Armies and Tactics: Greek Armies during the Peloponnesian Wars
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- Опубликовано: 17 июл 2024
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In the new episode of the Armies and Tactics series we are discussing the changes that happened in the Greek Warfare during the Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta. The hoplites were still dominant, but the lighter versions of them were developed, and a number of Hellenic city-states started using cavalry and skirmishers in order to gain the upper hand in battles. This series will be concluded in two weeks and we will move on to the reforms of Philip of Macedon, so exciting stuff on the way.
A very talented animator/illustrator Benjin Pratt created most of the animations used in this video, while the research was done by an aspiring historian Andreas Kokkinoftas.
Previous videos in the series: goo.gl/jz4B6E
Support us on Patreon: / kingsandgenerals or Paypal: paypal.me/kingsandgenerals
We are grateful to our patrons and sponsors, who made this video possible: docs.google.com/document/d/1X...
This video was narrated by Officially Devin ( / @offydgg & / @gameworldnarratives )
Machinimas for the video made on the Total War: Rome 2 Engine by Malay Archer ( / mathemedicupdates )
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I had my whole day planned but now, after watcing this i have to forfeit all the plans and play total war
Plan your Thursdays and Sundays accordingly, please. :-)
Badnercalabrese Will check It out, man! Thanx for the advice!!
Badnercalabrese Will do :)
Should've started spartan training instead :)
its a shame wrath of sparta is not that enjoyable
We made a mistake. Should be Rhodians, and not Rhodesians.
If anyone from Bethesda reads this. Dude, we were waiting for Elder Scrolls VI. What is going on?
You are going to buy Skyrim again and you are going to like it
xD!!!!
What did you think of the travesty that was the battlefield V trailer
Doing an Elder Scrolls vid?
They're too busy making battle royal fallout games :(
Last week, my little brother told me that his History teacher show one if your videos in class to exemplify the society in the Incan Empire. I saw the video then and now I almost saw all of your videos, they're just so fun and easy to understand (even for not english-native speakers). Really well done! Ty.
Thank you, good sir, that is really inspiring. :-)
BTW, there will be 2 more videos in that series.
@Tl2aV Oh please, another armchair historian expert🙄
@Tl2aV No they actually don't. Kings and generals is one of the few channels that is accurate. If you have such a problem with it get off your lazy fucking ass and make your own channel. Til then shut the fuck up. Cause you clearly don't study history.
The narrator for these videos is awesome.
Yes, Devin is great!
Kings and Generals You could have at least liked my comment 😒
prntscr.com/jp5doj
Haha... You went all this length just to show me that you actually liked my comment. That's great. But i guess i was fishing for a ❤.
Kings and Generals Don't spoil me;-) .... Anyway great content. Keep it up.
My guess the club symbol for Thebes is a reference to Heracles who was supposed to have been born in that city.
Correct! They also used the Sphinx, who according to Greek mythology, was guarding the entrance to the Ancient City of Thebes asking riddles to the travelers.
The club is also the symbol of my town in Alsace, France. The story is that Herakles came, got drunk on beer and forgot his club. *true story*
@@Liopot68 That is so neat!
Correct! I have no knowledge or expertise on the subject but I'll pretend like I do so I can tell you you're right and make you feel good about yourself!
Great video. A lot of informations "compressed" in a relatively short video, yet at the same time very clear and easy to understand.
Thank you, my friend!
You're welcome. BTW, have you seen the newly released historical RTS Ancestors Legacy?
Yeah, they kindly sent us early access, but I am yet to play it. Looks great, though.
That's nicie of them. I imagine you have to be really busy right now.
They seem pretty nice - had a short correspondence. :-) Yeah, family life and youtube are hard to juggle, especially when you have a dozen other hobbies. :-)
Sorry, I know it's nitpicking, but 2:30, Rhodian slingers. People from Rhodes are called Rhodians. Rhodesia is the country in southern Africa now known as Zimbabwe
Bufoferrata and Zambia 😉
No, you are correct, it is our mistake.
I suggest a flash correction caption without re-recording it.
RUclips does not allow captions anymore.
Bufoferrata I think when Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia life was far better
Ekdromoi. Sweet. Europa Barbarorum calls to me.
Nice video guys! Cheers!
Thanks for your support! :-) I have tried Europa Barbarorum. One of the most difficult TW campaigns.
