The true tragedy of base IDs is that Heathcliff never gets a chance to use his funny baseball bat. he even got it custom-made with his own decal and all.
Personally my guess is that we'll get not base IDs but "original" IDs with the outfits you see in the mugshots at some point in the story. Those would also fulfill the "canonical ID" niche that the base IDs currently kinda suck at. Edit: also, considering that both prior games had "this specific character goes through some shit and gets powered up," I'd expect *something* in this vein in the future.
I expected a power up for Crow's Eye View after canto 4 with Yi Sang's wings to happen, but unless they add that now which feels pretty weird I'm not sure if they will do a bade ID thing either. Maybe with uptie 5?
I hope so much that we get something like limbus company shipuden after everyone has gotten their own arc and they power up and we go for new, even grander quest but this time as actual team not a bunch of criminals who just stick together because of personal gains TT
As the strongest Curse, ESgoat, fought the fraud, the King of ID mechanics, he began to open his domain. Charge shrunk back in fear, then ESgoat said: “Stand proud Charge, you are strong”.
Cut to reality when esgoat got bisected in half because the charge says: i use rip space and Dimensional Demonic Edge Dimension Rift to target the space he is currently in therefore bypassing his hate on charge. Charge: Well done Esgoat, I'll never forget about you as long as im the META 😂😂
@@therealESGOOshe knows the outcome, so it's possible she knows she can't avoid that attack. It would be fun to have something like 1+99 unaffected by sanity evade. Though it would also be horrible gameplay-wise for something like that to exist (memories of BoD still haunt me). Coming from LoR, I love that sanity exists.
Man i want an ID that is literally just "Blocked, Blocked, Blocked, your all blocked". Give us that 000 -5 offense level Mersault who is just an insane damage reflect tank.
@@GA7273 "Blockma" is a meme reference to Project moons previous game, Libary of ruina. Where a charecter called "Hokma" and his "floor" could get a special power to deal damage when blocking. And you could straight up murder people by essentially making them hit themselves. It was absoulute hilarious.
The way Limbus works is most similar to idol games like Bang Dream, Project Sekai, etc, or some otome games like twisted wonderland or promise of wizard. The 'small cast, pull multiple versions of them' thing.
But with Limbus their personalities are slightly altered when you use different ID's meaning you're never actually using the REAL them unlike those other gacha games where they just change outfits etc.
I know this is a small detail but Twisted Wonderland isn't an otome game lmao, it's just a visual novel that happens to have a player character. But yeah, Limbus Company is probably aiming for a similar like Otome Game "Card"s, just in a slightly different way.
For healthcliff and ishmael I find it funny if you added a special effect called "annoyed" to both of them when they both standing next to each other on the dashboard Which increase damage deal by 10% and 1 more clash power Like they try to be better than other in combat
@@localmemer708 that would be incorrect Since ishmael is smart,she wouldn't pick a fight with healthcliff and get into trouble She would get annoyed however
I love the idea behind the Meursault rework because it also fits thematically very well imo. The sense I got from the book is that Meursault is someone who goes through life mostly just following the flow of things and reacting rather than making and choosing actions for himself. Altering his kit so that although his active skills are still weak but his defensive skill, which is something inherently reactive to other people's actions, being one of his best options fits so well
Meursault and Don Quixote, i feel like they would feel great as one of those duos, they are weirdly simmilar (specially when don drops her façade in canto 2, she sounds very...meur-like) and i feel like the faster speedster paired out with the slowest tank is a pretty fun synergy to have.
Arknights made a character for everyone Nikke made a character for each BMI index And limbus made a character for each mental illness with multiple flavors.
I do kind of want to draw attention to base Ishmael's skill 3, because it has something that made it nice for tremor teams right at the start of the game (and no, not that it has none of those rotten "reduce tremor count after bursting tremor" effects). She did not care whether she showed up early or late. If she used her Skill 3 early, then everybody would pile in on that blunt fragility for bonus damage. If she used it late, then it could actually burst a tremor. I feel like there's a few too many skills that are designed for a sinner to be in a specific order, and you can't easily control haste on key sinners that don't already have "be at X or faster to get Y bonus". I feel like more skill 3 that rely on being early or late in a turn should get bonus effects so they can still do nice things if they have to be used at the opposite end of attack order.
I think the default ids should be improved via Uptiers or another potential ability unlocks. Further more, we saw the capability of the sinners during later chapters where they easily able to subdue enemies through cutscenes whereas before they struggles somewhat.
It was pretty cathartic to witness Ishmael mow down the twinhooks with what was canonically just her LCB ID with the addition of just her whetted as fuck harpoon.
>"Synergy" mechanic Come on, "Sinnergy" was right there on the table! Also, I do have to mention how many games do go out of their way to make their starters viable, just look at FGO's Mash or any Pokemon game, so just having a gacha system does not exactly mean your starters have to be bad. Something very niche, but still viable sounds like the best way to handle them, so I do agree with the general premise of the video. Good job!
I've actually been really interested in the base IDs and have been looking into a challenge run with them, so seeing someone remember them try to fix them is really interesting. One thing, at 11:55 you mention 2 Fragile same turn being a useful utility, and I agree with that, however, from what I can remember through some testing, Yi Sang's skill 3 currently inflicts the Fragile next turn despite the description, at least from what I can tell. I'd double check but as I'm writing this the game's during maintenance. If I'm wrong, sorry, but if I'm right, it's still really cool to see someone give the base IDs attention at all, and I cannot blame you in the least for not noticing such a minor thing.
To contribute to the actual discussion, one possibility for base ID buffs I like is a kind of "class" system. Given we seem to now be headed to 6-sinner fights being the standard, if the 12 sinners were split across 6 "roles," 2 a piece, there could be some interesting team-building choices. Like Meursault and Gregor, both tanks, but Meursault works as a tank through high HP, Protection, and Aggro (He deserves it), while Gregor works as a tank through self-healing, comparatively solid speed allowing for interception, and actual clashing. Yi Sang and Ishmael could both serve as high-speed support/debuffers, with Yi Sang being more hard support with Sinking, Fragile, and Attack Power Down from Crow's Eye View, but mediocre clashing, while Ishmael is more hybrid, having solid clashing numbers but below average damage, and inflicting Tremor and Blunt Fragility. Some other possibilities include Don and Sinclair both as clash-focused damagers, Rodya and Faust being unopposed status/debuff inflictors, and so on. There obviously isn't a lot of basis for some of the better base IDs to put them in niches, but I like the idea of the base roster introducing several roles IDs can serve while also showing their potential variants.
I just got into this game and took to Gregor really fast given the silver-tongue and laid back employee vibe, him being part bug _on top of_ me _liking_ bugs is just icing on the cake. So to see him with my favorite Pokemon type on his description [BUG], I got a little smile.
one thing i think would be cool to justify the buff is that, when you use a mirror id, you use an id who completed their story, their development, they are at their peak, but the base havent completed their story and they are still developing as a character
Fucking THANK you. I don't have a damn clue if you'll see this, it's a three month old video and we all have things to do, but genuinely thank you for making content like this. I'm very new to Limbus, but I've played a lot of other gachas or just RPG element heavy games, and I've always kind of been... that guy. 9 times out of 10 I'm like 1 of 3 people who cares about the wider balance of these games, so it is genuinely CATHARTIC to see somebody else care whatsoever. Like, for example, I'm pretty deep in the Punishing Gray Raven trenches . A lot of my favorite units happen to be legacy picks - and let me tell you that can be an awful experience. PGR's design philosophy splits its unit releases into "generations"; so you'll have a gen 1 attacker unit and then a gen 2 attacker. Gen 2 attackers are literally, on a system-mechanics level, designed to beat out the gen 1 units entirely and NOBODY CARES. NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT THIS, EVER, IT'S JUST A NORMAL THING AND IT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL. Go talk to people who play PGR and you'll either get a shrug or a "why bother?" I'm not kidding, the fundamental concept of people wanting to use alternative options not for statistical benefit but for fun factor does not exist within the confines of that game, it literally isn't there and it's insane to me that that's... just how things are. PGR has 3 really prominent guidemakers, and none of them bother. Straight up, the lack of care for this one facet of the game is at an almost comedic level. It goes further too, because I've brought this up with other people online and response is generally... not positive. The main thing I hear hovers along the lines of "well if you don't want to play meta, don't compete", and that's obnoxious for a lot of reasons. I want to be able to enjoy the game at a high knowledge and execution level even if I'm not using cutting edge strategies. I always make it clear that I don't actually care about topping leaderboards or anything. More than anything I want to take units I like, flawed or not, to their highest potential points; and hey, in that sense? Yeah, fair enough, I'm not gunning for the top and that's okay. The problem is that philosophy then becomes a rediculously broad game of excluded middle and a very thinly veiled way to say "this does not impact me because I enjoy the current gen units, please stop pointing out that this piece of media I'm enjoying has a problem." Kuro Games, the developers behind PGR, are hardly amoral - but they do listen to the majority of their fanbase that simply... doesn't care. An issue like that will literally never change because nobody even wants to acknowledge it. I say all of this to say thank you for having an interest in these things. I don't use this story as a means to garner sympathy nor build some kind of mythologized echochamber about the wisdom of the LC community. Despite their flaws, PGR and the many other games I play are things I enjoy at the end of the day, and I'm generally a pretty happy person even if I have a critical streak with the things I love. No, i do not want your sympathy - I want you to keep doing what you're doing, because speaking from experience this kind of shit is a genuine service. Obviously don't let that go to your head, but the willingness to shine light on a problem as just a problem (not the machinations of our benevolant all knowing God emperors who can do no wrong OR a corporate scheme to cheat us out of artificially inflated numbers) is such a breath of fresh air. The fact that you don't swing to the other end of the spectrum and try to kick PM in the balls for every mistake they make is really good too, please be curteous to the people whom you're trying to influence. I started thinking about all this when I watched your charge video. "This is meta, but it's also quite boring" is something most people not only don't say in most of the circles I'm in but certainly don't use as a reason to change the meta thing, when that's like literally the best form of community engagement you could ask for when it comes to any piece of media ever. You're not doing God's work, but you're helping a LOT of fucking people by giving a platform to these ideas, let me tell you. If there's anything I pray you take away from this borderline corroded tirade of mine, I'd prefer it to be two things. One: There are absolutely other people who care, you probably know that due to... having an audiance in the first place, but I really do want to reaffirm that sentiment. Two: this kind of content is so, so insanely worth it. It's a great thing to like a piece of media despite it's flaws, and ultimately if the fanbase can muster coherent, constructive feedback to the developers like this it is in their buisness interest to adhere to it. I really doubt PM has their eyes on your videos directly, but the sentiment you're putting out there has ripples; so keep that up. The best Limbus Company will be one that confronts its shortcomings irrespective of how many might sing its praises, and I guess it's just cool to finally be interested in a game that feels like it even has that oppertunity in the first place. Apologies for the frankly asanine length of this all, I think about this a lot. If you don't ever see this, that's okay. If you see it and think I'm a little too schizophrenic for my own good, that's also fine. I just wanted to say I appriciate the nuance that goes into this stuff and that you're doing something good for the community at large. Again, don't let it go to your head (I mean that in the not mean way I promise LOL), but you deserve to know that the positive impacts of this kind of stuff are real and tangible.
