Fat Shark Dominator Avatar FPV Goggles Chipset - WTF IS Going On ?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2022
- Fat Shark Dominator Avatar FPV Goggles Chipset Discussed.
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Hi Everyone, just to give a bit of an update.
We now know 100% this is NOT and Xilinx FPGA. The FPV.WTF team have been digging deep and we believe it’s the Artosyn AR9201 based on the code. They have also Gained root access to the Linux OS and lots of super interesting things are coming to light that we will discuss in the future.
This chipset regardless of the reason was mislabeled. The VTX appears to come with the chipset masked entirely but we also know that they did not have the Xilinx etching as the masked area is smaller than that was.
It’s all rather strange, murky and bizarre but we now know for sure what it is and is not.
Thanks
Mad.
Where can I find the walksnail goggle updates, just received my goggles today
Thank you for all you do in the hobby bro, people like you are needed more then ever these days.
Agreed, the hype bois are killin me. Just give the straight shit! Lol
Very nicely said but the truth is that there's money in the hype but not here, that's why you get 90% lies with every new launch and 10% truth which is decreasing
You too, Botgrinder!!
well said
@@andrewbt87 I kind of agree, but if you look at video views and patreon subscribers. JB is probably making a 6 figure income there alone. I'll admit his review was pretty straightforward by the end of it, but I could still feel the rotor riot affiliation. He's also earned the right to do whatever he wants and I'm still a patron lol
Let’s be honest, everything about this product from day one has raised questions and seemed a little sketchy, this is no different. After watching all of the reviews yesterday, I would still buy DJI over this. Hopefully one day they will fix the issues and it will be a great competitor to DJI but I don’t see that today.
Preach!
Damn, it's getting hard to see the mirrors for the smoke!
time for new goggles, I mean those where at least we do need a prescription from the eye doctor.
I have been waiting for this video and it was a total different one compared to what I had expected.
Now I know that Xilinx is a korean brand which sells deception units or rights I guess cause without the Xilinx brands permission no one could use it.
The next Mercedes but without the usual BOSCH injection and a chinese one designed by Lada in Russia with a huge cover of the brand "HELLA".
The most likely scenario in my mind is the fact that DJI outgrew a manufacturer and wanted to in-house the process to increase profit, but in the process they tried to strangle the original OEM and disallow them from selling the chips to anyone else. The original OEM needed to maintain revenue so they started working with Fatshark and Walksnail in an attempt to continue making sales, but they weren't expecting people to figure the whole thing out and hoped they could secretly sell these chips without violating a non-compete with DJI.
Which would still make this a compelling argument for buying Walksnail and similar products in the future, when most of the current issues have been ironed out. Like many people said right from the start, DJI does not care about the needs of "the FPV community" as much, as other companies do. They simply develop something for profit and like to handle things in-house and very top down. I think it's the right move for an OEM to move away from that, diversify and aim more for the target customer. I just wish they could have been more transparent about it.
Thank you! Took the words right out of my mouth.
I may agree with you on that...
Great video mate! The fact that the real Xylinx part uses a different package entirely makes this so weird for me. Best case scenario they screwed up the marking on engineering samples that they then had to use for production.
Well, in times of chip shortage, a mislabeled heat sink doesn't sound too bad.
Highly doubt it's a mislabeling. Virtex is just the platform behind it and it was cheaper to leave the original marking on it then putting a custom label on it.
We may only find out when someone delids one of these “production” chips. My wager is on theory that the label’s purpose is obfuscation, to delay competitors from cloning.
@@robert_g_fbg Agree, the firmware is unencrypted, there is no on-line activation, so it's only a matter of time before another Chinese company clones it.
If both chip sets are entirely different companies, is the product name itself branded as trade marked? If so then big whoops towards copy rights infringement.
I used to design pcbs for a tracking company that did designs for the US military. We did a lot of weird things for them so that our products couldn't be tracked back to the source.
its so strange how shady this release has been.
every step of the way, all the companies involved have been deceitful.
i cant think of anything comparable in shadyness.
Indeed it has been quite the drama. Having fun watching the plot unfold 🍿
Fully agree with you both,absolutely rubbish this product...thank God I don't need this system for my flying.
