I think the reason why charge units are so plentiful and so good is that their design space is really simple, effective, and generically fun. Everyone can get into the idea of waiting turns to build up your big attack, and then going for it at the right time. It's just a simple, fun, and easy to intuit way to design a unit. I think new unit designs have been really good lately, but it's no surprise why there are so many charge units
Something tells me Ish is going to get a negative sanity ID in Season 3, it just makes sense for the EGO synergy. Also, while charge is still Unga Bunga, Season 2 made Rupture and Sinking viable (sinking originally being considered one of the worst status effects). Hopefully the other statuses get similar love next season (my hope is for poise synergy).
Honestly I hope nails gets some support maybe a rivet salvager in the “safer” parts of the salt lake A bleed ego based on the ocean life would be really cool honestly hope Don gets a nice debuff centric class since her current 2 star N Corp class is kinda of a mess of ideas
I agree, people are saying that it will be a new Ishmael Charge ID, but I disagree, this opens up a possibility for a very viable Negative Sanity Ishmael ID, which is FAR more interesting.
Does she need another ID though? She has four ids currently in the top tier, it would be hard to choose which one. Negative sanity ish would be very nice though
To be honest, I'll probably never not enjoy a Charge ID, but I also would love to see status effects like Poise and Bleed getting a META ID utilizing them, making them actually good while not needing as much care and tendering as our current ones.
In fact, I think that Bleeding will most likely receive a buff in the next Kurokumo IDs we receive and Poise in the next Blade Lineages or maybe even Smiling Faces IDs I think? Well, it's hard to know exactly because on the one hand it could be that Poise replaces Smoke from Library of Ruina, and apparently that's exactly what happened............. As for Bleeding, I see that the next Kurokumo IDs will definitely focus on making Bleeding more viable and perhaps even more meta, maybe we'll even receive self-bleeding IDs, like what the Chainlink Office was like in Library of Ruina.
Pequod Sang and Pequod Cliff. Literally a helluva combo. Now add Middle Don and Meursault and you have a 99 bleed potency game. Very fun in MDs when you see that 99 bleed damage every time you clash.
as one deeply infected by Charge Bias (w Corp don and r Corp Ishy my beloveds) i am desperately trying to repent. my mouse hovers over Cinq Don and Liu or Molar Boatworks Ishmael but then I black out for a moment, and suddenly I’m four and a half floors into md2h with a full charge team. I sneezed last week and when I looked up I had a 153 turn railway clear with 11k damage on W Corp ryoshu. i fear i may be doomed to this charge-based fate for the rest of my gacha-playing days…
While I don't know if I can fully sympathize with the dislike for charge, I can guess why it's so prominent in the game. Charge is a hold over from Library of Ruina, being a decently powerful effect from the late-mid game to the early end-game, meaning they already have a basis for how it would work, from there it would be simple to just port it over with minor changes, additionally, it also means they have a basis for how they might try to balance it, additionally the factions that use it (fully use it as their main mechanic, not what Rosespanner is doing) are some of the more prominent in the series. Pretty much all the buffs/debuffs got put into strange places by the transfer to Limbus, and things had to be changed to prevent certain powerful synergies that were possible in the previous game. One example bleed/burn no longer stacking infinitely allowing for massive amounts of damage to be dealt at once with certain builds, but the problem is now we fight enemies whose HP is usually vastly higher than what was in Library of Ruina, meaning that not only was the theoretical maximum damage reduced, but the amount required to actually impact the battle was increased, leading to those effects being less useful. Additionally, now that the effects that apply it are split between Potency, and Count, it's a lot harder to just lean fully into dealing max damage with each effect, which is nice as it makes team building more interesting but does somewhat limit how powerful the effects can be. Sinking has its own problems, one being Sinking Deluge, I've dealt over 10k damage in one go with the effect, and even without that actually having the ability to keep count up makes it just strong in general. I would guess the main reason it gets the support it does is that it's one of the brand-new, shiny effects, that is actually built around Limbus' combat, having unique effects against both Abnos and Humans, allowing it to flex the game design. Rupture just does not have the support it needs, you can technically build it, but it has like, one team comp that actually works, and even then its carried by one EGO to actually increase count, and not just maintain it, and that count increase is nowhere near as strong as Rime Shank is for Sinking, which I feal is a product of PM trying to show off the new Sinking effect on launch, as it was more interesting than just the flat damage of rupture. Side note about Sinking and Rupture, if they actually have full support, (which Sinking basically already has in Rodya's cold dead Rime Shank frozen heart) They can be so incredibly powerful with high coin skill IDs, which the game has been leaning towards recently, allowing skill ones to do hundreds of damage. Sinking is limited to abno fights for damage and has to contend with being an aligned damage type meaning its subject to resistances (for better or worse), but Rupture could be busted in any focused fight human or abno if it was able to more effectively stack potency and count with its ability to ignore things like resistances and even regular protection (though it might be mitigated in the future with rupture protection). Poise. Tremor is weird, I don't know how to feal about it, it's cool when it has extra effects attached to it, but it's not too useful without those effects, I feel like it might be a strange phantom version of Stagger Health, where even if you don't deal health damage as long as you lower their stagger bar your still moving forward, but now that stagger is tied to health, I really don't know what can be done with it other than what is being done with it, which is imitate charge, without actually being charge, or give it effects like the new Molar Outis, where bursting has an additional effect (USEFUL, additional effect, I'm looking at you Sloshing Ishmael Passive Ability). I feel like charge has good IDs because W Corp. and R Corp. are just cool conceptually, and I feel like the effect itself is so good because the only actual change from LoR is the reduced count on turn end. As for the popularity/cool factor angle, R Corp. and W Corp. have really interesting story sections in LoR, and had basically around a fifth of the fights dedicated to their story lines, meaning out of all the factions in the City other than L Corp. and The Library, they are the most fleshed out. At least in R Corps case they are known for combat and have pretty much always been strong wherever they appear in all three games. As for W Corp., couldn't tell you, other than Rip Space being very useful in LoR the only basis I can think of for why they are so strong is that the concept of fighting horrors on the time train is cool and scary, and W Corp. is associated with a certain reception that leaves a lasting impression. Then there is the charge as an effect itself, I feel like it's really just another case of PM balancing. As you have mentioned in your charge video, it is inherently not that interesting, only being a number that goes up so that other numbers go up, but in that case that doesn't change the fact that it's not that different to the IDs that use Tremor as a catalyst to upgrade their attacks. If I had to guess as to why it's pretty much only numbers increase for charge, it would have to be that that's pretty much the only effect that can really be carried over from LoR and be truly noticeable. Some effects Charge was used for off the top of my head are: increase numbers on Rip Space (which was translated literally), buff the unit with charge (found in R Meursault, and R Heathcliff), Draw cards (not really applicable), Gain light (also not really applicable), and Debuff (W Meursault and W Faust). I truly believe that one of the best parts about Library of Ruina, and hopefully eventually Limbus, is that if you play your cards right, you can make many different builds and strategies work, there will always be the "best" strategy, but most things can work out if you do them right. Charge has the unfortunate case of being first to be fully filled out (you could argue that's bleed but I won't believe in bleed until our glorious blood stained leader Sanguine Desire returns and allows us to roll very big funny numbers like last time), meaning the balancing can be... a bit wonky at times, but I'm fairly certain that it's just a matter of getting them out of the way before moving on to the other effects. They already had an idea for it, and so they can push out units that use the effect without having to consider the balance as much. I would love more effects to be given a proper look at, simply so that more options are available if nothing else, but charge is easy, and doesn't need that much to be changed to remain useful, so it will just be what it is for the time being until the other effects are molded into more effective forms. It's the boring answer, but ultimately, I find that those tend to be the correct ones. If you want my personal opinion on why the effect is being pushed so much (other than what is above) I think they just want to avoid another Sinking Deluge situation, where the fight can be completely ignored in favor of making one number go up until you hit it with the one move that deals a REALLY big number, at least with charge you have like, one or two turns where you actually have to pretend like you won't just Quick Suppression > Energy Current > Rip Space > Mind Whip > DDEDR and end the fight instantly. As for the new EGO? Ishmael needed a charge one, and the theme seems to involve storms, which have lightning, which is electricity, which is what charge is (?). It will absolutely be changed in some way before launch, but the only thing I can say with confidence (which may be misplaced, we will see) is that the cost will probably increase, if I had to guess it costs what it does so that you would have the opportunity to use it in the demo they provided at the TGS, and the actual cost will be around 15 maybe idk, I'm not really going to try and figure out balancing right now, but I don't think it will stay as low as it is right now. Oh yeah and Don Quixote Telepole I guess, but that like just lets you skip the first few turns of pretend and just nuke em so idk man. Anyway this was all just an excuse to burn time until Lantern Sinclair dropped, but I hope something in here is insightful to someone.
For buffs gained by inflicting status effects on enemies. I think the solution is to simply just gain the buff immediately if you kill them even if you didn't manage to build up the status effects required. That way other status effects can still be on par with charge.
