What's the difference between French and Italian baroque music? | Team Recorder
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2024
- Hi early music fans, here I give you an introduction into the wonderful differences between French, Italian and German baroque music!
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Once you've signed up, head here for my playlist! It's name is 'Sarah Jeffery: the Baroque Recorder'. found in the 'Artist Playlist' section. Enjoy!
bit.ly/TheBaroqueRecorder
/// PLAYLIST DETAILS
To help you know what's going on when listening to the playlist, here is a guide to the tracks I've selected:
ORCHESTRAL
1-2. Italian, Corelli
3. French, Rameau
4. German, Bach
VARIATIONS UPON A GROUND
5. Italian, Merula
6. French, Marais
SOLO
7-8. French, Hotteterre
9. German, Bach
ORNAMENTATION
10. Italian, Viavldi
11. French, Couperin
SONATA
13. Italian, Corelli
14. French, P.D. Philidor
15. German, Telemann
OPERA
16. Italian, Farina
17. French, Lully
18. English, Purcell
'GAVOTTE' DANCE
19. French, Montéclair
20. Italian, Vivaldi
21. German, Bach
ENGLISH WEIRDNESS!
22. Locke
/// INSTRUMENTS
In this video I play on:
- a 415 baroque alto by Thomas van Ginneken
- a 415 voice flute by Tim Cranmore
- a 442 soprano by Küng
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Видеоклипы
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One of my recorder teachers summarized the difference between French and Italian ornamentation this way: In the Italian style, hang garlands of flowers between the notes. In the French style, stud the individual notes with jewels.
It is a good point. This is why I love French baroque music.
T. Llll our iu
“A cathedral of notes”. I love it, perfect description of a Bach fugue.
As an amateur lutenist approaching french baroque music for the first time this has been really informative and fun (the fun is infectious Sarah!)
Fun, easy to understand, informative, Sarah you're great as usual :)
Fun fact: Lully was actually Italian! (yes, I'm a proud Italian guy :D )
Yes! Lulli! I thought that might complicate the video a bit though 😅
@@Team_Recorder Sure, I see. You did a great job condensing so much information in such a short video, you're awesome :)
Sì esattooo :)
Sarah, your enthusiasm and charisma make classical music so fun and exciting. You're the kind of person we need to make the world richer and more colourful, and, of course, more appreciative of the magnificent instrument that is the recorder. Thank you for your videos!
Thank you very much! 💕
the first time that I heard the name "recorder" I was so confused. I speak Spanish and we call it "sweet flute".
Jajajaja así me paso a mi de niño cuando empezaba a escuchar música clásica, pensé que tenía que ver con “grabadora” o algo así.
Para ellos “flute” se refiere a la travesera.
You have no idea how much you saved me Sarah! I have a music history exam tomorrow about Telemann's Hamburger Ebb' und Fluth, and one of the requirements was to include a section about the national styles of baroque! I couldn't find anything good on them until I stumbled on this video. Thank you so much for a very informative and well produced video!
I spent around an half an hour earlier today trying to figure out what the french treblement actually meant, and if I had waited until this video came out, I could’ve just watched this instead. I’m so glad to know I concluded the right thing though (that’s it’s more or less just a trill), so thank you.
Haha great!
Sarah, I love this video!!! My recorder teacher and mentor, was born here in the US, but lived and studied music in France for forty years before returning to the states. I feel so lucky to have had her expertise in French music as part of my molding as a musician. Although she is no longer with us, I cherish my years of learning from her and playing along side her, I feel very blessed to have had her in my life. Thank you for this great video!
The correct translation for les goûts réunis (at 6:38) would be the reunited tastes (i.e. French and Italian) rather than the good taste.
You seem to be right, but wouldn't the word "goûts" actually be used in the sense of "good taste" in this context?
@@FernieCanto "mauvais gout" means "bad taste" so, gout doesn't necessiraly has to be "good", it's just taste! ;)
@@yahyamhirsi "so, gout doesn't necessiraly has to be "good""
But I never said that. My question was, wouldn't the word be used in the sense of "good taste" IN THE *SPECIFIC CONTEXT* of the term "les goûts réunis"? Anyone can use Google Translate to go on a comment to say Sarah is wrong (because that's all people do on the Internet: point fingers and say people are wrong), but I wanted to know from someone who actually understands the context of the term. Any sufficiently smart person knows that you can't always rely on literal translations when it comes to terms like that.
@@FernieCanto Why do you sound like I made a mortal sin? My only intention was to correct a wrong translation as Lauri did above, and I'm a fluent french speaker by the way.
