If you wanna see a more positive video because of this one: Top 10 Classic Spider-Man Suits (Including The Lost Spider-Man Costume) ruclips.net/video/XgAAU07pKDM/видео.html
Well it’s all artificial drama, but recycling the stories makes the character stagnant and endlessly revisiting the same 10 villains has worn very thin.
@@matthewconlon2388 of all the villains introduced when they said “no old villains” I need you to name which one has become popular that isn’t Mr Negative. They may be stale but these people aren’t creative enough to make new interesting characters
Spider-Man is like Daredevil and Batman in that every time he finds happiness with his life, the writers will always tear it away from him to make him as miserable as possible for the sake of cheap drama. Edit: You can apply this to Hulk, Moon Knight, Wally West, the X-Men, Venom, Ghost Rider, The rest of the Bat-family…really, practically any hero who’s been published long enough by Marvel and DC.
God I hate that. LET BATMAN BE HAPPY. Jesus, everytime you see him he’s always depressed and alone despite having the single largest network of heroes around him. It also sucks all the nuance out of him when he’s just a brooding crime-stopper 24/7. Tom King could’ve had something with the wedding storyline, but he fumbled the ball big time and then dropped it off a cliff with City of Bane.
@@a_fine_edition2746 To be fair, the wedding wasn’t completely his fault. It was cancelled via editorial meddling. However, City of Bane is completely on him.
I recently started reading Spider-Man comics, starting from the beginning. I just got to about 1980. One of the interesting things about Peter Parker was he had forwards momentum in his life. He gradually grew up from a kinda resentful teenage nerd to a confident college student. Where I'm at, he's got his bachelor's degree and become a TA. I've read a few things past it like Kraven's Last Hunt and I see that Peter did continue to evolve. I also just finished rewatching the 90s cartoon. Even there, Peter grows and evolves. He even gets married to MJ (but there were some shenanigans involved) But modern Marvel seems terrified of having their major characters experience genuine, realistic, life altering changes. I have also notice powerful people in the Marvel office have somehow fetishized Peter's teenage years. Before I started reading the comics, I was just a casual fan through movies and cartoons and only knew about the comics through online discussions and Marvel press. I always assumed Peter spent a significant period of time in high school and that's why these editors are so obsessed with teen Peter. But no. Peter graduated from high school in issue 28. He spent 5x more time as an undergrad in college than he did in high school. Gwen, who modern Marvel editors are also obsessed with, died in issue 121. Peter has much, much, much more history and important moments with MJ than he ever had with Gwen. Nothing about Peter's arrested development makes sense. Not narratively, not in a business context and certainly not when it comes to making readers happy. Marvel ran off many readers with OMD. If they did publish a story where Peter and MJ get back together (for real) then that comic would sell hundreds of thousands. But the people who run Marvel let their stupid, childish biases keep their readers in a constant state of wishing for something Marvel refuses to give them. Sometimes you should just give the customers what they want.
I agree marvel need to grow up let Peter and Mary Jane get married have kid stop playing with fan emotions be married is relatable the people at office don’t know what the hell their talking about because those people can’t grow up and move or they personal issues many of us want a married Spiderman so give it back to us
I couldn’t agree more. I was basically in your position for a lot of my life, never really delving into the comics side of Spidey and sticking more to the mainstream. So I just assumed a majority of the character’s history was stuck in permanent youth. But seriously, what is up with the constant return to teenage Peter in high school? Some of the best Spider-Man content is when he’s a grown man, married and out of school. I feel like it all comes back to Stan Lee’s initial pitch for the character. At the time, teenagers were never anything more than sidekicks in comics, so Stan’s idea of a teenage hero was revolutionary. But that doesn’t mean the character isn’t allowed to grow. Part of the reason Peter sticks with us is watching him mature into a man. But the writers seem dead set on sticking as close to the original concept as possible by constantly reverting him to a high schooler. It’s genuinely maddening. Peter was married for more than 20 years in real-time. Before all this constant resetting started, there’s legitimately more content with him as an adult, and it’s awesome.
I trully wonder if they ever read any forums or just watch a youtube video. I can't read older comics bc I don't like the art style and the letters and all make my eyes hurt, so I focus on the modern ones. As the video said, Spencer's run wanted to evolve Peter, so you're going to love that one. I know I did.
It feels like around the 2000s era is where he started to stagnate. Certain things always stayed the same, but they definitely didn’t have this “status quo is God” writing they do now for some reason.
I think the main deal is that these American Comic book Superheroes have an extremely strong Pop-Culture significance. Spider-Man is one of the more recent characters in the American Superhero Pantheon. He came out in '62. Stan Lee was 40 years old when he conceptualized and wrote the character! It's been 60 years since he's been a hero. That's is like 3 lifetimes worth of time for a character to have a realistic growth. People usually don't realise how long that is. There's has been at least one Spidey comic book coming out monthly since the past 60 years! These characters hold almost a god-like status in the American culture (since they don't really have their own mythology, so these characters are the next best thing). I'd say Spidey actually got world class treatment for a character who was essentially a newbie, the odd one out, and no way as traditional as the classic respectable vintage Superheroes. Compare that with any other character. Nobody really gave a shat about Deadpool before the Films, Wolverine wasn't even the best X-Men character, Daredevil was an incredibly niche character, Moon Knight was only remembered for Web of Shadows, Captain America was pretty much a walking Plot Convenience, 90% of the general population didn't know who tf Thor is (the character, not mythology), and Iron Man was only seen as a 2nd grade Hero with a cheap armour. Even the most diehard DC fans are chill with Spidey. You gotta have hit Homerun many times to do that. The average comic book reader only does so for 4-5 years, before they either grow out of it, or pursue the media without following the comics. Double that with the amount of time Spidey has existed. That's about 120 Generations who diligently followed the character's comic book shenanigans (not even counting the people who are casual readers.) Althought it is true that since 90s onwards, the concept of superheroes have become a household name globally because of the cartoons and films from the 2000s onwards. When I was a kid, i was one of the very few kids who knew characters other than the Trinity (Batman, Superman, Spider-Man). I was the only one who knew about Iron-Man, Silver Surfer, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc. And this wasn't even too long ago, only 2 decades. The comics are like a paradox. At one end, you have stories and characters which have become an integral part of America. But on the other end, these characters have been written about constantly for so long, that the current generations get burnt out seeing them carry on for so many decades without the signs of permanent ageing and growth. Moreover, how do you even age Comic characters? Let's say the clone saga was permanent and "Peter Parker" was replaced by Ben Riley. 25 years later, some kid reading "Spider-Man" will get curious and search the internet to learn more about the character's history because he loves this Superhero. Suddenly, he realises that the Spider-Man he followed isn't even the original Spider-Man, let along the "real" one. How do you work with that? When that kid reads more about Peter Parker, slowly walking back to the point of where his story began, won't that kid feel confused? Or a scenario where Spider-Man is 45 years old. Almost a middle aged man, with a wife and a teenage daughter. For them, the Uncle Ben and Aunt May significance is replaced by Peter and MJ/Gwen/Cindy/Felicia. They'll become used to seeing Peter tryna balance his home life and Superheroes duties. It wouldn't be as easy anymore, since he has to earn a living to support his family too. So he can't be like "Whoops, gotta skip class to save the city". I think such concepts won't have a long lasting effect on the superhero's case in the long term. That's why most of such stories are done by parallel books or their own seperate storyline, away from the canon 616 Mainline counterpart. You can even see this dynamic when comparing The Amazing Spider-Man with Ultimate Spider-Man. Both are brilliant books, one having much more history than the other, with the other much more well written and modern. For a generation of comic book fans, Ultimate Spider-Man was the definitive version of the character (including me). It is angine example of how you can work around the formula as long as it doesn't replaces the original, and is its own seperate thing. I think that's the best way it can work.
What's extra frustrating about refusing to allow 616 Peter to grow and change is...the Ultimate line was created for this exact reason (give readers a young Spidey). And now there's Miles in 616...there are so many characters to tell "young Spidey" stories with...it's just maddening that they also refuse to let Pete grow.
The worst thing about spider-verse was that it's success would bleed more of this stuff into 616 and make everything even more convoluted. Spider-verse made the wise (and obvious) decision to have these characters be from different universes, a time honored tradition of comics and how they existed in the first place, what brain damaged exec at Marvel said "we need more of this!" and instead of just printing more ultimate/what-ifs/alternate universe issues decided to dump everything into 616? I'm reminded of Miguel travelling back in time (and across universes??) to 616 for his sticker book adventure full of literally nothing we enjoyed about 2099.
How anyone can say Gwen Stacy is Peter's greatest love baffles me. It's like they never even read a single comic that includes MJ in it. From the stories where she's written well and in character, you see what an amazing and perfect match she is for Peter. I really don't see how people can say otherwise.
Is because of Emma Stone's Gwen portrayal (that is basically Ultimate Mary Jane rather than Gwen) that people consider Gwen, Perer's greatest girlfriend.
@Jorge Jones It's not stupid because MJ has been with Peter waaay longer. So that relationship has been fleshed out really well. Gwen died and has stayed dead. How can you like Gwen for Peter when MJ is endgame and been with him and developed their own character. It's not bad to like Gwen but it's kinda dumb to prefer her over MJ
Okay, look. I'm all team MJ through and through...but knowing what was planned for The Spectacular Spider-Man does make me want a great Gwen Stacy relationship. Peter is a tragic hero, that's his whole shtick. Doing the right thing, missing out on what he wants, but getting what he needs. Greg Weisman outlined what he had planned for his show, and I think it's perfect for portraying exactly what I just said. Weisman said that he would have killed Gwen, and the loss of her as Peter's girlfriend and as MJ's friend would bring Pete and MJ together. If Gwen is killed because Peter is doing the right thing, this is a great example of what makes him such a compelling character. He does the right thing, he loses Gwen, but he gets MJ. In a sense, if Gwen is Peter's greatest love, then that makes the stakes of losing her a tremendous loss. In so many of his stories, Peter gets his butt kicked when he first meets a new enemy, and then returns and wins. Every pattern is that both Peter and Spider-Man share a trait that losing is the first step on his path to winning. Losing what he thinks is his greatest love leads him to his perfect partner, and this is why even MJ fans should be able to get behind the idea that Peter thinks Gwen is his greatest love. Now, if the WRITERS actually believe that she's his greatest love, then they're smokin' what they're sellin' and that ain't right.
Those fans are pretty much just movieverse fans comparing all of live-action spiderman's love interest and ultimately agreeing Gwen was Peter's best movie girlfriend.
It's pretty hilarious how One More Day continues to stand the test of time of as one of the worst decisions in comic book editorial history. As you and other comments have pointed out, it was woefully short-sighted. The worst part is that Miles Morales was right around the corner and could have easily taken up the mantle until Spider-Girl (May Parker) grew up to be old enough to be next in line.
It's honestly true though. OMD was a very damaging story for Spiderman and IMO they have not truly recovered from it. It's more than a marriage being nulled, it's the idea that an editor can just come and decide to undo decades worth of storytelling cause it wasn't like the stories they grew up on or in Joe Quesadilla's case, liked it best when Spidey was a single bachelor. Growth can't happen or moving forward with the character can't happen and editors can just come in and say scrap it.
Yeah, it's so bizarre how that decision was made given that there was an ongoing run, one of Spider-Man's absolute best if not the best entirely focused on Peter's earlier life as Spidey. They had zero need to do this to the 616 universe but they did it anyway for no good reason.
@@Birdhouseart OMD is like, THE example you use in an argument when you're debating the position that comic book characters need to be allowed to be sunsetted from main line stories. Cause if you don't, you get stuff like OMD.
"Invincible" and "My Hero Academia Vigilantes" are very good Spiderman stories. It is a shame we have to go to other media for the Spiderman stories we're craving.
@@aidanshowers8366 read "MHA Vigilantes" - Horikoshi approved everything Hideyuki Furuhashi did while writing it. Furuhashi takes elements from Batman through "Knuckelduster" and Spiderman through "Koichi aka The Crawler."
Dan Slott sucks He exclusively allows positive feedback and it doesn't matter how well worded what people say about his work is, he'll always block, deflect, etc. And then he uses the people that shittalk him as examples as to why he blocks them, lumping everyone who has any good faith criticism with them. Genuinely awful person.
Didn't he also joke about how he barely does his own job in a documentary at one point? I remember a controversy about that. So refuses to accept criticism and doesn't do his job, a 'winning' combo.
@@user-vs5gb7pt3h Or every editor that, you know, thinks Spider-Man won't be "relatable" if he has at least a little bit of happines or character delopment in his live.
@@flaviapetrorossidefigueire6044 If he wasn't so gosh-darn GIDDY at fan-rage during the entire Superior event, I'd have an easier time believing you that he's a good writer lol
Yeah I’ve been feeling the same way. Nick Spencer’s run felt like an apology tour rather than a distinct run. But it ended hopeful to then put Peter in a coma during the beyond arc and now did something so horrible that Mary Jane broke up with him , got married and now has kids. It’s squidward torture porn but stretched out to months or years , it’s frustrating
As far we know she's not married to "Paul" at least nothing that indicates she is, and I 100% don't believe she is. as for the kids, there something's up with them, you have to remember that everything that's happened happened within 6 months. and the kids seems rather old to be six months more like 5-6 years old. and yeah, another part of the mystery box.
I remember a time when Spider-Man's adventures revolved around every day problems with stories that could be wrapped up in 1, maybe 2 issues. Yeah, not every villain of the week was a winner, but at least the adventures didn't revolve around Multiversal Spiritual Totems, clones, or whether or not Peter's deal with The Devil-Adjacent is going to be broken or not. What really messed me up is that enough time has passed since the marriage that now, assuming no kid has ever seen a TV or movie adaptation, new readers will never understand why Mary Jane Watson is important.