Sorry for the late answer, but I feel like there is some history re-writting when it comes to Sinking in this Comment. When Limbus launched Sinking only had: Base Yi Sang, Base Hong Lu, G-Corp Outis, Marachi Sinclair, Reindeer Ishmael and both Hong Lu's Base EGO and Rime Shank. Up to the introduction of Season 2, Sinking was seen as a Garbage Effect, that everyone ignored in favour of Bleed and N-Corp shenanigans. Also, Rupture is way closer to actully hitting the sweet spot sooner then most people realise. Once it gets a Rime Shank EGO, that can be fueled by 7 Assosiation and Talisman Sinclair, things will be good to go. Heck, Talisman Sinclain in general doesn't get talked enough, because Talisman for Bossfigths can be legitamently crazy. P.S.: Sinking may be more intresting for the Sanity reduction effect, but Rupture being True Damage is a boon in itself. Also, with Canto 5 being literly on the Ocean, you just know there will be Enemies with Sinking resistence or even Kromer-tier Sinking Healing. Canto 4 already gave a preview with the first Dongbaek fight.
@@plinfan6541 Regarding Sinking when it launched, it had some pretty bad issues. Sinking launched with exactly 2 attacks that gave more count than they consumed, those being R Corp Ishmaels S2, and Rime Shank, meaning the only way to actually build it was essentially just to spam Rime Shank, which probably wouldn't have been too difficult given the sinking IDs fueled it decently. it also had the problem of sanity capping out at a 30%-coin flip change, so its basic effect was reduced in human fights. As for the main reason it's so strong now, I feal this is due to just how many fights we can actually make use of it. Off the top of my head the only fights where you could actually make use of it to do damage on launch were the three abnos main in the Canto 1 dungeon, as they are just standard abno fights, and Kromer in Canto 3 (which rolled high making sinking kind of risky, the launch sinking IDs do not roll all that high.) pretty much all the abnos in Canto 3 could have had Sinking used against them, but they all had their one minor problems that got in the way (the dogs were built to be dropped quickly one by one making stacking discouraged over raw damage, the slithering inquisitors had parts that broke removing effects and the Everything There(?) had the high rolls problem) I don't feel like it was all that useful in the human fights due to the way sanity worked, and the abno fights in chapter two are either the robots which are a gimmick fight, or the Baba Yaga chase sequence which is more focused on killing small guys very fast. it's just not usefully against smaller abno enemies, they don't really have the health to make wasting resources or sanity against, so it was pretty limited in usefulness. In the mirror dungeon is where I feal sinking is most effective, while I don't remember too much about M1, I don't believe that there were that many high health abno fights, which is where sinking truly shines, being able to melt through them with a few turns of set up, M1 didn't have any sinking gifts as well but they aren't really necessary with the current Sinking team, however that team didn't exist on launch, so who knows. What I was trying to say is not that it was good on launch, it didn't really get good until Canto 4, what it did do was show more ways to influence a fight, it showed off sanity, flat aligned damage, as well as the differences between abnormalities and humans in combat, I think Sinking was trying to be a way for Project Moon to say "there's a bunch of new mechanics in this game, and here is an effect that will allow you to interact with those new mechanics", rather than using SInking to replace or be better than what existed before. While they can't really nerf it now (or rather, probably won't), it will likely be less effective in Canto 4 as you said, even if they don't add sinking resistance, I would be a little surprised if the fish/eldritch enemies don't resist Gloom. With Rupture I guess my point might have been "oh, you can only use one team comp and one EGO (Gregors AEDD)", but I guess I completely forgot that Sinking is also, one team comp, with one carry EGO. Actually, rupture has roughly the same if not slightly more options, with 7 of the sinners having actual "Rupture IDs" (IDs that can apply rupture at all, excluding W Don, 7 Yi Sang, 7 Ryoshu, who barely apply any potency and no count), compared to sinkings 6 (IDs with any actual application, technically you can use base Hong Lu, but literally just using his base EGO every turn is a better choice) and 2 EGO wielding tag alongs with Ryoshu's soda and Hong Lu's base EGO. Me not talking about Red Sheet Sinclair is a skill issue on my part, I just cannot get him to work (not that I have tried all that much), I do see the potential in him, but I am just flat out not able to use him properly, so he slipped my mind. Rupture is good, flat damage is hugely useful, but its more so useful now that we are getting enemies with more resistances that Rupture can get around and gimmicks, we can subvert, the extra damage is always nice, but it's true strength is in its ability to ignore game mechanics. I think all of the effects would highly benefit from something like Rime Shank, and while I could have mentioned that in the comment above, it wasn't really the point. Honestly, I would love to spend hours going over everything in the game and speculating how it might be fixed, tweaked, buffed, nerfed, or changed for the better, and I might do that in in the future, (make a RUclips channel or something IDK) but for now I'll just stick to really long comments.
Charge ids are actually slightly fun without telepole but they are still stupidly powerful in the wrong ways Some examples of ids that sre powerful in the right ways would be suncliff (he needs a buff to make him more usable on teams but otherwise he's cool) talisminclair (cool rupture id that has nice gimmicks) Dieci Rodion (discard and insight) Molar Outis (discard, though more braindead than Dieci Rodion) and possibly spicesang (very debatable but I think that the stacking up tremor to do aoes and sinking to do deluges is like a more fun charge id)
I feel like the charge effect is a placeholder to not spoil the EGO effects, it makes no sense and 3 charge makes pretty much no difference at all (Same applies to the heal on Overclock version, it's really weird) EDIT: Oh, I forgot how On Hit worked... the charge gain is actually pretty insane
The EGO is pierce because of the sharp ends that hook into the enemy, by the way. Actual anchors aren’t that sharp, sure, but they also don’t have a serrated edge in the inner area too. Also, as for why it’s a charge EGO in addition to having some sinking effects; I mean, there are pipes lodged into the back of the abno and on Ish herself. Seems like a mix between a sea theme and all the trashy industrial waste that gets dumped in. It’s still thematically consistent with the stuff we’ve seen so far in U Corp’s Wing.
I agree with you about charge being way too relevant in the game, I was really hoping that this EGO would be sinking(and they might change it to be one during development) but we’ll just have to wait and see Also I think the best way to buff single coin skills is for PM to add an ID with a Singular Strike passive and skill set where the combat and support passive will buff the skill’s base and/or coin power if the skill has only 1 coin or add some sort of mechanic where if a single coin skill losses a clash or rolls disfavorablely it gets rerolled
Single coin skills will get fixed by turning them into multiply coins, my uncle works at Nintendo I can confirm this. Plus, this takes something from Charge (Old Rip Space being a x2 coin) and gives it to Single coins.
Nice idea and funny comment, however I just want to note that a 5 base + 25 coin is functionally the same as 5 base × 6 coin, so multiply coins sadly only make sense for multiple coin skills
Fun fact: the EGO/Abnormality tiers are based on Hebrew letters. That means Waw is pronounced more like "Vov," He is pronounced like "Hey," and Teth is pronounced "Tet" (I think).
@@jiyojiy6202 Aleph is pronounced "all-eff" (all like the English word), while Zayin's first syllable rhymes with "eye" and its second is just "in" like "in" in English.
Charge is cool and fun to use! In ruina it was my favorite and I'm glad its getting lots of love in Limbus!! I don't even spam OC Don-Telepole for most fights because the sanity drain is massive
I, as an ex member of now defunct TiLiD (Tremor is Left in Ditch) foundation that was disbanded after PM released an ID that wants enemies to have SIXTY tremor and four count to have full use of her passive humbly submit my application for a position at CBRA. One of my breakout studies included a case on Rosespanner Rodion so I'm already very familiar with slight cases of charge bias.
Kind of funny seeing Coin Power Up pop up again so close to Liu Ish, I thought they were avoiding that idea like plague considering how much power dominated in LoR with specific 3/4 dice pages and the ever missed Counter dice.
@@TakuHakureiBasically lone fixer(+3 attack power up), strongest+myo's prowress(Dice gain power based on speed, but dice also are infinite which means u always get the bonus)made you have +8 strength at MINIMUM with one character
@@TakuHakurei In LoR, there were a lot of effects that granted Power. Power is basically Coin Power Up, in a way. It boosted specific dice types in a combat page (Skill == Combat Page, basically, and Coin is similar to Dice). 3/4 Offensive dice pages would get absurd value from Power, kind of what esgoo mentions about specific IDs getting way more value out of it. Counter dice are completely different in LoR compared to limbus, in LoR it would attempt to clash with the incoming attack and if it won, it would recycle (go against the next clash) while also attacking, thus preventing damage and applying the power bonus on every counter attack against dice the enemy combat page had. So if an enemy hit you with a 3 coin, you'd basically have a 3 coin attack at him as long as you won all times. So in very late fights in LoR, you'd have someone with ridiculously increased power dealing heavy damage and preventing damage through winning clashes and counter attacking one-sided attacks, and a very specific encounter was notorious for having almost +5 power on its dices alongside with counter dices. I assumed this wasn't something the devs liked too much because they made increasingly more enemies who had effects like Power Null that denied the effects as the game development went on (Ruina was in EA and we'd get updates weekly). Coin Power Up feel like we're going back to that, but at least Limbus counter occurs after taking damage so it's not as dominating.
