The thing about Otis dying to defend Sphene - he doesn't know that she's possessing a holoman. He knows she's an endless, but he says he's not sure how she's able to exist outside of everkeep. And while he is in the cutscene where Zoraal Ja reveals it to us, he shows up after Sphene has jacked a second drone. So as far as he knows, Sphene is entirely in danger. The first boss in origenics shares a skeleton with the first lightwarden from shadowbringers's first dungeon.
Yeah, it makes sense from his internal logic, but it does lead to things feeling a little odd. We're fighting to save HIM, not HER, but that's only something that occurs to you outside of that moment.
@@EinDose It is a bit funky that you have to take a step back and acknowledge that the player's knowledge is not identical to Otis's in the scene. I'd also point out that the beast we were fighting had paralysed us and was likely to kill everyone without Otis's interference, but we all know that if it came to it the WoL would find a way to survive that on their own. No, it's just a weird unfortunate thing that the player finding out directly about Sphene so immediately before that solo duty and Otis being IN that scene making it all feel a little in the moment like "Okay guy I hear you, you wanna defend your queen but also, you know, like, shouldn't you know she's functionally immortal here?"
My Gulool Ja pet theory is that he is somehow literally just another, younger version of Zoraal Ja considering that I think there may be some kind of time travel element at play here that we haven't really touched on yet. I feel like with the parts we have it fits better than him being a clone and considering that Zoraal Ja's birth is already telegraphed as being miraculous I feel like it would be strange for lighting to strike twice story-wise. This take is largely imagery and vibes-based so take it however.
Origenics had the religious history major in me going "what really? eeeeee!" Origen of Alexandria (yep, that was his name) wrote treatises about how God created numerous spiritual intelligences that transfer from body to body as their lives end, and also theorized the possibilities of alternate universes. He also described Christianity as an empire constantly warring for more souls, so take *that* tiny bit as you will :) The writers were, indeed, cooking.
I love that we all instantly recognized the Type-0 horror of the regulators. Disappointed they didn't go into more memory deletion for political control possibilities for their usage. Heritage Found deals with colonization just as much as any part of SB. The loss/overwriting of culture for most and the economic factors driving assimilation - but also the blending of the two in both practice and family, environmental devastation from invasive species, the resource drain and wars and conquests. Sphene's request that Wuk Lamat become her colonial subject and the instant rejection was icing on the cake. Saving those topics until the back half of exploring Tural and still having it as the undercurrent beneath the grief of mourning loved ones and the SF glitter was appreciative. Sphene's design I hate but for the right reasons: you see the direct callbacks to Garnet's outfits but in the appropriate gemstone color, but the rest is so gaudy and over-complicated with too many glowing and/or holographic elements, so obviously fake- worst of all being that hair. She's an eyesore. And then her character itself - yep antagonist flip on a Garnet with some Brahe. But most of all, she reminds me of defenses of Emet - oh she (only) values and loves her (dead) people so she'll commit planetary genocide but she feels bad about murdering her friend (WL or WoL) and she's (tempered) programmed so it's not her fault. From the regulator scene the plot beats were very predictable except for Gulool Ja- and once he appeared the FFIX combination of Puck and Vivi was too. I wonder if Otis was also supposed to have Sir Fratley parallels with memory but his Steiner-ness drowns that out.
@@CH-dr1ds I'd actually put that Sphene has some Garland rather than Brahne; she's a combination of FFIX's secondary protagonist and antagonist, with Zoraal Ja being the primaries. And honestly I kinda like that the regulators stop where they do. They're abhorrent in a way that's immediately wrong and creepy, but read as a misguided kindness and never once step over the line into malice.
@@EinDose the Ascians were already Garland with the Rejoinings hitting that IX plot. Zoraal Ja is a Kuja complete with feather headdress and issues of self (because Kuja himself is a dark foil to Zidane so antagonist!Zidane ends up there so a dark!Garnet with grief issues is shades of Brahe).
