This DARK Theory Completely Flips Harry Potter's Ending - Harry Potter Theory
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Welcome to Harry Potter Theory. Today we’re discussing a HORRIFIC Harry Potter Theory that bears the potential to completely flip the Harry Potter ending on it’s head. It involves (you guessed it) our main antagonist Lord Voldemort- and a scenario in which Voldemort…*gasp*..SURVIVES.
Voldemort is defeated (at least markedly) twice in the Harry Potter story.
His first defeat was at the Potter residence in Godric’s Hollow, where his rebounding curse (thanks to Lily’s loving sacrifice) shot back at him and ripped his soul from his destroyed body. This marked the (temporary) end of Voldemort, and the end of the First Wizarding War.
But Voldemort certainly wasn’t done- oh no no.
In 1995 Voldemort made his resurgence, more motivated than ever to take back control of the Wizarding World and get revenge on the boy who had defeated him.
However, this didn’t work out too well for him either, as shown in his final showdown with Harry during the Battle of Hogwarts.
And after this final fated duel, it’s generally accepted that Voldemort was dead. In the films, Voldemort’s body broke off in to thousands of pieces and vanished in to nothing, and in the books the former dark-lord was reduced to a corpse just like anyone else.
Eventually, after all of the dust has settled, Voldemort’s body is moved in to a resting Chamber within the walls of Hogwarts- something that the films fail to mention altogether. It’s here- somewhere entirely unspecified within the castle- that Voldemort purportedly lay for the remainder of eternity.
Or…DID HE?
The theory that I want to put forth today suggests that Voldemort, by way of- you guessed it- HORCRUXES- was able to survive.
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Thanks for watching all! This was fun to discuss. What do you think? Plausible or not? Did I overlook something obvious? Comment down below!
I think maybe if such a soul piece still existed it moved from Harry to his child maybe even being able to restore it into a complete soul imean his son even looks just like young Tom riddle
Second
That theory is an idea I came up with for a character I imagined in Stranger Things. There was a darkness in another character that had powers like El, except far stronger, and later, it would take control of him.
I though you were going more with "blood in his veins" isn't it strange that Lilly love for Harry was in Voldemort but it didnt help him survive? And that they take Voldemort body to Hogwart ... No buried or burn? But to place more save than Gringot bank? Why? ... But if he is still alive... The most powerful wizard nobody can kill ... Wouldnt be logical to have eye on him? In prison with propably most powerful wizards as guards! What i say is ... Meaby he is still alive, cant be killed but still to weak to be dengerous ... At least for now.
harry went to limbo because he died he only came back because he had the resurrection stone and Voldemort took his place because the last piece of him died instead of harry because the stone brought him back
As absurd as this theory is in reality, it would still be a better sequel than the cursed child
I think cursed child would be good af tho
@@DeadLogic-bm8rj it could be, but it needs to be modified... A lot
Yeah... completely changing the way time turner's worked really damaged the plot
Personally I wish j.k. Rawling would do a series on that. Voldemorts child. Both she and Voldemorts mother used a love potion on their fathers. Plus if Voldemort has a child, maybe the legacy can continue.
Why do people hate it. It's more about the kids than anything.
Actually this falls apart when you read that after he came back from death Harry could now no longer talk to snakes. Which means the part of Voldy inside of him that made that possible was actually gone
Thanks for pointing this out! Makes sense.
Yet Ron could spesk snake even if only a literal few words he ain't no Salazar heir.
I suggest they get Harry to try and see into Voldys mind... Oh wait there isn't one lol
@@Martyn_Wolf from the movies “Harry talks in his sleep” 🤣
@@Martyn_Wolf that wasn’t in the books
@@diabloakland Yes it is. Ron uses a tiny bit of Parsaltounge to open the chamber of secrets in Death Hallows during the battle of Hogwarts, to obtain the Basalisk fangs that Hermione's uses to destroy the cup of Hufflepuff.
Riddle's body was never found after Halloween '81. Just his robes and wand. He actually left a corpse at the end of DH.
Tom Riddle became the new Micheal Myers lol
I think also he could not make any more horcrux's than the seven originally made the body would be checked for life and sorted that way .
@@steventaylor4798 yeah and with only 1/7th to 1/9th (idk how much of his soul is lost each of the two times his body dies) of his soul left, Voldemort is probably significantly weakened and taken down several power levels. I don't think a single fragment of his soul could be enough to somehow take control over a very powerful adult Harry.
"So the part of his soul that was in me..."
Dumbledore nodded still more enthusiastically, urging Harry onward, a broad smile of encouragement on his face.
"...has it gone?"
"Oh yes!" said Dumbledore. "Yes, he destroyed it. Your soul is whole, and completely your own, Harry"
I always had issues with the portrait having the same intelligence as the real person..
Maybe it's just a mirror
When you said darkest theory, I thought you were referring to the one where Dumbledore, not Harry came back from that limbo. Dumbledore had bound himself to Harry which was how he was able to meet him there. Then he puts Harry down and comes back to live again. After all, the ending mentions twinkling eyes.
Haven’t heard of this one (somehow). Sounds very sinister! I may have to look in to it more
How did he get Ginny pragnent than?
@@dracmalfoy8664 I mean Dumbledore definitely knows how it works even if he plays for the other hole 😂
@@dracmalfoy8664 you mean pregananant!?
Wait this is actually genius
Limbo isn’t a permanent status; Harry has the option to move on because his soul is intact. Voldemort can’t because his soul is fragmented and unable to move within limbo itself, much less to the “other side.” Also, each time he split his soul, the soul he has for each time is split in half: each soul fragment is smaller than the last. It’s why Tom Riddle’s soul in the diary is so potent compared to this. Even if something of Voldemort was left, I doubt it’d be strong enough to do much, and it could die when Harry dies of natural causes. But I think Voldemort did die the final time at Hogwarts, dead body and all, because it wraps up narratively.
why do people forget about the resurrection stone harry had it and that is why he didn't die and why he came back it had nothing to do with Harry's soul being intact harry died plain and simple along with Voldemort's remaining piece of soul. the stone allowed harry to come back. but Voldemort didn't have the stone
@@theogghost9872 he dropped the stone before he died tho
@@Trikzzarn no he died his hand opened and he had the stone in his hand
@@theogghost9872 “I was, it seems . . . mistaken,” said Voldemort.
