How long does a Tesla battery last? My Tesla is losing range!
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- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2019
- How Long Does A Tesla Battery Last? While I've been seeing a lot of rated range loss on my Tesla Model 3 battery pack, I'm not worried. I’ve partnered with the developer of Stats to take a look at some real world data. Tesla batteries will last a very long time, but there's more to this than you might think.
Special thanks to my user stand-ins at the beginning of the video: Sean Ferrell, Frank Nunez, and Jeff Somers.
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Undecided with Matt Ferrell hey Matt love your channel and it seems like everybody is talking about charging and battery‘s. I ran into a tesla mechanic at a supercharger and was able to ask him a couple of questions and he says tesla regrets ever putting the miles on there they wish they would’ve just stuck to the percentage. He also said that if your battery charges all the way and says 100% then there is no degradation and when there is if you have a 5% degradation it will only charge to 95% and then say charge complete
Thanks for watching and for sharing that info! I’ve heard the same exact thing, but haven’t been able to confirm it. The rated range in the upper corner of the screen really is misleading. The estimated range on the energy screen while you’re driving is the accurate one to look at ... and really the only thing you should care about on a trip.
Undecided with Matt Ferrell i’m sure tesla wishes they would’ve just stuck with the percentage number. I bet they get thousands of calls a day about people worried about their batteries thanks again for the great channel Matt. And I know that model S and a couple of the exes had battery issues but these model threes have a new really outstanding battery system
Can Tesla makes portable chargers for longer trips? There are ways around the problem.
If you're going to be at Fully Charged, be sure not to stay very long. I've heard that staying at 100% SOC is tough on the pack.
Hahahaha.
Its fine! Just move closer to work every year
@jonny5777: Ha, ha, ha, ha, .....
😂🤣😂
If only! but here in California ya better win the lottery to do that lol
final step: sleeping bag under the desk
I say working from home would be the best solution by the 8-th year
I've had my Model 3 for about 1 year. A software update increased the range some, which more than compensated for any degradation. Over that one year, the range increased from 310 miles to 315 miles. So I'm not worried.
Something to keep in mind: battery replacement is a thing that happens years in the future (else it is covered by warranty) and the future tends to be different than the present.
Battery tech is rapidly improving energy density (range), power density (acceleration and recharge rate), and cost. So even if I need to replace it in 5 years, at that time it will probably only cost about $2,000, and that price would probably buy me an upgrade to a 400 mile battery that would never need to be replaced again.
Incidentally, I recently performed the annual maintenance all by myself. And me not even a mechanic! I'm very proud of myself. This consisted of adding windshield wiper fluid and topping off the tire pressure to 43psi.
Don't hold your breath on 2000$ battery in 5 years. The current battery pack costs roughly 8-10,000$ to produce. No way will Tesla be able to make 80% improvement in 5 years. If anything, you can expect 30% tops, so 7-8000$ asking price is more realistic
@@marcusbiller867 .......Well it seems to me. reading all the battery articles in news and ALL the videos on here.........that there will be some that will be taking the Tesla battery packs apart..........and ONLY replacing the weak or bad batteries, then putting the pack back in car. Can do that now with a Prius, with replacing the battery cells that is different than the Lithium cells in Tesla...........So yeah, that will be a much less costly thing to do.........as most of the cells will be good for 400,000 miles ..........which will take the avg person 20 + years to achieve ...........Many has taken the wrecked Tesla's battery packs apart and just selling the (4) battery packs out and selling them 1 at a time..........Many is buying those for Solar battery home units.........
@@randyhiggins1563 No can't do. The Model 3 batterie modules are not "modular" - they are glued together. There are "unboxing" videos out there. If anything you can hope to find salvaged batteries from crashes, but even then you are looking at at least 10,000$(they wanna make money too).
If you keep the battery nice and tidy and treat it well, you should be fine for at least 150-200,000 miles. Most other cars will need engine replacement or sometimes 2 by that time and this costs anywhere between 3-5000$
@@marcusbiller867 ..........Well you are talking more about CURRENT conditions of batteries and available used(Wrecked) . I am referring to a few years goes by and you will find the batteries more available with the amount of Mod 3's that will be sold by then......... If you change oil and maintain a gas car that is even a few years old currently...........can get much more than 200,000 miles............but whatever.........I know the Honda's and Toyota's are easily getting 300,000 + , So expect most Tesla's to get 500,000 .......and again..........the FUTURE of battery cells is much cheaper and BETTER..........so years from now will have more options anyway..........Not sure when the cells for Mod 3 will be changed though.........but they are supposed to make parts available for 10 years in US............so maybe someone will be producing some replacement batteries for a long time.........Yes, Have seen ALL the Tesla battery video's and read every day all the Tesla articles...........Is good that it helps the Brand to NOT have to buy ads for now............As you say, many more will KNOW how to rebuild themselves the battery packs, with swapping out the Modules inside the larger pack ........or even opening the Modules to find the individual cells that is bad..............
@@randyhiggins1563 Show me a newer car that can do 200,000miles. There are a few old mercedes C classes that can do that. Most newer downsized petrol cars break down after 70,000-100,000 miles. I know of cases of BMWs that die after only 50,000miles (bought brand new) after 3 years and BMW doesn't do shit. Some diesel cars can do the 200,000 if they are not driven daily short distances, but diesel is dead anyways. So no, 200,000 miles on ICE engine - nearly impossible nowadays and in the future.
I have a second hand 2014 model S 85. And the battery is fine . I charger it no more then 78 % and I get 285 km or so Recharge between 60 and 80 km . as the man said just enjoy it.
@Cristopher Reeves Such a moronic comment. The range required on a car is the range to take you from point A to point B. If I drive any car 50 miles in a day, it makes zero difference when I reach my destination if the remaining range is 5 miles or 500 miles. Since most electric cars are charged every night, driving a car 50 miles each day simply requires you to have a range of over 50 miles each day. Stephen is charging replacing his 60 to 80Km of range each time and using about 25% to 30% of available range or so.
When he reaches his destination, it makes zero difference whether he has 200Km left over or 2000Km left over. Should be pretty obvious, but maybe way over your head.
@Cristopher Reeves He has to wait a very long time if he treats his car well... Like every car in existence
Cristopher Reeves idk about Tesla’s design personally but I feel this video did a poor job explaining why car battery’s and phone battery are so different first how there a few factors that matter to battery’s that is how many cycles it went though and how charged it was at said cycles. You aren’t charging and killing your telsa battery every single day but we are all doing that to our phones pushing them not only to there limit but doing 1000+ charge cycles b4 they drop telsa model 3 lower model has a range of 220miles by the time you hit 1000 cycles your already at 220,000 miles on the car... then top that often they have safe limits that phones remove Bc cars are meant to last ppl normally don’t carry a phone for more then 2 years. Now age in car battery’s will take its toll however I’m not aware of any company trying to push a battery for 15 years b4 it got cycled out anyway so only time will tell on that front.
Cristopher Reeves also Electric engines are much more simple then gas powered engines. If telsa kept the design super simple idk.
@Cristopher Reeves The battery pack is under a 8 year warranty, and is forecast to last 500,000 miles and 15 to 20 years.
