The Problem with "Exercise Science" (Audio Only)
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2018
- Mark Rippetoe gives examples of of some of the poorly designed studies and resulting conclusions being generated in the field of exercise science. Full text of the article can be found here: startingstrength.com/article/...
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Dear Rip, I can't thank you for your work enough, love your books and these podcasts.
I have been "walking the walk" since the January 2017 gained about 20 kg of lean body mass. Back in 2009 I was a competitive kayak racer and went to study exercise science to be a coach here in Slovakia. According to the problems with the "exercise science" everything is the same here. Most of the teachers run, swim or play games. As soon as I realized they know little about coaching I abandon the studies and opened my own gym.
I am also very thankful for Alan Thrall, because of him I found Starting Strength. I really want to come to WFAC to one of the Starting Strength seminars, but first I want to gain some lifting experience. Maybe one day I can successfully attend the Starting Strength Coach Certification.
Wish you strength and good health. And once more, thank you for your amazing work.
Your big fan Vic
After reading and learning from SS, I can sincerely say I have learned so much more over the past few months than my 5 years of lifting weights. My only regret is not discovering this sooner. Oh the bullshit it would've saved me.
Im currently prepraring myself to attend the Starting Strength coaches course, i am a trainer at a comercial gym and for the last 12 months ive read SS 3 times and taught everybody i know including all my clients freinds and family how to Squat, Deadlift, Press and Bench. My clients have never been happier and i have never had so much passion for my job as now i have something truly worth mastering, it keeps me motivated and i truly do understand the need for making people strong. I feel so thankful that i stumbled upon Marks content and i aspire to be as knowledgeable and the subject as he. Thank you Rip!
At Humboldt state university they teach a class where they teach all the barbell lifts. Mandatory for all kines majors. You learn the bench, press, squat deadlift, row and front squat
Even today a pt at my gym talks about endless reps and toning muscles.
Thanks coach rip.
How is it possible for personal trainers to be so clueless about training in general??
Like, every single PT I know of in my gym tries to discourage me from strength training saying im too young (I´m 17 btw) and that strength is useless, that im just doing it for my ego. Also they tell me that I should be doing endless reps per set to "tone" the muscles.
And all of them have certificates and have been in the gym for 20+ years, how is this possible??
Stop circle jerking, it's gross.
Tzar no u
Stop seeking validation
Tzar I was asking a genuine question, how is that asking for validation?
Because its obvious. there is tons of information out there, and lifting is not simple. Prioritization is not simple, and dogma is easy to adopt. You're acting like sport science is common sense when it isnt. if it were, starting strength wouldn't be a thing, and you would never have googled for a program to run.
Love the solo podcast Mark. Keep em coming!
Listening to Rip talk about traing others motivates me to want to help others do what I have accomplished with me.
Just understood now that the "SS" in the comments is used to refer to Starting Strenght and not to SchutzStaffel... Great video btw. Thanks
"Theft of money and time" another excellent quote! Thanks for this podcast.
Woow. Thank you so much for this amazing podcast. I am an 18 year old athlete competing both in my sport and training in the weight room consistently and i was considering going for an exercise science degree and you couldn’t be more right.
Thank you thank you thank you.
Self education and learning through actual experience and desire is what is required for this business :)
Soon as i heard back and front squat i knew this was gonna get good
Exactly the same thing happened in nutrition science. Pubmed is full of nutrition papers where the investigation motives seem sketchy, the methodology sketchier, and the conclusions of the researchers literally opposite what the data showed. Over and over.
I'm an ES major, but fortunately don't do it with the intent to train. More a clinical and research physiology focus. But I completely agree with Rip. It doesn't prepare you to properly show people how to perform an exercise. Thank God I found Rip.
Edit: fortunately my specific degree track requires 32 credit hours in bio/phys/chem and I undergo three our four physiology courses. My school has several ES degrees and some of them are outright embarrassing.
Our study aims to investigate the differences in strength and mass gains produced by variation in training regimens from the traditional approach of squatting with barbells in a gym using a squat rack and standing on a solid floor, and doing biceps curls atop a bosu ball balanced on a wobbling power-board on a sandy beach ground while Mark Rippetoe yells on your ear: _"BRAH!!! DO YOU EVEN LIFT, BRAH!?!!?_ ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)"
No appreciable difference in efficiency increasing strength or body mass was found by the study. In total, were used 7 sedentary housewives, all taught and requested to do the exercises on the spot, for a total study duration of 2 sessions, in 2 days (consecutive). All subjects managed to achieve the study's maximum goal of squatting 90 lbs. (after which, the weight increases were ceased), except for one petite Asian lady, who, upon being Rippetoed, peed herself and went to hide behind a rock, on the beach, and could not be persuaded to come back to the study. Further studies could investigate the invariance in strength gains to diet, and resting schedule, as well. There follows a table with the standard deviations in sand particle size in all the beaches utilized. [...]
fsmoura finally some proof that Rip is lying all along
Very much like how the subject matter is presented, logical and objective...