“You weren’t.”
Harry said it as loudly as he could, with all the force he could muster. He did not want to sound afraid. The Resurrection Stone slipped from between his numb fingers, and out of the corner of his eyes he saw his parents, Sirius, and Lupin vanish as he stepped forward into the firelight. At that moment he felt that nobody mattered but Voldemort. It was just the two of them.
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Chapter 34. The forest again, page 592 of 638
@@theogghost9872 no pls read the books. Resurrection stone doesn't actually bring dead people back only a mere ghost of them. Stone did nothing to bring Harry back, voldemort's horcrux inside him died & his own soul survived b'cuz of Lily's blood protection which was flowing in voldy's body as well
As I understood it, Voldemort's soul was with Harry in Kings Cross, but the newly destroyed piece of soul is not here for the exact reason that it is not linked to the real world anymore. On the contrary, the wounded part of Voldemort that still lives is in Kings Cross because it is in between life and death. And I suppose that when Harry kills him, this part vanishes from the limbs to be actually dead !
Yes , that soul fragment / horcrux was destroyed as Dumbledore pointedly tells Harry in the limbo Kings Cross thus it would and could not be there. Harry wasn't killed but his soul was put into limbo because his mothers love protection had blocked Voldemort's killing curse once again. As his body was still alive his soul could choose to return back to it or move on. That protection however did not extend to Voldemort's soul fragment/ horcrux inside Harry so it was destroyed. Voldemort was tethered to Harry through his blood so he went into limbo with Harry when he did the killing curse but he was also tethered to life because Nagini was still living. This means both Harry and Voldemort were in limbo together and both could return and did. However the soul fragment / horcrux no longer existed though. Once Neville killed Nagini Voldemort's last horcrux was gone and Harry was able to kill him. The proof that the soul fragment / horcrux inside Harry was truly destroyed is that Harry's scar never bothered him again and he lost his ability to speak Parseltongue .
The Dementors kiss takes your soul but it doesn't kill you, so the killing curse must do something different.
Not necessarily, could be the killing curse rips the soul instantly and violently which is traumatic enough for the body to kill it while the dementors kiss takes the soul gradually, still quickly, but gradually to some extent, removing the instant violent part of the equation which makes the body able to handle it. Or the act of the kiss first transfers something to the recipient causing the body to be paralyzed in some figurative way leading to it enduring the otherwise traumatic removal. I dunno just speculating..
The killing curse kills you it’s in the name
The dementors kiss is like a scalpel. It's similar to lobotomy in its precision. It does ONE thing: take the soul, while leaving the body alone.
The killing curse rips the soul from the body and causes the body to just stop working altogether.
@@jaybird0312 I say, the Demontor's kiss actually does a brain damage similar to Labotomy. Wizards, unware of any science altogether (check Hogwarts Syllabus, u'll yak), just couldn't make the difference.
At least in general, the soul isn't the same as the mind in Harry Potter. Snape says so (even if Dumbledore responds that this might be different in Harry's case - but this seems to mean that Voldemort had a different avenue of attack compared to other people he would use Legilimency against).
If the soul isn't the same as the mind, the mind itself should simply be Harry's. So how do you think Voldemort's soul would *learn* from Harry?
And if that soul fragment could take over Harry, why did it never do this before (especially with Voldemort or with the young Tom Riddle close by)?
The sacrifice of love Harry made was more poweful than what Voldemort could have fathomed. Harry was willing to die to safe all Hogwarts. That's why the last piece of Voldermort soul died forever as the intent of the curse to whom it was being casted upon contained both souls. The elder wand in the hands of Voldermort chose to hit and kill the caster.
I feel like most of the answers later given to questions in the Deathly Hallows are like "of course it's not exactly what you'd expect based on everything that's been set up! It's something totally incomprehensible instead!"
What if they threw a still living Voldemort or his Horcruxes into the veil? If all of the Horcruxes were tossed through the veil, would it force his soul to also get trapped inside the veil as he would no longer have anything anchoring him to the mortal realm? Maybe he would still be alive in some form but trapped in a state of limbo, his soul not being able to enter the plain of the dead or return to the mortal world.
If has active anchors the former would not happen, if all anchors are gone and he fell in he would be trapped.
2:22 I thought they fed Voldemort's body to the giant squid living in the Black Lake?
The last fight scene in the movies was so underwhelming to me...
The only way this could be worse is if the souls fuse into some terrifying combination of Harry and Voldemort. I don't think the Wizarding World needs its own Batman Who Laughs.
Read my comment for my take on that exact scenario.
imagine the problem this would create for the trio, you can't really kill Voldemort without killing harry then. it would be a check mate scenario that would be amazing to see....better than the cursed child..
I was expecting more along the lines of, Tom using other magic besides horcruxes to double down on him being tied to the world of the living.
That at least would be plausible.
The soul fragment that lived in Harry was removed from the world of the living with the killing curse.
Harry could then return to his body as Harry's soul didn't take the full blast of the curse, Tom's soul fragment shared the blast of the curse which allowed Harry to return to his body where Tom's soul was unable due to being damaged and also the fact that Harry's body was his souls home, not Tom's.
Your explanation falls on the fact that IF Voldemort could take over the body and mind of Harry, he would have done so long ago when Harry was still an infant.
And even more so, Nagini who would have been taken over by Voldemort seeing as how Nagini didn't have the protection of love given by Harry's mother.