We still have post patch story to cover. And the regulators remain in use after 7.0. I suspect some of the other horrors of the regulators are going to come up in the post patch MSQ, the next two Arcadion wings, or both. S9, one way or another, has to integrate into the societies of the Source that they have arrived on after all.
So glad I wasn't the only one thinking of Everywhere At the End of Time, especially given the memory motif all over Alexandria. Zone 6 theme REALLY smacked me with the End of Time feeling
Man, what can I say here that wasn't already said? This part of the MSQ was an absolute banger and loaded with existential dread, but also cool shiny stuff. My WoL went into Solution 9 looking like she aaaaalmost fit in, and walked out almost looking native to the place. I never played FFIX, so I did not catch the references going through, but I can say the story still lands even not seeing those, and that speaks the strength of this part of the story (and some of the weakness of the EW post-patch, but that's a different can of worms.) The Doctor Who comparisons are spot on with the time shenanigans, and while the Scions talking about how other shards have different time stuff going on feels like a jump, that is literally the main source of weird time stuff they actually have experience with, so them jumping there first makes sense in that regard, even if it's only supported by a weird portal we found but never even opened. They just happened to be right in this case. Also yes, my paranoia brain that got activated by Skydeep Cenote was considering the potential of Alexander having a part to play... even if that part is say, Alexander being a primal created from the misinterpreted stories of a previous encounter with the Alexandrians. Still, we have 5 post-patch story beats left, and at least 3 of them might cover that. I think the strong bit of Origenics isn't just that it resembles the Aetherial sea, but that it basically is an accidental recreation of the same processes, using machines, but instead of going from above into it's depths, we have to climb up through it in the other direction to reach it's heights. All under the guise of it being basically a cyberpunk heist of sorts, that starts with one of the best opening cutscenes of a dungeon ever. The sight of a very serious WoL riding a speedboat through stormy waters that is being piloted by a seriously looking emoji meme bot is striking energy that conveys both the serious tone and comedic highlights that FF games often do.
I wish we got more of Erenville with his mom. It reminded me of my mom, and knowing what Cahciua's fate was hurt me even more. I'm just glad he got to say goodbye considering my own circumstances
Some notes and questions: - Thanks for reminding me about Everywhere At The End Of Time. I temporarily hate you, but accept the apology. :P - Something you skipped over: During the tour of S9 with Sphene, you visit a kid showing signs AWFULLY Reminiscent of our little porcelain-white Drahn boy on the first, Halric. My Immediate thought here was "Hooo BOY is this kid coming back in the patch content! Nothing like giving Alisaie a THIRD Aetherially corrupted child to fix, eh?" - Oh Twelve above, I just realised why her name is Sphene like seconds before you said it. How did I NOT realise the Gemstone comparisone until now? - Now I realise that the thematic reason is "Because it's cute that Gulool Ja got a Robot Dad that looked like him", but why in the absolute heck is Otis' Gundam Frame so similar in form and gait to a Mamool Ja? - Did Origenics the first time as a White mage in Trust. I gave up after literally 10 attempts to take down Herpekaris. Tried again on Gunbreaker. Did it first try. Twelve above I hate that Philia Clone. - "Hey Zoraal Ja, You done, gorging yourself on all those souls? * /bstance * Here's an After Dinner mint for you! As you can see, the blade is only wafer-thin! "
I think Otis is a mashup. The personality of Steiner, eyes of Vivi and body shape of Amarant. As far as the in-universe reason, no idea. Though we may get more on that. Otis was not linked to Alexandria's systems thus no backup. There was no reason why Zoraal Ja would have had the ability to control him without some further backstory there.
@@NemesisTWarlock The kid was something I cut for time reasons, but I suspect the problem won't be solved by a porxie. It sounds like an environmental problem, so the issue's way bigger than one Angelo can solve. And yeah, Herpekaris is a BITCH in trusts as a healer. The Origenics run you see here was the second attempt.
