Viessmann, is this why we could never get along?
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2022
- #viessmann #boiler #plumbing
In this video I am installing a new boiler and UFH system to a semi detached house in South East London.
We also try to answer the question of why it is so difficult to get this Viessmann boiler thing right. We may have an answer to that! 
Хобби
Great detective work. Amazing that 23 years later and the cunning plan still seems to be working. That's German efficiency.
The best plumbing video I've seen on RUclips. Your content is miles ahead and really it comes down to your knowledge, language and experience
Thank you !
Can we have a branch of Urban Plumbers in every county? Top content as usual. Kudos for the time and effort that these videos require. What a champion.
good idea - I am branching to Portugal soon. Maderia would be preferable.
@@UrbanPlumbers Hi, so much stuff in your videos it’s hard to digest.
Would you be willing to do a job in Ipswich? Seriously! Replace rads, replace boiler, make our house warm.
Cheers, keep up the good work
@@rvoele ALi Sutor is your man in Ipswitch, Ali Sutor - Smart Heating Solutions Ltd
"Loft sludge bucket" - Love it! So true!
I am retired Heating Engineer and installed my Viessmann Vitodens 200 weather compensated system before retireing great boiler range, I was involved in many commercial installs and received great training from Viessmann on their products free of charge , I would suggest anyone getting involved in there products to get the neccesary training and ask some questions. If you are lucky enough to attend there factory you will be amazed how far ahead they are of other manufacturers. You wouldnt buy a Porche and take it to a Dacia dealer for service would you.
Eddie, my Porsche garage usually has correct parts send for servicing, which can’t be said about Viessmann sadly.
I was a viessmann key installer and moved to viessmann from Vaillant (sine18?) because of vitotronic weather compensator and solar thermal. Up to then I had been using honeywell AQ6000 weather compensator with wiring diagram from Vaillant but was a bit involved. AQ6000 also did optimum on and off, learnt the thermal inertia of the property, best ever controller.
I fell out with viessmann over spare parts, I had a WB1A with faulty gas valve and customer was expecting a baby with home birth and could viessmann send the gas valve, no, did they care no. They shut my account because of my complaints! A lot of these big companies act as though they are infallible.
I only watch these videos because I find them interesting but it has to be said, that is one awesome space!!
Yes, looks nice now, doesn’t it?
Haha, that vcr clip at the end was hilarious! You the man!
🤙
I think you should make a Viessmann installers group to share knowledge & help each other, as its a good product but needs a practical knowledge base
Could you do the work to create and administer this group Charles, and we installers willl all join it ?
Plumbing is not my trade and I don't understand some of what you talk about but love your videos, I wonder do your customers know how lucky they are to have you working for them 😉
They do.
This guy is great, but needs to read Viessmann's Technical Guides deeply to eliminate a couple of errors in his thinking. For example
1) changing rads over to UFH on thin floor insulation will raise his customer's gas bills by dumping heat into the ground
2) this dual-temperature VD200 boiler will have to run at least from 4am/10pm because of the 4 hour lag in the rads/UFH combination
3) the weather comp UFH will force the householder to run the VitoDens 200 to run 24/7 for the living room, despite the 1hr 'boost'.
Not to panic, there are solutions to all of this...
First separate out the German mentality from British mentality. Our Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg cousins run their homes on uninterrupted heating because they are so well insulated. Imagine 10" rockwool in your walls instead of 4". This leads German Viessmann to the vast array of subtle options in their weather compensation menus - setbacks, boosts, piggy button, party button, room % influence, variable temperature hysteresis, ramp up & down speeds, delay start, load compensation via flow+return pipe sensors, an absolute dream for a heating techies.
Secondly, realise that the Germans unflinching invest £12k in their heating & control systems, while the British grumpily hand out £5k max, or £7k to British Gas venture capitalists. Find a British customer for me who thinks buying a Viessmann mixed Divicon and an unmixed Divicon is a good investment, ha ha ! So Germans then expect their system to be well maintained annually with the use of instruments to measure flow rates, pressures, temperatures & water chemistry (British skimp on this and still expect 10 year warranties).
Thirdly, the Germans make space for their heating systems whereas the British expect you to squeeze all the heating into a kitchen cupboard. Look at how Urban Plumbers have to shoehorn in a UFH manifold here, a pump over there, the pipework inaccessible behind tiles and kickboard - it's shameful how British heating installers are expected to produce invisible work.
Fourth - our British heating installers are either self taught, or only fleetingly taught with one-day product demonstrations at Glow-Worm or Vaillant or Potterton etc. You come home with a bag of brochures and a branded coffee cup and now you're going to help home owners save fuel, right? Good luck. Okay, here's a challenge: Who out there knows how to set the pre-charge pressure of an expansion vessel for a) a hydronic heating circuit, b) an unvented hot water cylinder and c) a solar thermal glycol circuit. Answers on an A4 sheet please.