No, the story holds true to its ending. The soul fragment of Tom that was seen in Kings Cross is forever stuck in limbo as the soul must pass whole to the other side of back to the world of the living.
That's what makes the kiss of death done by dementors particularly terrible, as they rip the soul out and stores it inside them. Not allowing the soul to pass on anywhere.
Quite a lot of souls would be released if a dementor was actually killed. Makes me wonder what interesting effects that could have as the souls would return to the world of the living without a body and without a ghost. Now that's a follow-up story worth talking about.
Nagini was made a horcrux after GoF
@@majorbadidea The more you know.
I didn't recall that but apparently it's true, should be in the chapter about horcruxes in Half Blood Prince.
Even so, when Tom Riddle was alive he could have made a living horcrux and then taken over that instead of drinking unicorn blood.
So i am still not sure it changes things.
Who would want to be his horcrux? Still Nagini, but she was AFAIK invented into existence in GoF so that wouldn't be possible in canon.
In fact, most of the stuff about horcruxes are made up mid story. So nothing is canon and so we are back to square one.
Voldemort could have taken oven anyone had he had access to and wanted too before his defeat. Rather than linger in Harry until many years later and then attempt a take over of a powerful and resisting wizard.
Some people enjoy going up the wrong way on an escalator but not when their lives depend on it.
@Cadde yeah let's be honest it's not exactly a documentary comparable to ASOIAF. The books are great, but the system is broken on many occasions for the benefit of the story
That doesn’t make sense, after all his Horcruxes were destroyed, including Harry and poor Nagini
Gotta feel sorry for Nagini , she never asked for the life she got.
Gotta feel sorry for her...
@@markanthonypittaway1539 I agree, hugely
@@macwelch8599 R.I.P Nagini
Possibly not all horcruxes. Someone pointed out, that Hermione has duplicated the locket, when they got out of Ministry, effectively duplicating the part of Voldemort's soul inside!
I think since they both were in limbo and seperated at that point, each had a choice to go back to the earthly world or move beyond. Since Valdemote was only a fragment of a soul, and not a complete one like Harry, he didn't get a choice to go back or move beyond. He is stuck in limbo, unable to move forward or backwards so to speak.
Do we know if Harry lost the abilities Voldemorts soul game him? Like speaking to snakes.
I heard Rowling confirmed Harry DID lose Parseltongue ability and much of his hotheadedness, implying the evil soul fragment's not with him anymore ... but that doesn't mean it has to be gone forever EITHER, does it? Hmmmmmmm ...
The epilogue says “and he never heard a snakes speak parseltongue again.” Or something to that effect I’m sure. Don’t think they mention his temperament in the epilogue, but wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a interview detail.
@@TheOriginalCFA1979 The epilogue actually said, "the scar didn't hurt for 19 years"
@@svetlananikolaeva8039 I wonder what happened after that 19yrs. Because this phrasing implies that it did hurt again for him after the 19yrs.
@@tovarishcheleonora8542 I don’t think it means anything just the epilogue kinda picked up 19 years later
Interesting ideas.. Could lead to a new theory - could the wizarding world be terrified of Harry after seeing him defeat Voldemort and what could happen because of it?
It wouldn't surprise me for Rowling to have provided a secret backdoor in case she decided to revive the storyline at some point in the future. However, at this point I don't think she would even if she had indeed planned that. However, someone else always could exploit something like that.
I have known this channel for a long time now, but last week I discovered the Spotify channel. I have been listening to your podcasts ever since for big parts of my day: on my way to work in the train and walking, whilst at work, on my way back home from work in the train and walking and even in the car when I am driving. It really helps to get me through the day so I want to say: thankyou!
Thanks for your support Dennis! Glad you enjoy the content! Growing Spotify has been a big focus this year
Your thumbnail made me laugh. I lose it every time I hear Fudge say “he’s back”
I thought the reason Harry survived the avada kedavra was because he had all three deathly hallows. Or at least, he was the "owner" of all three despite not having them in his immediate physical posession. If you have all three hallows, you become the "master of death." I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I think it's what allowed Harry to be able to come back to life.
Yep.
No. Being "a master of death" is more of a metaphor here since it does makes u extremely powerful to have all 3 hallows but they don't guarantee that a person won't die. He didn't die simply b'cuz voldy ended up destroying his own soul inside Harry's body instead of Harry's soul. Also b'cuz Lily's blood protection was not only in harrry but Inside Voldys body as well when he used his blood to revive his body back
Not exactly. He didn't die because he was master of the unbeatable wand specifically. The cloak helped him not die because he could always hide under it, and it never wore off, but it didnt help him in the final fight. The ring....there was no practical use for the ring other than seeing dead people. Didn't stop him from dying at all.
I mean one of the hallows is called the resurrection stone so I’m pretty sure that’s what brought him back to life
@@JoshNicotine no, somebody has to actually use the stone to bring somebody else back. Nobody brought Harry back.
"where was the soul fragment that was newly destroyed?"
Umm... It was destroyed. It's just a fragment, not the main. It doesn't have to go to limbo. Rowling has said that Riddle prime being so mangled and mutilated was never able to go beyond limbo. The huddled, immobile mass we see in the limbo plan shows this as well.
1) Didn’t know they his body in Hogwarts, thought it is buried in an unmarked grave like Bin Laden - that’s actually pretty grim, especially for this fictional universe.
2) It was the Hallows that gave Harry the option to return from Limbo (at least that was what I took from that scene).
3) Following on from 1 and your definition of ghosts in this video, couldn’t it be that his ghost is lingering in the grounds of the school, manipulating people and making a whole new generation of dark wizards and/or Death Eaters; now THAT to my would’ve been a better sequel than the Cursed Child, and having the original characters’s children get how evil Voldemort was in live and still is in death.