If I have to replace it after 10 years, I actually wouldn't even be disappointed. As far as all the "other complicated parts", EV's are inherently far simpler and far more reliable than gas cars, so that simply isn't happening.
All electric is a failure??? Is that the reason all major automakers are spending several hundred Billion dollars on EV's? Because they are a failure???
Sure. Whatever you tell yourself....
Charge it, drive it and enjoy.
"your mileage may vary"
It will last a long long time.
@Cristopher Reeves Driving an electric vehicle costs about ⅓ of the cost of gasoline to fuel it. EVs save money on fuel. As far as the grid is concerned it is getting cleaner every year as more coal fired power plants shut down and are replaced with clean wind and solar energy. EVs are just better technology. No noise, no emissions, less fuel costs and less maintenance costs.
@Cristopher Reeves What do you know.
@Cristopher Reeves there is nuclear too beside wind and solar when ev charge time is less than 5 min it will be real Challenger for gas cars
Ron F You might wanna get a reality check if you think diesel is worse then recycling used batteries. That job will kill you of cancer faster then anything else. You want clean? Ride a bike
@Cristopher Reeves cost me 23 bucks a month so NO you are once again wrong
Great video Matt as always. I always enjoy your data first method and you don't hype it as others do. As a Tesla Model 3 owner and Nissan Leaf owner I find myself keeping an eye on the Leaf SOH% quite often but the Model 3 not at all. I'm in FL and the Leaf's don't do well when the packs are at 115F like it gets here during our 9-10 month summers. It's funny we really love the 2012 Leaf and know the end of the road is coming, sometime, because it's inevitable. But never think of the Tesla in that frame of mind. Keep up the good work!!
Very informative! Appreciate your hard work in sharing this info.
Very professional videos! Thanks for all of the info!
I set my M3 to percentage instead of kilometres. Problem no longer visible....
Out of sight, out of mind.
A few others have suggested the same thing. I like it!
Paul Jansen - Kinda like putting electrical tape on the check engine light indicator... Problem solved. LOL maybe an IM to Teslanomics and Ben Sullins to get a real world assessment.
The Biker Bug hey buddy glad to see you involved in the discussion but that is a terrible analogy putting tape on the check engine light means covering a known problem although I’m sure you were being sarcastic. Mileage varies because of so many different factors imagine if your regular vehicle did not have a fuel gauge I just told you how many miles you were going to get, I’m talking about a little bit older cars because I think the newer ones do that as well mileage varies too much Because of tons of different factors you keep it on percentage when your battery has a 1% degradation it will then say charging complete 99%. That’s the way they intended it to be but then some jackass decided to throw the miles on their
If only that "fix" would get me to my destination without an extra charge session, I'd be all over it. But showing percentage doesn't fix my *actual* loss of pack capacity and range. Now more than ever I need the assistance of the range gauge.
Thanks Matt for another great video. My M3 range seems to fluctuate depending on software updates and how I've been driving it. My first electric car, a Nissan Leaf, it's range was all over the place. Just charge, drive and enjoy.
Thanks! Sounds like you’re seeing basically what I’m seeing (fluctuations). Words to live by ... charge, drive, and enjoy.
Finally looked this up. Been so curious. Great vid!
excellent video presentation, complex stuff made easy, well done man 👏🏻
Amazing like usual.
👍 Thanks so much!
Model S and Model X owners have had the benefit of Stats almost from the very beginning. A great app!
Great video Matt. I been following you for several years & like your content. I just did a battery health check (winter months) on a 2018 M3PD & my battery life is now around 86 to 88%. Was getting 309 originally now at 289 to 291. Vehicle only has 33,000 miles & mostly charge on level 2 Tesla home charger.
Hey Matt, thanks;your videos are very helpful. I recently ordered a SR+ and already having a range anxiety even before I get the car although I dont foresee needing more than 120-130 miles per day. I have a nema 14-50 home charger too. Should I relax and be happy with my SR+ order or do you recommend I go for the LR if I can shell the extra 13k$? I don't see a dire need but appreciate your thoughts.
I thought the most often asked questions was "where is your Decided and Deciding channels?"
Love to be able to capture stats on my Kona when it arrives in a month, also on Android. Any way you can recommend to do this easily?
Yes, just light the battery on fire and fasten seat belt.
Hi, love the channel!! Just wanna tell my story...bought a 2019 Model X 100 kw on March 30, so I just missed the Raven battery upgrade (this will become relevant). November 19, this year, our cars main battery died...luckily near a Tesla Service Center. We are on our way to pick up Red 5 today (Model X Name) after driving a very cool Model 3 for a few weeks. They did replace the 100kw with a Refurbished Raven, and explained the warranty will continue just as if it was the original.
In my experience, dealing with the Sevice Center team has been amazing. They have kept us informed on time-lines and answered questions. Professionals at every level. I know of no other car dealers who will give "loaners" out the way they did...I am cautiously optimistic. But as you stated in the video, willing to sit back and enjoy our car! And your videos;)
Great video and great detail!!
Thanks!
Love your well-balanced and sensible approach, Matt. Keep up the great videos!
👍 Thanks so much!
I have been looking into a plug in hybrid. In my area in Canada the fast charging infrastructure is so thin that a round trip exceeding the range of an EV would require planning by chargers, not by where you wanted to go. That being said I looked a lot into batteries for EVs. I found basically everything that this video says. I also found that a typical Li Ion battery is good for about 400 cycles regardless of what it is used for. In some of Matt’s other videos he has talked about how far Tesla battery technology is ahead of the competition. But if you look at their warranties, they show no such confidence in their superiority. Taking the Canadian warranty for total km and the advertised range per charge, the Model X warranty is equivalent to 440 full charge cycles and a Model S to 380 full cycles. Basically the same as the 400 cycles typical for a cell phone battery. It all comes down to battery oversizing and charge management. There may well be some incremental improvement with respect to other battery design, but not stellar technology superiority. If fact, if someone drove a Rav4 prime exclusively on battery charge, they would need 3,900 full charges. While that seems silly not to take advantage of the hybrid mode for longer trips, there are certainly RUclipsrs who claim they only use one or two tanks of gas a year. Not sure if this will be an issue for Toyota in a few years, but anyway you cut it, the Toyota battery seems to have a stronger warranty than a Tesla.
Good luck. We turned our back on a toyota hybrid and chose a model 3 rear wheel drive. We live in the middle of nowhere and a 3.5 hour drive for oil changes seemed onerous. But they said oil changes had to be done by technician trained on their systems. Plus the battery was air cooled rather than liquid cooled. Mist keep that filter clean. I like toyota but those factors turned us to tesla. Ordered in November. Received in the summer. Very happy so far including trips. Very easy. Next hurdle. Winter.
I think what people forget is that I.c.e also go through this reduction in range, despite lubricants added to fuel. Many gas and Diesel engines see a similar percentage loss in range due to fouling, air filter clog, oil and any number of other items associate with a purely mechanical means of transportation. This also reduces power over time which e.vs have not been show to suffer from ,yet. So it's worthwhile keeping perspective on matters. From a gas car owner.
Fair points.
Thanks Matt. Very instructive.
👍 Thanks so much!
I know someone who is driving a Tesla for 5 years now and the battery is going great so far. Only loss @8 miles.