Joden Paolo Peroy looks like they used some models from that too, either EB or ancient empires
Your guy’s map animations are just awesome!
Thank you for watching :)
never in history has there been given so much information to so many by so few ... I love you for that
Thank you for watching :)
Excellent video a great documentary.
I like the way you are working with the animation process and how it mixed with TW game storys.
I will catch you on the next one!!! XD
Another job well done! Congratulations again!
Thank you for watching :)
Πολυ καλη δουλεια, very nice job man keep making more videos for Greece
Thank you for watching. We will.
Also, I'd like to tell you that some of your videos are filtering into actual educational systems, which I am sure you know, but I wanted to tell you as to the extent of how good and useful they are, educational, detailed, entertaining, and in brief catering for most audiences. We have a saying, which translates to "that is why the cow is totally sold" - its a complement, used to mean that everyone finds something one likes to consume, be it in this case, educational value, details for history nuts like me, and so on! Be proud of this, and keep it up!
Oh, thank you! We are very proud, and, at the same time, feel the responsibility to be better - more precise, more educational.
Sorry for making an assumption, but is it an Italian saying?
It is Maltese saying, but it may have an Italian counterpart.
Thanks! :-)
I get excited every time I see you guy's upload a new video. Keep up the amazing work!
Thank you :)
Abdul Aziz Amod me too
Your knowledge and illustrations helped me understood more and Please don't stop!
It's always nice to see the progression of Greek warfare throughout the centuries. And this video was really informative. My compliments to those who made this video a reality.
Thank you for all your videos, its very interesting
I look for a video of the Peloponnese war like the serie of the diodochi war?
yay another great upload! Keep it up man!
We will, thank you!
A nice video highlighting greek fighting styles...I like the fact you mention about the famous [but little quoted] Battle of Lechaeum, where peltasts beat Spartan hoplites, as this does reflect the changing tactics of the day. Another point you touched on but didn't expand on, was that Athens when forming the Delian League , IT initially asked for either ships and troops to resist the force that was Persia, or give moneys....like simple human nation , some nations initially gave such needs , but after a fashion , when it was clear the threat was lessened, switched to monies [rather than lose personel for harvest/personal reasons], were-as others just preferred to give monies at the start ...All this money was useful personally for Athens , as the fleets they made & trained for the league, were personally loyal to Athens, and so much later on , when a lot of island greeks , knowing there was little threat from the Persian empire , wanted to leave the league , they couldn't, for fear of reprisal, from the massive Athens fleets , which they had helped pay for [for some of them at least ] :D......these were the fleets who during the Peloponessian wars would provide a lifeline , keeping the flow of grain from the Ukraine, into the port of Athens to keep it alive , even whilst undersiege from Sparta :P
Nice comment on a good video. Have friends that wanted to know if Heavy Shielded Infantry was ever defeated by Peltasts/Javelins/Light Infantry (reference was against Romans). The few lines about Lechaeum at 6:30 were hard to hear, so I turned on Closed Captioning. It's not in English, so the spelling didn't translate well. Found palidinbob's comment that gave me the proper spelling of the battle to see if that was it. It is. Thanks for the reply to the video. It seems that there are good and informative comments are made on the internet.
Please don't leave this channel Devin! I couldn't watch these videos without your voice over the top of them. Keep up the amazing work (:
Devin is not leaving, but this still hurts. :-)
I feel horrible now. I appreciate all the effort that goes into these videos, Devin notwithstanding, thank you for producing great quality content (:
Thank you for watching!
Excellent video documentary. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much, we surely will. :-)
A good quick lesson on the Greeks! Thursday is coming along nicely.
More on Sunday. :-)
Great video very informative and interesting would love more like this. Love your videos keep up good work
There will certainly be more. :-)
Not enough videos on this topic thank you so much.
We'll have more. :-)
A class documentary as always!
Thank you for watching!
Great one again. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! :-)
Epic video, as usual, the graphics are great and the map in the beginning in particular was as far as I can tell, impeccable. "Either with the shield, or on it" - loved that - the symbols upon the shields, were also a nice detail. Wish the spear breaking was a part of Rome 2, yet I still would fear the clash between 2 phalanx walls. A particular point I noted you did not mention is that the peltests not only annoyed and disrupted formations, yet the actual weapon when thrown could hit the more exposed feat and would also wind whomever it hit, particularly if 2 hit a shield. The Romans would later develop the weapon with a lead tip which could pierce shields, rendering them useless and also continue on to the body. Keep it up!
