The Fascinating Aerodynamics of Bike Touring and Bikepacking
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- Let's take a look at some interesting aero findings in the touring and bikepacking space, to understand how some small changes might allow us to travel further with less effort.
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It’s good to be back with some tech content! ⚡️ So, why aren’t I aero-optimised when I travel? Well, my average speed is usually
Great info! As I was watching the video, I immediately wanted to ask you the questions about your setup as it violates almost all of the rules of aerodynamics and drag. But you already pre-answered them in this comment! There should also be a "happiness" coefficient taken into consideration! lol.
I'm really looking forward to the time I can next apply these aero principles. It's not conducive to my cross-continental trips, but will be handy when I'm on lots of shorter/faster adventures in Australia next year.
Speed isn't everything but it really depends on where you tour. In Australia surely you need to move fast to cover the long distances. In Europe, if you move too fast you will likely bypass beautiful villages. I forcefully learned the joys of slow touring when I took my wife along, waking up late, long meals and detours to all interesting sites made for the best tour ever. The idea is not to cover as much distance as possible but cover as little as possible without being bored and for that any bag setup will do.
Yes thanks for quantifying your set up- Ill be on mostly road 15-20 mph so some of this some of that....
@@Cyclingabout Alee always in the back of the mind thinking about speed. A natural racer!
I knew something good would come from me cycling so slowly- air resistance is a minor problem. Result!
Heh. Nice.
It's called "efficiency"
Lol work slower not harder.
i doubt i do ten mile n hour fat n slow i go lol
Yup, "spin, don't push" is the way to go.
Generally I'm not a frequent tourer/bike packer, but in December I did a 2 week trip with only a saddle bag for gear, and was pretty happy with the overall performance and speed. Enjoyed the video.
Your videos this one and others are incredibly well done, you address the subjects with data, facts, and studies. Thank you for your comprehensive and informative videos. Please keep making them. Cheers!
Thank you for another rigurous and nerdy video ;). I love this content!
Thank you for making this video, very informative.
First time i'm watching one of your vids, and I'm so pleased that you didn't elude any of the shortcomings of steady state windtunnel testings or CFD analysis in comparison with real world data. Glad also the first series of tests you conducted was done in an outdoor velodrome with a lot more chances for the conditions to be approximating real world situations with a bit of turbulence still in there. You've more than earned my sub, sir !
I'm glad you liked it! I'll hopefully do many more videos like this while I cannot freely explore the world on my bike.
I've got to be the most un-aerodynamic bike rider ever. Seeing I ride for exercise it means I get a better workout in a shorter amount of time.
You may as well drag a boat anchor behind the bike too. You could cut your ride time in half!
@@Cyclingabout I used to put a car battery on my back rack to make hill climbing more challenging. Way more practical vs dragging an anvil 🤙
Ha... love it.
@@lavapix I'm just imagining you dragging an anvil on a chain down the road, with sparks flying as it scrapes along the tarmac, waking up your neighbors at 6am on a Saturday.
@@Cyclingabout not productive for those of us trying to slipstream him.......
A beautifully put together piece with some great take homes,you’re clearly something of a guru.
Also would love to know the drag variances with subtle changes in hand/bar position eg 42cm vs 46cm gravel bars,hands on hoods with optimised elbow flexion vs a standard hoods position etc etc.
Most studies I’ve seen gloss over this aspect simply testing the tops/hoods/drops
All of your videos are so extremely packed with so extremely researched, valuable information.
Extremely awesome!
Glad you like them!
Great video and something I've often wondered about. I recently switched from the typical 4-pannier-plus-handlebar-bag-and-dry-bag-on-the-rear-rack touring setup on a converted mountain bike to a bikepacking setup on a road bike. The difference was incredible, but it was as much about the weight drop as it was the aerodynamics. Overall, the bikepacking setup was 40 lbs. (18 kg) lighter. Of course, I had to eliminate a lot of gear that I used to tour with simply because there was nowhere to put it with the bikepacking setup. I found that I didn't miss most of that stuff at all, and the riding was much more enjoyable than before, especially when climbing steep hills. For many years I saw no reason to change my previous setup simply because I was capable of handling that much weight and wind resistance while still enjoying the tour. But as I aged, it became more and more of a struggle. The bikepacking setup lets me fully enjoy touring again.