Not worried, enjoying the car, it's amazing! I do track mine closely as you do, love data!
Excellent info. Thanks!
I've owned many rechargable battery appliances: lawn mowers, weed trimmers, cell phones... And they all begin to lose ability to hold a charge, after a year or two at most!
So I've learned to avoid rechargable items whenever possible.
Thanks for the video. Didn’t know the degradation flattens out.
Range is a much bigger concern for those of us outside of California where most people who make these videos seems to live. My now 300 rated range is more like 200 in the winter.
This is problematic for long commuters. If my battery gets below 90% I’ll have to start doing full charges just to make it through the day.
Maybe buy a new Model 3 if it has a LFP battery (the usable range is 20% to 100% from Day 1.
@@lindam.1502 oh yeah just drop another 50k on another Tesla. No big deal….
Once again Matt, thank you for your invaluable insight into EV and general battery management. Your in depth research is in a class of its own.
Really appreciate that. Thanks for watching.
I appreciate what you said about paying attention to the numbers. I can remember when I got my hybrid, and the bar when from the one side or the other depending on your "efficiency".
I used to be uneasy when I saw the bar on the wrong side. I got over it.
as my name is my job, i can tell you that those people saying bad things about EVs are all 100% true. it costs a small fortune to replace an EV because you need a special license, tools and training as the battery is considered high voltage where one small mistake can kill you. the batteries are lithium-ion just like your cell phone battery which no longer is able to hold, maintain and recharge after about 4 years of use which most people dont notice as they keep their phone until the contract runs out and get an upgrade after 2 years.
I enjoy your videos, they are very thorough. I am also very data driven when I make decisions; perhaps not as detailed as you though. I have had my model 3 since April of this year. Although I did a lot of research, I was not prepared for the battery drain at night, during cold weather. I have worried a little about battery degradation, but charge up to 90% every few days, and never go below 30% charge. I have stopped worrying about my model 3 constantly at this point and enjoy it a bit more. Although I don't worry about it that often, I still think about it often, it's charge state, configuration state, maintenance, and sometimes long term battery degradation issues. In conclusion, I believe that my model 3 will last anywhere from 10 to 20 years, or however long it takes to get to fully autonomous ride-share technology; by that point, it won't really matter how my model 3 is doing.
Hi, Im planning to buy one myself. But I am new to EV world and would like to try it first if thus is for me. So Ive been thinking of buying a second hand, which mileage would you suggest I buy to still enjoy the car. I will not use it for long trips but just around the city, say 100 to 200km per day.
@@dragonslyer6858 Buy a secondhand Tesla. The oldest and cheapest is the best deal. Even after 150,000 km they still have a lot of battery life in them. See ruclips.net/video/IHz-Kx5h_Tw/видео.html. He says this in his conclusion at about 23 minutes. See the rest of the video for more details. Whatever you do do not buy a secondhand Leaf. They have no battery management (fans for cooling etc) and so do not last very long.
Hi, great video! I was wondering how you would handle long periods of leaving the car parked and how it would effect the battery. I travel for work and am often away for a month at a time. Would it be better to leave the vehicle plugged in and set it for 70% charge, or something like that, or leave it unplugged? If I had a preset charge limit, like 70% for instance, does the charger keep maintaining to that limit?
Thanks!
That's a great question. I don't have the most well-informed answer to it though. I also don't drive a lot since I work from home, but I go for days without driving ... not a month ... so a bit different. My leaving my car unplugged for extended periods and only charging to 85% is part of the reason I've seen a bigger drift in the battery calibration/rated range. When I've gone on longer trips for a weekend and charge to 90% and up ... things tend to realign themselves. The rule of thumb in the community is "a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla." The other rule of thumb I've heard from Tesla employees in the community is to charge it everyday no matter how little you drove.
It's probably worth experimenting and leaving it plugged in on an upcoming trip. I've been doing this myself lately. My car is set to charge after 11:00pm and keep it at 80%. Each day if it's under 80% it tops it up a little bit.
Guys if you have read the manual or the car you will se there at battery it say, Tesla recommends to keep the car plug as many as possible. 80% lock and plug. Simple when is possible at home for example and the car will take the energy from the cable and not from battery that why you kind of protects it.
I leave it plugged in and set charging to 50% (with charging timed to midnight). Like this the car feels most happy, charges only once per day with low tariffs and before I need the car again, I set the charging remotely higher to whatever I'm going to need, for the last night.
Undecided with Matt Ferrell Awesome, thanks for the great info! Placed the order last week, delivery in 6-8 weeks.
@@tomdue, Good advice. For Lithium Ion batteries in general that is good practice for long term storage. Charge to somewhere in the 50 to 60% range and then plug it in so it can maintain that level as needed. Having said that, leaving it at the standard 80% for weeks or months is fine too, but in theory something around 50% is considered ideal.
Best research I have seen on this issue! I have a LR AWD model 3 and I have similar observation as you. I consulted Tesla rep and their explanation is about calibration since I almost kept the battery between 20-80% for the entire time . My data point for the rated range at 100% is around 298-302 miles (Extrapolated from rated range at 80%, Odometer at around 15000, lead foot).
Hi Matt, 2023, I recently purchased a very nice 2015 Model S 85 with only 35,756 Km (23,000 m). The car has always been AC charged to 85% with only 2 superchargers in its life. I drove to my holiday house 112 km away started with a charged range of 346km, drove to the H/house and still had 244km range. The car is in near perfect condition and I simply love it. The only problem it has is the max AC charge rate is 16 amps. I will have this rectified in 2 weeks to raise this to 32 amps.
I agree enjoy driving your Tesla and leave the haters to play amongst themselves.
Thanks Matt, great video. There is heaps of evidence out there that people are worrying far too much about this issue. Even Tesla batteries which are hammered with very high mileage and lots of Supercharging are holding up very well.
Appreciate that. And agree ... people are getting wound up over it, but it's mainly because it's new. In time, this concern should die down.
@@UndecidedMF
What about weather. Some people like myself leave my car outside all year round.
Good stuff!
Here on RUclips is an Uber driver who only get 110,000 miles on his Model 3 battery before it failed. He was driving 300-500 miles a day and supercharging twice a day.
He was faced with a $12,000 bill and loss of income. There is a Million mile S which achieved that but required 4 battery packs and $30,000 out of pocket for 2 of the replacments -one came with the car one was covered by Tesla in warranty. How you charge; and weather conditions you charge in make a lot of difference to longevity.
Really great video and so glad someone has out this out there after doing some real research
Thanks!
Most valueable: Enjoy your car!
Range loss is not the main issue for large battery packs. In Tesla's thousands of cell architecture. One cell failure disables the whole pack. Tesla (and all other EV manufacturers) is charging $20k to replace the high capacity packs. They don't make disassembly, finding, and replacing a sub module (or simply disabling) the single failed easily. And it is dangerous facing the high current 400V battery that can kill if not careful.
I have a 2013 Model S, lots of 12-13 MS owners facing this now. Cost is $20k post power train warranty. M3 owners are still in honeymoon period under 8 year power train warranty.
Great video Matt. Question for you.......Do you think it matters how fast or slow you charge the battery in the car? Do you the car likes a high amp fast charge or a low amp slow charge better ?
