling All Stations, and watched quite a few of the shows they did over in Europe, was different without Chester or Phil on drums, but had no problem with Ray. It worked for me. As for the Farewell Tour, the Buffalo show was excellent compared to every other show I tried watching, it was also worth it to say farewell one last time.
This era was a time when Tony and Mike made a complete Genesis touring overhaul. They no longer hired Daryl Stuermer nor Chester Thompson as stage sidemen besides bringing in Ray Wilson. But so much change brought doom to the band. Ray as vocalist would have worked but in a much different context and buildup to creating a new band image and sound.
I'm diggin his voice on the covers(i guess they'd be covers? :P ) .. Researching him (as I didn't know he sang with genesis lol) I found this channel.. Anyways, I think you can reinvent yourself as many times as you wish, No matter your past. He's talented, I believe he could do great if he doesn't give up..
I just happened to walk by the biggest indoors concert venue in Oslo, Norway, when I saw Genesis was performing. I was working in radio at the time, so I had already heard the album, and thought it was even more boring than the We Can't Dance album. And that takes some doing, let me tell ya. Anyway, just out of curiosity, I went to the box office and asked if there were tickets left. And there was. So I bought a ticket, there and then, on a whim. During the We Can't Dance tour, the tickets had sold out minutes after being put on sale. I came into the venue, just as Genesis went on, and the concert itself was pretty good, actually. But the whole thing felt...just off. There was a tribute feeling about the whole thing, and I wasn't surprised when I heard the band decided to pack it in. But Ray was pretty charming on stage, and entertained the audience very well. I also think he did Lamb... very well.
I also think the way Ray was treated by Tony and Mike was appalling. He hasn't even been included in official lineup descriptions, nor has he been included in documentaries or reunions. So it's obvious he was just a hired hand, like Chester and Daryl have been.
I think the band would have gone their separate ways anyway, to tell you the truth. I don't think a new album with Collins would have fared much better than Calling All Stations did. Collins solo albums in the 90s didn't do very well, nor did Mike & The Mechanics, and the music all three of them wrote were for the most part forgettable stuff, like We Can't Dance.
yeah i guess ray was just another hired gun like chester or daryl, interesting read, thanks!
Dividing line is a fine song. Calling all stations is a good one.
I was hoping you'd get around to discussing the Ray Wilson era. Calling All Stations is unremarkable though I'm probably the other person who likes It's Not About Us and the chorus of Alien Afternoon is good. Congo almost gets to mediocre. I can't currently recall any other tracks from that album. Ray Wilson seemed like a nice guy, if you watch the shows he played with Genesis you can tell he was giving it his all but it just didn't work. And what was with the odd fade outs in the songs?
they probably didn't know how to end them.. seems like Phil Collins being a drummer with good instincts probably helped in that department back when he was in the band
Wow. I totally forgot he joined Genesis, but what I do remember is the song ‘inside’ on an advert for a Levi’s 501 jeans.
Unpopular opinion: I’d rather listen to Styltskin than Genesis.
@@HiGlowie I really couldn’t recall any other song by them other than the advert song.
If Kevin Gilbert had made the audition he would have brought something truly special to the band.
putting Ray Wilson's picture is SO unfair. he was invited to sing on ready and finished tracks. The only thing to learn from CAS is how important Phil was to make Tony and Mike's talents shine, besides his own creativity.
Seriously, if you have any fairness, change the clip's pic.
Oh the myth of "Phil killed genesis" is so tired. Listen to Tony's solo albums to hear how much he wanted and tried to create successful solo pop.
Great vid!
Great stuff, didn't expect a Genesis recap tbh. I did grew up listening to my mom's vynils and Invisible Touch was one of em lol... I gotta say, as I got older though, the layering/echo/reverb thing on his vocals did start to increasingly piss me off 😂 In hindsight, you don't just throw away one of your trademarks I guess hehe.
As for replacements, yeah... they hardly ever work. One recent example for me was this band called Mayan Factor, a prog rock band with some cool tribal/ethnic nuances I was into. Then the vocalist died from a heroin overdose in 2011... couldn't believe that shit. Loved his vocals in songs like "Warflower" for instance. Eventually a new guy came on but I just checked out after hearing some of their newer stuff...