Lol nothing to do with setup,more with bad preparation. 18kg of junk 😂
@@choanlpoto One person's junk is another person's treasure. Prep was fine and I had been touring with that much weight for 26 years with no problem, until a tour I did at 68 years old. That prompted me to go light, so I could keep touring into old age.
The bikepacking set-up is a quantum leap forward for efficiency and a more comfortable ride.
Like you, I had to lose a few litres of space, but I didn't need that kitchen sink anyway.
This is absolute gold and exactly what I was looking for. As always the content and presentation are superb. Thank you. JP
Ride 20% slower with what ever bicycle bags you want and enjoy the ride.
👍👍
So you couldn't possibly enjoy your ride if you had aero bags?
@@magnusdagbro8226 Not possible.
@@magnusdagbro8226 I enjoy to be able to pack my stuff easy and simple without worrying about oddly shaped aero-bags. I have nothing against ppl, who likes to go fast, but I just happened to like the simple way. I believe, that riding a bicycle has become to expensive and complicated, if one follows the advise on youtube and other places alike...
Sometimes you want to see as much as possible with your available time.
Brilliant video. Lots of information in a limited amount of time. Keep up the good work!
Much appreciated!
My takeaway, if I’m ‘bike packing’, two things. 1)-I’ll leave earlier. 2) I’ll remind myself at the start of each section; this is not a race.
Summary, enjoy your ride.
Great summary on the aerodynamics of bicycles. TOP Video.
very interesting! my take home message here is: two backpacks are just fine, providing you got enought of a belly
This is amazing! It is awesome to see quantitative information.
More to come! 🤘🏼
Every video of yours that I watch I learn something new and relevant. it's amazing. Congratulations! Greetings from Brazil!
A lot of good information and products you have in your channel. Thank you.
I liked my time in Oaxaca. There was a nice feeling about the place.
There is a quiet inner chamber in one on the more out-of-the-way hilltop Zapotec pyramids. It was worth experiencing.
Thx very much for the Awesome video. 🚴♂️😎👍
"Pick a path and get in-line." hehehehe. I very much enjoy that the most pedal efficient is the lazy recumbent, briefly mentioned at the end. Less efficient when you realize how difficult it is to keep going straight at low speeds because the moment of inertia from the tire contact patch is so much lower... but yeah, and the fact that for touring it's really unsafe not being able to see traffic from such a low position.
Great content and very enjoyable to see you working with the science to give some gentle insight on the aero advantages that most of us could benefit from. Thank you.
Fascinating stuff - thanks for the video!
Great information, thank you!
I have learned a lot and now I am thinking about a windshield for my touring bike. Years ago someone put just a simple umbrella for children in front of his bike with remarable success in aerodynamics. He only used this setup in case of strong headwind.
Great work done! Thanks for info
I love Nerdy Videos .
Thank you and Happy new cycling year
I did two 6 months trips on a recumbent 20.000 km and I loved it. With sometimes a lot of luggage my recumbent was made for these trips! Next trip will be bikepacking the GDMBR on a “normal” bike. An other trip will be on a Brompton. There are a lot of reasons to use a different bicycle for different trips. Interesting video, thanks!
Your cycling videos are outstanding.
Thanks!
Excellent!!
All we need to know about bicycle aerodynamic in one video, thank you
Very good bicycle adventure tour
Another outstanding video.
Fascinating! Thankyou!
What I learnt from this is that I should keep touring with my velomobile 😁 No need to sitt uncomfortable and no unnecessary wind drag 😉
I'm glad you mentioned the recumbent bike at the end 👍
If you're optimising around efficiency, it's hard to beat a recumbent!
I've searched all over Google and RUclips.. does nobody do long distance multi continent touring in velomobiles?
I'm talking outside of mainland Europe and the USA.
Central and South America? Asia? Africa?