P.S Elder Scrolls VI is a little while off, last I heard......
We will talk about the Roman armies in a subseries soon enough. :-) Regarding the Elder Scrolls, I was making a joke. More of a Pillars of Eternity/Divinity/Neverwinter Nights fan. :-)
great video much love and support
Thank you for your support!
Nice Video, easy to understand and good quality like everytime :)
Thank you, my friend! :-)
Kings and Generals thanks for the work my friend ^^
Great video guys keep it up 👍
Thank you for watching :)
Superb, as usually
Thanks, more on the way!
To take a deep dive on this, read Donald Kagan's brilliant 'The Peloponnesian War.'
Hey baby 😘
Awesome job!I can't wait for the hellenistic armies!!
Working on them :)
You made my breakfast man! Keep up the quality work!
We will, thank you! :-)
Because of your excellent quality work, I also used your sponsor link to the Great Courses Plus and got myself an account and subscription :D
I hope you do some work on the Three Kingdoms period of Ancient China, specifically the Battle of Red Cliffs, in the future.
Happy to hear that! :-) Yes, we have a few videos on China planned.
Awesome man you are always awesome did not waste a single time to click as soon as I saw it on my notification and why you are awesome???????
I don't think I need to explain that anymore
We are always happy to hear the feedback! :-)
Another amazing video, I would love to hear about Eastern Hellenistic warfare some time!
More on the way. :-)
We expect the best ...... and we’re getting it! Keep it up bro.
We will, thank you! :-)
Oh man, I'm so glad I saw the add at the end of this video.
Yeah, GCP is great. :-)
Yep, I just went ahead and bought it.
Woow.... starting the week with a video.. and ending the week with another .. so great you are awsome
Yes, we are trying really hard to be able to release 2 videos a week.
you make want to study History
Kings and Generals how much time it takes to complete 1 video
Depends on the video, 50-100 hours.
Kings and Generals OMG
You ever get a holiday?
you are getting good with each video
Thank you! :-)
can you cover some north african history and batteles
We probably will. Don't know when.
Great job !!! thank for it i learned alot
Glad to hear it!
Simply put : amazing ! :)
Thank you very much!
Great video guys! I've been a big fan for a long amount of time I look forward to more videos
Just a thought, maybe a video on indo-European migration?
Thank you.
Good suggestion. We will look into this.
I really enjoy your history lessons, dude.
More on Sunday. :-)
My favorite series!
More on the way!
I cannot wait for the byzantine armies
We will get there :)
Kings and Generals OH YES
That's a much needed topic.
Eastern Romans are rarely discussed, but their military tactics were often ahead of the rest of Europe, so it should be interesting to see the evolution away from traditional Roman legion tactics, to a focus on heavy calvary(proto-knights).
Or Bulgarian tactics like in battle of Varbitsa pass
@kingsandgenerals I just love your videos. Thank you.
Αs always an other great video combined with Rome 2 total war graphics + History lesson.
Keep up the good work Kings and Generals!
P.S. 1) LIKE before watching the video cause u didnt forget me when i asked about Pelloponessian War before 2 months.
2) Seems u still working mate no week off to finish Thrones of Britannia campaign. :P
Hey, thank you for your trust! :-) I decided to work on the 2nd season of Napoleon instead. :-)
Very interesting good work...
Thank you!
I like these topics and the presentation. :)
There is more on the way! :-)
Also, I find it admirable that, you guys, manage to respond to almost all comments. That is some dedication and good connection with your viewers. :)
We love you guys. Ok, most of you. :-)
Here we go!
Damnit I love this. Thanks fam.
Thank you for watching :)
Very informative video! I watched this because I am planning to pick up the new Assassin's Creed game, which I understand to be set during this time period. I am very curious to see if they depict Greek warfare accurately!
Great Video !
Thank you for watching :)
Nice video.
Thank you, good sir. :-)
1.12 Man, I knew Spartans were good but actually LEVITATING , is a whole new spectrum of possibilities ! :D
Keep up the good work ,
:-) We will.
This is awesome
Great info!
Thanks!