I did the math with molar outis, her skill 3 gets 2 coinpower from having 10 tremor and having the ishmael coinpower up now means the total 3 coin power up, meaning, with a base of four, four coins, and 6 increase per coin she can roll up to 28, basically a free ripspace
The problem with this ego is that it gives you too much advantage for too little cost, which means that not only will you be extremely strong due to the enhanced coins, but your morale will be high enough for encounters. The funny thing is that it could have been a good addition to average and weak egos, but in the end it just essentially breaks even more broken personalities, or boosts fairly strong personalities to the ceiling. The rest of the effects surprised me too, as Ishmael's charged personalities will be even more in demand with this ego, especially the versatile ones that don't require any particular command. Bottom line is that we got essentially a broken ego for broken personalities that both heals morale and strengthens all skills absolutely, especially if they have 3-4 coins in their skill.
what really bothers me is that, of any major charge id, reindeer ishmael needs a charge ego the LEAST any 2 attacks at all gets her comfortably into mind whipping range, which isn't a tough ask from an id with base numbers as outstanding as hers in most content
What about the Gloom Bias Disorder. What’ll happen to the other sins sitting in our sin affinity bar? I do hope we start getting EGO and ID designs that help push 1 coin skills. A lot of the worst IDs in the game have this as a big issue.
Hey ESGOO! Ive been loving your content. While i don't wanna put more on your plate, i wanted to ask: Have you considered putting out starter guides/builds for various teamcomps and strategies? Ive been loving your more analytical side of your content, and seeing how you might build and field a comp or strategy for a various status, core or what not would be a great bit of insight
I plan to eventually make an entirely new tutorial for new players. The current one just is not up to snuff, but I do already have projects lined up, once those are through, I want to spend time making that tutorial comprehensive enough to let new players less reliant on others for things like team building, since they will just...understand the game for themselves.
From the release of the game, I was a WDon charge enjoyer so I loved getting more charge support at first but it definitely feels like something's not quite right with this. I think it would have been cooler if they started implementing charge in a different way than just "gain more charge on hit lmao". At this point, I'm actually starting to get what I'm calling charge fatigue. It's just so overdone in ways that aren't special. Charge barrier on WHL was cool, but slapping it onto WRyo felt like like it was just tacking on the new thing to the new character. Slapping charge onto the rosespanner characters just felt like it was a badge to call them charge IDs and be done with it. If you removed the charge requirement from every rosespanner ID, they would fundamentally not change in any way. They wouldn't get a couple of small effects on the first turn, but every turn after that it's as if managing charge doesn't even exist. I am hopeful though that we get more IDs like Diedion with insight as the team's core mechanic. I'd also like it if there were more Shi Association support like maybe a support passive that reduces allies hp while removing stagger bars until their at 50% or less.
You have a point that charge bias is real, we have a lot of 000 IDs that use charge (6 of them) and a lot of EGO that also affect charge (2 AEDD, 3 Telepole, 2 Dimension Shredder). Though I think the +3 charge is kinda an afterthought. It might be targeted for those player who really want to use R Ishmael but does not uptie 4 her for some reason. The main benefit of the EGO in my opinion is the synergy it has with a full positive sanity team or negative sanity team (which we don't have yet). We might get more negative sanity IDs in the next season than in the last 2 seasons. Thanks for the video!
am I allowed to asked why charge is so bad (besides corroded don telepole) when unga bunga nclair exists? I kinda fancy building charge "normally", not so much 300 dmg turn 1 with 0 real condition
It is the bias towards it. Nclair is a single ID, and while he is insanely overstatted, he is not several IDs. Charge has gotten Warp Ryoshu and W Don, but on top of that, Reindeer Ishmael, Rhino Meursault, Warp Meursault, Warp Hong Lu, W Faust even got buffed from UT4. In fact, LOTS of charge IDs were buffed a TON by uptie 4’s changes, making the charge bias push that much more prevalent in my eyes. Truthfully, this all comes down to me thinking charge is boring. I wouldn’t mind as much if it was a status effect I liked. I just don’t like this one lol.
I see yeah, that's fair I'm a charge enjoyer so I didn't really realize the overabundance could be somewhat stale. hopefully other status (like bleed please) will receive some level of support soon
Part of it might be a seasonal thing, like how bleed was massively oversaturated in season 1 (which was probably part of the reason why kromer was nerfed, if you got unlucky in gacha it could be possible that most of your team would heal her). When if first saw this EGO (and what I actually though this video would be about) I suspected that the passive might be hinting at some new IDs that use Sinking as charge, kinda like has been done with tremor. Of course sinking being consumed on hit would make such IDs kinda volatile.
im trying to develop a counter disease, rupture bias, but with the biggest globals powers having our mentioned charge bias, its really been hard to be able to make relevant progress.
ngl this ego is so weird.... i mean sure its a WAW ego so it needs to step up a notch but like why the fuck does it have so many god damn effects? and how is the main one not sinking??????
So i am italian and i just wanted to say: NICE VIDEO, but if you ever pronounce dieci as daiaichi we are gonna have a problem. Me and you. You're gonna need all the charge you can gather to even try to clash with my fist Btw the correct pronunciation should be something around dee-eh-chi (i split it in syllables to make it easier to understand)
Honestly something like Liu Meur for different Statuses would be neat. Spreading count/potency around. Helps Tremor, helps Bleed, would probably help Rupture. Weirdly: Burn and Rupture kinda has the right of it in terms of how to build a ‘support structure’, while Tremor and Sinking have excellent Payoffs, but no shell to put them in yet
Actually it makes sense that it gives charge, Ish gets hit with a bunch of lightning bolts when hitting the enemy. Other than that, yeah, would be great to see other weaker ID's get a treat from time to time.
Man I do want support for rupture tbh. It is well positioned having K lu, sevens faust and talisman sinclair, I just wish it had a way to deal blunt damage. Copium for a Walking Pearl EGO because it looks like the crab we fight in SEA and it deals rupture damage.
Me, a charge enjoyer: he. In all seriousness single coin skills definitely need a bit of help to keep up. I think charge ids are great, but it's basically just a counter for how much hurt you can put out next turn. I was playing with a rupture team recently, and you really need to plan ahead to get your maximum use out of them, which was pretty refreshing after unga bunga charge nuking my way through railway. Honestly I'm pretty sure that PMoon decided that Ishmael has a charge id but no charge ego, so chucked that on.
I was gonna say "it's only +3 charge to ish it's not that much of a charge focus" then I remembered how aoe charge gain works and it really fell apart. Good thing I haven't Uptied R Ish to 4 (and don't plan to cause i like Liu and molar Ish more :D)!
I didn't realize beside the epic +2 plus coin on a turn 2 making a 33 QS that the corrosion could make sense for a negative id and isn't useless basically xdxd
I'd imagine corroded Blind Obsession makes minis coin team all corroded and hitting all people with AoE EGO. Both of Nclair and Hobocliff are not squishy, surviving team damage and killing enemy sound fun!
[8:14] Uhhh... actually, doesn't this mean that Minus Coin IDs will be punished MORE? Because they lose MORE power for flipping heads? Basically, Minus Coin Boost (like Plus Coin Boost) would _subtract_ Coin Power from a Skill. For example, a -3 Coin Power Skill becomes a -4. "Minus Coin Boost" would be the effect that adds to the power of Minus Coins, thus causing them to lose less power on flipping heads... Of course, I guess since we haven't actually seen Minus Coin Boost/Drop in the game yet (I think?) this could totally be wrong...
It doesnt matter the pm game, charge is always op as all hell (just look at an overcharged purple tear build for god sake). Tbf i would love to see smoke make a return, it is one of the most weird and interesting debuffs in the game
Charge will dominate the "early game", but it will probably fall off later on. And this would be relatively easy to compensate for by adding an effect that gives you proportionally more coin power the fewer coins you have, in theory. For example +10 coin power at 1 coin with -3 for every additional coin or something like that. The problem is that multiple coins usually deal superior damage to single coins. It would be more reasonable to give multi coin skills lower clashing power in exchange for dealing more damage or something, but all of the best skills are multi coin skills that have the highest clashing power in the game, outside of a few Egos, and often more chances to win a clash, even if you don't land all the coins. On top of that, each hit usually has some positive effect build in, meaning single coins couldn't hope to compete. And a + coin power at fewer coins effect would probably never be added because it would work with all Egos so far, unless later Egos are multi coin, making it too strong. Another possibility would be enemies inflicting a lot more sanity damage and single coins getting a much higher minimum roll, this would basically make most of the multi coin skills much weaker and disrupt low sanity IDs due to corrosion. The problem here being Fluid Sac, so unless you add SP gain down, more SP damage won't do much.
yeah charge is great unless you start with S3 in the bottom slot and you cant fire tele because I aint burning this skill and you grind your charge up for a few turns
dog why are you making a big deal about sinking, there's litteraly 2 characters in the game that can use it efficiently and almost the entire reason it can be used at all is because of rimeshank which is just one individually great EGO. rupture is where the real playmaking is at. It's harder to set up, but nothing else can deal as much damage as rupture can and we just got like 3 great different tools for it when talisman sinclair and AEDD gregor already made it possible.