I agree with this. The current Spider-Man comics run is going horribly so far. Peter as a character is regressing instead of developing. I'm not here to relate to a character(although some do), I'm here for Spider-Man's story... And the current Peter Parker is not even relatable anymore
@@aimanrizal97 Yes. Spencer actually did a lot to get Spider-Man out of the continual status quo we've been in since One More Day, and arguably before. I'll admit maybe they didn't do so much in his run largely because his entire run literally felt like an apology for continuously fucking up Spider-Man year after year with dogshit-tier story after dogshit-tier story, but that is what was desperately needed for the character. Then the Beyond run happened, which was... tolerable, until the very end which started to fall back into it. Then this new run debuted by showing that somehow, everybody now hates Peter Parker, including MJ, and she's like completely moved on from him and never wants to see him again. Again. For like the 44th time.
@@rookiedrifter4273 Man, the only way to redeem Peter is to kill him off immediately. This series has overstayed it's welcome. Thank goodness I stopped reading when he was hospitalised due to the radiation.
@@retronerds6884 indeed and frankly I've been saying for a very long time that marvel really needs to let Peter parker and Mary jane have there marriage return and also let them have their daughter Mayday parker Spider-girl alive and kicking in the mainstream marvel universe, mostly because if other characters like Wolverine Superman Batman and Wally west flash can be adults who are married and have children as well then the same logic can also apply to Spider-Man Peter parker and have him finally move forward as a character and be a adult and plus a bonus letting him finally being a parent would be a great progression for his character in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka like seriously batman being a father doesn't hurt his character neither does superman but marvel has the idiotic ideal he'll to be to old news flash he's a grown ass man he was only in high school for 30 issues the best thing about spider-man was that he was able grow that included aging spider-man life is regarded as one of the best modern spider-man stories for a reason nick spencer laid the format all marvel had to was follow through
@@retronerds6884 indeed and frankly a lot of people myself included want Peter Parker Spider-Man to move forward with his life and having him be married to his Wife Mary Jane and having them having there child Mayday Parker Spider-girl alive and kicking in the mainstream marvel universe is the right way to continue his stories and plus expands the meaning of what great powers must also comes great responsibility by passing on that lesson to their daughter mayday parker spider-girl makes sense and gives peter more responsibility as a parent and as a hero is the right way to go at least in my opinion. The point is what i am saying is this, marvel seriously needs to let there character Spider-Man Peter parker finally move forward as a character and letting be a parent is the right way to go with his story and also opens the door for more mature storytelling and finally lets him deal adult topics and also opens the door for Miles Morales Spider-Man to move forward with his story too by teaching peter's daughter how to control her powers would be really awesome and tons of fun at least in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka Exactly I agree with everything you've said they have miles he was made back in the 2010s he connects with a modern younger audience let miles be the young spiderman and Peter be the adult spiderman a married spiderman a spiderdad it's not that hard of a concept
The answer is right there for marvel: Let Peter grow up and use Miles to tell the younger stories. Spider-Verse did it. I know I have bias because I stopped reading monthly once OMD happened. I have read some TPB and there are good stories, but Peter needs to be able to grow, with or without MJ.
I agree. The fact that Marvel keeps Peter in his 20s and doesn't let him grow only to keep the status quo is annoying. Especially with Miles in 616. I'd love for Peter to grow more as a person and a hero again and eventually get back with MJ (If Marvel actually lets us have nice things again for once.) But what I truly want is Miles to also grow as both a person and as a Spider-Man. Like he needs his own personal rouges gallery, people who are villains for materialistic reasons or people who just want to cause chaos. I don't care, just give him some more personal villains of his own. Like that viking dude from Ahmed's run or Starling (Sort of, I know that they're a couple now but you get what I mean) Miles is the *perfect* place for young Spider-Man stories and he has massive potential to grow into a great Spider-Man for his own unique problems to face different from Peter. Like with his family life, he has a little sister now. Someone he'll look out for and be there to protect, both as an older brother and as a hero. But I also want him to develop his own style of fighting like Peter did with Shang-Chi, I want him to grow with his fellow super hero friends and do his best to make Peter proud as someone who shares the name Spider-Man with him. Sorry I'm just rambling, I just want the best for Miles and it makes me sad that it doesn't happen that much or if at all. But Peter also needs to grow up and actually get OLDER, something that ITSV didn't shy away from. I don't like the suffering he goes through in every new run, it's heartbreaking and sad that this happens. I've been keeping up with Spidey comics for years but not to the point where I'm actually reading them, but enough to where I know what's been going on and like you and everyone else I am disappointed with what's happening with Peter. Nick Spencer's run was considered the best till it ended (And the ending was sadly rushed) and it was undoing a lot of stuff done to Peter in the past. It was letting him grow as a person and a hero and sadly the new run has undone all of it. At this point the *BEST* version of Peter (Asides from Insomniac's version) is Into The Spider-Verse Peter. I love that version of him and I can't wait to see him again next year in Across The Spider-Verse! Sorry I'm done now.
i saw a comment once where it said have Miles be the younger, teenage stories, Kaine/Ben be the Young Adult Bachelor stories, and Peter be the Married Adult Father Stories, and I have to agree with it, it's time for Marvel to let Peter grow up an become an adult and hopefully a father, and let either Kaine Parker and Ben Riley take over as the young adult, and Miles so we could still get teenage Spider-Man Stories.
@@windghost2 they have something good with Miles, but like you said, Miles doesn’t have any rouges, memorable stories, etc because they won’t progress Pete and let Miles get his time to shine as well. PS4 Spidey made me respect Miles as a character, and ITSV made me root for the kid. Peter is kinda like Dick Grayson and making him move on from Batman and have different stories helped him so much. The same can be done and was done prior to OMD. But now it can also help out Miles and it’s just missed opportunities at this point.
@@bigcali4life I definitely agree with you on this. Since there's a new writer coming in for Miles in December, I'm hoping that Miles will get some new villains of his own, new problems and crazy situations for him to get through as Miles and as Spider-Man. Cuz I'm losing hope for Peter at this point and I'm so sad because of that.
I don’t know the general consensus on the PS4 game, but I LOVED its story. Nothing has changed about premise of Spider-Man, but enough has changed to make the characters a bit wiser and more mature. Everything in the game is handled in a way that doesn’t dumb it down for a younger audience, but it’s also not needlessly edgy. I think it laid the perfect tone for Spider-Man stories to come, and I hope we’ll see some new writers taking inspiration from it.
@@chrystheo808 I guess if I have one complaint, it’s that things get a little bloated towards the end. I think the stakes were high enough with just Doc Ock and Mr. Negative, no Sinister Six needed.
Not in a million years, Insomniac’s Spider-Man ps4 game is the worst Spider-Man story in mainstream media. It’s worse than anything Dan Slott has written. It’s worse than Spider-Man 3, worse than both TASM movies, even worse than the mcu home trilogy.
Nick Spencer did so well to bring Peter and MJ together. He even fixed his bond with felicia and developed her to the point that she admitted that She's not romantically interested in Peter but her bond with him is important. Now they messed up all that development by breaking MJ and Peter up whislt rekindling the Black-Cat romance. This completely backtracks on all of Felicia's development with both Pete and MJ. It's stupid writing fr. Ultimately, Peter and MJ will get back together and it will completely destroy and negate all of Felicia's recent growth. It also makes the MJ and Felicia friendship awkward (I always found it weird that the writers are trying to make a friendship between them when they aren't willing to let Felucia let go of her feelings for Peter).
I always prefer Felicia having feelings for Peter, wasn't jazzed by what Spencer did with her. I would love to see him with Felicia as the new long term relationship, if MJ can't be allowed to happen.
I loved that one issue in which Felicia and MJ teamed up bc someone threatened to kill Peter, and by the end they had a better understanding of each other. Felicia confessed she's seen like the other woman and the bad influence and MJ laughed and said that's how they see her too and that they compared her to Gwen, who was dead.
Nothing is more marketable than a Spider-Man wedding and perhaps even a long term Spider-Dad story arc. Those books would make *BANK.* Make it happen Marvel.
Exactly. Like, we have such a great successor to the mantle in Miles already. Let HIM go through the teenage drama arcs now. Let Peter enjoy the middle aged superhero life he so desparately needs. Him getting married, having a kid, building a solid family who love, trust and support him, these are all things I know spider-man fans would love for peter to have
We had Spider-Girl comics running and selling like crazy for years. Renew Your Vows and Life Story, both of which have an older Spidey who’s a dad, sold very well. JMS’ run showed that a married Spidey works. Marvel editorial is just stubborn as hell.
Anyone else notice how TASM Gwen is basically based off of old MJ and no one says anything? Adding to that the editorial disdain for MJ is down right atrocious.
Never knew that with TASM Gwen, but it makes me love her even more than I already did. And the editorial disdain for MJ is tragic. Why care SO MUCH about Gwen, when she literally died DECADES ago? And MJ's been with Peter longer, done more with him, seen him at his worst and lowest points in his life and has been with him through those times that she's a much better partner than Gwen because of those moments. But the editorial department cares about Gwen more? Make it make sense!
Fun fact Slott actually went out of his way years ago to block each and every follower of the spider-man crawlspace site because the podcast they do was super critical of him. They were arguably the most critical of him honestly.
honestly the current spidey artists deserve way more than what they're given, especially jrjr, he was one of j michael straczynski's main creative sources, sometimes even overpowering editorial demands.
Agreed. Though in JRJR's case, his work during JMS's run was so much better. And in The Lost Years too, but his style seems to have just homogenized in a bad way. Just my opinion though.
What makes his constant regression worse is that all his side characters do progress. Like Liz being a company owner, Jameson being mayor of NY, like how tf?
At this point, a fourth Tobey movie that shows his development through the 10+ years before No Way Home would convince Marvel to finally develop comic 616 Peter. There's also the Imsomniac sequel that I hope the MCU will go to that direction.
Dude who wouldn’t love a Tobey Spider-Man film? It’s so weird that DC has found their best success with one off films, and Marvel/Sony is could EASILY make the best, most wanted one….and yet doesn’t want to do it. 😂
The problem is that these editors are so in love with the Spider-Man that *they* grew up with-that being the lonely miserable loser-that they have this arbitrary need to reject any growth in the character. It honestly feels like these editors and writers are just projecting their miseries and woes on Peter rather than make compelling stories and characters.
It's more like they're all obsessed with their idea of the character. Because every new run brings a completely different version of Peter who doesn't look, talk, or act anything like any previous version, and it feels like the writers are basically self inserting what they want the character to be and not who he actually is.
@@jacobrivera1721 I mean it's okay to reflect your personal issues into the story of a character to a certain extent, but when you do it so much that it changes the original characters personality that's too far
Spider-man is one of the greatest superheroes of all time. He is a globally recognized icon by this point who is meant to inspire and be the best of the everyday person just getting by. So for his comics to just be, as you described it, misery porn is just depressing and infuriating on top of it.
Not really, I don’t think Spiderman has any real fans beyond the age of 17. It’s always for kids. Grown men usually go for Batman, Joker, Hulk, Supes, Iron Man …
@@jobsmine Calling bullshit on that. Spiderman is one of the most popular heroes of all time across all ages. He's one of the greatest heroes to have ever been made and is the most relatable. Anyone and everyone can relate and find common cause with Peter Parker, making him the eternal superhero everyone can turn to.
@@tobluetoblack again like I said popularity has nothing to do with a good superhero. Baby Shark Dance is the most famous song on RUclips because kids watch it day in day out. Spiderman is for youngsters that spend time on Disney and don’t go beyond anything their family haven’t allowed them to do so.
@@jobsmine What the hell does baby shark have to do with this? This sounds short sighted and cynical. If you don't like Spider-man just say it cause that's what it sounds like
@@jobsmine Your first comment didn't state your opinion on what makes a good superhero. You were saying that you didn't think spiderman had any real fans beyond the age of 17. Nathan commented that he believes Spiderman is one of the most popular heroes of all time across all ages because he was very relatable, and not just to kids, but upon many older people as well. Then your second comment states, "again like I said popularity has nothing to do with a good superhero." ...what? Where did you mention your thoughts on popularity amongst superheroes in your previous comment?
I have been reading Spider-Man comics my entire life and I could not agree more with you. You made all of the points that I have thought about the progress of him.
I have a question, how did you feel about the mcu Spider-Man being happy. I constantly hear from comic fans that Spider-Man shouldn’t be happy but should be suffering, yet him suffering is what is ruining the character
@@curtailedbike4123 I liked him having his happy moments for I feel that is a big part of the character as well, but I think he needs to move towards this path of pain. That is a big part of what makes him Peter Parker. He never gets to truly be happy. There's always the highs and lows for Peter. Spider-Man has been seen as a curse to Peter from time to time and I think that needs to be part of the character. Don't worry though, he'll have his time in happiness again. Just like real life, there are highs and lows.
Nick Spencer run was the last Spider-Man series I read. It was good that brought back classic characters and used them in a unquie way. PLus Peter and MJ getting back together and starting over felt right. Now were back to square one of Peter being the most unluckiest guy.
Maguire Spiderman looks like he's actually matured by the time of No Way Home, to the point that he's the wisest of the trio we see. That seems like a better development, to see beloved young up-and-coming heroes advance to the next stage of their Being as the wise guide to the next generation of heroes. Funnily enough I'm actually not too sure what recent media still goes for that these days. There's a hideous streak of cynicism that tries to make our favorite young heroes grow up to be weak, disaffected, or short-sighted old folks that our newer heroes have to defy (though I'll admit I'm thinking mostly of Luke Skywalker in TLJ). Perhaps never letting our heroes grow up to become old is another manifestation of this broad cynicism against "the Old", if such a thing does exist.
It’s part of the trend where young characters in media have to defy the authorities. You really put it well about how if effects characters who ought to age.
An example of a hero turning “old” done well would be Superman in the recent comics. He doesn’t seem to be going anywhere anytime soon but he is written to be that of an older generation while his son Jon is clearly of the new. It works well highlighting differences without tearing Kal down. A good instance is when Manchester Black expects Clark to start spouting a “better in my day” speech but Clark actually says “not at all, in fact I think younger generations are more aware of social issues today than we ever were. I am only encouraging you to use that drive in conjunction with your imaginations.” (Paraphrase)
Honestly, when this run ends I want someone to start the next with Peter waking up and being like "I had the craziest dream, it was so bad" and then move on right from where Spencer left it.