You want to save your customers gas consumption? Forget the competition between condensing boilers that are 99.3% or 99.6% fuel efficient (hint: look for condensation plumes drifting out from every installer's flues. What does condensation in the garden tell you about this housholders' system? Huh?). No, try this instead. Free of charge from me to you all.
www.dropbox.com/s/16zwaq7q3u4r2g7/22%20save30%25ads-1.jpg?raw=1
www.dropbox.com/s/l4yhh9nzs8ibhdb/22%20save30%25ads-2.jpg?raw=1
www.dropbox.com/s/p3knh0z6d1d8kf9/22%20prepCylAd.jpg?raw=1
@@claudiahamminger-stone3274 Just so I'm clear, you're claiming that multiplying the heating surface area by 10X (compared to the single radiator) and using insulated boards where previously he had no insulation, he will be paying more to heat this room?
Szymon I follow a few channels mainly electrical, @ArtElectrics , @N_bundy_spark , etc, I can honestly say though your channel by far is the most informative through your professional presentation skills focussing solely on the subject with no detracting to irrelevant topics.
Please keep doing this in the way that you do, each and every video will help others of all ages in the trade who no doubt will be aspiring to reach your standard and skills base.
If you ever think of giving up the tools I hope you consider a further career in training or leading a regulatory body, I’m sure with your knowledge and straight talking you could bring better compliance within the industry. 10/10 to you….
Agree with this he is spot on.
Another brilliant video/install, thanks for that, very informative
Your knowledge of the heating world absolutely is amazing, many thanks for the video . The Master of the trade .
Thank you so much for making these videos Szymon! I always learn something. If only all plumbers were as diligent and thoughtful as you!
Amazing video your customers are lucky to have you.
So fun to watch even if I don’t know anything about installing boilers. Thanks. Very high tech install.
Viessmann fully deserves this interpretation of their attitude :))))
I have a very old love/hate relationship with Viessmann
From the beginning viessmann had an obsession / fixation for the control of their boilers by weather compensation…
Love these videos, your an expert in this linds thing im just a basic plumbing and heating engineer and would love to learn more
12:05 a round of applause for the seller's honesty!!
Wow amazing video atcend, sums viessmann and us brits up a treat.
Love the videos - have a Viesseman 222f - can't fault the purchase process which referred me to a local installer who was superb. Thank you for explaining the advanced weather compensation - I'm one of those who is confused by the lack of a room thermostat - but now I get it!!
I love the Viessmann 200B2B I purchased >13 years ago, I used to service boiler gas analysers for Kane Instruments, the rep there said get a 200W it's the Best by far, & he was spot on 👍 usual service parts after 13 years, but I have 2 kids used every day 24_7, the 200W engineering on it is fantastic, I recently flushed out my home radiators system (radiators pipes valves etc) got a lot out now leaving a Fernox F3 cleaner in it for a week then flush out next week and add a Fernox F1 protector, wow its back to its new condition warm cosy, I've changed the flow temperature down to 55°C aiming to reduce that when the temperature goes up from 0°C in February, 13 years old boiler has some features I didn't know about now it's going to save me even more money 👍
The engining on their 200W boiler is fantastic I used to work in aerospace defence industry so quality was so very important, so yes I agree with Urban Boilers 200W is fantastic👍 With a combination of underfloor heating which is incredibly efficient his customer must be laughing they be so pleased with the massive efficiency ❤
Underfloor heating is what I want in the future, I wouldn't ever leave Viessmann product I found them helpful sure there very busy, best to email 📧 them, when I got to technical they answered all my questions,
Viessmann Direct sell parts to the public including boilers they arrive next day if not in stock then they get them from Viessmann in Germany upto 10 days for delivery I was informed Viessmann purchased Viessmann Direct as their main parts distributor,
Viessmann 222 is same fantastic unit 👍 with built in Cylinder tank
Great episode!! Last bit is pure gold !! Lol.
Another quality video. The comedy sketch was sooooo good. Well done 👍
Always enjoy your videos and especially enjoyed this one with the 1989 management meeting! 😂
Pahaha brilliant!!! Love the footage
I live in Switzerland and we had a Viessmann 200 w installed. It was a complex setup but it seems like the support in Switzerland is good. The UI and features are beautiful.
Excellent!
I've had a Viessmann Vitodens 100 fitted for about 12 years, no problems yet! Probably should get it serviced one of these days... 🤪
Haha great video. Installing in the EU mainly havent encountered many issues , usually pretty good tech representaion available .
Excellent video. As a consumer we found an installer via their website when our old boiler failed, we wanted a combi - the installer came and installed a boiler but did not connect it to opentherm (which our Viessmann supports) - I was surprised as this is the most optimal way to install, I asked Viessmann and they told me to contact the isntaller and when asked the installers said because we didn't ask we didn't get.