Data has shown that it really doesn't matter. Charging the batteries produces heat. Heat shortens battery life. But to counteract that, the car has a battery cooling system. The car monitors the battery temperature 24/7 and during charging and makes sure the batteries are always cool and at optimum temperatures. For that reason, even Supercharging has not been shown to decrease battery lifespan in any way.
I’ve switched over to percentage instead of miles and I haven’t looked back. I have faith the battery will do fine. I also don’t do a lot of long road trips where I need to worry about how many miles I can go. Appreciate the info and data.
You should get it back to miles from time to time to check BMS unbalance at 100%> If you have a Model 3 and you are charging from 50-90% or even 70-90 will unbalance the BMS and you will loose capacity...
Found this useful. I’m a new owner and hav seen my battery health (per Stats) drop about 10 miles in only 2500 miles. I’m also in the low percentile (8) compared to others.
Glad you found it helpful! I wouldn’t worry too much about that loss ... and see if it self corrects after a full charge/long trip or two.
@@UndecidedMF just don't get close to 170k or you will really be upset... but you have the new cells so i'm sure you will be fine... I can't even get over 110 miles at full charge...
I'm in the 0 percentile with a 20 mile drop in 42k miles
Seriously! We purchased our Model 3 LR AWD 6 weeks ago. Already 5000 miles on it up and down the east coast. Love it. Coming from a Mercedes C300 the Model 3 is not a perfect car but the pros faaar outweigh the cons plus its an EV. The way I look at it, with Teslas recent acquisitions and current advances in battery tech, in 8 years there will be a substantially longer range battery at a lower cost that we will want to buy. Great source of info Matt. Thanks for your channel.
Nice! That's a lot of miles in 6 weeks 👍
By the time we need to replace these batteries and they're out of warranty, it shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is today. Thanks for watching!
This is bar none the best model three channel that there is! Big thumbs up here👍 being that I have a standard range plus my range anxiety started getting out of control once a full charge only said 229 miles three months into ownership then I switched it over to percentage and just watching it pattern wise over time it makes a lot more sense on the percentage part that’s what I would suggest everybody leave it on. I switched it over to miles for fun And put it up to 100% and this morning for months after switching to percentage it’s at 231, I will keep it on the percentage from now on range anxiety gone
Hi
I’ve lost about 6 miles (down from 310 for the performance version) after 33k miles. According to that Stats app. I only charge to 90% daily. I’ve done a handful of 100% charges on road trips. I also rarely supercharge. But I didn’t loose any ranger til after 11k miles. I’ve put 33k miles on the car in about 1.5years.
My 100% range is showing only 270 miles on my performance should I worry seems like a big loss it’s a 2020 with 15k miles
@@Malibuflatliner that seems like a big loss to me. I still have about 280+ after ~50k miles.
Would be interesting to see how the loss of battery capacity in EVs compares to the loss of fuel economy in ICE cars over time as their engines and transmission age.
Batteries can be rebuilt, people shouldn’t be worried. ICE cars actually get better mpg as they run in.
Totally agree, in the matter a fact, my Honda Civic has been like that, and for the experience I have, I also noticed that most ICE vehicles as they age, they tend to consume more gas due to wearing. Mostly blame on the piston rings that after 100k miles suffer some wear, losing compression, increasing gas consumption.
@@user-tb7rn1il3qAgree with you too, but that just applies for the 1k miles. As the ICE cars age, they become more like gas hogs
@@youxkio Nonsense. My BMW 5 series had 250000 miles when I got rid of it, and was getting an almost identical mileage as when nearly new.
ICE cars also tend to lose horsepower, torque, and oil (from leaks or burning) as they age.
Hi, great Videos! have driven from 0 to 18K in 15 months (T3 dual Motor Long range). I live in Northern Illinois and was consistently getting almost the rated performance until around November, when I took off the Aero wheel caps. Then the cold weather hit and for the last couple of months I am getting (rough calculations) around 20% less range in use (I use the energy % indicator mostly). The trips to Chicago and back that I used to be able to take with a 80% charge (with 10% remaining arriving back home) now needs a short top off at the superchargers at the destination. I think the very cold weather has a lot to do with most of the degradation (although Tesla assures me I am losing 10% due to not using the Aero hub caps). Any thoughts/ data you have on Cold weather performance (and Aero wheels) that you wouldn't mind sharing? Thank you. Keep up the good work.
nice data science Matt, thanks! Please, if possible, include more stats details!
Thanks, Yury! Any specific details you’d be interested in?
@@UndecidedMF :) I actually wanted to encourage you to add more details to YOUR videos, because it makes the numbers more solid and trustable. You already explain the axis, show nice visualisations (distributions), and you cite studies. And you manage to do it not-boring. Most of other RUclipsrs usually provide a couple of bars near each other, a few naked numbers without CI, tests or any other stats and if they show a single curve, they already celebrate themselves :). Don't get me wrong, I still love those videos about e-cars or sustainability, but more stats would make them more (again) solid and trustable. I like to play with data and I would be grateful, if you could recommend a couple of resources where I could get some data on sustainability in general and Tesla in particular. Cheers.
This is my 5th EV. I've driven well over 300,000 miles on electricity. I thought the Leaf dropped range quickly, but my year old AWD LR (13,000 miles) is winning that competition. It isn't just the range estimate that shows about a 10% drop, it is ACTUAL RANGE that has dropped. I can no longer make some of my regular drives without a mid-way charge. I drive the car well above 100% efficient (meaning lower Wh/mile that would be required to reach 310 miles), and I still can't quite make 280 miles. My lifetime efficiency average is just under 230 Wh/mile.
I've supercharged exactly once. I typically drive it no lower than 30% and charge no higher than 90%. Usual the car stays within 50-75% SOC, but several times per month I drive lower and charge higher. I've charged to 100% a few times for testing, and have driven it down to 12% SOC and calculated the range from there. I used to achieve over 310 miles. Now I can't get 280 miles. The car and Stats report 280 miles as full range. And Stats tells me that my efficiency is better than 97% of Model 3 drivers.
So in summary: I'm experienced with EVs, I drive efficiently and I'm nice to the battery. And I've lost more range than almost everybody I've heard about. I have friends and family with the same car of the same age, and they abuse the hell out of the battery (charge to 100% and let sit for days, drive the car down to 0 SOC) and the most they've lost is ~ 2% in the timeframe and miles.
As this is by far my most expensive car ever... yeah, it does worry me that it's losing range so quickly. Especially after the solid track record of the Model S, and where the 3 is supposed to have even better batteries than that car. I honestly thought this battery would lose capacity slower than the S. Boy was I wrong.
Tesla tells me that it is fine. And then reminds me that driving fast can consume range quickly. Gosh, thanks Tesla! Never thought of that.
(Battery compare tells me that my battery's capacity is better than a whopping 2% of the drivers. That was a depressing way to spend $2.99).
That means something is really wrong with the BMS firmware.
@@neutronpcxt372 You don't think that there's a chance that the pack itself is defective?
@@darelldd well if there is, I guess the warranty would come in handy. Hopefully you won't be unlucky and be just above the degradation threshold when the time period expires. If you're lucky, a warranty claim could mean you could get a newer battery in your ageing car, which might be nice?