If you think Dan Slott's Spider-Man run was bad, boy... you wait until you read his Fantastic Four run 💀 Johnny Storm is in the same situation as Peter, not allowing Johnny to grow up and start a family of his own. Dan Slott had Johnny cheated on his soulmate by hooking up with Doom's bride a week before the wedding (which was so out of character for Johnny). Oh! And Doom was going to marry someone who he sees as a daughter💀 What's even worse, is that when fans criticize his run and acknowledged how out of character Johnny was written, Dan Slott blocked them (me included) and then Dan tweeted "A healthy relationship? Who would want to see that?🤣"
My problem is that every time the writer switches, the new writer completely undoes the previous run, de-ages/deletes character growth, and introduces more bullshit drama. We just want it to go back to pre one more day, but it just keeps getting worse. Marvel marketing execs have ruined their comics again and again. They ruined the clone saga and they ruined civil war with one more day.
That's a problem with Western comics in general. Unlike Japanese manga,It's usually just one writer and one artist. DC also has that issue. I can only pick one Ann. It's Damian Wayne. In one issue they had him developing and stuff, but then a new writer came changed back into,His old self.
"Imagine if you replaced all the mundane cast of Spectacular Spider-Man with other superheroes" We already had that, it was called the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. And yeah, in my own opinion it was much inferior.
As a long-time fan of the wall-crawler it genuinely hurts my heart because I just started getting into the comics again through Strazynskis run, which is relatable for 1 and AMAZING with it's writing! I loved how it's realistic in terms of the choices he makes and even the jokes have gotten a laugh outta me. I wish MARVEL would for once listen to us and our feedback so we'll finally have the stories we want to see. I now see why JMS is so revered as I keep going; he expands on the status quo, writes every character like a person- hell even the bad guys, and makes them progress. Honestly, might just hang back form ASM and write my own atp.
I'll have to check that out some time. My all time favorite writer is Micheline and I think ASM peaked with Micheline and McFarlane. I've always associated JMS with One More Day which isn't entirely fair because Joe Quesada called that shot and I've heard the run started strong.
I completely agree with this video. There are things I want to add. I never understood why Marvel wanted OMD to happen. I get that they wanted to have more "relatable" peter, but they had Ultimate Spider-man and Marvel Adventures: Spider-man for that.
There's a soviet cartoon I loved during my childhood called "three from Prostokvasheno". It's about a young boy who run of from home to live in a rural vilage with a talking cat and dog. One of the episodes had him write a letter home, only to be distracted by something and then cat or dog would write something in the letter instead of him. End result horrified his parents, because their boy apperently went so savage that he started shedding his fur among other things. And that situation is basically a main problem I see in entire comic industry. Instead of a confined story penned by a single author with a singular vision and a defined endgoal, you have multiple writers and editors trying to pull character in their own direction, ending up in a confusing mess that drags on for generations.
What gets me is that Marvel Editorial argued that Peter Parker being a married man with kids wouldn't be relatable to readers, however Renew Your Vows proved that completely wrong!
@@jacobrivera1721 Like hell yeah I wanna see Pete deal with the struggle of raising a family! Talk about untapped potential for stories. Keeping him single just has them redo the same plot threads over and over
This is just a problem in general with comic books, never letting the status quo change. I'd love to see legacy heroes. Tim Drake becoming Batman, or when Ben Riley was going to take over as Spiderman. But alas, it's not permitted
This is an issue I have with superhero comics in general. The runs can be good sure, but the characters never age, the status quo is constantly preserved, and evil just endlessly respawns. You could argue that the movies, shows and games are an improvement that they don't have to keep going on forever and can have proper and possibly definitive endings. At least definitive as superheroes can get.
I’ll always choose Renew Your Vows over OMD. Peter is a good, responsible husband and father. He also later on becomes a teacher. True character development. Logan and Jean Grey also got married and had a daughter of their own.
Renew Your Vows is amazing. The dynamic between Peter, MJ and Annie is great. They genuinely feel like a happy family, a superhero family. Its great to see Peter and MJ learning how to be a better parents and Annie learning how to be a better superhero.
I just don’t understand why they can’t allow Peter to grow up and have a relationship with Mary Jane and balance a relationship with his super hero life? Stories like that are FAR more interesting then just making Peter struggle for the sake of making him struggle like we get it man. Do something different with Spider-Man already we have decades of stories with Peter struggling and having his life in shambles we shouldn’t be retreading this topic over and over again. It’s boring! Why can’t we see Peter as a father? Renew Your Vows was amazing and that’s the type of Spider-Man stories I wanted to see
Ironically Spider-Man’s success as a brand has become the comic character’s biggest downfall. He has to be stagnant so new readers can hop on wherever. It sucks and no matter how many more Spider-people they add to the Marvel universe to tread similar ground, it won’t change.
@@danielwood6833 I honestly find the other spider-people redundant when it comes to the kinds of Peter Parker stories that already happened. Honestly my most memorable Spider-Man was animated TV Shows, don't ask me why because each new Spider-Man TV Show restarts the entire story and puts him back at being young again, but maybe it's because those never go into continuity clusterf#4k territory when it comes to their territory.
I've held this opinion for a while; it's because they don't know how. Many of these writers have shown themselves to be... not great people, so when people ask them to come up with a healthy or loving relationship, they're at a complete and total loss. They've never been in one. They don't know how a happy couple acts. They just don't know how to write relationships and interactions between people that are healthy, because all of the ones they've experienced have been toxic.
Because change can is scary for profit. If they change things and get a writer that will let Peter growth maybe they'd get less money. It would be a gamble for them
I remember a joke where someone said that the reason of Peter and MJ acting so out of character it's because the originals died in One More Day and the ones we've seen these years are Demons from Mephisto's realm replacing them
I think a lot of the public that doesn't read comics don't like Mary Jane because of the Sam Raimi movies turning her into a pretty annoying character, which is why there is more focus on other characters and why when we do see Mary Jane nowadays she either feels like a completely different character to how she was written back in the day (like how the MCU version of her doesn't even have the same name, let alone the same personality, and the insomniac version is more of a Lois Lane then a Mary Jane), or that she and peter just can't have a proper happy and stable relationship, which sucks. Back when I was only familiar with the movies I very much hated Mary Jane and loved Gwen, because of that, but when I actually got into the comics I was shocked by how likable and interesting she actually was, don't get it wrong she is not perfect, but she is so much more interesting than you would think she is based on movies and cartoons. I think that the idea that Gwen is Peter's eternal love is a fundamental misunderstanding of Peter's relationship with both Gwen and Mary Jane. Gwen and Peter could never have worked, they had too many secrets that they kept from one another (even before Sins past) and Gwen would have never been able to accept Peter's choices in life. Mary Jane on the other hand is actually very similar to Peter, she is someone who constantly goes out of her way to help others even when it doesn't benefit her, from staying with Peter after Gwen dies even though he hurt her, to choosing to not tell him that she knew his identity for years just so that their relationship won't get tainted despite how much it hurt her. And it's all motivated by a similar incident to what motivates Peter to do what he does, just like him, Mary Jane was given the option to choose to help someone (her sister) but refused because she prioritized herself over her and came to regret that the decision for the rest of her life (until she fixed it later I guess, but even then she still took the lessons she learned from the incident and carried them with her for the rest of her life). I also always like that Mary Jane's life doesn't revolve around Peter, she is not a superhero, a journalist, a cop, or anything like that, she is a model and an actress, and that's what she wants to be, and that's fine, she doesn't need to revolve her life around Spider-Man to be with him. It's just sad to see how much this character had lost her identity at this point…
It because marvel hate red head girl Mary Jane to was alway Peter soulmate she knew Peter not just physically but mentally she kept grounded when he was at his lowest and brought she became loving and supporting wife for Peter that Mary Jane I like
I’m the opposite. I hate 616 MJ cause I frankly don’t find she and Peter to be at all romantic. First, they only get along after Gwen’s death making it a pretty flimsy bedrock of a romance especially when they have nothing in common and Mary Jane was a horrible bitch to Harry prior to Gwen dying. Then when Gwen dies Mary Jane suddenly warps into a nicer person as if she assumed Gwen’s traits. It only gets worse when MJ reveals she knew all along before Peter met her that he was Spider-Man. Frankly that drains any romance from the dynamic for me. She never ever would have wanted Peter Parker if not for him being superhuman. I could buy Gwen loving him cause she liked Peter for how he was as a guy without knowing his secret (their romance in 616 wasn’t perfect either, frankly none of his 616 romances are actually healthy). Conversely, I think the Raimi relationship is better cause we see that he and MJ hit it off without having to be bonded by the death of his first girlfriend and she’s not as nasty as 616 MJ behaved in her “bitch years” and they don’t have to retcon an excuse for her being flighty since it’s it’s own universe where she is introduced with a home life in mind. And they left the shitty “I knew the whole time” malarkey out. That and Kirsten Dunst is a good actress. The movies just botched it by not having them stay together for enough time to buy that they can weather any problem. Preference goes to Andrew and Emma’s romance in the Webb movies but I still liked MJ and Peter in the Raimi movies.
@@Nightman221k most of what you say I would agree with, except for the "she never would have wanted Peter if he wasn't super human" part. In the 60s-70s run of Spider-Man, all women wanted Peter after they met him, the dude even out played Johnny Storm and stole his girlfriend, Flash's main beef with Peter, was that Liz had eyes for Peter. MJ would have been no different from any other Gwen, Felicia, or Betty.
*editors The editors tell them the ideas, writer can't really do much, especially if they themselves don't feel it but need the money, are on a time crunch and need to grab attention immediately. For a single issue no less.
Your whole video is BRILLIANT, thank you so much for showing how much character development there was for Mary Jane. Your final scene, SpiderMan no more, is how I feel.
This is why I enjoyed the 60th birthday story so much in issue #1000 because it was portraying Mary Jane and Peter together sure but spider man had progression as a character.
This was a great critique. I’ve stopped and started reading Spidey many times. The writers have no idea what to do with him. It’s very upsetting since Peter Parker is the best character in comics. I just recently dropped the Zeb Wells run.
That’s not really comparable at least not yet. Norman has been on the straight and narrow since his sins were taken from him by Sin Eater then transferred to Dr.Kafka.
@@somethingfunny2199 it’s still Norman friggn Osborn!!! You know how much fd up sick stuff he’s put Pete through? Not to mention he just ransacks the city with Goblin nation. He’s the baddest of the bad. When DC made Lex a hero it was dumb. Writers keep trying to win sympathy for the scummiest bad guys. It’s just dumb.
@@RamManNo1 Do you think Peter doesn't know that? He may have taken the suit and is working for Norman's new company, but he hasn't completely put his trust in him. Every interaction between the two about this Hobgoblin situation cements how wary he is of Norman and when Peter sees him become the Gold Goblin it's going to raise flags. Even if he's being heroic, Peter will mostly likely see it as another Iron Patriot moment as the whole concept means he's going back on everything he told Peter when explained the new Spider-Man Suit
@@somethingfunny2199 Normon has been on the straight and narrow 50 times in the past. He killed Peter's Daughter, brother (Clone.) and Gwen. This isn't like Superman being friends with Lex, it's like batman being friends with Jokers. Spider-man's character is beyond being redeemed at this point.
Ngl the last time I found spidey comics interesting was when Peter and symbiote bonded again after flashes death. It was so cool seeing Peter and venom come full circle a relationship that started off parasitic that become mutualistic. I wish that was a permanent change for the character but nope.
Remember how good Stracyzynski’s Spider-Man story was and how it took the “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” to the max and how it really fleshed out MJ and Aunt May and gave them a lot more depth as well as making MJ’s and Peter’s relationship a lot more special and giving Peter a lot more depth. I miss that type of Storyline for Spider-Man. I also miss a Spider-Man storyline like Ultimate Spider-Man’s storyline as well.
>Superman having a family. >Goku beats up more aliens and gods. >Invincible is going great. Oh, Peter. I guess some of your fellow mainline heroes have left thou behind.
It's shit like this that keeps people from getting into comics. If the characters aren't allowed to grow or change, then why bother getting invested? Also, fuck Gwen Stacy. The only interesting she did was die. Although Spectacular Spider-Man Gwen and ITSV Spider-Gwen are cool.
I struggle to get into Marvel/DC comic books now days. Partly due to a lack of comic book shops where I live sure, but also because I find it hard to find enthusiasm to go back and read 70 odd years of comic books to get really invested in these characters when most of the characters have been downgraded or assassinated and most stories or ideas have been retconned, removed from continuity or just being used as nostalgia bait now days.
That's why I tend to read Dc comics more, because they are more "clear" when they are reboot something like with Crisis on infinity earths and Flashpoint, so you know where to star it and where to finish it
I wish I could give this video a million thumbs up because I could not agree more! In my opinion, the phrase, "With great power comes great responsibility," would not have become as iconic as it is if "responsibility" was not synonymous with "sacrifice" when it comes to Spider-Man. Certainly, part of that sacrifice comes in the form of deteriorating relationships, but the important part is that Peter used to come out a wiser, more mature person and a better superhero because of that. It's sad that some writers seem to focus more on the former and almost disregard that latter. Peter struggling to balance his normal life and superhero life is relatable because (for the most part) we've all had our own struggles. That relatability is part of the draw of Spider-Man compared to other superheroes, but that shouldn't come at the cost of the main draw of most superheros (i.e., being a person or standing for something we can all aspire to be). For me and my friends, Spider-Man hit home not only because he struggled in life as we all do, but because he persevered and bettered himself, and if a regular guy who just happened to get spider powers could tough it out through battles with mad scientists with mechanical arms and black goo from space, then we could all make it through whatever our own lives threw at us. Instead, we have to watch Peter get beaten down, again and again, rehashing the same story lines that you mentioned. "Sacrifice" is no longer a reason for me to admire Spider-Man; rather, "sacrifice" is now a reason for me to pit him.