So a few fun tidbits, a few of the folks in and around solution 9 are wearing Ronkan/sky deep gear, but a few are also wearing the "Alexandrian" gear out of the Alexander raids. Also as far as I'm concerned solution 9 is Zanarkend, right down to our pilgrim and her guardians showing up to the ruins and being greeted by an undying queen of dubious morality.
@@EinDose funnily enough the glam I had that used Alexandrian pieces, I replaced with Ronkan in preparation for Dawn trail. I couldn't have been more on the money.
When you started talking about Doctor Who the first I smiled so wide. Tbh I didn’t even make the first connection you did but the second one was exactly the first thing I thought of immediately Edit - when I had the Sphene doesn’t have a fave food scene I was like ok so she’s either a robot or a ghost. In fiction if you don’t eat you’re either a robot or a ghost
For character parallels, you’re kinda half right with saying Zoraal Ja is an evil Zidane, he’s more close to Kuja, and since he’s the dark parallel and brother to Zidane, that would naturally make Wuk Lamat the Zidane stand in
Also I’m think that Galool Ja is supposed to be the Vivi stand in? Since he was “created” by the Kuja stand in and how the Steiner stand in acts very fatherly towards him. Very curious what direction they take his character in the post patches, I’m wondering if he’ll become a Mage to further confirm the reference and as a contrast to Zoraal Ja being a physical fighter
@@Kirby-Mania My current read is that Zoraal is a Zidane/Kuja mashup, and Sphene is Garnet/Garland. Combine the leads with their respective-importance antagonists. Wuk as Zidane kinda works, but only in broad strokes that fit a lot of this sort of protagonist.
Re: Everywhere at the End of Time - I wasn't sure if they were explicitly referencing it until a certain point in the very last zone ;__; It hit so hard for me. My first time listening to that album had me screwed up for months u__u
I noticed that Otis had the voice and personality of Steiner, the eyes of Vivi (complete with black mage mind control) and the body shape of Amarant. I'm not sure it was entirely intentional, though it is likely that it was. They're playing off this nightmarish soul consumption as a "cultural choice" which I find as offensive as I find the practice itself. We didn't come through the experience of learning very personally what the soul and its lifecycle really mean, including literally standing in the lifestream and encountering lost friends just to let this horror continue. If we don't do something to put a solid stop to it in the patch content, it may break something in me regarding my enjoyment of the game and the world building. I understand the issue of being trapped in a pocket dimension with no access to a lifestream necessitated an artificial alternative, but they're on the source now and there are no excuses. If these people die so frequently that they just can't handle life without other people's living souls, they are just plain idiots. Maybe start with some railings around your aetheryte pit.
@@25xxfrostxx I think the Arcadion is picking up the soul supply/regulator plotline rather than the patch MSQs. Which is fine by me, the Arcadion is great.
@@EinDose I do really like the Arcadion story so far. Both the feel and the characters. Part of me secretly hopes the "President" ends up being the reflection of Godbert.
Regarding 14:44 and the cutscene with Zoraal Ja and Sphene, I think you just missed it. It is indeed in the Unending Journey: the quest Embracing Oblivion, cutscene #2.
gods I hated that first dungeon boss. Could not get through it with trust and had to finally beat it with a full player party. Even then, took us 4 tries.
I've been really enjoying watching these because I appreciate your enthusiasm and analysis, but I wish you'd given a warning before dropping what I can only assume are major FF9 spoilers 😞
I do respect that, and if this were a less off-the-cuff series I'd be noting those, but this is sort of a conversation you can't have without spoilers. And I actually didn't spoil that much, FFIX has A LOT going on.
I wanted to give Erenville a hug so badly, he’s been through absolute hell in the back half of the expansion.
The thing about Otis dying to defend Sphene - he doesn't know that she's possessing a holoman. He knows she's an endless, but he says he's not sure how she's able to exist outside of everkeep. And while he is in the cutscene where Zoraal Ja reveals it to us, he shows up after Sphene has jacked a second drone. So as far as he knows, Sphene is entirely in danger.
The first boss in origenics shares a skeleton with the first lightwarden from shadowbringers's first dungeon.