As much as I like some of the ideas, I think the way they'll actually "buff" the base sinners is by releasing a new version of them down the road that's not gonna be a mirror version but rather an evolution of the base sinners, like "E.G.O. Awakened Yi-Sang", "Bearer of The Sign Sinclair" or "Metamorphed Gregor" kind of deal.
I think what will happen instead, is that later on in the story (perhaps after each Sinner's final Canto) they'd get new 0 IDs with new abilities they get after whatever emotional epiphany they experience happens. I think that's also what Aleph EGOs will be since every Sinner (with the exception of Mersault who will likely get an EGO completely unrelated to Chains of Others' abilities since by god would it be sad if by the end of Limbus Company his EGO is still just the manifestation of his acceptance of having his life controlled by others) has a half-baked EGO that's likely only a small taste of what they'll be able to do once they fully accept who they are.
I feel like Chains of Others could be kept by just slightly tweaking the name, Chaining Others. Mersault is no longer the bound he is the binder, he will push, pull and yank others to do as HE wants for once.
It makes 100x more sense if each sinners base ego got buffed after completing their canto but for some reason that’s not a thing despite the egos dialogue changes
I play with base IDs. Currently at early Canto 4. Even though I do have access to better ID's. I just love leveraging my Base ID's to progress through tough challenges.
Unrelated: According to Dante's Notes, the Mirror Identity function (Invented by Yi Sang, using his mirror, shown from Canto IV), veils the Sinner and essentially transforms them into their Identity for the battle. Shown in Canto V, Sinners can be knocked out of their identity (May be a cutscene only), as Ishmael was visibility knocked out of her selected Identity by the Big Brother in his fight.
At the very least, I expected their support passive to be improved, but we didn't even get that for Uptie 4. The only way I'd see them making changes these extreme if there was some way to unlock these changes from the Gacha. Like some kind of promotion item is added to the Sinner specific gachas that pop up that allow you to upgrade the LCB Sinner ID. Two reasons I'd think this would be the case is that 1, they probably would want to monetize this kind of effort. Secondly, at some point, the buffs on the LCB Sinners would just make them 00 IDs. At which point, why not make a new 00 ID instead of trying to straddle the line of balance with the 0 IDs? Sinner Promotion is really the only way I could see this being a thing. It makes sense naturally since we kind of expect our goons to be stronger after going through hell and back. It also makes sense for balance since a promotion would give an excuse for why a 0 ID would be as strong as a 00 ID if the LCB Sinner was "promoted" to a 00 ID.
I started playing LoR recently... and I'm kinda afraid of the word Blockma Anyway, good f***ing video. Was giggling like an idiot half the time watching it. Based and optimistic, as always. Which is why I like your videos. And the work with sprites and animations, man, the next step is a f***ing fan 2D animations, like WTF
except for 1 thing I don't like every time you videos end like 0.5 second sooner than they should and it cuts out the end of your phrase It gives me physical pain alike that Dante feel when rewinding the clock
This video is very good. I approve. One change i would make to all of Ryosho's ids is to make her speed range have very low base speed but very high max speed, i would make her base id speed be a 1-9, it would make sense for her since she has Splatter, a skill that wants to go last but she also is a competent sinner, so her max speed would make sence being very high. Ryosho is often a very unpredictable sinner in the story. Sometimes, she even gets all the sinners in trouble because of her uncontrollable nature, so would be fitting for her to have a really low base speed.
Great video Esgoop, loved your ideas, some of them for purely selfish reasons, I play story chapters with only the base ids, so you can imagine anything that would make that more fun is great for me. I specially liked your buffs for Don and Meursault, but I seriously love the concept of ids having synergies between each other. I think making each id give a buff to someone and be buffed by someone else would be the ideal implementation, this would bring some strategic decision making into running all base ids, as it currently stands, you choose them based on damage types and resistances and ignore stuff like bleed or tremor. Let's use Sinclair as an example, he could buff Ryoshu, giving her a modest buff, based around his kit and ego, like more damage on mismatched coins, at the same time, he's buffed by Rodya, giving him Slay's +1 skill power when below 0 sp. By making each sinner give and receive buffs, we can get another layer of complexity for team building with base ids, so not only do we need to consider damage types and sin affinities, but also passives and this new "synergy" buffs, fundamentally making base Faust more interesting than her EGO spam and horrible clashing. Or we could get charge at uptie VIII, that would be cool I guess
I have a really wierd base hong lu rework idea, since PM choose to name hong lu from the book name 紅樓夢, instant of any character form the book, I'm going to make the base id reflect that, and since the book is about how a family strive and crumble down, I'm making this id a reverse change id. Passive(2 sloth owned): heal 6 sp, if sp below 0, gain 6 sinking instead. Evade: [On Evade] heal 6 sp Skill one: [On clash win] gain 2 "prosperity" Skill two: If "prosperity" is above 5, coin power +1 I:[On hit] gain 1 "prosperity" II:[Head hit] gain 2 "prosperity" Skill three:[Combat start] consume all "prosperity", gain fragile this turn and next turn per stacks of "prosperity", if "prosperity" is above 10, also gain sinking per stacks of "prosperity" and gain two sinking count. This effect will also trigger when this skill get discord by EGO/Evade. Prosperity: when Combat start, gain one attack level up per stacks of prosperity, if prosperity is above 10, also gain 2 attack dmg up. I really want PM to design base ids to reflect their lore, also I want to see a id that discourage player to use Skill three.
The day we see Meursault get a passive that lets him literally throw Base Don at the enemy (to bypass his slow speed and sacrifice his turn for some kind of buff and so Don can get at the enemy faster) will be a fantastic day in the sun.
I think all of your changes are really what I want out of the base IDs. Not big numbers, but really niche and gimmicky fun things. Alternately they could also each be a starter or tutorial character for each gimmick like bleed on Rodya and poise on Ryoshu (idk who burn would be maybe heathcliff or Ishmael)
Another great video ESGOO well done, well done. I loved the ideas here especially for Don as it makes her a very fun ID which I feel is necessary for every Don ID. Also base Meursault, it would be a blessing to have an ID with thorns. Although I think that the reflect damage should be Sloth as it’s the defense skill sin affinity. However I do see how pride makes sense that’s my only disagreement with the IDs. Great video nonetheless keep it up!
I wish they had made the base units have no status effect tie-ins. It would've been so fucking funny to have the base IDs to just be raw numbers, I.E. Outis and Sinclair.
I'd love to imagine a game where your main casts start of decent or weak, then progressively getting stronger as the characters become more developed either through their level or through skills and abilities. While it's unlikely for base IDs to get progressive fixed level, I'd like to see their Egos and/or their skills and passives become stronger. For example, buff 7 sinners' base IDs (Gregor, Rodion, Sinclair, Yi Sang, Ishmael, Heatcliff and Don Quixote) since they've been through their problems and showing signs of growth.
As you said, it does feel like now that the base IDs and EGOs don't automatically uptie with story progression, they can afford to go bigger with base ID uptie buffs. We're already getting a tiniest taste of it with the most recent update, where the voiceline for Ishmael's Zayin EGO changed after you complete Ch5. Hell, even in Ch4 the main story takeaway was that Yi-sang doesn't need to be his mirror self to have wings. What I think would be a really cool way to make base IDs shine without losing the "gacha needs to sell IDs" is to give base IDs the newest uptie level first. Or more specifically, the sinner whose chapter it is gets their base uptie first, same week as the chapter dungeon, or maybe even the week before. That way, the dungeon's "Compulsory character is max level and uptie" mechanic can actually be used to let that sinner in their base ID be the main character of the dungeon. Then, everyone else's upties trickle in, just in time for Railway to be where all of the newest weird mirror world IDs get their time in the spotlight as the new kid on the block.
Nothing better describes Don Quixote's personality than "Don Quixote". All that we're missing is a windmill abnormality. We'll have to wait until Canto 7 for that.
The Bug arms are great ideas. I think Yi Sang should be Sinking based. Let the tired Korean man weaponise his depression! Speedy Don is pretty accurate to the Gremlin. Sinclair should have maybe attack power up instead? Really fitting though, still.