Renew Your Vows is always gonna be my fav Spider-Man comic. It shows the life of the Parker family. His family isnt perfect, of course. They arent rich, sometimes they fight and argue and they face hardships, but they face it together as a family. Peter is happy with MJ and Annie. Thats whats important. It gives me hope that maybe 616 Peter would experience this happiness.
Spider-Man has been spinning his wheels for decades. Editorial refuses to let him change and grow: they're keeping him stuck as a sixteen year old loser who's perpetually down to his last dollar and bad with women. Even when he does finally do something different like get married or start his own company, they quickly reset him to the status quo he was at in the 1960s.
Part of the reason of why I enjoyed Spider-Man (PS4) so much was that it understood all of the characters SO WELL while updating them for the 2010s. It's really surprising for me that the editors in charge of spider-man comics, who have the single job of making these stories enjoyble and profitable, can't possibly do the same
It's because the ps4 game developers and ITSV writers made those pieces of in homage to a character we all love. Some Spider-man comic writers write to make money/to market. Which is why they will never be able to make a good spider-man story.
THANK YOU for this video!!! Couldn't agree more!!! How does these "Writers" and "Editors" continue to have jobs is "Beyond" me... We live in an era, where "the hell with pleasing the auidences"... So sad....Amazing Spider-Man USED to a comic book that I couldn't wait for the next MONTHLY issue. Haven't nor will pick this up anytime soon....
The worst part I though the first arc of Wells stuff first issue barred was but then as soon at it ended its like a switch was flipped and then bomb after bomb released.
Spider-Man along with most marvel heroes are usually character driven stories. While it usually makes the character more relatable it also puts a time limit on the stories because eventually the character will be done growing.
I’m a huge xmen reader and always loved Spider-Man and read McFarlane run growing up. And this video nailed exactly my thoughts on why I’m having trouble enjoying Spider-Man under the weight of its history and what I should read as I mine the classics. Contrasting this to xmen and it’s reboots snd eras and what works sound amazing and gives me my own ideas of how to frame my own comic history ideas I’ve been wanting to put out there. Great job.
Ah, I have felt like this for so much time! Thank you for the video. I’ve been reading Spider-Man for a long time and kept going not because of enjoyment but to see what is up. My favorite super hero is Spider-Man but my favorite comics have been the last run of admen in Krakoa and Immortal Hulk. Spider-Man has been pretty difficult to read for more than a long time.
I stopped reading the new run after issue 4. This Peter Parker and Spider-Man versions are incredibly lame and reading the comics is depressing. Everybody hates Spider-Man and Peter Parker in the comics and the creators seem to be just working for a check, there is no heart in the comics.
"...and since Dan Slott is writing, a lot of them have to be cynically killed off for shock value." THANK YOU. Spider-Verse is genuinely one of my most hated comics ever and that's a major reason why. When I heard you say that, I knew I had to like the video.
I dont hate Spider-Verse, but the comic is really boring. Spider-Geddon is even more boring. The villains are laughable. A vampire family who eats Spider-people? Its so stupid. Thank god Spider-Verse movie didnt follow the comic. The only thing i like about Spider-Geddon is we got Spider-Girls tie-in. Seeing Mayday Parker interacts with Annie Parker makes me happy.
Yh Peter was also supposed to be a character that GREW with every struggle. He is NOT about "TrAgEdY"...he is about GROWTH and modern writers AND fans have FORGOTTEN that. Tbh I blame the Raimi movies for WASHING OUT the HEART of Spider-Man away. That being the compelling story of a child who lost his parents, and was forced to be a man after losing his uncle, giving him IMMENSE Anger and Detachment issues BUT STILL CHOOSING to GET UP and continue on like everyone else
The funny thing is if they wanted to have a young single and his 20 Spider-Man running around they could have brought back Ben Riley before one more day.
@@windghost2 but they got a first make miles his own character rather than a color swap of Peter Parker. And give him his own villains quit trying to recreate old famous Peter Parker Spider-Man stories
@@redrussell2159 Saladin has done a good hob of giving Miles his own problems to deal with and a good supporting cast too. I definitely agree with the clone saga though. But I am excited for Miles's new run coming in December.
Marvel has miles, we love miles, there’s no reason to keep rebooting Peter’s character and life now. Spider verse gave us a glimpse of how awesome an older more mature peter can be, and seeing him mentoring miles has so much potential for new stories, and the storyline when peter and MJ had a kid who became spider-girl was pretty well received, in the main 616 universe I’d love to see Spider-Man being something passed down as these characters grow and evolve out of it. Like Peter mentors Miles, Miles eventually mentoring may, Annie, or whatever they name their kid. The Bat family works for a reason and having those close connections and complex relationships can really improve the quality of the Spider-Man stories we get.
It's funny when I watch video commentaries like this and online blogs and posts that share the same sentiment I have to chuckle. Not because you are not 110% correct in your assessments but because as an old man who was once a young man who followed Spiderman adventures religiously I jumped off of the Spiderman bandwagon with the notorious One More Day storyline and never looked back. I was told I was overreacting and would come back eventually because the powers that be would be proven right over time. Except the exact opposite has been proven true over time and I get a chuckle every 5 years or so when a new wave/generation discovers what I learned at the time. Which is, Marvel publishing ruined the character but are too pinheaded and stupid to admit they were wrong. So instead of fixing the issue they continue on with the charade that everything is fine and they have everything well in hand..... ✌🏾✌🏾
Exactly this! I still buy a spider book every blue moon for the cover alone. But can´t read them anymore. Peharps I wasn´t the target audience anymore; or maybe I am just too old for Marvel books now. The movies still kept part of the character´s spirit though. Invincible realy is the ultimate Spider-Man story, as sad as yhis sentence may sound.
Lot of western writers are boring when it comes to writing relationships nowadays They think the only thing you can do to shake things up in a story is the couple having marriage/relationship issues and argue for some reason
Straight up, outside of maybe the occasional storyline, I know so little about post OMD Spider-man because I hated the retcon, and Dan Slott's just alienated me more. Everything before I know like the back of my hand.
The way to fix this is simple yet Marvel editorial for some reason doesn't wanna fix it. Nick Spencer's run seemed like it was trying to fix these issues and move Peter's life forward (too bad many people overlook this about his run) but for some reason marvel editorial just decided to tear everything apart again
These are the comics they reset the character over,and over,and over,and over ,and over and again until they finally stop existing. I am suprised that you didn't mention Spiderman life story is basically "what if statuos quo was not a thing "in the comics Peter started in the 60 as a teenager and end in 2019 as old man with a wife and two children
Death of Jean DeWolff and Kravens Last Hunt era are peak Spider-Man. Peter was still a humorous and quirky character- but he and his stories had evolved some maturity and sophistication. These days Spidey is often an inane Deadpool-lite. Voting with wallets doesn't work with modern Marvel because they hate the fans and look for any opportunity to defame them. All they care are the mindless masses on twitter. Which means endless cringey memes and regressive alignment with the movie versions.
Dude you hit nail right in the head. I actually dropped the TASM book during the beyond run. It was boring and I knew pete would come back but as soon as I heard he broke up with MJ I'm like nah fam. I quit the book until I see some growth from pete.
The Problem With Spider-Man Comics Today: Milking the same characters for over half a century. Stories have no endings. No stakes. No consequences. Rehash. Retcon. Reboot. Multiverse is a curse. More you use it more it ruins the story. Writers and readers need to have a spine and put an end to the story and move to the next project. Won't be surprised if average comic book reader now is ~35 years old.
I think the best situation would be something like OG Ultimate Spiderman for teenage wall crawling and ASM grown, mature, with Mary Jane etc. Which we had briefly in the early 2000s before One More Day etc.
I really hope things don't really fall apart between these two. I love Peter Parker and MJ being together. They are one of Marvel's iconic power couple for God's sake!
It’s because the writers themselves are stuck and haven’t grown up. You can’t force writers to provide what they’ve never had the guts to do for themselves.
I don’t read comics sadly, but I love Spider-Man and this irks me to no end that he isn’t allowed to have a happy ending. It’s fine to show the struggle and overcoming the pain and hardships which is why Spider-Man is my favorite hero. However, just doing the same thing over and over again and making him suffer is getting old and tiresome. I want one storyline to end with a happy ending with Spider-Man with loving with his wife and kid and ending it there. The world’s depressing enough and Peter has suffered enough. Great video. Also, love the use of the Parasite Eve game soundtrack. Really fitting.
Recently read the Civil War portion of the Amazing Spider-Man run from JMS, and my jaw was dropped. It was so tense that even though I knew where it would go I still felt like I had no idea the exact path it would take. It was so good, if Aunt May really did die and Peter have to reconcile with the guilt of that it would have possibly been the greatest comic to ever be written. Instead we got OMD and all that. Such a shame
I just got home and it’s too much to say that I cannot put into words because I’m tired, but this video hit a lot of points well and it makes it clear that Peter deserves the life that the writers constantly take away from him. Mary Jane deserves the life that the writers constantly take away from her. And I will be done with comics for at least a decade if they ever take away what they’ve given mutants and Eddie Brock in terms of development.
That's something that deeply bothered me. Eddie and the symbiote got their start with Spidey. But they've ascended so far beyond him, they are cosmic level entities now. I never cared for Bendis's direction on the symbiotes, I hated it. But I hate the Knull and God of Symbiotes tripe even more. You have a classic Spider-Man character so far outstripping their origin and theme and even namesake that Venom is no longer comparable to Spider-Man. If the former were satellite, the latter would be a one-story house. The former is a 'symbiotic god', the latter is ostensibly worse off than he was as a teenager. But this is because they allowed Eddie and the symbiote to develop. Personally I preferred Flash-Venom's adventures in Jersey, pre-space knight Venom. That was just enough. But the development afforded to everyone BUT Peter is so unfair.
You have a good point. Represented me, because I do feel like that about comics. Yet, I think we feel like this, because comics are a product which are not made for us anymore. The time pass, you know? Just a perspective, just like yours.
If you wanna see a more positive video because of this one:
Top 10 Classic Spider-Man Suits (Including The Lost Spider-Man Costume)
ruclips.net/video/XgAAU07pKDM/видео.html
Remember when Peter and MJ got married in the 80s and were a chaotically adorable couple in the 90s? Good times
married 1987 - 2007
I blame Sam Ramie
The most annoying time given her 90's personality
One of the best eras in the history of the comic.
@@Vendetta419 It's hard not to be annoying to the reader when you want to stop your superhero boyfriend from getting hurt
Ruining Peters relationships for the sake of artificial drama is boring and I’m glad you made this video. Subscribed
Well it’s all artificial drama, but recycling the stories makes the character stagnant and endlessly revisiting the same 10 villains has worn very thin.
Its why peter b parker from spider verse is my favourite peter
@@matthewconlon2388 of all the villains introduced when they said “no old villains” I need you to name which one has become popular that isn’t Mr Negative.
They may be stale but these people aren’t creative enough to make new interesting characters
@@creed8712 - I guess maybe Menace.
@@matthewschwartz6607 who the hell is Menace?
Spider-Man is like Daredevil and Batman in that every time he finds happiness with his life, the writers will always tear it away from him to make him as miserable as possible for the sake of cheap drama.
Edit: You can apply this to Hulk, Moon Knight, Wally West, the X-Men, Venom, Ghost Rider, The rest of the Bat-family…really, practically any hero who’s been published long enough by Marvel and DC.
Which is depressing, since all of these characters SHOULD be happy. I'm tired of the status quo at this point.
@@windghost2
We all are, buddy. We all are.
@@windghost2 same here it getting real old
God I hate that. LET BATMAN BE HAPPY. Jesus, everytime you see him he’s always depressed and alone despite having the single largest network of heroes around him. It also sucks all the nuance out of him when he’s just a brooding crime-stopper 24/7. Tom King could’ve had something with the wedding storyline, but he fumbled the ball big time and then dropped it off a cliff with City of Bane.
@@a_fine_edition2746
To be fair, the wedding wasn’t completely his fault. It was cancelled via editorial meddling. However, City of Bane is completely on him.
I recently started reading Spider-Man comics, starting from the beginning. I just got to about 1980. One of the interesting things about Peter Parker was he had forwards momentum in his life. He gradually grew up from a kinda resentful teenage nerd to a confident college student. Where I'm at, he's got his bachelor's degree and become a TA. I've read a few things past it like Kraven's Last Hunt and I see that Peter did continue to evolve.
I also just finished rewatching the 90s cartoon. Even there, Peter grows and evolves. He even gets married to MJ (but there were some shenanigans involved)
But modern Marvel seems terrified of having their major characters experience genuine, realistic, life altering changes.
I have also notice powerful people in the Marvel office have somehow fetishized Peter's teenage years. Before I started reading the comics, I was just a casual fan through movies and cartoons and only knew about the comics through online discussions and Marvel press. I always assumed Peter spent a significant period of time in high school and that's why these editors are so obsessed with teen Peter.
But no. Peter graduated from high school in issue 28. He spent 5x more time as an undergrad in college than he did in high school. Gwen, who modern Marvel editors are also obsessed with, died in issue 121. Peter has much, much, much more history and important moments with MJ than he ever had with Gwen.
Nothing about Peter's arrested development makes sense. Not narratively, not in a business context and certainly not when it comes to making readers happy. Marvel ran off many readers with OMD. If they did publish a story where Peter and MJ get back together (for real) then that comic would sell hundreds of thousands. But the people who run Marvel let their stupid, childish biases keep their readers in a constant state of wishing for something Marvel refuses to give them. Sometimes you should just give the customers what they want.
