So, WHO is paying Tom's Hardware off? There's usually money involved, somewhere... Just tell the truth, folks. There's plenty of competition, and we as customers are NOT stupid.
@@bamahama707 , Toms Hardware got called out before for shilling for NVIDIA. Toms refused to even host AMD video card reviews when given the chance for FREE back a year ago or so. I stopped going to Toms a while ago, and while I know it's not all B.S. I'd rather stick with someone I TRUST like Hardware Unboxed, GamersNexus etc.
@@photonboy999 wow that's sad, I really thought I could trust Tom's Hardware. I thought it was part of the community as much as anything else but this is just unacceptable.
@@photonboy999 Which is why one must do one's OWN research, yes? I just finished building an AMD 3800x system, spent over 9 months gathering info. Now that it's up and running, still more changes in the works.
So... Tom's Hardware is arguing with MSI's engineers themselves? The people at MSI were able to duplicate the problem, and Tom's thinks they know better than the people that work there?!
My first ASUS MSI X570 WIFI motherboard fried the IO chip to memory in a case with 5 fans and at room temp of 65 degrees. I think the issue is the stupid placement of the motherboard fan for chips is UNDER THE VIDEO CARD, amazingly stupid placement! My only solution was to get a extension cable to move the Video card to another mounting location and look MSI FUCKED THIS UP!
@@Big-Siggi What temp is your house 21F below? 65F degrees is very low for most people in the USA most have a room temp set at 68F or 72F as normal range. Unless you think C is the standard in USA which it is not.
Steve, after years of helping people on the troubleshooting section of Tom's and being over ruled by super moderators that acted like infants who clearly were biased in terms of recommendations and felt like they were promoting products rather than genuinely trying to help ppl out i've given up on that website completely. The level of incompetence and shilling that goes on in their forums is just mind boggling.
Yeah. They just can't stop meddling the forum. Forum is used to be a sanctuary filled only tech minded people helping each other, far apart from their articles.. When they start promoting strange people as mods, i know something have gone very wrong.
I've seen crap get recommended for their build guides all the time, plus there was one where one mod had nearly all of his builds selected, but his lists all shot up from middle of the pack to far above everyone a couple days before voting ended.
Exactly, I was an active member of tomshardware forums too, and I usually answered questions regarding pc building. But many a times the mods would choose a answer that was wierd, I mean costly with less performance builds were chosen as best answers by the mods. I always thought it must have been a silly mistake from the mods and overlooked that. But your comment now makes much more sense of the real situation there.
@@rwbimbie5854 agreed - I have many gripes with the company from back in the X58 days, but one thing they've never done is outright ignore a problem/not accept responsibility with proof. They've always gotten a nod from me for that.
"Most buyers in the sub-$200 motherboard market will never upgrade to the Ryzen 9 3950X, and few will even jump up to the 3900X, and hardly any buyers would expect boards in this price class to overclock those processors. When you’re mostly after the basics in an X570 board, so you can spend more on the processor or other components, the MPG X570 Gaming Plus is easy to recommend."
MSI redeemed themselves big time by stepping up and acknowledging they messed up. Anything less than that and I would have avoided their products for life
I've never owned an MSI board before, so I'm unsure how they perform, but based on what I've seen on their graphics card lineup so far, including some experiences of cards suddenly dying after a few months of normal use... I avoid them like the plague when it comes to graphics (for AMD products at least, I go with sapphire every time I have a chance).
PERIODIC TABLE Sure we could - one regular person doesn’t buy motherboards that often during their lifetime, and you could get motherboards from several server manufacturers who could easily ramp up their workstation production. Some PC manufacturers even do custom silicon now.
Yes ok, the same old overused garbage "meme". At this point, I'm almost starting to believe you "memesters" are just bots. Seriously, its just copy-pasted crap.
_"So you met with the head of MSI's motherboard department, and they acknowledged your critisism? Wel we don't care, stop trolling and just buy it."_ *BUY IT*
I'm new to this channel and I might have watched around 50-60 videos and I like both this guys (Tim and Steve).....Genuine content and exactly needed information.
MSI's response was great, this is what we want to see from companies, that's how, even if you get a bad product, you can at least not lose all your trust to them again and actually consider buying from them again. Good job MSI good job.
Agree: MSI have very much kept themselves on my shopping list next time I look for a mobo (after HW unboxed & GN review - but still, the heart and mind is very much open to them)
Yes exactly! Just probably because of that they have released a great board X570 unify for mature people with great vrm's solid features never running pch fan which I`m using for 3 months now. Msi did the same thing with their cooling fail for 5700 series gpus. They admitted it and they have fixed it.
It's been dead to me since they refused to review AMD's Kaveri release and instead they went for main article on that day with (drum roll please) investors suing AMD on inflated earnings forecast
Way back in the day Tom's Hardware was one of the go to sites for hardware reviews. Even though the site has managed to stay active when so many others have folded it is sad to see what it has become. Hardware Unboxed is a very good resource, keep up the good work and try not to let TH get under your skin.
The original Tom has long since left the site. He himself has stated how dismayed he is at how the site has been run lately. It stayed true to its roots for a few years, but the rot began to set in slowly, and the site eventually deteriorated into things like the "just buy it" editorial, or disgraceful reviews like the ones discussed in this video.
Some of the reviewers are definitely, lacking, but many of the core reviewers are some of the highest level, most experienced reviewers in the industry and have been around, reviewing hardware, since before many of you commenting here were even born or learned to use a mouse. What's sad isn't the fact that there are a few weak reviewers there. What is sad is that there are so many clueless users out here without the least idea of what they are talking about but free rein to do so.
I disagree strongly with that naming scheme for one simple reason. It's copying Prince, and it's the exact opposite of what happened in that case. Prince became "the artist formerly known as prince" as the label refused to release his own name back to him when he parted ways. In this instance, It would be more along the lines of the label grabbing a drunk hobo off the street and giving him the name "Prince" and telling him to sing on a stage, with comparable quality results.
Yeah and they fired Igor as well, the guy who did the German version with meticulous testing and iirc he used to provide a lot of data for the us outlet.
I have exchanged a few posts with this "Crashman" at the Tom's forum, and yup, he's not too bright. He was trying making some argument against a poster about how AM4 wasn't any better than Intel socket life because of blah blah blah ... I can't remember, but he was completely conflating sockets with chipsets to win his argument. I very bluntly pointed this out to him (as I do), and thought "does this guy really not know the difference between a chipset and a socket?" Anyway he left a snarky response and left that exchange rather abruptly.
Love this kind of reporting; honest, transparent and dignified. Never seen Steve so 'agitated' but in the end he takes the edge off with a laughter. This channel deserves all respect for their work and integrity.
We’ve found the hardware equivalent of a Disnoid. You know, the type who tells you that the latest Disney movie is the best movie ever and you must be an evil person if you don’t buy at least ten tickets immediately - even if the director says “yeah, we didn’t succeed in everything we were trying to do here”.
I genuinely avoid Tw site, on top of the aggressive adverts even after blocking them (they still have in line prices things been inserted even with blocking adverts) my Asus x370 prime pro seems fine with the 3800x as long I have a super slow fan blowing over the board (need it for the nvme ssd as it heats up quite quickly)
CrusadesOClock regardless if it’s Tom or not, someone wrote proofread the article and allowed it to be written. Specially when you have a company, stuff has to be checked before it goes up. They just need to do their homework and back up their research correctly instead of calling out people. They should have just told everyone that Gigabyte has a better bios than Asus at that point.
19:12 - "they used the wrong tools for the job, in more ways than one". I'm choosing to interpret that as an excellent pun, intentional or not 😂 TomsHardware was seriously offside here and this was a great example of a calm, measured response on your part. Keep up the good work!
@@ObsoleteVodka Two decades. Tom left 2001. It was a good publication for most of that time, it started falling apart 2017-ish. Or maybe starting 2014 when Angelini left.
10:14 I'm a Dev, more precisely a Game Designer, last year I paired a 2400g with x470 motherboard, why?? For the sake of fking upgradeability and budget restrictions at the time. The plan is simple, go for a 2700X/3700x/4600X whatever comes at the best price/performance during the summer. Just to add my 2cents with all the people that answered the pool, Toms has lost any reputation and credibility, even from the founder!
I literally purchased a gaming pro carbon wifi + 3900x when they released. After watching your original video, I ripped it apart and drove an hour back to the shop I bought it from. I didn't pay $250 for a board that couldn't overclock, I struggled to get it to 4.3 all core (simply thought it was a bad chip). As soon as I got a new board (ASRock phantom) I got that same chip passing cb r20 at 4.55ghz with 8000 score to match. So sincerely thank you.