I think at this point PM has given up and embraced powercreep. At the start of the season we got ids like rrodya, rosemeur, kitsunecliff, rgreg, khong, sloshish. Then we started getting ids like drodya, wryo, zwei greg, even the 00s like whong and zfaust were very good. (zrodya isnt real) As much as I hate it, I feel like as time goes on, the lower tiers are gonna fall further off a cliff and the strongest will only continue to get stronger, or be replaced by a new stronger id. This new ego essentially being some kind of fluid sac and sunshower hybrid on crack, is certainly doing exactly that. I don't expect massive balance changes since pm seems allergic to it (but nah faust base ego can die lol), so I feel it's just gonna keep going down this path in the future
@@kyorine._.8416 I'm not sure if it's actually ever referred as such in the game, but that's what he means by that, at least because of the Library of Ruina.
I think one thing is for sure, I understand that charge is starting to get boring and repetitive asf for some people, but on the other hand there are no more charges IDs to be added, probably the most we will get is the near future will be a W Corp Yi Sang, a Myo Ryoshu and a Nikolai Outis, but other than that I don't see we getting so many more charge IDs or EGOs inspired by Wings and Syndicates from lore because there simply isn't anything else to add. So I believe that perhaps now starting in the 3rd or 4th season, Project Moon will start to invest more in expanding the other Wings and Syndicates of Ruina that are present in Limbus, we literally just got the Ruina Discard gimmick and it's just amazing, I'm hopeful that Project Moon is just having trouble deciding how to bring it in the best possible way IDs from other Syndicates and Wings that cover others status effect. And I believe that probably now by the end of the 2nd and the first part of the 3rd season we will receive more Dieci IDs and more standard fares from other Syndicates, especially because there are some Syndicates that do not received a new ID practically since the game's launch...
@diaframe535 Plus we literally see several other IDs in the backgrounds of the current R and W Corp casts. It's no question at all that we'll be seeing more in the future
@diaframe535 Yes, we can still receive season IDs linked to the charge, but because we have practically exhausted the number of characters with IDs with some gimmick linked to charge, we will increasingly see fewer charge IDs on Standard Fare, If original charge IDs or EGOs come as content for a season, that's another discussion. Basically, based on the number of charge IDs and EGOs that we currently have, Project Moon has fewer and fewer options to bring in new already know groups that idealize charge, as I said, we will probably only receive a few last characters from R Corp and a single one or two from W Corp, I'm not taking into account the possibility of Cane Office appearing but on the other hand Cane Office was just Bada, Martina and Nemo so there would only be 3 IDs and would probably be more about get advantages by they being together than actually by charge.
@@snipermagoo yeah, rosespanners are a hybrid of charge and tremor, I liked them a lot actually and wish we had received more rosespanner IDs, but I think that would be a bit difficult in the future because they are season 2 IDs and not from standard fare.
Look we still need the last rrr Corp character. But poise would be nice or burn. Ishmael still needed a charge ego for her kit in rrr Corp. Rupture has support but nothing crazy. Tremor is fine. Sinking is cool and needs love. Bleed has not had a lot of love. We could also see more insight or new stuff
don't think I hope Charge wont get nerf, I love charge comps since LoR. I hope other team comp get buff instead, like poise and burn. Burn is one of my fav mechanic to play around but it's simply too weak compare to other team for current meta, ik charge is dominating but I hope every team comp will get push to the point like charge did
There is a lot of ideas to make single coiners work better than multi coiners It's just we are not at the stage where PM wants to really do that it seems? Look at commemorative coin from md2 We could have a "singleton" thing Where if an ally uses/used a single coin attack, singleton procs for an effect (or literally call it anything else tbh) since we already have effects like that in mirror dungeons Charge Sinking and Tremor has been the theme for s2, a bit of rupture here and there And even then, Tremor is still.. a status effect in limbus company But I for once hope s3 will be more about Burn and Bleed And prolly charge since, realistically, a lot of people like charge and R corp/W corp IDs are just... sick design wise
Does the Charge even matter? It's 3 Charge. That isn't really significant to R Ish's kit. Coin Boost is just kind of general. TBH I'd like it if they removed the Charge on the EGO. It really isn't important. I do agree that Charge could do with less at this point, it has so much. And if it was sinking Molar/R Ish could get a Sinking EGO!
@@dep7910 Oh. I didn't realize. What the fuck. Yeah, why is that Charge? R Ish doesn't need that. Like, I'm a Charge main and even I think that's too much.
What about an effect that gives a lot of power but plus coin power down, so ids with less coins can do a lot better? Also, how the hell is this not a sinking ego? I mean, what? How? Huh? Not sinking? The corrosion literally has them sink???
Charge did nothing wrong. Other teams around debuffs just don't have any core IDs and mostly core E.G.Os (Tremor (tremor burst without effects, kekw), Rupture (AEDD is now good but not core, because most Rupture IDs don't have gloom skills, but there are also some supportive E.G.Os that are really solid), Bleed, Poise, Burn (ok, but they mostly E.G.O for big numbers)). Charge was just the first completed team. Just need some time to wait for new releases. *Copium intensifies* Btw, the Charge team is not that strong. A truly devastating team is discard. Hana will likely also be about discard.
Regarding Yi Sang's Sunshower, the 15 SP heal is actually per number of targets hit. So you can potentially heal back up to +45 SP when hitting 3 or more targets on Heads roll. Either we have another case of Butcher Viand-like misleading description or this doesn't seem to be intended.
@@blade6965 it's not [On Hit], the SP heal is still on Heads roll only. You won't heal sp on Tails roll. The issue is you heal 15 SP for each target hit after rolling Heads, which is not listed in the description.
SIngleton? In Limbus? To buff single coin skills? Its called "Singular Strike", not singleton. And yes, make that a thing pls. But that would mean either another Shi (a proper Valentin gimme), another BL (a proper Kim gimme) or another Liu (burning flash my beloved). On that note, why and how would PM implement singleton into Limbus? I guess for Index identities... Here's what i think: "if ID has only one speed slot, gain [whatever]". Or "when using skills that weren't used in previous turn, gain [whatever]".
![The Tragic Simplicity of Base IDs (and how to fix them) [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UNtmHa3OAxg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company] Bug Shenanigans](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6lUTreVQoos/mqdefault.jpg)
Well. This aged very poorly, and thank god for it. Good job Project Moon, you did a balance.
BUT THE ABNORMALITY DOES NOT EVEN USE CHAR-
🙏
PM number 1 rule: If it breaths(or not, we dont judge), it charges.
HAIL CHARGE! HAIL PMOON!!
I think the reason why charge units are so plentiful and so good is that their design space is really simple, effective, and generically fun. Everyone can get into the idea of waiting turns to build up your big attack, and then going for it at the right time. It's just a simple, fun, and easy to intuit way to design a unit. I think new unit designs have been really good lately, but it's no surprise why there are so many charge units
So good even Ryoshu loves charge's design
LONG LIVE ENVY NUKES
GLORY TO SKIPPING LIMITATIONS WITH POWERCREPT EGO
We don't have enough charge
Something tells me Ish is going to get a negative sanity ID in Season 3, it just makes sense for the EGO synergy.
Also, while charge is still Unga Bunga, Season 2 made Rupture and Sinking viable (sinking originally being considered one of the worst status effects). Hopefully the other statuses get similar love next season (my hope is for poise synergy).
Honestly I hope nails gets some support maybe a rivet salvager in the “safer” parts of the salt lake
A bleed ego based on the ocean life would be really cool honestly hope Don gets a nice debuff centric class since her current 2 star N Corp class is kinda of a mess of ideas
I agree, people are saying that it will be a new Ishmael Charge ID, but I disagree, this opens up a possibility for a very viable Negative Sanity Ishmael ID, which is FAR more interesting.
Another ish ID? Yesss sirr lets goo
I’m curious to see if they do anything with burn because while bleed is worse it has some content with nails and fanatic, meanwhile burn is just… burn
Does she need another ID though? She has four ids currently in the top tier, it would be hard to choose which one. Negative sanity ish would be very nice though
ESGOO I have a charge bias please I need a cure. I don't know what a ego is unless it's Telepole
Don’t worry! PM is simply going to give every new ego charge
To be honest, I'll probably never not enjoy a Charge ID, but I also would love to see status effects like Poise and Bleed getting a META ID utilizing them, making them actually good while not needing as much care and tendering as our current ones.
In fact, I think that Bleeding will most likely receive a buff in the next Kurokumo IDs we receive and Poise in the next Blade Lineages or maybe even Smiling Faces IDs I think? Well, it's hard to know exactly because on the one hand it could be that Poise replaces Smoke from Library of Ruina, and apparently that's exactly what happened.............
As for Bleeding, I see that the next Kurokumo IDs will definitely focus on making Bleeding more viable and perhaps even more meta, maybe we'll even receive self-bleeding IDs, like what the Chainlink Office was like in Library of Ruina.
@@marseilles_exe1349there is actually one top tier poise Id, Blade Lineage Yi Sang, as his uptie 4 made him so much stronger.
@@marseilles_exe1349Yi-Sang 1 grade fixer
pequod heathcliff:
basically every season 3 identity having poise:
Pequod Sang and Pequod Cliff. Literally a helluva combo. Now add Middle Don and Meursault and you have a 99 bleed potency game. Very fun in MDs when you see that 99 bleed damage every time you clash.
As a day one charge enjoyer, all I can say is that we keep on winning. Really hoping this does not age poorly.