Honestly sounds like a defective pack. I would push the issue with Tesla.
Oh and I heard that similar to the occasional 100% charge to recalibrate the top end of the battery, it's also recommended to occasionally run it down to just a few % to recalibrate the bottom end? Something to do with correcting any cells whose voltage are a bit higher, and a bit lower than normal? Using a slow rather than rapid charge in both cases.
What we all forget is all cars degrade overtime. A gasoline/diesel car's engine generates less horsepower as it ages. It also loses range as it wears and ages. One might consider thinking about how much an engine would cost to replace just as much as you might want to know how much a new battery would cost. The only thing I know is both are expensive.
Peter Najar I trust my 70K mile electric a lot more than my 70K gas car! I have the gas car in the garage and drive the electric every day!
@@ronalaska2472 You should. I’ve no idea what EV you drive. A Model 3 is supposed to be designed for 1million miles. It is most likely more reliable than any car. Most other EVs should also be more reliable because they have fewer parts. The only gotcha which is also true for most cars is software. With an over the air update, at least there is an easy way to fix software bugs.
Peter Najar Ice cars are more then capable of getting a million miles out of them. Only problem is nobody would buy them every year like car companies want you to.
The engine has hundreds of parts and the transmission dozens of parts and the oil needs changing constantly to try to keep it going the radiator fluid needs changing the exhaust wears out, catalytic converter goes. The pistons wobble and need new rings and the cylinders bored back to round! Etc etc, electric has one moving part rotating in air, the difference is obvious! Gas cars are a joke!
Ron Alaska You know what’s a joke? The fact you actually think pistons wobble. 😂😂
Well said as usual Matt, I stopped worrying about that years ago, love my Tesla BTW.
Our Model 3 | LR | AWD | Dual Motor | FSD was rated for 358 miles on a full charge. We often charged between 88-90% (320-325 miles) exclusively at superchargers during the first year. After eight months or so we noticed a drop in range to 310 miles at 90%. The second year, we began charging exclusively at home, and even at the beginning 8,000 miles later, noticed we were getting 301 miles at 90%, and when we charged to 100% (rarely) it read 325 miles. Approaching into our third year, driving a bit more and closer to 20,000 in total miles, charging to 90% reading just below 300 miles, fluctuating between that and 294 miles…
One of the main reasons we chose the Model 3 Long Range was due to the rated 358 miles estimated, knowing that elevation and consumption of the other features of the car would ultimately affect the battery drain. My only real concern for the future is, hoping that a battery replacement would cost significantly less, and the technology would also be considerably better when that time comes.
Our intention is to keep the vehicle for at least a decade or more. That way we have a better understanding of the real cost of ownership compared to previous experiences with ICE cars…
🤔
Even Elon Musk said that charging to 90% is no issue
My Model S has an 8 year unlimited distance warranty. Still have a year to go and battery is 97% original capacity
You may be the only one who’s range went up after the v10 update . I have like 20 friends with a Tesla & all seen a decrease of at least 3%
I had a 0.2kWh increase. It has nothing to do with v10. Get yourself a CAN reader and don't lean on what "people say" - v10 had nothing to do with range deduction, the constant remained the same and the voltage/A remained the same, hence no change
GKl Predt , but hence you got an increase? I avg 225wh per mile. And my car used to charge to at 315 now jus 305 . I get well over that because my avg is so low. I avg 335-340 for every 75 kWh I use
@@jimpalladinetti1994 No, I didn't get an increase. I am telling you that reading the kWh directly from the car some time after the update showed more kWh. This has nothing to do with updates, but with the cell temperatures and chemistry. What I am saying is that this update did nothing to voltage/amp nor the rated consumption you see on the energy graph. You loosing or gaining range could be battery degradation or BMS unbalance...
@@jimpalladinetti1994 Also, you certainly don't use 75kWh because the usable is just over 73kWh when brand new. To get down to 76-77 brand new you go below 0% to about 15 miles. But with degradation after a couple of months the total is about 74-75 of which you get 71-72 usable.
GKl Predt not on 1 charge . But I drove 359 miles avg 210 wh/mi and I used 76 kWh.
Hi, you didn't address my worst fear: the cost of a battery swap after 8 or so years.
The thought of paying upwards of 20k each 8 or so years to change the battery scares the shit out of me, honestly. This should be addressed very specifically, and not just casually mentioned for five seconds.
Thank you.
Great Video, and Great data! Another thing that makes me excited for the Tesla roadster is the fact that the battery is twice the size. Not only does this double range, but it decreases the load per cell, therefore making the battery degrade slower and discharge more efficiently.
Thanks! And interesting point ... and another reason I'm excited for the Roadster.
Perhaps true if you dropped that larger battery into a Model 3. But the Roadster will produce far more power, drawing far more heavily on those cells. We can't be sure that the load per cell will be reduced.
Darell Dickey, it will draw more power than the other Tesla models, but not nearly twice the power. Hard accelerations will only be for brief amounts of time.
@@UndecidedMF I have 2013 tesla S with 13000 miles and battery is still 205 miles when I charge 80%
43,000 miles AWD model 3 (OCT.15, 2018) Stats efficiency 101% better than 87% of users. I drive every day and plug in every night charging to 80-85% long trips 99% still handles like a brand new car no annoying squeaks even with listening to music at high levels all the time. It is a privilege to drive everyday. Still learning things and surprises in updates all the time. It’s crazy , most dependable car I have ever driven.
How many of you unplugged your phone while watching this video 😂😂😂
mana9013, I ran to plug mine in. I was below 10%
i leave my phones plugged in most of the day and never had any battery life issues. I think most phones don't charge to a full 4.2V nowdays anyways.
@Cristopher Reeves Wow, I guess you are just one of those brain dead poop flingers that has literally nothing to offer in any discussion. I'm sure you are loads of fun at parties.
@Cristopher Reeves Gay electric movement?!
You apparently have been spending far too much time on Grinder.
Hydrogen!?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAHA You are literally comically clueless. Hydrogen cars are ELECTRIC cars, just with a smaller battery pack and a fuel cell.
So, is your Hydrogen car then gay also???
And please list all the "superior" features of Hydrogen cars. Hydrogen is over $15 a Kg which means the cost of driving a Hydrogen car about 5x to10x the cost of electric cars per mile.
If hydrogen is so superior, why don't you buy a Hydrogen car yourself??? You can pick up a couple of year old Toyota Mirai with almost no miles for $12k to $14k right now.
Don't be lying hypocrite. Put your money where your mouth is.....
@Cristopher Reeves oh this comment explains it all... A hydrogen head! Oh man. You sir, have been had. And you think the EV drivers who can charge at home are the idiots? Lol. Good luck with those hydrogen fuelling stations totally coming soon... And not blowing up. 🤣
As always, a great video. I haven't given much thought about battery life in any of my devices. I'd heard it's better not to charge to 100% or discharge to zero. I have a string trimmer with a 40 volt battery. When it goes low it goes suddenly. No warning. Time to charge. It isn't completely discharged. When you press the run button there's still a bit left but not enough to do any more work. Can't compare it to my EV...because I don't own one. lol.
great video Matt. I don't worry about the battery and I just enjoy the car. I've even changed my view in the car from miles remaining to % battery remaining. The only time i worry about miles is the rare instance where I'm making a long leg of a trip and for that the car's navigation does a really great job of taking care of me and itself. 19,000 miles so far. I'd 'guess' that I have about 295 miles at 100% but that's based on TeslaFi and not a real world test - AWD long range Model 3. 76% right now gets me 224 miles per TeslaFi.