To be fair. The cheapest X570 board is around $150. $150-200 is what you would expect the top end enthusiasts boards to cost at a minumum... Otherwise you go for mainstream or entry level boards.
the cheapest good x570 board is $280-$300..low end x570 is shit, better off getting b450 tomahawk max or better..unless you're going 3900x or better or are just into extreme overclocking you dont need $300 board
Yeah... when GeForce XX80 is $699 and XX80Ti cost more than the previous Titans and Titans are well over $2K. Welcome to the late 2010s and early 2020s!
It's just sad to me. A long time ago, Tom's was one of the best places around for tech news and reviews. Then it got bought by someone else, and now it's just a crap shill factory. It's depressing.
I think it’s because with the rising age of RUclips reviewers they’ve seen a hit in traffic. Tom’s used to be the go-to for hardware reviews, benchmarks and stats but now there’s a plethora of RUclipsrs offering the same in a video format and As a result Tom’s has seen a traffic hit and is probably resorting to corporate sponsorships and shilling.
meanwhile Steve has been telling everyone to buy garbage AMD gpus LUL. Then retracting his opinion and telling everyone their drivers suck and NOT to buy them. He cant make up his mind which way he wants to go with all the cherry picked results. One day he's an Intel fanboy catering to the masses... a couple years later once Intel decides to get complacent he's an absolute AMD fanboy. Truly troll moves based mostly on youtube views I'm sure. Can you blame him? Drama makes for great views.
@@itsneight1260 Sounds like he's just a fan of what's good price to performance. Wouldn't you be if you're a reviewer on RUclips? That explains the amd gpu's too, hey they're really good but I'm not gonna recommend them anymore cause 1/5 of you will have driver issues.
In his opening line of the response he even CONCEDES that he "didn't recommend this board as a 3950x or 3900x- specific solution because [he] has serious doubts of its ability to power these through any level of overclocking."! The entire schtick of the x570 boards is that they are considered a premium, flagship sku - and therefore even the most basic versions should reasonably be expected to be at least on-par with their B450 and x470 counterparts at similar price-point. I feel like MSI's B450 Pro Carbon could handle a 3900x quite....handily. If you're stuck for content, there's a good one for ya. Pit the x570 Gaming X (or Pro Carbon Wifi) against the B450 Pro Carbon rocking a 3900x and see how the comparison is. I feel like it would demonstrate huge disparities in quality *from the same manufacturer*.
"We at Tom's Hardware believe High-end Ryzen is all lies, and we love seeing a motherboard that finally gives the fanboys and their over-hyped CPUs the garbage treatment they deserve. For your hubris, Tom's Hardware sentences you to throttling by VRM."
It's like they are stuck in Intel way of thinking. Every ( almost ) upgrade needs new motherboard. They haven't got grasp on what AMD is yet. Maybe 3 generations is not enough to get grasp of it; maybe they will get grasp of it in 5th generation xd Sad!
So to give you an idea on how this concept aged. I bought a 3600 with a Aorus Elite x570 last year, October. I'm currently trying to get a 5950x. So yes, people do buy products with an upgrade path in mind. The beauty of pc building is that this is possible. One could indeed build as you go, once you have the starting parts.
"When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing? " And now this... Tom's Hardware has become a joke.
@@jimmyjango5213 - nope. It's still present in the article but slightly modified after receiving criticism. This was the original quote. They changed the phrase from "When you die..." to "When your whole life flashes..." now. Still ridiculous.
True. When they started they were fine, but they became a giant and also giant liars, one reason: they prefer money over the truth. Never Tom's hardware anymore, that place should be shut down.
Thumbs up. Tom's Hardware has been sinking into irrelevance for years. "Tom's Hardware founder comments on RTX 'Just Buy It' scandal, Aug 27 2018 "It is ultimately ridiculous, it is indeed suicidal ... Yes, this is madness, and good old Tom is scratching his head no less than you are, Steve! (Gamers Nexus)" Thomas Pabst founder of Tom's Hardware, ex-Tom's Hardware.
Grateful for this and other MB reviews. Saved me from a bad purchase. Waiting on an Aurus Master in the mail now, for a 3950x build. Shame Tom's hardware did themselves an injustice in the credibility stakes.
It's two years later and I have to say, I love HUB and everything they do, but my MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus has been a fantastic board, don't know if MSI fixed this issue, but the consensus from folks that own it is that it's fantastic.
I lost all respect for Tom's Hardware after that article. New ownership is just driving the publication into the ground as they exploit its once-deserved good name.
Tomshardware is troll now, they were suggesting a person to buy cheap chinese pump for custom watercooling loop as the user was looking to get watercooling for cheap price, then i suggested to get 240mm or 360mm aio that will look better and will be much safer than going with cheap pump or get better pump if the user still want to go custom watercooling for cheap price. Then the mod who was suggesting cheap pump trolled me and banned me stating the reason that i was banned already and the banned was mistakenly lift. Even the actual tomshardware staff didn't punished the troll mod.
TBH, there's not much wrong with the chinese watercooling parts. My main build was all high end EKWB shit and then for my other 2 pc's i bought cheap aliexpress water pumps etc and none of them have failed in the last 2 years of use. Anecdotal sure, but if someone asked you what AIO to use and someone said "AIR" it's not that the answer is bad but it's irrelevant.
@@tonymorris4335 I feel like with the fact that most PC components are made in china coupled with the fact that Chinese people are PC enthusiasts to a fairly high extent, they would definitely have decentish parts.
@@AlucardArkaine it's on a case to case thing really, there are reputable chinese brands. People act like it's the olden days where made in china meant knock offs.
@@eternalzeero Exactly. Alot are still knock offs, there are no questions, but that doesn't mean all are. Doesn't even mean the knock offs are necessarily bad.
Tom's hardware got rather poor over the years: the quality of content is low, malicious ads on mobile, articles comments disabled because people used to call out their nonsense claims.
I used to be active for years on the forums a decade ago but I left exactly for this reason as well. Things just went downhill, it used to be an excellent site for enthusiasts.
@@SirChocula im in the same camp as well. Was highly active there in the forum till about 5-6 years ago when the ads started becoming excessive after the transfer from Best of Media to Purch. The disabling of comments in random news/reviews and the whole "just buy it" issue just push me away almost completely. Once in a blue moon, I'll check the Folding@home thread and see if the guide has any issues and fix them but thats about it.
Why do some ppl allways look for some BS. Where none is to be found. Allways making it abouth color.. Wake up. I dont care if he was white black blue pink... Was abouth how he done things. And fits nice to this video. 🤷♂️🙃
@@mobilemonster7681 it's not that, It's been years and Stefan (The Verge PC build guy) still refuse to apologies and/or remake a video. Instead he goes on and call people nerds and other derogatory terms. When he is the idiot. Like him you should check your facts before opening your mouth.
@@tomasjanok7806 Because it is about color. You know how many whites and Asians make mistakes as tech tubers but no white people call them out..hmm funny how one darker skinned individual makes an honest mistake yet he's criticized till this day.
Props for taking such a reasonable approach while standing firm for us about what's right. Also I sincerely appreciate that you were clear up front about the interactions with MSI essentially clearing them of wrong doing apart from making a crap board. Thank you!
Says a lot about a company that’s willing to take the time to replicate test results, send a big wig down to have a meeting, and then accept the results and take all of that info back home and put their team to work to correct the issues. Much more then blaming AMD for general specs. Asus: 😳
Tom's Hardware has always been biased and Intel fanboys, gave up following them 15 years ago, they are like the modern news media, not worth listening too ! You guys should ignore them and continue with the great job you do !!
Since hardocp shut up shop the best place to get advice online are hardware unboxed and gamers nexus. Tom's has been bloody awful for years. Anandtech hasn't gone too bad yet since there big media buyout but not really a place for buyers advice anymore.
They were not always biased or intel fanboys. It was quite the opposite when Thomas (Tom) ran the shop. May have been before your time though. It is sad though what happened to them when he sold the company.
@@sor609 I totally agree they used to be a great site but maybe 15-20 years ago. Almost never visit any more. Plenty of decent sites and RUclips channels to fill the voids for us old timers.
Since 'Tom' left tomshardware, that website has become an AD infested joke. Almost all of the reviews I've seen on there over the last few years I consider barely credable. (Edit, grammer)
@@Taijifufu nah, I'll rather go to Reddit r/techsupport for my pc problems than tomshardware forums. The mods are kinda weird in giving the best solutions....
"Just buy it"! No one takes TH seriously anymore. I haven't read a review there in a very long time especially since the nvidia fiasco. We trust true reviews. Keep on plugging HU. I love MSI and still buy their good products, that being said, I did buy the Asus Prime X570 P this round because of the thermal review you did. First time I havent used MSI in years.
Honest to god I bought a Asus Prime X570 P at first and switched to an MSI x570 Pro because it had better features, it runs a 3600 fine. I got them both on sale for ~130
I remember when Tom's was my go-to for reliable PC hardware reviews and testing. That was a LONG time ago. I'm glad we have channels like this to fill the void very well. Kudos!