I like your thinking, but your typos almost made it impossible to read
A soul fragment can't move on to the afterlife nor come back as a ghost.
Yeah but wouldn’t be a neat idea? Besides, wouldn’t the Dark Lord look into becoming a ghost, given his fear of dying?
No, it was not the deathly Hallows that let Harry return, it was Lily's sacrifice continuing to live because voldemort had Harry's blood that let him return
Just to clarify, bin Laden was buried at sea, so that there would be no gravesite to visit.
I've always thought that while Hagrid was picking up Harry from the destroyed house, he took the time to kick Voldy in his stupid snake face while he was there. Makes me happy.
There is also the possibility that the part of Voldemort's soul residing in Harry did not have the protection of Harry's mother. Why? It wasn't in Voldemort's body during the rebirth when he used Harry's blood, nor was it in Harry's body when Voldemort killed his mother, and that's when the protection of Harry's soul and body came into being. So it's possible that the soul fragment residing in Harry was killed.
Unrelated but could you do a what if about Petunia Dursley being a witch along side Lily?
You mean Petunia EVANS? And if Snape still called Lily the M word and she still gave up on him, would he go after PETUNIA?
Supercarlinbrothers just made a video on that fairly recently go check it out
I would’ve thought that Voldemort had an 8th horcrux because he mentioned to slughorn that 7 is what he was interested in but he made one from Harry unknowingly, so if he already made 7 by then, that would make it 8 and there is still one out there that nobody knows about
A seven part soul was what he was interested in. Six horcruxes plus the bit bit in his body which wouldn't be a horcrux. Thus Harry was the unintended seventh horcrux, unbeknownst to Voldemort, leaving him with eight part soul.
I believe that when Harry and Voldemorts’ soul was ripped out by the aveda kedavra, they went in ‘different directions’, so the soul fragment was no longer bound to Harry. And then, because Harry’s soul was full and healthy, he could return, but Voldemort’s fragment of a soul could not
your Content is Beautiful...♥️, its 2ocloc at night and this is so amazing that i am watching under my blanket.
It is an interesting theory for sure... One I dont personally subscribe to, since I believe the main way of Voldemort's resurgence after 1998 has already been tried? Doesnt he attempt to possess Harry in Order of the Phoenix after the duel with Dumbledore. He fails and according to Dumbledore "Has never experienced pain like it because his mangled and maimed soul cant withstand contact with Harry's intact and pure one" (Paraphrasing). It's also the reason why Harry no longer needs to study Occlumency in Half Blood Prince, and why there's no more visions. Voldemort himself is using Occlumency against Harry because of what happened in the Ministry.
As for why we dont see the fragment in King's Cross in Limbo? I'd say that's due to the very nature of the Horcruxes themselves. Once the container is destroyed the soul fragment is destroyed with it as it *cant* survive without it's container. I think Avada Kedavra *really* did kill Harry, therefore the fragment would've been destroyed completely. But because of Lily's protection within Voldemort Harry was able to go back.
Not to mention as it's been said that Harry lost his ability to speak with snakes after the Forest. And that the scar hadnt bothered him in 19 years. It's a cool "What if" but that's about it.
7:40 I actually always thought that. I recall having read that when a Horcrux is destroyed, the soul it contains is, too, so there wouldn't be anything to pass on to the afterlife left.
This is kind of like a twisted representation of the theme "You either die a hero, or live long enough to watch yourself become the villain." I'd actually love to see someone flesh this out in story form, could be cool!
Yeah the theory doesn't hold up sadly, just for one simple fact Dumbledore said there is nothing Harry could do for the creature, or bit of Voldemort's soul in limbo after it was killed with Harry. Harry did die, he just was allowed to choose to come back thanks to Voldemort taking Harry's blood. The soul fragment died and was not given that choice because Voldemort's main body housed the main part of his soul no matter how mangled or distorted it had become.
I always thought he might have survived because Hermione duplicated the locket, when the Trio infiltrated the ministry.
In this scenario, the part of Voldemort's soul inside the locket was duplicated along with it.
Interesting!
This is actually very logical. Makes total sense.
But doesn't such duplication only create an object similar, not transferring all the qualities of the original to it? Never thought too deep about it, but if you're right it's ground shaking!
@@domashnie_lubimtsy Perhaps..., but the enchanted treasures in the Lestrange vault kept on duplicating themselves continuously.
Wouldn't that have stopped after one duplication, if the enchantment didn't carry over to the copies?
It might be different when a piece of soul is involved..., but still.
@@Idorazan yeah, that's definitely a possibility to consider. On the other hand, if the piece of a soul could be duplicated, why didn't the dark lord try to just in case? And if it's an exact copy does death of the original effect it? Anyway it's a solid riddle 👍🏻
I've always wondered how many wands a wizard can own if you think about it Harry owns two wands ( not including the film) he has his wand he won from draco then he won the elder so can a wizard have more than one wand
I don't see why not but if olivander is right the wand chose the wizard most won't work for just anyone they could use them but it would reduce the effect of there magic it might also be a financial thing that they are expensive but there will probably be someone who just collects wands just for display
@@kretisme that makes sense 😅
@@kretismeThe wand chooses the wizard, if you best that wizard, that wizard's wand then chooses you as it's new master.
Headcanon - piece of Voldemort soul was indeed burried deep in Harry, but due to being maimed ended up dominated by Harry soul, which due to being good helped reformed it enough so after Harry's death that fragment was able to reunite with maimed fragment on the other side, and allow Voldemort to move on onto the afterlife with Harry.
It's in the end of the deathly hallows that Harry doesn't feel the pain in his scar meaning that voldemort's connection is gone. Also Voldemort had not anticipated that somebody would find his horcruxes so he would not have been able to have a wild card or a secret inner soul fragments ready to go. When he was hit with avada Kadabra that Harry received it was just the impact of both souls being hit with the killing curse then put him into limbo. And that Voldemort hated the power of love that if he had been experiencing more love in this fragile state it probably would have still killed voldemort's soul fragment so there's no way it could do a possessive attack in the future.
yeah but Voldemorts soul fragment was like a parasite and without host he can't survive
Here's a thought...