I agree marvel need to grow up let Peter and Mary Jane get married have kid stop playing with fan emotions be married is relatable the people at office don’t know what the hell their talking about because those people can’t grow up and move or they personal issues many of us want a married Spiderman so give it back to us
I couldn’t agree more. I was basically in your position for a lot of my life, never really delving into the comics side of Spidey and sticking more to the mainstream. So I just assumed a majority of the character’s history was stuck in permanent youth. But seriously, what is up with the constant return to teenage Peter in high school? Some of the best Spider-Man content is when he’s a grown man, married and out of school.
I feel like it all comes back to Stan Lee’s initial pitch for the character. At the time, teenagers were never anything more than sidekicks in comics, so Stan’s idea of a teenage hero was revolutionary. But that doesn’t mean the character isn’t allowed to grow. Part of the reason Peter sticks with us is watching him mature into a man.
But the writers seem dead set on sticking as close to the original concept as possible by constantly reverting him to a high schooler. It’s genuinely maddening. Peter was married for more than 20 years in real-time. Before all this constant resetting started, there’s legitimately more content with him as an adult, and it’s awesome.
I trully wonder if they ever read any forums or just watch a youtube video. I can't read older comics bc I don't like the art style and the letters and all make my eyes hurt, so I focus on the modern ones. As the video said, Spencer's run wanted to evolve Peter, so you're going to love that one. I know I did.
It feels like around the 2000s era is where he started to stagnate. Certain things always stayed the same, but they definitely didn’t have this “status quo is God” writing they do now for some reason.
I think the main deal is that these American Comic book Superheroes have an extremely strong Pop-Culture significance.
Spider-Man is one of the more recent characters in the American Superhero Pantheon. He came out in '62. Stan Lee was 40 years old when he conceptualized and wrote the character!
It's been 60 years since he's been a hero. That's is like 3 lifetimes worth of time for a character to have a realistic growth. People usually don't realise how long that is. There's has been at least one Spidey comic book coming out monthly since the past 60 years!
These characters hold almost a god-like status in the American culture (since they don't really have their own mythology, so these characters are the next best thing). I'd say Spidey actually got world class treatment for a character who was essentially a newbie, the odd one out, and no way as traditional as the classic respectable vintage Superheroes.
Compare that with any other character. Nobody really gave a shat about Deadpool before the Films, Wolverine wasn't even the best X-Men character, Daredevil was an incredibly niche character, Moon Knight was only remembered for Web of Shadows, Captain America was pretty much a walking Plot Convenience, 90% of the general population didn't know who tf Thor is (the character, not mythology), and Iron Man was only seen as a 2nd grade Hero with a cheap armour.
Even the most diehard DC fans are chill with Spidey. You gotta have hit Homerun many times to do that.
The average comic book reader only does so for 4-5 years, before they either grow out of it, or pursue the media without following the comics.
Double that with the amount of time Spidey has existed. That's about 120 Generations who diligently followed the character's comic book shenanigans (not even counting the people who are casual readers.)
Althought it is true that since 90s onwards, the concept of superheroes have become a household name globally because of the cartoons and films from the 2000s onwards. When I was a kid, i was one of the very few kids who knew characters other than the Trinity (Batman, Superman, Spider-Man). I was the only one who knew about Iron-Man, Silver Surfer, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc. And this wasn't even too long ago, only 2 decades.
The comics are like a paradox. At one end, you have stories and characters which have become an integral part of America. But on the other end, these characters have been written about constantly for so long, that the current generations get burnt out seeing them carry on for so many decades without the signs of permanent ageing and growth.
Moreover, how do you even age Comic characters? Let's say the clone saga was permanent and "Peter Parker" was replaced by Ben Riley. 25 years later, some kid reading "Spider-Man" will get curious and search the internet to learn more about the character's history because he loves this Superhero. Suddenly, he realises that the Spider-Man he followed isn't even the original Spider-Man, let along the "real" one. How do you work with that? When that kid reads more about Peter Parker, slowly walking back to the point of where his story began, won't that kid feel confused?
Or a scenario where Spider-Man is 45 years old. Almost a middle aged man, with a wife and a teenage daughter. For them, the Uncle Ben and Aunt May significance is replaced by Peter and MJ/Gwen/Cindy/Felicia. They'll become used to seeing Peter tryna balance his home life and Superheroes duties. It wouldn't be as easy anymore, since he has to earn a living to support his family too. So he can't be like "Whoops, gotta skip class to save the city".
I think such concepts won't have a long lasting effect on the superhero's case in the long term. That's why most of such stories are done by parallel books or their own seperate storyline, away from the canon 616 Mainline counterpart.
You can even see this dynamic when comparing The Amazing Spider-Man with Ultimate Spider-Man. Both are brilliant books, one having much more history than the other, with the other much more well written and modern. For a generation of comic book fans, Ultimate Spider-Man was the definitive version of the character (including me). It is angine example of how you can work around the formula as long as it doesn't replaces the original, and is its own seperate thing.
I think that's the best way it can work.
What's extra frustrating about refusing to allow 616 Peter to grow and change is...the Ultimate line was created for this exact reason (give readers a young Spidey). And now there's Miles in 616...there are so many characters to tell "young Spidey" stories with...it's just maddening that they also refuse to let Pete grow.
The worst thing about spider-verse was that it's success would bleed more of this stuff into 616 and make everything even more convoluted. Spider-verse made the wise (and obvious) decision to have these characters be from different universes, a time honored tradition of comics and how they existed in the first place, what brain damaged exec at Marvel said "we need more of this!" and instead of just printing more ultimate/what-ifs/alternate universe issues decided to dump everything into 616?
I'm reminded of Miguel travelling back in time (and across universes??) to 616 for his sticker book adventure full of literally nothing we enjoyed about 2099.
Dan Slott: Spider-Man Writer to Lolcow
ruclips.net/video/VPhfqj4ZsYw/видео.html
How anyone can say Gwen Stacy is Peter's greatest love baffles me. It's like they never even read a single comic that includes MJ in it. From the stories where she's written well and in character, you see what an amazing and perfect match she is for Peter. I really don't see how people can say otherwise.
Is because of Emma Stone's Gwen portrayal (that is basically Ultimate Mary Jane rather than Gwen) that people consider Gwen, Perer's greatest girlfriend.
@@uncannydcmarvelous5732 True. I will admit that Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield had fantastic chemistry as well
@Jorge Jones It's not stupid because MJ has been with Peter waaay longer. So that relationship has been fleshed out really well.
Gwen died and has stayed dead. How can you like Gwen for Peter when MJ is endgame and been with him and developed their own character. It's not bad to like Gwen but it's kinda dumb to prefer her over MJ
Okay, look. I'm all team MJ through and through...but knowing what was planned for The Spectacular Spider-Man does make me want a great Gwen Stacy relationship. Peter is a tragic hero, that's his whole shtick. Doing the right thing, missing out on what he wants, but getting what he needs. Greg Weisman outlined what he had planned for his show, and I think it's perfect for portraying exactly what I just said. Weisman said that he would have killed Gwen, and the loss of her as Peter's girlfriend and as MJ's friend would bring Pete and MJ together. If Gwen is killed because Peter is doing the right thing, this is a great example of what makes him such a compelling character. He does the right thing, he loses Gwen, but he gets MJ.
In a sense, if Gwen is Peter's greatest love, then that makes the stakes of losing her a tremendous loss. In so many of his stories, Peter gets his butt kicked when he first meets a new enemy, and then returns and wins. Every pattern is that both Peter and Spider-Man share a trait that losing is the first step on his path to winning. Losing what he thinks is his greatest love leads him to his perfect partner, and this is why even MJ fans should be able to get behind the idea that Peter thinks Gwen is his greatest love.
Now, if the WRITERS actually believe that she's his greatest love, then they're smokin' what they're sellin' and that ain't right.
Those fans are pretty much just movieverse fans comparing all of live-action spiderman's love interest and ultimately agreeing Gwen was Peter's best movie girlfriend.
It's pretty hilarious how One More Day continues to stand the test of time of as one of the worst decisions in comic book editorial history. As you and other comments have pointed out, it was woefully short-sighted. The worst part is that Miles Morales was right around the corner and could have easily taken up the mantle until Spider-Girl (May Parker) grew up to be old enough to be next in line.
It's honestly true though. OMD was a very damaging story for Spiderman and IMO they have not truly recovered from it. It's more than a marriage being nulled, it's the idea that an editor can just come and decide to undo decades worth of storytelling cause it wasn't like the stories they grew up on or in Joe Quesadilla's case, liked it best when Spidey was a single bachelor. Growth can't happen or moving forward with the character can't happen and editors can just come in and say scrap it.
@@Birdhouseart and the worse part about it is that marvel knows everybody hates but refuses to undo
Yeah, it's so bizarre how that decision was made given that there was an ongoing run, one of Spider-Man's absolute best if not the best entirely focused on Peter's earlier life as Spidey. They had zero need to do this to the 616 universe but they did it anyway for no good reason.
@@Birdhouseart OMD is like, THE example you use in an argument when you're debating the position that comic book characters need to be allowed to be sunsetted from main line stories. Cause if you don't, you get stuff like OMD.
Even before that, Ben Reilly was supposed to take over, but Marvel chickened out. They doubled down on OMD, though. Weird.
"Invincible" and "My Hero Academia Vigilantes" are very good Spiderman stories. It is a shame we have to go to other media for the Spiderman stories we're craving.
MHA Vigilantes is so perfect, it's crazy how much more I like it than the mainline series
@@2g4u56 I know bro. The main line series doesn't hold a candle to it.
Yeah, legitimizing francist monsters is so inspiring. Pretty “good” for a Spider-Man story😅
I hope marvel partners with horikoshi to make a spider man comic.
@@aidanshowers8366 read "MHA Vigilantes" - Horikoshi approved everything Hideyuki Furuhashi did while writing it. Furuhashi takes elements from Batman through "Knuckelduster" and Spiderman through "Koichi aka The Crawler."
Dan Slott sucks
He exclusively allows positive feedback and it doesn't matter how well worded what people say about his work is, he'll always block, deflect, etc.
And then he uses the people that shittalk him as examples as to why he blocks them, lumping everyone who has any good faith criticism with them.
Genuinely awful person.
He basically a bully
World will be a much better place when his triple bypass kicks his bucket, likely after his account goes up in flames after review by Elon's team
Didn't he also joke about how he barely does his own job in a documentary at one point? I remember a controversy about that. So refuses to accept criticism and doesn't do his job, a 'winning' combo.
@@MysteriousTomJenkins
Slott: "Ooh, a tweet!"
*This guy actually gets a premium salary.*
*WTF ARE YOU DOING DISNEY?*
I love a lot of the concepts he came up with, but his actual writing is pretty bad.
Dan Slott is truly the greatest Spider-Man villain of all. I'd say he did more to ruin Peter's name than Norman Osborn or Otto Octavius ever did.
There is even Great villain of Spider-Man comics. Editor that came up with "OMD" idea
@@user-vs5gb7pt3h Or every editor that, you know, thinks Spider-Man won't be "relatable" if he has at least a little bit of happines or character delopment in his live.
That J Jonah Jameson's job
Well it depends, Dan Slott is a good writter, but usually does not makes good decisions, Plus many of this thing werent all made by his choice alone
@@flaviapetrorossidefigueire6044 If he wasn't so gosh-darn GIDDY at fan-rage during the entire Superior event, I'd have an easier time believing you that he's a good writer lol
Yeah I’ve been feeling the same way. Nick Spencer’s run felt like an apology tour rather than a distinct run. But it ended hopeful to then put Peter in a coma during the beyond arc and now did something so horrible that Mary Jane broke up with him , got married and now has kids. It’s squidward torture porn but stretched out to months or years , it’s frustrating
As far we know she's not married to "Paul" at least nothing that indicates she is, and I 100% don't believe she is. as for the kids, there something's up with them, you have to remember that everything that's happened happened within 6 months. and the kids seems rather old to be six months more like 5-6 years old. and yeah, another part of the mystery box.
@@mjwp5447 Sal from Comic pop jokingly theorized that they were clones and I really hope not..
@@AkiDave Given that both kids resemble Peter and Mary Jane, and the age discrepancy, it's not out of the realm of possibilities.
@@mjwp5447 with Beyond & Dark Web, I’m sick of clones
You're not the only one
I remember a time when Spider-Man's adventures revolved around every day problems with stories that could be wrapped up in 1, maybe 2 issues. Yeah, not every villain of the week was a winner, but at least the adventures didn't revolve around Multiversal Spiritual Totems, clones, or whether or not Peter's deal with The Devil-Adjacent is going to be broken or not.
What really messed me up is that enough time has passed since the marriage that now, assuming no kid has ever seen a TV or movie adaptation, new readers will never understand why Mary Jane Watson is important.
I agree with this. The current Spider-Man comics run is going horribly so far. Peter as a character is regressing instead of developing. I'm not here to relate to a character(although some do), I'm here for Spider-Man's story... And the current Peter Parker is not even relatable anymore
He isn’t
Yep
Wait, so they undid whatever character development he had from the previous writer?
@@aimanrizal97 Yes. Spencer actually did a lot to get Spider-Man out of the continual status quo we've been in since One More Day, and arguably before. I'll admit maybe they didn't do so much in his run largely because his entire run literally felt like an apology for continuously fucking up Spider-Man year after year with dogshit-tier story after dogshit-tier story, but that is what was desperately needed for the character.
Then the Beyond run happened, which was... tolerable, until the very end which started to fall back into it. Then this new run debuted by showing that somehow, everybody now hates Peter Parker, including MJ, and she's like completely moved on from him and never wants to see him again. Again. For like the 44th time.
@@rookiedrifter4273 Man, the only way to redeem Peter is to kill him off immediately. This series has overstayed it's welcome. Thank goodness I stopped reading when he was hospitalised due to the radiation.
It breaks my heart that my favorite character in marvel comics Spider-Man keeps getting treated like garbage.