Also as much as Otis is Steiner, I also get hildebrand vibes from him
Yeah, it makes sense from his internal logic, but it does lead to things feeling a little odd. We're fighting to save HIM, not HER, but that's only something that occurs to you outside of that moment.
@@EinDose It is a bit funky that you have to take a step back and acknowledge that the player's knowledge is not identical to Otis's in the scene. I'd also point out that the beast we were fighting had paralysed us and was likely to kill everyone without Otis's interference, but we all know that if it came to it the WoL would find a way to survive that on their own. No, it's just a weird unfortunate thing that the player finding out directly about Sphene so immediately before that solo duty and Otis being IN that scene making it all feel a little in the moment like "Okay guy I hear you, you wanna defend your queen but also, you know, like, shouldn't you know she's functionally immortal here?"
My Gulool Ja pet theory is that he is somehow literally just another, younger version of Zoraal Ja considering that I think there may be some kind of time travel element at play here that we haven't really touched on yet. I feel like with the parts we have it fits better than him being a clone and considering that Zoraal Ja's birth is already telegraphed as being miraculous I feel like it would be strange for lighting to strike twice story-wise. This take is largely imagery and vibes-based so take it however.
I do wish Tiamat and Hresvelgr showed up as well, so then we have all the remaining First Brood
@@madambutterfly1997 Eh, it was a Thavnair alliance, it makes sense Vrtra turned up.
Origenics had the religious history major in me going "what really? eeeeee!" Origen of Alexandria (yep, that was his name) wrote treatises about how God created numerous spiritual intelligences that transfer from body to body as their lives end, and also theorized the possibilities of alternate universes. He also described Christianity as an empire constantly warring for more souls, so take *that* tiny bit as you will :) The writers were, indeed, cooking.
@@sennaka Oh damn, that's REALLY cool!
I love that we all instantly recognized the Type-0 horror of the regulators. Disappointed they didn't go into more memory deletion for political control possibilities for their usage.
Heritage Found deals with colonization just as much as any part of SB. The loss/overwriting of culture for most and the economic factors driving assimilation - but also the blending of the two in both practice and family, environmental devastation from invasive species, the resource drain and wars and conquests. Sphene's request that Wuk Lamat become her colonial subject and the instant rejection was icing on the cake. Saving those topics until the back half of exploring Tural and still having it as the undercurrent beneath the grief of mourning loved ones and the SF glitter was appreciative.
Sphene's design I hate but for the right reasons: you see the direct callbacks to Garnet's outfits but in the appropriate gemstone color, but the rest is so gaudy and over-complicated with too many glowing and/or holographic elements, so obviously fake- worst of all being that hair. She's an eyesore. And then her character itself - yep antagonist flip on a Garnet with some Brahe. But most of all, she reminds me of defenses of Emet - oh she (only) values and loves her (dead) people so she'll commit planetary genocide but she feels bad about murdering her friend (WL or WoL) and she's (tempered) programmed so it's not her fault.
From the regulator scene the plot beats were very predictable except for Gulool Ja- and once he appeared the FFIX combination of Puck and Vivi was too. I wonder if Otis was also supposed to have Sir Fratley parallels with memory but his Steiner-ness drowns that out.
@@CH-dr1ds I'd actually put that Sphene has some Garland rather than Brahne; she's a combination of FFIX's secondary protagonist and antagonist, with Zoraal Ja being the primaries.
And honestly I kinda like that the regulators stop where they do. They're abhorrent in a way that's immediately wrong and creepy, but read as a misguided kindness and never once step over the line into malice.
@@EinDose the Ascians were already Garland with the Rejoinings hitting that IX plot. Zoraal Ja is a Kuja complete with feather headdress and issues of self (because Kuja himself is a dark foil to Zidane so antagonist!Zidane ends up there so a dark!Garnet with grief issues is shades of Brahe).
