I have to agree with you about the Eduard decals. After conducting numerous tests of various methods over the last year, using different surfaces, application methods, removal methods, timings, etc, etc, I have not found a single method that works reliably. There would seem to be some missing factor that I cannot pin down - humidity, variable decal production quality, etc. So I simply don't use the new Eduard decals at all, they are not fit for purpose. I love their kits, but not these decals. To those claiming Eduard never said you can remove the carrier film, this is flat wrong. Eduard described these new decals and the carrier film removal technique in detail in Eduard Info May 2021, pp.52 -61.
Who is this Muppet, with his silly little Ukraine flag?!! 🙄 What a stupid idea using tape. Using tape like this is commonly called “scotch tape test” and it’s used for checking adhesion of paint surfaces. You can also use cuts into the paint with a sharp blade. So why use this technique?!! Not only that, the surface is almost matte, who puts decals on a surface like that? 🙄 What he should be doing is using a ‘bladed’ brush and getting the brush between the carrier film and decal, and slowly ‘chiselling’ the film from the ink of the decal. Use water also. It works a treat and leaves an amazing looking decal without any carrier film. I’m sold on Eduard decals now. Not only are their kits some of the best around, they have this unique decal process that’s perfect for Legends! …not good for muppets though.
There is a major ironic situation here: Eduard are renowned for aftermarket products for other manufacturer's kits, but now have made people to go for other's aftermarket decals for their own kits!
Maybe learn how to properly take the film off. This video was very biased from the start and Peter did not even use the reccommended process used by modellers that can have had success with them.
@@michaelgrey7854 Why would you possibly defend these decals? Even if some may be able to take the film off it still doesn't take away from the fact that these decals are never going to be as good as regular tried and true decals that literally everyone else uses. If these decals were so good then why are Eduard the only ones using them?
These decals are for Legends! Not muppets. I just completed my first Eduard kit using these new decals, and I’m sold. I use to paint most of my markings, now I can add this to my repertoire. Oh, and I usually win at every model competition I enter, including our national event, so I have a good track record for quality kits. You need to have a good surface, not matte like he has here, decal solution and leave for al least 10 hours. Then come back and use a new and totally clean, sharp, flat brush. Get the brush under the decal carefully and chisel the film away from the print on the surface. It works a dream. This idiot is using a nuclear bomb with this technique.
You're doing it wrong. No just kidding. LOL I love your videos and thank you for doing them. thank you for showing us the problem with their decals, that is so aggravating. From across the pond in USA, keep up the good work and have a very nice day, Peter.
Peter , I am a month out from the release of this video ( very informative ) - but I am shocked how bad these Decals are !! - the Japanese Roundels are pretty poor in clarity / printing as well , you are totally correct . I built a few years ago , the old - but brand new at the time New Tool FW 190 A-8 - it was a challenge This model was based on Eduard's FW 190 A8/R2 kit - a superbly detailed kit which is nevertheless a bit hung up on its BMW engine and weapons. It's designed to have everything on show via appropriate panels and an open cowling. I kept the panels closed. It was not too problematic; I just needed to sand the detail off the wing root gun panels. But the fuselage gun cowling was different; The gun tray and bulkhead needed to be eliminated. The overwide fuselage then needed to be braced around the gun cover and carefully super-glued into place. Finally, the instrument bezel had to be secured to something as the gun bulkhead was gone. More scratch building . Once this little procedure had been performed, I was able to proceed with the rest of the build. It was a positive experience, and I was left with a model to be proud of and a feeling of accomplishment. No Eduard Decal Problems as I used an aftermarket set , but it was before this madness ! Eduard have regressed .
They did release a statement, a while back, first stating that the new decals were not meant to be peeled *"Regarding the new decals - they can be recognized by having a production date on them - 23.06.2020 and forward. Its true the coat can be removed once dried, but it requires some skills and experience. We do not suggest to our customers they should or need to do this. The decals can be worked with the same way as before- with the older ones. So using the method of removing the top layer is up to the customer - at their own risk." * but then released a short tutorial showing how it could be done. Here: May 20201 InfoEduard Magazine on their website Vol 20 May 2021. Page 52 ( www.eduard.com/out/media/InfoEduard/archive/2021/info-eduard-2021-05-enrr.pdf )
Great info on Eduard's new decals! Just finishing up an 1/48 Eduard 84175 Spitfire Mk IX weekend Edition. The kit itself is great with lots of detail and great fit. Was really worried how these new decals would go down over a gloss surface of X-22. Used both Micro set and sol and experimented with Solvaset on the bottom wing roundels and let dry overnight. All decals settled down nicely and tried removing the film first with Tamiya tape. The film came away but in areas where the decal did not fully settle, such as seam lines or around bumps on the fuselage the decal came away with it. The decals look painted on when it does work. My thoughts. First of all the new decals, while in register, are not quality printed. Not even close. The colours look blotchy like your Zero one's did. The carrier film is huge if you don't peel it off. If you do decide to peel then it will be a 50/50 chance it may work. Tried peeling on test model with enamel thinners and it ate into the decal. Tried odourless thinners and it would not peel at all. Used a toothpick and tweezers to start the peel and it was painfully slow or would lift the edges of the decal. Then used tape and the film peel fine on most but on others took part of the decal with it. Defiantly a gamble and not worth the extra work or frustration and possibly ruining all your model. So I will not be buying any more Eduard kits until they start supplying quality decals, especially for the price they charge on their profi packs. Love most of their kits but hate the decals.
I know you are a Flory member so I will be posting my pictures on his site in the near future and you can see for yourself, if you wish, how the decals turned out .
Thanks Peter! Great channel!Pulled out the Eduard 2005 original tool Bristol f2b Fighter in 1/48 . Kit # 8126. What a thing of beauty ! Separately bagged, exquisite moulding, nice colour call sheet, great instructions, circular masks and a gorgeous decal sheet! Should be a joy!!👍👍 Certainly no joy with those you were trying!! It's a shame.
Hi Peter thank you for your videos.I was aware of these problems so they are not new to me but it seems to me that using decal solvents on this decals its a mistake. What those products do basically its to melt the carrier film making it to get in to all the rivets and recesses of the surface. That is okay on a normal decal but these decals are reversed so if you use them they wil join the carrier film to the paint of the decal and don`t came out ever. I´m sorry if I´m not making my self understandable. So I will try without any decal solvent to see if the carrier will came out.
I used mild setting solution and found this worked well as getting the decal properly bedded down with no air inbetween seems the most important thing, though a strong setting solution could maybe cause the problem your are talking about.
Good perspective - when I first heard of the concept of these transfers, I could see how the idea had potential, but given the amount of effort involved.. ugh. Thanks for sharing.
It’s simply not good enough, people don’t want or need that sort of complication. If the other manufacturers can manage to include a decent decal sheet then so do they. You have given it a fair go
I’ll be avoiding buying any more Eduard kits until they fix these decals 🤬🤬. Fortunately I have mainly pre 2020 Eduard kits but just bought the Mi-24 Hind 🙁, looks like aftermarket decals to be sourced. Keep up the good work Peter from a fellow Florian.