I’m still satisfied with my DJI v1 goggles. Until something comes out in damn near 2.7k I have no point to change goggles. Mr. Steele tried as best as he could to make promote these goggles and paint them in a positive light but even he couldn’t based on the flight test. He tried to be positive he tried to sell it but even he couldn’t trudge through that facade. It was just bad. It didnt even look as bad as DJI was on stock antennas before any updates at 25mb. Austin Powers - ..I’ll stay..”
love the drama this product made,
im just happy to see a new HD FPV system
cant wait for your review and details
still rooting for HDZero, while flying a DJI v2
Keep your DJI v2. They continue to be the best HD FPV system available.
@@The0nionKnight ya the DJI v2 / fpv is amazing , V2 of Avatar/HDZero should catch up ,,,
DJI might throw in a V3 which will make this situation an HD FPV DIY dream
Thanks a lot for all your hard work of doing that researches. It´s very interesting to see that. Keep it up :-)
Love your videos.... very informational! 💯✌
Why would they risk legal action to do that? Usually they just don't label them or sand off the labels.
Awesome video. We thank you, all of us. For some of the best content in FPV.
Can't wait for your unbiased review! This whole release has been so shady. It makes me appreciate my dji goggles all over again. Even though dji is evil lol
Seriously, Im so glad I didnt sell my DJI goggles. They might be shady but they are clearly the best HD FPV on the market.
@@The0nionKnight "clearly" lol
clearly pun intended
Caddx is just as evil. Huge surveillances camera company.
Go figure what they do with Uighurs and Xi’s political opponents.
What’s y’all options 11 months later? I just got the goggles. I’m moving to walksnail from dji, other then I’m keeping my O3
So it’s either incompetence or dishonesty.
Aligns with every negative perceived angle of the initial release
This whole system and company is raising more red flags than a soviet parade, what the hell is going on there?
It's got more twists and turns than a good old Agatha Christie book!!
I'm doubling down on DJI after all this bullshit and the marginal DVR footage being displayed on several channels. Was holding off on ordering more DJI air units but pulled the trigger on 3 yesterday. $700 for goggles with no stock antennas and half baked software makes DJI look like a bargain. I'm giving this a couple of years to mature before seriously considering it.
If they make it that far?
Imo seems intentional, they always knew the first thing people were going to do is open them up to see whats going on inside goggles. Plus they been acting fishy saying no one needs to know how it works in defense to the questions made about the product.
Thanks for your input. It's interesting but I'm waiting for the new hdzero googles.
Fascinating. Great informative overview of the Avatar/Dominator FPV core processor architecture implications.
While is would be costly (deconstruction), desoldering the SoC to examine the ball contact footprint, how connections are routed on pcb, and decapping the SoC to reveal the hidden chip(s) could be a real treasure chest.
Beyond FPV, Meta, Apple, Google and others are developing AR (augmented reality) goggles. There are likely a number of chipsets that are in the preproduction sample phase of development. A community already making use of AR technologies like the FPV community would be great audience to validate new technology architectures. (ie: there some big investors beyond the FPV community that are interested in AR technologies)
All the reviews especially JB's said they dont really come close to the DJI goggles, wait for DJI V3's people
Thanks for the Video.
At 9:08 I hit the like button.
I then subscribed when I heard the most honest opinion ever.
Great video thank u.
Maybe we’ll learn the truth in future batches but for now: another mystery in the walksnail sage…
Keep up the good work!
Ian, where can I read that full article you wrote please?
Couldn’t focus on what you‘ve said - was busy being jealous of your shirt !!!
"You don't get to know" -RR president
The more we find out. The more shady everything gets...
Here's hoping someone does a delid video comparing the socs. The silicon will reveal all...
Another great video! Sooo much smoke & mirrors here!
Could it have been done to skirt import duties?
Most people I talked to said they don't care about chipset as long as it woks ,very good video
Looks like "someone" is trying to obscure (or is being forced to obscure) that it's an ARTOSYN AR8211 Chip... Not investing in any shady parts and dealings with WalkSnail or FatShark.... Would have made more sense labeling the chip W3 or FS6... I'm waiting for HDZero to put my $$ on.
