Netlix's "Pray Away" Documentary and the Ex-Gay Movement: W/ Tony Scarcello
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Netflix recently released a documentary on the so-called “Ex-Gay” movement, highlighting its lies and all the damage it’s done to gay Christians. What are the pros of the movie? And what are the cons? My good friend Tony Scarcello and I evaluate this provocative documentary.
Tony Scarcello is a pastor, speaker, and writer located in Springfield, Oregon. He regularly speaks at churches, camps, retreats, and conferences. Tony is also the host of the Regenerate Podcast and the author of the book Regenerate: Finding Jesus After Deconstruction. When he isn’t doing those things you can find him analyzing movies, reading theology, or spending time with his wife Kelsey, friends, and family.
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I’m encouraged by this discussion guys, I am gay single non practicing Christ follower but I have not shared any of this with anyone in my congregation as I feel it would change the way people look at me. I honestly wish I had more local friends that I could share the struggles with but, unfortunately I live in a part of the country that is full of cowboys and church goers who think everyone should be married with two kids. I’m already a black sheep because I’m not married. The Lord did distinctly tell me He I was to be single.
Praise God for your faithfulness! I know it can be a daily struggle to feel alone in your walk. As a sister in Christ, I would encourage you to give opportunity to your church to let them love you and support you completely! Oftentimes we forget that when we withhold our confessions and needs from the body of Christ, we rob fellow brothers and sisters of opportunities to grow in their own sanctification. What if certain people in your congregation need to learn how to love people that are different from them and what if God wants to use you to help them on that journey? By being a faithful follower of Christ, you would stretch others in your congregation and give them opportunities to be more loving and more Christ-like. We all need to learn more compassion for people and you could help them do just that.
Personally, I come from super Calvinistic and reformed teaching...and was raised in the Bible-belt of Texas. Preston's podcast has opened my entire world up to understanding Jesus' love and compassion in a way I could have never dreamed of! It's allowed me a space in the LGBTQ+ and race conversation that I had absolutely zero grace in previously. I am a living example that when a Christian comes face-to-face with someone like you, God can change their heart. He does great things when people like you trust Him to use your story to help people like me.
So thank you for sharing and I pray you rely on the strength of God to continue to be bold for Christ!
Don't lose hope don't give up it's a long road and there's a lot of things we think the Lord said at 30 and then 40 and then 50 and then 60 God may never change but we always change with new paradigms so cut yourself a break and don't be so hard on yourself and go get on a date. God says it's not good to be alone. And it isn't. You have to have a healthy sexuality and being in the closet is not healthy so I guess it's going to start there all right from a LGBT grandma. It does get better. 👍😇🌈🙏
Hey brother, never be ashamed of being single, SSA or not. And if lifelong celibacy is what God has called you to, then live consecrated to him. I encourage you to research Theology of the Body for more support. Check out Christopher West's book Our Bodies Tell God's Story.
Christian and other religious people need to stop saying gay people choose to be gay cuz trust me I didn’t and it’s really hard no straight person can under how it is.
Preach. I'm gay and maybe Christian. Everyone's so toxic in the conservative Christian community, it's hard to feel like I'm not betraying "my kind" by being with them.
I have a lot of thoughts about this episode-mostly positive. However, my one pressing thought as a gay person is in response to the script posited around 44:30; essentially, that script involves a gay person living in a state of singleness while also experiencing great intimacy with God, perhaps on account of being single at God’s apparent behest. In short, I have mixed thoughts and emotions about this idea.
For starters, how can a gay person be intimate with a god that puts such a great yoke around his neck? Why can’t a gay person experience intimacy with the metaphysical God while also having his need for connection in the physical here and now met alongside another physical person? I mean, others are afforded that life by God; after all, it has been said since the beginning that it is not good for a human to be alone. Simply, it seems like gay people are second class citizens under the rubric of a traditional Christian sexual ethic since we are not afforded the basics of intimacy that so many others are permitted; simply, basic needs for intimate connection among those who are here and now (physically present) go unmet, apparently at the behest of a god with whom we are then supposed to cultivate intimacy. Seriously, how can one be expected to be intimate with a god who can’t even meet the need for intimacy in his present physical reality; moreover, how can a person be intimate with a god who would rather withhold from him the ‘goods’ of intimacy experienced through a connection with another person in here and now? Again, how can a gay person be intimate with a god that puts such a great yoke around his neck?