Hotter environments exist ... yeah. As a European, I may confirm you that air conditioning is a concept that is mostly kept to cars and shopping centers and that my room hits temperatures between 35 and 40°C on hot summer days. Outside of the fricking case. The air coolers are probably trying to keep the temperatures cool in a 40 to 50°C environment at this point. If the VRM can't handle a 20°C environment, how will it work in this conditions?
Here in India it's reaches those temps pretty easily with proper case fans and everything . 40°c is pretty common And affording ac is much cheaper than being able to afford a PC
@@dubious6718 i saw a figure 10years ago that less than 43 percent of the WEST even has a refrigerator in their homes. If that's the case--imagine what the AC levels of ownership are in the WORLD.
You know you're dealing with a quality author when his opening line is "you disagree with me, therefore you're a troll" or he whines "I don't like what you're saying, therefore you're a troll", instead of engaging in dialogue to understand where differences of approach, opinion or results come from and to determine whether anything should be changed. For me, Tom's Hardware lost its way a long time ago, and seems intent on destroying its credibility. I haven't referenced them for anything serious in ages. Keep up the good work HU!
Proof that good journalism includes peer reviews, sources checking, investigative works and a healthy dose of self-reflection in the face of criticism.
I bought one of these x570 boards and it literally CAUGHT ON F’n FIRE! Not even exaggerating. My board created a flame near the VRM’s when i tried to boot it. I have experience building PC’s, nothing was incorrectly configured, it just caught flames for no reason. I freaked out, unplugged it from power right away, got my 3900x tf outta there and switched to an ASUS strix x570. It works perfectly and i’ve never looked back since. I’m mainly just happy my 3900x didnt get fucked up. But i’ll never get another msi board again. Edit: it was the gaming edge wifi btw
Imagine being MSI, already tried their best in this situation, only to have some1 'advertise' their bad x570 boards for them. Feels like this Thomas is the actual troll here.
That's my first through, they f-up, owned it, made corrections then when it's out of the news this 'tech white night' comes to put this f-up back into conversation.. Alternatively it's MSIs marketing department paying up Tom's hardware and it backfires.. Hmmmm....
i mean, there are 200$ x299 board. they are on sale and not new but you would expect to run at least a 12 core on it.... with well over 100W TDP. wtf do they expect. if i buy a 3700x i would buy a x470 or even b450... for a x570 i would at least expect a 3900x or a later upgrade later on to a simular CPU
“When you’re mostly after the basics in an X570 board, so you can spend more on the processor” Exactly why you don’t want the MSI board! Makes no sense! I wanted to be able to afford a 3900X so I opted for the ASUS Prime X570-P thanks to Hardware Unboxed excellent testing! Thanks guys !
NobleRaider2747 Plays He literally just told you the reason he bought a cheaper yet capable board is that it allowed him to afford a better processor. Are you even paying attention?
You should be ok so long as your not maxing out a 3900x or a 3950x with so.ething like prime 95. Throw some good fans in your case and make sure the airflow is good and with a 3700x or lower CPU it should at least get the job done. Would I buy the boards no but if you already have one its not the end of the world.
Had msi x570 gaming carbon over heated so bad just closed down after a few minutes of running returned to retailer, now running gigabyte x570 arorous master no hassle ,maybe just a duff board but first custom build not want to take a chance
I bought the Gaming edge then looked at your reviews and then posted it almost immediately on both Ebay and then later on r/Hardwareswap and got it sold then bought a better b550 from you round up and am way happier!
This has helped me become a bigger fan of MSI. Everybody has some screw ups, some mistakes, some failures, but if you handle it like a true professional and put effort into doing better next time, that’s admirable.
MSI and Gigabyte both have been doing a great job cleaning up legitimate design issues(shout out to ASRock for seemingly rarely finding themselves in this position) In fact, it sounds like all of the major board brands are doing a great job from a consumer perspective - except ASUS...
MSI messes up more than the other brands, from what I’ve witnessed. However, I’d take them owning up to their shit instead of what ASUS and Apple, as well as Logitech to a smaller degree, as they never seem to fix problems despite them being reported.
I think you're giving them too much credit. Keep in mind, they either: Didnt check temps of VRMs during design and QC Or Saw those temps and said fuck it she'll be right. Either case reflects very poorly.
Watched two of your videos and subbed to your channel , easy for me to understand a lot of the content not all but enough to make a good decision on my first new build . Thanks
Yeah...the main tool they forgot was the one between their' ears. Those guys would test the taste of apples by eating bananas, and report that prunes keep them moving.
I'm glad you made this video. They have been doing sketchy stuff in reviews for certain items for a while. If you really want to see some suspect stuff look at their audio gear reviews. Some stuff they trash while listing incorrect specs or review it without ever even touching the product.
Hardware Unboxed said they will address Toms Hardware’s claim in a light manner... then casually rips them a new one and exposes them as a bunch of amateurs. TheVerge2020
@@HumanWreckage89 Has flaws like any other product, but not "everything" is wrong with it. Also, if someone wants to go high-end, you don't buy AMD because they don't even have high end yet. Are you going to tell me that rtx is useless, so just buy a 1080Ti? Ridiculous
I have an MSI Gaming Plus motherboard matched with a Ryzen 3900X and have overclocked to 4.2Ghz on all the cores. My VRMs have never gotten that hot. I stressed tested my system for a couple hours to make sure the system would stay stable and it did. I am using a Corsair h110i liquid cooling AIO on the processor. It may be because mine is a rev 2.0 edition but I have never seen temps that high on my VRMs.
"everyone that disagrees with me is a troll" This has become an insanely common belief / escape tactic in modern society regarding any subject. Politics is really bad for that, if you disagree in politics, you are "definitely" a "troll".
I haven't used Tom's Hardware for years, it became apparent from reviews there that either they are monetized propaganda or very biased. Keep on doing your unbiased and fact based reviews and you will continue to prosper 👍
@@SilviuIulianWINNING WTF - "how CPU feels". Serious confusion here. Yes ASUS has the best looking BIOS but honestly how much does that matter? If you're not a hardware reviewer who boots into BIOS weekly then it's not much of an advantage over others.
As a new pc owner sitting on my second build I really enjoy this channel because I get to know which companies to avoid and where I can find informative content. At least, now I can know not to click on any Tom's Hardware information. I have to say, even as a new builder, as I have gone through multiple differing articles, I have noticed that Tom's Hardware does spread a very differing ideology than other forums with the whole don't think about it and buy it. Their forum actually led me to purchase the MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z and while it is a fantastic card I raised the question of differing rgb software and asked whether the software would have drastic differences and if I could make it look right. After much frustration I did get the rgb software to align well with my build but I wound up having to replace almost every other bit of rgb on my pc in order to do so and it made me wish that I had bought a more simple card rather than being worried about rgb, but as a new builder all I saw was rgb and was like, hell yeah! I can attest personally that the whole buy it and don't think about it ideology is going to be very damaging to the pc building community as a whole, because, if I hadn't been as tenacious as I was I would have just sold off everything and just bought another console and would have never been able to experience the joys of pc gaming. So that raises the question, how many individuals have they mislead far enough to a point that the individual gives up on pc building as a whole? Also, is troll their only form of insult. Not only did he call you a troll but he also called the gentleman whom expressed his opinion upon the fact that he felt that they were selling out with a response that he was a troll as well. Do they not know what a troll is? I mean I could easily raid their forums and show them what a true troll is.
Only seen this video today and funnily enough I have bought a Asus X570 TUF Gaming with a Ryzen 5 3600 specifically as I want to upgrade to either a 3900X or 3950X in a few years (or Zen3 depending on pricing). The setup does great for now and board and CPU are seriously solid for overclocking (4.3GHz all cores at 1.33V, as well as 16GB 3500MHz CL14 RAM at super tight timings at 1.45V). I would never have picked the MSI boards because of the detailed reviews I saw when I was making my purchase, so seeing Tom's Hardware posting this stuff scares the hell out of me as a consumer. TLDR; keep up the good work you guys, the consumers appreciate it!
Translation from Tom: I really wanted to write a hit-piece, and since I couldn't make it work as a hit-piece against MSI, I had to find someone else to attack.
I don't think you guys are trolls and liars at all. I don't always agree with your opinions, but you guys are fantastic. I respect all of the hard and honest work you put into your videos and I know you have nothing but the best intentions for your viewers. Steve, I know we argued once, but like I said I have the utmost respect for the work you do here and present to us. Thank you!
The work you did here achieved the exact result you could ever hope for - providing useful info to consumers and an impetus for a manufacturer to improve their product. Kudos. Got a sub from me.