Wow! I really hope there will be open source firmware for both Walksnail and DJI fpv systems based on these findings!
For the average flyer it doesn't rally matter what's inside it, all we need to know is, is it a good product or not and looking at the flight footage from reviews so far, it appears it is not, sorry fatshark but unless the picture improves with software updates it will end up in the same place as bytefrost and sharkbyte
Really? You don't think the ethics of a vendor matters? I disagree strongly.
classic engineering easter egg
It may be that the FPGA is "authorized for import" into certain countries that the Artosyn chips haven't been cleared for use. Basically a way to get around sanctions or import taxes or possibly even FCC or equivalent government organizations globally. Decisions were made that would be very interesting to hear explanations on from Artosyn, Walksnail, and Fat Shark.
It’s not an FPGA. We now KNOW 100%
They did a proper power button this time guys... and no praise for that!
Tough crowd! :D
Nah, I agree... it's defo not ready yet. Give it some time though.
I know what this is, Ian. It's a freaking dumpster fire! 🙄
What the hell... It seems like something a child would do! Not adults!
Anyway... Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
This is speculation as Ian says all speculation. Just like there was speculation that they were DJI and it was DJI tech behind it. Now we see that it is not DJI and there is no DJI tech behind it. It is complete speculation that the chip is mislabeled. I suspect it's going to turn out just like the DJI speculation did. I suspect that it's going to turn out that that is a Xylinx chip and people were just speculating it was not.
@@AndyDreadFPV It's still a dumpster fire. That's ridiculous...
And, either way, the point is that the chip CAN'T BE what it's written in. Simple as that.
I don't think these are mislabeled at all - Looking at the spec the Virtex-5 and the AR9341 - they have the same pinout. So I assume that they use the Virtex platform in their own packaging and Artosyn's legal name is COOL CORE Microelectronics. So they might be in a re-branding phase and left the original label on it - maybe also due to time constraint - manufacturing lead time issue - who knows. CoolCore/Artosyn has DJI and Hubsan as clients btw. - with all these fabless vendors it's hard to tell who is actual making the chips but it's pretty likely that Virtex / AMD is the original supplier.
The key here is that the platforms used are very similar to each other and probably share a lot of similarities in design and functionality. DJI has been supportive of their products and are known to work reliable. The whole Fatshark secret is out of the door at this point - it's all Walksnail/Caddx tech - but in the end it really comes down if their product can be reliable as the competition especially with the bigger price tag. Is it just a quick money grab or is it truly a continuous development? I would say in a year from now we really can understand if the Avatar system is on par with the 6 year old DJI system and if they truly stand behind their products.
There is no other SOC on the board. That would mean it would have to be running the Linux Os and we know it can’t do that. It’s no issues as sticky logic but it’s not capable for full soft cores as far as we can tell.
@@MadRC Another reason for the "mislabeling" could be also just that they didn't had other heatsinks and just took what they can get :-D anyway again - the product itself has to speak for it. Who cares what chip is in it as long the actual product lives up to its promises. What excites me most is that all of this knowledge finding maybe get us closer to an actual viable Open Source solution. Finding the right hardware is half the game :-)
@@FLYANDI Original Xilinx heatsink/package is of different dimensions => it cannot be what you just wrote
Xilinx does make combined arm/FPGA chips, so this may be something like that. That could for sure run Linux. That's my bet.
@@MadRC All one needs is a simple ARM soft core and that can be implemented in the Virtex-5 it's self. All the heavy lifting is done in the hardware. So it could be a relatively simple slow ARM soft core running the Linux. PS, Virtex 5 is fast enough. It's all in how you code the chip.
I'm really surprised that this many people are surprised that we're all getting taken for we've been getting taken for for a long time people.
Hmmm! Interesting 🤔
Shady as everything around the system. The first reviews show, that this system is not in any way capable of what was promised.
There are a couple differences between the chip that’s in the goggles and the other one you compared it to, one is that on is manufactured in Korea and one in Taiwan, and the Korea one says 2C and the Taiwan one says 1l, don’t know if that means anything
No that’s speed rating ect. We now know 100% it’s Artosyn chipset.
Mine will be in tomorrow, the main reason I bought them is HDMI out , I will use this on my homemade fpv cockpit with has the dji system hooked to it with the axis flying box , check it out!