"Current Battery %: 69"
Me: "nice"
Why would I worry? It doesn’t change anything. I love my M3P! It’s fast and fun to drive plus I’m a subscriber so I’m counting on you to keep me informed.
awesome video ! what camera did you use to film this video ?
Thanks that’s useful to know
Thanks, Jeff. As always ... thanks for watching.
Matt, I like those fact based videos...keep on the good work...
Thanks for watching ... and more to come!
When my 2015 Accord is in the shop for maintenance I have been renting a S from Enterprise since I really would like a Tesla (3 not S since the 3 has more features). During my most recent rental I changed the battery display from range to percentage. My Accord's gas tank gauge has "F", "50%" and "E" and depending upon how I drive a tank can last me 640 miles (99% highway miles, after five years of ownership at 145k miles). I just look at how many miles I have driven since the last fill up and figure out how much remaining miles I have. Why not do the same with an EV? I would be curious if one sees the same range fluctuations (down to 20% remaining and I drove X miles since the last charge) as when the battery is showing the estimated range.
tubemonkey77 ICE as they age they put out more pollution and tend to develop leaks,Just look at any parking stall (Oil slick) When it rains were does all that oil,aintirfreeze,brake fluid,gas go? Plus with an EV you can pre heat in the garage with all the doors closed.
the cars have the same identical features.....
A S still doesn’t have door pockets nor does it have seat pockets for the rear passengers, the X finally got it with the upgraded front seats.
Granted the S has an automated trunk, but I personally don’t find it that useful - my 2 1/2 year old loves it though :)
So for a starting price of $80k I find the 3 more “attractive” (although I like the front of the S better :) Could get two 3’s for one S
@@tubemonkey77 door pocket and seat pockets for all your crap. who wouldve thought
Yep :) Glad the X finally got it as well...
I just started to use "scan my tesla" with a hardware peace that creates an ODB port. Works great and shows detailed internals of the car and BMS! I'm not worried because range is just a calculation. Anyway, I use %, not range. What counts, is what the BMS "offers" to the car. If the offered pack capacity is still around 75 kWh (minus the buffer, which is listed in the app as well), you're fine. I can highly recommend "scan my tesla". Otherwise, I try to avoid charging above 80% and draining below 20%. Doesn't always work on road trips, but for daily driving, it works.
Good job Matt! thanks
Same goes for my Sprinter. It used to last 2500 miles between overpriced repairs. Now it's closer to 2200 miles. I don't see shills complaining as much about my concerns.
I just drive my car and enjoy it I have 7,500 miles in just under 5 months.
Nice!
I love this video, i love that you show us the study and graphic and not only say it like “there is a study blablabla”
Thank you, Matt! You've greatly improved my understanding of Lithium-Ion battery longevity and best practices...
I wonder how much of a effect using the super charging stations have on the battery packs ?
They degrade the battery if used alot
Data appears to show that frequent supercharging increases battery life, instead of shortening it. It is contrary to what most people thought at expected in the beginning. You can see the data here:
electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
Tesla batteries store the kWh-total-chared info separately for AC (fe. @home) and DC (@Superchargers, Chademo, CCS). Keep the kWh on DC charging as low as feasible. I try to keep the ratio DC:AC under 60:40. Tesla has occasionally limited the charging power at Superchargers when the counters were over 80:20 on older Model S/X for battery protection.
I’ve lost 5% in 7months & 5,000 miles on my midrange M3 and I’m concerned mostly on re-sale value. Particularly if I sell sooner than later.
That's a lot.
Tyran Mathurin yeah, that’s what I think and local Tesla service is trying to convince me that, this is normal . Huh ?
@@davidhronowski5114
If I'm not mistaken, I think Matt (Tech Forum) had a similar problem. And I think it may have been a software issue. But I do not want to misinform you. So, check out his channel. I think he has a video regarding this same issue and how he got it resolved.
Tyran Mathurin lol, actually I watched his video regarding this. Thanks for letting me know about it though.👍
@@davidhronowski5114 same problem here. I'm at 221 at 90% less than one year with the car.
hi i am still confused .... some of your links like u showed above from batteryuniversity.com says keeping batteries between 45-55% or fr practical use is 75-25% and State of charge(SOC ) at around 40% and not below that during calendar ageing time(ofcourse never at high SOC) ..keeping soc at really low levels is also detrimental for the batteries but other websites i think it was researchgate says that to keep SOC at 15%..
battery uni says to keep at 40% SOC for 4% per year calendar ageing degredation where as researchgate says keeping it to 15% SOC for 1% per year calendar ageing ......
should i keep my battery at 40% SOC during calendar ageing or should i keep my battery at 15% SOC ...thanks
My M3 is just 4wks old and while I have it on miles rather than percentage, I am not actually tracking it. Just observing how my driving, the weather and phantom drain affect it. I'll be switching to percentage once my curiosity is satisfied.
I've followed Tesla closely for about 4 years now and trust their tech & their commitment to their mission statement. A car built for 1M miles & a battery built for 400-500K miles, and amongst the safest in the world, who can go wrong with buying into that!
I think the Nissan Leaf is responsible for all these battery fears. No thermal management spelled early doom for there batteries.
not to mention 50 mile range evs made for city use and people kept abusing them lol poor things
And which they knowingly did, trying not to inform their buyers (as if they and the internet wouldn't realize) to save some pennies, in the process damaging the brand BIG TIME!!!
@@Leopold5100 battery degredation was worse on a 20k car from 2013 than a 80k model s? gasp. it has gotten better, autopilot and appearance aside, the 28k nisan leaf plus out the door does gives the 40k model 3 some competition.
I charge my standard range + at 80% on 120 volts everyday (except ocasionnal supercharger) so the battery should be happy with that and I dont worry too much about degradation
I had this discussion with a few people and we all came to the same result - 120 vs 220 is barely noticeable to the car. Both vs Supercharging is a big difference but I wouldn't shy away from 220 thinking that you are helping the battery. 220 is normally 6kWH and 120 would be around 1.5kWH. Both are supplying thousands of cells so the difference to how the cells are treated is very minor. Supercharging is 150-250kWH so that is a big difference. Plus you are getting more electrical loss at 120v and it takes far longer to charge so over time it is costing you more money per rated range added. If you don't have a 220 option it still works but if you have it use it, you won't hurt the battery any more.
@Mark Shamy you are correct on the kWH vs kW, my bad. Line losses exist in both 120v and 220v but due to the longer charging times in 120v your total $ cost to put say 1,000 kWH into the battery will be slightly higher at 120.
Also, from the batteries standpoint, the difference in heating and pressure on the cells between 120v and 220v distributed across 4,000 cells is almost not even measurable. This fact came from several people I spoke to at Tesla. That's the two points i was making. In the end either way is fine and they are the best cars made, hands down.