I was assuming the installers were the professionals here and would install the most optimised solution OR at least suggest it.
We found another Viessmann installer locally who fixed that up for us, and is now our go to plumber for installing and more importantly recommendations.
Which model did you install?
@@singlendhot8628 I think it was 100-W
OT support has been pants with Viessmann forever. Depending what you connect, lets say an Evohome. When it calls for heat, the boilers fires at max rate for a couple of minutes then modulates down to the demand. That obviously completely screws the point of the modulated demand.
While it doesn't apply to every OT controller, Honeywell are (and have) continually blamed a flawed Viessmann implementation, and vice versa.
When’s the next post?? I’m an apprentice and really find your videos so informative and full of detail. 👍
Very informative videos Szymon - thank you for the great work you have been doing.
I am surprised, that Viessmann decided not to put room thermostat as an option to 200 series. While weather compensation is perfect for UFH, radiator heating could make use of combined weather/room compensation.
17 years old Junkers has it - controller adjusts heating curve taking room temperature into account.
It is not AI level, but if room temperature let's too high it drops boiler output temperature down.
In my country Viessmann charges heavily for calls .....
Your "VHS" video was wrong, there must have been a bean counter involved.
Best regards from Poland.
next level plumbing
Absolutely spot on. A really switched on installer installed Vitodens 100-W for me set up with hot water priority and weather compensation. I think it will work very well in the end but will probably need Alexa to provide some additional control to that provided by the ViCare app for this boiler. Unfortunately, at the moment only the US and Germany can use Alexa with Viessmann. I now know the reason. Your conclusions and the video are just so accurate. A great shame because it is potentially a great product. Thank you.
Maybe a VPN would allow you to fool the Boiler into thinking that your Gaff is in either North America or Germany...
Hehe, all makes sense now.
Same experience here, great products, mixed bag technical support, AWOL rep, delayed engineer visits, overall frustrating. I have had better experiences recently so they know it and are trying to make good.
😭😭 brilliant mate.
And who said Germans dont have a sense of humour ? Excellent upload
Great video. I'm amazed by the service they don't give. I love the vissemann product but there service is shonky. Once they are fitted I never have any issues with them. I too have had different answers from technical. The boys on the installer network have been great though👍I still love fitting them
Great boiler, no doubt. We need to give V credit for innovation. I guess they are focusing on development mainly and assume that we as installers know more than we really do.
As a retired instaler, I am very sorry to see your recent experience with Viessmann tech support in the UK, as I have long been extolling their virtues as the manufacturer that I had much the happiest experience with. I remember when one of their chief rivals axed their support opperation run with experienced folk and went to a call centre, so these thing happen...very sad.
He's still warming up. After watching every video, I'm sure that Viessmann will replace Intergas as his go to option.
Its funny you talk about Viessmann's installer experience - I am from Germany, Viessmann is a German company - they do the same here. I recently switched my house - ~300 sqm heated - to a quite expensive system by Viessmann, a hybrid air source heatpump with a peak gass boiler, all connectivity features and a 800 liter watertank (buffering heat energy from my PV system, etc). Viessmann wanted to take the system into production themselves, rather then my installer - I thought thats cool, get the manufacturer to do it - awesome. Yepp - after spending round about 45k on the system, they took 6 weeks to take it into production after final installation. 6 weeks without heating in the house, "hot" water from a temporary electric water heater (electricity is around 40 - 50 cents a kwh here and of course that temp heater is not connected to the buffer). Kids sick, wife pissed - Viessmann just goes "well... gotta deal with it, nothing we can do to expedite that, byeeee!" - Honestly its one of the worst experiences I have had with a premium product company. The kicker: The only reason we got a fixed date for the final installation was that I kicked up a big fuzz on twitter with them - before that they didnt even return calls to arrange the installation. Its BAD!
That's shocking! you should share this on social media to shame them into improvement!
@@singlendhot8628 i got them to commit to a date via social media shaming. They dont give a fuck quite frankly. Germany is pushing heatpumps so hard, they know they have golden times ahead so fuck the customer
Great work there 👍
Thanks 👍
Brilliant video, especially the end 😂😂
Omg the best appraisal of Viessmann UK I ever see. Great product but rubbish company I always say.
That flooring is AMAZING!!! Did you install it?
Viessmann are the most advanced boilers on the market in terms of efficiency and controls. I would encourage you to try another one when you've rejuvenated. You'll get better and won't need their technical support.
This is the MOST INFORMATIONAL episode you've ever filmed. Credit to your client for trusting you to supply such high end kit!
I like 200W. I actually also like 100 series. I do not like the mess the company is though.
@@UrbanPlumbers The 100-W System can modulate just as low as Bosch's 4000/8000 System boilers so there really isn't a competitive advantage there anymore. (The 100-W regular boiler is superior vs. the rest below 30 kW).
But the 200-W is in a totally different class!