Esteban. I really like the logic and review of characters for the Waw EGO.
amazing way to both combine an issue that needs to be seriously addressed and to make it super unexpected and funny
I can see WHY charge was included in the EGO, lightning storm and all, though it does seem like a lazy tack-on.
Went off the entire video without calling Tremor "yellow charge".
You sir have my respect
as one deeply infected by Charge Bias (w Corp don and r Corp Ishy my beloveds) i am desperately trying to repent. my mouse hovers over Cinq Don and Liu or Molar Boatworks Ishmael but then I black out for a moment, and suddenly I’m four and a half floors into md2h with a full charge team. I sneezed last week and when I looked up I had a 153 turn railway clear with 11k damage on W Corp ryoshu. i fear i may be doomed to this charge-based fate for the rest of my gacha-playing days…
While I don't know if I can fully sympathize with the dislike for charge, I can guess why it's so prominent in the game.
Charge is a hold over from Library of Ruina, being a decently powerful effect from the late-mid game to the early end-game, meaning they already have a basis for how it would work, from there it would be simple to just port it over with minor changes, additionally, it also means they have a basis for how they might try to balance it, additionally the factions that use it (fully use it as their main mechanic, not what Rosespanner is doing) are some of the more prominent in the series.
Pretty much all the buffs/debuffs got put into strange places by the transfer to Limbus, and things had to be changed to prevent certain powerful synergies that were possible in the previous game.
One example bleed/burn no longer stacking infinitely allowing for massive amounts of damage to be dealt at once with certain builds, but the problem is now we fight enemies whose HP is usually vastly higher than what was in Library of Ruina, meaning that not only was the theoretical maximum damage reduced, but the amount required to actually impact the battle was increased, leading to those effects being less useful. Additionally, now that the effects that apply it are split between Potency, and Count, it's a lot harder to just lean fully into dealing max damage with each effect, which is nice as it makes team building more interesting but does somewhat limit how powerful the effects can be.
Sinking has its own problems, one being Sinking Deluge, I've dealt over 10k damage in one go with the effect, and even without that actually having the ability to keep count up makes it just strong in general. I would guess the main reason it gets the support it does is that it's one of the brand-new, shiny effects, that is actually built around Limbus' combat, having unique effects against both Abnos and Humans, allowing it to flex the game design.
Rupture just does not have the support it needs, you can technically build it, but it has like, one team comp that actually works, and even then its carried by one EGO to actually increase count, and not just maintain it, and that count increase is nowhere near as strong as Rime Shank is for Sinking, which I feal is a product of PM trying to show off the new Sinking effect on launch, as it was more interesting than just the flat damage of rupture.
Side note about Sinking and Rupture, if they actually have full support, (which Sinking basically already has in Rodya's cold dead Rime Shank frozen heart) They can be so incredibly powerful with high coin skill IDs, which the game has been leaning towards recently, allowing skill ones to do hundreds of damage. Sinking is limited to abno fights for damage and has to contend with being an aligned damage type meaning its subject to resistances (for better or worse), but Rupture could be busted in any focused fight human or abno if it was able to more effectively stack potency and count with its ability to ignore things like resistances and even regular protection (though it might be mitigated in the future with rupture protection).
Poise.
Tremor is weird, I don't know how to feal about it, it's cool when it has extra effects attached to it, but it's not too useful without those effects, I feel like it might be a strange phantom version of Stagger Health, where even if you don't deal health damage as long as you lower their stagger bar your still moving forward, but now that stagger is tied to health, I really don't know what can be done with it other than what is being done with it, which is imitate charge, without actually being charge, or give it effects like the new Molar Outis, where bursting has an additional effect (USEFUL, additional effect, I'm looking at you Sloshing Ishmael Passive Ability).
I feel like charge has good IDs because W Corp. and R Corp. are just cool conceptually, and I feel like the effect itself is so good because the only actual change from LoR is the reduced count on turn end.
As for the popularity/cool factor angle, R Corp. and W Corp. have really interesting story sections in LoR, and had basically around a fifth of the fights dedicated to their story lines, meaning out of all the factions in the City other than L Corp. and The Library, they are the most fleshed out. At least in R Corps case they are known for combat and have pretty much always been strong wherever they appear in all three games. As for W Corp., couldn't tell you, other than Rip Space being very useful in LoR the only basis I can think of for why they are so strong is that the concept of fighting horrors on the time train is cool and scary, and W Corp. is associated with a certain reception that leaves a lasting impression.
Then there is the charge as an effect itself, I feel like it's really just another case of PM balancing. As you have mentioned in your charge video, it is inherently not that interesting, only being a number that goes up so that other numbers go up, but in that case that doesn't change the fact that it's not that different to the IDs that use Tremor as a catalyst to upgrade their attacks. If I had to guess as to why it's pretty much only numbers increase for charge, it would have to be that that's pretty much the only effect that can really be carried over from LoR and be truly noticeable.
Some effects Charge was used for off the top of my head are: increase numbers on Rip Space (which was translated literally), buff the unit with charge (found in R Meursault, and R Heathcliff), Draw cards (not really applicable), Gain light (also not really applicable), and Debuff (W Meursault and W Faust).
I truly believe that one of the best parts about Library of Ruina, and hopefully eventually Limbus, is that if you play your cards right, you can make many different builds and strategies work, there will always be the "best" strategy, but most things can work out if you do them right. Charge has the unfortunate case of being first to be fully filled out (you could argue that's bleed but I won't believe in bleed until our glorious blood stained leader Sanguine Desire returns and allows us to roll very big funny numbers like last time), meaning the balancing can be... a bit wonky at times, but I'm fairly certain that it's just a matter of getting them out of the way before moving on to the other effects. They already had an idea for it, and so they can push out units that use the effect without having to consider the balance as much.
I would love more effects to be given a proper look at, simply so that more options are available if nothing else, but charge is easy, and doesn't need that much to be changed to remain useful, so it will just be what it is for the time being until the other effects are molded into more effective forms.
It's the boring answer, but ultimately, I find that those tend to be the correct ones.
If you want my personal opinion on why the effect is being pushed so much (other than what is above) I think they just want to avoid another Sinking Deluge situation, where the fight can be completely ignored in favor of making one number go up until you hit it with the one move that deals a REALLY big number, at least with charge you have like, one or two turns where you actually have to pretend like you won't just Quick Suppression > Energy Current > Rip Space > Mind Whip > DDEDR and end the fight instantly.
As for the new EGO? Ishmael needed a charge one, and the theme seems to involve storms, which have lightning, which is electricity, which is what charge is (?). It will absolutely be changed in some way before launch, but the only thing I can say with confidence (which may be misplaced, we will see) is that the cost will probably increase, if I had to guess it costs what it does so that you would have the opportunity to use it in the demo they provided at the TGS, and the actual cost will be around 15 maybe idk, I'm not really going to try and figure out balancing right now, but I don't think it will stay as low as it is right now.
Oh yeah and Don Quixote Telepole I guess, but that like just lets you skip the first few turns of pretend and just nuke em so idk man.
Anyway this was all just an excuse to burn time until Lantern Sinclair dropped, but I hope something in here is insightful to someone.
I was not expecting a thesis when i clicked read more
Yeah cool point and all but... Telepole don
For buffs gained by inflicting status effects on enemies. I think the solution is to simply just gain the buff immediately if you kill them even if you didn't manage to build up the status effects required. That way other status effects can still be on par with charge.
Sorry for the late answer, but I feel like there is some history re-writting when it comes to Sinking in this Comment. When Limbus launched Sinking only had: Base Yi Sang, Base Hong Lu, G-Corp Outis, Marachi Sinclair, Reindeer Ishmael and both Hong Lu's Base EGO and Rime Shank. Up to the introduction of Season 2, Sinking was seen as a Garbage Effect, that everyone ignored in favour of Bleed and N-Corp shenanigans. Also, Rupture is way closer to actully hitting the sweet spot sooner then most people realise. Once it gets a Rime Shank EGO, that can be fueled by 7 Assosiation and Talisman Sinclair, things will be good to go. Heck, Talisman Sinclain in general doesn't get talked enough, because Talisman for Bossfigths can be legitamently crazy.
P.S.: Sinking may be more intresting for the Sanity reduction effect, but Rupture being True Damage is a boon in itself. Also, with Canto 5 being literly on the Ocean, you just know there will be Enemies with Sinking resistence or even Kromer-tier Sinking Healing. Canto 4 already gave a preview with the first Dongbaek fight.
@@plinfan6541
Regarding Sinking when it launched, it had some pretty bad issues.
Sinking launched with exactly 2 attacks that gave more count than they consumed, those being R Corp Ishmaels S2, and Rime Shank, meaning the only way to actually build it was essentially just to spam Rime Shank, which probably wouldn't have been too difficult given the sinking IDs fueled it decently.
it also had the problem of sanity capping out at a 30%-coin flip change, so its basic effect was reduced in human fights.