I like the MSI B450 boards but everyone can see for himself that most MSI X570 boards don't have very expensive VRM and you get better value from the competition.
That is true. MSI B450 Tomahawk is no doubt the best value motherboard out there. However, that doesn't mean their X570 will perform similarly. People will speak by themselves if they are satisfied or not with a product. Let's see how long this guy can defend his hoax before he is forced to take that down.
AIUI from what Steve is saying not all MSI X570s have crap VRMs and they have designed a new Mobo with good VRM results to rectify so be careful or just buy any cheaper MSI MOBO (on special) if you only want to use a 65 Watt AMD 3000 CPU and don't overclock it, sounds like that'll be the best hot buy on a budget this cycle!
at the mid range, the upper end, the Ace performed in the #2 slot. So it wasn't all their boards, just their lower end/mainstream boards, which is probably what most people would go for in their build. At least the Ace isn't awful. >.
@@Ometecuhtli well Igor the former Tom's owner also, is doing a great job with Igors Lab. He also left Tom's due to more and more incompetence among staff.
Nice mentioning hardware.info, it's a relatively small Dutch site but they do some really nice in-depth hardware testing and one of few as crazy as hardware unboxed where they just tackle a whole bunch of products at the same time.
Hardware community: "it's shit"
MSI: "sorry, it's kind of shit, we'll make a better one"
Tom's Hardware guy: EVERYONES LYING AND TROLLING
So, WHO is paying Tom's Hardware off?
There's usually money involved, somewhere...
Just tell the truth, folks.
There's plenty of competition, and we as customers are NOT stupid.
@@bamahama707 Maybe a Retail Consortium? I expect they wanna make sure they can offload the backlog of boards.
@@bamahama707 ,
Toms Hardware got called out before for shilling for NVIDIA. Toms refused to even host AMD video card reviews when given the chance for FREE back a year ago or so. I stopped going to Toms a while ago, and while I know it's not all B.S. I'd rather stick with someone I TRUST like Hardware Unboxed, GamersNexus etc.
@@photonboy999 wow that's sad, I really thought I could trust Tom's Hardware. I thought it was part of the community as much as anything else but this is just unacceptable.
@@photonboy999 Which is why one must do one's OWN research, yes? I just finished building an AMD 3800x system, spent over 9 months gathering info. Now that it's up and running, still more changes in the works.
Are you lying? Stop trolling, just buy it.
XD
Well, this motherboard is supposed to be used with Athlon 200GE only!
Have your ever checked a laptop VRM’s temperature and power delivery
Tomorrow can never exist to you, how much do you not want to spend on a hot mono with crap VRM?
Buy today and never look back :]
You shouldn't start saying just buy it on extremely good laptops
So... Tom's Hardware is arguing with MSI's engineers themselves? The people at MSI were able to duplicate the problem, and Tom's thinks they know better than the people that work there?!
My thought exactly! Why would you not second-guess yourself when the company in question agreed with the findings??
Tom's Hardware have been worthless for years...
My first ASUS MSI X570 WIFI motherboard fried the IO chip to memory in a case with 5 fans and at room temp of 65 degrees.
I think the issue is the stupid placement of the motherboard fan for chips is UNDER THE VIDEO CARD, amazingly stupid placement!
My only solution was to get a extension cable to move the Video card to another mounting location and look MSI FUCKED THIS UP!
@@CarbonicHolyPally 65 degrees?! Do you live inside a glass dome in a desert?
@@Big-Siggi What temp is your house 21F below? 65F degrees is very low for most people in the USA most have a room temp set at 68F or 72F as normal range. Unless you think C is the standard in USA which it is not.
Steve, after years of helping people on the troubleshooting section of Tom's and being over ruled by super moderators that acted like infants who clearly were biased in terms of recommendations and felt like they were promoting products rather than genuinely trying to help ppl out i've given up on that website completely. The level of incompetence and shilling that goes on in their forums is just mind boggling.
Yeah. They just can't stop meddling the forum.
Forum is used to be a sanctuary filled only tech minded people helping each other, far apart from their articles..
When they start promoting strange people as mods, i know something have gone very wrong.
I've seen crap get recommended for their build guides all the time, plus there was one where one mod had nearly all of his builds selected, but his lists all shot up from middle of the pack to far above everyone a couple days before voting ended.
Exactly, I was an active member of tomshardware forums too, and I usually answered questions regarding pc building. But many a times the mods would choose a answer that was wierd, I mean costly with less performance builds were chosen as best answers by the mods. I always thought it must have been a silly mistake from the mods and overlooked that. But your comment now makes much more sense of the real situation there.
Well no harm done if by promoting some products they make some cash on the side, right?!
Yeah I too have felt the slide. I loved it 5years ago but now....not much they offer that others don't do better.
Tom's: "Liars!"
MSI: "Well, actually Hardware Unboxed are exactly right..."
I got a lot of things about MSI that anger me
but they get a nod for acknowledging this problem report
@@rwbimbie5854 agreed - I have many gripes with the company from back in the X58 days, but one thing they've never done is outright ignore a problem/not accept responsibility with proof. They've always gotten a nod from me for that.
Hardware Unboxed is FAKE NEWS! LoL! Waiting for Toms to say that.
Tom's Hardware: MSI are trolls and liars, too!
"Most buyers in the sub-$200 motherboard market will never upgrade to the Ryzen 9 3950X, and few will even jump up to the 3900X, and hardly any buyers would expect boards in this price class to overclock those processors. When you’re mostly after the basics in an X570 board, so you can spend more on the processor or other components, the MPG X570 Gaming Plus is easy to recommend."
MSI redeemed themselves big time by stepping up and acknowledging they messed up. Anything less than that and I would have avoided their products for life
This right here ^
Really? For life? Well what if Gigabyte, Asus and Asrock all did the same thing, then would you never buy a motherboard ever again?
I've never owned an MSI board before, so I'm unsure how they perform, but based on what I've seen on their graphics card lineup so far, including some experiences of cards suddenly dying after a few months of normal use... I avoid them like the plague when it comes to graphics (for AMD products at least, I go with sapphire every time I have a chance).
PERIODIC TABLE Sure we could - one regular person doesn’t buy motherboards that often during their lifetime, and you could get motherboards from several server manufacturers who could easily ramp up their workstation production. Some PC manufacturers even do custom silicon now.
ByAnyOtherName091 like paying reviewers huh
Tom's HW calls out HW-Unboxed and labels them as trolls.
HW-Unboxed: So you've chosen death.
The Verge: Finally! A worthy opponent!
NANI?!
Yes ok, the same old overused garbage "meme".
At this point, I'm almost starting to believe you "memesters" are just bots.
Seriously, its just copy-pasted crap.
They have choose to be trolls again, is not the first time they publish a shit article like this LOL
HW-Unboxed: omae wa mou shindeiru
Tom´s HW: naniiiiii?????
_"So you met with the head of MSI's motherboard department, and they acknowledged your critisism? Wel we don't care, stop trolling and just buy it."_
*BUY IT*
NOT
And by clicking on the affiliate link Toms may receive a small commision. LoL!
@@jharrison1185 maybe msi is playing both sides lol. Buy it but... Yeah it sucks.
Just shill it! XD
@@LegendarySkypenis more likely it's a retailer with a backlog of boards.
I'm new to this channel and I might have watched around 50-60 videos and I like both this guys (Tim and Steve).....Genuine content and exactly needed information.
MSI's response was great, this is what we want to see from companies, that's how, even if you get a bad product, you can at least not lose all your trust to them again and actually consider buying from them again.
Good job MSI good job.
Agree: MSI have very much kept themselves on my shopping list next time I look for a mobo (after HW unboxed & GN review - but still, the heart and mind is very much open to them)
Yeah but first they need to fix their VRM issues....
unlike some company, *cough* A**S *cough*
Yes exactly! Just probably because of that they have released a great board X570 unify for mature people with great vrm's solid features never running pch fan which I`m using for 3 months now.
Msi did the same thing with their cooling fail for 5700 series gpus. They admitted it and they have fixed it.
@@BlizzardWind99 *cough* last time i heard they blamed other for making failed product *cough*
Since the "Just buy it." saga. I haven't visited Tom's hardware site. I guess they are as good as dead for me.
It's been dead to me since they refused to review AMD's Kaveri release and instead they went for main article on that day with (drum roll please) investors suing AMD on inflated earnings forecast
Their forum is second most helpful after reddit though.
They're horrid, but the forum has had a lot of knowledgeable people. I learned how to build my pc from RUclips and Toms hardware
the forums are the only reason i use toms hardware..theyve had to many click bait articles based off rumors for me
Same for me, they're guna lose a lot of support and possibly investment over this and other articles.
Way back in the day Tom's Hardware was one of the go to sites for hardware reviews.
Even though the site has managed to stay active when so many others have folded it is sad to see what it has become.