@@TC-yx1qt
Velomobiles are only good on very good roads and could be ridden anywhere but not on bad roads and gravel. Then they are not easy to transport on trains or planes. You can find a velonaut going from China to Germany here.
www.202020.eu
@@AlveHenricson I think that's not completely true. Just like a car, there are cars for smooth tarmac, and there are cars for tough off road tours. It just happens nobody has built a velomobile for rough touring yet.
@@taufikabidin412
True, but thought the video was about high speeds, and you can not keep high speed on gravel roads regardless of the type of bike.
This is the Best Video I have ever seen in RUclips.
Glad it has made it to the top of your rankings!
I love your data-driven interpretation!!! This is just good science! Kudos, dude!!!
More to come!
Love the science in your explanation of your topics
This is such a brilliant analysis.
Love it! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
recumbent plug at the end. Classic :D
sales will go thru the roof...🚲🤦🏻♂️🤣
When I was into Audax and cycle touring some years ago I made myself a set of aero panniers that included two smaller aero front panniers, two larger aero rear panniers, a rear aero rack top bag and a front aero handle bar bag with a concealed aero bar that could be raised up so I could go into a tuck position. Depending on the trip/s I used some all all of them at any one time. They are were made out of a lightweight rip stop canvas with plastic sheeting inserted into them to keep their teardrop shape. In fact I still have them and anyone is welcome to have them for free.
This is sweet
Very informative and scientific. Now I can pack things smarter.
A friend of mine made a front fabric, aerofoil for Winter. It keeps his hands warmer too.
Very interesting video. Thank you.
"Without luggage you're about as aerodynamic as a cube." Showing a Cube bike at 1:28. Ha!
Your presentation was very entertaining and extremely informative at the same time! Keep up the good work!
Great content as always! Never thought about fenders having possible positive effect on drag.
Your video front and back panniers helped me a lot to plan for Norway this August. 9 days of riding 170 km each was enough for aerodynamics to matter a lot. However as I had to run 2 bulky rolls on the fork for tent and sleeping mat, which are about as aerodynamic as 2 front panniers, I went for back panniers instead of saddle bag. With mostly cold days and terrible rain, I was so glad to be able to remove the bags quickly and had some extra space for comfort food. Well worth the slightly worse aerodynamics. Noticable drag on decents compared to my unloaded bike. Barely had to brake, which during touring is a win in my book.
Sounds awesome!!! Man 180 km / day over 9 days sounds gnarly!!!
Really nice and informative video, as always quality. I'm even more happy now that I've chosen to go full bike bags and no panniers in my set up, headwinds can be an ordeal.
Good and informative video - Thank you
loved your conclusion on recumbents!
Amazing work, so great to see this science.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good stuff as always. TYVM
Great information as always. As a relatively slow tourer myself I think I favor comfort rather than efficiency. Would be interesting to see how a more upright position for long rides impacts on performance since an open chest can definitely improve breathing.
Comfort and efficiency are not mutually exclusive! More fitted clothes, as opposed to baggy clothes, are a perfect example of this. As are more in-line bags on your bike (provided you do not need the capacity).
I'm not so sure there are big differences in terms of lung capacity whether you use a narrow drop bar or wide flat bar. I haven't yet looked through the scientific literature, so if you've seen something interesting - link it through!
I agree on the curiosity. Over time your neck and back and shoulders hurt trying to be aerodynamic
A more upright position is actually a better thing for faster hill-climbing. Sitting up frees your quads to spin the legs easier. I ride up a local steep climb about 2kmh faster by sitting more upright, and even just steering with one hand.
Thank you for the in-depth look at aerodynamics. Bottom line for me: you provide information that anyone can use to easily improve efficiency which can be helpful and is never a negative. Take care and stay well :-)
Thanks Felipe! I wish people saw it this way. 😅
@@Cyclingabout It's a no-brainer! By the way, Priority has upgraded the specs for the 600x bike I had mentioned a while back. The bike will have Wren front suspension and a kickstand. The Wren seems like quite an upgrade to me. Maybe a bike worth considering for inclusion in your book. Not trying to sell anything here. It just seems like a good deal. :-)
I didn't see the fork change, and honestly don't really know much about Wren. I thought about the 600X for the book, but it looks like some pre-orders still won't have been fulfilled until late in 2021, so better to save it for 2022.