If a piece of Voldemort's soul did survive, then it's approximately 1/7th of a soul. When Voldemort was destroyed the first time, all of his horcruxes were still in tact. Even then, he came back as "less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost". If that's the case with all of his soul split, but still in existence, then perhaps if he did still have a single horcrux, he would be even weaker. Completely aware, but unable to affect or interact anything around him. So weak that even the most powerful magic can't see him. Forever cursed to wander a world that eventually forgets him as his greatest enemy moves on to have a happy and fulfilling life.
Actually, no. Each time he splits his soul, it’s stated he splits it in half. So the first time he would have half a soul, the second time a quarter, third time an eighth. By 7th Horcrux we’re looking at more like 0.5-1% soul remaining. When Harry and Voldemort met in the Forbidden Forest, Harry literally had more of Voldemort’s soul than Voldemort had.
@@TheOriginalCFA1979 Where is it stated that it's always cut in half and not split equally among all the parts?
Not saying either of us is right or wrong, just questioning if it was ever stated specifically.
As Ron would say "well, that was cheerful." Ha ha
Harry couldn't speak Parsel tongue anymore after Voldemort died, so it's impossible for part of his soul to still be living inside of Harry
I would not say "impossible" i would more say highly unlikely. Perhaps the piece of the soul became more sentient and just refused to share its powers with the host body.
But to be fair Dumbledore even told Harry that the piece of Voldemorts soul was destroyed, as for if Dumbledore planted a piece of his soul inside Harry that is a different matter altogether. In Limbo Harry, Voldemorts soul, and Dumbledore. Why would he be there?
5:14 If Avada Kedavra does rip the soul out of your body, how would that kill you? Dementor’s kiss removes the soul from the body as well and the victim is left an empty shell, but alive. So wouldn’t Avada Kedavra have the same results assuming that is how the curse works?
I generally agree, but perhaps it’s not the soul removal that’s lethal? It’s been a LONG time since I read the books, but I didn’t think the kiss was described as “ripping” the soul but “sucking out” the soul. I could be completely wrong about that.
Potentially the difference is the Dementor’s kiss is a slower extraction of the soul, which gives the body time to adjust, whereas Avada Kedavra rips the soul free in an instant, sending the body into “shock” and shutting it down?
Sort of like the bends. You can slowly bring yourself to the surface when diving and be fine, but if you rocket to the surface as fast as you can you could die half way up from a brain embolism, or worst yet you’re a saturation diver and go from a few hundred feet below the water to surface level instantly and explode, because you needed 2 weeks of slowly having the pressure lowered back to surface pressure.
I think that having your soul removed by a Dementor, brings the result akin to Brain Death. Your body is still alive, but nothing of what makes you, you is there. The Killing Curse, I think, does more than just wrench your soul from your body. When the body dies naturally, it can no longer house the soul within it, so the soul moves on. The Killing Curse CEASES everything that the body does to stay alive; breathing, heartbeat, brain-and-body connection, etc., so the soul moves on.
@@TheOriginalCFA1979 Interesting. I havent read the books for some time as well.
My headcannon is that Avada kedavra destroys the soul while the dementors only remove it so while with a dementor your body can survive because the soul exists somewhere there isn’t any chance of that with avada kedavra hence why it’s an unforgivable curse while dementors aren’t, atleased you have a chance to get to the afterlife with them.
@@Bananabob3 Hmm, funny because I had somewhat of an opposite hunch after reading OP's comment.
As in, the dementors devour your soul, but they need your body to stay alive for the process, otherwise their soul-dinner escapes to the afterlife, only partially consumed. So basically it's worse than death because if you don't get mercy-killed in the middle of the "kiss", you don't even get to have an afterlife. Your soul becomes a part of that dementor.
Avada Kedavra, on the other hand, just makes your body-soul connection _(spiritual router? lol)_ instantly severed, which still enables you to move to the other side.
Idk, that's just how I see it :P Interesting to read others' interpretations too, though.
When Voldemort tried to kill Harry in the forrest Harry and Voldemorts sould was ripped from hes body. They ended up in limbo, the place harry tought resembled Kins cross. He finds Voldemorts soul fragment under a bench in the movie version. The reason Harry had the option to return to hes body and the earth life or move on to the afterlife was that Voldemort tederd Harry to earth as long as Voldemort lives (this is only the full boided voldemort as that is the body that Harrys blood runs in). Harry choes to return to life and at that point he leves the Crippled soul fragment behind in LIMBO. This is the part that you missed. Two souls left Harrys body and only one returned. Harrys body did not have to be destroyed for the Horocrux to die or break. The spell Voldemort used ripped hes own souls fragment away from it and it did not come. This is when Harry lost his ability to snake.
I have a lot of trouble with this theory. One big issue is Harry’s soul. Voldemort was never able to control ans possess harry because of the purity of his soul andthe love contained within it. In his broken, shattered state, Voldemort’s soul could not withstand contact with harry’s, which is why he never tried to directly possess him ever again. I feel the soul fragment would have the same issue. Furthermore, it existed in Harry his entire life, and only grew in power and influence as Voldemort grew in power. Harry also never had and never would develop an emotional reliance or attachment to Voldemort the same way Jenny got attached to the diary in Chamber of Secrets. Thus, the soul fragment couldn’t feed on Harry the same way and couldn’t gain power from him. Then there’s the matter of soul fragments and horcruxes in general. When the magical container is rendered beyond magical repair, the soul fragment has nowhere to go. While Harry was tethered to life by his mother’s blood, Voldemort’s soul fragment was still effected by the killing curse, and would have been separated from Harry’s pure and undamaged soul. It also would not be able to be reattached to Voldemort’s soul without the latter’s remorse which would have ultimately destroyed him, rendering it irretrievable. I don’t agree with this theory. Also, in response to one comment about this being a better sequal than cursed child, yeah, almost anything would be, but having Voldemort be the villain again is like palpitine in rise of skywalker, cheap, disrespectful to the franchise as a whole, and rendering the sacrifices the heroes and others made ultimately meaningless.