Their biggest character the one who outsells every other superhero can't even get a decent run
@@retronerds6884 indeed and frankly I've been saying for a very long time that marvel really needs to let Peter parker and Mary jane have there marriage return and also let them have their daughter Mayday parker Spider-girl alive and kicking in the mainstream marvel universe, mostly because if other characters like Wolverine Superman Batman and Wally west flash can be adults who are married and have children as well then the same logic can also apply to Spider-Man Peter parker and have him finally move forward as a character and be a adult and plus a bonus letting him finally being a parent would be a great progression for his character in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka like seriously batman being a father doesn't hurt his character neither does superman but marvel has the idiotic ideal he'll to be to old news flash he's a grown ass man he was only in high school for 30 issues the best thing about spider-man was that he was able grow that included aging spider-man life is regarded as one of the best modern spider-man stories for a reason nick spencer laid the format all marvel had to was follow through
@@retronerds6884 indeed and frankly a lot of people myself included want Peter Parker Spider-Man to move forward with his life and having him be married to his Wife Mary Jane and having them having there child Mayday Parker Spider-girl alive and kicking in the mainstream marvel universe is the right way to continue his stories and plus expands the meaning of what great powers must also comes great responsibility by passing on that lesson to their daughter mayday parker spider-girl makes sense and gives peter more responsibility as a parent and as a hero is the right way to go at least in my opinion. The point is what i am saying is this, marvel seriously needs to let there character Spider-Man Peter parker finally move forward as a character and letting be a parent is the right way to go with his story and also opens the door for more mature storytelling and finally lets him deal adult topics and also opens the door for Miles Morales Spider-Man to move forward with his story too by teaching peter's daughter how to control her powers would be really awesome and tons of fun at least in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka Exactly I agree with everything you've said they have miles he was made back in the 2010s he connects with a modern younger audience let miles be the young spiderman and Peter be the adult spiderman a married spiderman a spiderdad it's not that hard of a concept
The answer is right there for marvel: Let Peter grow up and use Miles to tell the younger stories. Spider-Verse did it. I know I have bias because I stopped reading monthly once OMD happened. I have read some TPB and there are good stories, but Peter needs to be able to grow, with or without MJ.
I agree. The fact that Marvel keeps Peter in his 20s and doesn't let him grow only to keep the status quo is annoying. Especially with Miles in 616. I'd love for Peter to grow more as a person and a hero again and eventually get back with MJ (If Marvel actually lets us have nice things again for once.) But what I truly want is Miles to also grow as both a person and as a Spider-Man.
Like he needs his own personal rouges gallery, people who are villains for materialistic reasons or people who just want to cause chaos. I don't care, just give him some more personal villains of his own. Like that viking dude from Ahmed's run or Starling (Sort of, I know that they're a couple now but you get what I mean) Miles is the *perfect* place for young Spider-Man stories and he has massive potential to grow into a great Spider-Man for his own unique problems to face different from Peter.
Like with his family life, he has a little sister now. Someone he'll look out for and be there to protect, both as an older brother and as a hero. But I also want him to develop his own style of fighting like Peter did with Shang-Chi, I want him to grow with his fellow super hero friends and do his best to make Peter proud as someone who shares the name Spider-Man with him.
Sorry I'm just rambling, I just want the best for Miles and it makes me sad that it doesn't happen that much or if at all.
But Peter also needs to grow up and actually get OLDER, something that ITSV didn't shy away from. I don't like the suffering he goes through in every new run, it's heartbreaking and sad that this happens. I've been keeping up with Spidey comics for years but not to the point where I'm actually reading them, but enough to where I know what's been going on and like you and everyone else I am disappointed with what's happening with Peter. Nick Spencer's run was considered the best till it ended (And the ending was sadly rushed) and it was undoing a lot of stuff done to Peter in the past. It was letting him grow as a person and a hero and sadly the new run has undone all of it.
At this point the *BEST* version of Peter (Asides from Insomniac's version) is Into The Spider-Verse Peter. I love that version of him and I can't wait to see him again next year in Across The Spider-Verse!
Sorry I'm done now.
i saw a comment once where it said have Miles be the younger, teenage stories, Kaine/Ben be the Young Adult Bachelor stories, and Peter be the Married Adult Father Stories, and I have to agree with it, it's time for Marvel to let Peter grow up an become an adult and hopefully a father, and let either Kaine Parker and Ben Riley take over as the young adult, and Miles so we could still get teenage Spider-Man Stories.
@@windghost2 they have something good with Miles, but like you said, Miles doesn’t have any rouges, memorable stories, etc because they won’t progress Pete and let Miles get his time to shine as well. PS4 Spidey made me respect Miles as a character, and ITSV made me root for the kid.
Peter is kinda like Dick Grayson and making him move on from Batman and have different stories helped him so much. The same can be done and was done prior to OMD. But now it can also help out Miles and it’s just missed opportunities at this point.
@@deltaovalpanda7805 that’s actually a great way to do it
@@bigcali4life I definitely agree with you on this. Since there's a new writer coming in for Miles in December, I'm hoping that Miles will get some new villains of his own, new problems and crazy situations for him to get through as Miles and as Spider-Man.
Cuz I'm losing hope for Peter at this point and I'm so sad because of that.
I don’t know the general consensus on the PS4 game, but I LOVED its story. Nothing has changed about premise of Spider-Man, but enough has changed to make the characters a bit wiser and more mature. Everything in the game is handled in a way that doesn’t dumb it down for a younger audience, but it’s also not needlessly edgy. I think it laid the perfect tone for Spider-Man stories to come, and I hope we’ll see some new writers taking inspiration from it.
many people say it's like a spider-man movie, and the best of them
It and Spiderverse almost feel like a counter to OMD.
@@chrystheo808
I guess if I have one complaint, it’s that things get a little bloated towards the end. I think the stakes were high enough with just Doc Ock and Mr. Negative, no Sinister Six needed.
Not in a million years, Insomniac’s Spider-Man ps4 game is the worst Spider-Man story in mainstream media. It’s worse than anything Dan Slott has written. It’s worse than Spider-Man 3, worse than both TASM movies, even worse than the mcu home trilogy.
@@JackOswaldWhite1940 Not Crazy Diamond can fix such shit opinions.
Nick Spencer did so well to bring Peter and MJ together. He even fixed his bond with felicia and developed her to the point that she admitted that She's not romantically interested in Peter but her bond with him is important. Now they messed up all that development by breaking MJ and Peter up whislt rekindling the Black-Cat romance. This completely backtracks on all of Felicia's development with both Pete and MJ. It's stupid writing fr.
Ultimately, Peter and MJ will get back together and it will completely destroy and negate all of Felicia's recent growth. It also makes the MJ and Felicia friendship awkward (I always found it weird that the writers are trying to make a friendship between them when they aren't willing to let Felucia let go of her feelings for Peter).
Ye0
I always prefer Felicia having feelings for Peter, wasn't jazzed by what Spencer did with her.
I would love to see him with Felicia as the new long term relationship, if MJ can't be allowed to happen.
I loved that one issue in which Felicia and MJ teamed up bc someone threatened to kill Peter, and by the end they had a better understanding of each other. Felicia confessed she's seen like the other woman and the bad influence and MJ laughed and said that's how they see her too and that they compared her to Gwen, who was dead.
Lol as they say "Buy Felicia."
@@prufan
Well looks like you'll be getting your wish since they seem to be doing it in this run for the long haul
Nothing is more marketable than a Spider-Man wedding and perhaps even a long term Spider-Dad story arc. Those books would make *BANK.* Make it happen Marvel.
Exactly. Like, we have such a great successor to the mantle in Miles already. Let HIM go through the teenage drama arcs now. Let Peter enjoy the middle aged superhero life he so desparately needs.
Him getting married, having a kid, building a solid family who love, trust and support him, these are all things I know spider-man fans would love for peter to have
We had Spider-Girl comics running and selling like crazy for years. Renew Your Vows and Life Story, both of which have an older Spidey who’s a dad, sold very well. JMS’ run showed that a married Spidey works. Marvel editorial is just stubborn as hell.
@@benl.4577facts Peter & Mj deserves better frfr
Anyone else notice how TASM Gwen is basically based off of old MJ and no one says anything? Adding to that the editorial disdain for MJ is down right atrocious.
Never knew that with TASM Gwen, but it makes me love her even more than I already did. And the editorial disdain for MJ is tragic. Why care SO MUCH about Gwen, when she literally died DECADES ago? And MJ's been with Peter longer, done more with him, seen him at his worst and lowest points in his life and has been with him through those times that she's a much better partner than Gwen because of those moments.
But the editorial department cares about Gwen more? Make it make sense!
Yep. Gwen acted A LOT like MJ in those movies. Glad I’m not the only one who sees it, too.
Fun fact Slott actually went out of his way years ago to block each and every follower of the spider-man crawlspace site because the podcast they do was super critical of him. They were arguably the most critical of him honestly.
honestly the current spidey artists deserve way more than what they're given, especially jrjr, he was one of j michael straczynski's main creative sources, sometimes even overpowering editorial demands.
Agreed. Though in JRJR's case, his work during JMS's run was so much better. And in The Lost Years too, but his style seems to have just homogenized in a bad way. Just my opinion though.
What makes his constant regression worse is that all his side characters do progress. Like Liz being a company owner, Jameson being mayor of NY, like how tf?
At this point, a fourth Tobey movie that shows his development through the 10+ years before No Way Home would convince Marvel to finally develop comic 616 Peter. There's also the Imsomniac sequel that I hope the MCU will go to that direction.
Dude who wouldn’t love a Tobey Spider-Man film? It’s so weird that DC has found their best success with one off films, and Marvel/Sony is could EASILY make the best, most wanted one….and yet doesn’t want to do it. 😂
The problem is that these editors are so in love with the Spider-Man that *they* grew up with-that being the lonely miserable loser-that they have this arbitrary need to reject any growth in the character. It honestly feels like these editors and writers are just projecting their miseries and woes on Peter rather than make compelling stories and characters.
Pretty much
The same happened in Dc with the flash
It's more like they're all obsessed with their idea of the character. Because every new run brings a completely different version of Peter who doesn't look, talk, or act anything like any previous version, and it feels like the writers are basically self inserting what they want the character to be and not who he actually is.
@@-Teague- pretty much or putting their personal problem into characters which wrong they need stop that now it not right
@@jacobrivera1721 I mean it's okay to reflect your personal issues into the story of a character to a certain extent, but when you do it so much that it changes the original characters personality that's too far
Unless marvel editorial changes their ways, 616 spidey is beyond hope.
And that’s sad.
Spider-man is one of the greatest superheroes of all time. He is a globally recognized icon by this point who is meant to inspire and be the best of the everyday person just getting by. So for his comics to just be, as you described it, misery porn is just depressing and infuriating on top of it.
Not really, I don’t think Spiderman has any real fans beyond the age of 17. It’s always for kids. Grown men usually go for Batman, Joker, Hulk, Supes, Iron Man …
@@jobsmine Calling bullshit on that. Spiderman is one of the most popular heroes of all time across all ages. He's one of the greatest heroes to have ever been made and is the most relatable. Anyone and everyone can relate and find common cause with Peter Parker, making him the eternal superhero everyone can turn to.
@@tobluetoblack again like I said popularity has nothing to do with a good superhero. Baby Shark Dance is the most famous song on RUclips because kids watch it day in day out. Spiderman is for youngsters that spend time on Disney and don’t go beyond anything their family haven’t allowed them to do so.
@@jobsmine What the hell does baby shark have to do with this? This sounds short sighted and cynical. If you don't like Spider-man just say it cause that's what it sounds like
@@jobsmine Your first comment didn't state your opinion on what makes a good superhero. You were saying that you didn't think spiderman had any real fans beyond the age of 17. Nathan commented that he believes Spiderman is one of the most popular heroes of all time across all ages because he was very relatable, and not just to kids, but upon many older people as well. Then your second comment states, "again like I said popularity has nothing to do with a good superhero." ...what? Where did you mention your thoughts on popularity amongst superheroes in your previous comment?
I have been reading Spider-Man comics my entire life and I could not agree more with you. You made all of the points that I have thought about the progress of him.
I have a question, how did you feel about the mcu Spider-Man being happy. I constantly hear from comic fans that Spider-Man shouldn’t be happy but should be suffering, yet him suffering is what is ruining the character
@@curtailedbike4123 I liked him having his happy moments for I feel that is a big part of the character as well, but I think he needs to move towards this path of pain. That is a big part of what makes him Peter Parker. He never gets to truly be happy. There's always the highs and lows for Peter. Spider-Man has been seen as a curse to Peter from time to time and I think that needs to be part of the character. Don't worry though, he'll have his time in happiness again. Just like real life, there are highs and lows.
The Spencer run was 2 steps forward. This is like 7 steps in the reverse.
Nick Spencer run was the last Spider-Man series I read. It was good that brought back classic characters and used them in a unquie way. PLus Peter and MJ getting back together and starting over felt right. Now were back to square one of Peter being the most unluckiest guy.
Maguire Spiderman looks like he's actually matured by the time of No Way Home, to the point that he's the wisest of the trio we see. That seems like a better development, to see beloved young up-and-coming heroes advance to the next stage of their Being as the wise guide to the next generation of heroes.
Funnily enough I'm actually not too sure what recent media still goes for that these days. There's a hideous streak of cynicism that tries to make our favorite young heroes grow up to be weak, disaffected, or short-sighted old folks that our newer heroes have to defy (though I'll admit I'm thinking mostly of Luke Skywalker in TLJ). Perhaps never letting our heroes grow up to become old is another manifestation of this broad cynicism against "the Old", if such a thing does exist.
It’s part of the trend where young characters in media have to defy the authorities. You really put it well about how if effects characters who ought to age.
An example of a hero turning “old” done well would be Superman in the recent comics. He doesn’t seem to be going anywhere anytime soon but he is written to be that of an older generation while his son Jon is clearly of the new. It works well highlighting differences without tearing Kal down.
A good instance is when Manchester Black expects Clark to start spouting a “better in my day” speech but Clark actually says “not at all, in fact I think younger generations are more aware of social issues today than we ever were. I am only encouraging you to use that drive in conjunction with your imaginations.” (Paraphrase)
Let’s just pretend the amazing Spider-Man ended with nick spensers run and Peter ready to grow up and get married and become a farther
I can agree with that.