I had a feeling that that was going to happen, as you've tried several times with bad results, so kudos to you for giving them a fair chance. Why would anyone risk their model with these decals ? Just imagine trying to apply all the stencils to an F-4 Phantom . . . that way madness lies ! I've just used a set of Kits World P-47 decals on my Tamiya model, and they turned out superbly with minimum fuss, so I for one will avoid Eduard decals for sure. Thanks for a very informative video, Peter. you are always entertaining ( And fair ) in your comments, and I love your "Rants "
Well done for having a go. For the new, inexperienced or the modeller that simply doesn't want the faff then these decals can be used traditionally without peeling, as Eduard intended, so there is no need to go aftermarket (unless you want to get away from the poor print quality which is indeed in need of improvement). As far as I know Eduard have never claimed that the decals are peelable, is it fair to haul them over the coals when thats not worked for you, you've not been told by them that it would? I can make the 'peel' work and the results look great. It took a bit of trial and error to get there and I do appreciate its not for everybody since the technique is a little time consuming and in my experience quite specific. I like the results well enough I find it worth the effort. For anyone wanting to try, forget the tape which is likely to lift any decal (Eduard or otherwise) and go with the method that you had that near success with at the end, the only reason that one was damaged was the use of tape at the start.
Eduard did let it be known on social media that the film could be removed, just after all the complaints started...The issue is they don't seem to know what to say or how we are to use them. As for my near success, I think (due to the inconsistencies in the decals) I was just lucky as it seemed to have bedded down better than the others and even had a slightly different appearance when I was applying it off the backing paper. Nobody wants to be hating on Eduard but they need to get their act together and sort this out as it must be hurting them a lot by now...Talk about fixing what 'aint broke! They were just great before!
I recently applied these decals on Eduard Wildcat with no problems in peeling the film. For the small stencils I didn’t bother and the film disappeared under a coat of VMS Satin Varnish.
Phil Flory used them on the same model and had a disaster: It seems to me the quality is extremely inconsistent. This was even evident in my test. But glad you had a good result.
I'm presently doing the Eduard MiG 15 which has the older style decals. It's a profipack kit so you have a number of marking options and you could potentially use the left over decals for another kit. Doesn't look like this is going to happen with these new style decals. In fact you're faced with having to spend money on decals from another manufacturer.
Firstly these decals are NOT designed to have the carrier film removed, it's just that people have discovered that it's possible, so it's unfair to say they have done a bad job if you are using them in a way they aren't designed for. Secondly, your Harrier parts aren't a smooth, gloss, decal-friendly finish, it's rough and almost matt. I wouldn't put any sort of decal on that and expect it to stick.
Utter rubbish. It's not matt, its had a good dose of GX100 on it and is glossier than the camera implies. Also I had no issue with the same paint and top coat with the Kinetic supplied Cartograf decals. See my finished model on the channel which gave NO issues. Lastly it was Eduard themselves that suggested removing the top film in social media posts after the complaints began. Please come out of denial?
But this type of decal is really designed to have the carrier film removed as they are just like HGW decals in which you are instructed to remove the film. Eduard started making these decals but didn't seem to realise this at first, but there instructions are you can removed it or not. Anyway the worst part to me is the print quality.
What a drag. I think the inconsistency of the decals is the main point here. Sometimes they do work, but you'll never know. And that underscores that what Eduard is trying to push as a feature, is actually a bug. I recently built their Zlin-39 and the latest rebox of the MiG-15. The carrier film on most of the Zlin decals peeled off just fine, and I felt all smug about how simple it is and that the naysayers were just unskilled. Then I went and tried the same method on the MiG-15 decals and 90% of those ripped to shreds and came up.
Thanks for trying again the future for me is Eduard sprue trees and after market parts then pick you own after market decals best of both worlds. But as for your rant I don’t think you could have done anything more
@@steveshanks2537 Not sure Steve, but some folks have tried both and say they are better...It's like Eduard saw those & did a cheaper version? Just wish they would address the problem so we can enjoy their kits once again...
You gave it a good try. I will have to proceed with caution with my recent Albatros DV weekend edition. There seems to be an adhesion problem,decals should stand up to kabuki tape regardless of the carrier film issue.
As a side note, a Japanese company called Museum Collection created something they called "High Tech" decals for Formula 1 models around 2001 which had a carrier film that was supposed to be removed. I don't think they stuck with that concept as I've not seen it in a while.
Eduard were quite clear about how these decals were not meant to be peeled. Unfortunately, they also seem to have print quality issues on some judging by those Zero decals. Looking at a couple of kits I have stashed, an BF109E Adlerangriff and a couple of Mig-21MF kits, the print quality looks good, and the decals (used conventionally) should hopefully be fine. perhaps these were the last "normal" decals released before the new ones came in on 23.06.2020. I may try a peel with some spares - but from what I have seen, it is always a bit hit & miss, even when applied to a *gloss* coat.
I have not dealt with them but if experienced modelers are saying they are hammered dog shit then I have to trust them. They looked horrible on your zoomed in closeups. Color looks washed out and blotchy. Way too glossy. They also look very orange peeled and they don't set into the recesses much at all
If you really must use these then i suggest that the modeller soaks them in SEVERAL COATS of setting soloution in the hope that might melt the carrier film away....or go aftermarket.....your only 2 options.
Well at least you gave me a chuckle! 😂 Have you tried Humberol Decalfix? This works great for me at getting Transfers to stick even on matt surfaces that haven't been glossed. I've also used Tamiya X20A thinners with great success. The world loves a trier Peter and you seem to have given it your best shot mate.
I've heard that the heat from nine table lamps will help to lift the carrier film. LOL just kidding. Seriously though, that whole mess is enough to take the fun out of modeling.
The fact that I can see silvering in the carrier makes me wonder how well the decals have adhered...? Perhaps an actually glossy surface? And maybe that would explain the blotchy look of them ...?
The surface is not glossy in my opinion - in most cases it worked for me - on uneven underground (big panellines or other details) they are sometimes brittle and do destroy- eventually your decals are too long in water and have no more enaught adhesive - but i try to avoid to use them in most cases too - i wish they can develop them in the future to perfection because it is time for a solution for "the carrier film question"
It doesn't need to be glossy, it needs to be smooth. It's exactly the same as was done on the Sea Harrier model I decaled with the kit-supplied Cartograf decals which went down perfectly...(see my after build review).
If your GX100 finish shows a sheen rather than a shine then i would say it is not smooth at all. Assuming you have a reasonable coat of clear you can prove this by using a very fine sander/polishing stick which will work it to a mirror (smooth) finish just as you would a clear canopy. Also I think some people soak decals too long which dilutes the adhesive. Just a quick dip in water, dab off the excess and wait for the adhesive to soften enough to allow the decal to slide from the backing.
It can’t surely just be about cost though, can it? I’ve just taken delivery of Special Hobby’s lovely little F-84F Thunderstreak. Their excellent decals are produced in the Czech Republic (possibly by themselves), and at some point Eduard had a tie-in with Special Hobby (Tempest)? So there’s an excellent decal producer, local to Eduard, producing low cost/high quality decals who for some reason they just won’t use. The F-84F was just less than £18 and it’s a respectable sized decal sheet, so what are we talking, £1 - £2 at most on the price of an Eduard kit for some decent decals? I could live with that. Just doesn’t make sense why they’re persisting in going down this road !
I have a few Eduard 1/72 WW2 models,and I will just put decals on and that is it. I will not try to remove this film after seeing this horror. This is the best horror movie of 2023.