The only response I can muster to this question is to keep trying from one moment to the next despite the emptiness. Admittedly, this is a lackluster response. So, I can’t really fault Side B Christians from converting to Side A in order to try to reconcile their lived reality in the here and now with the idea of God being a god of love in the present age of here and now and in the age to come.
@YrretsJ Thank you for voicing this question- I think it is at the heart of many people’s perspective..and perspective feeds feelings, shapes memories & influences choices.
The teachings about suffering and Christ, suffering & obedience, suffering & intimacy in the new testament are what show us Jesus loved us so much. He was willing to suffer even though He wanted out. He was willing to obey even though that meant rejection, isolation & suffering.
When we go through suffering with someone, that is a deeper intimacy than experiencing pleasure with them. So if we share the sufferings of Christ through obedience, even in rejection of our own desires, we can enjoy the intimacy of true trust in God & His ability to bring beauty out of our willingness to live and die with “unfulfilled desires” but knowing that we loved God enough to seek His desires at cost to ourselves - as He did for us. Beautiful reciprocity rather than one-sided sacrifice.
Maybe you’ve been in a human relationship where you were willing to sacrifice much more than the other person. I definitely have, & intimacy - even just emotional intimacy- suffers in that case.
Pieter Valk who has also been on this podcast gives great examples about how interpersonal intimacy can be achieved for gay Christians who aren't in a mixed orientation marriage. He's been on a ton of podcasts, and he is also on instagram. He believes that celibate people can be a part of long term families e.g. he started a monastery (but not Catholic) of sorts with other men committed to celibacy.
@@arasmussen4501 There has been many people who have never felt that relieve, thus I truly won't seek it.
I'm a queer-affirmative Pentecostal and gay human, and I have no problem with Side-B Christians who choose their lives from a place of joy. But I think "Pray Away" didn't go to Side B stuff because Side B tends to function as a more dilute version of ex-gay stuff. And the idea that Side A views cannot be orthodox is unhelpful, too. If marriage is good, the freedom to marry is fundamental *before* you have a conversation about the idolatry of marriage.
Preston, have you ever reached out to interview leaders at Restored Hope Network or the Alliance for Therapeutic Choice?
Just finished 'people to be loved'. I don't think I've ever finished a book in 2 days, compassionate and balanced approach. Tony great book as well, I saw alot of myself in your story. As one of the 30 or 40 that reached out to you on Zoom, thank you for being so accessible. My wife and I really appreciated it. We are doing well thanks in part to people like you. God bless.
Curious about the idea that therapy cannot have a preferred outcome. I have never sought therapy for no reason, and one of the key factors in deciding to get therapy for anything is a recognition that an issue is preventing you from living your life as you want to. So all therapy that I have ever participated in for anxiety, etc. had a VERY preferred outcome.
Here's a sad story.. if the documentary ended with Julie getting married, what does it say about the narrative now that she is divorced? Good thing they picked her.
And the reason John Paulk had dead eyes was because he admitted he lied the whole time. It's not surprising there is no life there when we know lying is sin.
Julie Rodgers is still married. Did I misunderstand what you said here?
And also you realize doing things for the appearance of righteousness sake is a fraud it's a counterfeit you're not being truthful with God you're not being truthful with yourself those two cannot coexist you can't lie to yourself and lie to God and fool yourself.
👍
You can be LGBT and Christian no problem
I wish more people would realize that.
By the way I like your show. 🌈🙏😇
There's one more thing , my comrades, the god of the bible (JESUS WHITE OR BLACK) don't exist! SO LIVE AND LOVE!!!
Do you actually know the differences between reparative (reintegrative) therapy, ex-gay ministries, and conversion therapy? It doesn't seem like you do with all of the straw mans used against reparative therapy in this video.
We also need to remember that we are the model for the Taliban and they're not doing too good with the subject. ❤️
1:05:56 "If a biological male has an internal sense of themselves as not male...then which one are they?" Preston, I'm trans, and this is not at all my narrative. And I think you know that's only one way that trans people have framed their stories. I lived my life thinking I was a man but wishing I could be a woman, and then through therapy I finally decided to transition. I surprised to hear you use this language because in other things I've heard you say, you are usually so much more nuanced.