Hardware Unboxed is a very good resource, keep up the good work and try not to let TH get under your skin.
no.
The original Tom has long since left the site. He himself has stated how dismayed he is at how the site has been run lately. It stayed true to its roots for a few years, but the rot began to set in slowly, and the site eventually deteriorated into things like the "just buy it" editorial, or disgraceful reviews like the ones discussed in this video.
Maybe Tom's Hardware is hiring people from The Verge to do their hardware review.
That would make sense judging by their "trolls" response. 🤭
"Needs more thermal paste". -Tom's Hardware
diversity hiring strikes again
Some of the reviewers are definitely, lacking, but many of the core reviewers are some of the highest level, most experienced reviewers in the industry and have been around, reviewing hardware, since before many of you commenting here were even born or learned to use a mouse. What's sad isn't the fact that there are a few weak reviewers there. What is sad is that there are so many clueless users out here without the least idea of what they are talking about but free rein to do so.
@@TheRealDarkbreeze so instead of addressing points raised in the video you throw shade at the community. Weak.
You know there’s something wrong when MSI themselves don’t challenge the “rumours” but TomsHardware does
When bootlicking isn't enough so you eat the boot instead
Watching Tom's Hardware for reliable information is like watching The Verge for proper PC assembly.
One of the best comments on here.. Lmao good stuff man :)
Tom hasn’t been at Tom’s Hardware in a while.. should be called “The website formerly known as ‘Tom’s Hardware’”
I disagree strongly with that naming scheme for one simple reason.
It's copying Prince, and it's the exact opposite of what happened in that case. Prince became "the artist formerly known as prince" as the label refused to release his own name back to him when he parted ways.
In this instance, It would be more along the lines of the label grabbing a drunk hobo off the street and giving him the name "Prince" and telling him to sing on a stage, with comparable quality results.
Tom's Hardware really has gone downhill, I given up looking for any good info from that site.
Agreed, Tom's has been hot garbage since about 2015 or so.
Yeah and they fired Igor as well, the guy who did the German version with meticulous testing and iirc he used to provide a lot of data for the us outlet.
If Tom's doesn't shape up soon, they'll die as a serious hardware scrutinizer.
The only 'tool' in the Toms Hardware testing was the author.
Not the sharpest tool in the drawer either.
🤣
I have exchanged a few posts with this "Crashman" at the Tom's forum, and yup, he's not too bright. He was trying making some argument against a poster about how AM4 wasn't any better than Intel socket life because of blah blah blah ... I can't remember, but he was completely conflating sockets with chipsets to win his argument. I very bluntly pointed this out to him (as I do), and thought "does this guy really not know the difference between a chipset and a socket?" Anyway he left a snarky response and left that exchange rather abruptly.
Love this kind of reporting; honest, transparent and dignified. Never seen Steve so 'agitated' but in the end he takes the edge off with a laughter. This channel deserves all respect for their work and integrity.
And don't forget that MSI themselves replicated the test conditions and got similar results...Tom's Hardware don't know what they're on about.
Yep that's what I found funny, toms is calling MSI themselves liars and trolls.
We’ve found the hardware equivalent of a Disnoid. You know, the type who tells you that the latest Disney movie is the best movie ever and you must be an evil person if you don’t buy at least ten tickets immediately - even if the director says “yeah, we didn’t succeed in everything we were trying to do here”.
just some liberal that got his opinion challenged, you are either a bot or a troll if you go against their narrative
This
Tom’s hardware needs to get off his knees when he see’s an MSI rep and start spitting facts.
I genuinely avoid Tw site, on top of the aggressive adverts even after blocking them (they still have in line prices things been inserted even with blocking adverts) my Asus x370 prime pro seems fine with the 3800x as long I have a super slow fan blowing over the board (need it for the nvme ssd as it heats up quite quickly)
I can guarantee you, he swallows. Nothing gets spit out there.
Pretty sure Tom left Toms Hardware years ago, this is just some grunt Steve is talking about
CrusadesOClock regardless if it’s Tom or not, someone wrote proofread the article and allowed it to be written. Specially when you have a company, stuff has to be checked before it goes up. They just need to do their homework and back up their research correctly instead of calling out people. They should have just told everyone that Gigabyte has a better bios than Asus at that point.
They get on their knees with Nvidia too. Remember they supported them as well on Ray tracing lol.
19:12 - "they used the wrong tools for the job, in more ways than one". I'm choosing to interpret that as an excellent pun, intentional or not 😂
TomsHardware was seriously offside here and this was a great example of a calm, measured response on your part. Keep up the good work!
The fact he tried to attack your credibility is hilarious.
THE Tom is not working at TH anymore though, since almost a decade
@@ObsoleteVodka Two decades. Tom left 2001. It was a good publication for most of that time, it started falling apart 2017-ish. Or maybe starting 2014 when Angelini left.
10:14
I'm a Dev, more precisely a Game Designer, last year I paired a 2400g with x470 motherboard, why?? For the sake of fking upgradeability and budget restrictions at the time. The plan is simple, go for a 2700X/3700x/4600X whatever comes at the best price/performance during the summer.
Just to add my 2cents with all the people that answered the pool, Toms has lost any reputation and credibility, even from the founder!
I literally purchased a gaming pro carbon wifi + 3900x when they released. After watching your original video, I ripped it apart and drove an hour back to the shop I bought it from. I didn't pay $250 for a board that couldn't overclock, I struggled to get it to 4.3 all core (simply thought it was a bad chip). As soon as I got a new board (ASRock phantom) I got that same chip passing cb r20 at 4.55ghz with 8000 score to match. So sincerely thank you.
Dark times when a $200 board is considered "low-end" and tested as such or obviously shilling is being involved here, take your pick.
To be fair.
The cheapest X570 board is around $150. $150-200 is what you would expect the top end enthusiasts boards to cost at a minumum... Otherwise you go for mainstream or entry level boards.
@@killerhurtalot Still more expensive than best b450 boards, which are quite often just better.
the cheapest good x570 board is $280-$300..low end x570 is shit, better off getting b450 tomahawk max or better..unless you're going 3900x or better or are just into extreme overclocking you dont need $300 board
Yeah... when GeForce XX80 is $699 and XX80Ti cost more than the previous Titans and Titans are well over $2K. Welcome to the late 2010s and early 2020s!
If a $200 board is low end... what is my $79 board?
Tom's Hardware lately have a small problem with some their articles... "Just buy it" - that's how it goes there, isn't it?
"just buy it" sounds like coorporate shilling to me.
It's just sad to me. A long time ago, Tom's was one of the best places around for tech news and reviews. Then it got bought by someone else, and now it's just a crap shill factory. It's depressing.
I don't know about lately but I left the site and community about 7+ years ago cause it was already getting bad.
I think it’s because with the rising age of RUclips reviewers they’ve seen a hit in traffic. Tom’s used to be the go-to for hardware reviews, benchmarks and stats but now there’s a plethora of RUclipsrs offering the same in a video format and As a result Tom’s has seen a traffic hit and is probably resorting to corporate sponsorships and shilling.
You mean **smell** problems? It stinks a bit. :)
Tom's hardware is a joke. It makes me sad, because there was a time when they were the go-to.
Yeah, I used to read their site a lot until they sold out. Rarely find myself there anymore.
Exactly what I was thinking. Been years since I read them but they used to be great back in the day
Tom's Hardware has been a joke for many years now. They said the same thing about Nvidia's RTX cards. Just buys them, don't think about it.
meanwhile Steve has been telling everyone to buy garbage AMD gpus LUL. Then retracting his opinion and telling everyone their drivers suck and NOT to buy them. He cant make up his mind which way he wants to go with all the cherry picked results. One day he's an Intel fanboy catering to the masses... a couple years later once Intel decides to get complacent he's an absolute AMD fanboy. Truly troll moves based mostly on youtube views I'm sure. Can you blame him? Drama makes for great views.
@@itsneight1260 Oh yes, because EVERYONE was aware at launch that Navi had driver issues before they even got their hands on them. Riiiiiiiight...
@@itsneight1260 Sounds like he's just a fan of what's good price to performance. Wouldn't you be if you're a reviewer on RUclips? That explains the amd gpu's too, hey they're really good but I'm not gonna recommend them anymore cause 1/5 of you will have driver issues.
@@ThatLegitBeast Garbage RX 5700 owner here always running the latest drivers and I've had zero issues.
Now *that's* my kind of garbage. 👍🏾
TH biased views towards Intel, and unrelenting AMD CPU bashing is what killed TH for me.