Try this, Apply decals in usual manner with micro sol & set. Leave for a good 24 hours to cure. Load a brush with white spirits and apply to the decal making sure to cover right to the edges of the top film and now leave it for about 15 to 20 seconds. Using the same brush, agitate the top and it should start to come away and form gel like lumps that are easy to remove.be carful not to rub too vigorous. I was sceptical about trying this method but it really worked for me. Good luck and if it works for you, pass it on👍
I'm sorry Peter but I think I am going to have to agreeably disagree with you on this one, especially after listening to the original Eduard video a few weeks ago and then these two follow-ups - I will however give my reasons for it and please don't see this as a personal attack because I do see what I think you are trying to convey in the video. I've used these forms of decals three times now: the first two times I was too frightened to peel them off and these were on the "Spitfire Story: The Few" and the "Tora! Tora! Tora!" boxings. My impressions at this point were that the decals were nice and thin, but that the printing left a little to be desired and it was made worse by the fact I think the protective paper was placed on the decal sheet while it was still warm, meaning when you peel it away it was sticking a little and leaving a dappled finish. So, when I tackled the re-box of the Dornier Do17z "Kampftstift" from April 2021, I knew I had to give a shot at peeling them off to make them look nicer on the model. These new decals are a faff, and are something you have to learn to use (which is no different to any other part of our hobby); however, they can be used and aren't completely atrocious. I knew that preparation was the absolute key to using them well - without almost perfect adhesion there was no chance this was going to go well, and to be fair that is the lesson you have learnt from your own test. What did I do? The model had a really good layer of gloss for the decals to work on. I used warm-hot water from a dish that was sitting on a USB mug warmer to help make the decals nice and pliable. I also used Mr Mark Set and Softener as on Eduard's tip sheet on how to use the decals from a few years back they used this, and I think because the Set has an almost watered-down PVA consistency to it it does aid adhesion. So warm decal goes onto a Mr Mark Set surface, and once it is on I give it a firm press with a cotton bud/kitchen towel to get the liquid out and get the warm decal to conform. I left the decal half an hour and then gave it another firm press before applying some Mr Mark Softener, left that for five minutes then gave that another firm press and left to dry. Once dry, I opted to put Micro Sol over the top just to be a bit "belt and braces". I then left 24 hours and then peeled using tweezers and on the larger decals, some tape just to lift it up initially. It worked almost flawlessly, and there were only two decals I got a little ripping on around the panel lines - but considering the size of the stencils and insignia it actually went far better than expected. I put a full post up about this on my build thread on Flory with plenty of pictures to show this. What are the caveats? Firstly, as I initially said, its a faff and the level of preparation I put in was far more than I would normally do. But it is no different to ensuring a good surface for a metal finish, for example, you just take the time you need to make it work properly. Secondly, the ICM Do17z doesn't have rivets - so how well do the decals work on models that have more recessed, raised or lowered? Not sure, but I've seen others do it so I would repeat my method above and would test thoroughly on a similar spare subject first with some unused decals before committing so I can learn the behaviour of it. Thirdly, by using these setting solutions but then removing the film you do get a tide mark which can be quite obvious. Some warm soapy water and then another gloss coat over the top to seal the decals got rid of 90% of the marks, the rest disappears under weathering. My issue with the video is that the language is very absolutist: telling people that the decals are completely unusable and they must get replacements just isn't true and is quite unfair on Eduard I think. I get that they're not everyone's preference and they are harder to use if you are looking for a pristine finish and that is a fair position to take - and I think that was what the video was trying to put across but it lost some nuance/balance as your patience diminished (understandably so, given the results of the test). The preparation of the decal is the foundation to the peeling, and because the video only shows the peeling we don't see what you did in the prep for the video and why the adhesion of the decal was so poor to cause such a catastrophic test. I've not built an Eduard kit any more recent than the Dornier from April 2021 so it would be interesting to see if the decals are working any better now, as two and a half years is a hell of a long time and they are constantly refining their printing. Maybe I will have to get a Weekend kit of something raised and recessed riveted to see what they are like! Anyways, I hope I haven't upset or annoyed you by writing this Peter - I realise you are sick of hearing everyone's methods but this comments section is turning into a bit of an echo chamber, and that can do a lot of reputational damage to a company or product where it isn't quite deserved. I hope any constructive comments written above can be taken in the good faith they have been written in!
Thanks Scott. I did not say “Completely unusable” though did I? Otherwise a very interesting and useful response. Lets hope Eduard get the message and improve or change them though as for most people this faffing simply isn’t worth the time and risk. Cheers buddy. 👍🏻 EDIT: I should also add Scott that you are are a (WAY) above average builder in terms of skill (You completed a beautiful Kinetic Sea Harrier, for God's Sake! That makes you a MASTER JEDI BUILDER!!! 🤣)...but most others would struggle with all this silly messing about. 😳
Say what you want to about Revell, but they at least tend to have good decals... Is this a neat idea? Yeah. Can it potentially work? Yes. Was it a good one and did they execute it well? Well that's another matter... Yeah you can put square wheels on a car but it's not a good idea.
Thank you Peter, glad you gave it another go. I think you’ve now definitely shown that the decals aren’t fit for purpose 😔. I will certainly be avoiding any Eduard kits with these awful decals. Geoff.
you have been more than fair, Eduard need to fix this. Nobody wants to faff about with these terrible decals. No more Eduard kits for me until they fix this.
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab Sorry not to be clear..maybe Tamiya Decal Adhesive might hold the decal down better to peel off the backing..one of the procedures i've seen is to use enamel thinner to help dissolve off the carrier film rather than using Tamiya tape..yes i agree Eduard are falling down big time with the lack on info on those decals..stupid idea in the first place really
Clearly, the idea of removable carrier film above the decal is potentially a good idea, Eduard have clearly released their version too early. You, Peter have tried your best over the 2 videoes, but have obviously encountered fatal flaws. I think that the idea may work in time, but much more research and testing needs to happen before these new style decals are released with a kit. having said that, not many complaints are associated with Cartograf decals, so, surely, make the kits with Cartograf decals and charge the small premium for the kit to include them. At least until the bugs are sorted with these new style decals.
I like the Decals are pre printed, maybe it is the way ahead in model making! Those Decals are such a faff that spoil the model! Imprint it on the model is what I mean?
These just seems to be absolute crap, the whole point of decals is flexibility in application. The surface is just that, a surface to affix those decals. And affixing decals is an hour job at the most. This just seems to be designed to be as frustrating as possible, something that Jigsaw would concoct.
That seems like a recipe for disaster . . .Why make things more complicated than you need to ? Never had problems achieving that "painted on " effect with my decals I Think Eduard need a serious re - think.
Yes, from people determined to prove they can do it against all odds. In a tiny minority. Life is too short to waste this much time on something as simple as decal application. You need to come out of denial, Finlay. By the way, have you now bothered to see on my channel how many nice models I built yet?
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab also forgot to mention by not gluing the wing sparsvin place that attach the outer and inner wings you CAN have it with folding and extended wings.👍👍👍
Mate l think you gave it a good try but even if you had got one of them off and it looked great then every decal would be like playing Russian roulette so if do buy an Eduard kit l'll aftermarket decals 👍
I've seen people apply a solution, maybe IPA, then the film kind of comes away. I've also seen people use blue tack to lift the film although you still have to peel it off and hope...
Yes there has, even though the decals aren't designed to have the carrier removed, Eduard have said in their latest bulletin that the carrier can be removed using a cotton bud with a bit of oil paint thinners, I have also seen people use white spirit.
Masking tape is far too tacky to use on the decal should use something with less tack, something like blue tack that has been detack a bit. Then you can use the blue tack to start lifting the film and then finish it with your tweezers. Also you could have tried some decals without any setting and softening agent as maybe that is making the decal too brittle.
That is why I was reducing the tack in my sleeve. At the end of the day, these decals are just too impractical on many models and not the step forward Eduard hoped for, yet they persist with them when everyone can see they have no future.
In your summing up you say if you’ve made a mistake admit to it. Eduard have never said that the carrier should be removed, the fact it can was a by product of them producing their own decals and their process so why should they admit to something they never intended. You also applied about 6 decals to a finish that was at best satin (it wasn’t but we’ll go with it) which isn’t and never has been the best surface for decal adhesion. With 6 or so decals applied why didn’t you try a few methods instead of sticking with Phil (the gospel apparently) Flory’s frankly suicidal method of scratching with your sharpest tweezers or using tape? Why didn’t you try Brett Green’s method of using turpentine spirit to soften the carrier until it simply lifts off, Eduard also covered this method in Info-Eduard in September. Finally we’ve been buying after market decals for as long as I can remember, it’s a big industry so why wipe off Eduard from your buying spectrum and miss out on brilliant kits for the sake of some decals you’re using or applying incorrectly?