Absolutely brilliant
Thanks Norm! 👋🏼
This is why I subscribed. Great report.
Happy to have you along for the ride!
Awesome work, thanks a lot !
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the informative and technical info, absolutley love the nitty gritty side of your up loads,
can you tell me where you accquired the handlebars?. Thanks.
Interesting video, lots of good information. I would be curious to see if anyone could make a lightweight rigid pannier set that would also be more aero. Some motorcycle panniers are more aero than others and you can notice a handling and mpg difference with them.
Absolutely fantastic content my guy.
Glad you liked it!
Fascinating!
Cool Stuff! The fender info was particularly interesting. I have always felt a mental benefit from removing my fenders in the summer. Its nice to know that it was psychosomatic haha
Speed changes really depend on your fender length and setup! If you aren't shielding the front of the wheel and there is a lot of fender width popping out over the side of the wheel, it's definitely slower. 😉
The weight alone of the fenders will slow you down
@@samuelbino7915 meh. Im too heavy to worry about that.
@@samuelbino7915 Only when you are climbing.
very interesting! Thanks!
Amazing video!
This channel needs to grow!
I've had 100K new subscribers in the last year! I'm pretty happy with its growth. 😎
@@Cyclingabout Thanks for the great content. Love the scientific approach.
Happy to see you're vegan as well!
thanks terrific video good job
What a fantastic flashback to learning physics but in an interesting way. You spoon-fed us and amazing video of facts!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
More great info!
I can see why the inline style frame bags, narrow and long rear bags, and slim front bags help keep everything in the plane of your body. You just have to economize on what you carry, and more importantly what you don't carry. Lots of panniers is like having lots of parachutes to drag on you.
Very good nerdy content !
Glad you liked it!
super vidéo je m'abonne !!
Love it!!!!!
Thanks! Sounds like my best bet is to add a rear fender and one of those behind the seat bags, with maybe an underbar bag if I can fit it.
I'm a total newb to distance riding, so any decent info helps tons.
Neat, interesting video. Recumbent bikes are more aero which is good for downhills and flats, but as soon as a bike tourist hits a long mountainous uphill, the aero gains are wiped out.
but with trikes and quads, you dont need to balance and have that comfort, plus wih faired ones like Velomobiles, you are protected from weather
@@taufikabidin412 tricycles mean you cannot take turns as quickly as you could on a bicycle because you can no longer lean. Which imo takes a lot of fun out of riding.
@@cleveland2286 there are leaning trikes ruclips.net/video/e-DIWnsd-Ro/видео.html
Great information.
More awesome content well done Alee
And that's one sweet looking recumbent!!!
Nice and cool information as far as aerodynamic are consern, keep on sharing ideas bro.
thanks the video is very useful
I LOVE the numerical data along with real world experience/application in the work you do. You’re the ONLY source for bike data I’ve found to be consistently abundantly helpful!
Happy to buy your products knowing how much work goes into all of this information.
Are you an engineer by chance? Ha
Wow, thanks Chaz! I'm not an engineer but did well at physics/maths/science at high school. If I wasn't a full-time bike nerd, I'd probably be optimising cities as a strategic planner (my trade). I'm still pretty passionate about that stuff, especially bike infrastructure.
@@Cyclingabout Well, I'll surely be purchasing your products and sharing your content. I've never seen another resource (other than looking up studies and compiling them myself) that satisfies those who want more details and data than just opinions and adjectives ha.
I'm the weirdo that makes spreadsheets of data before a purchase. Try asking a car salesman the drag coefficient just for fun sometime haha!
Thanks again and keep it up! Finally, content that intrigues and informs the brain! Thank you!