You know, I've always wanted to know more about the greek tactics and armies in the 5th and 4th century BC/BCE
So I thank you for making this video
Thanks for watching!
We want episodes detailing the Peloponnesian War, please
It’s fascinating how each city-state had a military speciality such as archery, slinging, or military horsemanship.
Loved your video, do one about Northern Greek armies
As in Macedonian? We have one video on Philip's reforms.
Sweet, i'm gonna check it out :) Keep the epic work :D
Will do!
K&G very nice job.keep up the good work.Just one thing. The athenian general who won in Sfaktiria 425 BC was Dimosthenis and the spartans surrendered there. General Ifikratis though completely destroyed a spartan mora with his peltasts at the battle of Lechaio, near Corinth, at 390 BC. They fought in different wars.
Thank you!
Loved the video!
One question... what is the name of the game (i think it's a game) that you use ton show the battle segments? Is that Rome 2?
Thanks! Yes.
Nice video 👍
I request the Jugurthine wars
This Sunday we will have a video that has a tiny connection with Jugurthine war. Make sure you don't miss it.
Kings and Generals 99.99% wouldn't know about Jugurthine war I am sure
I know little it was fought around 1 century BC between Roman Republic and Jugurthine of Numidia somewhere in North Africa
Great video as awlays but i would like to point out some mistakes that i came to notice. The battle that you are describing at 6:29 is the battle of lacheum that was fought during the corinthian war and the battle of Sphacteria was fought in 425 BC during the peloponnesian war
Yes, you are right it was during the Corinthian War but we considered it appropriate to mention it in this video since the implementation of peltasts into the Greek armies developed during the Peloponnesian War, and it was also shortly after.
2:00 ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς = Either with the shield or on it
How ironic this video popped up in my recommended feed just as I’m playing Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey considering that the game is set during the Peloponnese War.
We are watching you!
More on Modern Warfare please , I loved that Stalingrad video..
We will. Right now it is a monthly schedule for the modern warfare series as production time is much longer.
I'm here because I'm playing Total War Rome 2 and have little to no idea about Greek faction units and their love of spears, thanks for this video
That intro, never gets old.
We will have a better one, whenever it gets old. :-)
Now i cant wait for the Hellenistic armies. By far my favorite
Soon-ish. :-)
Just visited a collection of armor and weapons of the army of Pyrrus and im hyped hahahaha
There will be quite a few videos on Pyrrhus. :-)
My favorite time era. To me, the Hellenistic and Early-Mid Roman Republican armies had the most diverse and coolest looking armors and formations.
Oh exactly. Early roman republican armies looked amazing. Also the romanised infantry fighting next to phalangites in the Hellenistic kingdoms is showing that it was a transitional period indeed.
Sweet intro!
Thank you!
The previous video has turned private, and ... There is no playlist on the series mentionned, any possibility to got one ?
When there's treacherous neighbors about, Sparta was smart by refusing to fight far from home.
Rhodesian slingers? Don't you mean Rhodian?
I guess, we used the outdated version. Should have been Rhodian.
Great video as always .
Hope for more .
I have a question what if Greeks fought Vikings ,how they will fight ?...☺
Thank you! The Greeks had the numbers most of the Medieval cultures couldn't have achieved. The Vikings would have no chance against them in an open battle, but they were much more mobile than the Greeks, and that mobility would have made it very interesting. To be honest, I am more curious about a possible naval battle between the Greeks and the Vikings.
Kings and Generals
Yeah true .
The Greeks are more strategic in battle .
I hope one day you do a comparison between them about the naval strength and tactics .tnx
Please make more Bronze age/Iron age era battles, like the Assyrian expansion, Neo-Babylonian Empire or ancient Egyptian wars...
You should mention the civil war in Corfu / Corcyra in your " Navies during the Peloponnesian war " series
Was there some cutting involved when talking about the invasion of Melos? Seems like for your point about war becoming more destructive to make sense you should have explained the Melian dialogue and the nasty things that followed.
Fantastic work as usual, More ottoman stuff please.
Working on it. :-)
Hi, I think you guys have a mistake in here, you credit Iphicrates with beating the Spartans at Sphacteria and wiping out a mora with peltasts, but that was in the Corinthian War a few decades later. Iphicrates wasn't even born when the Athenians defeated the Spartans at Sphacteria, and credit for that victory is usually given to Cleon.