So, ever since you announced that you would do a video on Base IDs, I've been waiting to tell you something I haven't revealed to anyone yet. So ESGOO (and anyone else looking through the comments), I hope you see this. For the past month at least (I forgot when exactly I started), I've been working on my own rework of all the base IDs and E.G.O, writing everything down in a document that I hope to finish one day. I'm not confident to show what I've designed so far, and many details are incomplete, but maybe one day I'll show people the final result? Anyway, my approach to fixing the base IDs is RADICALLY different than yours. Rather than taking the Base IDs as they already are, I'm instead writing out what would be a _complete overhaul_ of all the Base IDs and E.G.O. Just about everything, including base stats, the number of coins on each Skill, the effects of their Skills/Passives, and even stuff like damage types or Sin Affinities on Skills, is all subject to change (for the record, I'm changing tons of damage types/Sin Affinities in order to make the distribution of these more even, as currently it is NOT even). I decided to do a total overhaul because, when figuring out how to rework the Identities and E.G.O, I started with a few specific _goals_ I wanted to achieve with my hypothetical rework, and quickly realized that starting essentially from scratch, rather than tacking on additional effects to the IDs as they are now, would do a much better job at achieving those goals. If you're wondering what these "goals" are, I think I can sum them up as 4 principles: 1: The Base IDs/E.G.O should have a _large variety of effects and conditions_ in order to _teach new players how the game works._ 2: The Base IDs/E.G.O should give each Sinner a "playstyle" that feels somewhat different or unique compared to the other Sinners (without being too complex). 3: The Base IDs/E.G.O should provide a basic "toolbox" of effects _that all players should have some level of access to._ 4: The Base IDs/E.G.O should be _self-sufficient,_ not needing to rely on any other IDs/E.G.O to be usable (this is to make them good _generic_ teambuilding options). (These principles have had the side effect of the basic Sinners having no synergy with _each other,_ BUT I think that's thematically appropriate) I'm not gonna get into the fine details of what I've created thus far, as this comment is long enough already. But I might be able to answer some questions if people have any? Some of the design decisions I've made along the way might be a little... uh, questionable, but everything I've done thus far has had a purpose. Lately, I've even been diving into some EXTREMELY detailed stuff, such as _new animations_ for the Skills (currently, TONS of animations and poses are re-used between the LCB Sinner ID's Skills). I figured that, since all new players will be starting out with these IDs, it's best to actually put lots of _effort_ into them, which would make new players less likely to drop the game (first impressions are pretty important). I have to say, I never expected how much FUN reworking these IDs has been thus far. I know it sounds overly sentimental, but I've genuinely _fallen in love_ with my hypothetical new versions of the LCB Sinner Identities and Base E.G.O, and it's actually gotten to the point where I don't want to use the LCB Sinner IDs anymore, not necessarily because they're bad, but because I've realized just _how much better they could have been_ (and sometimes I accidentally start thinking/teambuilding with my versions of the IDs than the actual in-game versions). Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I've been going on this massive sidequest to create new versions of all the Base IDs/E.G.O, and while my rework isn't complete enough to be shown yet, I've already gotten quite far, and enjoyed doing it. Who knows, maybe I should try to apply to Project Moon as a programmer and see if I can't get these into the game eventually, LOL.
I think part of the fun, and also part of why I was hesitant to make this video, is that there are so many ways to go about buffing IDs, especially the Base IDs. I think almost every way of changing and adjusting is valid, so long as you stay within the bounds of balance, but even THAT is an opinion. I wish you luck on your Base ID adjustment journey.
@@therealESGOO Thank you! Oh, and in terms of balance, I'm trying to keep my reworked Base IDs _roughly on par with most 2-star Identities in power._ I think having the 2-star Identities serving as _alternative options_ to the regular Identities for teambuilding, rather than being strictly better than the 1-stars, strikes a nice balance between accessibility and having a reason to pull for new IDs (plus, it'll make the game easier to balance, as the power gap between day 1 players and new players will be just slightly smaller).
Man, I remember when Base Heathcliff carried me through Canto 3-4 because I literally was unlucky enough to never have any of his IDs until I finally pulled Shi and Rabbit Heathcliff on his focus extraction.
I feel like Sinclair's basic passive was meant to be a reference to Finn and Half-Baked Courage. But that's something that you probably aren't going to capitalise on either. I think all the base ID with counter skills should have gotten an extra effect on it. I don't know what, but it feels like it should have been upgraded along with whatever Uptie IV tweaks they got.
I think this is kinda what the sinner egos are for, allowing for a more direct version of the character to fight without being (quickly) phased out by meta
Man, i kinda remembered that canonically, sinners were weakened hella lot, in exchange of being kind of immortal. Hope we will get "pre-dante" ids some time...
funny seeing this, ive been running a all base id run of chapter four, and by god is it going... actually very good my units were desperately behind, i had to rush U4ing them and only a few were even level 30, only one was 35 (yi sang), but after a bit of power leveling and even with level 30 U4 units i was still able to beat and even EX most of the chp5 levels, im excited for the maintenance to be over to see how they handle the next batch also, in my opinion the only ones that need reworks are Gregor, rodion, meursault, and arguably sinclair they all have such cool weapons but they lack any sort of impact or omph to there strikes, cmon PM i know you know how to make a character FEEL strong, why did you have to give Gregor noodle arms that rival my own in real life? the ids roll fine but god they feel more like moody teenagers then real fighters. well, i guess that makes sense with sinclair...
Limbus Company has always felt like a single player story driven RPG that was reworked into a Gacha halfway through development. The limited cast, near non-existent multiplayer functionality, in-depth combat system more geared towards boss fights, the lackluster state in which resource farming features were implemented on-release, and overall the way in which this whole game could be packed as a non-gacha live service all point to it being thrown in at the finish line or at least very late in development. With the way identities work right now it the progression would make a lot more sense if IDs were treated more as equipment for the base ids instead of separate entities. I love this game, but I would be lying if I didn't say that it just feels like it has been struggling figuring out what it wants to be on the long term. It still remains as the single most F2P friendly gacha I've ever played so they must be doing something right.
As someone who has never used the gacha system and only used base sinners, I hope after watching this will catch the agony I've been through EDIT: Video accurately depicts the state of base ids, especially the lack of count raising effects except for bleed (Only uptie 4 actually makes Don and Rodion decent at this.), though something that didn't get raised up was speed for both Ishmael and Yisang being pretty high, which hurts Ishmael but helps Yisang. Ishmael's skill 1 raises tremor count, but shes so fast that the other ids that give tremor cant even go first before her, while Yisang is fastest, letting him use crows eye view perfectly.
I feel like having uncapped speed could become a problem for Don Quixote (don't ask me why, it's just a gut feeling), but I do like the idea of changing her passive. So, with the reworked speed, I think a condition in her passive that states something along the lines of "if clash won, increase the maximum speed cap by 3 and the minimum speed cap by 1" would be very interesting, if not perhaps too unique
Even as someone who has whaled for literally everything in the game, I still exclusively use the base IDs in story content. It's not as painful as trying them in challenge content like Railway, but they still provide a small bit of challenge.
*Long-winded explanation of why my perspective is so warped below LCB Gregor is already fun to play. He is easily categorized as a tank with the only healing ability outside of Don Quixote's base E.G.O, which hardly counts when E.G.O is so hard to use. LCB Yi Sang already has a solid kit. LCB Ishmael is a fine DPS, second only to LCB Heathcliff and possibly LCB Sinclair (I have never had her on the same team as him). I agree that Don Quixote needs some spice to justify putting her on a team- she is strong on her own, but does not synergize with other Sinners in any way. I love your team synergy idea and would personally greatly benefit from it. I hope so badly it is only a little further down the pipeline. *When I started playing Limbus approximately one month ago, I committed to never use extraction. I do not like that the game would randomly dictate my access to classes and abilities, so I am playing it as if the deterministic dispenser was the only way to obtain E.G.O and additional identities. The mandatory tutorial extraction does give Shi Ishmael, but she is kind of terrible in every way. Not to mention that the dispenser is hopelessly expensive, so I essentially only have the base roster. I am about to finish Canto IV.
personally for don, I’d just up the base speed and have the skill 1give more haste, as well as either extra damage or coin power or idk an extra coin or whatever if used after winning a clash. it fits with her intended play style, which is to win clashes with s2 to boost s1, then use that to boost s3 more bleed WOULD be nice, and also works for lore reasons, but it isn’t really necessary. also those lore reasons directly contradict why her kit is the way it is but that’s a spoiler
I think it’d be really cool if the base IDs grew stronger the more canto’s you completed. Weather you buff them collectively, or buff a specific ID based on their Canto, I dunno, but I think it’d be a cool indicator, gameplay and story-wise, of their growth
the problem with your suggestion for meursault's block is that it turns it into a more complex counter otherwise, yeah it'd be really cool if we got these changes (they might save the base ids)
I'm not saying it was a reasonable aim in the first place, but I think Base Quixote had the problem of it being tied into her EGO. Remember when the passive used to give her a haste boost? Yeah, I think that's why it feels that all her haste requirements before Cinq feel unfair. I think what she actually needs is a new ZAYIN EGO with a haste giving passive again. The minor problem is that if it's another Resonance passive, then she's screwed, because lust is such an important part of her haste IDs, and she already has her base. She needs an EGO that can give her haste on demand as a passive, but somehow working for three different kits. Best I can come up with is "On clash win, gain haste by the half of the highest resonance (once per turn). If it is (either absolute resonance, a specific resonance type, or maybe this skill is part of the passive), then give a bonus effect (maybe it'll be the full resonance instead of half, or it'll let it be more times per turn). Or heck, maybe the passive could be as simple as "when using a defensive skill, gain haste next turn."
Bit of a spoiler for canto 5 part 2 but When you fight middle big brother it’s kinda cool to see Ishmael actually getting beat out of her Id she using. Shows how id works in canon.