Check out a video on the VW XL1 if you want to see some low drag numbers for a car! It's an amazing feat of engineering; the Cd is 0.159. 😍
I just purchased a rear seat bag and plan to get a triangle bag, top tube bag and possibly a handlebar bag. I think an aerodynamic handlebar bag is the hardest thing to find. I have toyed with the idea of aerobars and a bag like the seat bag up front. I think this might be more aero than none bagged riding but giving me more storage at the same time. Fenders have also crossed my mind for the rainy days and wet roads just to keep things a little cleaner. Running a litespeed gravel drop bar with GRX 800 groupo and 650b wheels with 47c refuse tires. It works great as a road/gravel bike with no gear although the treadless tires aren't the greatest in some more slippery conditions when off road.
blesssss you for all this info! also love your shirt :)
So we've finally proved what everyone already knew. The more comfortable you are on a bike, the slower you are.
P.S. I ride a tadpole trike and tow a trailer when touring, so that makes me infinitely slow. Especially when I stop to take a nap midday without even getting out of the seat.
Not necessarily true. I'm just as comfortable riding my road and gravel bikes long distances as I am riding my touring bike. And those bikes allow for a lower CdA. Plus, half of this video was about luggage and clothing, two things that won't change your comfort levels!
Wrong. What we learned is that we should use velomobiles for fast travelling.
@@Cyclingabout You are speaking of comfort relative to bikes in general. Trikes are among the most comfortable pedal machines out there. But I can wear clothing that is comfortable anywhere on or off the trike and doesn't look dorky. And I don't need a maxi-pad to protect my delicate parts, always more comfortable and no numbness at the end of a century ride. I'm an older guy and tend to wait out the heat of the day napping in a shady spot. I can do it sitting on the seat of my trike. It helps if I have something to prop my feet up on, but is not really necessary. If you don't think that is more comfortable, try taking a nap on your bike.
Comfortable but slow. Slower but most comfortable.
But you missed the whole point: the comment was a joke, not meant to be takens seriously by any means. I'm slow anyway, no matter what I ride. But I don't really care since I'm a tourist, not a racer, and don't set daily distance goals. I like to do six hours of turning the pedals and start to look for a place to camp for the night. I'm retired so I don't care how long it takes me. I can stop and smell and photograph the flowers, see the sights, like Mammoth Cave, Bryce Canyon, The Cosmosphere in Hutchinson, KS, etc without changing my clothes or walking funny. The cost is speed while riding, a price I'm quite willing to pay.
@@AlveHenricson Can't argue with that! But the damn things are costly. I'd have to give up other toys to be able to justify the price. Plus, I already climb slowly and climbing performance is generally more important than overall speed because most of the flat places aren't truly flat and speed on the downhills cannot make up for time lost climbing. If I lived in one of the prarie states, I'd be more likely to consider it because the mountains there are made of wind. But I live in NC where the hills and mountains are made of the more traditional rock and dirt and you are going either up or down, seldom cruising on the flat, except at the coast, five hours away from me by car. But I get you and would love to be able to justify having one. I'd still choose the trike for touring, though.
So I just back from Iceland and there was a day when there was 40kph wind, and trying to ride into that makes air resistance really matter! (Of course, half the time the wind is on your side, and of course it is gusty and just generally unpleasant regardless of how you pack, but it is what it is...)
This is indeed a very interesting topic! Here I also would like to see an aerodynamic front windshield like motorbikes have. I think it would contribute to even less drag.
Regarding the relation between air and rolling resistance this is dependent on as well speed and kind of tires and used air pressure in the tires. Air resistance being 90% of the total resistance at 30km/h is surely valid with racing tires. With wider tires the rolling resistance is a bigger part of the total resistance. If we go to the extreme: with low pressure fatbike tires the rolling resistance will probably be the major resistance at 30km/h.
Excellent
Thanks very much for the detailed info. Probably the best I have seen regarding bicycle aerodynamics (almost everything else concerns racing on racing bikes). I am definitely much slower with panniers.
Wow, thanks!
OMG ! I'm so happy I'm fat. There is no difference if I use front or back or bikepcking or nothing, I'm slow anyway :):)
But seriously - great job, great video. Thanks!
Great video. It's possible panniers might be better than bikepacking-style bags in a side wind though, because they're in line with each other from the sides.
Thank you
Damn your giving away my secrets... Some of the best aero gains I've experience was to strap a big round and smooth stuffsack to the underside of the front of my aerobars. My theory is that it worked a bit like a windshield deflecting air up and around my torso, creating a bubble to hide behind. That aerogain from a saddlebag to fill the lowpressure behind the rider is very intresting.