I was checking out that battle cuz of my M.A thesis and you upload it like 30 mins later, are u wizard ?
No, but we are watching you. :-)
Woow I'm backing up a little bit.
Congratz for your video. The result is great as usual. I just have something to say about the peltasts and generally speaking, the light infantry. Their use was indeed written by autors like Thucydides but.. the fact cities train their citizens as peltasts is too early here. To make it short, I'm an history student and for my 4th and 5th years, I had to a big research work on the rise of Macedonia. On the ancient books I read, it is clearly shown that peltasts were underused until the first half of the IVth century. Actually, the first battle with proofs of trained peltasts is Leuctra in 371. Anyways sorry for my poor english and keep going with your videos, they are really great to watch!
How about the Battle of Sphakteria in 425 bc? First time that peltasts and other light infantry, managed to overcome and defeat hoplites. We said that this was the moment that other city-states gradualy started using peltasts more widely.
Hey Andreas :) I haven't said that peltasts were unknown for the Greeks, but that they were not trained by cities back then. This training begins far later. Even in Leuctra in 371, those peltasts were mostly mercenaries, not greek citizens. The light infantry way of war slowly appears in Greece, but just read "The western way of war", you will learn that Greeks loved their hoplit wars, and didn't like other ways of making wars. To summarize, greek armies were mostly composed of hoplits until the rise of Thebes.
But I do not disagree with you, I just never came across a universal date that says when city-states started training native peltasts. Every city had it own momentum in warfare developments! We know that Iphicrates's peltasts were definitely Athenian, so if you talk about Athens then you are talking about the early 4th century BC. However the experience of the Pelloponesian War was crucial in the development of the peltast unit and other light infantry. That is one of the main points we wanted to convey.
As for the Battle of Leyctra what I am aware of is that it was a hoplite-centered victory. The theban general Epaminondas defeated the Spartans by using a very very deep hoplite phalanx formation, with many rows.
Thank you for your kind words and sharing of information!
"To summarize, greek armies were mostly composed of hoplits until the rise of Thebes."
I find that statement very problematic, but each to its own!
Andreas Kokkinoftas I know armies were not only composed by hoplits but it was the main kind of troops used for at least 2 centuries. At cheronea again in 338, Philipp II faced a greek army composed of hoplits and some light infantry. My point is just that the use of light infantry like peltasts, or the use of archers, rock throwers during the war of Peloponnese is a consequence of the the number of greek citizens dead in this war : Sparta and Athens didnt have enough soldiers anymore to continue the war so they used mercenaires and not only greeks but other people like thracians with their peltasts. I'm sorry if I made you angry or smth that wasnt my goal. I just wanted to give additionnal informations to you :) keep going on man
Great video, I've read somewhere that the Spartans won the war because of Persian help in developing their navy
The alliances shifted a few times during the Peloponnesian War and Persians were eager to weaken the city-states, in order to secure their Western flank.
This series would take forever
There is no rush :)
Wish to see the battle of himera 480b.C between the Greek city states of magna grecia and carthage. The unknown to many people Sicilian Wars. By the way i want to thank you for your beneficial videos
Good video
Thank you! :-)
It's insane how much history can happen in such a small nook of the world.
This voice is the best keep it
We will!
Kings and Generals poor devin hahahaha
*THIS IS*
*SSSPPPAAARRRTTTAAAA!!!*
It was. :-)
1:14 what made them so special was their ability to fly!
:-)
Something i've seen both in this video and rome total war is that some peltast units are shown to have a hole to the side of their shields, what purpose would that have?
They had a better vision because of that. At the same time, that made the shield lighter - very important when you need to outrun the hoplites. Also, apparently, they used goat hides to cover the shields - and those have a more natural crescent form. Need to use two to cover a round shield.
Make a video about the accounts of the peloponessian war
Hoplite is pronounced " hop - light". just as a future note. Otherwise a very enjoyable video as usual :)
A more interesting period of Greek history, it has all the great Philosophers in it.
Great video!
You must do a roman armies and tactics video.
We will. This series will go on chronologically.
Fantastic
I would also suggest the sengoku jidai japanese armies and the chinese.
Yeah, we have plans to expand in that direction. Let's see how it goes.
Well you are fantastic and make such high quality videos.
Keep up the good work
We will, thank you!
Who is hyped for AC Odyssey?
I am. :-)