I never did understand why voldy didn't use the death of Snape to make an emergency horcrux and leave it in the shack or have it transported far away by someone like Bellatrix knowing that the other horcrux were captured or destroyed.
So, the real world answer has been provided, and so I’ll give a couple in universe ones instead.
1) the ritual was too long/complicated/risky/exhausting to do in the middle of a Battle, it wouldn’t be ensuring survival but ensuring defeat.
2) mathematically speaking, which isn’t Rowling’s strong suit in her own words, every time Voldemort splits his soul it’s stated he splits it in half. So the first time he had 1/2 a soul, the second 1/4, the third 1/8, the fourth 1/16, the fifth 1/32, the sixth 1/64, and the seventh would leave him with 1/128th of a soul. Which would also mean Harry, the 6th Horcrux, would have twice as much of Voldemort’s soul as Voldemort.
If Voldemort split his soul in half again, he’d be down to 1/256 of a soul. Which doesn’t sound healthy to me. It seems possible he’d already spread himself far too thin and realized another Horcrux would be or would likely be lethal.
3) Pride, hubris, and shortsightedness. Voldemort believed if he was the Master of the Elder Wand, as the most powerful Wizard to ever live, he would be unstoppable. He would only need one of his Horcruxes to prevent a natural death if he was the Master of the Elder Wand. He could even carry it around with him, it’s not like any body’s going to be able to take it from him while he has the Elder Wand in his possession, because he’s the most powerful Wizard with the most powerful wand.
At the end of the Lord of the Rings, Sauron sends his entire army to confront Aragorn at the Black Gate, because Sauron knows Aragorn is a descendant of a great and powerful king, and doesn’t believe such a man could *ever* resist the power of His Ring. And so Sauron leaves the pass wide open for Frodo and Sam to slip through and destroy the One Ring, because Sauron also can’t perceive a reality in which any being could hold His Ring and not be completely taken in by the power it offers. Them destroying the Ring was impossible in his mind, nobody could resist the temptation of ultimate power, and the man who would use it against him just showed up with an army. Everything lead Sauron to believe the Ring was in Isildur’s Heir’s possession. Sauron throwing everything at that army and leaving Mount Doom unguarded was clearly a mistake, but it’s not a plot hole. Characters can make mistakes or be mistaken and make bad choices if the plot allows. I’m not sure what reason Rowling would give, but on the maths alone I’m fine with saying an 8th wouldn’t have been possible.
Always found it interesting that the last line in the books was all WAS well. Felt it could just as easily imply something was wrong and the story wasn't over.
That’s interesting @Harry Potter Theory but I am going to stick to the written storline but still, Thanks for the good video!
I can't wait for Ron to say "somehow Voldemort has returned" in Episode 8: The Rise of Potter
Avada Kedavra doesn't rip your soul out of your body. It rips the caster’s soul apart because they have violated human nature
It's absurd. Voldemort's soul is too damaged and broken to overpower a strong a whole soul like Harry's.
I can't help but wonder why Harry's horcrux wasn't destroyed when he was impaled by the basilisk. Maybe make a video explaining that.
Already answered, phoenix tears repaired the vessel being that he was a living horcrux.
Always felt in the book, the last couple of lines when he rubs his scar, the last line should have been "a sudden sharp pain". That way the option was always there to continue the story.
I've always wondered how they can be sure those were all the horcruxes he made? there could be tons more.
He no longer had Voldy's powers when he comes back from the limbo scenario. No talking to snakes, no voices in his head. So Voldy, indeed, was defeated.
Also if the requirements for becoming a ghost is unfinished biz then why wasn’t he transformed into a ghost considering Harry having the most unfinished biz like ever lol ….. obviously based off the 3 places given for where a soul goes after death according to Potterverse
To actually create a horcrux requires some additional magic to intentionally affix the soul fragment to the host, voldamort never did that magic so the soul fragment with Harry existed but was not charged with the purpose of coming back to life, or to be evil as the actually horcruxi were
This makes sense.
I would like it but not onto harry but being able to ghost around until finding a new Quirell.
The part of voldemort in Harry wasn't protected by Lilly's act of love. So it wasn't in limbo but sent directly into the afterlife.
5:10 You canʼt, in Harry Potter lore, kill someone “by magically ripping the soul from the body”. If thatʼs all the curse did, it would leave soulless but living people behind, like the Kiss.
I could see a headline for new darker Harry Potter trilogy coming out with Daniel Radcliffe playing a Voldemort possessed Harry as the main villain
Regarding your final point, about it being the unknown that we fear about death: Not for me, personally I believe that death is the end, after death, there is nothing. That however is nothing more than a belief, there is NO evidence either way as no one has come back. What I DO fear about death, isn't death itself, it's the method of becoming dead. Ideally passing away in my sleep at the ripe old age of 101 after a long and fulfilling life would be great, however not everyone gets that priviledge. Burning, drowning, choking on your own vomit or being stuck in a cave etc are all horrible / painful ways to go and something that I really would prefer to avoid!
i dont think this is the case, but what would be an interesting twist would be if something like this but voldies soul got transferred from harr to one of his sons or daughter, like from a movie standpoint if when we see the train pull away and Harry's son looking at him his eyes flash red for a moment or two and harry look shocked for a moment before the scene ends.