Anyways, yeah long ass post but you make good ass insightful videos that make people engaged 😂
I Found Calling All Stations, Sounding Like Warmed Over Mike & The Mechanics. But.... When I heard Calling All Stations on the Radio, I Was Excited. It Sounded Fresh. But Unlike Trick Of The Tail. Genesis Went to Poland and Played Stadiums. It Was A Bad Move. If they Followed the Trick Of The Tail Formula, Come to America , & Play Theaters. It was a Cash Play, And The US Tour was Cancelled. Genesis Was Toast.
1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. A Trick of the Tail
3. Selling England By The Pound
4. Foxtrot
5. Abacab
6. Duke
7. And Then There Were Three
8. Genesis
9. Wind & Wuthering
10. Invisibile Touch
11. We Can't Dance
12. Nursery Cryme
13. Trespass
14. Calling All Stations
15. From Genesis to Revelation
This is my Genesis ranking :)
this is pretty close to what my ranking would be.. their 80's stuff would be a little higher though.
I personally feel that they would have done better if they would have, at the very least, made it a priority to have Daryl and Chester on the tour if not, heaven forbid, invited them to become actual members. That would have helped people maybe transition a little better. But, it was just too many new faces and too hard to relate to I feel.
Now, it's a long shot, and there's no way in hell Peter would do it, but I wish the band would tour playing The Lamb Lies down on Broadway. Since we know Pete's out, the next best thing may be to have Simon Collins on vocals and drums (who looks and sounds so much like Phil its uncanny) and Nic playing the role of Chester. And if he's up for it, invite Steve Hackett to take part. If he's not, then you have Daryl.
And perhaps it would have Phil's blessing because both his boys can continue in his place.
So many things that could be said here. I agree that Ray Wilson probably wasn't the best choice to take over the vocals. But at the same time, Ray doesn't deserve the hate, Mike and Tony picked him. Also, many people may not agree with me, but I thought the Calling All Stations album was pretty good. Not Genesis' best material by any means, but still quite enjoyable, and I really liked the single Not About Us. And no, I'm not an 80s fanboy or anything, my two favorite Genesis albums are A Trick of the Tail and Selling England By The Pound. The weirdest thing I found about CAS the first few times I listened to it was the abrupt fade-outs they did on the songs. But I stopped noticing that after a few more listens. And thanks to the internet, I've discovered several unused tracks that were recorded for the Calling All Stations sessions, and think some of them could have easily been on the album. They should re-release CAS with these tracks added as bonus tracks. Although I'm pretty sure they won't, since CAS didn't do very well.
My first choice for a new singer would have been Fish from Marillion. His voice had that plastic, changeable quality to it that was similar to Phil or Peter, but still distinctive in its own right. And Tony had even had worked with Fish, Fish sang on a Tony Banks song that was released on the Soundtracks album. So Tony at least, knew of Fish and what he sounded like. And both Tony and Mike had worked with various artists in their solo careers and in Mike and the Mechanics. So why didn't they at least get Paul Carrack to take over the lead vocal? Still, in all fairness, Ray does sound like Peter Gabriel in his later career, like on the album Up. He just doesn't sound like him in his Genesis days.
Anyway, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I think that from Ray, in the "job" interview, you can feel a lot of bad blood and hard feelings. I mean, who likes to be sacked from a band ? The "Calling All Station" album was ok, but the production was poor and uninspired. Some of the songs (Calling All Station, Uncertain Weather) could have been way better with a better production (Nick Davis was the producer, but you get the feeling that this doesn't work out). I've seen the "Calling All Station" tour. Ray Wilson was interesting on some of the Peter Gabriel era songs (The Lamb, Carpet Crawlers) but you could feel a lack of energy. Not to mention the new drummer and guitar player that didn't help (and they were good musicians). Ray Wilson is more an AOR/Alternative rock singer than a singer for a band like Genesis ( a stadium pop/prog band).
it's funny the people who comment on this video i immediately know if you're british or not given the terms you use... when you said ''sacked'' i was like yep... we get us another brit! thanks for the comment :)
@@DancingwithGhosts I know the American term is "fired" instead of "sacked" ! 😉 (when the subject is lineup changes within a rock/metal band). Thanks for the comment, anyway :)
When listening to Genesis from start to finish (My dad is a huge fan of Peter Gabriel era) and came to THIS. It felt so like Van Halen 3 with Gary Cherome. I'm wondering if anyone in the studio said something like: "Yeah, this is not the path that we are looking for"
I think the album was "fine". Most of the songs are good just because they're Banks and Rutherford compositions, but Ray's voice doesn't do anything for them.