Honestly had a feeling Spencer was like I’m retconning Sins Past & One More Day.
Editorial: Only Sins Past
Im stopping after Nick Spencer's run too.
Agreed!
Honestly, when this run ends I want someone to start the next with Peter waking up and being like "I had the craziest dream, it was so bad" and then move on right from where Spencer left it.
If you think Dan Slott's Spider-Man run was bad, boy... you wait until you read his Fantastic Four run 💀
Johnny Storm is in the same situation as Peter, not allowing Johnny to grow up and start a family of his own. Dan Slott had Johnny cheated on his soulmate by hooking up with Doom's bride a week before the wedding (which was so out of character for Johnny).
Oh! And Doom was going to marry someone who he sees as a daughter💀
What's even worse, is that when fans criticize his run and acknowledged how out of character Johnny was written, Dan Slott blocked them (me included) and then Dan tweeted "A healthy relationship? Who would want to see that?🤣"
Knew he was an asshole but Jesus.
Bruh 💀💀 That’s pretty toxic.
Wow
That whole arc for Johnny was HORRIBLE!! I really hoped there would be something around the corner for Victorious…heck even Johnny
@@monolith_g Let's not forget the fact Victorious is someone Doom sees as a daughter and Dan had Doom proposed to her 💀
My problem is that every time the writer switches, the new writer completely undoes the previous run, de-ages/deletes character growth, and introduces more bullshit drama. We just want it to go back to pre one more day, but it just keeps getting worse. Marvel marketing execs have ruined their comics again and again. They ruined the clone saga and they ruined civil war with one more day.
That's a problem with Western comics in general. Unlike Japanese manga,It's usually just one writer and one artist. DC also has that issue. I can only pick one Ann. It's Damian Wayne. In one issue they had him developing and stuff, but then a new writer came changed back into,His old self.
@@77wolfblade That's also very common with manga, a lot of the time there's just one guy.
@@77wolfblade that's because (Super hero) comics are meant to run forever, that's why I usually prefer alternative universes
"Imagine if you replaced all the mundane cast of Spectacular Spider-Man with other superheroes"
We already had that, it was called the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. And yeah, in my own opinion it was much inferior.
No joke. I stopped reading 616 Spider-Man after one more day. Glad to see I’ve made the right choice. It’s gotten worse then I thought
They way Spider-Man gets written you wouldn't think he's marvel biggest character
@@retronerds6884he still is it’s just he has shitty writers
@@jamichealruiz I know but still he's been a joke for the past 10 years
@@retronerds6884 I still like spidey tho 🕷🕸
@@jamichealruizsame here but that doesn't change the fact for the party 10 years spiderman has been shit with the exception of nick spencers run
As a long-time fan of the wall-crawler it genuinely hurts my heart because I just started getting into the comics again through Strazynskis run, which is relatable for 1 and AMAZING with it's writing! I loved how it's realistic in terms of the choices he makes and even the jokes have gotten a laugh outta me. I wish MARVEL would for once listen to us and our feedback so we'll finally have the stories we want to see. I now see why JMS is so revered as I keep going; he expands on the status quo, writes every character like a person- hell even the bad guys, and makes them progress. Honestly, might just hang back form ASM and write my own atp.
I miss JMS...and then you realize his run ended 15 years ago.
I'll have to check that out some time. My all time favorite writer is Micheline and I think ASM peaked with Micheline and McFarlane. I've always associated JMS with One More Day which isn't entirely fair because Joe Quesada called that shot and I've heard the run started strong.
@@Jose-se9pu I like his run it was best married Spiderman run ever
I completely agree with this video. There are things I want to add. I never understood why Marvel wanted OMD to happen. I get that they wanted to have more "relatable" peter, but they had Ultimate Spider-man and Marvel Adventures: Spider-man for that.
Because marvel is filled with a bunch of idiots this is the same company that pulled the no more mutant nonsense
There's a soviet cartoon I loved during my childhood called "three from Prostokvasheno". It's about a young boy who run of from home to live in a rural vilage with a talking cat and dog. One of the episodes had him write a letter home, only to be distracted by something and then cat or dog would write something in the letter instead of him. End result horrified his parents, because their boy apperently went so savage that he started shedding his fur among other things.
And that situation is basically a main problem I see in entire comic industry. Instead of a confined story penned by a single author with a singular vision and a defined endgoal, you have multiple writers and editors trying to pull character in their own direction, ending up in a confusing mess that drags on for generations.
What gets me is that Marvel Editorial argued that Peter Parker being a married man with kids wouldn't be relatable to readers, however Renew Your Vows proved that completely wrong!
True their excuses is bs
@@jacobrivera1721 Like hell yeah I wanna see Pete deal with the struggle of raising a family! Talk about untapped potential for stories. Keeping him single just has them redo the same plot threads over and over
@@TheArtSmith23 it becomes repetitive and annoying which is boring I want to see a married Spiderman with mj again
This is just a problem in general with comic books, never letting the status quo change. I'd love to see legacy heroes. Tim Drake becoming Batman, or when Ben Riley was going to take over as Spiderman. But alas, it's not permitted
This is an issue I have with superhero comics in general. The runs can be good sure, but the characters never age, the status quo is constantly preserved, and evil just endlessly respawns. You could argue that the movies, shows and games are an improvement that they don't have to keep going on forever and can have proper and possibly definitive endings. At least definitive as superheroes can get.
I’ll always choose Renew Your Vows over OMD. Peter is a good, responsible husband and father. He also later on becomes a teacher. True character development. Logan and Jean Grey also got married and had a daughter of their own.
Renew Your Vows is amazing. The dynamic between Peter, MJ and Annie is great. They genuinely feel like a happy family, a superhero family. Its great to see Peter and MJ learning how to be a better parents and Annie learning how to be a better superhero.
I just don’t understand why they can’t allow Peter to grow up and have a relationship with Mary Jane and balance a relationship with his super hero life? Stories like that are FAR more interesting then just making Peter struggle for the sake of making him struggle like we get it man. Do something different with Spider-Man already we have decades of stories with Peter struggling and having his life in shambles we shouldn’t be retreading this topic over and over again. It’s boring! Why can’t we see Peter as a father? Renew Your Vows was amazing and that’s the type of Spider-Man stories I wanted to see
Ironically Spider-Man’s success as a brand has become the comic character’s biggest downfall. He has to be stagnant so new readers can hop on wherever. It sucks and no matter how many more Spider-people they add to the Marvel universe to tread similar ground, it won’t change.
@@danielwood6833 I honestly find the other spider-people redundant when it comes to the kinds of Peter Parker stories that already happened. Honestly my most memorable Spider-Man was animated TV Shows, don't ask me why because each new Spider-Man TV Show restarts the entire story and puts him back at being young again, but maybe it's because those never go into continuity clusterf#4k territory when it comes to their territory.
I've held this opinion for a while; it's because they don't know how. Many of these writers have shown themselves to be... not great people, so when people ask them to come up with a healthy or loving relationship, they're at a complete and total loss. They've never been in one. They don't know how a happy couple acts. They just don't know how to write relationships and interactions between people that are healthy, because all of the ones they've experienced have been toxic.
Because change can is scary for profit. If they change things and get a writer that will let Peter growth maybe they'd get less money. It would be a gamble for them
Renew Your Vows is amazing. The dynamic between Peter, MJ and Annie is hilarious and wholesome. They really feel like a family, a happy one.
Spiderman died in OMD, he has been living in a constant loop since then, acting like a teenager despite pushing 30.
I remember a joke where someone said that the reason of Peter and MJ acting so out of character it's because the originals died in One More Day and the ones we've seen these years are Demons from Mephisto's realm replacing them
I think a lot of the public that doesn't read comics don't like Mary Jane because of the Sam Raimi movies turning her into a pretty annoying character, which is why there is more focus on other characters and why when we do see Mary Jane nowadays she either feels like a completely different character to how she was written back in the day (like how the MCU version of her doesn't even have the same name, let alone the same personality, and the insomniac version is more of a Lois Lane then a Mary Jane), or that she and peter just can't have a proper happy and stable relationship, which sucks.
Back when I was only familiar with the movies I very much hated Mary Jane and loved Gwen, because of that, but when I actually got into the comics I was shocked by how likable and interesting she actually was, don't get it wrong she is not perfect, but she is so much more interesting than you would think she is based on movies and cartoons.
I think that the idea that Gwen is Peter's eternal love is a fundamental misunderstanding of Peter's relationship with both Gwen and Mary Jane. Gwen and Peter could never have worked, they had too many secrets that they kept from one another (even before Sins past) and Gwen would have never been able to accept Peter's choices in life.
Mary Jane on the other hand is actually very similar to Peter, she is someone who constantly goes out of her way to help others even when it doesn't benefit her, from staying with Peter after Gwen dies even though he hurt her, to choosing to not tell him that she knew his identity for years just so that their relationship won't get tainted despite how much it hurt her. And it's all motivated by a similar incident to what motivates Peter to do what he does, just like him, Mary Jane was given the option to choose to help someone (her sister) but refused because she prioritized herself over her and came to regret that the decision for the rest of her life (until she fixed it later I guess, but even then she still took the lessons she learned from the incident and carried them with her for the rest of her life). I also always like that Mary Jane's life doesn't revolve around Peter, she is not a superhero, a journalist, a cop, or anything like that, she is a model and an actress, and that's what she wants to be, and that's fine, she doesn't need to revolve her life around Spider-Man to be with him.
It's just sad to see how much this character had lost her identity at this point…
It because marvel hate red head girl Mary Jane to was alway Peter soulmate she knew Peter not just physically but mentally she kept grounded when he was at his lowest and brought she became loving and supporting wife for Peter that Mary Jane I like
Hey, MJ is awesome in Raimi trilogy! Most people who hate her are stupid.
I’m the opposite. I hate 616 MJ cause I frankly don’t find she and Peter to be at all romantic. First, they only get along after Gwen’s death making it a pretty flimsy bedrock of a romance especially when they have nothing in common and Mary Jane was a horrible bitch to Harry prior to Gwen dying. Then when Gwen dies Mary Jane suddenly warps into a nicer person as if she assumed Gwen’s traits. It only gets worse when MJ reveals she knew all along before Peter met her that he was Spider-Man. Frankly that drains any romance from the dynamic for me. She never ever would have wanted Peter Parker if not for him being superhuman. I could buy Gwen loving him cause she liked Peter for how he was as a guy without knowing his secret (their romance in 616 wasn’t perfect either, frankly none of his 616 romances are actually healthy).
Conversely, I think the Raimi relationship is better cause we see that he and MJ hit it off without having to be bonded by the death of his first girlfriend and she’s not as nasty as 616 MJ behaved in her “bitch years” and they don’t have to retcon an excuse for her being flighty since it’s it’s own universe where she is introduced with a home life in mind. And they left the shitty “I knew the whole time” malarkey out. That and Kirsten Dunst is a good actress. The movies just botched it by not having them stay together for enough time to buy that they can weather any problem. Preference goes to Andrew and Emma’s romance in the Webb movies but I still liked MJ and Peter in the Raimi movies.
@@Nightman221k agree with u mostly but mj in those movies was fucking annoying and such a damsel holy moly
@@Nightman221k most of what you say I would agree with, except for the "she never would have wanted Peter if he wasn't super human" part. In the 60s-70s run of Spider-Man, all women wanted Peter after they met him, the dude even out played Johnny Storm and stole his girlfriend, Flash's main beef with Peter, was that Liz had eyes for Peter. MJ would have been no different from any other Gwen, Felicia, or Betty.
The writers are obsessed with minuscule and meaningless details like love trios or a high school lifestyle.
*editors
The editors tell them the ideas, writer can't really do much, especially if they themselves don't feel it but need the money, are on a time crunch and need to grab attention immediately. For a single issue no less.
It's like when they keep associating power rangers with teenagers but the seasons without teenagers are far better
@@JSmoothSoul exactly
Your whole video is BRILLIANT, thank you so much for showing how much character development there was for Mary Jane. Your final scene, SpiderMan no more, is how I feel.
This is why I enjoyed the 60th birthday story so much in issue #1000 because it was portraying Mary Jane and Peter together sure but spider man had progression as a character.
This is the problem with an story that never ends, it repeats itself over and over and oveeeeer
Me: "doesnt even know Dan Slott" Dan: "blocks me"
This was a great critique. I’ve stopped and started reading Spidey many times. The writers have no idea what to do with him. It’s very upsetting since Peter Parker is the best character in comics. I just recently dropped the Zeb Wells run.
Peter working for Norman is like Superman working for Luthor from Public Enemies.
That’s not really comparable at least not yet. Norman has been on the straight and narrow since his sins were taken from him by Sin Eater then transferred to Dr.Kafka.
@@somethingfunny2199 it’s still Norman friggn Osborn!!! You know how much fd up sick stuff he’s put Pete through? Not to mention he just ransacks the city with Goblin nation. He’s the baddest of the bad. When DC made Lex a hero it was dumb. Writers keep trying to win sympathy for the scummiest bad guys. It’s just dumb.
@@RamManNo1 Do you think Peter doesn't know that? He may have taken the suit and is working for Norman's new company, but he hasn't completely put his trust in him. Every interaction between the two about this Hobgoblin situation cements how wary he is of Norman and when Peter sees him become the Gold Goblin it's going to raise flags. Even if he's being heroic, Peter will mostly likely see it as another Iron Patriot moment as the whole concept means he's going back on everything he told Peter when explained the new Spider-Man Suit
@@somethingfunny2199 Normon has been on the straight and narrow 50 times in the past. He killed Peter's Daughter, brother (Clone.) and Gwen. This isn't like Superman being friends with Lex, it's like batman being friends with Jokers. Spider-man's character is beyond being redeemed at this point.
True
Ngl the last time I found spidey comics interesting was when Peter and symbiote bonded again after flashes death. It was so cool seeing Peter and venom come full circle a relationship that started off parasitic that become mutualistic. I wish that was a permanent change for the character but nope.