"Why don't you try this, why don't you try that?" Do you realise how crazy this sounds, - like you are in denial? You chose to ignore the examples I showed where the smooth plastic gave the same fail...EDUARD should have issued clear instructions in their kits as to how these were intended to be used, better still they should have developed the product properly to operate in a wider window of circumstances. And it isn't just Mr Flory, I now understand Spencer Pollard, (one of the most skillful modellers I can think of) & Johnathan Mock (who designs decals for a living!) are of the same opinion...I think we can see from your earlier comments, you are something of an Eduard fan...As somebody said earlier, it's ironic that a company with a reputation for great aftermarket products now fail in a way that makes you need to go to aftermarket to replace their awful decals. If you want to pander to this company and waste dozens or more hours doing all this work for their benefit, then that's your choice, but don't critisise me for drawing attention to it.
You keep forgetting that you’re not supposed to peel the carrier …….so don’t, it’s never been anywhere in the instructions to do so, but if you feel the need to use the method that works surely? Do I get a badge for being a fanboy - I hope it’s an Eduard Fighter Bunny! 😂
So Eduard say the carrier film shouldn't be removed..and then show how to supposedly remove it? Utter nonsense from them, a product not fit for sale from a company too arrogant to listen to their customers. Former customers now, as many, many of us no longer buy their kits because of this debacle.
Just like trying to loose the step onto an armour plate Tamiya decal 😁 You did in the notification I was emailed ……. and screen grabbed 😉 If I am a fanboy then I’m also a Tamiya one or an Airfix one or an ICM one too as I’ve equal amounts of all those brands. What I am a fan of is good modelling and if someone is using a bad method why not share some knowledge on a better method, even if it adds an extra evening of work on a 3 month build?
I've yet to build an Eduard kit with these 'new' decals, but they look totally atrocious! They make quality plastic, good engineering (not Tamiya), just pay Cartograph!
I'm not sure why you are having so much difficulty with these. Getting 100% success with these isn't easy , but you seemed to be really struggling. They are not that difficult to use. I think using tape is a bad idea, sometimes you were pulling of some of the the top layer then putting the tape back on to also where the bare decal was and seemed to be suprised that it the pulled the decal off! I just use tweesers, some people use white spirit or similar. Your finish doesn't look smooth enough as I can still see silvering where the clear film is. I still hate the print quality of these decals.
@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab try pulling off the film from a decal while it's still on the sheet with some tweezers, if that doesn't come off cleanly, then there is a problem with your sheet or they have got worse as the last ones I used are a couple of years old.
@@DarrellThompson47Hi Darrell...Following this comment earlier, I have now tried this and the top film comes off with relative ease whilst still on the unused decal sheet. This would enable the bigger decals to be used (I tried this too) but makes it impossible to use the numbers, letters & stencils as they just separate. Also with the top film removed, the blotchy print quality seems even worse! 😳
@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab well at least the film is coming off okay. I guess the adhesive on the decal isn't strong enough. I haven't tried leaving the film on and varnish over them to see if the print quality looks any better.
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! That kind of fiddly picking away at the edge of something small and thin like you're having to do at around the 15:45 mark just gets my teeth on edge. I would not be able to bear it! That is NOT what I'd want to be doing with a model. Even watching you trying it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Yikes. No thanks, Eduard!
This is not a troll message as I like some of your rants BUT I’m a bit confused, the other day you openly admit you don’t really build any models and if you do it might be the odd one, but you have a lot of opinions about models and companies? I don’t get it? Why not make videos about things you do like or enjoy??
That is NOT what I said at all. I said I had not built many THIS year. I have been building models for over 50 years, and enjoy model building kits from quality manufacturers with well designed products.
I must agree with @scottisles9934, i think the video lost some of its narrative as the composure was lost and become frustrated as was clearly evident. There is a method on how to apply the decals and a method of removing them, if not followed it leads to frustration. There is a techinque to make this a successful operation but does take practice and will not be to everyones cup of tea. Ive used these decals with mixed results but by practicing and improving my techinq they are now useable. The results of successful adhesion and removal are that of a nice painted markings. As always its practice practice practice.
I have to agree with you about the Eduard decals. After conducting numerous tests of various methods over the last year, using different surfaces, application methods, removal methods, timings, etc, etc, I have not found a single method that works reliably. There would seem to be some missing factor that I cannot pin down - humidity, variable decal production quality, etc. So I simply don't use the new Eduard decals at all, they are not fit for purpose. I love their kits, but not these decals. To those claiming Eduard never said you can remove the carrier film, this is flat wrong. Eduard described these new decals and the carrier film removal technique in detail in Eduard Info May 2021, pp.52 -61.
Totally agree. I would avoid Eduard models simply for this reason. The sooner they realise it the better.
Who is this Muppet, with his silly little Ukraine flag?!! 🙄
What a stupid idea using tape.
Using tape like this is commonly called “scotch tape test” and it’s used for checking adhesion of paint surfaces. You can also use cuts into the paint with a sharp blade.
So why use this technique?!!
Not only that, the surface is almost matte, who puts decals on a surface like that? 🙄
What he should be doing is using a ‘bladed’ brush and getting the brush between the carrier film and decal, and slowly ‘chiselling’ the film from the ink of the decal. Use water also.
It works a treat and leaves an amazing looking decal without any carrier film.
I’m sold on Eduard decals now.
Not only are their kits some of the best around, they have this unique decal process that’s perfect for Legends!
…not good for muppets though.
There is a major ironic situation here: Eduard are renowned for aftermarket products for other manufacturer's kits, but now have made people to go for other's aftermarket decals for their own kits!
Maybe learn how to properly take the film off. This video was very biased from the start and Peter did not even use the reccommended process used by modellers that can have had success with them.
@@michaelgrey7854 Why would you possibly defend these decals? Even if some may be able to take the film off it still doesn't take away from the fact that these decals are never going to be as good as regular tried and true decals that literally everyone else uses. If these decals were so good then why are Eduard the only ones using them?
These decals are for Legends! Not muppets.
I just completed my first Eduard kit using these new decals, and I’m sold. I use to paint most of my markings, now I can add this to my repertoire.
Oh, and I usually win at every model competition I enter, including our national event, so I have a good track record for quality kits.
You need to have a good surface, not matte like he has here, decal solution and leave for al least 10 hours. Then come back and use a new and totally clean, sharp, flat brush. Get the brush under the decal carefully and chisel the film away from the print on the surface. It works a dream.
This idiot is using a nuclear bomb with this technique.
@@musclecarbear4704 "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
You're doing it wrong. No just kidding. LOL I love your videos and thank you for doing them. thank you for showing us the problem with their decals, that is so aggravating. From across the pond in USA, keep up the good work and have a very nice day, Peter.
Peter , I am a month out from the release of this video ( very informative )
- but I am shocked how bad these Decals are !! - the Japanese Roundels are pretty poor in clarity / printing as well , you are totally correct .
I built a few years ago , the old - but brand new at the time New Tool FW 190 A-8 - it was a challenge
This model was based on Eduard's FW 190 A8/R2 kit - a superbly detailed kit which is nevertheless a bit hung up on its BMW engine and weapons.
It's designed to have everything on show via appropriate panels and an open cowling.
I kept the panels closed. It was not too problematic; I just needed to sand the detail off the wing root gun panels.