We still have post patch story to cover. And the regulators remain in use after 7.0. I suspect some of the other horrors of the regulators are going to come up in the post patch MSQ, the next two Arcadion wings, or both. S9, one way or another, has to integrate into the societies of the Source that they have arrived on after all.
So glad I wasn't the only one thinking of Everywhere At the End of Time, especially given the memory motif all over Alexandria. Zone 6 theme REALLY smacked me with the End of Time feeling
Man, what can I say here that wasn't already said?
This part of the MSQ was an absolute banger and loaded with existential dread, but also cool shiny stuff.
My WoL went into Solution 9 looking like she aaaaalmost fit in, and walked out almost looking native to the place.
I never played FFIX, so I did not catch the references going through, but I can say the story still lands even not seeing those, and that speaks the strength of this part of the story (and some of the weakness of the EW post-patch, but that's a different can of worms.)
The Doctor Who comparisons are spot on with the time shenanigans, and while the Scions talking about how other shards have different time stuff going on feels like a jump, that is literally the main source of weird time stuff they actually have experience with, so them jumping there first makes sense in that regard, even if it's only supported by a weird portal we found but never even opened. They just happened to be right in this case.
Also yes, my paranoia brain that got activated by Skydeep Cenote was considering the potential of Alexander having a part to play... even if that part is say, Alexander being a primal created from the misinterpreted stories of a previous encounter with the Alexandrians. Still, we have 5 post-patch story beats left, and at least 3 of them might cover that.
I think the strong bit of Origenics isn't just that it resembles the Aetherial sea, but that it basically is an accidental recreation of the same processes, using machines, but instead of going from above into it's depths, we have to climb up through it in the other direction to reach it's heights. All under the guise of it being basically a cyberpunk heist of sorts, that starts with one of the best opening cutscenes of a dungeon ever. The sight of a very serious WoL riding a speedboat through stormy waters that is being piloted by a seriously looking emoji meme bot is striking energy that conveys both the serious tone and comedic highlights that FF games often do.
I wish we got more of Erenville with his mom. It reminded me of my mom, and knowing what Cahciua's fate was hurt me even more. I'm just glad he got to say goodbye considering my own circumstances
Some notes and questions:
- Thanks for reminding me about Everywhere At The End Of Time. I temporarily hate you, but accept the apology. :P
- Something you skipped over: During the tour of S9 with Sphene, you visit a kid showing signs AWFULLY Reminiscent of our little porcelain-white Drahn boy on the first, Halric. My Immediate thought here was "Hooo BOY is this kid coming back in the patch content! Nothing like giving Alisaie a THIRD Aetherially corrupted child to fix, eh?"
- Oh Twelve above, I just realised why her name is Sphene like seconds before you said it. How did I NOT realise the Gemstone comparisone until now?
- Now I realise that the thematic reason is "Because it's cute that Gulool Ja got a Robot Dad that looked like him", but why in the absolute heck is Otis' Gundam Frame so similar in form and gait to a Mamool Ja?
- Did Origenics the first time as a White mage in Trust. I gave up after literally 10 attempts to take down Herpekaris. Tried again on Gunbreaker. Did it first try. Twelve above I hate that Philia Clone.
- "Hey Zoraal Ja, You done, gorging yourself on all those souls?
* /bstance *
Here's an After Dinner mint for you! As you can see, the blade is only wafer-thin! "
I think Otis is a mashup. The personality of Steiner, eyes of Vivi and body shape of Amarant. As far as the in-universe reason, no idea. Though we may get more on that. Otis was not linked to Alexandria's systems thus no backup. There was no reason why Zoraal Ja would have had the ability to control him without some further backstory there.
@@NemesisTWarlock The kid was something I cut for time reasons, but I suspect the problem won't be solved by a porxie. It sounds like an environmental problem, so the issue's way bigger than one Angelo can solve.
And yeah, Herpekaris is a BITCH in trusts as a healer. The Origenics run you see here was the second attempt.
So a few fun tidbits, a few of the folks in and around solution 9 are wearing Ronkan/sky deep gear, but a few are also wearing the "Alexandrian" gear out of the Alexander raids.