Can you give a link to where you bought your bag?
Maybe this is a dumb question but in what orientation did you mount it? I take it that it was bound parallel to the ground with the ends pointing in the direction of travel?
@@zer0nix It was a plump bag 25cm across and 40 long strapped at a 90degree to the aerobars.
Thanks!
Wow~ so cool~👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
awesomeness nice view there....do you need a person to make coffee....I don't eat too much 🤣🤣🚲🤦🏻♂️🤙 I need to get out more on the bike...but we have blizzards at the moment...Come on Spring!
recumbents are the way to go!
just by being way more comfortable, that would already justify it, but I would like to see science comparing a touring setup to uprights.
Interesting research over 135° fenders. Thanks for the informational video, cheers!
@D R They have very thin rims with carbon aero rims on time trials.
I think FCA is working against bicycle technology last 10 years.
But you're right, with that 7,5kg downlimit, you can easily add a fender and still be 7,5kg.
@D R Another reason might be because you don't need aero, but lightness in races.
aero is more required if you travel more than an hour with your bike.
Not for the speed but for efficiency I'd get it, You travel 100km, get tired for 90km, in a way of speaking..10km free ride without effort.
Great technical details from a great Bikepacker. I thought we'd share some technicals in comparative interest to bikepacking future possibilities. COVID has changed the bikepacking landscape politically, socially, and at the manufacturers levels, Aerodynamics are a factor in; "ebike touring' believe it or not, We have some interesting developments; this information is shared for the first time in goodwill to all peoples during the COVID; Non traditional Bikepacking; We did a 300kms in 12hrs with 25kgs of equipment 80% night time trail ride test; different 36v and 48v batteries with non commonality in connectors; wombats, rabbits, headwinds, gates, road trail, real world bugs, wasps (!), and interfering locals. Part of our EUROVELO Covid support aims on a carbon fibre modified ebike and a standard Class 3 ebike. Average speed was 24.5kms per hour. The heavier frames were more stable in cross and head winds (such as Iceland Tourism); 50kgs capable cartage / overall pannier weight. Carbon Fibre and titanium frames patents, small high density batteries to aviation and mountain environment protection; Online/offline stores along known routes with ebike mechanics / first aid qualifieds. Overall 'mainstream' bikepacking feasibility / micro-adventure tourism (as we operated at the extremes as easier initially until COVID Tourism). We started with ebikes modified from the Bikepacking, Touring and cycling world. Purists hopefully will see that Tourism can be achieved by people with lifestyle emobility; without class and expenses on Eurovelo. Possibly global tourism restarts. Possibly this will open up social ebiking globally or on Eurovelo 70,000kms of trails systems January 2020 in a networked world so more people can achieve experiences that injury, age, covid, or social status or parts integration with aviation logistics.would have denied them previously. life changing adventures after COVID lockdowns. High costs in time and equipment of traditional bikepacking ebikes initial price point; 95% original parts after 18,000kms of ebike real world riding tests 2019-2021; $170 in parts (generic parts globally accessible in remote areas); and $200 in electricity to go from Victoria Australia to the North Pole (in theory of distance). Integrated lifestyle as ebikes become a new breed; ortlied product lines COVID affected; backlogs in cycling parts manufacture; 10 Billion Euros to ebike Industries; Ebikes are now a new breed apart from its roots in Bikepacking and cycling componants. Stay safe and hopefully we can get Tourism globally restarted with the combined power of leaders in their fields in every sector and country working together to the common goals of human progress and human motivations.
Great video!! Thank you! You are clearly into going deep down the rabbit hole. You should read "the sacred cow".
Nice collection of data! Hand position on flat bar bikes is a huge factor for sure, and it’s free. Not easy to sustain for long periods of time, so I think aero bars of some sort would be a good addition.
Aerobars are a great way to reduce both the Cd and the A!
You not only showed a recumbent, but it was a Performer! Among trikes and bikes, I've got three Performers at home! :D
That's awesome!
I love it. One of the most dedicated, data-driven cycling youtubers looks at a recumbent and is like, lol nah