I guess its better just to wait and see plot twist. Bcause same could be said about Ruina nuggets and librarians. They still a normal citizens that on their paths, and we will se how they will blossom later, or maybe even next week on last Ish's story part I still think that limbus only "ended" with his tutorial part to involve newcomers to PM story, like everything before urban nightmare starting from victory on Queen of Hatred
Yay for Base ID love. I must say, going through Canto 5 with them, doing the Story with them is easily the most fun way to play for me. I do wish Uptie 4 gave them more unique sets, but I will still do all the Story with them, no matter what.
i think lore wise, PM meant for the base IDs to suck, because the story is about a ragtag team of strangers who are this close to bashing each other's brains out and are only there simply because they needed 12 people who would take any order (hence the constant mention of "the contract"). As for why they just needed 12 placeholders, was to use their two main aces that being Dante with his revive and the different Identities of the sinners in alternate timeline where they aren't suck and can actually fight. Then you don't have to worry about the sinners being weak, just have to pull out an alternate version of them that aren't suck. as for why they could be buffed lore wise, the company don't have any incentives, the chapters that relates to the sinners also don't make them stronger physically, only mentally and help them be more social and friendly with their co-workers.
The only issue i see is that ryoshu is canonically a terrifyingly powerful & dangerous combatant who was actively weakened by Dante's Contract. That, and she' believed to have personally pissed off every single part of The Hand, and LIVED. Which is a rather scary & impressive implication.
Looking at the rodion section, I think you gotten that line about sp wrong, in my interpretation, it’s more of a failsafe, if rodions sp ever reaches below 0, that line would kick in to give her a little boost to hopefully help her raise her sp back. But just my opinion
Cool idea. But I think it would be also interesting if after some chapter, where certain character get a massive development, they also got new base ID's. Like new 3 star ID or entire new rarity. With upgraded gear, new moves, and new sprites for campaign. Sounds to much, but knowing that we will spend a lot of tome with those base sinners I hope pm find time and money to make it happened. Which symbolize their grows and make them less dependent on different versions of themselves.
I'd second that. Maybe we can get to something that akin to the "witcher" rarity in Witcher 3 (or the "Iconic" in CB 2077), a "rarity" that stands out from the others by tying itself solely to progression/tinkering/improments, more or less a "non-rarity rarity". A rarity in which you do not roll dice to get better replacements, but slowly and steadily improve by dumping resources into them.
Honestly, I'd love to see these ideas, maybe with the uptie 5's for these ids being ONLY once you beat their canto?, maybe a seperate thing from an uptie but a canto buff? Shrug, though presuming its like that you could buff em to be around 00 level stat wise but with less unique mechanics that'd make most 00s better in proper team building
Honestly i love the idea like having a character with such a big range on speed, reminds of some ruina card that can be like 10-30 and its so funny. Let the girl get her zoomies
If u know dokkan battle, i would made the same, doing reworks (ezas) where u need to pass somewaht of a hard battles to get special medals to powerup old units, so they dont go useless in a matter of a year or less. Wuld be very interested but hard to achieve cuz u need to practically do a new set of passives for an old skill set of a unit.
At 27:44 the MD4H I was doing started playing Between Two Worlds and I thought that was this video's BGM and it was supposed to be a very heartfelt moment which confused me
Honestly, I'm sad with the base characters being abandoned. Like I WANT to raise them, but I can't due limited resources. At least in Genshin, you can still use starter characters during exploration. Some account even manage to make them play in the abbys. I still use Kaeya until now. 😭 Maybe they can make base id stronger in future by making "only base id you can raise into more than tier 5"? I'm drinking copium here.
Maybe the base IDs could be buffed in their particular encounters. Sinclaire has a different set of moves while fighting The One Who Grips - or something like that.
I think they could give out some scale up, as they get the experience even if through alternative ID's I'm sure some of it seeps through. I don't know...
I was thinking over the other day about how might the single-coin IDs like base Ishmael and Don be made more effective, but without just adding more coins, and also making it interesting lorewise, and the idea I came up with was a special effect that could be added. Manipulated Wish. If this skill were to lose in a clash, it doesn't, up to the number of Manipulated Wishes on the skill. So if a skill has 2 Manipulated Wishes, it can "lose" a clash without actually losing one of the coins to clash with a max of 2 times. Whether it should be a "negated" clash, like the failed clash is just treated as if it didn't happen and everyone reflips coins, or if it's just a reroll, that the enemy coins are the same and you reflip your coins once more, or even if it's coin-specific, that each wish can reflip only one coin making it less effective on multi-coin skills, you could adjust how it works to balance it quite a bit. It's partially inspired by the Purple Tear's Manipulator of Odds passive from LoR, if a die rolls the minimum value it gets rerolled for free, but also by that "Wish" technology mentioned in Canto 2. In the lore, the Sinners would start incorporating some of the stolen J Corp tech allowing them to make a combat encounter slightly more in their favor, maybe an enemy that would have landed a hit "just so happens" to trip before they can land the hit, or a Sinner's intuition flairs up at the right moment to have them notice a hidden enemy they almost overlooked, translating into gameplay as a lost clash potentially being saved. Depending on how it's made to work mechanically, if the failed clash actually counts or not, you could even start to incorporate more "on clash lose" effects into those kits. Like, if the clash fails and a Wish is used up, it still counts as a lost clash triggering that effect, but you can still clash again and potentially win.
So, a rework idea i thought of Slay(rodion s3) [After attack]: if 2 coins on this skill rolls tails, trigger bleed damage(example: if an enemy has 5 potency and 3 bleed count, if the condition is fulfilled, they would take 5 damage and lose 1 count) if all coins landed heads, deal 10% of total damage dealt as wrath damage, then lose 10-15(numbers are in testing, this is a (game) theory after all) sp. This would not only 1: fix (one of the only) issues with bleed, which is that it relies on clashing for damage, making it (arguably) worthless against staggered targets, but with a condition that is both balanced, unique, and fitting for the character.
It would be cool if after you complete the chapter related to the character the base ID gets an upgrade where You can custom it. Add moves and pasives from other ID's You have. Nerfed versions so it won't be overpowered but then you could do a lot more Unique builds.
We saw gregors arm change before. when gregor was on the train post Gcorp war he had a normal arm. but after hearing the other passengers talk shit about G corp and its soldiery it transformed and went for the throat on its own. his arm has almost limitless morphic potental but it remains a bug because of gregors self perception and inherent hopelessness and self loathing.
basically every gacha games has this problem, the characters in your party are not the same as the ones in the story (unless you are weird and do lore accurate playthroughs). i think it is cool that you came up with an "excuse" for making them viable though
![What Makes a Tank? [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KaO0BLntGTI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Resonance Phenomenon (And Captain Ishmael) [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RCnlPYcWtC4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Strange Case of the Launch IDs [Limbus Company]](/img/1.gif)
The true tragedy of base IDs is that Heathcliff never gets a chance to use his funny baseball bat. he even got it custom-made with his own decal and all.
What if you wanted to go to heaven, but God said: Quick Suppression
I mean they all have custom engravings, Heathcliff's is just the most notable, especially if you speak only English lol
Ironically, my base heathcliff has the highest level out of all of his IDs.
@@emmittcarpenter145220 power skill3 roll is funny
Pretty sure this system is also used in lob corp.. not sure about LoR tho.
Personally my guess is that we'll get not base IDs but "original" IDs with the outfits you see in the mugshots at some point in the story. Those would also fulfill the "canonical ID" niche that the base IDs currently kinda suck at.
Edit: also, considering that both prior games had "this specific character goes through some shit and gets powered up," I'd expect *something* in this vein in the future.
That would be cool
But at the same time personally I'd like for the base IDs to actually get better over time as they're getting better on the story
Someone should honestly pitch this to PM. This would be perfect.
I expected a power up for Crow's Eye View after canto 4 with Yi Sang's wings to happen, but unless they add that now which feels pretty weird I'm not sure if they will do a bade ID thing either. Maybe with uptie 5?
Imagine uptie *REDACTED* actually changes the base IDs kit and appearance a good bit.
I hope so much that we get something like limbus company shipuden after everyone has gotten their own arc and they power up and we go for new, even grander quest but this time as actual team not a bunch of criminals who just stick together because of personal gains TT
As the strongest Curse, ESgoat, fought the fraud, the King of ID mechanics, he began to open his domain. Charge shrunk back in fear, then ESgoat said: “Stand proud Charge, you are strong”.
Stand proud Charge, you are strong.
nah, I'd be used by certain skills for additional effects.
Esgoat: I'm you, I wanted to reject Charge. Convince myself you were a boring mechanic.
Cut to reality when esgoat got bisected in half because the charge says: i use rip space and Dimensional Demonic Edge Dimension Rift to target the space he is currently in therefore bypassing his hate on charge.
Charge: Well done Esgoat, I'll never forget about you as long as im the META 😂😂
@@fqck1999WAIT THATS WHAT DDEDR STANDS FOR?? WHERE DO I FIND THE RYOSHU TRANSLATOR
I like the idea of base Meursault completely powercreeping Nsault by giving him a better defensive counter
"I was once racist, but not anymore" fits his backstory
@@megatennepster3833he was told to stop, so he did
All we gotta do to buff the sinners is draw a sheep, unfortunately Dante lacks eye to hand coordination so he sucks at drawing a sheep
And he also completely forgot to draw said sheep 🤦♂
Makes sense, he doesn't have eyes.
Damian demands his fursona.
I like the idea of Faust getting better evade every doge. I gives the idea that she's reading the opponents movement
If Faust knows all outcomes, why doesn’t she simply avoid all damage? Is she stupid?
@@therealESGOO Faust merely let herself get hit, for the sake of the gameplay. It's part of Faust's job at limbus company.
@@therealESGOO oh no not the aslume
@@therealESGOOshe knows the outcome, so it's possible she knows she can't avoid that attack.
It would be fun to have something like 1+99 unaffected by sanity evade. Though it would also be horrible gameplay-wise for something like that to exist (memories of BoD still haunt me). Coming from LoR, I love that sanity exists.
if Yi Sangs wings are broken, why doesn't he fix them? Is he stupid?