Viessmann 200W boilers are particular good with their massive burn modulation ratios, they can now happily run with just a single 2kW radiator open without having to cycle on-and-off. Ahh if only Viessmann UK had not withdrawn the VitoCrossal CU3 from the domestic boiler market. Now THAT was a heat exchanger and a control system to die for. Oh yes, then Vsmn UK withdrew the VDens 300 series too - you see, we British heating installers were just not to be trusted as much as the German crowd, so we got throttled down to having access to just the 100 and 200 series, sigh.
@@claudiahamminger-stone3274 The 200-W is an excellent piece of kit. What benefit did the CU3 have over it?
The most advanced boilers, um, so those rubber flow and return tubes that load up with scale you know the one on the rear of the heat exchanger are really advanced, you know the one that requires you to strip down the boiler so as to get out the heat exchanger so you can replace the rubber hose because its blocked and the most advanced boiler is over heating. Or are you talking about the one with the burner door that snaps its locking mechanism leaving the burner to flap about in the breeze.
Poor technical support and boiler manuals that just leave you to do your own thing, Great.
This is the BEST episode you have produced so far and I have watched them all. I must give your client credit for allowing you to select such an amazing boiler brand and UFH components for them. Did he/she have any inputs into the selection process or did you just decide everything for them during the quotation phase? (Most people never heard of 200 System boilers)
May I ask what you expect their actual savings will be over their previous set up? Why did you not insist on a heat pump? Cost or too much heat loss?
I have Viessmann boilers at all my properties. You are wise to install them as they are superior to most other brands when it comes to efficiency.
All boiler manufacturers have gas-fired boilers at 92% efficiency or above, if an installed 92% efficient Viessmann is running at a higher efficiency than a 92% efficient Vaillant then it’s down to the way the installer has setup the boiler and the way the system is designed. The reason people think Viessmann boilers are more efficient seems to be down to the fact that installers that fit Viessmann are on the whole more clued up on things like heat loading, pump speeds, weather comp etc than installers that install other boilers makes; in my opinion.
@@sip5574 You're totally off the mark. It has advanced weather comp AND is 98% efficient. Real world consumption savings of 15-20% over the 92% boilers you describe.
@@singlendhot8628 From what I can tell, boilers like the Baxi 800 already have the full Opentherm support (same as the advanced weather comp) unlike the Viessmann 100-W which only has a single curve support. If the Baxi can modulate down as much as the Viessmann, then it should in theory be the same in efficiency (Viessmann quote 94%, baxi 93%)
@@TheLinkedList That's a huge if!
This guy is great, but needs to read Viessmann's Technical Guides deeply to eliminate a couple of errors in his thinking. For example
1) changing rads over to UFH on thin floor insulation will raise his customer's gas bills by dumping heat into the ground
2) this dual-temperature VD200 boiler will have to run at least from 4am/10pm because of the 4 hour lag in the rads/UFH combination
3) the weather comp UFH will force the householder to run the VitoDens 200 to run 24/7 for the living room, despite the 1hr 'boost'.
Not to panic, there are solutions to all of this...
First separate out the German mentality from British mentality. Our Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg cousins run their homes on uninterrupted heating because they are so well insulated. Imagine 10" rockwool in your walls instead of 4". This leads German Viessmann to the vast array of subtle options in their weather compensation menus - setbacks, boosts, piggy button, party button, room % influence, variable temperature hysteresis, ramp up & down speeds, delay start, load compensation via flow+return pipe sensors, an absolute dream for a heating techies.
Secondly, realise that the Germans unflinching invest £12k in their heating & control systems, while the British grumpily hand out £5k max, or £7k to British Gas venture capitalists. Find a British customer for me who thinks buying a Viessmann mixed Divicon and an unmixed Divicon is a good investment, ha ha ! So Germans then expect their system to be well maintained annually with the use of instruments to measure flow rates, pressures, temperatures & water chemistry (British skimp on this and still expect 10 year warranties).
Thirdly, the Germans make space for their heating systems whereas the British expect you to squeeze all the heating into a kitchen cupboard. Look at how Urban Plumbers have to shoehorn in a UFH manifold here, a pump over there, the pipework inaccessible behind tiles and kickboard - it's shameful how British heating installers are expected to produce invisible work.
Fourth - our British heating installers are either self taught, or only fleetingly taught with one-day product demonstrations at Glow-Worm or Vaillant or Potterton etc. You come home with a bag of brochures and a branded coffee cup and now you're going to help home owners save fuel, right? Good luck. Okay, here's a challenge: Who out there knows how to set the pre-charge pressure of an expansion vessel for a) a hydronic heating circuit, b) an unvented hot water cylinder and c) a solar thermal glycol circuit. Answers on an A4 sheet please.