As for the main reason it's so strong now, I feal this is due to just how many fights we can actually make use of it. Off the top of my head the only fights where you could actually make use of it to do damage on launch were the three abnos main in the Canto 1 dungeon, as they are just standard abno fights, and Kromer in Canto 3 (which rolled high making sinking kind of risky, the launch sinking IDs do not roll all that high.) pretty much all the abnos in Canto 3 could have had Sinking used against them, but they all had their one minor problems that got in the way (the dogs were built to be dropped quickly one by one making stacking discouraged over raw damage, the slithering inquisitors had parts that broke removing effects and the Everything There(?) had the high rolls problem)
I don't feel like it was all that useful in the human fights due to the way sanity worked, and the abno fights in chapter two are either the robots which are a gimmick fight, or the Baba Yaga chase sequence which is more focused on killing small guys very fast.
it's just not usefully against smaller abno enemies, they don't really have the health to make wasting resources or sanity against, so it was pretty limited in usefulness.
In the mirror dungeon is where I feal sinking is most effective, while I don't remember too much about M1, I don't believe that there were that many high health abno fights, which is where sinking truly shines, being able to melt through them with a few turns of set up, M1 didn't have any sinking gifts as well but they aren't really necessary with the current Sinking team, however that team didn't exist on launch, so who knows.
What I was trying to say is not that it was good on launch, it didn't really get good until Canto 4, what it did do was show more ways to influence a fight, it showed off sanity, flat aligned damage, as well as the differences between abnormalities and humans in combat, I think Sinking was trying to be a way for Project Moon to say "there's a bunch of new mechanics in this game, and here is an effect that will allow you to interact with those new mechanics", rather than using SInking to replace or be better than what existed before.
While they can't really nerf it now (or rather, probably won't), it will likely be less effective in Canto 4 as you said, even if they don't add sinking resistance, I would be a little surprised if the fish/eldritch enemies don't resist Gloom.
With Rupture I guess my point might have been "oh, you can only use one team comp and one EGO (Gregors AEDD)", but I guess I completely forgot that Sinking is also, one team comp, with one carry EGO.
Actually, rupture has roughly the same if not slightly more options, with 7 of the sinners having actual "Rupture IDs" (IDs that can apply rupture at all, excluding W Don, 7 Yi Sang, 7 Ryoshu, who barely apply any potency and no count), compared to sinkings 6 (IDs with any actual application, technically you can use base Hong Lu, but literally just using his base EGO every turn is a better choice) and 2 EGO wielding tag alongs with Ryoshu's soda and Hong Lu's base EGO.
Me not talking about Red Sheet Sinclair is a skill issue on my part, I just cannot get him to work (not that I have tried all that much), I do see the potential in him, but I am just flat out not able to use him properly, so he slipped my mind.
Rupture is good, flat damage is hugely useful, but its more so useful now that we are getting enemies with more resistances that Rupture can get around and gimmicks, we can subvert, the extra damage is always nice, but it's true strength is in its ability to ignore game mechanics.
I think all of the effects would highly benefit from something like Rime Shank, and while I could have mentioned that in the comment above, it wasn't really the point.
Honestly, I would love to spend hours going over everything in the game and speculating how it might be fixed, tweaked, buffed, nerfed, or changed for the better, and I might do that in in the future, (make a RUclips channel or something IDK) but for now I'll just stick to really long comments.
Charge ids are actually slightly fun without telepole but they are still stupidly powerful in the wrong ways
Some examples of ids that sre powerful in the right ways would be suncliff (he needs a buff to make him more usable on teams but otherwise he's cool) talisminclair (cool rupture id that has nice gimmicks) Dieci Rodion (discard and insight) Molar Outis (discard, though more braindead than Dieci Rodion) and possibly spicesang (very debatable but I think that the stacking up tremor to do aoes and sinking to do deluges is like a more fun charge id)
I feel like the charge effect is a placeholder to not spoil the EGO effects, it makes no sense and 3 charge makes pretty much no difference at all
(Same applies to the heal on Overclock version, it's really weird)
EDIT: Oh, I forgot how On Hit worked... the charge gain is actually pretty insane
The real effect is going to be apply 10 sinking and sinking count and then sinking deluge fr fr
@@mrtheman5061sinking mafia stays winning
ESGOO FOR PRESIDENT OF THE LIMBUS COMPANY! TAKE THE CHARGE FOREFINGERS OUT OF OUR GACHA!!
Bleed stays losing 😔 It really is odd that the funny anchor underwater EGO gives charge though,,,
The anti charge propaganda is enticing, but I must hold out for a Gregor charge ID!
I forgot about Poise
there is lightning though, so i guess that’s why?
@@spaghetti8058don’t worry after uptie 4 project moon did too
@@spaghetti8058MAXIM GREGOR WILL COME
The EGO is pierce because of the sharp ends that hook into the enemy, by the way. Actual anchors aren’t that sharp, sure, but they also don’t have a serrated edge in the inner area too.
Also, as for why it’s a charge EGO in addition to having some sinking effects; I mean, there are pipes lodged into the back of the abno and on Ish herself. Seems like a mix between a sea theme and all the trashy industrial waste that gets dumped in. It’s still thematically consistent with the stuff we’ve seen so far in U Corp’s Wing.
Charge is now the new Yesod floor. The JPEG man always found a way to unga bunga.
I agree with you about charge being way too relevant in the game, I was really hoping that this EGO would be sinking(and they might change it to be one during development) but we’ll just have to wait and see
Also I think the best way to buff single coin skills is for PM to add an ID with a Singular Strike passive and skill set where the combat and support passive will buff the skill’s base and/or coin power if the skill has only 1 coin or add some sort of mechanic where if a single coin skill losses a clash or rolls disfavorablely it gets rerolled
i love how he didnt even mention sloshing in the ishmael ids😭😭😭
so true, I used to be an arsonist, until RR2 came and changed my life, now I'm one of the victims of charge bias 😔
🔥make burn nation great again 🔥
Single coin skills will get fixed by turning them into multiply coins, my uncle works at Nintendo I can confirm this. Plus, this takes something from Charge (Old Rip Space being a x2 coin) and gives it to Single coins.
Nice idea and funny comment, however I just want to note that a 5 base + 25 coin is functionally the same as 5 base × 6 coin, so multiply coins sadly only make sense for multiple coin skills
@@thefool2320except for the fact that getting power buffs will multiply those power buffs, which can lead to some interesting things.
@@thefool2320 no, more coins means more hits means more damage (assuming all heads/perfect rolls on both attacks)
Single coin skills need help
Fun fact: the EGO/Abnormality tiers are based on Hebrew letters. That means Waw is pronounced more like "Vov," He is pronounced like "Hey," and Teth is pronounced "Tet" (I think).
Thanks for the info! What about Aleph and Zayin?
@@jiyojiy6202 Aleph is pronounced "all-eff" (all like the English word), while Zayin's first syllable rhymes with "eye" and its second is just "in" like "in" in English.
@@juliangabriel Thank you!
Charge is cool and fun to use! In ruina it was my favorite and I'm glad its getting lots of love in Limbus!! I don't even spam OC Don-Telepole for most fights because the sanity drain is massive
I, as an ex member of now defunct TiLiD (Tremor is Left in Ditch) foundation that was disbanded after PM released an ID that wants enemies to have SIXTY tremor and four count to have full use of her passive humbly submit my application for a position at CBRA. One of my breakout studies included a case on Rosespanner Rodion so I'm already very familiar with slight cases of charge bias.
Kind of funny seeing Coin Power Up pop up again so close to Liu Ish, I thought they were avoiding that idea like plague considering how much power dominated in LoR with specific 3/4 dice pages and the ever missed Counter dice.
Care to explain it to someone who never played LoR? I kinda intrigued
@@TakuHakureiBasically lone fixer(+3 attack power up), strongest+myo's prowress(Dice gain power based on speed, but dice also are infinite which means u always get the bonus)made you have +8 strength at MINIMUM with one character
@@TakuHakurei In LoR, there were a lot of effects that granted Power. Power is basically Coin Power Up, in a way. It boosted specific dice types in a combat page (Skill == Combat Page, basically, and Coin is similar to Dice). 3/4 Offensive dice pages would get absurd value from Power, kind of what esgoo mentions about specific IDs getting way more value out of it. Counter dice are completely different in LoR compared to limbus, in LoR it would attempt to clash with the incoming attack and if it won, it would recycle (go against the next clash) while also attacking, thus preventing damage and applying the power bonus on every counter attack against dice the enemy combat page had. So if an enemy hit you with a 3 coin, you'd basically have a 3 coin attack at him as long as you won all times.
So in very late fights in LoR, you'd have someone with ridiculously increased power dealing heavy damage and preventing damage through winning clashes and counter attacking one-sided attacks, and a very specific encounter was notorious for having almost +5 power on its dices alongside with counter dices. I assumed this wasn't something the devs liked too much because they made increasingly more enemies who had effects like Power Null that denied the effects as the game development went on (Ruina was in EA and we'd get updates weekly). Coin Power Up feel like we're going back to that, but at least Limbus counter occurs after taking damage so it's not as dominating.
Best Limbus content creator, keep em coming big guy
I did the math with molar outis, her skill 3 gets 2 coinpower from having 10 tremor and having the ishmael coinpower up now means the total 3 coin power up, meaning, with a base of four, four coins, and 6 increase per coin she can roll up to 28, basically a free ripspace
wdym "free" Rip Space, Rip Space is cheaper since it only costs 10 charge, which is easier to build even when not using Dondon Telepole
basically a rup space, but instead of stacking charge on yourself, you stack tremor on yourself.