Now you will have an very blurry image cominho out of your HDMI port LOL, look Steele’s review!
@@cmtetaboaco I think they'll get it right with firmware updates and 50mbs , different cameras, ect , I have the Hd zero too with 5 cameras and all look like shit , dji is awesome though , guess I'll have to get the new Hd zero goggles too , like i said before my wife has 40 pairs of shoes some never been worn why can't I have 10 pair of goggles even if they're no good LoL
@@jimmytheriot8978 if you got the funds, go for it!
I’m really happy with DJI and I’ll keep it!
You can have the digiview via USB C to any Android tablet! If you get a tablet with HDMI out,…
Where can I find the walksnail goggle updates just received my fatshark HD goggles
Could this just be a DJI back door company? It would be a smart move on their part just in case DJI gets forced out of the market from the governments.
or even... a bit of fun!
How on earth did you order yours well after I did and get them well before??? Maybe they recognized your name and bumped you up on the list - well done in any case.
No U.K. dealers had loads of stock. I ordered Tuesday and shipped Wednesday, delivered Thursday.
I canceled my RR order as U.K. had them in the end.
Realistically, how likely is it that a company like Artosyn (which isn't pronounced 'artisan' by the way! 😜) just happens to have a different manufacturer's chip markings on a file and accidentally etches their own chips with it and doesn't notice? 🤔
There fact there's references to Artosyn in the code and the packaging looks identical means you don't need to think of their possible excuses for them, just tell it like it obviously is.
Walksnail underestimate people like you and Joonas in the community...
I'm only interested to know what this system is based on so that it might be hopefully that the performer can be developed and increased Fromm where it's at now, which is below that of the current DJI system.
Perfect!
At the end of the day, it comes down to what users want. To me it looks like a good product. If you want to know which chip it actually is, you can remove the heatspreader on which the label is written. I suspect that the original manufacturer is hiding underneath and would perhaps clarify things. I suspect that the original manufacturer is hiding underneath. And removing the heat spreader might clear things up.
GIVE ME KNOWLEDGE !!!!! ty mate !
Well done the postman! Are you regretting the purchase yet?
I wonder if they mark their TEAL Blue sUAS chips to say something else...
Easier to mark it differently than actually produce the end product in the US or allied countries. I wonder what that document trail looks like...
No offense intended, but honestly, what difference does the chipset make as long as we are getting what we want? I’m asking because I don’t understand what difference it makes where the chips come from.
Realty is none now, the only things like this raise questions on the reason and if there is any darker intent but again we will never know.
@kestrel fpv are you that simple minded? A single cell amoeba ??? Anyways if you don’t care them don’t watch!!! That simple which you understand I hope
@Eroc no, I’m not simple minded, I’m asking “what difference does it make” because I don’t know. I didn’t call anybody names, I was asking a question, that’s all.
Thats because you are not curious about how it works and how it all ties in with the DJI system. Just a end user
This is bad even for an end user, Fatshark doesn't want anyone to know their system. It's pretty much closed source even worse than DJI, while Fatshark said it will bring an open source project for the community but its cleary not. Hdzero made a much better job.
Dji v3 gonna poop all over these new googles
I think I'll stick with HDZero for now.
This seems potentially illegal unless they have the ok from the maker of the chip it's labelled with. Also, doesn't this kind of thing go through the fcc etc?
I am pretty convinced that Virtex is the actual platform behind it. That's just the original label of the chip.
@@FLYANDI That's what I'm leaning towards too
What is really interesting to say right now is : Can they fix the garbage compression problem on hight textured environnement with firmware update ? or not ? if good if not, it's a refund for me and also for other maybe.
Personally, I wouldn't put out $600 of my own money on the hope that they will make it better. I believe that they can make it better, but I would wait until they succeed and then buy. People shouldn't be buying products that don't deliver a basic level of functionality, on the hope that it will eventually be fixed by the manufacturer. It's okay to release a product that is not 100% finished, as long as it has some utility. But the performance of the system that I have seen so far is just not ready.
I wouldn't depend on a company to make haste with fixing anything after they took your money. Even if they could, will they? Even if this is not the huge success they hope it will be?