You want to save your customers gas consumption? Forget the competition between condensing boilers that are 99.3% or 99.6% fuel efficient (hint: look for condensation plumes drifting out from every installer's flues. What does condensation in the garden tell you about this housholders' system? Huh?). No, try this instead. Free of charge from me to you all.
www.dropbox.com/s/16zwaq7q3u4r2g7/22%20save30%25ads-1.jpg?raw=1
www.dropbox.com/s/l4yhh9nzs8ibhdb/22%20save30%25ads-2.jpg?raw=1
www.dropbox.com/s/p3knh0z6d1d8kf9/22%20prepCylAd.jpg?raw=1
Gave up fitting them about 5 yrs ago after an elderly customer was left without heating over the weekend and beyond when I was told by their technical line "they don't work with 3rd party controllers" late on Friday afternoon - a sticker on the box or addendum in the instructions would have explained this weird situation and avoided a lot of stress.
Excellent but even a general comment on the quality of the thermal envelope in the property would help us understand the reasoning for the solutions you land upon. Thanks.
I've got a w100 system boiler and installation was straightforward, but then it's a much simpler device. I did get an error code which of course wasn't in the manual. But the tech support was fine and told me it was a 'low flow' error. Got the air out of the spiral HE and it's been fine for 15 years (although it's actually had very little use due to solar thermal and woodburner). I did discover that if you don't use the boiler for a year or so the air flap gasket sticks (that gets you an error code that is at least in the manual). That's been the only maintenance issue.
Great vid as normal 👍👍👍👍
What ever you do....do not let Damo see this video! great video though! got my first 050 to fit soon so fingers crossed all goes well!
Ahhh, too late I guess. He must have seen it already :) - great boilers - but we now know the rest - LOL
Ha Ha! Your little "sub video" was VERY amusing. The rest of it was absolutely griping!
I bought a new house 2-years ago and it had a Viessmann Vitodens 222-F installed. To cut a very long story short; the installation plumbers refused to do any servicing. I had to email the managing Director of Viessmann UK to get a service as no-one from the customer services department would return my calls or emails. When an engineer did actually turn up, he said that the automatic by-pass valve had not been fitted. And then he said he would return to fit a broken part he found inside the boiler, but never came back. I live in Gloucestershire (UK) and there are no Viessmann trained engineers in the county. The guy that serviced my boiler came from Wales. I met an old friend in London at the weekend who is a heating engineer. He said the worst company to deal with is Viessmann. They are good bits of kit but ridiculously complicated. Most homeowners will never be able to get the best out of it. I'm too scared to touch mine incase it goes wrong. I'm due for a service in September, so I'd better get the ball rolling now. It ain't going to be straightforward. I wish I had a guy like you as my plumber.
No, no, no. Viessmann is an extraordinarily reliable German company with a British outlet that struggles. Their products from the Vitodens 200 series upwards are fantastic, including the 222. If I could afford the Vitodens 222 at home I would have had one, or the Vitodens 242 energy tower - I have fitted both for customers, and am happy to service yours although I no longer buy the Gas Safe Register extortion licence and so may not commercially carry out 'gas work'. Any ordinary Gas Safe stooge in your area can do the gas & flue side of your boiler, if it needs it.
There is a mismatch between the UK's deregulated market in domestic heating services and those in Germany. This is why Viessmann UK struggles so much. In the horrid EU installers are qualified, whereas in the UK no-one needs to study heating before installing it 'professionally'. So of course Viessmann HQ has this ugly stepchild in the UK where the tech help dept is flooded with low quality calls from installers, who should not really be fitting such amazing equipment.
Twenty years ago Viessmann in the UK and Holland hit upon a compromise - and designed the Vitodens 100 series as an ultra cheap and simple boiler that reflected the abysmal functionality of Baxi, Worcester-Bosch, GlowWorm, Potterton, Vokera etc.. This would allow your typical gas installer to select a Viessmann from the bottom of the range, and not even have to realise that he was dealing with an incredible manufacturer.
@@claudiahamminger-stone3274 I’m guessing you don’t sell many with this attitude 😂😂
@@chrisb4009 I find that the types of customers who go for the Viessmann 200 series boilers are
1. ex-pat Germans, Dutch or Scandinavians who don't scrimp on heating
2. tech minded men from manufacturing industry or academia
3. wealthy bastards who just want the best, or
4. super ecological types who want to integrate solar or wood boilers into one slick system !
@@claudiahamminger-stone3274 Sorry mate but without the "Gas Safe Register extortion licence " you cant legally touch his boiler.
@@robhamps Mate, Engineers who do pay the undeserved Gas Safe Register fees, may carry out all aspects of central heating work except opening the gas ways & flue system, or changing the combustion characteristics. 95% of all gas central heating work in response to call outs does not therefore require you to have bought the GSR licence.
When necessary a fee-paying gas lackey can be called out for annual combustion checks, or God forbid, actually opening up the burner chamber to inspect for damage or to measure whether the electrode distance are within tolerance. Ha! Find a British Gas engineer who does that during his working week of 35 house visits, if you can.