In his opening line of the response he even CONCEDES that he "didn't recommend this board as a 3950x or 3900x- specific solution because [he] has serious doubts of its ability to power these through any level of overclocking."! The entire schtick of the x570 boards is that they are considered a premium, flagship sku - and therefore even the most basic versions should reasonably be expected to be at least on-par with their B450 and x470 counterparts at similar price-point. I feel like MSI's B450 Pro Carbon could handle a 3900x quite....handily. If you're stuck for content, there's a good one for ya. Pit the x570 Gaming X (or Pro Carbon Wifi) against the B450 Pro Carbon rocking a 3900x and see how the comparison is. I feel like it would demonstrate huge disparities in quality *from the same manufacturer*.
Not to mention that the 2700x is a budget processor by now and quite the powerhog. That isnt even considered by that guy.
That's an excellent, well reasoned analysis. I guess that makes you a troll in TH's eyes.
Couldn't agree more! Underrated comment!
@@DeadNoob451 good point. The 2700X is cheaper than the 3600 in many places but it consumes more power than a 3700X.
“he who throws mud loses ground”
👏 Good one !
"We at Tom's Hardware believe High-end Ryzen is all lies, and we love seeing a motherboard that finally gives the fanboys and their over-hyped CPUs the garbage treatment they deserve. For your hubris, Tom's Hardware sentences you to throttling by VRM."
underrated comment lol
It's like they are stuck in Intel way of thinking. Every ( almost ) upgrade needs new motherboard. They haven't got grasp on what AMD is yet. Maybe 3 generations is not enough to get grasp of it; maybe they will get grasp of it in 5th generation xd Sad!
The 1990s called, they want their tech support website back
Given MSI themselves could replicate the results, are Tom's calling MSI liars and trolls too?
I was thinking that too
THIS
This is exactly what I was thinking.
They probably didn't know about the back and forth between HUB and MSI.
So to give you an idea on how this concept aged. I bought a 3600 with a Aorus Elite x570 last year, October. I'm currently trying to get a 5950x. So yes, people do buy products with an upgrade path in mind. The beauty of pc building is that this is possible. One could indeed build as you go, once you have the starting parts.
Calling the best hardware reviewers "trolls". Now that's rich.
Well that's how most media work they got a lot of free publicity .
For them any press is good press
"When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?
" And now this...
Tom's Hardware has become a joke.
Please tell me that's a joke
That's a quote from the infamous 'Just Buy It' op-ed, written by their editor-in-chief regarding the then-upcoming RTX 2080Ti
@@jimmyjango5213 - nope. It's still present in the article but slightly modified after receiving criticism. This was the original quote. They changed the phrase from "When you die..." to "When your whole life flashes..." now. Still ridiculous.
Become?
Analog Foundry, I mean it’s kinda edgy but I don’t see a big issue with it. Edit:referring to the quote.
I know Toms Hardware as clowns since at least 2008.
So many payed recommendations and shady testing.
True. When they started they were fine, but they became a giant and also giant liars, one reason: they prefer money over the truth. Never Tom's hardware anymore, that place should be shut down.
Yeah just buy it was always a great advise. But they recommend an i5 7500 over an R5 1600 with free OC, so what do they know?
They receive money from Intel (?)
@@DzinkyDzink Jensen's "it just works" xd
shit that's bad man like maybe for gaming but i am unsure about all round like damn.
@phillip martin lol, think again
@phillip martin did they specifically written "faster in Gaming" ??
Cuz i heard claim, fastest gaming pc, when i9 launch
Obviously Toms Hardware is at the very least on "The Verge" of Irrelevance
Hahaha, I like what you did there. That pun earned you a thumbs up
Thumbs up. Tom's Hardware has been sinking into irrelevance for years.
"Tom's Hardware founder comments on RTX 'Just Buy It' scandal, Aug 27 2018
"It is ultimately ridiculous, it is indeed suicidal ... Yes, this is madness, and good old Tom is scratching his head no less than you are, Steve! (Gamers Nexus)"
Thomas Pabst founder of Tom's Hardware, ex-Tom's Hardware.
you win, I will now forever associate Tom's Hardware with The Verge
What you did, I see it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Grateful for this and other MB reviews. Saved me from a bad purchase. Waiting on an Aurus Master in the mail now, for a 3950x build. Shame Tom's hardware did themselves an injustice in the credibility stakes.
It's two years later and I have to say, I love HUB and everything they do, but my MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus has been a fantastic board, don't know if MSI fixed this issue, but the consensus from folks that own it is that it's fantastic.
"When your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?"
- Tom's Hardware
I lost all respect for Tom's Hardware after that article. New ownership is just driving the publication into the ground as they exploit its once-deserved good name.
Just buy it.
"Don't think, CONSUME."
-Tom's Hardware
THIS.
it actually made me laugh
Wrong answer, when one is on a budget.
Tomshardware is troll now, they were suggesting a person to buy cheap chinese pump for custom watercooling loop as the user was looking to get watercooling for cheap price, then i suggested to get 240mm or 360mm aio that will look better and will be much safer than going with cheap pump or get better pump if the user still want to go custom watercooling for cheap price.
Then the mod who was suggesting cheap pump trolled me and banned me stating the reason that i was banned already and the banned was mistakenly lift. Even the actual tomshardware staff didn't punished the troll mod.
TBH, there's not much wrong with the chinese watercooling parts. My main build was all high end EKWB shit and then for my other 2 pc's i bought cheap aliexpress water pumps etc and none of them have failed in the last 2 years of use. Anecdotal sure, but if someone asked you what AIO to use and someone said "AIR" it's not that the answer is bad but it's irrelevant.
@@tonymorris4335 I feel like with the fact that most PC components are made in china coupled with the fact that Chinese people are PC enthusiasts to a fairly high extent, they would definitely have decentish parts.
@@AlucardArkaine it's on a case to case thing really, there are reputable chinese brands. People act like it's the olden days where made in china meant knock offs.
@@eternalzeero Exactly.
Alot are still knock offs, there are no questions, but that doesn't mean all are.
Doesn't even mean the knock offs are necessarily bad.
Tom's hardware got rather poor over the years: the quality of content is low, malicious ads on mobile, articles comments disabled because people used to call out their nonsense claims.
Agreed
Exactly my thoughts.
I used to be active for years on the forums a decade ago but I left exactly for this reason as well. Things just went downhill, it used to be an excellent site for enthusiasts.
@@SirChocula im in the same camp as well. Was highly active there in the forum till about 5-6 years ago when the ads started becoming excessive after the transfer from Best of Media to Purch.
The disabling of comments in random news/reviews and the whole "just buy it" issue just push me away almost completely. Once in a blue moon, I'll check the Folding@home thread and see if the guide has any issues and fix them but thats about it.
It was an excellent site years ago. It started sliding about 10 years back.
im sorry to hear Tom's Hardware hired the guy from the Verge :D
Bahahahaha
Why do white ppl never forget when someone of color makes a mistake?
Why do some ppl allways look for some BS. Where none is to be found. Allways making it abouth color.. Wake up. I dont care if he was white black blue pink... Was abouth how he done things. And fits nice to this video. 🤷♂️🙃
@@mobilemonster7681 it's not that, It's been years and Stefan (The Verge PC build guy) still refuse to apologies and/or remake a video. Instead he goes on and call people nerds and other derogatory terms. When he is the idiot. Like him you should check your facts before opening your mouth.
@@tomasjanok7806 Because it is about color. You know how many whites and Asians make mistakes as tech tubers but no white people call them out..hmm funny how one darker skinned individual makes an honest mistake yet he's criticized till this day.
Props for taking such a reasonable approach while standing firm for us about what's right. Also I sincerely appreciate that you were clear up front about the interactions with MSI essentially clearing them of wrong doing apart from making a crap board. Thank you!
Says a lot about a company that’s willing to take the time to replicate test results, send a big wig down to have a meeting, and then accept the results and take all of that info back home and put their team to work to correct the issues.
Much more then blaming AMD for general specs.
Asus: 😳
LMFAO I was expecting him to say, "........ unlike ASUS, just blaming AMD for everything"
Asus was really out here trying to blame AMD when they themselves had the buggiest BIOS for Ryzen 3000 series for a good minute there. Muh are gee bee
Yeah, but the MSI CEO has show a very loose tongue many times, no like Asus but very infuriated things.
Asus fanboys: bu... Bu... But my Strix ROG logo looks so nice!
Me, not a fan of any company and just buys whatever's best: *munches popcorn*
When u call someone a troll while u r trolling is a genius move.
Pro Gamer Move
"no u"
It's child logic. "I know you are, but what am I?"
Tom's Hardware has always been biased and Intel fanboys, gave up following them 15 years ago, they are like the modern news media, not worth listening too ! You guys should ignore them and continue with the great job you do !!
That's so true
CNN of the tech media lol
Since hardocp shut up shop the best place to get advice online are hardware unboxed and gamers nexus. Tom's has been bloody awful for years. Anandtech hasn't gone too bad yet since there big media buyout but not really a place for buyers advice anymore.