It is more efficient to charge at 240V vs 120V (something like 70% vs 89%). If you can install a NEMA 14-50 to charge your car, that would be preferred. There is virtually no difference in the stress the battery experiences between the two.
@Mark Shamy Level two on a Tesla charger is typically 10kW in the USA, 9kW to 11kW in Europe. The Model 3 charges between 32A and 48A depending on the charger, which 7.2kW to 12.8kW.
Supercharging has been shown to actually increase battery life, so the claim that it shortens battery life is not supported by actual data, as shown here:
electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
@Mark Shamy Except, Professior Dahn which is one of the brains behind the Tesla batteries has confirmed the data as accurate. And the data is consistent, it is not an outlier.
He covers this in detail here:
ruclips.net/video/9qi03QawZEk/видео.html
Thanks for your information.
I have a 2019 M3 RWD mid range with 12500 miles normally used for commute to work 30 miles each way. Since new the max is full charge was 237 and now a year later 233. I being charging every other day to 80% . Now after watching your video you recommended to charge every day to 80 or 90%.
Did you thing that my battery is losing to much range?
Should I charge every day even in only 60 miles round trip and the car give enough miles to do two trips?
Please advise
Thank you for being scientific and showing things from a stats point of view. Your channel is the only one that has made me consider a EV for the next car purchase. Being a scientist myself I have concerns about the technology but you have addressed many of them by providing research that you have done. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Rivian R1T and Atlis XT come to market.
While I'm a fan of all EV's, keep in mind that each EV maker has their own battery and motor technology, so the lifespan of a Model 3 with NCA batteries has no relations to other cars using NMC batteries or other technologies. It is difficult to compare them apples to apples for that reason.
@@redbaron6805 it will be interesting, that is certain. Batteries is not in my field and i wont pretend to look like I know much about them. Looking forward to the next 10 years in auto industry
I enjoy the car. The range dropped after September's update, lost about 10 miles, but don't really care. Plenty of range, even if it drops to 70%.
Just a couple of points.
1) It is not holding the state of charge at 100% that causes the damage, it is taking the battery to that level in the first place. I've tested this by leaving leaving a cell at 100% for 6 months with measurable difference from the control cell that was stored at a 50% state of charge. A cell left for 6 months at a zero state of charge had lost 15% of its capacity.
2) Tesla does not leave a buffer at the top (except for the software capacity limited vehicles). 100% is 100%. They do appear to leave a small buffer at the bottom. Zero is not Zero. There are some RUclips videos where people have driven their cars until they stop and invariably this is many more miles than you would expect. However, don't depend on this buffer to save you! It is hard on the battery, probably the worst thing the car will allow you to do.
3) You allude to this in the video but the rated range is just a number that Tesla is telling you. They can make it say anything they want. If I understand correctly the rated range is for driving on level ground at a constant 60 mph under ideal conditions. Low temps, headwinds, road surface (wet or rough) will all adversely affect range but this is not reflected in the rated range display. If they decided to they could double the rated range by changing the speed to 30 mph.
I've driven my model S almost 90k miles in the last 4 years and I appear to have lost about 0.5 % per year. I have only taken it to 100% three times on road trips where the next supercharger was more than 200 miles away. My normal charge in the summer is to 60% and in the winter to 70%. This keeps me centered around the 50% point which appears to do the least harm to the battery. I drive less than 40 miles per day unless I am on a road trip which is why I charge daily from a 110 VAC outlet in the garage. On road trips I supercharge pretty much exclusively and have done so for probably 60000 of those miles. At my current 0.5% per year degradation I expect 20 years of life from the battery if 80% of original range is the cutoff point. By that time it should be easy and cheap to recycle the battery and put in something a lot better.
Thanks for the Video and drive safely everyone!
You appear to be slightly off on a few of those points. You have to charge the car to 100% and leave it at 100% on a regular basis to affect battery lifespan. Temporary charges to 100% case negligible battery wear. Your own example talks about leaving the cell at 100% for 6 months.
The range is not just a number that Tesla tells you. The rated range of the car is the EPA tested range of the car. The displayed range in the car is based on your driving history in miles vs energy consumed and is calculated using the built in range algorithm of the car. The range of the car is always calculated real time, so if you get headwinds, rain, road surface etc. the range computer corrects for that real time and displays actual range based on your last 30 miles of driving.
And testing of the lifespan of the Lithium Ion batteries on the Model S has shown that there is no significant statistical difference between charging the car to 90% or charging it to 50%. Since the battery life is projected to be over 500k miles, Since you are driving around 23k miles a year, it will take you over 20 years to reach the 500k mile projected lifespan, and I would estimate other parts of the car would be worn out by then, as functional lifespan of most cars is around 10 to 15 years.
This is a great video!
Thanks so much!
Nice , thank you so much for clarifying this topic. It's been always a concern 😉
Excellent video-I have AWD model 3 and model S 85 -2013 -I have over 132k miles on the S and degrade is very small -amazing how well these cars hold up. The 3 is an efficiency hound -I think early in cars life anxiety is high the longer you own it the lower that anxiety will be. Great cars -excellent service-very tight -they just work over and over. Relax and enjoy the ride. :)
Great video! My biggest gripe about the Model 3 comes down to Phantom Drain. Now that we are in the winter, I'm using 50% more charge than I did during the summer and also doubling the phantom drain every night. My Model 3 has gone from the efficiency of a Prius, to the efficiency of a Ford F-350 in terms of mileage on a charge (about 55mpg equivalent at $2.59 per gallon @ .22 cents per kWh to < 20 mpg). More or less, I'd be better off driving my truck in the winter as it is more fuel efficient than the Tesla with the insane Phantom drain. Just my humble opinion of course and everyones cars are different but an ICE engine costs you nothing when its turned off and my Model 3 is costing me a few dollars a day just in phantom drain when its parked in the driveway doing nothing. I wish there was a way to power down the Tesla when not in use similar to turning the key off in an ICE vehicle.
You appear to be confusing efficiency per mile and cost per mile. Obviously your F-350 will never get 55 miles per gallon no matter what the temperature is. Your electricity rates are artificially high is probably your main problem. Typical electricity rates in the USA are around 12 cents per kWh average, not 22 cents per kWh. Without knowing what temperatures you are experiencing in winter, and what settings you have on the Model 3, and what the exact range loss is each day, it is tough to tell what's going on.
But the usual suspects include Sentry Mode, using any apps to run statistical data on your car like Tesla Fi, and verifying the car is actually entering sleep mode when it is parked, and there isn't something that keeps it running when you park it.
As someone who uses the airport frequently and has to use airport parking I feel feel your pain.
Why would your phantom drain be worse in the winter? Cold poses no danger to the cells, they shouldn't be heated all night.
Mark Brand The best way I can compare it is to stick your cell phone in the freezer for a few hours or leave it in a cold car. Batteries just naturally discharge faster in cold temperatures which increases phantom loss. I saw another RUclips video about it and essentially it’s something about the liquid electrolyte in the battery and how it doesn’t move as fast/efficiently in cold temperatures equating to phantom loss and less power. I hear the next generation of batteries may be solid cell instead of liquid cell which will likely stabilize phantom drain but that’s future technology. I still love the Tesla, don’t get me wrong. Especially free charging. Even with the phantom drain, 100% of free is still free so find those free chargers out there and utilize them. My local stop and shop + town hall offers free EV charging plus I have solar panels so that definitely helps.