But the fuselage gun cowling was different; The gun tray and bulkhead needed to be eliminated. The overwide fuselage then needed to be braced around the gun cover and carefully super-glued into place. Finally, the instrument bezel had to be secured to something as the gun bulkhead was gone.
More scratch building .
Once this little procedure had been performed, I was able to proceed with the rest of the build.
It was a positive experience, and I was left with a model to be proud of and a feeling of accomplishment.
No Eduard Decal Problems as I used an aftermarket set , but it was before this madness !
Eduard have regressed .
I agree, and hope I won't have such issues on the old Eduard Fw-190 A4 when I come to build it...though it has at least got the older (good) decals.
I think Eduard owes their modeling public a video explicitly showing their method for success with these decals.
Before their sales collapse.
They did release a statement, a while back, first stating that the new decals were not meant to be peeled *"Regarding the new decals - they can be recognized by having a production date on them - 23.06.2020 and forward.
Its true the coat can be removed once dried, but it requires some skills and experience. We do not suggest to our customers they should or need to do this. The decals can be worked with the same way as before- with the older ones.
So using the method of removing the top layer is up to the customer - at their own risk." *
but then released a short tutorial showing how it could be done. Here: May 20201 InfoEduard Magazine on their website Vol 20 May 2021. Page 52
( www.eduard.com/out/media/InfoEduard/archive/2021/info-eduard-2021-05-enrr.pdf )
Great info on Eduard's new decals! Just finishing up an 1/48 Eduard 84175 Spitfire Mk IX weekend Edition. The kit itself is great with lots of detail and great fit. Was really worried how these new decals would go down over a gloss surface of X-22. Used both Micro set and sol and experimented with Solvaset on the bottom wing roundels and let dry overnight. All decals settled down nicely and tried removing the film first with Tamiya tape. The film came away but in areas where the decal did not fully settle, such as seam lines or around bumps on the fuselage the decal came away with it. The decals look painted on when it does work.
My thoughts. First of all the new decals, while in register, are not quality printed. Not even close. The colours look blotchy like your Zero one's did. The carrier film is huge if you don't peel it off. If you do decide to peel then it will be a 50/50 chance it may work. Tried peeling on test model with enamel thinners and it ate into the decal. Tried odourless thinners and it would not peel at all. Used a toothpick and tweezers to start the peel and it was painfully slow or would lift the edges of the decal. Then used tape and the film peel fine on most but on others took part of the decal with it. Defiantly a gamble and not worth the extra work or frustration and possibly ruining all your model.
So I will not be buying any more Eduard kits until they start supplying quality decals, especially for the price they charge on their profi packs. Love most of their kits but hate the decals.
Very interesting indeed. 👍🏻
I know you are a Flory member so I will be posting my pictures on his site in the near future and you can see for yourself, if you wish, how the decals turned out .
Thanks Peter! Great channel!Pulled out the Eduard 2005 original tool Bristol f2b Fighter in 1/48 . Kit # 8126. What a thing of beauty ! Separately bagged, exquisite moulding, nice colour call sheet, great instructions, circular masks and a gorgeous decal sheet! Should be a joy!!👍👍
Certainly no joy with those you were trying!! It's a shame.
Hi Peter thank you for your videos.I was aware of these problems so they are not new to me but it seems to me that using decal solvents on this decals its a mistake. What those products do basically its to melt the carrier film making it to get in to all the rivets and recesses of the surface. That is okay on a normal decal but these decals are reversed so if you use them they wil join the carrier film to the paint of the decal and don`t came out ever. I´m sorry if I´m not making my self understandable. So I will try without any decal solvent to see if the carrier will came out.
I used mild setting solution and found this worked well as getting the decal properly bedded down with no air inbetween seems the most important thing, though a strong setting solution could maybe cause the problem your are talking about.
Good perspective - when I first heard of the concept of these transfers, I could see how the idea had potential, but given the amount of effort involved.. ugh. Thanks for sharing.
I'll stick to using half a potato dipped in paint to decorate my Eduard models. After all it'll give better results than their decals.
It’s simply not good enough, people don’t want or need that sort of complication. If the other manufacturers can manage to include a decent decal sheet then so do they. You have given it a fair go
I’ll be avoiding buying any more Eduard kits until they fix these decals 🤬🤬. Fortunately I have mainly pre 2020 Eduard kits but just bought the Mi-24 Hind 🙁, looks like aftermarket decals to be sourced.
Keep up the good work Peter from a fellow Florian.
Thanks Paul! 👍🏻
Peter I consider you a Secret Service Agent in the service of modeling. You took a bullet for all modelers. Pleas have a drink to calm down!
Thanks Joe! 😆
No no, thank you for doing this, I would have bought an Eduard kit and lost my mind(more so!).@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab
@@joeschenk8400 The name's Bond...James Bond 007! 😂
Can I expect a plethora of Bond Girls???🤣@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab
@@joeschenk8400 Oh, Pusshy...shtopp! 😂
You've certainly given these decals a good chance Peter.
Much, much too frustrating.
I had a feeling that that was going to happen, as you've tried several times with bad results, so kudos to you for giving them a fair chance. Why would anyone risk their model with these decals ? Just imagine trying to apply all the stencils to an F-4 Phantom . . . that way madness lies ! I've just used a set of Kits World P-47 decals on my Tamiya model, and they turned out superbly with minimum fuss, so I for one will avoid Eduard decals for sure. Thanks for a very informative video, Peter. you are always entertaining ( And fair ) in your comments, and I love your "Rants "
Thank you...I did try my best...I had to buy replacements from Techmod...am building the kit not...stay tuned for updates. ☺️
Very enjoyable, thanks.
Well done for having a go.
For the new, inexperienced or the modeller that simply doesn't want the faff then these decals can be used traditionally without peeling, as Eduard intended, so there is no need to go aftermarket (unless you want to get away from the poor print quality which is indeed in need of improvement).
As far as I know Eduard have never claimed that the decals are peelable, is it fair to haul them over the coals when thats not worked for you, you've not been told by them that it would?
I can make the 'peel' work and the results look great. It took a bit of trial and error to get there and I do appreciate its not for everybody since the technique is a little time consuming and in my experience quite specific. I like the results well enough I find it worth the effort.
For anyone wanting to try, forget the tape which is likely to lift any decal (Eduard or otherwise) and go with the method that you had that near success with at the end, the only reason that one was damaged was the use of tape at the start.
Eduard did let it be known on social media that the film could be removed, just after all the complaints started...The issue is they don't seem to know what to say or how we are to use them. As for my near success, I think (due to the inconsistencies in the decals) I was just lucky as it seemed to have bedded down better than the others and even had a slightly different appearance when I was applying it off the backing paper. Nobody wants to be hating on Eduard but they need to get their act together and sort this out as it must be hurting them a lot by now...Talk about fixing what 'aint broke! They were just great before!
I recently applied these decals on Eduard Wildcat with no problems in peeling the film. For the small stencils I didn’t bother and the film disappeared under a coat of VMS Satin Varnish.
Phil Flory used them on the same model and had a disaster: It seems to me the quality is extremely inconsistent. This was even evident in my test. But glad you had a good result.
I still don’t like these decals. Too much unnecessary work and praying all along that one doesn’t screw up.
I'm presently doing the Eduard MiG 15 which has the older style decals. It's a profipack kit so you have a number of marking options and you could potentially use the left over decals for another kit. Doesn't look like this is going to happen with these new style decals. In fact you're faced with having to spend money on decals from another manufacturer.
I think a competitor must have infiltrated the firm and suggested this decal design 🤣
Firstly these decals are NOT designed to have the carrier film removed, it's just that people have discovered that it's possible, so it's unfair to say they have done a bad job if you are using them in a way they aren't designed for.