I enjoyed the video otherwise. I didn't mean to make it all negative. I attended a Love Won Out seminar in the '90s. I became Facebook friends with John Paulk about a year ago, though I've never had any meaningful conversation with him. I will have to watch the Netflix show, but from what I've seen on Facebook, he looks a lot happier. Not that happiness determines truth, but I just mentioned it because you did.
Anyway, I appreciate what you're doing here. Though I'm an Exvangelical, Evangelicals are still my people. And this discussion is a really important one.
I believe in Christ and I always had a good and peaceful relation with towards my own feelings...
As humans, we are all born sinners, Christ may be wants us to change our own attitudes, but I don't believe he wants us to change our own feelings and trying to be the person we cannot ever be...
Some people are born Heterosexuals, others are born LGBTQ. there may be people who feel they had enough with Homosexuality and want to change their own feelings... fine, everyone is free to lead their life as much as they want. but, changing our feelings should never be an imposition on others.
There are still not many community churches who welcome everybody and especially LGBTQ people. I was lucky to grow up in a community church here in Italy who is mentally and spiritually opened and where an official Blessing for a same sex couple can be done with no problem.
I think the problem of the churches who refuse to accept LGBTQ people as they are, should stop reading the Bible literally...
Leviticus 18, 22 is a condamnation to sacred prostitution, it is not a condamnation to two men or two women who love each other. Same with Romans, what Paul sees in Rome and condemns it, it is the vice of sex, not love. The word "effeminate" in the Bible has not a meaning for homosexual but it means a man who is too soft with his wife and, also, I think it is referred to people who live their lifestyles in the vanity of their wealth and luxury.
Everyone has to be free to be and to love the person is attracted to... You can encounter Jesus as Your Saviour by being an Heterosexual or a LGBTQ's person and remain yourself as you were born to be. It does not matter to Jesus who you are and who you love, as long as you don't hurt other, He loves you as you are!!!! I encountered Him as an LGBTQ person and I am happy and at peace with him... Being a New Creature in Christ it doesn't mean you must change your feelings, it just mean you start living a life of Responsibility. This is what means to Live Freedom in Christ.
of course, no one has to be force to believe in Jesus... but, when he said: "Love your neighbour as yourself!" it was referred to all people!!!! Jesus Christ is not religion, He is True Universal Laicity.
Yes, yes, at 55 min in - relating the wrong definition of “conversion” therapy to transaction based, prosperity gospel ideas
Yes, it certainly is a wrong definition of "conversion therapy."
And Tony campolo
This Christianity in the '70s '80s and '90s gave birth to the ex-gay movement these are the fruits of the spirit which were deconstructing because we saw they were no good and they were not of God. That drove us back to the word of God and that's a good thing. 😇🌈🙏
You need to get David p Gushie, the ethics director he was with Harvard and Westland bunch of them anyway David p gushy he wrote change in my mind and get Colby Martin on clobber passages. And Sean McDowell who's really on the other side but he's coming along and Rob Bell that would be nice to have. 🙄 There you go from a LGBT grandma
Romans 1:26-32 KJV
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: [27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
And to you I say for God gave them up women exchange their natural sense.
Now listen carefully gay people are born from the get-go homosexual that's their natural sense gay people when we become heterosexual then we're exchanging our natural nature so therefore he's talking about Romans Paul is talking about when women exchange their natural nature when they're straight in a cross the lines to be gay just to have extra sex so now think about that. 🌈🙏😇 LGBT your grandma.
@@kimsteinke713 well that is basically trying to flip the actual meaning to coincide with your desire, instead of having the scripture mean what it says.
Multiple scientific researches have been done to see if they could identify a "gay gene" in DNA genetic information and everytime it has proven that there is no such gene.
They did research with identical twins who share the same DNA and have found no difference even though one chooses set lifestyle and the other does not.
They have proven this at largely liberal universities in California. So to say they are born that way is contrary to observational science as well as nature.
Men choose to suppress the truth they know to believe a lie that allows them to feel comfortable in their sins rather than asking for the truth from God and doing what He desires.
Babies are not born sexual, they are born with no sexual appetite. To say otherwise is to inject pseudo science to propagate a narrative that is not upheld any where else other than wishful thinking.
God does not judge people because they can't help to do something, He judges humanity because they have complete ability to do and to do contrary.
Make sure to obey Christ, hope to see you in heaven Kim.