Man i want an ID that is literally just "Blocked, Blocked, Blocked, your all blocked". Give us that 000 -5 offense level Mersault who is just an insane damage reflect tank.
None of you are free of Blockma.
Who's blockma?
Blockma balls
@@GA7273 "Blockma" is a meme reference to Project moons previous game, Libary of ruina. Where a charecter called "Hokma" and his "floor" could get a special power to deal damage when blocking. And you could straight up murder people by essentially making them hit themselves. It was absoulute hilarious.
@@blazichaos7181 Bloody Lean Wings.
The way Limbus works is most similar to idol games like Bang Dream, Project Sekai, etc, or some otome games like twisted wonderland or promise of wizard. The 'small cast, pull multiple versions of them' thing.
See I would literally have no clue lmao, thank you for letting me that there are similar games to Limbus
But with Limbus their personalities are slightly altered when you use different ID's meaning you're never actually using the REAL them unlike those other gacha games where they just change outfits etc.
holy shit, promise of wizard mention on a limbus video?? LET'S GOOO!
Weird having a project sekai and twisted wonderland mention on a limbus video but i am not complaining
I know this is a small detail but Twisted Wonderland isn't an otome game lmao, it's just a visual novel that happens to have a player character. But yeah, Limbus Company is probably aiming for a similar like Otome Game "Card"s, just in a slightly different way.
I think faust' paralyze not being applied on next turn despite her staggeringly low speed is biggest crime among base ids :(
Oh hi jannet
@@TrainsGD *peep*
Ishmael with her snagharpoon:
This is why i dont see Faust main attack as Debuff, but hey she becomes a reliable source of Offense Down
For healthcliff and ishmael
I find it funny if you added a special effect called "annoyed" to both of them when they both standing next to each other on the dashboard
Which increase damage deal by 10% and 1 more clash power
Like they try to be better than other in combat
Call it Competitive instead
@@localmemer708 that would be incorrect
Since ishmael is smart,she wouldn't pick a fight with healthcliff and get into trouble
She would get annoyed however
Canto 6 spoilers?
@@kaytee268dont you mean canto 5?
@@angeldog2443 erm…
I love the idea behind the Meursault rework because it also fits thematically very well imo. The sense I got from the book is that Meursault is someone who goes through life mostly just following the flow of things and reacting rather than making and choosing actions for himself. Altering his kit so that although his active skills are still weak but his defensive skill, which is something inherently reactive to other people's actions, being one of his best options fits so well
I am wishing for an Sinclair ID with both negative and positive coins because of his base EGO passive. I think it is a really cool mechanic
Meursault and Don Quixote, i feel like they would feel great as one of those duos, they are weirdly simmilar (specially when don drops her façade in canto 2, she sounds very...meur-like) and i feel like the faster speedster paired out with the slowest tank is a pretty fun synergy to have.
Note how the quirk list at the beginning of the video just notes their names only for the two of them, too.
When the game first released, Base Faust, Heath, and Hong Lu carried me through Chapter 3. Nowadays, I never use the Base IDs.
Tried using base IDs only on canto 5 holy moly it was working until I got bashed into nothing by some goons hope they get some adequate buffs
I sometimes use base Ryoshu; she can annoy enemies.
@@sirpotato8733 True kings beat even that fight. I only needed 5 tries.
In Ch 3, base heath got me through the normal and Guido fights. I used base sinclair to bury his halberd into Kromer's torso like he should
I still use Base Hong Lu at times as an honorary 4th member of Sinking gang
Arknights made a character for everyone
Nikke made a character for each BMI index
And limbus made a character for each mental illness with multiple flavors.
to be fair so did project sekai
Every time I see base id I just think of Outis saying “excellent choice executive manager” since we’re just making choice on what identity to use
I do kind of want to draw attention to base Ishmael's skill 3, because it has something that made it nice for tremor teams right at the start of the game (and no, not that it has none of those rotten "reduce tremor count after bursting tremor" effects).
She did not care whether she showed up early or late. If she used her Skill 3 early, then everybody would pile in on that blunt fragility for bonus damage. If she used it late, then it could actually burst a tremor. I feel like there's a few too many skills that are designed for a sinner to be in a specific order, and you can't easily control haste on key sinners that don't already have "be at X or faster to get Y bonus".
I feel like more skill 3 that rely on being early or late in a turn should get bonus effects so they can still do nice things if they have to be used at the opposite end of attack order.
I think the default ids should be improved via Uptiers or another potential ability unlocks. Further more, we saw the capability of the sinners during later chapters where they easily able to subdue enemies through cutscenes whereas before they struggles somewhat.
It was pretty cathartic to witness Ishmael mow down the twinhooks with what was canonically just her LCB ID with the addition of just her whetted as fuck harpoon.
>"Synergy" mechanic
Come on, "Sinnergy" was right there on the table!
Also, I do have to mention how many games do go out of their way to make their starters viable, just look at FGO's Mash or any Pokemon game, so just having a gacha system does not exactly mean your starters have to be bad. Something very niche, but still viable sounds like the best way to handle them, so I do agree with the general premise of the video. Good job!
I've actually been really interested in the base IDs and have been looking into a challenge run with them, so seeing someone remember them try to fix them is really interesting. One thing, at 11:55 you mention 2 Fragile same turn being a useful utility, and I agree with that, however, from what I can remember through some testing, Yi Sang's skill 3 currently inflicts the Fragile next turn despite the description, at least from what I can tell. I'd double check but as I'm writing this the game's during maintenance. If I'm wrong, sorry, but if I'm right, it's still really cool to see someone give the base IDs attention at all, and I cannot blame you in the least for not noticing such a minor thing.
To contribute to the actual discussion, one possibility for base ID buffs I like is a kind of "class" system. Given we seem to now be headed to 6-sinner fights being the standard, if the 12 sinners were split across 6 "roles," 2 a piece, there could be some interesting team-building choices. Like Meursault and Gregor, both tanks, but Meursault works as a tank through high HP, Protection, and Aggro (He deserves it), while Gregor works as a tank through self-healing, comparatively solid speed allowing for interception, and actual clashing. Yi Sang and Ishmael could both serve as high-speed support/debuffers, with Yi Sang being more hard support with Sinking, Fragile, and Attack Power Down from Crow's Eye View, but mediocre clashing, while Ishmael is more hybrid, having solid clashing numbers but below average damage, and inflicting Tremor and Blunt Fragility. Some other possibilities include Don and Sinclair both as clash-focused damagers, Rodya and Faust being unopposed status/debuff inflictors, and so on. There obviously isn't a lot of basis for some of the better base IDs to put them in niches, but I like the idea of the base roster introducing several roles IDs can serve while also showing their potential variants.
I just got into this game and took to Gregor really fast given the silver-tongue and laid back employee vibe, him being part bug _on top of_ me _liking_ bugs is just icing on the cake. So to see him with my favorite Pokemon type on his description [BUG], I got a little smile.
one thing i think would be cool to justify the buff is that, when you use a mirror id, you use an id who completed their story, their development, they are at their peak, but the base havent completed their story and they are still developing as a character
Fucking THANK you. I don't have a damn clue if you'll see this, it's a three month old video and we all have things to do, but genuinely thank you for making content like this. I'm very new to Limbus, but I've played a lot of other gachas or just RPG element heavy games, and I've always kind of been... that guy. 9 times out of 10 I'm like 1 of 3 people who cares about the wider balance of these games, so it is genuinely CATHARTIC to see somebody else care whatsoever.
Like, for example, I'm pretty deep in the Punishing Gray Raven trenches . A lot of my favorite units happen to be legacy picks - and let me tell you that can be an awful experience. PGR's design philosophy splits its unit releases into "generations"; so you'll have a gen 1 attacker unit and then a gen 2 attacker. Gen 2 attackers are literally, on a system-mechanics level, designed to beat out the gen 1 units entirely and NOBODY CARES. NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT THIS, EVER, IT'S JUST A NORMAL THING AND IT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL. Go talk to people who play PGR and you'll either get a shrug or a "why bother?" I'm not kidding, the fundamental concept of people wanting to use alternative options not for statistical benefit but for fun factor does not exist within the confines of that game, it literally isn't there and it's insane to me that that's... just how things are. PGR has 3 really prominent guidemakers, and none of them bother. Straight up, the lack of care for this one facet of the game is at an almost comedic level.
It goes further too, because I've brought this up with other people online and response is generally... not positive. The main thing I hear hovers along the lines of "well if you don't want to play meta, don't compete", and that's obnoxious for a lot of reasons. I want to be able to enjoy the game at a high knowledge and execution level even if I'm not using cutting edge strategies. I always make it clear that I don't actually care about topping leaderboards or anything. More than anything I want to take units I like, flawed or not, to their highest potential points; and hey, in that sense? Yeah, fair enough, I'm not gunning for the top and that's okay. The problem is that philosophy then becomes a rediculously broad game of excluded middle and a very thinly veiled way to say "this does not impact me because I enjoy the current gen units, please stop pointing out that this piece of media I'm enjoying has a problem." Kuro Games, the developers behind PGR, are hardly amoral - but they do listen to the majority of their fanbase that simply... doesn't care. An issue like that will literally never change because nobody even wants to acknowledge it.
I say all of this to say thank you for having an interest in these things. I don't use this story as a means to garner sympathy nor build some kind of mythologized echochamber about the wisdom of the LC community. Despite their flaws, PGR and the many other games I play are things I enjoy at the end of the day, and I'm generally a pretty happy person even if I have a critical streak with the things I love. No, i do not want your sympathy - I want you to keep doing what you're doing, because speaking from experience this kind of shit is a genuine service. Obviously don't let that go to your head, but the willingness to shine light on a problem as just a problem (not the machinations of our benevolant all knowing God emperors who can do no wrong OR a corporate scheme to cheat us out of artificially inflated numbers) is such a breath of fresh air. The fact that you don't swing to the other end of the spectrum and try to kick PM in the balls for every mistake they make is really good too, please be curteous to the people whom you're trying to influence.