Secondly, your Harrier parts aren't a smooth, gloss, decal-friendly finish, it's rough and almost matt. I wouldn't put any sort of decal on that and expect it to stick.
Utter rubbish. It's not matt, its had a good dose of GX100 on it and is glossier than the camera implies. Also I had no issue with the same paint and top coat with the Kinetic supplied Cartograf decals. See my finished model on the channel which gave NO issues. Lastly it was Eduard themselves that suggested removing the top film in social media posts after the complaints began. Please come out of denial?
But this type of decal is really designed to have the carrier film removed as they are just like HGW decals in which you are instructed to remove the film. Eduard started making these decals but didn't seem to realise this at first, but there instructions are you can removed it or not. Anyway the worst part to me is the print quality.
What a drag. I think the inconsistency of the decals is the main point here. Sometimes they do work, but you'll never know. And that underscores that what Eduard is trying to push as a feature, is actually a bug. I recently built their Zlin-39 and the latest rebox of the MiG-15. The carrier film on most of the Zlin decals peeled off just fine, and I felt all smug about how simple it is and that the naysayers were just unskilled. Then I went and tried the same method on the MiG-15 decals and 90% of those ripped to shreds and came up.
Thanks for trying again the future for me is Eduard sprue trees and after market parts then pick you own after market decals best of both worlds. But as for your rant I don’t think you could have done anything more
Thanks Stephen. Come on Eduard! Sort it out! 😡
Yea I'm the same as you Peter I'll not be getting anymore kits from them until they sort it
HGW wet transfers are the best compromise between decals and paint masks. They work well and look great.
Good to know!
I was wondering how the HGW wet transfers might compare
@@steveshanks2537 Not sure Steve, but some folks have tried both and say they are better...It's like Eduard saw those & did a cheaper version? Just wish they would address the problem so we can enjoy their kits once again...
Good luck mate, since their new decals I've never bought another Eduard kit, I'm really gutted about that because I love their kits, just my opinion.
I'd buy overtrees if I could get them at a reasonable price.
Your loss then.
You gave it a good try. I will have to proceed with caution with my recent Albatros DV weekend edition. There seems to be an adhesion problem,decals should stand up to kabuki tape regardless of the carrier film issue.
As a side note, a Japanese company called Museum Collection created something they called "High Tech" decals for Formula 1 models around 2001 which had a carrier film that was supposed to be removed. I don't think they stuck with that concept as I've not seen it in a while.
I've got a nice glass of red on standby.
Eduard were quite clear about how these decals were not meant to be peeled. Unfortunately, they also seem to have print quality issues on some judging by those Zero decals. Looking at a couple of kits I have stashed, an BF109E Adlerangriff and a couple of Mig-21MF kits, the print quality looks good, and the decals (used conventionally) should hopefully be fine. perhaps these were the last "normal" decals released before the new ones came in on 23.06.2020. I may try a peel with some spares - but from what I have seen, it is always a bit hit & miss, even when applied to a *gloss* coat.
It wouldn't be so bad then if the film wasn't so overly-large...
Yet they still gave instructions on how to remove it!
@@DarrellThompson47 Yes - but with the proviso that this was not recommended. See my later post with a link to the aforementioned instructions.
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab I'm still not sure whether the 2 kits I mentioned have the old or new decal types.
@@memkiii if you are not sure it might well be the older (good) type, new ones easy to spot by excessive ‘halo’ of uneven top film around decal.
I have not dealt with them but if experienced modelers are saying they are hammered dog shit then I have to trust them. They looked horrible on your zoomed in closeups. Color looks washed out and blotchy. Way too glossy. They also look very orange peeled and they don't set into the recesses much at all
I can feel your frustration, I think I will give this model manufacturer a miss.
Well, that sorts it. Next Eduard kit I buy will be an overtree sale. I'll source the decals later. This is too much of a pain.
If you really must use these then i suggest that the modeller soaks them in SEVERAL COATS of setting soloution in the hope that might melt the carrier film away....or go aftermarket.....your only 2 options.
Well at least you gave me a chuckle! 😂 Have you tried Humberol Decalfix? This works great for me at getting Transfers to stick even on matt surfaces that haven't been glossed. I've also used Tamiya X20A thinners with great success. The world loves a trier Peter and you seem to have given it your best shot mate.
I've heard that the heat from nine table lamps will help to lift the carrier film. LOL just kidding. Seriously though, that whole mess is enough to take the fun out of modeling.
The fact that I can see silvering in the carrier makes me wonder how well the decals have adhered...? Perhaps an actually glossy surface? And maybe that would explain the blotchy look of them ...?
No they are blotchy-looking and silvery on the paper even prior to use.
The surface is not glossy in my opinion - in most cases it worked for me - on uneven underground (big panellines or other details) they are sometimes brittle and do destroy- eventually your decals are too long in water and have no more enaught adhesive - but i try to avoid to use them in most cases too - i wish they can develop them in the future to perfection because it is time for a solution for "the carrier film question"
It doesn't need to be glossy, it needs to be smooth. It's exactly the same as was done on the Sea Harrier model I decaled with the kit-supplied Cartograf decals which went down perfectly...(see my after build review).
If your GX100 finish shows a sheen rather than a shine then i would say it is not smooth at all. Assuming you have a reasonable coat of clear you can prove this by using a very fine sander/polishing stick which will work it to a mirror (smooth) finish just as you would a clear canopy. Also I think some people soak decals too long which dilutes the adhesive. Just a quick dip in water, dab off the excess and wait for the adhesive to soften enough to allow the decal to slide from the backing.
@@wordenb1830 I refer you to my previous answer.
It can’t surely just be about cost though, can it?
I’ve just taken delivery of Special Hobby’s lovely little F-84F Thunderstreak. Their excellent decals are produced in the Czech Republic (possibly by themselves), and at some point Eduard had a tie-in with Special Hobby (Tempest)?
So there’s an excellent decal producer, local to Eduard, producing low cost/high quality decals who for some reason they just won’t use.
The F-84F was just less than £18 and it’s a respectable sized decal sheet, so what are we talking, £1 - £2 at most on the price of an Eduard kit for some decent decals? I could live with that.
Just doesn’t make sense why they’re persisting in going down this road !
No indeed, and they have HGW just down the road too!
Hi Pete have a drink you deserve it 😀
Just A drink?....peter deserves more than just 1.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don't you just hate it when that happens, but I think it could be wear and tear from battle?
I have a few Eduard 1/72 WW2 models,and I will just put decals on and that is it. I will not try to remove this film after seeing this horror. This is the best horror movie of 2023.
🤣
Try this, Apply decals in usual manner with micro sol & set. Leave for a good 24 hours to cure. Load a brush with white spirits and apply to the decal making sure to cover right to the edges of the top film and now leave it for about 15 to 20 seconds. Using the same brush, agitate the top and it should start to come away and form gel like lumps that are easy to remove.be carful not to rub too vigorous. I was sceptical about trying this method but it really worked for me. Good luck and if it works for you, pass it on👍
Thanks for the tip...but ALL this, just to apply some decals just to suit Eduard? No thanks.
I'm sorry Peter but I think I am going to have to agreeably disagree with you on this one, especially after listening to the original Eduard video a few weeks ago and then these two follow-ups - I will however give my reasons for it and please don't see this as a personal attack because I do see what I think you are trying to convey in the video.
I've used these forms of decals three times now: the first two times I was too frightened to peel them off and these were on the "Spitfire Story: The Few" and the "Tora! Tora! Tora!" boxings. My impressions at this point were that the decals were nice and thin, but that the printing left a little to be desired and it was made worse by the fact I think the protective paper was placed on the decal sheet while it was still warm, meaning when you peel it away it was sticking a little and leaving a dappled finish. So, when I tackled the re-box of the Dornier Do17z "Kampftstift" from April 2021, I knew I had to give a shot at peeling them off to make them look nicer on the model.