In my mind, I treat it like a one-off Banks and Rutherford collab, and that makes it a lot more palatable.
yeah i just completely don't dig Ray's voice with the music. If you've ever listened to any of Tony Banks' solo stuff he tends to go after the ''pretty sounding'' singers who are technically good but there's no character to their voices .. this is the same thought process that happened with Ray I believe
Ray Wilson sounds like a grunge version of Lemmy from that first stiltskin song you played.
I tried to get their Manager to TRY getting PHIL OUT OF THE CHAIR....using aerial wires to allow him to stand...even at a podium....AT LEAST FOR THE LAST SHOW!!! Sounds weird, but it could have been done/tried. Slumping in the chair applies pressure to the diaphragm. I was appalled, still am at his concert Voice. The Last Show in Boston ...in the USA forever!!....he was stronger than up in Pittsburgh. It's sad he "went out" slumped in a chair, wearing track clothes, unshaven.
Jack Hues (Wang Chung) could have been another strong candidate seeing how he just did Strictly Inc with Banks and does have a great vocal tone
Give an unbiased listen to _Run Out Of Time_ song - it really is a treat and it was a throw-away from the CAS album. It certainly contains some fine stuff. Also, Ray's characteristic voice should not be underrated - kind of a mid-way mix between Peter Gabriel and Sting.
What a fantastic video have a wonderful day ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊
4:17 - So that's how a totally brought in chick looks like! Wow.
them stock image internet girls are getting hot these days!
Great topic, Ghosts. Huge Genesis fan here and I agree with everything you said. While CAS isn't the worst album ever, it's definitely very flawed. It's pretty simple - when you have mediocre melodies, mediocre instrumentation, and mediocre singing by a frontman who possessed little of the charisma Phil and Peter has in spades, you're going to be a flop - especially with the changing musical landscape.
Also Phil was far more of a backing vocalist than occasional, but yes he was a backing vocalist.
He did have lead on for absent friends and more fool me during Peter’s tenure
I love the folksy numbers he did on Anthony Phillips’ The Geese & The Ghost one which was a duet with a lady & another acoustic or folksy song he appeared on Steve Hacketts’ Voyage of the Acolyte .
What did you think of the Goonies AVGN?
A boring, standard AVGN episode of modern times. Sadly it didn't even suck enough to warrant any kind of extended commentary,
Pretty good take on the Genesis swan song. I've been a fan since Foxtrot and stopped after ABACAB, (ugh!). Many of my generation would say that after the musically vapid but VERY lucrative 80's the turdling named "Calling All Stations" was a fitting finale for this band of aging millionaires.
Peter/Phil is 👍
Peter Gabriel said that Phil is a phenomenal arranger- besides boring compositions, Calling All Stations missed Phil’s musical sensibilities
Tony and Mike should have brought in Fish from Marillion for this project - who was way more like Peter Gabriel. Ray Wilson was a stretch to say the least. Calling All Stations is a decent album with a few "classic" tracks like you mentioned - There's Must Be Some Other Way, The Dividing Line and One Man's Fool. They should have given it one more chance with Ray, but there was too much money at stake and history with Phil. The 2007 tour was really good. They should have left it there and not brought back Corpse Collins for the final tour (I do LOVE Phil but that was sad). Nice video! Cheers, Ian
08:57 why did I laugh so hard at this 😂
bro I am soo fucking immature I laughed anytime I went over this part in the editing phase.. I just knew it had to be done.
The Genesis wives, Margaret and Angie, were great friends eith Jill, snd when Phil went for the babysitter, that was the reason, anybody who was ever married understands the wife social club
Well done!
I couldn't agree more, Phil Collins should have retired earlier, and that new singer and that version of Genesis was terrible.
I had just watched that last gig with Collins last night, and even though the rest of the band gave stellar performances, it made me sick seeing Collins like that.
Phil Collins is my favorite drummer, and his Genesis performances got me into Peter Gabriel and all things Genesis.
What are your thoughts on Anthony Phillips, one of the original founders of Genesis?
Rock On!
I remember when it came out, I offered to pay a friend to listen to it with me. It was that bad.