They were not always biased or intel fanboys. It was quite the opposite when Thomas (Tom) ran the shop. May have been before your time though. It is sad though what happened to them when he sold the company.
@@sor609 I totally agree they used to be a great site but maybe 15-20 years ago. Almost never visit any more. Plenty of decent sites and RUclips channels to fill the voids for us old timers.
Since 'Tom' left tomshardware, that website has become an AD infested joke. Almost all of the reviews I've seen on there over the last few years I consider barely credable. (Edit, grammer)
Then: tom'sHARDWARE
Now: UserHardware
Damn! Why I read it 'Active Directory infested joke'!
The forums are still one of the best troubleshooting places one can go.
@@Taijifufu nah, I'll rather go to Reddit r/techsupport for my pc problems than tomshardware forums. The mods are kinda weird in giving the best solutions....
"Just buy it"!
No one takes TH seriously anymore. I haven't read a review there in a very long time especially since the nvidia fiasco. We trust true reviews. Keep on plugging HU. I love MSI and still buy their good products, that being said, I did buy the Asus Prime X570 P this round because of the thermal review you did. First time I havent used MSI in years.
Honest to god I bought a Asus Prime X570 P at first and switched to an MSI x570 Pro because it had better features, it runs a 3600 fine. I got them both on sale for ~130
yeah use the site reference to buy now better watch youtube review like HU or GN. Honest is a hard thing now!
If you keep typing I'm going to eat every motherboard in this comment section!
I just switched from Intel to Ryzen 2600 with B450 Tomahawk MAX. This makes me want to upgrade to MSI GPU too
@@rawdez_ I wanted pcie4 so it is for me
I remember when Tom's was my go-to for reliable PC hardware reviews and testing. That was a LONG time ago. I'm glad we have channels like this to fill the void very well. Kudos!
Hi, can u give me a hardware youtuber recommendation? Thanks
Hotter environments exist ... yeah. As a European, I may confirm you that air conditioning is a concept that is mostly kept to cars and shopping centers and that my room hits temperatures between 35 and 40°C on hot summer days. Outside of the fricking case. The air coolers are probably trying to keep the temperatures cool in a 40 to 50°C environment at this point. If the VRM can't handle a 20°C environment, how will it work in this conditions?
AC is common in Norway and I would guess in rest of Europe too
@@dubious6718 You'd be surprised how few people actually have an AC.
Here in India it's reaches those temps pretty easily with proper case fans and everything .
40°c is pretty common
And affording ac is much cheaper than being able to afford a PC
@@dubious6718 i saw a figure 10years ago that less than 43 percent of the WEST even has a refrigerator in their homes.
If that's the case--imagine what the AC levels of ownership are in the WORLD.
@@formdoggie5 Define "the west"? The west for us is America and I wrote Europe
You know you're dealing with a quality author when his opening line is "you disagree with me, therefore you're a troll" or he whines "I don't like what you're saying, therefore you're a troll", instead of engaging in dialogue to understand where differences of approach, opinion or results come from and to determine whether anything should be changed.
For me, Tom's Hardware lost its way a long time ago, and seems intent on destroying its credibility. I haven't referenced them for anything serious in ages.
Keep up the good work HU!
One year later I got the MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS. And it's temps are down to Toms Hardware range.
I wonder if it's a batch issue.
I love how even MSI themselves said 'yeah ok we messed that one up' but this guy seems to know better. 'Journalism' huh
Proof that good journalism includes peer reviews, sources checking, investigative works and a healthy dose of self-reflection in the face of criticism.
When Tom's Hardware called you liars and trolls, that right there is projection and deflection.
And defamation of character
I bought one of these x570 boards and it literally CAUGHT ON F’n FIRE! Not even exaggerating. My board created a flame near the VRM’s when i tried to boot it. I have experience building PC’s, nothing was incorrectly configured, it just caught flames for no reason. I freaked out, unplugged it from power right away, got my 3900x tf outta there and switched to an ASUS strix x570. It works perfectly and i’ve never looked back since. I’m mainly just happy my 3900x didnt get fucked up. But i’ll never get another msi board again.
Edit: it was the gaming edge wifi btw
Imagine being MSI, already tried their best in this situation, only to have some1 'advertise' their bad x570 boards for them. Feels like this Thomas is the actual troll here.
@Brandon S Tom's
That's my first through, they f-up, owned it, made corrections then when it's out of the news this 'tech white night' comes to put this f-up back into conversation.. Alternatively it's MSIs marketing department paying up Tom's hardware and it backfires.. Hmmmm....
FYI: Roman (der8auer) tested 11 X570 boards a couple of months ago and basically came to the same results.
same results as TW or HWU?
@@diegobahena1274 HWU.
addicTwtf more trolls!!!!
“Derb8auer rigged the tests, no question about that.” -toms hardware, probably
US fan here. You guys are the amongst the best reviewers out there. Keep up the good work.
Tom's calling X570 "entry level".
ummmm, we've been waiting for B550 for a reason. even at $170, that doesn't make it entry level.
i mean, there are 200$ x299 board. they are on sale and not new but you would expect to run at least a 12 core on it.... with well over 100W TDP. wtf do they expect. if i buy a 3700x i would buy a x470 or even b450... for a x570 i would at least expect a 3900x or a later upgrade later on to a simular CPU
Steve: Here are our findings on this board
Tom's Hardware:Don't ask questions just consume
I remember when Tom's Hardware was a respectable and trustworthy website, it's just sad to look at them now.
I honestly don't remember that. I've always thought of them like we think of The Verge now.
“When you’re mostly after the basics in an X570 board, so you can spend more on the processor”
Exactly why you don’t want the MSI board! Makes no sense!
I wanted to be able to afford a 3900X so I opted for the ASUS Prime X570-P thanks to Hardware Unboxed excellent testing!
Thanks guys
!
if you could afford a 3900x then you could have bought a slightly better board
NobleRaider2747 Plays He literally just told you the reason he bought a cheaper yet capable board is that it allowed him to afford a better processor. Are you even paying attention?
@@georgemorley1029 yes
i'm sorry
NobleRaider2747 Plays Ok, no worries.
If you were after the basics surely you would buy MSI's own B450 tomahawk!
The quality of the work over at Tom's Hardware has been on a long steady decline, and I say that as a reader of their articles for around 15 years.
My thoughts exactly.
Yeah, they were one of my go to place around 5 years ago. Tired to look at some reviews for a friends build recently and it was a waste of time.
Me: waiting for my new pc to arrive
Also me: sees this video
Me again: scrambles to check build list
Still me: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
i feel u bro
Same man mine just got here....
You should be ok so long as your not maxing out a 3900x or a 3950x with so.ething like prime 95. Throw some good fans in your case and make sure the airflow is good and with a 3700x or lower CPU it should at least get the job done. Would I buy the boards no but if you already have one its not the end of the world.
Narrowly avoided one in my case.
Had msi x570 gaming carbon over heated so bad just closed down after a few minutes of running returned to retailer, now running gigabyte x570 arorous master no hassle ,maybe just a duff board but first custom build not want to take a chance
Steve is using the same tone of voice he'd use for, "I'm not mad, just disappointed." 😄
I guess Tom's Hardware is slowly digging their own grave with the bad-mouthing again and again
*Tom's Shilling Hardware
Fixed it for ya. You're welcome.
The Toms hardware has been going downwards some resent years... it was a good site 5-7 years ago. Sigh...
Yup, that's about the nuts and bolts of it.
@@haukionkannel They've done flawed testing even 5+ years ago.
It's also interesting that German Toms Hardware which does really good and transparent testing decided to split and is now working as igorslab.
I bought the Gaming edge then looked at your reviews and then posted it almost immediately on both Ebay and then later on r/Hardwareswap and got it sold then bought a better b550 from you round up and am way happier!
I still remember the time tom's hardware was known for its long deep dives and in-depth reporting.
Sad to see a once-great site fallen so low again.
This has helped me become a bigger fan of MSI. Everybody has some screw ups, some mistakes, some failures, but if you handle it like a true professional and put effort into doing better next time, that’s admirable.
Unlike Asus
MSI and Gigabyte both have been doing a great job cleaning up legitimate design issues(shout out to ASRock for seemingly rarely finding themselves in this position)
In fact, it sounds like all of the major board brands are doing a great job from a consumer perspective - except ASUS...
I've always had a positive impression of MSI, all the way back when they were still called Micro-Star International.
MSI messes up more than the other brands, from what I’ve witnessed. However, I’d take them owning up to their shit instead of what ASUS and Apple, as well as Logitech to a smaller degree, as they never seem to fix problems despite them being reported.
I think you're giving them too much credit.
Keep in mind, they either:
Didnt check temps of VRMs during design and QC
Or
Saw those temps and said fuck it she'll be right.