The central purpose of the Gas Safe Register is to assist HMRC in tax collection. At 17 gas related deaths per year, GSR/Corgi are not even faintly interested in saving lives or preventing injury. It's time for conscientious professionals to wake up, and regard Governmental institutions with the disgust they deserve.
Weather comp had been used in the commercial sector for while now !!
Szymon thanks so much for sharing your knowldge and experiences, I thouroughly enjoy your videos and learn much from them.
Have you (or anyone here) had any experience of the Viessman 111W combi compared to the 200 (combi version), if so I'd welcome your thoughts.
We have underfloor heating. Our Viessmann boiler only ever shows the radiator icon, not the tap icon. My plumber tells me this is normal.
Glad to hear there are now boilers that do hot water priority and differentiated temperature. I'd better get one of those!
Your boiler is incorrectly installed
That’s my experience of Viessmann too. Obviously well engineered but zero support and they didn’t even try to make the manuals useful. It really wouldn’t take much to improve it if they wanted - but as your brilliant sketch suggests, they clearly don’t want to.
I'd love to see an install with convector radiators to get to use even lower flow temperatures - even ones at the same temp as underfloor to eliminate a pump. They'd only need to be actively moving air when close to peak loads, say the last 25% peak power. Re circulation in a room helps to de-stratify the air which improves comfort too.
You could also just size rads to the same flow temp as UFH. I am sure I will get to do a job like that soon, especially with new part L regs
At one time we were the bravest of the brave but to learn anything from Viesman involved so much trouble. Everything we ever wanted to do involved another box being ordered from Germany with instructions that would be incomprehensible. Our electrician finally told us that if we carried on installing them he was off.
Totally agree! Top boiler but customer service and back up no none existing .. fitted a 222 aNd called the local rep for some info and he asked me what boiler I was fitting and told him and his actual response was “ha good luck” 😟 also called there warranty department and had the most moody guy on the other end of the phone. Has put me off installing another if I’m honest.
I install mostly Viessmann in Canada and I have to admit that the tech help is very good, but....I have known them for 30 years, so they better be good, LOL
Brilliant 😂
Your recent videos are on another level now and this one in particular was brilliant, informative and entertaining - what’s not to like.😀
I had a 200W fitted about 6 weeks ago, 4 pipe, no zoning but ‘upgunned rads’ sized to cope with lower flow temperatures. Not had a need to use the heating yet and it was only on during the commissioning process. I also specified the constant flow IMI rad valves on all the rads.
I think a lot of uninformed customers will have a bit of difficulty accepting that a room stat is not required on this style of system or understand the concept of adjusting slope and level to achieve satisfactory room temperatures, or have the patience to ‘home in’ on the right settings while allowing sufficient time for the system to settle at the new equilibrium.
Was your customer on this job savvy as to what he wanted, or did you propose the ‘solution’ and did he grasp the concept of how to hit the sweet spot with the heating?
It was mostly customer driven and he is very happy to use this tech and experiment
@@UrbanPlumbers Sorry I forgot to ask, what was the calculated heat loss on the property, what size boiler did you select and did you range rate it?
@@UrbanPlumbers I'm also interested in the approx. heat loss of the property as it looks very well kept. I'm surprised the customer didn't ask for your thoughts on installing a 200-W before accepting your quote. It's literally the "deep end" of the Viessmann brand. We've installed over a dozen for clients where heat pumps are not feasible and every single install has been painful (I had one apprentice quit because of the complexity) But the end result is always worth it and the customers never have issues.
Hope you do more!
Sounds like you've got a great basic set up, and you're now ready to save another 30% of fuel with two more improvements:
1. Fit Honeywell Evohome so you can nail down times & temperatures in every room (or group of rooms) from a central control panel, while still being able to LOCALLY override any of the TRV's
2. Dump the automatic heating timer of your home, and use psychology rather hod loads more technology to meet the occupants' expectations of warmth; that is to say: Fit a count down timer like these ones:
Countdown Timer Sangamo or Timeguard
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Have to admit we used to install Viessmann for domestic/ commercial as we were Viessmann accredited engineers, hands down they were brilliant on weather comp and have been for decades. The only issue came when you fitted them for elderly the slope input from internal controls was basically ignored regardless of what you did and Viessmann technical were useless especially as the products on occasion would throw out fault codes that weren't even in the German manuals let alone the UK ones. Often it was better to phone John at Viessmann Direct even if you've been on the Viessmann courses.
The video at the end is sadly quite accurate even though it's satire. The set up you've used is what we often did for care homes with the Vitodens 300 and 333 control onwards - though do note if they have separate legionnaire checks from another company they will often write it up for not being at 65c 24/7.
I like that UFH system. I'm wondering what the best thing to do over a solid concrete floor is. We can fit a floor in the 50-80mm total depth range. Heat load is very low due to Enerphit retrofit (just the floor still to do) - I plan to use a 3kW GSHP at about 35C flow.