I want to point out reviewers have a lot of pressure not to dismiss something that "Does not seem right" when there is data a available. Instead the studies need to fail in the replication stage to show reviewers "This type of thing isn't adding up" otherwise they will worry they are letting their own bias for what makes sense cloud their judgement
Thank you..your the best
Yeah I’m here a little late but I’m so glad this video popped up. It just seem the medical and academic community has completely lost touch with reality and focus more on woke shit more than our needs in health. I feel your frustration and agree with you 100%. Even though I’m nowhere near your gyms I still pay close attention to your videos and they are a game changer. Your entire team is awesome. Thanks Rip.
Hi Rip
Fantastic talk. We have the same shitty situation in engineering. Out of 100 published papers u will find at best 5 papers that are practically applicable. The rest are just cutting corners with un-real assumptions to make their results look fancy.
Everybody with PhD. know it better that you Mark Isn't it? NO NO they have no clue what proper lifting mean. After over 40 years in gym I spent 12 500 hours / 1.5 year. I can't say that all time I lifted properly. But finally I know where my path guiding me. Thank people like you.
These examples are gold
The problem with universities is that they all use Consensus Exercise "Science." As opposed to real Exercise Science. Hence the gross incompetence in their field. I earned a P.hD. in physics from the University of California. RIP's analysis holds true for all consensus driven "Science." The journals and publications out obfuscate the truth.
Increased overload, clean nutrition, consistancy. The end.
Are there videos of single-legged squatting on a Swiss ball?
I'm dying of laughter.
You are so wright . You are 100% correct .
Rip, is it necessary to Squat, Deadlift and press if I just want to be physicaly fit and able to use my body for every day stuff. I don't need a lot of strength. I have been doing martial arts for more than 15 years.
Maiwand Sarwar
Yes. I do martial arts too. These exercises actually made me better overall. Remember these exercises test every part of you including your cardiovascular system.
Yes.absolutely
strength increase will improve your martial art performance if competition is your goal. strength will definitly help everyday stuff, specially in older demographics, but I don't know how a martial art trainee, I assume relatively young, will have a question about everyday life as he's likely more "fit" than gen-pop.
What a bizzare question.
cool beans even more weird answer
It's interesting to note that, while Mark Rippetoe & Ken Hutchins have have extremely different ideas about training, they both find mainstream education's protocols to be useless.
This video was excellent. Informative and funny (in a bleak way). Provided by Mark Rippetoe, a mediocre athlete who tried very hard :)
If Rippetoe had squatted 950, benched 650, and deadlifted 980, Starting Strength might never have seen the light of day. I wonder what if the Devil would propose to Rip a deal: Whether he'd like to go back in time and be such a great powerlifter, but not being allowed to write SS. Or to write SS back in 1980, but hit mediocre numbers. I wonder what Rip would choose. There would also be some rare whiskey involved as part of the deal. Cheers.
White Wolf most. Pointless.comment. ever.
But I hope you feel better now.
I feel much better now. Thanks.
I remember the first time I squatted my bodyweight...literally the first time I squatted.
Caleb Wochnick probably looked like shit
SMELLTHEGLOVE It felt like it too. The only thing I knew was that you had to go below parallel. I was just screwing around in the gym until the great and powerful Rippetoe showed me a better way.
_Pathetic._
I choked about the space station that was great.
Uncle rippe these people need some HIP DRAHVE to facilitate a mutation in their brain to produce effective forces to create accurate study conclusions
But the 5th study is the most hilarious turns out that not resting makes an exercise harder😂😂😂
25:01
Gonna give MadCow a 16 week run !
"Do you even train?"
SS version of "do you even lift?" 😂
I love Rip.
Mark couldn't hack being an Exercise Physiologist. He had to settle for a degree in Geology. Rocks for Jocks, as we used to call it. Not a reason for high intellectual praise.
If light weights are the key to strength, then training on the international space station would be best! Lol Keep it simple
I studied Computer Science. It's all math.
I go to sleep listening to this haha
To be fair that happens in lots of professions you have to take lots of bull shit classes ... in Med school you would not pass the usmle only using your class lectures without outside courses and or test prep books
that is not heavy!
They're not promoting science. They're promoting advertising.
Most just teach cert material from NASM, ACSM, etc. You can get that without the 30k of debt.
Not gonna lie, rip single handedly saved me from wasting a bunch of time and money on a degree and a CSCS.
yes but he has those things...it's an evil necessary...get your degree than train how you want to train...no degree who is going to train with you?
This is why my degree was not dumb
Barbell training is highly discouraged
This is a decent audio. A refreshing difference from the typical SJW emotional and unsubstantiated doctor bashing usually on here.
Sentry Stout To me it just means anyone who sees things with their emotions first and foremost.
I actually agree with Rip here. Getting a degree in exercise science isn't a smart move and probably a bad decision.