I mean... I don't pay my plumber before the work is finished and working. So why should this be any different. And he isn't even taking me for a fool, like I feel Fatsnail is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not the assembly manufacturer that etch the markings, it's the chip maker itself.
If xilinx is the manufacturer, then they would have never shipped this with incorrect markings, as it's never going to be accepted by the manufacturer.
If it's not xilinx, why the fuck would they put Xilinx name on it, can't be an error.
I love my dji v1. I will be buying hdzero just for my racing drones and if fatshark can fix the vidio and make it look as good as dji then I will buy them just because of the smaller goggle size for my portable freestyle drones. I could care less what chip set they use but at the price point at what they are selling them at they need to be better than dji to justify such a high price
Thanks for ALL your efforts to clarify this 🙂👍
Well well. I remember the hoard of people saying this was DJI. That is obviously not a DJI chip...obviously.
I want dji v3 !!!!!
Geeezus who cares! Does it work yes or no? That’s all that matters.
So if I put a better dvr in a set of hdos, and rebrand them, Shitshark shouldn't mind...
Time line of events in my mind. If they’re wrong, oh well. If you don’t agree, oh well.
FatShark was king.
DJI V1 comes out.
FatShark wants a bite of that digital goodness, partners with HDZero. Starts developing these goggles.
DJI V2 releases and FatShark hates that HDZero isn’t where DJI is
FatShark calls off partnership with HDZero and has a useless shell for some goggles.
FatShark finds whatever Chinese, DJI knockoff they could find to slap in their shell to rush to market before DJI V3, Orqa HD, and HDZero Goggles.
I’ve only been into FPV for a couple years so I don’t really get the allure behind FatShark. So far all I’ve seen are shitty business decisions, and shady practices.
I feel fine with their choice to label it differently idk what makes the FPV code nerd want to know everything
I'm calling these "FatSnails" *copright
Premature launch of incomplete product. Dji have more tech experience an advantage in the field of digital goggles. I see that fatshark is like the Sony LCD's against the Korean LCD's brands. Dji go to V3 and the avatar is V1? V0.89 maybe lol.
Please test how these affect analog pilots 💪🏻
I will be for sure soon.
This whole thing has been funky from the start. It does not make me interested in dropping $800+ into this system (running high end analog now). For me, I think it being the DJI chipset is not something they should be running from if that what it is. We at least know that chip is capable and reliable... however they got their hands on it.
I personally want HDzero to blossom as the guy behind it is super engaged and working his ass off to develop and make it work well. It's just not there yet. I'm ready to go digital but right now I'm still waiting.
sell for fools - that is how it feels to get a product with a deception which might be illegal too for several reasons considering EU legislations and the usual copyright right of such chips.
I guess now I am a bit late, but I had observed the hype of the last 48 hours and view counts that were disappointing compared to any dji fpv release of past years, even the first goggles I guess.
But interesting to see you in front of the goggles but doing a complete different thing than usual.
Now I have to learn about a brand called XILINX and all the stuff on component level where I hardly can differentiate a restistor from a diode or so since the coloured rings have vanished.
I wonder how a midlabelled can make its way into the EU and the CE certification. If they had gotten the dji chipset and covered it in a disguise then it is a dji solution rebranded or upgraded a bit from fpv 2.0 to fpv 2.2 while dji will release fpv 3 goggles soon.
BUT, and there is the big but: they need to own the rights or permission from Xilinx company to use that cover or deception.
Might be worth to send a mail to korea and ask about a new edition of such chip.
Best video about the system so far - even without any footage and to be honest I hope you will get the money for your system back cause it does not feel good or promising, from the very beginning.
Usually it is about FPV products, how they work, why they are an improvement and now we need reverse engineering to get behind badge engineering that sells for fools.
Can not believe the whole dji spider network beginnging with that nebula and camera and air unit products that appeared out of nowhere and now the next fog bomb as we would call it.
Looks like DJI is a fox at miss labeling it chip set.