I started thinking about all this when I watched your charge video. "This is meta, but it's also quite boring" is something most people not only don't say in most of the circles I'm in but certainly don't use as a reason to change the meta thing, when that's like literally the best form of community engagement you could ask for when it comes to any piece of media ever. You're not doing God's work, but you're helping a LOT of fucking people by giving a platform to these ideas, let me tell you. If there's anything I pray you take away from this borderline corroded tirade of mine, I'd prefer it to be two things. One: There are absolutely other people who care, you probably know that due to... having an audiance in the first place, but I really do want to reaffirm that sentiment. Two: this kind of content is so, so insanely worth it. It's a great thing to like a piece of media despite it's flaws, and ultimately if the fanbase can muster coherent, constructive feedback to the developers like this it is in their buisness interest to adhere to it. I really doubt PM has their eyes on your videos directly, but the sentiment you're putting out there has ripples; so keep that up. The best Limbus Company will be one that confronts its shortcomings irrespective of how many might sing its praises, and I guess it's just cool to finally be interested in a game that feels like it even has that oppertunity in the first place.
Apologies for the frankly asanine length of this all, I think about this a lot. If you don't ever see this, that's okay. If you see it and think I'm a little too schizophrenic for my own good, that's also fine. I just wanted to say I appriciate the nuance that goes into this stuff and that you're doing something good for the community at large. Again, don't let it go to your head (I mean that in the not mean way I promise LOL), but you deserve to know that the positive impacts of this kind of stuff are real and tangible.
As much as I like some of the ideas, I think the way they'll actually "buff" the base sinners is by releasing a new version of them down the road that's not gonna be a mirror version but rather an evolution of the base sinners, like "E.G.O. Awakened Yi-Sang", "Bearer of The Sign Sinclair" or "Metamorphed Gregor" kind of deal.
I think what will happen instead, is that later on in the story (perhaps after each Sinner's final Canto) they'd get new 0 IDs with new abilities they get after whatever emotional epiphany they experience happens. I think that's also what Aleph EGOs will be since every Sinner (with the exception of Mersault who will likely get an EGO completely unrelated to Chains of Others' abilities since by god would it be sad if by the end of Limbus Company his EGO is still just the manifestation of his acceptance of having his life controlled by others) has a half-baked EGO that's likely only a small taste of what they'll be able to do once they fully accept who they are.
I feel like Chains of Others could be kept by just slightly tweaking the name, Chaining Others.
Mersault is no longer the bound he is the binder, he will push, pull and yank others to do as HE wants for once.
@@imaplaygames633 oh! Thats a cool idea!
It makes 100x more sense if each sinners base ego got buffed after completing their canto but for some reason that’s not a thing despite the egos dialogue changes
I play with base IDs. Currently at early Canto 4.
Even though I do have access to better ID's.
I just love leveraging my Base ID's to progress through tough challenges.
Unrelated: According to Dante's Notes, the Mirror Identity function (Invented by Yi Sang, using his mirror, shown from Canto IV), veils the Sinner and essentially transforms them into their Identity for the battle.
Shown in Canto V, Sinners can be knocked out of their identity (May be a cutscene only), as Ishmael was visibility knocked out of her selected Identity by the Big Brother in his fight.
At the very least, I expected their support passive to be improved, but we didn't even get that for Uptie 4. The only way I'd see them making changes these extreme if there was some way to unlock these changes from the Gacha. Like some kind of promotion item is added to the Sinner specific gachas that pop up that allow you to upgrade the LCB Sinner ID. Two reasons I'd think this would be the case is that 1, they probably would want to monetize this kind of effort. Secondly, at some point, the buffs on the LCB Sinners would just make them 00 IDs. At which point, why not make a new 00 ID instead of trying to straddle the line of balance with the 0 IDs?
Sinner Promotion is really the only way I could see this being a thing. It makes sense naturally since we kind of expect our goons to be stronger after going through hell and back. It also makes sense for balance since a promotion would give an excuse for why a 0 ID would be as strong as a 00 ID if the LCB Sinner was "promoted" to a 00 ID.
Meursault was told to get a better defense, so he becomes Blockma.
I started playing LoR recently... and I'm kinda afraid of the word Blockma
Anyway, good f***ing video. Was giggling like an idiot half the time watching it. Based and optimistic, as always. Which is why I like your videos.
And the work with sprites and animations, man, the next step is a f***ing fan 2D animations, like WTF
except for 1 thing I don't like
every time you videos end like 0.5 second sooner than they should and it cuts out the end of your phrase
It gives me physical pain alike that Dante feel when rewinding the clock
Hate to break the illusion, but the point IS that I get cut off by the video actually ending. Thank you for your kind words.
@@therealESGOONOOOOOOOOO
This video is very good. I approve.
One change i would make to all of Ryosho's ids is to make her speed range have very low base speed but very high max speed, i would make her base id speed be a 1-9, it would make sense for her since she has Splatter, a skill that wants to go last but she also is a competent sinner, so her max speed would make sence being very high.
Ryosho is often a very unpredictable sinner in the story. Sometimes, she even gets all the sinners in trouble because of her uncontrollable nature, so would be fitting for her to have a really low base speed.
Great video Esgoop, loved your ideas, some of them for purely selfish reasons, I play story chapters with only the base ids, so you can imagine anything that would make that more fun is great for me. I specially liked your buffs for Don and Meursault, but I seriously love the concept of ids having synergies between each other. I think making each id give a buff to someone and be buffed by someone else would be the ideal implementation, this would bring some strategic decision making into running all base ids, as it currently stands, you choose them based on damage types and resistances and ignore stuff like bleed or tremor. Let's use Sinclair as an example, he could buff Ryoshu, giving her a modest buff, based around his kit and ego, like more damage on mismatched coins, at the same time, he's buffed by Rodya, giving him Slay's +1 skill power when below 0 sp. By making each sinner give and receive buffs, we can get another layer of complexity for team building with base ids, so not only do we need to consider damage types and sin affinities, but also passives and this new "synergy" buffs, fundamentally making base Faust more interesting than her EGO spam and horrible clashing.
Or we could get charge at uptie VIII, that would be cool I guess
I have a really wierd base hong lu rework idea, since PM choose to name hong lu from the book name 紅樓夢, instant of any character form the book, I'm going to make the base id reflect that, and since the book is about how a family strive and crumble down, I'm making this id a reverse change id.
Passive(2 sloth owned): heal 6 sp, if sp below 0, gain 6 sinking instead.
Evade: [On Evade] heal 6 sp
Skill one:
[On clash win] gain 2 "prosperity"
Skill two:
If "prosperity" is above 5, coin power +1
I:[On hit] gain 1 "prosperity"
II:[Head hit] gain 2 "prosperity"
Skill three:[Combat start] consume all "prosperity", gain fragile this turn and next turn per stacks of "prosperity", if "prosperity" is above 10, also gain sinking per stacks of "prosperity" and gain two sinking count. This effect will also trigger when this skill get discord by EGO/Evade.
Prosperity: when Combat start, gain one attack level up per stacks of prosperity, if prosperity is above 10, also gain 2 attack dmg up.
I really want PM to design base ids to reflect their lore, also I want to see a id that discourage player to use Skill three.
The Meursault buff is the second coming of Blockma.
The day we see Meursault get a passive that lets him literally throw Base Don at the enemy (to bypass his slow speed and sacrifice his turn for some kind of buff and so Don can get at the enemy faster) will be a fantastic day in the sun.
I think all of your changes are really what I want out of the base IDs. Not big numbers, but really niche and gimmicky fun things. Alternately they could also each be a starter or tutorial character for each gimmick like bleed on Rodya and poise on Ryoshu (idk who burn would be maybe heathcliff or Ishmael)
Another great video ESGOO well done, well done. I loved the ideas here especially for Don as it makes her a very fun ID which I feel is necessary for every Don ID. Also base Meursault, it would be a blessing to have an ID with thorns. Although I think that the reflect damage should be Sloth as it’s the defense skill sin affinity. However I do see how pride makes sense that’s my only disagreement with the IDs. Great video nonetheless keep it up!
Except for you butchered the pronunciation of Ennui. It’s pronounced like “In, you, eye.”
Now, with the release of Yi Sang Fell Bullet, Sinclair's Passive has finally had a use
I wish they had made the base units have no status effect tie-ins. It would've been so fucking funny to have the base IDs to just be raw numbers, I.E. Outis and Sinclair.
He predicted the Don Quixote Manager and The Full Stop Office Hong Lu and Heathcliff Mechanic at the end.
I'd love to imagine a game where your main casts start of decent or weak, then progressively getting stronger as the characters become more developed either through their level or through skills and abilities.
While it's unlikely for base IDs to get progressive fixed level, I'd like to see their Egos and/or their skills and passives become stronger.
For example, buff 7 sinners' base IDs (Gregor, Rodion, Sinclair, Yi Sang, Ishmael, Heatcliff and Don Quixote) since they've been through their problems and showing signs of growth.
As you said, it does feel like now that the base IDs and EGOs don't automatically uptie with story progression, they can afford to go bigger with base ID uptie buffs.
We're already getting a tiniest taste of it with the most recent update, where the voiceline for Ishmael's Zayin EGO changed after you complete Ch5. Hell, even in Ch4 the main story takeaway was that Yi-sang doesn't need to be his mirror self to have wings.
What I think would be a really cool way to make base IDs shine without losing the "gacha needs to sell IDs" is to give base IDs the newest uptie level first. Or more specifically, the sinner whose chapter it is gets their base uptie first, same week as the chapter dungeon, or maybe even the week before. That way, the dungeon's "Compulsory character is max level and uptie" mechanic can actually be used to let that sinner in their base ID be the main character of the dungeon.