I'm a content creator myself and I appreciate it when people correct anything wrong I say because of my lack of knowledge of a particular language or anything in general.
My point is that if Couperin really wanted to title it "les bons goûts réunis" which means "the good tastes reunited" he would have done that.
And when one adds such subjective adjectives like "good" or "bad" just out of interpretation, that's not translation anymore, in my opinion.
I've spent the last year to try to get historical performance under my skin and have been desperate for someone to give me a an idea exactly about this topic! I'm so lucky, thank you Sarah!
16:43 Wow the way you played the allegro was so delightful🙌, I wish so much that you'd have continued! It's so light and full of life, in a way that I haven't heard played from others. Your recorder playing is indeed so unique and joyous Sarah, you should really consider recording all the fantasias.
I was studying baroque ornamentation while on a trip... this video appeared today on my recommendations;)
I’m still loving binging your vids whilst I do boring things like washing dishes. Oh my heart does still love this world and I do miss music theory! Thank you so much for the informative vids =D (I told my husband about your channel last night and I instantly got the “I married a nerd” face. I’m smiling so much right now thank you!) x
Fascinating Sarah - I always learn so much from your wonderful videos. I really enjoy those about the history of music.
wow. this whole video plus the playlist are absolutely gold!!
Hi Sarah, greatings from Uruguay! your videos are fun 🎉
even thou I play harmonica, I find lots of useful tips, thank you!
Great video - so much information explained in a very accessible way! Thanks so much for making it!
I can't emphasize how helpful this is! I've been learning the traverso and researching these stylistic differences but could never find a broad introduction. Your videos have been extremely helpful and informative! The information and comparison between the French and Italian styles, consolidated in one source is great - thank you!
Ah great to hear, thanks! 😄
You are fabulous!! I loved this and can't wait to share with my students!
I love your videos. Thanks.
...you make classical information so accessable to us drop out Blues guitar pickers...😀🤘
Amazing stuff ! Thank you 😁
A fascinating, interesting and informative presentation. You are indeed an excellent teacher and musician.
This video is extremely informative. Thank you.
Wow! That was a whole course! I've been listening to Baroque music for a long time and am going to have a lot more things to listen for. Thanks.
Thank you for making me discover all these composer.
Hello Sarah, I loved this one! Not as nerdy as when you deal with music theory or finer points of technique but still fascinating to listen to.
These are very useful. I can combine these with those I learnt from piano lessons.
From what I have been able to read, the music of Matthew Locke tended to be quite chromatic and dissonant for baroque standards because Locke wanted to consolidate his own style of English Baroque instead of following the schools of continental Europe. In fact, the guy was dismissive of foreign composition styles; once he pronounce: "I never yet saw any Forain Instrumental Composition worthy an English mans Transcribing". It reminds me a bit of the kind of views associated with musical nationalism from the mid to late 19th century, especially in Russia, only almost 200 years earlier.
Stumbled upon your channel. Before that ... I had no Idea the recorder was an actual instrument I always thought it was just a tool for schools to get back at parents, kidding. I love the information you are providing and the format. Thanks!
The playlist is brilliant. Any plans to make more? Primephonic actually looks worth the money, so thanks for advertising it.
I love this video, thank you! (Also your top is so nice!)
Thank you! Can’t remember where it’s from.. I always seem to wear it in my baroque music videos 😂
Thank you for the video, especially the link to primephonic. I've been resisting streaming services because they mostly don't reflect my interests, for example difficult and obscure religious music, (Poulenc motets anyone?). Right off I found Handel Brockes -Passion whose very existence I was unaware of. Please continue the videos they are both informative and entertaining and thank you again.
Great video!
Figured bass makes me think of the jazz lead sheets of today.
That's maybe why I love baroque coming from a jazz background. I think i'll now describe it as the jazz of "classical" music.
Improvisation was very important in those days and the best recordings of today still have a lot of embellishment on the repeats. Cadenzas were there for performers to show their stuff. Nowadays the composer often writes out the cadenzas.
Beautiful summarization! Speaking of les gouts reunis, one of my favorite pieces of baroque music is none other than Telemann’s Ouverture Suite for recorder in A minor. That Italian air is gorgeous.
Yes!
This is fantastic.
No idea there are sonatas for recorder😱😱 also learned of composer that I have never heard of before. Thank you so much!
thank you i did love this
Glad, you use Kate Clark's photo for Traverso. I love her playing.
Hi, happened to find your channel during this Corona time, have watched almost all of videos by now. They are so nice, informative, open. In this one I saw you mentioning cornetto. The one in the picture is cornetto muto that’s not the most usual kind of this instrument, as they are normally curved (muto has an integrated mouthpiece, most cornettos have detachable ones).