@@brettstone5287 That makes sense. There was not additional draw it was simply meeting the draw less efficiently
Great video!
👍
Superb Video.
Matt, please go back to the old intro music. It was so nice and comfy.
Agreed! Why is the new thing for every channel to change their intro music...? I'm not liking it. Some do it almost weekly. I can get behind every year or two, but...
I hear ya. I like to mix it up from time to time so it doesn't get to repetitive ... still figuring this out. 👍
Gudmundur Smarason I may have to agree with you. :) Matt, as usual, fantastic video. 👍
I like it. It’s nice to do something different from time to time.
@@UndecidedMF The original song is a classic man don't worry it's not old on us!!!
You are forgetting once you hit the half-life of lithium ions. Even with not many cycles the battery will begin to rapidly decline. So the slope of that graph will eventually get much steeper.
Which slope? The spec sheets on current Li-ion does not show that; it is very flat mid cycle life plus. Also, unless you have a 3rd party testing, the spec sheets only show high amp discharge cycle. Remember, because of the huge battery, you never push the batteries to such high discharge rates and two you never fully 100% cycle the batteries. So, no, I disagree its not much steeper. You might be thinking about the discharge capacity curve versus the cycle life curve.
@@bakotako This is nothing to do with charge cycles at all. Lithium ions degrade even when not being used regardless of their charge state as well. Its one of the advantages of NiMH batteries have is that they have a much longer half life.
@@bakotako yes Joseph is correct, the amazing Unicorn Tesla batteries will never degrade. Your reality has been suspended Daniel.
Daniel Blaney “lithium ions degrade”? What bullshit. Edit: Or did you mean “lithium ion-based batteries degrade”?
@@yarpos i thought he meant the discharge capacity curve not battery decay. i make high power ebikes so unlike most EV owners I actually touched a 18650 cell and design their configuration. also, along the OP post, i dont think the decay is that bad. i salvage and use "new" old 18650 cells and they seem fine to me. Maybe the hard decay is at like 10 years or something. I dont see it
Is this an issue with ambient temp? Has summer sorted the question and if so is the vid due an up date?
Very interesting and data-driven to boot. I find myself being one of those who “top off” my phone every night. As an electronics technician for forty years, I know I am negatively impacting my phones longevity, but I balance that against the comfort of knowing my phone is fully charged when I need it to be. If only I could train myself to keep it between 30 and 70 percent (I’ve also heard 80 and 20). I don’t have a Tesla, but I’ve been exploring the idea of buying used Tesla battery packs to build a DIY power wall and I’m seeing that replaced battery packs are still producing more of their rated output in KWh than their mileage would indicate, something like at least 80% (about the lowest I would buy, and then only at a good deal) and usually over 90%. This is from 7 year old battery packs! So, I’m pretty comfortable that the typical EV is going to have a battery life at least as long as the typical internal combustion engine can be expected to last, and that’s okay with me. BTW, I used your link to Energy Sage, and I’m in the process of getting solar panels installed on my roof. Energy Sage really helped me find a contractor that I can work with! So, thanks!
To add to this, my phone is one from 2015. Sony Xperia z5, two ways it preserves battery is stamina mode below 30% and drastically slowing down charge rates above 85%. From 90% it can last me a full day and end up around 50%, so basically it hasn't had much battery wear as you would normally have it, even with daily charging. If I opened up the service menu of the phone to see battery health, it is still at ~97%. No thermal management, no specially designed cathodes or anything like that as well as being 4 year old tech. Infact the phone itself will get pretty toasty under heavy use, as well as during the middle of charging (40-70) so I have no doubts that such a carefully designed and maintained battery pack of a Tesla would have no problem at all lasting for years and years. Lithium Ion batteries still have so much untapped potential
edit to add - I've often forgotten to charge it and having to have it start the day from 30-40% and drop down to 10-20%. I would bet between someone who doesnt care to or know how to properly manage a tesla battery vs someone who actively manages it properly the lifetime total mileage difference would be atleast 60%
My 2.5 year old Motorola has lost 45% of its capacity. My one year old Nokia has lost 4% of its battery. There's huge variability between manufacturers. Phone manufacturers could easily add the ability to limit charge to 80% for longevity, but they can't be bothered.
@@98dizzard Im pretty sure a few have that ability to limit total battery charge, Sony allows it as a setting for my phone atleast
@@98dizzard The reason is the upgrade cycle. Most phones are considered obsolete in 2 years from a technology standpoint, so manufacturers have had little incentive to extend the battery life beyond that time period. Under the contract system in the USA, you got a "free" phone when you renewed your 2 year contract, so people weren't taking care of their phones that well as they were expected to be replaced in 2 years. As the technology cycle and improvements slow down, this could change in the coming years and with contracts going away, subsidies for new phones are disappearing. This should mean that people will keep their phones longer, as they will be paying un-subsidized prices for them going forward.
My diesel Hyundai is 8 years old and is slowly loosing it's efficiency as engine wears out. No different to an EV
I should have touched on that in the video. We're all used to our cars slowly wearing down over time, but people are more on edge with EVs because it's so new and unknown. In time we'll all get to the same "meh ... whatever" attitude around EVs as well.
Great job. Very helpful. You do a great job of explaining many things.
What about Phantom/Vampire drain of the car itself?
And 2nd case with Senture mode on?
Thanks! And that's another good video topic idea ... thanks for asking that.
[Stats app developer] If you are interested in phantom drain statistics: Stats app measures your phantom drain and compares it against other users. I also hope that Matt does a video on this topic as well.
LessWire1 I love the Stats app, great info. Many people are still unaware that sentry mode, and some other apps, will have a big effect on vampire drain, as will temperature extremes.
Even checking your car’s state of charge too often will affect phantom drain, as it wakes the car up each time you do it- yet I often talk to people who don’t know that.
My 3’s phantom drain is under 1% per day when parked in my garage.
@@FutureSystem738 Thank you! I rely on users like you to spread the word organically. I appreciate your support.
Maybe I"m an outlier but I don't believe that people should stress themselves over squeezing every last drop of possible longevity out of their batteries. (Obviously follow the manufacture recommendations since you want to keep your warranty) Battery research and technology is advancing so rapidly these days that It's very likely that in 5-10 years time you will be able to purchase a new pack that is significant better (more range, faster charge, more robust in all conditions) while also being much cheaper. Swapping out your pack will probably be a desirable upgrade regardless of your state of degradation.
I really gotta know: does a battery pack at say 200,000 miles that is "depleted" to 80% original capacity require only 80% of the original amount of energy to charge it? Or is it that much less efficient as a storage medium, requiring the original amount of energy to charge it?
Thanks in advance (I don't own an EV - yet).
Battery loses only capacity overtime. Efficiency depends mainly on temperature.
A depleted battery in EV's in considered to be around 80% of remaining capacity when it would normally be retired from EV use. On a Tesla Model S, that number is considered to be around 500,000 miles, as seen here:
electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
The capacity loss is just that, a loss of capacity. So, the battery will simply store and release less energy, so it becomes full faster with less energy stored.