Then, everyone else's upties trickle in, just in time for Railway to be where all of the newest weird mirror world IDs get their time in the spotlight as the new kid on the block.
Alright alright, hear me out, if Limbus somehow ever does a collab with DMC, we need Hong Lu as Dante, Outis as Vergil, and Sinclair as Nero.
Nothing better describes Don Quixote's personality than "Don Quixote". All that we're missing is a windmill abnormality. We'll have to wait until Canto 7 for that.
Update: We did not get a windmill abnormally
@@LTDLetsPlays We did, in a way, fought a windmill though.
But no abnormality tho
The Bug arms are great ideas.
I think Yi Sang should be Sinking based. Let the tired Korean man weaponise his depression!
Speedy Don is pretty accurate to the Gremlin.
Sinclair should have maybe attack power up instead? Really fitting though, still.
Funny how ESGOO's "Marked" mechanic for Outis is what basically became Prey Mark and given ""small"" buffs
Babe, wake up. Esgoo posted a new banger vid
So, ever since you announced that you would do a video on Base IDs, I've been waiting to tell you something I haven't revealed to anyone yet. So ESGOO (and anyone else looking through the comments), I hope you see this. For the past month at least (I forgot when exactly I started), I've been working on my own rework of all the base IDs and E.G.O, writing everything down in a document that I hope to finish one day. I'm not confident to show what I've designed so far, and many details are incomplete, but maybe one day I'll show people the final result?
Anyway, my approach to fixing the base IDs is RADICALLY different than yours. Rather than taking the Base IDs as they already are, I'm instead writing out what would be a _complete overhaul_ of all the Base IDs and E.G.O. Just about everything, including base stats, the number of coins on each Skill, the effects of their Skills/Passives, and even stuff like damage types or Sin Affinities on Skills, is all subject to change (for the record, I'm changing tons of damage types/Sin Affinities in order to make the distribution of these more even, as currently it is NOT even).
I decided to do a total overhaul because, when figuring out how to rework the Identities and E.G.O, I started with a few specific _goals_ I wanted to achieve with my hypothetical rework, and quickly realized that starting essentially from scratch, rather than tacking on additional effects to the IDs as they are now, would do a much better job at achieving those goals.
If you're wondering what these "goals" are, I think I can sum them up as 4 principles:
1: The Base IDs/E.G.O should have a _large variety of effects and conditions_ in order to _teach new players how the game works._
2: The Base IDs/E.G.O should give each Sinner a "playstyle" that feels somewhat different or unique compared to the other Sinners (without being too complex).
3: The Base IDs/E.G.O should provide a basic "toolbox" of effects _that all players should have some level of access to._
4: The Base IDs/E.G.O should be _self-sufficient,_ not needing to rely on any other IDs/E.G.O to be usable (this is to make them good _generic_ teambuilding options).
(These principles have had the side effect of the basic Sinners having no synergy with _each other,_ BUT I think that's thematically appropriate)
I'm not gonna get into the fine details of what I've created thus far, as this comment is long enough already. But I might be able to answer some questions if people have any?
Some of the design decisions I've made along the way might be a little... uh, questionable, but everything I've done thus far has had a purpose. Lately, I've even been diving into some EXTREMELY detailed stuff, such as _new animations_ for the Skills (currently, TONS of animations and poses are re-used between the LCB Sinner ID's Skills). I figured that, since all new players will be starting out with these IDs, it's best to actually put lots of _effort_ into them, which would make new players less likely to drop the game (first impressions are pretty important).
I have to say, I never expected how much FUN reworking these IDs has been thus far. I know it sounds overly sentimental, but I've genuinely _fallen in love_ with my hypothetical new versions of the LCB Sinner Identities and Base E.G.O, and it's actually gotten to the point where I don't want to use the LCB Sinner IDs anymore, not necessarily because they're bad, but because I've realized just _how much better they could have been_ (and sometimes I accidentally start thinking/teambuilding with my versions of the IDs than the actual in-game versions).
Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I've been going on this massive sidequest to create new versions of all the Base IDs/E.G.O, and while my rework isn't complete enough to be shown yet, I've already gotten quite far, and enjoyed doing it. Who knows, maybe I should try to apply to Project Moon as a programmer and see if I can't get these into the game eventually, LOL.
I think part of the fun, and also part of why I was hesitant to make this video, is that there are so many ways to go about buffing IDs, especially the Base IDs. I think almost every way of changing and adjusting is valid, so long as you stay within the bounds of balance, but even THAT is an opinion. I wish you luck on your Base ID adjustment journey.
I find funny that the community divine into 2 sides, the scientists and the cavemans
@@therealESGOO Thank you! Oh, and in terms of balance, I'm trying to keep my reworked Base IDs _roughly on par with most 2-star Identities in power._ I think having the 2-star Identities serving as _alternative options_ to the regular Identities for teambuilding, rather than being strictly better than the 1-stars, strikes a nice balance between accessibility and having a reason to pull for new IDs (plus, it'll make the game easier to balance, as the power gap between day 1 players and new players will be just slightly smaller).
@@Flygoniaks this sounds cool and fitting. Maybe make a vid or something when you're ready?
Do you have a sort of Google Doc for this? I'd like to see what you've made if able
Man, I remember when Base Heathcliff carried me through Canto 3-4 because I literally was unlucky enough to never have any of his IDs until I finally pulled Shi and Rabbit Heathcliff on his focus extraction.
I feel like Sinclair's basic passive was meant to be a reference to Finn and Half-Baked Courage. But that's something that you probably aren't going to capitalise on either.
I think all the base ID with counter skills should have gotten an extra effect on it. I don't know what, but it feels like it should have been upgraded along with whatever Uptie IV tweaks they got.
I think this is kinda what the sinner egos are for, allowing for a more direct version of the character to fight without being (quickly) phased out by meta
Man, i kinda remembered that canonically, sinners were weakened hella lot, in exchange of being kind of immortal.
Hope we will get "pre-dante" ids some time...
funny seeing this, ive been running a all base id run of chapter four, and by god is it going... actually very good
my units were desperately behind, i had to rush U4ing them and only a few were even level 30, only one was 35 (yi sang), but after a bit of power leveling and even with level 30 U4 units i was still able to beat and even EX most of the chp5 levels, im excited for the maintenance to be over to see how they handle the next batch
also, in my opinion the only ones that need reworks are Gregor, rodion, meursault, and arguably sinclair
they all have such cool weapons but they lack any sort of impact or omph to there strikes, cmon PM i know you know how to make a character FEEL strong, why did you have to give Gregor noodle arms that rival my own in real life? the ids roll fine but god they feel more like moody teenagers then real fighters.
well, i guess that makes sense with sinclair...
Funnily enough, base sinclair almost always dealt the most damage from my start team.
Yeah he beats outis in dice count and even gets bonus damage, just dosen't have the impact to back it
Don rolling like over a hundred speed would be hysterical ngl
Don is just trying to channel her inner Red Mist for the infinite speed
Im calling it right now,in the future,we will get an EGO version for base ids as some sort of evolution 😎👌
Limbus Company has always felt like a single player story driven RPG that was reworked into a Gacha halfway through development. The limited cast, near non-existent multiplayer functionality, in-depth combat system more geared towards boss fights, the lackluster state in which resource farming features were implemented on-release, and overall the way in which this whole game could be packed as a non-gacha live service all point to it being thrown in at the finish line or at least very late in development. With the way identities work right now it the progression would make a lot more sense if IDs were treated more as equipment for the base ids instead of separate entities.
I love this game, but I would be lying if I didn't say that it just feels like it has been struggling figuring out what it wants to be on the long term. It still remains as the single most F2P friendly gacha I've ever played so they must be doing something right.
As someone who has never used the gacha system and only used base sinners, I hope after watching this will catch the agony I've been through
EDIT: Video accurately depicts the state of base ids, especially the lack of count raising effects except for bleed (Only uptie 4 actually makes Don and Rodion decent at this.), though something that didn't get raised up was speed for both Ishmael and Yisang being pretty high, which hurts Ishmael but helps Yisang.
Ishmael's skill 1 raises tremor count, but shes so fast that the other ids that give tremor cant even go first before her, while Yisang is fastest, letting him use crows eye view perfectly.
The buff you described for Meursault is basically just Blockma
0:29 S.F.K.P (Sentence Failure & Killing People)
It’s been a year since this video is uploaded but I haven’t seen any buff for our original lcb sinner. What a shame 😢😢😢
I feel like having uncapped speed could become a problem for Don Quixote (don't ask me why, it's just a gut feeling), but I do like the idea of changing her passive. So, with the reworked speed, I think a condition in her passive that states something along the lines of "if clash won, increase the maximum speed cap by 3 and the minimum speed cap by 1" would be very interesting, if not perhaps too unique
Aw hell yeah, after a couple months, base id video comes home
Even as someone who has whaled for literally everything in the game, I still exclusively use the base IDs in story content. It's not as painful as trying them in challenge content like Railway, but they still provide a small bit of challenge.
*Long-winded explanation of why my perspective is so warped below
LCB Gregor is already fun to play. He is easily categorized as a tank with the only healing ability outside of Don Quixote's base E.G.O, which hardly counts when E.G.O is so hard to use. LCB Yi Sang already has a solid kit. LCB Ishmael is a fine DPS, second only to LCB Heathcliff and possibly LCB Sinclair (I have never had her on the same team as him). I agree that Don Quixote needs some spice to justify putting her on a team- she is strong on her own, but does not synergize with other Sinners in any way.
I love your team synergy idea and would personally greatly benefit from it. I hope so badly it is only a little further down the pipeline.