Out of curiosity, have you ever played one? At least some cornetto players play recorder, too 🙂 BTW, cornetto is an instrument, the name of which confuses many. In English people may mix it with cornet, in German it’s Zink, just like the metal (in Finnish the same, sinkki).
I myself have played recorder, on and off, for quite a long time, I have a rosewood alto made by Huber in Switzerland. Two years ago started playing cornetto, now a maple one by Jeremy West. I actually play with recorder players in a small group of older people, tutored by members of Finnish Baroque Orchestra, which is just lovely.
Your channel inspires me to pick my recorder up more often ❤️
Hello Sarah, you forgot to mention the dutch baroque music. Great video, thumpsup
Good point! Dutch would fall more under the German style, which was ‘Les Gouts Reunis’ or ‘the good taste’- an eventual amalgamation of the French and Italian styles.
When I was learning recorder it seems I had no trouble with Italian or German music but French drove me crazy. I didn’t fare to well with English music either.
Thank you, as always, for a wonderful presentation. As a novice in learning the mechanics and techniques of music, but as an enthusiast of history, this is greatly appreciated. Can you, at some point, discuss a comparison of these styles and traditions with those of Spain? There must have been some crossover from Italy, thanks to Scarlatti; but as the Bourbons were ruling the country at this time, French influence might have been stronger. Would either of these be correct, or did Spain develop her own Baroque dialect? So many thanks.
Very clear, well done and enthusiastic !!
I do think we generally miss videos about Baroque music from other countries like Spain or the Netherlands.
Ohh there is so much amazing music from those countries too! For another video methinks..
@@Team_Recorder Right !! Anyway, the music of this area is so rich and vivid, it'd take hours of video to explore it.
Hello Sarah! Congratulations for your video, the content is great!! I just would like to ask you if you can give me any recomendation of any books to have more information about French and Italian baroque musical differences. I am interested to make an analysis based on the violin (or bowed instruments) interpretation. Thanks you so much and will be waiting your next videos.
Thank you for this video. Very helpful. Most of the examples you gave were of the later period of the baroque. There are great pieces of music on early and middle baroque too. Could you go into that, too?
Oh yes! That is a whole world to jump into 😊 Thia video is indeed more on high baroque, but there was loads of castello, fonatana, etc catching my eye..!
Great video. Thanks! :)
So, the Scottish bagpipe tradition (with all the competitions and rules on how to do all the ornamentations) seems to be quite French. ;)
I am just realizing what a great violin teacher I had: in the years of puberty when I didn't feel like practicing, she let me sit at the piano teaching me harmonics (theory of harmony) and figured bass. I still know lots of it more than 30 years later. :)
Wow that is a great teacher!
Sara, as always, you deliver us fun and interesting content.
Thanks for sharing it.
I just have one advice for everyone: GO FRENCH BAROQUE MUSIC. Hahaha.
For this topic I would recommend two book by Betty Bang Mather: "Free Ornamentation in Woodwind Music", and "Interpretation of French Music from 1675 to 1775." The only problem is where to get these books. They go in and out of print. Perhaps you can check the vonHuene workshop in Boston. They may have them.
I found the first one at amazon.com. Unfortunataly it is rather expensive:
www.amazon.com/Ornamentation-Woodwind-Music-Betty-Mather-dp-0941084051/dp/0941084051/
i loved the sweet song of the sirens in the background at 14:30 - 14:36
There is a movie about Marin Marais, "Tout les Matins du Monde".
Great video! Just one remark: "Les gouts réunis" means " the reunited tastes" rather than "the good tastes".
15:41 "Aah, Telemann!"
Couldn't agree more :)
Primephonic appears to have been taken down. :( Any chance you could share the names of the specific tracks that were on that list?
Lully was an italian at the French court.
I would like to add that in France the Viol was highly valued as a solo instrument and that French viol music for unaccompanied Viol or Viol and continuo was much more popular than consort music. By that point though in Italy it had fallen out of use and was considered old-fashioned.
Also, in France the melodic lines were very influenced by the French language and thories on rethoric, even in purely instrumental music. There were also certain gestures as well.
As for inegales, they are not used everywhere the same way, it would depend on the dance and the rhythmic level.
Yes all auper useful, thanks!
And how does the Galant style differ ? Basically a somewhat simplified take on French and Italian elements. As I read about Galant in my somewhat cursory way I hear it described in ways that sound like Italian and French baroque.
England was behind the times due to the civil war.