Either case reflects very poorly.
it's been years since Tom's Hardware was reliable for reviews of hardware
Tom's Hardware: "You're just nitpicking and biased, I win, bye bye"
I read that in Dunkey's voice XD
This is the first strand type motherboard.
MSI has a little something for everyone
GAMING PLUS BAAAAAAAAAABEEEEEEEEEE
This gaming motherboard really makes you feel like you're a gamer
*Turns on system*
*Waits 10 seconds*
"Yeah these temps aren't bad at all"
I think they might have taken OUT OF THE BOX thermals a bit too literally :D (if you're not sure what I mean then it's a meme from Gamers Nexus)
Watched two of your videos and subbed to your channel , easy for me to understand a lot of the content not all but enough to make a good decision on my first new build . Thanks
I didn’t know that The Verge owns Tom’s Hardware...
They got screwed... with confidence!
News to me too. But that would explain a lot.
heh... WELL PLAYED, sirrah
@@Ometecuhtli yeet
"They used the wrong tools for the job (in more ways than one)…"
LOL that's LOVELY
Yeah...the main tool they forgot was the one between their' ears. Those guys would test the taste of apples by eating bananas, and report that prunes keep them moving.
I'm glad you made this video. They have been doing sketchy stuff in reviews for certain items for a while. If you really want to see some suspect stuff look at their audio gear reviews. Some stuff they trash while listing incorrect specs or review it without ever even touching the product.
Hardware Unboxed said they will address Toms Hardware’s claim in a light manner... then casually rips them a new one and exposes them as a bunch of amateurs. TheVerge2020
MMXIII • should this video be reported and considered rape? Because TH took it hard.
@@odinsplaygrounds
D e m o n i t i z e d
@@joeykeilholz925 Demonized
Common Steve. They are the people who did the “Just Buy It” when Nvidia release the RTX cards.
Now whats wrong with rtx cards?
@@filippetrovic845 everything. Were you sleeping for last year?
Linus Vacuum Tips they said just buy it before it was even out
@@HumanWreckage89 everything? At least the drivers work
@@HumanWreckage89 Has flaws like any other product, but not "everything" is wrong with it. Also, if someone wants to go high-end, you don't buy AMD because they don't even have high end yet.
Are you going to tell me that rtx is useless, so just buy a 1080Ti? Ridiculous
I have an MSI Gaming Plus motherboard matched with a Ryzen 3900X and have overclocked to 4.2Ghz on all the cores. My VRMs have never gotten that hot. I stressed tested my system for a couple hours to make sure the system would stay stable and it did. I am using a Corsair h110i liquid cooling AIO on the processor. It may be because mine is a rev 2.0 edition but I have never seen temps that high on my VRMs.
ah, Tom's "everyone that disagrees with me is a troll" Hardware
the most reputable source of PC part reviews such as "Just buy it"
"everyone that disagrees with me is a troll" This has become an insanely common belief / escape tactic in modern society regarding any subject. Politics is really bad for that, if you disagree in politics, you are "definitely" a "troll".
so basically, don't use Toms Hardware when looking for accurate info?
I haven't used Tom's Hardware for years, it became apparent from reviews there that either they are monetized propaganda or very biased. Keep on doing your unbiased and fact based reviews and you will continue to prosper 👍
*Tom's hardware calls Hardware Unboxed trolls*
Steve: "I'm about to end this man's career"
@Brandon S Tom's
What career?
@@PepperSnek Lmao true
My X570 Gaming Edge died within 3 weeks, sent it back and got the aorus elite
same here. cpu socket failure i think
Heard a lot of people say the same
Aorus Elite is a decent choice, MSI Dropped the ball on this chipset
@@SilviuIulianWINNING ??? Care to explain?
@@SilviuIulianWINNING WTF - "how CPU feels". Serious confusion here. Yes ASUS has the best looking BIOS but honestly how much does that matter? If you're not a hardware reviewer who boots into BIOS weekly then it's not much of an advantage over others.
As a new pc owner sitting on my second build I really enjoy this channel because I get to know which companies to avoid and where I can find informative content. At least, now I can know not to click on any Tom's Hardware information. I have to say, even as a new builder, as I have gone through multiple differing articles, I have noticed that Tom's Hardware does spread a very differing ideology than other forums with the whole don't think about it and buy it. Their forum actually led me to purchase the MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z and while it is a fantastic card I raised the question of differing rgb software and asked whether the software would have drastic differences and if I could make it look right. After much frustration I did get the rgb software to align well with my build but I wound up having to replace almost every other bit of rgb on my pc in order to do so and it made me wish that I had bought a more simple card rather than being worried about rgb, but as a new builder all I saw was rgb and was like, hell yeah! I can attest personally that the whole buy it and don't think about it ideology is going to be very damaging to the pc building community as a whole, because, if I hadn't been as tenacious as I was I would have just sold off everything and just bought another console and would have never been able to experience the joys of pc gaming. So that raises the question, how many individuals have they mislead far enough to a point that the individual gives up on pc building as a whole? Also, is troll their only form of insult. Not only did he call you a troll but he also called the gentleman whom expressed his opinion upon the fact that he felt that they were selling out with a response that he was a troll as well. Do they not know what a troll is? I mean I could easily raid their forums and show them what a true troll is.
I call Tom's Hardware went full "Verge".
The Verge: Finally! A worthy opponent!
And you never go full 'Verge".
Tom's Hardware has Become the Verge 2020!!
That a happened over 5-8 years ago
Only seen this video today and funnily enough I have bought a Asus X570 TUF Gaming with a Ryzen 5 3600 specifically as I want to upgrade to either a 3900X or 3950X in a few years (or Zen3 depending on pricing). The setup does great for now and board and CPU are seriously solid for overclocking (4.3GHz all cores at 1.33V, as well as 16GB 3500MHz CL14 RAM at super tight timings at 1.45V). I would never have picked the MSI boards because of the detailed reviews I saw when I was making my purchase, so seeing Tom's Hardware posting this stuff scares the hell out of me as a consumer. TLDR; keep up the good work you guys, the consumers appreciate it!
So MSI was able to replicate your results right? So Toms Hardware is calling MSI liars too. LOL
Yup. Toms hardware is claiming msi a liar too. HAHAHAHA
Translation from Tom: I really wanted to write a hit-piece, and since I couldn't make it work as a hit-piece against MSI, I had to find someone else to attack.
Thanks, for some reason Google Translate didnt work for the Tom's Shilling Hardware language this time.
I don't think you guys are trolls and liars at all. I don't always agree with your opinions, but you guys are fantastic. I respect all of the hard and honest work you put into your videos and I know you have nothing but the best intentions for your viewers. Steve, I know we argued once, but like I said I have the utmost respect for the work you do here and present to us. Thank you!
the last 15 years Tom's Hardware is almost a joke, well still is
Exactly - I can't understand all the comments around here of "I gave up on TH 5 years ago.."
It's been shit for a lot longer than that! :)
I used to love that site back when Tom was actually there. Now its just tech advertising arm.
Tom's Hardware are being removed from my bookmarks. Great work
The work you did here achieved the exact result you could ever hope for - providing useful info to consumers and an impetus for a manufacturer to improve their product. Kudos. Got a sub from me.
I like the MSI B450 boards but everyone can see for himself that most MSI X570 boards don't have very expensive VRM and you get better value from the competition.
That is true. MSI B450 Tomahawk is no doubt the best value motherboard out there. However, that doesn't mean their X570 will perform similarly. People will speak by themselves if they are satisfied or not with a product. Let's see how long this guy can defend his hoax before he is forced to take that down.
AIUI from what Steve is saying not all MSI X570s have crap VRMs and they have designed a new Mobo with good VRM results to rectify so be careful or just buy any cheaper MSI MOBO (on special) if you only want to use a 65 Watt AMD 3000 CPU and don't overclock it, sounds like that'll be the best hot buy on a budget this cycle!
at the mid range, the upper end, the Ace performed in the #2 slot. So it wasn't all their boards, just their lower end/mainstream boards, which is probably what most people would go for in their build. At least the Ace isn't awful. >.
Wonder what they are thinking. They have good 2nd gen am4 boards yet fail on the 3rd gen. Even their msi b450i gaming plus ac is a very good one
No, the Unify is awesome!
Tom's Hardware died when the founder left and sold it...
Tom is Hardworn out at this point.
Thomas Pabst is the only Tom's Hardware to me.
@@Ometecuhtli well Igor the former Tom's owner also, is doing a great job with Igors Lab. He also left Tom's due to more and more incompetence among staff.
Nice mentioning hardware.info, it's a relatively small Dutch site but they do some really nice in-depth hardware testing and one of few as crazy as hardware unboxed where they just tackle a whole bunch of products at the same time.
The fact that MSI have confirmed the temps, makes THW findings irrelevant.