Another great video. I agree 100% with your comment that it's a premium product but has the worst instructions and technical back up.
I used to fit the 100 series as my first choice as a Viessmann approved installer but actually prefer other manufacturers now and as I no longer install only service, I find they don't have a great reputation when I speak to other heating engineers. I'm no fan of Worcester but they offer the best back up and have some of the best support and instructions in the industry. I've been to both companies on courses over the years but WB like them or not are always gonna be more popular in this country.
Imagine Viessmann boiler with Worcester back up. That would be a winner no one could touch.
Well isn't that just great 😯
Great video 👏👏👏👏
Have done Kimbo’s course and I’m converted 😂
Have got a Viessmann Vitovalor to fit in a couple of weeks
Done the training course which was very good 👍
Our area rep is also awol never returns phone calls or emails
Ordering the Vitovalor was hard work at first until I found the right person in their office and phone calls / emails
Their engineer is commissioning it so hope to pick up all the tips
Let you know how we get on with it 🤞
Got one to install myself soon. Good luck! :)
Yes 🤞 hoping the commissioning engineer knows his stuff
Looking forward to your video on your install
I’ve got rad circuit / UF circuit going to run it on weather comp no internal stats
Thanks
I hope Viessmann watch this video and read the comments. Maybe some feedback like this can improve and provide what is lacking.
The product is good, without question. It deserves good support and customer / installer back up.
You were surprisingly positive about Viessmann boilers Simon! BTW the Vitodens 100-W combi comes out of the box with Eco mode switched off. This means the boiler will pre-heat the heat exchanger frequently to give you fast hot water, even if nothing is calling for it for hours. Bit of a pain figuring out how to turn Eco mode back on (i.e. pre-heat off) since the setting disappears when the boiler is in OpenTherm mode. Viessmann support is on the case!
200 is quite amazing I must say
No other boilers come close on efficiency. Or frustration.
@@UrbanPlumbers model 200 can be considered art …
Viessmann has a solution for this
How does a person switch off eco -mode on the 100-W when in opentherm , I have this exact problem .
Love the vids, enjoying watching the newer heat pump ones. One question what was the underfloor system you put in.I love to put it in myself..
Hello, We just installed a 200W on heating circuit 1 with close tees and also had trouble with sensor location. We had success by programming it for one heating circuit on outdoor reset without mixing valve and WITHOUT LLH function and WITHOUT low loss header sensor. The boiler regulates it's on temperature. Also took some time and it's an "undocumented feature" but turns out to be simple enough. Tell it that LLH is "not available" and disconnect the sensor. You will have to re-commission.
Yes that was another thing we used to get no English instructions because the pickers had to remember to put then in with shipment. How did viessmann avoid getting gas council numbers? I guess it had broken down by then as was a through back to when British Gas was state owned and did the regulation side that CORGI took over at privatisation. I understand that all gas appliances had to have GC No. one of the requirements was £100k (1980's) worth of spare parts to be held in UK. Which actually makes a lot of sense...
Wish urban plumbers have branches all over the country. We need so much help at the moment with our boiler installation,Sadly we couldn't find a proper one until now😔,
Another fantastic production! Majority of it made my head hurt but great all the same.
Btw, what ufh is that?
Polypipe
Great video and really good to learn from thanks. Interested to the overlay underfloor heating system you used and would you be confident in using such a system where you did not know the insulation levels in a current concrete floor. Thanks
Definitely shy away from overlay in every case. If the floor has only standard Building Reg levels of thermal insulation under it, then it's designed to be 20ºC and is not suitable for heating up to 40ºC. Note that overlay insulation is only 2mm thick under the pipework !
I used to think I was a plumber, not so sure now
I don't have thermostat valves on all my rads, and the ones I do have them on are on max. Semi with a combi. Should I therefore turn my rads from max, and those without thermo valves down to reduce heat in rads for greater efficiency, by what you mentioned in the intro the video? Thanks
Very funny. Viessmann have had the strangest attitude from the day they started in uk.
I have not worked on any Viessmann boilers but many heatpumps maybe ten or so years ago. We used to call them pissmann if that answers your question. I do not know if they are better nowadays though.
Haha excellent
Just had a Viessmann 100-W combi fitted by Boiler Trust.... so far so good.... never had weather comp on boiler before ... interested to see whether will need to change heating curve when we get to winter... curently set at default 1.4 level 0 for victorian terraced.
Boiler trust are Brilliant. Any technical questions you can ever have they can answer for you.
Veismann labeled Grundfos pump failed after one and half years. No hot water for 5 days while the pump shipped. Covered by warrantee. Thankfully it happened in the spring,. No heat needed but, taking a shower involved heating water on the stove. Like your install a lot!
They say the new pump will not fail....we will see.