"rabbit heathcliffe is a charge id" ok lets not get too crazy now
As the creator of Mobius Office, I love charge
The problem with this ego is that it gives you too much advantage for too little cost, which means that not only will you be extremely strong due to the enhanced coins, but your morale will be high enough for encounters.
The funny thing is that it could have been a good addition to average and weak egos, but in the end it just essentially breaks even more broken personalities, or boosts fairly strong personalities to the ceiling.
The rest of the effects surprised me too, as Ishmael's charged personalities will be even more in demand with this ego, especially the versatile ones that don't require any particular command.
Bottom line is that we got essentially a broken ego for broken personalities that both heals morale and strengthens all skills absolutely, especially if they have 3-4 coins in their skill.
what really bothers me is that, of any major charge id, reindeer ishmael needs a charge ego the LEAST
any 2 attacks at all gets her comfortably into mind whipping range, which isn't a tough ask from an id with base numbers as outstanding as hers in most content
I’ll agree with that very weird choice
I love the design but the effect is just kinda weird and doesn’t fit really well
What about the Gloom Bias Disorder. What’ll happen to the other sins sitting in our sin affinity bar?
I do hope we start getting EGO and ID designs that help push 1 coin skills. A lot of the worst IDs in the game have this as a big issue.
0:08 pls NOT USE white screen, i blind, 4 AM
Charge is getting the love it barely even got in LoR.
Discard guide in the future?
Hey ESGOO! Ive been loving your content. While i don't wanna put more on your plate, i wanted to ask: Have you considered putting out starter guides/builds for various teamcomps and strategies? Ive been loving your more analytical side of your content, and seeing how you might build and field a comp or strategy for a various status, core or what not would be a great bit of insight
I plan to eventually make an entirely new tutorial for new players. The current one just is not up to snuff, but I do already have projects lined up, once those are through, I want to spend time making that tutorial comprehensive enough to let new players less reliant on others for things like team building, since they will just...understand the game for themselves.
I hope we get an EGO that gives Poise. Outis' Sunshower is not enough. Something to boost Blade Lineage and Kurokumo Rodion.
Wake up honey new ESGOO video dropped
PM was so scared about making Rupture too good they complety ignored the fact they have been giving Charge and Sinking back to back good IDs.
From the release of the game, I was a WDon charge enjoyer so I loved getting more charge support at first but it definitely feels like something's not quite right with this. I think it would have been cooler if they started implementing charge in a different way than just "gain more charge on hit lmao". At this point, I'm actually starting to get what I'm calling charge fatigue. It's just so overdone in ways that aren't special. Charge barrier on WHL was cool, but slapping it onto WRyo felt like like it was just tacking on the new thing to the new character. Slapping charge onto the rosespanner characters just felt like it was a badge to call them charge IDs and be done with it. If you removed the charge requirement from every rosespanner ID, they would fundamentally not change in any way. They wouldn't get a couple of small effects on the first turn, but every turn after that it's as if managing charge doesn't even exist.
I am hopeful though that we get more IDs like Diedion with insight as the team's core mechanic. I'd also like it if there were more Shi Association support like maybe a support passive that reduces allies hp while removing stagger bars until their at 50% or less.
K Corp Hong Lu was also pretty interesting.
You have a point that charge bias is real, we have a lot of 000 IDs that use charge (6 of them) and a lot of EGO that also affect charge (2 AEDD, 3 Telepole, 2 Dimension Shredder). Though I think the +3 charge is kinda an afterthought. It might be targeted for those player who really want to use R Ishmael but does not uptie 4 her for some reason. The main benefit of the EGO in my opinion is the synergy it has with a full positive sanity team or negative sanity team (which we don't have yet). We might get more negative sanity IDs in the next season than in the last 2 seasons. Thanks for the video!
am I allowed to asked why charge is so bad (besides corroded don telepole) when unga bunga nclair exists? I kinda fancy building charge "normally", not so much 300 dmg turn 1 with 0 real condition
It is the bias towards it. Nclair is a single ID, and while he is insanely overstatted, he is not several IDs. Charge has gotten Warp Ryoshu and W Don, but on top of that, Reindeer Ishmael, Rhino Meursault, Warp Meursault, Warp Hong Lu, W Faust even got buffed from UT4. In fact, LOTS of charge IDs were buffed a TON by uptie 4’s changes, making the charge bias push that much more prevalent in my eyes.
Truthfully, this all comes down to me thinking charge is boring. I wouldn’t mind as much if it was a status effect I liked. I just don’t like this one lol.
I see yeah, that's fair I'm a charge enjoyer so I didn't really realize the overabundance could be somewhat stale. hopefully other status (like bleed please) will receive some level of support soon
thank you so much for the warning
LET’S GO ANOTHER ESGOO VIDEO WOOOOH
8 months later and now its starting to feel like charge anti-bias. We havent had a charge ID since W Sang
well well well
Part of it might be a seasonal thing, like how bleed was massively oversaturated in season 1 (which was probably part of the reason why kromer was nerfed, if you got unlucky in gacha it could be possible that most of your team would heal her).
When if first saw this EGO (and what I actually though this video would be about) I suspected that the passive might be hinting at some new IDs that use Sinking as charge, kinda like has been done with tremor. Of course sinking being consumed on hit would make such IDs kinda volatile.
im trying to develop a counter disease, rupture bias, but with the biggest globals powers having our mentioned charge bias, its really been hard to be able to make relevant progress.
dieci is pronounced "dee-eh-chee"
it is italian for the number 10, its also close to the word for number 10 in spanish, hope that helps o/
"YOUR GREED RUINS THE ECONOMY" -Ishmael
2:03 Wrath
Gluttony
Gloom
heh such attention to silliest of details..
we need singleton to buff single coins sloshmael finally gets her buff
Everybody gangsta till PMoon releases a plethora of new enemies and bosses who hard counter Charge units. 😭
ngl this ego is so weird.... i mean sure its a WAW ego so it needs to step up a notch but like why the fuck does it have so many god damn effects? and how is the main one not sinking??????
I just want a fifth burn ID T-T, fckin railway crybaby doll crushed my hopes and dreams
So i am italian and i just wanted to say: NICE VIDEO, but if you ever pronounce dieci as daiaichi we are gonna have a problem. Me and you. You're gonna need all the charge you can gather to even try to clash with my fist
Btw the correct pronunciation should be something around dee-eh-chi (i split it in syllables to make it easier to understand)
Waiting for multi coin EGOs
Honestly something like Liu Meur for different Statuses would be neat. Spreading count/potency around. Helps Tremor, helps Bleed, would probably help Rupture. Weirdly: Burn and Rupture kinda has the right of it in terms of how to build a ‘support structure’, while Tremor and Sinking have excellent Payoffs, but no shell to put them in yet
Ah yes, charge also made me went through DABDA except it's actually DABD
Actually it makes sense that it gives charge, Ish gets hit with a bunch of lightning bolts when hitting the enemy. Other than that, yeah, would be great to see other weaker ID's get a treat from time to time.
**Kills this guy in the most British way possible**
You uh, really like suncliff don't you... judging by how much you were talking about him.
Man I do want support for rupture tbh. It is well positioned having K lu, sevens faust and talisman sinclair, I just wish it had a way to deal blunt damage. Copium for a Walking Pearl EGO because it looks like the crab we fight in SEA and it deals rupture damage.
Me, a charge enjoyer: he.
In all seriousness single coin skills definitely need a bit of help to keep up. I think charge ids are great, but it's basically just a counter for how much hurt you can put out next turn. I was playing with a rupture team recently, and you really need to plan ahead to get your maximum use out of them, which was pretty refreshing after unga bunga charge nuking my way through railway.
Honestly I'm pretty sure that PMoon decided that Ishmael has a charge id but no charge ego, so chucked that on.
my pro R corp urge fighting my anti charge bias
new esgoo content amazing
Too bad I can't get any charge IDs, so charge bias simply does not affect me.
Bota approves!
I wish that instead of self-tremor psuedo-charge we get something more interesting like self-bleed like the rusted chains from LoR
I was gonna say "it's only +3 charge to ish it's not that much of a charge focus" then I remembered how aoe charge gain works and it really fell apart. Good thing I haven't Uptied R Ish to 4 (and don't plan to cause i like Liu and molar Ish more :D)!
I didn't realize beside the epic +2 plus coin on a turn 2 making a 33 QS that the corrosion could make sense for a negative id and isn't useless basically xdxd
I'd imagine corroded Blind Obsession makes minis coin team all corroded and hitting all people with AoE EGO. Both of Nclair and Hobocliff are not squishy, surviving team damage and killing enemy sound fun!
Would be cool if they added a buff that adds a bunch of power to a single coin skill. As always, i'm looking forward to the Index IDs.
I just want to use Rupture and not feel like I'm hamstringing myself. Can I get that? Some Rupture count? Farmwatch?
No?
Ok ...
[8:14] Uhhh... actually, doesn't this mean that Minus Coin IDs will be punished MORE? Because they lose MORE power for flipping heads?
Basically, Minus Coin Boost (like Plus Coin Boost) would _subtract_ Coin Power from a Skill. For example, a -3 Coin Power Skill becomes a -4.