Sentry Stout Only 'pretend' scientists like Rip (and apparently you) throw in the word "organism" every chance they get. It also happens to be all over Rip's books. That word was introduced in freshman biology in undergrad. So it happens, a doctor had an additional 4 years of medical school, 4-5 years residency, and probably 1-2 years fellowship. Including academics, research, and actual clinical experience. Doctors are not pretentious enough to say things like "human organism". They would just say person or individual and move on. Humility.
Rip has a good voice but an athlete or teacher shoudn't have the body he does. Even at his age. I don't agree with most of his doctor bashing. He would be the first one to accept life saving treatment (from the big bad evil doctors) if he had a car crash or a cancer diagnosis.
Is it really that bad in the US?
I know dudes who did a university project to coach each other in the first semester of their bachelors and manage the programming in Germany
And as far as I know they all get taught at least about progress in athletic, strength and flexibility performance (no idea about the quality of that info tho)
But who the hell goes to university to become a coach? I never heard of that ...here they want to become scientists
😂😂😂😂
Everything in the Starting Strength program is literally covered in ONE course of ONE semester of ONE year in a FOUR year Exercise Science program.
Those that "learned more in his 25 hour class" may have literally just not taken that ONE course.
Exercise Science leads to working with people of ALL ages and ALL capabilities from people with disabilities to high level athletes.
Mark Rippetoe's "righteous indignation" against actual scientists should set off alarms in anyone with any ability to discern whether or not a person who is SELLING A COURSE may be CREATING A NARRATIVE to make it seem like there is value in his PRODUCT.
Exercise Scientists can become MEDICAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS and therefore it should be understood that Doctors, Physiotherapists, and Exercise Scientists are more knowledgable than a "coach."
Marks info is out there for free. Even his book is under 40 bucks. But to learn the movements he talks about all you need to do is watch his videos and that already gets you started
@@robertfoster8742 Okay...not sure what that has to do with my point? Mark clearly uses every chance he gets to act like he is giving out knowledge that supersedes and surpasses trained medical professionals.
@@yew2oob954 more to your accusation that he may be creating a narrative to sell a course. Anyways it’s hard to argue that the junk studies centred around exercise science are not junk. Just because someone holds a degree doesn’t mean they’re untouchable. Someone like Rip can judge the quality of research that under-girdles these medical professions and pick them apart. After all degrees are letters next to your name and proof you can study and generate papers for 4 years. Doesn’t mean the papers are any good.
@@robertfoster8742 That's not what Rippetoe does. He implies that people who hold degrees don't know what he knows. I've clarified in my first statement exactly my problem with him.
You are creating a strawman, on his behalf, and then assuming that you can speak for him.
Go look at this video where he is literally giving advice to someone who had a stroke: ruclips.net/video/hdFT-1vO6Xk/видео.html
Can you honestly say that he's being "misunderstood" and having "letters behind your name" changes nothing in that case? He's literally diagnosing and coaching a serious medical condition over the internet based on an email.
At best you are being disingenuous. Marks's primary goal in doing this is to make money. He needs to be seen as an authority to do so. Further evidence of this can be found in his tantrums thrown as a result of other youtubers that criticize him.
@@yew2oob954 I don’t think I’m being disingenuous or creating a straw man. Just it doesn’t bother me that the guy makes bold claims and sometimes bad advice. His programs work, and I’ve had a better experience with a SS coach than any other fitness professional. Who cares he makes the conclusion that the authors of shitty studies must not know what he knows. He backs it up. Is he wrong about the shittiness of the study’s he talks about in the video? Don’t they seem like they were designed by people who don’t train like Rip teaches?
But in terms of his greed, he’s honestly slowed the expansion of his business into Europe and the UK to preserve the quality of his coaching. Namely, the rate at which he certifies coaches doesn’t justify the cost of setting up gyms over seas. Also he just plain hates Canada because he thinks we’re too liberal up here. None of these seem like solely money motivated decisions but interest in the quality of his services. So likely his disagreements on scholarship and appeals to his own authority are probably not money motivated either.
Point is, and the part I agree with him, he’s citing bad studies and bitching about how it creates bad fitness advice from otherwise medically certified professionals. I value 40 years experience and praise from many many people over the peer reviewed studies from people who’ve seemingly studied for 1/10th of that time, part of who’s authority comes from completing a degree. And evidently the logic of their studies shows their inexperience in lifting.
Of course if it’s a legit study then there’s no problem. Even if a small percentage of study’s are poorly designed or false the fact they get hyped up in peer reviewed journals is grounds to be skeptical of all of em. 🤷♂️Idk He’s just a very very very opinionated asshole of a gym owner who’s made quite a good reputation in the fitness industry for over 40 years. Which by default makes him an authority.
RIP really makes it seems like having significant strength is the solution to everything. One day he's going to put out a video claiming that strength training increases VO2 max and can cure Ebola. Lol
for Vo2 max: it seems to be in low trained people. source:link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11556-013-0120-1
He’s absolutely insane. People with an exercise science degree are educated within all facets of health and fitness. Mark Rippetoe is just a powerlifting coach and nothing more.
EDIT: I’m not trying to be mean about it, either. It’s just the truth.