I think a much better theory is that there is another Horcrux. Voldemort was obsessed with making 7 Horcruxes. Why didn't he then? He never knew Harry was a Horcrux, so that only leave 6 others. This makes no sense. He had years to do it when he was ruling (in the old days) and even had plenty of time his second go round. If I were to conclude he survived, it would be with another Horcrux - as yet unrevealed.
I see what you’re saying here. But-Voldemort split his soul seven times, meaning there were eight total pieces. If you take a whole loaf of bread, and slice seven times with a knife, you have eight slices of bread. Seven slices of Voldemort’s soul were inside of the horcruxes he made, and the eighth was still inside him. Horcruxes are the opposite of how our souls work in our bodies (just like Hermione explains in the book). If you get run through with a sword, your soul will be fine and move on, while your body dies. If a horcrux is destroyed, the piece of soul attached to it cannot move on. It is also destroyed, like its “body” was. If the Killing Curse rips the soul from the body, the body dies. The body may not be broken or ripped apart, but you must have a soul to live. So if Harry’s soul was ripped from his body, and his body died because his soul was no longer within, then the piece of Voldemort’s soul attached to it was also killed with the body. What Harry sees at King’s Cross is the eighth piece of Voldemort’s soul, all that’s left of the original. Then later when Voldemort is killed because his weak body can’t withstand the fight, his remaining fragment of soul moves on (I assume…any afterlife he may have probably doesn’t look too great lol). That means there’s nothing left behind to attach itself to Harry. The seven pieces Voldemort sliced off of his soul to make his horcruxes were destroyed with the items they were housed in. The eighth remaining piece, the original, moved on when his body gave out. Nothing left. Harry is just Harry.
Now here’s the only problem with this-when someone casts a Killing Curse, the other person may have their soul ripped from their body, and their body stops working. It dies. That’s, of course, why it’s called the Killing Curse. But then…how do Dementors suck the soul out of someone (Dementor’s Kiss) and that person continues living? That’s very confusing. Maybe it’s not literally the soul a Dementor sucks out, but simply all the person’s ability to experience emotion. Don’t know. Maybe that’s actually a plot hole in the series.
Yeah, I'd agree it's a bit farfetched in its complexity. It makes more sense to me to assume that the creature resembling a baby which Harry finds is a soul fragment formerly belonging to Voldemort, perhaps the soul fragment detached from Harry as Harry was the living horcrux Voldemort never intended to create.
a theory where Voldermort becomes Lucius the Eternal from 40k, very grimdark love it
So if, and I mean IF, this holds any real weight then is it possible that voldemort's soul transferred to Albus Severus Potter, explaining why he was in slytherin?
Harry couldn't talk with snakes at the end, which means that a piece of Voldemort's soul is not inside of him anymore. His scar doesn't hurt anymore.
There's another problem with this theory, if Avada Kedavra rips the soul from the victim, then Voldemort's would be ripped too alongside Harry's.
Given that Voldemort's soul inside Harry isn't destroyed, this may mean his soul is trapped on limbo forever, unable to move to afterlife or come back as a ghost.
If his soul is on limbo, the only way back as a corporeal existence is somehow to cheat death with magic to pull that piece again to the living world inside a being, and no one is known to have such ability.
Not me seeing a creepy Voldy-like reflection in the window at 9:02. A little above James's hand, to the left of the door handle😬😬😬
I see it too! In fact, I see two of them.
No kidding! I see the other one too now😦🥶
The childish piece of soul Harry finds in limbo was what remained of Tom. It was because of Lily’s loving sacrifice that lived in Harry’s blood. The same blood that Tom used to rebuild his body. When Tom killed Harry, it caused the soul to be ripped from the body. My theory is that there is a link between the killing curse and magical blood. This meant that when Tom killed Harry the Horcrux within Harry was destroyed, but it also meant that the remaining piece of Toms soul as well as Harry’s entire soul were cast into limbo. Harry only had the choice to move on or go back because the Horcrux within him was killed, but he himself had not been. His soul was just forced out of his body.
While I’m Limbo, this meant Harry was able to move, talk, and think as normal, but because of how damaged Toms soul was, he was in a sort of paralysis while in limbo. At this point, if Harry had chosen to move on, he could have freely, but the piece of Toms soul that had been bound to his new body would have been paralyzed in limbo forever. Harry would have been dead and the only piece of Tom still in the mortal realm would have been attached to Nagini.
Personally I wanted to know why the simple killing curse could kill Harry's horcrux, but the rest had to be killed basically by basilisk venom?
Because it was in a living body, Voldemorts other horcuxes were made on purpose with very powerful charms protecting them, they had to be destroyed utterly in such a way they could not be but back together.
@@andydbedford And also we know it's not easy for the good guys to cast AK.
Think back to Dumbledores words to Snape, "When the time comes the boy must die, but it must be Voldemort that kills him". Im guessing the person who creates Horcruxes can destroy them without the use of special objects.
I think Harry being sent to limbo after the killing curse was done as a way of disentangling the part of Voldemort’s soul that was attached to Harry that way Harry can go back without an issue but there may simply have been the option available to him since he was there, the option for answers and the option to be reunited with his family however I think it was always expected of him to go back.
As entertaining as the idea is that Harry becomes the means for Voldemort to come back is I find it equally unlikely. Harry has grown up filled with the love of family it’s quite possible that the piece of Voldemort attached to Harry was able to survive due to his life with the Dursleys, now that Harry is with a loving family full of love I can picture the soul fragment withering away quietly unable to feed due to the now positive environment Harry lives in.
Issue is that we know now with nagini that a dead vessel is no longer able to hold a horceux soul piece. When he hit Harry with the killing curse he killed Harry and killed the horcux by destroying the vessels capacity to carry it, ie. It needs to be alive.
I always understood the Kings Cross scene as: The part of Voldemorts Soul that lived inside of Harry is the mangled, fleshy baby creature & that when Harry chooses to return to the mortal world he leaves behind any "Baggage" for the Limbo-State-Station to take care of.....unworthy of a true death & so stuck in-between, which is a fate worse than death.