Also as far as I'm concerned solution 9 is Zanarkend, right down to our pilgrim and her guardians showing up to the ruins and being greeted by an undying queen of dubious morality.
The set dressing is IX but I think Zone 6 really hammers home that there's a lot of X lurking behind
@@bendonatier I picked out Alexandrian gear especially in zone six, because some NPCs are wearing an old glam of mine.
@@EinDose funnily enough the glam I had that used Alexandrian pieces, I replaced with Ronkan in preparation for Dawn trail. I couldn't have been more on the money.
When you started talking about Doctor Who the first I smiled so wide. Tbh I didn’t even make the first connection you did but the second one was exactly the first thing I thought of immediately
Edit - when I had the Sphene doesn’t have a fave food scene I was like ok so she’s either a robot or a ghost. In fiction if you don’t eat you’re either a robot or a ghost
For character parallels, you’re kinda half right with saying Zoraal Ja is an evil Zidane, he’s more close to Kuja, and since he’s the dark parallel and brother to Zidane, that would naturally make Wuk Lamat the Zidane stand in
Also I’m think that Galool Ja is supposed to be the Vivi stand in? Since he was “created” by the Kuja stand in and how the Steiner stand in acts very fatherly towards him. Very curious what direction they take his character in the post patches, I’m wondering if he’ll become a Mage to further confirm the reference and as a contrast to Zoraal Ja being a physical fighter
@@Kirby-Mania My current read is that Zoraal is a Zidane/Kuja mashup, and Sphene is Garnet/Garland. Combine the leads with their respective-importance antagonists.
Wuk as Zidane kinda works, but only in broad strokes that fit a lot of this sort of protagonist.
Re: Everywhere at the End of Time - I wasn't sure if they were explicitly referencing it until a certain point in the very last zone ;__; It hit so hard for me. My first time listening to that album had me screwed up for months u__u
I noticed that Otis had the voice and personality of Steiner, the eyes of Vivi (complete with black mage mind control) and the body shape of Amarant. I'm not sure it was entirely intentional, though it is likely that it was.
They're playing off this nightmarish soul consumption as a "cultural choice" which I find as offensive as I find the practice itself. We didn't come through the experience of learning very personally what the soul and its lifecycle really mean, including literally standing in the lifestream and encountering lost friends just to let this horror continue. If we don't do something to put a solid stop to it in the patch content, it may break something in me regarding my enjoyment of the game and the world building.
I understand the issue of being trapped in a pocket dimension with no access to a lifestream necessitated an artificial alternative, but they're on the source now and there are no excuses. If these people die so frequently that they just can't handle life without other people's living souls, they are just plain idiots. Maybe start with some railings around your aetheryte pit.
@@25xxfrostxx I think the Arcadion is picking up the soul supply/regulator plotline rather than the patch MSQs. Which is fine by me, the Arcadion is great.
@@EinDose I do really like the Arcadion story so far. Both the feel and the characters. Part of me secretly hopes the "President" ends up being the reflection of Godbert.
Regarding 14:44 and the cutscene with Zoraal Ja and Sphene, I think you just missed it. It is indeed in the Unending Journey: the quest Embracing Oblivion, cutscene #2.
@@TerryRunegardXIV-re1eg Huh! Thanks!
gods I hated that first dungeon boss. Could not get through it with trust and had to finally beat it with a full player party. Even then, took us 4 tries.
Oh yeah that thing was a tricky jerk, it took a while to figure out what it’s tells were.
I've been really enjoying watching these because I appreciate your enthusiasm and analysis, but I wish you'd given a warning before dropping what I can only assume are major FF9 spoilers 😞
I do respect that, and if this were a less off-the-cuff series I'd be noting those, but this is sort of a conversation you can't have without spoilers. And I actually didn't spoil that much, FFIX has A LOT going on.
@@EinDose Fair enough, I'll look forward to getting the proper context for those things you mentioned, along with everything else FFIX has to offer.