These new decals are a faff, and are something you have to learn to use (which is no different to any other part of our hobby); however, they can be used and aren't completely atrocious. I knew that preparation was the absolute key to using them well - without almost perfect adhesion there was no chance this was going to go well, and to be fair that is the lesson you have learnt from your own test.
What did I do? The model had a really good layer of gloss for the decals to work on. I used warm-hot water from a dish that was sitting on a USB mug warmer to help make the decals nice and pliable. I also used Mr Mark Set and Softener as on Eduard's tip sheet on how to use the decals from a few years back they used this, and I think because the Set has an almost watered-down PVA consistency to it it does aid adhesion. So warm decal goes onto a Mr Mark Set surface, and once it is on I give it a firm press with a cotton bud/kitchen towel to get the liquid out and get the warm decal to conform. I left the decal half an hour and then gave it another firm press before applying some Mr Mark Softener, left that for five minutes then gave that another firm press and left to dry. Once dry, I opted to put Micro Sol over the top just to be a bit "belt and braces".
I then left 24 hours and then peeled using tweezers and on the larger decals, some tape just to lift it up initially. It worked almost flawlessly, and there were only two decals I got a little ripping on around the panel lines - but considering the size of the stencils and insignia it actually went far better than expected. I put a full post up about this on my build thread on Flory with plenty of pictures to show this.
What are the caveats? Firstly, as I initially said, its a faff and the level of preparation I put in was far more than I would normally do. But it is no different to ensuring a good surface for a metal finish, for example, you just take the time you need to make it work properly. Secondly, the ICM Do17z doesn't have rivets - so how well do the decals work on models that have more recessed, raised or lowered? Not sure, but I've seen others do it so I would repeat my method above and would test thoroughly on a similar spare subject first with some unused decals before committing so I can learn the behaviour of it. Thirdly, by using these setting solutions but then removing the film you do get a tide mark which can be quite obvious. Some warm soapy water and then another gloss coat over the top to seal the decals got rid of 90% of the marks, the rest disappears under weathering.
My issue with the video is that the language is very absolutist: telling people that the decals are completely unusable and they must get replacements just isn't true and is quite unfair on Eduard I think. I get that they're not everyone's preference and they are harder to use if you are looking for a pristine finish and that is a fair position to take - and I think that was what the video was trying to put across but it lost some nuance/balance as your patience diminished (understandably so, given the results of the test). The preparation of the decal is the foundation to the peeling, and because the video only shows the peeling we don't see what you did in the prep for the video and why the adhesion of the decal was so poor to cause such a catastrophic test.
I've not built an Eduard kit any more recent than the Dornier from April 2021 so it would be interesting to see if the decals are working any better now, as two and a half years is a hell of a long time and they are constantly refining their printing. Maybe I will have to get a Weekend kit of something raised and recessed riveted to see what they are like!
Anyways, I hope I haven't upset or annoyed you by writing this Peter - I realise you are sick of hearing everyone's methods but this comments section is turning into a bit of an echo chamber, and that can do a lot of reputational damage to a company or product where it isn't quite deserved. I hope any constructive comments written above can be taken in the good faith they have been written in!
Thanks Scott. I did not say “Completely unusable” though did I? Otherwise a very interesting and useful response. Lets hope Eduard get the message and improve or change them though as for most people this faffing simply isn’t worth the time and risk. Cheers buddy. 👍🏻 EDIT: I should also add Scott that you are are a (WAY) above average builder in terms of skill (You completed a beautiful Kinetic Sea Harrier, for God's Sake! That makes you a MASTER JEDI BUILDER!!! 🤣)...but most others would struggle with all this silly messing about. 😳
I have had better decals out of 1980s airfix and later smer more adhesion and I can justify the layer of plastic wrap over the top
Re watching this video today after purchasing the new p-51b Duel cobo set. I regret to inform that they are still the same decals. God help me.
A Big 10 mate
Hopefully Eduard don't come out with an F-4 Phantom II any time soon, the underside woud be an unholy mess with this decal type!
I have Eduards full stencil set for my Tamiya F-4B i'm looking forward to it
Say what you want to about Revell, but they at least tend to have good decals...
Is this a neat idea? Yeah.
Can it potentially work? Yes.
Was it a good one and did they execute it well? Well that's another matter...
Yeah you can put square wheels on a car but it's not a good idea.
That is fair comment. 👍🏻
Thank you Peter, glad you gave it another go. I think you’ve now definitely shown that the decals aren’t fit for purpose 😔. I will certainly be avoiding any Eduard kits with these awful decals. Geoff.
Thanks 👍 Lets hope they now listen and revert to Cartograph as before, or get the product sorted.
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Labhi Peter...do you plan on doing a rant video about Frog kits?.....off hand do you know what they are generally like?
@@jaws666 Am only ranting on current manufacturers
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab ah i see.👍👍
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab have you built a FROG kit peter?
you have been more than fair, Eduard need to fix this. Nobody wants to faff about with these terrible decals. No more Eduard kits for me until they fix this.
Buy over trees from Eduard and aftermarket decals best of both worlds
Sod that...!!. Don't need the grief. I will not waste my hard earned on rubbish like that.
Tamiya Decal Adhesive??? i was under the impression you used enamel thinner and cotton bud which dissolved it and then wiped it off???
Sorry, what do you mean? Eduard do not give clear info on HOW they are supposed to be used in the kit...
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab Sorry not to be clear..maybe Tamiya Decal Adhesive might hold the decal down better to peel off the backing..one of the procedures i've seen is to use enamel thinner to help dissolve off the carrier film rather than using Tamiya tape..yes i agree Eduard are falling down big time with the lack on info on those decals..stupid idea in the first place really
@@lesgl Oh, I see. 👍🏻
Clearly, the idea of removable carrier film above the decal is potentially a good idea, Eduard have clearly released their version too early. You, Peter have tried your best over the 2 videoes, but have obviously encountered fatal flaws. I think that the idea may work in time, but much more research and testing needs to happen before these new style decals are released with a kit. having said that, not many complaints are associated with Cartograf decals, so, surely, make the kits with Cartograf decals and charge the small premium for the kit to include them. At least until the bugs are sorted with these new style decals.
I like the Decals are pre printed, maybe it is the way ahead in model making! Those Decals are such a faff that spoil the model! Imprint it on the model is what I mean?
These just seems to be absolute crap, the whole point of decals is flexibility in application. The surface is just that, a surface to affix those decals. And affixing decals is an hour job at the most. This just seems to be designed to be as frustrating as possible, something that Jigsaw would concoct.
Hello Peter why dont you ask Eduart for a RUclips tutorial of how to apply these decals?
Let them show it !.
Why don't Eduard just include that info in the kit instructions?
Yes, Peter I have looked at you splendid models. I am not in denial, just "Flabbergasted" by the amount of poor information we are subject to.
That seems like a recipe for disaster . . .Why make things more complicated than you need to ? Never had problems achieving that "painted on " effect with my decals I Think Eduard need a serious re - think.
Thank you Peter for you effort and patience, but you will no doubt have seen videos claiming success with the technique?
Yes, from people determined to prove they can do it against all odds. In a tiny minority. Life is too short to waste this much time on something as simple as decal application. You need to come out of denial, Finlay. By the way, have you now bothered to see on my channel how many nice models I built yet?
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab just need to put the undercarrage doors and decals on and thatsvmy Matchbox prowler done.