No music, no Christmas, no dancing, no theatre ;Result stagnant musical development. Puritans killed the arts. All led by Cromwell and the Parliamentarians
I was so glad to find Early Music Sources here on RUclips. It's a quirky series of explanations of issues like tuning. I never knew how harpsichords were tuned, until i saw the examples. Great stuff. Well worth a watch. No wonder J S Bach applied some rational German logic. It was loco out there. Early Music Sources doesn't take itself too seriously, which I also appreciate.
Im afraid your links wouldn't load, so I shall try to find your music list when the bandwidth improves. I find Bach's instrumental music to be quite passionate. I used to over -ornament Handel, but never Bach. He comes oven-ready, so to say. Yes, his music could be played without passion, but I cant play the second movement of Brandenburg 2 without expending a lot of emotional energy. Digging deep into the music is difficult with the recorder, but well worth it. I love your channel. Stay well.
Thanks Katrine, the links have been fixed in rhe meantime!
Every reference to violins, from now on, it's a roast to those australian guys...
Hi, I’m new to your channel. I’m a beginning violinist (just over 1 yr) and I’m also taking piano lessons (3 months in). If you don’t teach music history you should!! You explain things so well and your passion makes it so fun to listen to!
Thank you so much for this interesting and wonderful video! But I had the feeling sometimes that you were more enthusiastic on italian music. So, I will play some sad french music to expell from my heart this bad feeling... 😪 * stepping away, half-dancing, half-walking, full of suffering dignity * 🤴
Ohhh, I didn't mean to give a preference one way or the other..! *pas de bourrees sadly away*
@@Team_Recorder Dear Sarah, I trust you and ask you to excuse my reaction. I see that in your first book 5that I will receive soon), you included some french composers - I shouldn't listen to my feelings. *Coming back gaiement and even tendrement.*
Esses lindos olhos verdes são demais
HAHA, Rob Scallon doing metal Theorbo! 😄😸
The Italian one is so niiiice
can you make a recorder lesson part three ?
I feel like the Italian style has more momentum in it; you always feel like you’ve launched to the current notes why whatever you just played. Whereas in the French style everything feels more self contained and reserved. Usually I prefer the Italian style which is weird since Marin Marais is one of my favorite composers and he was as French Baroque as they come
Sarah é inteligente e linda demais
please make a response video to the new TwoSetViolin video
cornetto, i thought that was an ice cream by walls of jerico ..jeff..
“They were paying his rent” #bachproblems
Baroque period didn't end with Bach's death; 1750 is just a convenient and easy year to remember for people who doesn't know the music, and for those that think Baroque is all Bach. Handel, Rameau, Telemann and lots of others all lived beyond 1750. Quite a funny statement for you to make about a German composer when talking about French and Italian music.
I'm in the second half of the video... and I already got lost :'D but it could be because I speak spanish and I'm not used to hear British English u.u
the video is very interessing thank you. The like to sign up to PRIMEPHONIC isn't working. How can I use your code?
Thanks for catching this! Will re-check and let you know as soon as it's fixed..!
Fixed! Thanka again for catching it!
The "French" composer Lully was actually Italian.
Long-time baroque fan here: I never knew ornamentation could be classified as being passagi or grace notes! One of my favourite baroque violinists, Enrico Gatti, uses a lot of melodic ornamentation - which I now know is called passagi - in his recordings.
One good example I can think of is the first movement from Corelli's violin sonata op5 no11 in E major, performed in this video by Enrico Gatti at 31:19
ruclips.net/video/Tl4x2V0504Q/видео.html
vs that same movement performed by Remy Baudet which is more "by the book" and less ornamented:
ruclips.net/video/RMz93TYx-V8/видео.html
You can tell which is trying to be authentic - the first one is in 415hz, the second is in 440.
Lully. The reason why music in France is so elitist in general and anything popular gets shat on so bad even when it's decent. Ugh.
It's actually extremely helpful !
Did you say "baroque"? Lekker! Corelli, Loeillet, Bodin de Boismortier, Marais, etc.
You forgot "At times Annoying"
What are the wonderful differences between the three? La musique baroque française est la musique baroque française. La musica barocca italiana è musica barocca italiana. Deutsche Barockmusik ist deutsche Barockmusik.
😉
BTW: You really ought to take up the violin, I did. Try it. You’ll love it! 😊 🎻 🎶
I had no real interest in knowing the difference... But I like your presentation...!
My heart skipped on "Cathedrals of notes" !!! haha
XLNT (-8
de Lully,... Italian? French? ... help me here
The artists get paid/sec eh? But hey most artists I listen to are dead now. :(