This appears to be a reprogrammed chip marked as Virtex-5. so the chip is possibly much older than the indicated 7 year old chip.. It is not uncommon for assemblers to swap out original spec parts for cheaper alternatives. You can see this in rip-off gaming cards, but also happens in bicycles and whiteware. I am aware of US helicopter crashes caused by repurposed CISCO chips reprogrammed and labelled as original This may account for the poor performance JB showed. HDZero is looking better every day
Being a prototyping engineer myself, an FPGA is used mostly for emulation and testing later they manufacture ASCIs, not sure why Virtex couldbt be used for this, Virtex bring an old FPGA might be loaded with the RTL of AR8211
@@_mr_andersson perfect, this very much makes sense, cant image someone is using fake xilinx name has a production release, cant imagine we are getting so much scammed, manufacturing a board with a fake chip name is indeed high level deception ...
This seems like reusing IHS due to pandemic part shortage
Can you ask Fatshark that for my goggles I want the chipset that does not come with the haze in the video that I have seen on early reviews. They can fill the goggles with peanuts for all I care - as long as I get a clear picture like or better than DJI - then Fatshark will get my $$$.
Fatshark/Walksnail/Somebody thinks we are all idiots. Honestly the subterfuge and dishonesty around this product leaves a massively fishy smell.
The reason the package looks different is because the company changed hands.
Smoke and mirrors to the max
So my feelings is this is the same/similar tech that DJI uses/liscences. Fatshark messed up. They should have released a goggle that takes modules HD or analog. They are locked in to this now and forever. It's going to be problematic.
My feeling is that HDzero will have a retransmit feture and bring close to DJI tech quality to their goggles and system.
Dodge pot goggle system... All secrets no action..
Sound like a lot of secret squirrel shit.
The IHS looks different.
The Artosyn has a chamfered corner i believe opposite to the locating dot, whereas this IHS is different. Do you think they would have gone to the effort to delid so many chips and replace the IHSs entirely?
Also the IHS looking similar is such a wild way to say two chips are identical. Tell me you’ve never worked with ICs before without telling me you’ve never worked with ICs before…
@@skylar7320 Well, he has, so I can't discount his opinion based on experience. I'm just wondering whether Walksnail found a buncha old FPGAs on the cheap and put them to work lol
On further thought, meh, scratch that
I find it funny that the constant compliant is dji doesn't care, yet its been the best system for 2 years and still cant be outdone. With that said what do you call companies pushing this garbage on us then?
Fatshark sold its soul to dji
Power button
Regardless of how it works, if it works, if it's good, if it's bad.... things like this just make the whole thing seem dodgy AF
These goggles sit on a throne of lies.
agree with everyone else. until there are substantial improvements making this better than DJI there is zero reason to buy this.
WOW! Smells fishy!
This is shady AF. If they mislabeled this chip, they are infringing on Xilinx trademark. I’ve seen companies sand the markings of the chips to prevent competitors to copy their design but this is clearly made to conceal the manufacturer of the chip.
I'll stick to dji
Thank you for offering a sensible, non-conspiratorial position on this issue....social media has been getting a bit over-excited about some of these issues IMO.
Everything about these goggles has been misleading. The launch of these goggles has been a series of faux pas that made people distrust them. As the saying goes, don't assume malice when incompetence will do. Still though, the whole thing has felt sketchy.
don't know how fatshark has ever been trustworthy. alwasy been a sketchy company, not out for anyone but themselves.
But why can't it be a Xilinx chipset? I have seen very basic Xilinx chipsets in lidars. They are pretty powerfull, even the basic ones. Who tells you that the artysin chipset haven't been always a rebranded Xilinx one???
Maybe you have the evidence in front of you so clearly that you refuses to believe it...
We did think this but there the people looking at this don’t beleive for one moment it can be that FPGA. It could be used as sticky logic but no as the full arm core, dsp and baseband. There is no other SOC in there.
@@MadRC Pause for a second and think. What does have more sense? Xilinx rebranding their products for a customer or another company rebranding their chipset as a false chipset of another company? Wouldn't that put the OEM in a problematic situation? You are saying that somebody out there is selling false chipsets.... think on it.
them disguising the chip is 100% irrelevant to anything. its not uncommon, sure its done in a weird way. The community has just gone insane because of the "is it or is it not DJI" debacle, it is irrelevant.
hopefully the system lives up to promises.
is it legal for an american company to intentionally mislabel the things they sell?