🤘😎🤘
Great video, really helpful👍
I could really do with knowing in a bit more detail what you did to achieve the blending just by using the flow & returns under the boiler?
Thanks
Do you have to fit high limit stat to underfloor manifold, I did some like this and had to fit high limit?
Hahaha, so funny Mein Fuhrer!, I bought a W100 to convert my two pipe system over to priority hot water, but guess what? The new boiler did not come with the 90 degree fittings for the hot water pipes, just stop caps. They wanted an extra €46 for them. After I lost my temper they handed them over for free! Someone in Germany is laughing at us!!
That makes sense 🤣
I had that a customer had the same problem found mixer tap body cracked feeding cold back into the cylinder
yes, it happens a lot with thermostatic shower valves as well
Odd priorities from the customer. Happy to splash the cash on flashy gear but not on stopping sewage getting back into the system. At least fit a Type DC device to cover yourself if an air break
is too obtrusive for the client.
Anyway, everyday is a learning day when watching your channel.
That part of work was not for me to decide. It was another company doing bathrooms so didn’t want to get too involved.
All I cared about is no mixing hot with cold. I did say what the regs were though.
Thanks for this video. The gas engineer installed the Viessmann 111w and the hot water on demand works great. However I'm unable to control the central heating. I can't turn it on, my ViCare app is confusing. There is a possibility of 2 heating circuits but I'm absolutely lost. Does it sound like I need to recommission the boiler?
I am not a plumber just a curious lay person so this may well be a silly question but when you say the boiler doesn’t know the room temperature and just replaces the building heat loss - surely the building heat loss is variable by more than just the weather? If those large bifold doors are open all evening for example or someone forgets and leaves a window open after a hot shower surely that throws the calculations off?
It's magic ! Leaving Windows open makes your house cold. German logic would just say don't be silly and close the door. It's complex to explain but so perfect and simple in application.
Flue height thing caught me out too.....🙄
We have 2 viessman boilers, bought in 2004 and still 🏃
I have Viessmann Vitodens 100-W B1HA/B1KA, Vitotrol 100 controller for 2 heat zones, one heat zone without mixer and one with mixer, OT control, they had to install extension kit and on mixer circuit they installed some sensor, probably the one you talked about. I must say that I am not impressed with the product because I almost never can get it work with two zones controller. The one with mixer circuit always prevail in control of heat, also on and off. So the other controller (with no mixer) can not have autonomous heat on and off, so in effect I don't have two heat zones. There is some TSP parameter which I have to set, TSP 0 on controller with mixer have to be set on 2, and the other one to 3. But rarely does this work. I don't know why. They replaced controller that could not operate autonomously and for one heating season it worked, but then stopped working. If I am resetting everything for an hour or two from scratch repeatedly both controllers, then sometimes I can get it work. But lately it seems that doesn't work anymore. Any suggestions what could be the main problem?
You need to hire a Viessmann expert as a consultant.
Where are you ?
nice video man as always, realistically by your estimation how does all this look on a customer's bills by comparison to a standard s plan setup?
Too many variables! But it is not unrealistic to expect between 10%-30% savings. Esepcially on this one, once we removed hot water mixing problem and insualted pipework around the hot water cylidner. Also modulation and PDHW must save at lest 10% overall.
The cheap boilers Viessmann make for the uk are only because the UK market won't pay for the good stuff.
The 200-W is not a cheap product. It's their best selling model in the fatherland.
Just had a new Viessmann W100 heat only boiler installed to my S plan system and not sure what the best flow temp should be to satisfy both HW and heating. The installers left the flow temp at 75 deg. C but I am only running HWS at the moment.
They installed W100 on S plan???!!! Get it converted to PDHW
I have the original Vitodens 200-w, Ive never managed to get the Weather comp working as no one could ever tell me what parts I needed to try it ...when my boiler stopped working A viesmann engineer came out but couldnt fix it...he didnt notice that the gas valve had failed, which I eventually found myself and replaced,....its ben ok generally, though right now the hot water is cooling and heating about every 5 mins, not sure what that is ?
I agree amazing kit and terrible service though it wasn't so bad when I knew and had met some of the tech guys. I have been back with Vaillant because their service is much better. They have been good on warranty and there is a depot 10 miles away so usually get a company engineer. Though my Vaillant at home is R2 with useless gas valve and ludicrous mass flow sensor. Both of which i swapped out but was still getting same fault codes but tech support stopped answering emails. However vrc700 controls are like bricks with tiny display and no where near as good as old vitotronic but can do similar stuff. I have vr68 solar thermal which is on bus with vrc700 but useless display with no information on home screen about hot water. I used to fit viessmann comfotrol next to resol dfa2 so people could see how much hit water was there and boost if necessary.
Sorry I went off Subject its just I keep toying with going back to viessmann but your comments put me off again.
nice video! why not wiessmann 222-f. ?