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab also forgot to mention by not gluing the wing sparsvin place that attach the outer and inner wings you CAN have it with folding and extended wings.👍👍👍
Mate l think you gave it a good try but even if you had got one of them off and it looked great then every decal would be like playing Russian roulette so if do buy an Eduard kit l'll aftermarket decals 👍
There seem to be people who get a good result. But with other kits there are no issues at. So I will keep avoiding buying new Eduard kits.
Yes, but every planet needs to be aligned, wind blowing in right direction, but it's still a huge challenge and very frustrating & time-consuming.
I've seen people apply a solution, maybe IPA, then the film kind of comes away. I've also seen people use blue tack to lift the film although you still have to peel it off and hope...
Has there been any official response from Eduard regarding all this and what they are going to do? They must be losing money because of this.
Nothing I know of, except to deny there is a problem. They even told people nothing had changed, so something internally must be wrong!
Maybe they invested a lot of money in the machines to make these decals and they don’t want to pay more to change things
@@qwerk707 That's probably it. Boy is it backfiring!😖
Yes there has, even though the decals aren't designed to have the carrier removed, Eduard have said in their latest bulletin that the carrier can be removed using a cotton bud with a bit of oil paint thinners, I have also seen people use white spirit.
@@jeremywitt1940 Why don’t they just admit they were wrong and go back to Cartograf decals
You don't want to be doing that with every decal, it's ridiculous.
Masking tape is far too tacky to use on the decal should use something with less tack, something like blue tack that has been detack a bit. Then you can use the blue tack to start lifting the film and then finish it with your tweezers. Also you could have tried some decals without any setting and softening agent as maybe that is making the decal too brittle.
That is why I was reducing the tack in my sleeve. At the end of the day, these decals are just too impractical on many models and not the step forward Eduard hoped for, yet they persist with them when everyone can see they have no future.
I’ll stay way away from Eduard until they fix this mess
I think this statement sums the situation up. Ditto.
Good god, what a momental waste of time those decals are.
In your summing up you say if you’ve made a mistake admit to it. Eduard have never said that the carrier should be removed, the fact it can was a by product of them producing their own decals and their process so why should they admit to something they never intended. You also applied about 6 decals to a finish that was at best satin (it wasn’t but we’ll go with it) which isn’t and never has been the best surface for decal adhesion. With 6 or so decals applied why didn’t you try a few methods instead of sticking with Phil (the gospel apparently) Flory’s frankly suicidal method of scratching with your sharpest tweezers or using tape? Why didn’t you try Brett Green’s method of using turpentine spirit to soften the carrier until it simply lifts off, Eduard also covered this method in Info-Eduard in September. Finally we’ve been buying after market decals for as long as I can remember, it’s a big industry so why wipe off Eduard from your buying spectrum and miss out on brilliant kits for the sake of some decals you’re using or applying incorrectly?
"Why don't you try this, why don't you try that?" Do you realise how crazy this sounds, - like you are in denial? You chose to ignore the examples I showed where the smooth plastic gave the same fail...EDUARD should have issued clear instructions in their kits as to how these were intended to be used, better still they should have developed the product properly to operate in a wider window of circumstances. And it isn't just Mr Flory, I now understand Spencer Pollard, (one of the most skillful modellers I can think of) & Johnathan Mock (who designs decals for a living!) are of the same opinion...I think we can see from your earlier comments, you are something of an Eduard fan...As somebody said earlier, it's ironic that a company with a reputation for great aftermarket products now fail in a way that makes you need to go to aftermarket to replace their awful decals. If you want to pander to this company and waste dozens or more hours doing all this work for their benefit, then that's your choice, but don't critisise me for drawing attention to it.
You keep forgetting that you’re not supposed to peel the carrier …….so don’t, it’s never been anywhere in the instructions to do so, but if you feel the need to use the method that works surely?
Do I get a badge for being a fanboy - I hope it’s an Eduard Fighter Bunny! 😂
@@72twinkSO: You end up having to disguise that hiddeous uneven film? Oooof! Also...I didn't use that term...but yes you can have the badge! 😂
So Eduard say the carrier film shouldn't be removed..and then show how to supposedly remove it? Utter nonsense from them, a product not fit for sale from a company too arrogant to listen to their customers. Former customers now, as many, many of us no longer buy their kits because of this debacle.
Just like trying to loose the step onto an armour plate Tamiya decal 😁
You did in the notification I was emailed ……. and screen grabbed 😉
If I am a fanboy then I’m also a Tamiya one or an Airfix one or an ICM one too as I’ve equal amounts of all those brands. What I am a fan of is good modelling and if someone is using a bad method why not share some knowledge on a better method, even if it adds an extra evening of work on a 3 month build?
I've yet to build an Eduard kit with these 'new' decals, but they look totally atrocious! They make quality plastic, good engineering (not Tamiya), just pay Cartograph!
I'm not sure why you are having so much difficulty with these. Getting 100% success with these isn't easy , but you seemed to be really struggling. They are not that difficult to use. I think using tape is a bad idea, sometimes you were pulling of some of the the top layer then putting the tape back on to also where the bare decal was and seemed to be suprised that it the pulled the decal off! I just use tweesers, some people use white spirit or similar. Your finish doesn't look smooth enough as I can still see silvering where the clear film is. I still hate the print quality of these decals.
But it performed just as bad on the smooth plastic. They are crap, pure and simple.
@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab try pulling off the film from a decal while it's still on the sheet with some tweezers, if that doesn't come off cleanly, then there is a problem with your sheet or they have got worse as the last ones I used are a couple of years old.
@@DarrellThompson47 That will be interesting to try, though these are from late 2021.
@@DarrellThompson47Hi Darrell...Following this comment earlier, I have now tried this and the top film comes off with relative ease whilst still on the unused decal sheet. This would enable the bigger decals to be used (I tried this too) but makes it impossible to use the numbers, letters & stencils as they just separate. Also with the top film removed, the blotchy print quality seems even worse! 😳
@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab well at least the film is coming off okay. I guess the adhesive on the decal isn't strong enough. I haven't tried leaving the film on and varnish over them to see if the print quality looks any better.
The decal concept is just SH with one T.............
I buy Eduard overtrees, then go elsewhere for my decals.
That is actually a good solution. 👍🏻
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! That kind of fiddly picking away at the edge of something small and thin like you're having to do at around the 15:45 mark just gets my teeth on edge. I would not be able to bear it! That is NOT what I'd want to be doing with a model. Even watching you trying it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Yikes. No thanks, Eduard!
18:01 OMG you're trying another one! I can't watch! *shudder*
I've had better results with Matchbox decals over 40 years old.
Who uses tape?????? Scalpel and tweezers.
This is not a troll message as I like some of your rants BUT I’m a bit confused, the other day you openly admit you don’t really build any models and if you do it might be the odd one, but you have a lot of opinions about models and companies? I don’t get it? Why not make videos about things you do like or enjoy??
That is NOT what I said at all. I said I had not built many THIS year. I have been building models for over 50 years, and enjoy model building kits from quality manufacturers with well designed products.
@@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab ok I miss understood no problem makes sense now
I must agree with @scottisles9934, i think the video lost some of its narrative as the composure was lost and become frustrated as was clearly evident. There is a method on how to apply the decals and a method of removing them, if not followed it leads to frustration. There is a techinque to make this a successful operation but does take practice and will not be to everyones cup of tea. Ive used these decals with mixed results but by practicing and improving my techinq they are now useable. The results of successful adhesion and removal are that of a nice painted markings. As always its practice practice practice.
1) Not user friendy 2) Time - eating. What's the benefit?
@Peter-Oxley-Modelling-Lab the look, but it's not for all, especially beginners, but for the modeller wanting the pained look, the decals do work.