"Minus Coin Boost" would be the effect that adds to the power of Minus Coins, thus causing them to lose less power on flipping heads...
Of course, I guess since we haven't actually seen Minus Coin Boost/Drop in the game yet (I think?) this could totally be wrong...
That would make this EGO effect totally useless.
It doesnt matter the pm game, charge is always op as all hell (just look at an overcharged purple tear build for god sake). Tbf i would love to see smoke make a return, it is one of the most weird and interesting debuffs in the game
Charge will dominate the "early game", but it will probably fall off later on. And this would be relatively easy to compensate for by adding an effect that gives you proportionally more coin power the fewer coins you have, in theory. For example +10 coin power at 1 coin with -3 for every additional coin or something like that. The problem is that multiple coins usually deal superior damage to single coins. It would be more reasonable to give multi coin skills lower clashing power in exchange for dealing more damage or something, but all of the best skills are multi coin skills that have the highest clashing power in the game, outside of a few Egos, and often more chances to win a clash, even if you don't land all the coins. On top of that, each hit usually has some positive effect build in, meaning single coins couldn't hope to compete. And a + coin power at fewer coins effect would probably never be added because it would work with all Egos so far, unless later Egos are multi coin, making it too strong. Another possibility would be enemies inflicting a lot more sanity damage and single coins getting a much higher minimum roll, this would basically make most of the multi coin skills much weaker and disrupt low sanity IDs due to corrosion. The problem here being Fluid Sac, so unless you add SP gain down, more SP damage won't do much.
Uptie 4 for new ids?
yeah charge is great unless you start with S3 in the bottom slot and you cant fire tele because I aint burning this skill and you grind your charge up for a few turns
dog why are you making a big deal about sinking, there's litteraly 2 characters in the game that can use it efficiently and almost the entire reason it can be used at all is because of rimeshank which is just one individually great EGO.
rupture is where the real playmaking is at. It's harder to set up, but nothing else can deal as much damage as rupture can and we just got like 3 great different tools for it when talisman sinclair and AEDD gregor already made it possible.
Soon the era of charge will be over. Soon brothers, smoke will bleak the skies. Faces will smile, gears will turn, and workshops will thrive.
I think at this point PM has given up and embraced powercreep.
At the start of the season we got ids like rrodya, rosemeur, kitsunecliff, rgreg, khong, sloshish.
Then we started getting ids like drodya, wryo, zwei greg, even the 00s like whong and zfaust were very good. (zrodya isnt real)
As much as I hate it, I feel like as time goes on, the lower tiers are gonna fall further off a cliff and the strongest will only continue to get stronger, or be replaced by a new stronger id.
This new ego essentially being some kind of fluid sac and sunshower hybrid on crack, is certainly doing exactly that. I don't expect massive balance changes since pm seems allergic to it (but nah faust base ego can die lol), so I feel it's just gonna keep going down this path in the future
So what is awakening?
Is this a new feature coming or am i missing something?
No, that's the name of the regular (non-corrosion) form of an EGO
@@Disorder2312 Never noticed that, thanks for answering
@@kyorine._.8416 I'm not sure if it's actually ever referred as such in the game, but that's what he means by that, at least because of the Library of Ruina.
you sound like you could do with some charge R corp identities
I think one thing is for sure, I understand that charge is starting to get boring and repetitive asf for some people, but on the other hand there are no more charges IDs to be added, probably the most we will get is the near future will be a W Corp Yi Sang, a Myo Ryoshu and a Nikolai Outis, but other than that I don't see we getting so many more charge IDs or EGOs inspired by Wings and Syndicates from lore because there simply isn't anything else to add. So I believe that perhaps now starting in the 3rd or 4th season, Project Moon will start to invest more in expanding the other Wings and Syndicates of Ruina that are present in Limbus, we literally just got the Ruina Discard gimmick and it's just amazing, I'm hopeful that Project Moon is just having trouble deciding how to bring it in the best possible way IDs from other Syndicates and Wings that cover others status effect.
And I believe that probably now by the end of the 2nd and the first part of the 3rd season we will receive more Dieci IDs and more standard fares from other Syndicates, especially because there are some Syndicates that do not received a new ID practically since the game's launch...
@diaframe535 Plus we literally see several other IDs in the backgrounds of the current R and W Corp casts. It's no question at all that we'll be seeing more in the future
@diaframe535 Yes, we can still receive season IDs linked to the charge, but because we have practically exhausted the number of characters with IDs with some gimmick linked to charge, we will increasingly see fewer charge IDs on Standard Fare, If original charge IDs or EGOs come as content for a season, that's another discussion. Basically, based on the number of charge IDs and EGOs that we currently have, Project Moon has fewer and fewer options to bring in new already know groups that idealize charge, as I said, we will probably only receive a few last characters from R Corp and a single one or two from W Corp, I'm not taking into account the possibility of Cane Office appearing but on the other hand Cane Office was just Bada, Martina and Nemo so there would only be 3 IDs and would probably be more about get advantages by they being together than actually by charge.
They just invented Rosespanner, I don't see that as being an issue.
@@snipermagoo yeah, rosespanners are a hybrid of charge and tremor, I liked them a lot actually and wish we had received more rosespanner IDs, but I think that would be a bit difficult in the future because they are season 2 IDs and not from standard fare.
Look we still need the last rrr Corp character. But poise would be nice or burn. Ishmael still needed a charge ego for her kit in rrr Corp. Rupture has support but nothing crazy. Tremor is fine. Sinking is cool and needs love. Bleed has not had a lot of love. We could also see more insight or new stuff
We need a floor lifter
don't think I hope Charge wont get nerf, I love charge comps since LoR. I hope other team comp get buff instead, like poise and burn. Burn is one of my fav mechanic to play around but it's simply too weak compare to other team for current meta, ik charge is dominating but I hope every team comp will get push to the point like charge did
There is a lot of ideas to make single coiners work better than multi coiners
It's just we are not at the stage where PM wants to really do that it seems?
Look at commemorative coin from md2
We could have a "singleton" thing
Where if an ally uses/used a single coin attack, singleton procs for an effect (or literally call it anything else tbh) since we already have effects like that in mirror dungeons
Charge Sinking and Tremor has been the theme for s2, a bit of rupture here and there
And even then, Tremor is still.. a status effect in limbus company
But I for once hope s3 will be more about Burn and Bleed
And prolly charge since, realistically, a lot of people like charge and R corp/W corp IDs are just... sick design wise
Does the Charge even matter? It's 3 Charge. That isn't really significant to R Ish's kit. Coin Boost is just kind of general.
TBH I'd like it if they removed the Charge on the EGO. It really isn't important. I do agree that Charge could do with less at this point, it has so much. And if it was sinking Molar/R Ish could get a Sinking EGO!
It’s on hit, meaning against 5 enemies that is 15 charge gained in a single ego
@@dep7910 Oh. I didn't realize. What the fuck. Yeah, why is that Charge? R Ish doesn't need that. Like, I'm a Charge main and even I think that's too much.
its too late, i've already constructed the charge team
What about an effect that gives a lot of power but plus coin power down, so ids with less coins can do a lot better?
Also, how the hell is this not a sinking ego? I mean, what? How? Huh? Not sinking? The corrosion literally has them sink???
Charge did nothing wrong. Other teams around debuffs just don't have any core IDs and mostly core E.G.Os (Tremor (tremor burst without effects, kekw), Rupture (AEDD is now good but not core, because most Rupture IDs don't have gloom skills, but there are also some supportive E.G.Os that are really solid), Bleed, Poise, Burn (ok, but they mostly E.G.O for big numbers)). Charge was just the first completed team. Just need some time to wait for new releases. *Copium intensifies*
Btw, the Charge team is not that strong. A truly devastating team is discard.
Hana will likely also be about discard.
Estaban, i have a bleed bias, do i have a disease
Regarding Yi Sang's Sunshower, the 15 SP heal is actually per number of targets hit. So you can potentially heal back up to +45 SP when hitting 3 or more targets on Heads roll. Either we have another case of Butcher Viand-like misleading description or this doesn't seem to be intended.
i think it's supposed to be "[heads hit] heal 15 sp" as in description but instead it's "[on hit] heal 15 sp"
@@blade6965 it's not [On Hit], the SP heal is still on Heads roll only. You won't heal sp on Tails roll. The issue is you heal 15 SP for each target hit after rolling Heads, which is not listed in the description.
Can I ask what software you use for editing?
Davinci Resolve 18.5, the free version of course.
@@therealESGOO Awesome, thanks!!
honestly I would like this ego a lot more if it's corroded affects was just it's based effects
SIngleton? In Limbus? To buff single coin skills? Its called "Singular Strike", not singleton. And yes, make that a thing pls. But that would mean either another Shi (a proper Valentin gimme), another BL (a proper Kim gimme) or another Liu (burning flash my beloved).
On that note, why and how would PM implement singleton into Limbus? I guess for Index identities... Here's what i think: "if ID has only one speed slot, gain [whatever]". Or "when using skills that weren't used in previous turn, gain [whatever]".
We will gain a singular strike status and single coins will be saved, trust!
single coin ids will have their vengeance, mass singular strike will be real