*When I started playing Limbus approximately one month ago, I committed to never use extraction. I do not like that the game would randomly dictate my access to classes and abilities, so I am playing it as if the deterministic dispenser was the only way to obtain E.G.O and additional identities. The mandatory tutorial extraction does give Shi Ishmael, but she is kind of terrible in every way. Not to mention that the dispenser is hopelessly expensive, so I essentially only have the base roster. I am about to finish Canto IV.
personally for don, I’d just up the base speed and have the skill 1give more haste, as well as either extra damage or coin power or idk an extra coin or whatever if used after winning a clash. it fits with her intended play style, which is to win clashes with s2 to boost s1, then use that to boost s3
more bleed WOULD be nice, and also works for lore reasons, but it isn’t really necessary. also those lore reasons directly contradict why her kit is the way it is but that’s a spoiler
honey wake up Esgoo just dropped a new video 🥰
To be honest I never use IDs at all. I am very lazy aswell.
Also how could I replace Don Quixote or Meursault? They are peak.
I think it’d be really cool if the base IDs grew stronger the more canto’s you completed. Weather you buff them collectively, or buff a specific ID based on their Canto, I dunno, but I think it’d be a cool indicator, gameplay and story-wise, of their growth
the problem with your suggestion for meursault's block is that it turns it into a more complex counter
otherwise, yeah it'd be really cool if we got these changes (they might save the base ids)
Blockma moment
I'm not saying it was a reasonable aim in the first place, but I think Base Quixote had the problem of it being tied into her EGO. Remember when the passive used to give her a haste boost? Yeah, I think that's why it feels that all her haste requirements before Cinq feel unfair.
I think what she actually needs is a new ZAYIN EGO with a haste giving passive again. The minor problem is that if it's another Resonance passive, then she's screwed, because lust is such an important part of her haste IDs, and she already has her base.
She needs an EGO that can give her haste on demand as a passive, but somehow working for three different kits. Best I can come up with is "On clash win, gain haste by the half of the highest resonance (once per turn). If it is (either absolute resonance, a specific resonance type, or maybe this skill is part of the passive), then give a bonus effect (maybe it'll be the full resonance instead of half, or it'll let it be more times per turn).
Or heck, maybe the passive could be as simple as "when using a defensive skill, gain haste next turn."
It's funny how the game's combat already reminds me of Darkest Dungeon, so you mentioning mark only solidifies the similarities in my head.
Bit of a spoiler for canto 5 part 2 but
When you fight middle big brother it’s kinda cool to see Ishmael actually getting beat out of her Id she using. Shows how id works in canon.
I personally think base IDs will get a major upgrade at some point in our story.
I guess its better just to wait and see plot twist. Bcause same could be said about Ruina nuggets and librarians. They still a normal citizens that on their paths, and we will se how they will blossom later, or maybe even next week on last Ish's story part
I still think that limbus only "ended" with his tutorial part to involve newcomers to PM story, like everything before urban nightmare starting from victory on Queen of Hatred
Yay for Base ID love. I must say, going through Canto 5 with them, doing the Story with them is easily the most fun way to play for me. I do wish Uptie 4 gave them more unique sets, but I will still do all the Story with them, no matter what.
That is a really cool idea, I hope it get's implemented somewhat.
i think lore wise, PM meant for the base IDs to suck, because the story is about a ragtag team of strangers who are this close to bashing each other's brains out and are only there simply because they needed 12 people who would take any order (hence the constant mention of "the contract"). As for why they just needed 12 placeholders, was to use their two main aces that being Dante with his revive and the different Identities of the sinners in alternate timeline where they aren't suck and can actually fight. Then you don't have to worry about the sinners being weak, just have to pull out an alternate version of them that aren't suck.
as for why they could be buffed lore wise, the company don't have any incentives, the chapters that relates to the sinners also don't make them stronger physically, only mentally and help them be more social and friendly with their co-workers.
The only issue i see is that ryoshu is canonically a terrifyingly powerful & dangerous combatant who was actively weakened by Dante's Contract.
That, and she' believed to have personally pissed off every single part of The Hand, and LIVED. Which is a rather scary & impressive implication.
Looking at the rodion section, I think you gotten that line about sp wrong, in my interpretation, it’s more of a failsafe, if rodions sp ever reaches below 0, that line would kick in to give her a little boost to hopefully help her raise her sp back. But just my opinion
Cool idea. But I think it would be also interesting if after some chapter, where certain character get a massive development, they also got new base ID's. Like new 3 star ID or entire new rarity. With upgraded gear, new moves, and new sprites for campaign. Sounds to much, but knowing that we will spend a lot of tome with those base sinners I hope pm find time and money to make it happened. Which symbolize their grows and make them less dependent on different versions of themselves.
I'd second that. Maybe we can get to something that akin to the "witcher" rarity in Witcher 3 (or the "Iconic" in CB 2077), a "rarity" that stands out from the others by tying itself solely to progression/tinkering/improments, more or less a "non-rarity rarity". A rarity in which you do not roll dice to get better replacements, but slowly and steadily improve by dumping resources into them.
Honestly, I'd love to see these ideas, maybe with the uptie 5's for these ids being ONLY once you beat their canto?, maybe a seperate thing from an uptie but a canto buff?
Shrug, though presuming its like that you could buff em to be around 00 level stat wise but with less unique mechanics that'd make most 00s better in proper team building
Given I’m doing a base ID run of the game for my first playthrough, this is an oddly fitting video to see.
Honestly i love the idea like having a character with such a big range on speed, reminds of some ruina card that can be like 10-30 and its so funny. Let the girl get her zoomies
If u know dokkan battle, i would made the same, doing reworks (ezas) where u need to pass somewaht of a hard battles to get special medals to powerup old units, so they dont go useless in a matter of a year or less.
Wuld be very interested but hard to achieve cuz u need to practically do a new set of passives for an old skill set of a unit.
Thee thing about base ids was the free upgrades you got as you play through the story.
UNTIL UPTIE 4 CHANGED THAT
At 27:44 the MD4H I was doing started playing Between Two Worlds and I thought that was this video's BGM and it was supposed to be a very heartfelt moment which confused me
It solidifies your point better though somehow
Honestly, I'm sad with the base characters being abandoned. Like I WANT to raise them, but I can't due limited resources.
At least in Genshin, you can still use starter characters during exploration. Some account even manage to make them play in the abbys. I still use Kaeya until now. 😭
Maybe they can make base id stronger in future by making "only base id you can raise into more than tier 5"? I'm drinking copium here.
Limbus corp just tells me how bankrupt it is in the lore, just like in lobotomy
Maybe the base IDs could be buffed in their particular encounters. Sinclaire has a different set of moves while fighting The One Who Grips - or something like that.
They could also add a sort of “combo” type effect like from library and that could make for some interesting nuke or defence options
I think they could give out some scale up, as they get the experience even if through alternative ID's I'm sure some of it seeps through. I don't know...
I was thinking over the other day about how might the single-coin IDs like base Ishmael and Don be made more effective, but without just adding more coins, and also making it interesting lorewise, and the idea I came up with was a special effect that could be added. Manipulated Wish. If this skill were to lose in a clash, it doesn't, up to the number of Manipulated Wishes on the skill. So if a skill has 2 Manipulated Wishes, it can "lose" a clash without actually losing one of the coins to clash with a max of 2 times. Whether it should be a "negated" clash, like the failed clash is just treated as if it didn't happen and everyone reflips coins, or if it's just a reroll, that the enemy coins are the same and you reflip your coins once more, or even if it's coin-specific, that each wish can reflip only one coin making it less effective on multi-coin skills, you could adjust how it works to balance it quite a bit.
It's partially inspired by the Purple Tear's Manipulator of Odds passive from LoR, if a die rolls the minimum value it gets rerolled for free, but also by that "Wish" technology mentioned in Canto 2. In the lore, the Sinners would start incorporating some of the stolen J Corp tech allowing them to make a combat encounter slightly more in their favor, maybe an enemy that would have landed a hit "just so happens" to trip before they can land the hit, or a Sinner's intuition flairs up at the right moment to have them notice a hidden enemy they almost overlooked, translating into gameplay as a lost clash potentially being saved.
Depending on how it's made to work mechanically, if the failed clash actually counts or not, you could even start to incorporate more "on clash lose" effects into those kits. Like, if the clash fails and a Wish is used up, it still counts as a lost clash triggering that effect, but you can still clash again and potentially win.
So, a rework idea i thought of
Slay(rodion s3)
[After attack]: if 2 coins on this skill rolls tails, trigger bleed damage(example: if an enemy has 5 potency and 3 bleed count, if the condition is fulfilled, they would take 5 damage and lose 1 count) if all coins landed heads, deal 10% of total damage dealt as wrath damage, then lose 10-15(numbers are in testing, this is a (game) theory after all) sp. This would not only 1: fix (one of the only) issues with bleed, which is that it relies on clashing for damage, making it (arguably) worthless against staggered targets, but with a condition that is both balanced, unique, and fitting for the character.
It would be cool if after you complete the chapter related to the character the base ID gets an upgrade where You can custom it. Add moves and pasives from other ID's You have. Nerfed versions so it won't be overpowered but then you could do a lot more Unique builds.
I don't know what draws me in but I really like base casts, they are distinct in their own way (live laugh love Mersault
Giving Don zoomies. Its perfect
Ngl, base ID's helped me a LOT in canto 3
Tbf, it's not until late Canto IV that it becomes really tricky
We saw gregors arm change before. when gregor was on the train post Gcorp war he had a normal arm. but after hearing the other passengers talk shit about G corp and its soldiery it transformed and went for the throat on its own. his arm has almost limitless morphic potental but it remains a bug because of gregors self perception and inherent hopelessness and self loathing.
I think esgoo cracked the code - we have to watch his videos waiting for update...
basically every gacha games has this problem, the characters in your party are not the same as the ones in the story (unless you are weird and do lore accurate playthroughs). i think it is cool that you came up with an "excuse" for making them viable though