Remember how good Stracyzynski’s Spider-Man story was and how it took the “Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” to the max and how it really fleshed out MJ and Aunt May and gave them a lot more depth as well as making MJ’s and Peter’s relationship a lot more special and giving Peter a lot more depth. I miss that type of Storyline for Spider-Man. I also miss a Spider-Man storyline like Ultimate Spider-Man’s storyline as well.
>Superman having a family.
>Goku beats up more aliens and gods.
>Invincible is going great.
Oh, Peter. I guess some of your fellow mainline heroes have left thou behind.
It's shit like this that keeps people from getting into comics. If the characters aren't allowed to grow or change, then why bother getting invested?
Also, fuck Gwen Stacy. The only interesting she did was die. Although Spectacular Spider-Man Gwen and ITSV Spider-Gwen are cool.
Spider-Man will not survive to the next generation like this.
I struggle to get into Marvel/DC comic books now days. Partly due to a lack of comic book shops where I live sure, but also because I find it hard to find enthusiasm to go back and read 70 odd years of comic books to get really invested in these characters when most of the characters have been downgraded or assassinated and most stories or ideas have been retconned, removed from continuity or just being used as nostalgia bait now days.
We need to make our own heroes, Disney sure as f@ck won't let us keep them
That's why I tend to read Dc comics more, because they are more "clear" when they are reboot something like with Crisis on infinity earths and Flashpoint, so you know where to star it and where to finish it
I wish I could give this video a million thumbs up because I could not agree more! In my opinion, the phrase, "With great power comes great responsibility," would not have become as iconic as it is if "responsibility" was not synonymous with "sacrifice" when it comes to Spider-Man. Certainly, part of that sacrifice comes in the form of deteriorating relationships, but the important part is that Peter used to come out a wiser, more mature person and a better superhero because of that. It's sad that some writers seem to focus more on the former and almost disregard that latter.
Peter struggling to balance his normal life and superhero life is relatable because (for the most part) we've all had our own struggles. That relatability is part of the draw of Spider-Man compared to other superheroes, but that shouldn't come at the cost of the main draw of most superheros (i.e., being a person or standing for something we can all aspire to be). For me and my friends, Spider-Man hit home not only because he struggled in life as we all do, but because he persevered and bettered himself, and if a regular guy who just happened to get spider powers could tough it out through battles with mad scientists with mechanical arms and black goo from space, then we could all make it through whatever our own lives threw at us.
Instead, we have to watch Peter get beaten down, again and again, rehashing the same story lines that you mentioned. "Sacrifice" is no longer a reason for me to admire Spider-Man; rather, "sacrifice" is now a reason for me to pit him.
Renew Your Vows is always gonna be my fav Spider-Man comic. It shows the life of the Parker family. His family isnt perfect, of course. They arent rich, sometimes they fight and argue and they face hardships, but they face it together as a family. Peter is happy with MJ and Annie. Thats whats important. It gives me hope that maybe 616 Peter would experience this happiness.
616 Spider-Man is a clear cut case of flanderisation
Marvel just want Peter to be Spider-Man -Boy
Spider-Man has been spinning his wheels for decades. Editorial refuses to let him change and grow: they're keeping him stuck as a sixteen year old loser who's perpetually down to his last dollar and bad with women. Even when he does finally do something different like get married or start his own company, they quickly reset him to the status quo he was at in the 1960s.
I agree you
It’s such a shame how such a great hero who has so much character depth gets screwed over by writers and editors who don’t know what they’re doing
Part of the reason of why I enjoyed Spider-Man (PS4) so much was that it understood all of the characters SO WELL while updating them for the 2010s. It's really surprising for me that the editors in charge of spider-man comics, who have the single job of making these stories enjoyble and profitable, can't possibly do the same
It's because the ps4 game developers and ITSV writers made those pieces of in homage to a character we all love.
Some Spider-man comic writers write to make money/to market. Which is why they will never be able to make a good spider-man story.
THANK YOU for this video!!! Couldn't agree more!!!
How does these "Writers" and "Editors" continue to have jobs is "Beyond" me...
We live in an era, where "the hell with pleasing the auidences"...
So sad....Amazing Spider-Man USED to a comic book that I couldn't wait for the next MONTHLY issue. Haven't nor will pick this up anytime soon....
The worst part I though the first arc of Wells stuff first issue barred was but then as soon at it ended its like a switch was flipped and then bomb after bomb released.
Spider-Man along with most marvel heroes are usually character driven stories. While it usually makes the character more relatable it also puts a time limit on the stories because eventually the character will be done growing.
I’m a huge xmen reader and always loved Spider-Man and read McFarlane run growing up. And this video nailed exactly my thoughts on why I’m having trouble enjoying Spider-Man under the weight of its history and what I should read as I mine the classics. Contrasting this to xmen and it’s reboots snd eras and what works sound amazing and gives me my own ideas of how to frame my own comic history ideas I’ve been wanting to put out there. Great job.
I’m that marvel
Zombie xmen comic reader who loves Spiderman media more than the comics that you mentioned. Seen
3:04 "I'm not mad, it's funny, I'm seriously not mad, I don't cry myself to sleep at night"
Ah, I have felt like this for so much time! Thank you for the video. I’ve been reading Spider-Man for a long time and kept going not because of enjoyment but to see what is up. My favorite super hero is Spider-Man but my favorite comics have been the last run of admen in Krakoa and Immortal Hulk. Spider-Man has been pretty difficult to read for more than a long time.
I stopped reading the new run after issue 4. This Peter Parker and Spider-Man versions are incredibly lame and reading the comics is depressing. Everybody hates Spider-Man and Peter Parker in the comics and the creators seem to be just working for a check, there is no heart in the comics.
"...and since Dan Slott is writing, a lot of them have to be cynically killed off for shock value."
THANK YOU. Spider-Verse is genuinely one of my most hated comics ever and that's a major reason why. When I heard you say that, I knew I had to like the video.
I dont hate Spider-Verse, but the comic is really boring. Spider-Geddon is even more boring. The villains are laughable. A vampire family who eats Spider-people? Its so stupid. Thank god Spider-Verse movie didnt follow the comic.
The only thing i like about Spider-Geddon is we got Spider-Girls tie-in. Seeing Mayday Parker interacts with Annie Parker makes me happy.
Yh Peter was also supposed to be a character that GREW with every struggle. He is NOT about "TrAgEdY"...he is about GROWTH and modern writers AND fans have FORGOTTEN that.
Tbh I blame the Raimi movies for WASHING OUT the HEART of Spider-Man away. That being the compelling story of a child who lost his parents, and was forced to be a man after losing his uncle, giving him IMMENSE Anger and Detachment issues BUT STILL CHOOSING to GET UP and continue on like everyone else
The funny thing is if they wanted to have a young single and his 20 Spider-Man running around they could have brought back Ben Riley before one more day.
But now Ben Riley is a supervillain. At least his suit is cool.
Or focus on Miles being the younger Spider-Man and Peter being the older one.
@@windghost2 but they got a first make miles his own character rather than a color swap of Peter Parker. And give him his own villains quit trying to recreate old famous Peter Parker Spider-Man stories
@@redrussell2159 Saladin has done a good hob of giving Miles his own problems to deal with and a good supporting cast too. I definitely agree with the clone saga though.
But I am excited for Miles's new run coming in December.
"Spiderman has to join them and become part of the sinister seven, WHAT!". Meanwhile I'm like, are these guys unaware that ultimate six was a thing?
THANK YOU FINALLY SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT WHAT I HATE ABOUT SPIDER MAN STORIES
Marvel has miles, we love miles, there’s no reason to keep rebooting Peter’s character and life now. Spider verse gave us a glimpse of how awesome an older more mature peter can be, and seeing him mentoring miles has so much potential for new stories, and the storyline when peter and MJ had a kid who became spider-girl was pretty well received, in the main 616 universe I’d love to see Spider-Man being something passed down as these characters grow and evolve out of it. Like Peter mentors Miles, Miles eventually mentoring may, Annie, or whatever they name their kid. The Bat family works for a reason and having those close connections and complex relationships can really improve the quality of the Spider-Man stories we get.
It's funny when I watch video commentaries like this and online blogs and posts that share the same sentiment I have to chuckle. Not because you are not 110% correct in your assessments but because as an old man who was once a young man who followed Spiderman adventures religiously I jumped off of the Spiderman bandwagon with the notorious One More Day storyline and never looked back. I was told I was overreacting and would come back eventually because the powers that be would be proven right over time. Except the exact opposite has been proven true over time and I get a chuckle every 5 years or so when a new wave/generation discovers what I learned at the time. Which is, Marvel publishing ruined the character but are too pinheaded and stupid to admit they were wrong. So instead of fixing the issue they continue on with the charade that everything is fine and they have everything well in hand..... ✌🏾✌🏾
Exactly this! I still buy a spider book every blue moon for the cover alone. But can´t read them anymore. Peharps I wasn´t the target audience anymore; or maybe I am just too old for Marvel books now. The movies still kept part of the character´s spirit though. Invincible realy is the ultimate Spider-Man story, as sad as yhis sentence may sound.
I love the ending lmao. Subscribed!
Hey they all might be imaginary stories but some of them have a lot more imagination in them and others aren't even worth imagining.
What you've said here almost perfectly sums up why I've stopped buying spider-man comics anymore and gone back to re-reading my old favourites
Lot of western writers are boring when it comes to writing relationships nowadays
They think the only thing you can do to shake things up in a story is the couple having marriage/relationship issues and argue for some reason
Straight up, outside of maybe the occasional storyline, I know so little about post OMD Spider-man because I hated the retcon, and Dan Slott's just alienated me more. Everything before I know like the back of my hand.
The way to fix this is simple yet Marvel editorial for some reason doesn't wanna fix it. Nick Spencer's run seemed like it was trying to fix these issues and move Peter's life forward (too bad many people overlook this about his run) but for some reason marvel editorial just decided to tear everything apart again
These are the comics they reset the character over,and over,and over,and over ,and over and again until they finally stop existing. I am suprised that you didn't mention Spiderman life story is basically "what if statuos quo was not a thing "in the comics Peter started in the 60 as a teenager and end in 2019 as old man with a wife and two children
My problem is I cant afford to buy a book that I'm consistently disappointed with
Slight correction to the video that I thought I should add...
Those kids are actually her stepchildren, not her biological children.
Death of Jean DeWolff and Kravens Last Hunt era are peak Spider-Man. Peter was still a humorous and quirky character- but he and his stories had evolved some maturity and sophistication. These days Spidey is often an inane Deadpool-lite. Voting with wallets doesn't work with modern Marvel because they hate the fans and look for any opportunity to defame them. All they care are the mindless masses on twitter. Which means endless cringey memes and regressive alignment with the movie versions.
This is why comic books should actually have a conclusion, instead of going on forever.
Dude you hit nail right in the head. I actually dropped the TASM book during the beyond run. It was boring and I knew pete would come back but as soon as I heard he broke up with MJ I'm like nah fam. I quit the book until I see some growth from pete.
The Problem With Spider-Man Comics Today: Milking the same characters for over half a century. Stories have no endings. No stakes. No consequences. Rehash. Retcon. Reboot. Multiverse is a curse. More you use it more it ruins the story. Writers and readers need to have a spine and put an end to the story and move to the next project. Won't be surprised if average comic book reader now is ~35 years old.
I think the best situation would be something like OG Ultimate Spiderman for teenage wall crawling and ASM grown, mature, with Mary Jane etc. Which we had briefly in the early 2000s before One More Day etc.
You just said why I love Invincible.
RIP Spidey :(
I really hope things don't really fall apart between these two. I love Peter Parker and MJ being together. They are one of Marvel's iconic power couple for God's sake!
It’s because the writers themselves are stuck and haven’t grown up. You can’t force writers to provide what they’ve never had the guts to do for themselves.
I don’t read comics sadly, but I love Spider-Man and this irks me to no end that he isn’t allowed to have a happy ending.
It’s fine to show the struggle and overcoming the pain and hardships which is why Spider-Man is my favorite hero. However, just doing the same thing over and over again and making him suffer is getting old and tiresome.
I want one storyline to end with a happy ending with Spider-Man with loving with his wife and kid and ending it there. The world’s depressing enough and Peter has suffered enough.
Great video. Also, love the use of the Parasite Eve game soundtrack. Really fitting.
Recently read the Civil War portion of the Amazing Spider-Man run from JMS, and my jaw was dropped. It was so tense that even though I knew where it would go I still felt like I had no idea the exact path it would take. It was so good, if Aunt May really did die and Peter have to reconcile with the guilt of that it would have possibly been the greatest comic to ever be written. Instead we got OMD and all that. Such a shame
I just got home and it’s too much to say that I cannot put into words because I’m tired, but this video hit a lot of points well and it makes it clear that Peter deserves the life that the writers constantly take away from him. Mary Jane deserves the life that the writers constantly take away from her. And I will be done with comics for at least a decade if they ever take away what they’ve given mutants and Eddie Brock in terms of development.
That's something that deeply bothered me. Eddie and the symbiote got their start with Spidey. But they've ascended so far beyond him, they are cosmic level entities now. I never cared for Bendis's direction on the symbiotes, I hated it. But I hate the Knull and God of Symbiotes tripe even more. You have a classic Spider-Man character so far outstripping their origin and theme and even namesake that Venom is no longer comparable to Spider-Man. If the former were satellite, the latter would be a one-story house. The former is a 'symbiotic god', the latter is ostensibly worse off than he was as a teenager.
But this is because they allowed Eddie and the symbiote to develop. Personally I preferred Flash-Venom's adventures in Jersey, pre-space knight Venom. That was just enough. But the development afforded to everyone BUT Peter is so unfair.
You have a good point. Represented me, because I do feel like that about comics. Yet, I think we feel like this, because comics are a product which are not made for us anymore. The time pass, you know? Just a perspective, just like yours.