However, I love the open-ended nature of this theory & the one below about Dumbledore also using Harry to ground himself to the mortal world.
I wouldn't be surprised if J.K.Rowling has been secretly writing that next phase of books to include the third wizarding war with Voldemort vs Dumbledore II & just waiting 'til they're all done before dropping it on us all of a sudden :P :P
But harry wasn't able to speak parseltongue after the forbidden forest incident so no the theory isn't valid
Video idea for you to do:
What additional effects do spells have that are not seen in the movies? For instance, what else can the patronus charm do besides ward off dementors?
This theory is immediately drawing Palpetine comparisons to me "Somehow Palpetine returned" Voldemorts story is done tied up in a neat bow we saw the second wizarding war we heard of the first and its end. We saw part of his past and childhood (orphanage, Hogwarts years and all) there are no more depths to plumb here
Voldemort's soul that was in Harry doesn't travel to the afterlife or anywhere else because it was destroyed, it's simple as that, they explained it. This is how horcruxes work, they say in the books that when your body dies your soul is still intact, but with horcruxes it works the other way around, and the piece of soul depends on the vessel to exist.
That creature we see in Harry Potter is just part of what it means: A lot of it happening was just in Harry Potter's Head; Neville really was supposed to be the chosen one; Voldemort chose the wrong boy.
Wasn't Harry just made into an unintended Horcrux when he got his Scar back as an infant? That's why he was a parceltounge?
He didn't get a piece of Voldemort in the 4th book, Voldemort gained a piece of Harry.
And well it's possible that a living horcrux, that is struck by Avada Kedavra will destroy the Horcrux and give the living being the option to return just "because".
Nagini was killed with the Gryffidor sword, that had absorded the basilisk venom (which kills Horcruxes). It's possible that Nagini could have survived had someone shot Avada Kedavra at her.
nah whats really disturbing is that Voldemort used the Resurrection Stone Deathly Hallow as a Horcrux... I cannot remember how it was destroyed as a Horcrux but it still somehow works as the Resurrection Stone (remember the Elder Wand a Deathly Hallow was properly destroyed in the end)- so if Voldemort placed a piece of his soul in it and then someone wanted to "bring him back" it would....?!
I believe the spell was only put on the actual "ring", and not the stone on it. It is not explained at all, even when the title litterly is "deathly hallows", maybe it is in the books. But as the stone didn't originally come on a ring, it's my guess at least.
@@MrSenses33
Correct.
Remember that the vessels were all destroyed.
And while the stone WAS cracked, it still functioned.
@@MrSenses33 that's fair
A food for thought
How come everyone in wizading world follow quidditch and so passionate about it when they cannot watch it like we follow sports on tv?
Intriguing theory, but I think the piece of Voldy in Harry is dead and gone. Harry lost his ability to speak Parseltongue, which the soul fragment gave him. Maybe if Voldemort had gone for another Horcrux once he realised his current ones were being destroyed could he return. Or if someone tried to resurrect him. You can’t bring back the dead per se with magic, but maybe you could do something along those lines.
Even if voldemorts soul is so fractured he cant really do anything at this point
Dumbledore had a (or more?) horcrux when he DID kill his sister. The others on the scene didn't recognize the magic at the time.
I have an argument against this. Firstly Avada kedavra doesn't rip your soul out it moreover destroys it. So when harry is hit with Avada kedavra he still has love protecting him which is why he has the option to return. On the other hand, Voldemort did not understand love which is why love did not protect him from Avada kedavra hence killing that part of his soul.
You read it and missed it: Rowling said that disgusting malformed baby-like thing was the last piece of soul Voldemort possessed. That means the piece that had been within Harry crossed the veil and is no longer available to tether Voldemort to the world of the living. The stunted thing is all that remains, and that is what was destroyed when Voldemort's own curse rebounded. If your theory was correct, the exact same scenario that happened when Harry was a baby would have happened again: Voldemort's curse would have rebounded and his body destroyed, leaving him nothing but a vaporous fragment. There was no corpse left by Voldemort that first time. His actual death was as final as it is for us all.
Could you make a video about phoenix's
Quite honestly I don't think it makes a difference wether the voldie inside Harry lived or died, Harry was never affected by it and never let it get control of him, nor by any other horcruxes like many did.
Maybe when the Voldie with a body insisted in exploring that unknown link, but remember: he had to force his mind into Harry's mind, but that horcrux couldn't do much of anything if not being only a bridge.
There were never any signs of activity from the horcrux and it should remain that way until Harry is killed or die of age or something else, when the body won't be able to bind no more souls and therefore the voldie inside would also be dead.
There is always another villain. We don't need to recycle the old ones.
Somehow... Lord Voldamort has returned
Wow this dark theory REALLY flipped the ending of Harry potter
If true the Tom is also a shade roaming the earth (2 pieces of soul remain one is Harry and the one tied by the horcrux in Harry)
Okay, so in the movies, Tom breaks into a billion pieces and blows away in the wind as if he were dust. Usually, I would say the book had everything down perfectly, but this part, with Voldemort's death, that's where my opinion changes a bit. So, lets look at the evidence as to why Tom's body would turn to dust. Aside from the Horcrux issues, let's focus on Toms body as it stands. It's not his original body. So, once the spark of life was taken away from the magical shell that was Tom's incarnation, there was nothing left to keep that body together. It was as if, the spell had lifted. Now, I have a great deal of issues with the movies, all of them in fact, but this specific part, I don't know, it works.
the 1st time i was watching the limbo scene. i thought the reason harry was given the option to continue living or die was because he was a horcrux. and choosing to live meant voldemort could eventually come back like he did at the beginning of the series. and i thought he was gonna choose to die to make sure voldemort stayed dead